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View Full Version : Your feelings on Herman Edwards, head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs


Mr. Flopnuts
11-15-2007, 03:31 AM
I'll start with my own. I really like Herm and fully believe that he has the ability to take us all the way. He has a great eye for talent, and he knows how to get the best out of his players. For him to take the team that we had last year and get us in the playoffs was a feat of greatness. I think that if he had complete control of football operations we would be a Super Bowl contending team within 3 years. So as you can see I'm pretty high on the guy.

How about you? What are the pros, and the cons? Were you happy when we hired him? How about now? If you were going to replace him who would be your first reasonable choice?

elvomito
11-15-2007, 04:37 AM
i think he lets emotion cloud his judgement (croyle/huard, solari). he needs to be more business-like, more cutthroat, exacting.

i think he doesn't grow, adapt, or react to change very well. the whole thing about not being internet literate shows me he's not an active learner which is a big problem for me. furthermore, the lack of creativity/adaptation in the playoff loss was inexcusable.

he only excels in a few areas, therefore his assistant coaches must bring balance... most notably on the offensive side, which he knows far less about. instead of hiring a rookie to coordinate, he needed an all-pro.

to succeed, we need a strong GM making moves for the future, while Herm directs his delegates to utilize the weapons properly in the here-and-now.

with the amount of draft picks we have next year, we're lookin good in that regard. however, we likely will not see our offensive weapons used properly with the current coordinator if the past is any indication.
a business decision must be made in the offseason regarding solari. i think they'll justify keeping him longer, as we'll clearly be replenishing o-linemen.

MichaelH
11-15-2007, 05:52 AM
I feel better with him as head coach than Dick Vermeil. He knows what is needed on defense. But he needs to turn over complete offensive operations to a well qualified offensive minded coach. The Chiefs have always been unbalanced. They need to be good at offense, defense and special teams. As well all know, 13-3 and the best scoring offense gets you no farther than 13-3 and a top defense.

Guru
11-15-2007, 05:53 AM
I feel better with him as head coach than Dick Vermeil. He knows what is needed on defense. But he needs to turn over complete offensive operations to a well qualified offensive minded coach. The Chiefs have always been unbalanced. They need to be good at offense, defense and special teams. As well all know, 13-3 and the best scoring offense gets you no farther than 13-3 and a top defense.
Unless you are Baltimore.

Dave Lane
11-15-2007, 07:28 AM
I hope he gets fired tomorrow. No scratch that gets fired today. Herm is a curse worse than Marty ever was. I'd take Marty back. Or please Bill Cowher.

Dave

talastan
11-15-2007, 07:37 AM
honestly, I don't care.

I don't care how I feel, i don't care how you feel, and I really don't care how he feels.

I'm totally burnt out on the weepy, emotional mantra that has consumed pro football.

I don't care, just shut up and do your damn job.
:clap:
They're professionals for a reason..and the reason isn't to :deevee: :deevee:!!

King_Chief_Fan
11-15-2007, 07:47 AM
He is a guy who lives in the past. He continually reflects to his days as a player and his days at Tampa. What he knows is what he learned there and that is where it has stopped. This isn't the NFL of umpteen years ago. He is not with the program as a coach. I do agree he has an eye for talent. I think he would be better at Carl's job. He has proven without a shadow of a doubt how bad he is. Have you listened to this man's press conferences? He is dumbfounded confused and ignorant. He is in his 5th year as a coach and he is .500. Not near good enough. Gun was that good at got fired over the internet.

I think he is a great person but he is not a coach for the NFL today.

OnTheWarpath58
11-15-2007, 07:51 AM
Wow.

It only took 5 posts to have Bill Cowher mentioned.

Did I miss a meeting or something? Why do people think Cowher is a legitimate option?

He left one of the best jobs in the NFL to be closer to his family in Carolina.

Why would he come to KC, have to rebuild a team, and be even farther from his family?

Makes ZERO sense.

Count Alex's Wins
11-15-2007, 07:53 AM
Wow.

It only took 5 posts to have Bill Cowher mentioned.

Did I miss a meeting or something? Why do people think Cowher is a legitimate option?

He left one of the best jobs in the NFL to be closer to his family in Carolina.

Why would he come to KC, have to rebuild a team, and be even farther from his family?

Makes ZERO sense.

No no no no! Bill Cowher for HC and Trent Green for OC and QB coach too!!! Priest can retire and come back as RB coach as well! It will be AWESOME! And Herm can be defensive coordinator!

OnTheWarpath58
11-15-2007, 07:54 AM
No no no no! Bill Cowher for HC and Trent Green for OC and QB coach too!!! Priest can retire and come back as RB coach as well! It will be AWESOME! And Herm can be defensive coordinator!


LMAO

KCFalcon59
11-15-2007, 07:55 AM
In over his head.

Reerun_KC
11-15-2007, 08:13 AM
Your feelings on Herman Edwards, head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs?

All feelings left the minute he was announced as HeadCoach.

Counting down the games, days, seasons, drafts, or the leafs on the tree in the front yard, is he gone yet?

Simplex3
11-15-2007, 08:16 AM
I'd hire him in a second as head of player personnel and/or scouting.

I'd fire him in a second as head coach.

Nzoner
11-15-2007, 08:21 AM
I hated the decision as soon as it was announced and then last New Year's Eve in a must win game against the Jags our team came out and nothing but nothing was held back.A flea flicker for a td,a halfback option that almost worked etc.

Watching Herm's post game I heard him say it was do or die,he said all the right things and based on the game I had just witnessed I thought maybe the guy isn't all bad and then came the play-off game and it was as if the week before had been a dream,a dream too good to be true and so I found myself back where I had started,I hated the decision then and I hate it more now.

Arena football scores or not,it's the NFL of the 21st century and unfortunately Herm is a 20th century coach,

Rausch
11-15-2007, 08:23 AM
Wow.

It only took 5 posts to have Bill Cowher mentioned.

Did I miss a meeting or something? Why do people think Cowher is a legitimate option?

He left one of the best jobs in the NFL to be closer to his family in Carolina.

Why would he come to KC, have to rebuild a team, and be even farther from his family?

Makes ZERO sense.



He can sit out 2-3 years and be the hottest hire out there. He can ask for whatever he wants and likely get it.

Plus, he's a HC. It's what he does. Even Gibbs had to come back. Now, if CP is fired that's probably crossing out the reason that Cowher going here might happen. Of course $$$ speak the loudest...

Reerun_KC
11-15-2007, 08:23 AM
I hated the decision as soon as it was announced and then last New Year's Eve in a must win game against the Jags our team came out and nothing but nothing was held back.A flea flicker for a td,a halfback option that almost worked etc.

Watching Herm's post game I heard him say it was do or die,he said all the right things and based on the game I had just witnessed I thought maybe the guy isn't all bad and then came the play-off game and it was as if the week before had been a dream,a dream too good to be true and so I found myself back where I had started,I hated the decision then and I hate it more now.

Arena football scores or not,it's the NFL of the 21st century and unfortunately Herm is a 19th century coach,


20th century was a little to considerate.

Nzoner
11-15-2007, 08:27 AM
20th century was a little to considerate.

bada bing :D

Chiefnj2
11-15-2007, 08:29 AM
I hope Herm goes to the Broncos.

trndobrd
11-15-2007, 08:55 AM
I like that he can effectively evaluate talent and is willing to play younger players. I particularly like the defense he is building.

He needs an experienced offensive coordinator, more importantly, he needs to love the deep ball. It will be interesting in the coming weeks if Herm follow his mentor Tony Dungy and opens up now that he has a QB capable of throwing over 20 yards.

jjchieffan
11-15-2007, 09:24 AM
I personally think Herm is great at evaluating talent, and the Jury is still out on whether or not he knows how to first we need to fix the O-line. If he and Solari still cannot generate an offense, then changes need to be made. Carl, on the other hand, has had 19 years and needs to go now. Wouldn't it be something to see Carl go, and then a year or 2 later, see his last coaching hire win the SB?

Chiefnj2
11-15-2007, 09:39 AM
Where is the great evaluator of talent coming from?

Does this past draft look that good other than Bowe? Did his decisions regarding the OL in the offseason pan out?

HemiEd
11-15-2007, 09:42 AM
I think Herm is only exceeded in his stupidity by Gunther. He is not smart enough to compete and win in the current NFL.
Here are the facts, check the excuses at the door.
1) In less than two years, the vaunted Chiefs offense is now a laughing stock.
2) In his first year, he took a 10-6 team he inherited and hit the lottery at 9-7, getting a birth in the playoffs.
3) He was brain dead in the playoff game, totally embarrassing for any Chief fan.
4) He has improved the defense, by totally turning over the roster except for his best player which he inherited from the DV era.
5) His first draft, IS NOT, working out so well this year.
6) He has done a HORRIBLE job picking his assistants IMO.

jjchieffan
11-15-2007, 09:49 AM
Well, the defense has improved drastically since he has been here. If that wasn't due to his ability to evaluate talent, then I don't know how we did it.

Fish
11-15-2007, 09:49 AM
I've noticed that Herm's approval rating is in direct correlation to his W/L record. The weeks after a win, people warm up to him, but after a loss it's back to calling for his head. Two straight losses, and he's the worst coach in the world.

Seriously.... look at how closely his approval rating mirrors the outcome of the game.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/8034/picture1rc4.png

I bet if we did a thread exactly like this after every game, it would show the same trend....

The short-sightedness of some fans frustrates me.....

morphius
11-15-2007, 09:50 AM
I believe that he has a fairly good eye for talent, especially when looking at the D side of the ball. I don't believe he should have any input at all into an offensive scheme or game plan, and only being really good at 1/3 of the game will keep his teams from ever going very far. He still lives in the shadow of Marty, but lacks the GM who will take control away and open up the offense. Until he understands that while running the ball is great, that the rules have really changed to allow moving the ball through the air much easier.

Donger
11-15-2007, 09:50 AM
He's okay, he's okay. But, he does flustrate me a little.

Zouk
11-15-2007, 10:48 AM
Excellent track record.

Playoffs in 4 of 6 years, even though he's had Pennington, an end-of-the-road concussed Green, and Huard as his QBs.

His teams consistently are near the top of the league in fewest penalties and best turnover margin - signs of being well coached.

Every single player that has played for him over 7 years has liked and respected him, and has said that he got them motivated to play very hard.

His track record is similar to a pre-Manning Dungy or a pre-Brady Belichick, which tells me that if he ever gets a really good QB, he can bring us a Super Bowl.

Reerun_KC
11-15-2007, 10:52 AM
I've noticed that Herm's approval rating is in direct correlation to his W/L record. The weeks after a win, people warm up to him, but after a loss it's back to calling for his head. Two straight losses, and he's the worst coach in the world.

Seriously.... look at how closely his approval rating mirrors the outcome of the game.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/8034/picture1rc4.png

I bet if we did a thread exactly like this after every game, it would show the same trend....

The short-sightedness of some fans frustrates me.....


Thanks, but no Thanks, KC FISH.... Never ever should of been hired in the first place.

HemiEd
11-15-2007, 11:05 AM
Thanks, but no Thanks, KC FISH.... Never ever should of been hired in the first place.

We got Crap for at least two different 4th round picks.

kcfanXIII
11-15-2007, 11:07 AM
his eye for talent is good, ability to motivate players is good, defensively he has turned things around. while i agree that he is partially to blame, i think the decline of the offense has more to do with losing 2 HOF O-lineman, and the lack of a legitimate replacement at QB. then there is the solari factor, who reminds me of your buddies little brother who'll listen to 15 minutes of a conversation then spout off to his friends like he's an expert. herm needs to man up, and toss solari to the curb. i will never call for a coaches job until he's had 3 years to install his players, coaches, and philosophy. any less than 3 years and you become a dog chasing his tail, constantly cycling through coaches before their full effect on the team is judged.

that being said, his offensive smarts are a HUGE negative, and would not be opposed to him handing over control of the offense to a WELL QUALIFIED OC.

Wile_E_Coyote
11-15-2007, 11:08 AM
Like Gun needs a HC to hold his hand, Herm needs a GM to hold his. Maybe that's the way it should be. Not a big fan of Coach-GM

Skip Towne
11-15-2007, 11:14 AM
Two words: Peter Principled.

Fly O.T. McWall
11-15-2007, 11:20 AM
haven't read all the posts.. . but the bit about him being a great talent evaluator... not sure if it holds true. all ive heard is that he just trusts the scouts, unlike DV.

HemiEd
11-15-2007, 11:22 AM
Two words: Peter Principled.

For the whole staff.

Mr. Laz
11-15-2007, 11:25 AM
Herm = Marty

MahiMike
11-15-2007, 11:28 AM
This thread is hilarious!

Jilly
11-15-2007, 11:30 AM
I was happy when we hired him, because seeing him work at training camp in RF was invigorating. A few games into the season though, all that passion wasn't there anymore and I lost respect. I'm not a fan of a coach who can't take risks. And I think what did it the most for me, is he has continuously neglected to see the strengths in his players and played on those strengths. Instead, he expects his players to change to fit his mold.
Plus, every time I hear him talk, I'm reminded that he's just not all that bright.

xbarretx
11-15-2007, 11:32 AM
i like Herm. i do think hes got good eye for tallent and think he can and is putting KC on the road to more playoff births and wins.

i think sometimes his stubborn nature and willingness to be "fair" to players is and have costed us games. if a player isnt playing .. yank em.

i think he needs to stop standing up for Solari, but im not 100% doen with him yet as i want to see what he calls with Croyle at the helm.

i like the idea of giving CP the boot. a winning team will sell more tickets than a inconsistent one.

Herm should have the Chiefs looking very good starting next year (providing Croyle is the man)

fans curse our offense b/c its down right terrible. (make no mistake i do it too) but... i easily remember the years past when we could easily score 30+ points but never make a D stop and lose...

hes building out defense and that i like.

those are my random thoughts, ill let you know my real feelings after next year. you've got to give the guy some time to make things happen.

Reerun_KC
11-15-2007, 11:35 AM
This is like a bad nightmare... HOPEFULLY it will end soon...

Herm is costing the Chiefs fans and respect.

Herm = less exciting city about football....

HemiEd
11-15-2007, 11:40 AM
Herm < Marty

fyp

Bill Parcells
11-15-2007, 12:05 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/newyorkjets/hermkillslarry.jpg

Mr. Laz
11-15-2007, 12:06 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/newyorkjets/hermkillslarry.jpg
hehe .... finally broke down and posted it yourself after i didn't.


ROFL

Bill Parcells
11-15-2007, 12:07 PM
hehe .... finally broke down and posted it yourself after i didn't.


ROFL
I had to wait for the appropriate thread, and I just found it. :)

StcChief
11-15-2007, 12:48 PM
Too early to tell IMO. Will see how it works with Croyle and how he handles the Rookie QB.

Carl/Solari are the real problem.

How could they NOT see the OLine crumbling and really address it. oh because of bad drafts with DV... on the D side.

Chiefnj2
11-15-2007, 12:50 PM
My feelings about Herm are similar to the feelings of a certain Texan about the new god-damn 12oz size package of Jimmy Dean breakfast sausages.

Molitoth
11-15-2007, 12:54 PM
Herm needs at least 1 more year for anyone to want run him out. wtf

I blame the Huard start on Carl wanting "win now" philosophy.

Solari needs to be put back at o-line coach with a few new lineman.

Some vets who suck need to be cut.
The Chiefs are doing very well on Cap room, sign a damn good FA this season!

Manila-Chief
11-15-2007, 03:11 PM
I feel better with him as head coach than Dick Vermeil. He knows what is needed on defense. But he needs to turn over complete offensive operations to a well qualified offensive minded coach. The Chiefs have always been unbalanced. They need to be good at offense, defense and special teams. As well all know, 13-3 and the best scoring offense gets you no farther than 13-3 and a top defense.

I don't understand your logic. Why would you feel better with Herm? Yes, DV needed to turn all phases of the D over to his DC ... but he didn't, kept his finger in it and we missed a wonderful opportunity to go to the SB. Yes, I wanted him gone.

But, the same is true for Herm, he needs to turn all phases ... i.e. which player to keep/play/ playbook, calling the plays, talent, schemes, philosophy, etc. of to his OC. Kinda like Dungy did when he went to Indy ... he left the OC in charge of the O and the rest is history.

But, Herm is too stuborn. The first thing he did was tell us he was not changing a thng and then he changed the very philosophy of the O. Yes, you can tell me Herm lost his OL, Priest got hurt, etc., etc., ... but DV seem to be able to score points with whatever talent he had.

People are calling for Solari to be fired. But, how can we when he is not calling "his" plays in the DV way of offense, he is calling "Herm's" plays in Herm's philosophy.

1. I don't want to get rid of Herm until Kingless is fired. He will just bring in another clone.

2. No need to fire the OC. A new one would have to call the game Herm's way.

And, you may ask, Herm is head coach so why shouldn't he be able to determine his O? Bcause he sucks at it. I was okay with his hiring coz I though he would follow Dungy's lead, leave the O alone, come in install discipline/get the team in shape, and fix the D. Sure wish he had.

As someone above said, I wouldn't mind having Marty back. One thing about him ... he knows how to win during the season. I think eventually he will figure out how to win in the playoffs and win a SB. Or, in other words ... I don't see anyone who is better out there.

Chiefnj2
11-15-2007, 03:20 PM
I don't understand your logic. Why would you feel better with Herm? Yes, DV needed to turn all phases of the D over to his DC ... but he didn't, kept his finger in it and we missed a wonderful opportunity to go to the SB. Yes, I wanted him gone.
.

How can you say DV didn't turn all phases of the D over to his cooridnator? That's exactly what he did. GROB brought in his ex Denver players like Cadrez and guys like McCleon. Gun came aboard and said he could win with the current roster. The D was horrible and then Gun wanted and got his infamous "laundry list" of players - Surtain,Hall, Bell, Knight, etc.

Fruit Ninja
11-15-2007, 03:23 PM
I like Herm, i think he is ok. I wont judge his overall performance until after next year. he had to rebuild an aging offense. He turned the D around thats for damn sure.

I think what holds him back is his stubborness on offense. We should have went with Croyle a few games ago.

Anyways, he's ok.

Fish
11-15-2007, 04:05 PM
People are calling for Solari to be fired. But, how can we when he is not calling "his" plays in the DV way of offense, he is calling "Herm's" plays in Herm's philosophy.

You have a link showing that Solari isn't calling his own plays? Ohh... just pulling that out of your ass then huh?

Herm haters love to say that Herm is calling all the offensive plays, and he singlehandedly "dismantled" the offense, yet there is absolutely zero proof of either.

HemiEd
11-15-2007, 04:08 PM
You have a link showing that Solari isn't calling his own plays? Ohh... just pulling that out of your ass then huh?

Herm haters love to say that Herm is calling all the offensive plays, and he singlehandedly "dismantled" the offense, yet there is absolutely zero proof of either.

Sometimes, you have to connect the dots. Those dots are in a straight line, with consecutive numbers, and very close together.

Easy 6
11-15-2007, 04:12 PM
We have a LOT of work left to do.

But not NEARLY as much as we did when he took over, he's got another year & 1/2 to get it all done as far as i'm concerned.

Calcountry
11-15-2007, 04:48 PM
his eye for talent is good, ability to motivate players is good, defensively he has turned things around. while i agree that he is partially to blame, i think the decline of the offense has more to do with losing 2 HOF O-lineman, and the lack of a legitimate replacement at QB. then there is the solari factor, who reminds me of your buddies little brother who'll listen to 15 minutes of a conversation then spout off to his friends like he's an expert. herm needs to man up, and toss solari to the curb. i will never call for a coaches job until he's had 3 years to install his players, coaches, and philosophy. any less than 3 years and you become a dog chasing his tail, constantly cycling through coaches before their full effect on the team is judged.

that being said, his offensive smarts are a HUGE negative, and would not be opposed to him handing over control of the offense to a WELL QUALIFIED OC.IOW, you become the Raiders.

Manila-Chief
11-16-2007, 12:16 AM
You have a link showing that Solari isn't calling his own plays? Ohh... just pulling that out of your ass then huh?

Herm haters love to say that Herm is calling all the offensive plays, and he singlehandedly "dismantled" the offense, yet there is absolutely zero proof of either.

Alright, you who call people names without giving them a chance to reply to your question ... you show me where I said Herm calls the plays??? Notice the quotes around "his" and "Herm" ... if you don't know what those mean then take a course in writing. I've never even thought about Herm doing the actual play calling. Maybe I should give him credit for being smart enough to not try calling the plays .... (see, I could have said that in a negative manner).

As for link ... I don't have the time to look for a link (they are out there ... as HemiEd said, "connect the dots....")... but last year it was reported in the K. C. Star ... Trent said there was a change in philosophy on offense ... Huard reported it ... and Herm himself talked about not scoring to quickly and ball control and the offense helping the defense.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-16-2007, 12:25 AM
I've started too many threads so I'll just add a new question here. For those of you who prefer Marty would you be willing to bring him back and "let him shop for the groceries"? I think that's the only way he'd agree to it.

MadMax
11-16-2007, 12:28 AM
I've started too many threads so I'll just add a new question here. For those of you who prefer Marty would you be willing to bring him back and "let him shop for the groceries"? I think that's the only way he'd agree to it.



Does he have food stamps??? Actually if it meant Carl woulld be gone the hell yes.... :) BTW I don't dislike Herm, I figure he needs a lil more time.. Course ive been wrong many times too. Let him draft this next draft and if we aren't on the right path everyone here will let us know :)

alanm
11-16-2007, 02:26 AM
Wow.

It only took 5 posts to have Bill Cowher mentioned.

Did I miss a meeting or something? Why do people think Cowher is a legitimate option?

He left one of the best jobs in the NFL to be closer to his family in Carolina.

Why would he come to KC, have to rebuild a team, and be even farther from his family?

Makes ZERO sense.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Manila-Chief
11-16-2007, 10:54 AM
Does he have food stamps??? Actually if it meant Carl woulld be gone the hell yes.... :) BTW I don't dislike Herm, I figure he needs a lil more time.. Course ive been wrong many times too. Let him draft this next draft and if we aren't on the right path everyone here will let us know :)

HEH!!! @ "food stamps"

I agree if buying groc. means Kingless' departure. But, no! I think you need a very skilful GM who works with the coach. Certainly the coach should have major in put ... in fact I have to give CP credit for working with his HC ... only problem he makes dumb decision when he secures the type of players the coach wants. On D Herm seems to be selecting good players.

BTW, not only do I not hate Herm ... I like the guy. I like his faith ... I like his morals (the fact he refused to go on a certain sports show coz of the name of it), I like his demeanor, his approach to life, the way he relates to his players and gets them to play, etc. But, IMHO he does not have the ability/skills/philosophy to lead a team to win a world championship. I sincerely hope he does. I'd like nothing better than for a guy like him to be rewarded with success. I just don't see it happening. I've waited too many years for us to even go back to the SB and desire for us to get a coach that gives us a chance of taking us there.

Also,BTW, I'm not on the bandwagon to "Bring Back Marty" ... just said I'd be okay with it ... he is an excellent regular season coach ... and just maybe he will learn to win in the playoffs???

Surely there is a young Bill Walsh, Belichick, Landry, Lombardi, Chuck Noll, Hank Stram, etc. out there somewhere for us? How about Pete Carroll? I mention him because he might follow the Belichick model ... I mean ... struck out his first time around coaching but learned from it and now we all hate him coz he is so good. Could Pete do the same thing???

Now, I believe (not think) Herm will finish his contract so I hope, just maybe the struggle the team is going through on offense he is experiencing now will cause him to reexamine his O philosophy and open things up and/or turn it over to someone qualified. I don't think it will happen so I wish for a house cleaning.

Reerun_KC
11-16-2007, 10:56 AM
What about Jason Garrett the OC of Dallas?

Fish
11-16-2007, 11:20 AM
Alright, you who call people names without giving them a chance to reply to your question ... you show me where I said Herm calls the plays??? Notice the quotes around "his" and "Herm" ... if you don't know what those mean then take a course in writing. I've never even thought about Herm doing the actual play calling. Maybe I should give him credit for being smart enough to not try calling the plays .... (see, I could have said that in a negative manner).

As for link ... I don't have the time to look for a link (they are out there ... as HemiEd said, "connect the dots....")... but last year it was reported in the K. C. Star ... Trent said there was a change in philosophy on offense ... Huard reported it ... and Herm himself talked about not scoring to quickly and ball control and the offense helping the defense.

Well I thought that this quote just about covered your thoughts on who was calling the plays: he is not calling "his" plays in the DV way of offense, he is calling "Herm's" plays in Herm's philosophy

But from your reply I guess since you put quotes around choice words, you didn't really mean what you typed... ? OK.. First time I've heard of such a thing. I did notice the quotes. Are you sure you understand the usage of quotations? Were you intending different context? Maybe my courses in writing were all wrong?

Anyway, if you didn't intend to convey that Herm is calling the plays instead of Solari, then it doesn't really matter. Your second paragraph still indicates that you do feel that way...

Manila-Chief
11-16-2007, 11:38 AM
What about Jason Garrett the OC of Dallas?

Yep ... He may be the next winner. He certainly seems to be handling the Cowgirls O very well. And, he could still be there the next time we need a coach???

RedThat
11-16-2007, 11:56 AM
I don't like his philosophy. He coaches too conservative. His mindest seems like he plays not to lose, instead of playing to win. He makes questionable decisions late in games. Not the greatest tactician or strategist I should say. He does get outcoached a lot.

I am not a big fan of cover 2, I mean I don't mind if we use it, it's great when you don't want to give up the big play, but, we use it too often. I think cover 2 is a perfect scheme to run late in games when your team is winning 31-10 or something. I think he needs to mix it up a bit on defense and become a little more of an aggresive attacking style defense.

It's clear that scheme is a pass defensive scheme. There are times when the scheme is exposed, i.e, stopping the run.

We all know offense is his biggest weakness. He does a terrible job of managing his personnel period. He doesn't utilize his players strengths to their advantage. He runs an offensive scheme according to the way he wants things run instead of working to the players strengths and designing an offensive scheme or plays that should be built on what our players do best.

He's too predictable. when defenses expect the run, he'll run. When they expect pass, he'll pass. when it should be the opposite. That is the only way he will help the offensive line is by counterpunching back at the opposition, and doing the opposite of what they expect from you.

A lot of times I find, he doesn't give his team a chance. And that's part of playing conservative. We dont take shots down the field well enough. We're always utilizing the short part of the field. And other teams know that. Another big problem I find is we don't spread the ball around enough. Again, that is Herm not managing his personnel well enough on offense. Herm has a problem, he's too close minded. His mind is too fixated on on this ball control style of offense he wants to run.

*I don't think he is fit to be a head coach. If you're a head coach in the national football league and you can't do these things, then you shouldn't be a head coach.

Manila-Chief
11-16-2007, 11:57 AM
KC Fish, are you trying to tell us that Mike Solari has the freedom to call any/all plays he wishes at any point in the game? Of course he can't. He has to call plays that fit within Herm's philosophy. How can one judge Solari's ability as an OC if he doesn't have the freedom to run it his way. That's all I'm saying. I'll agree with you in that for his philosophy Herm should have choose another OC. And, I'd not be unhappy if Herm replaces Mike at the end of the season.

I liked the DV offense. But, you have to accept the fact that turn overs will happen. Under DV it was okay coz the offense scored many more TD's than interceptions. It seems our O is in a black hole ... neither DV's nor Marty's.

Fish
11-16-2007, 12:34 PM
KC Fish, are you trying to tell us that Mike Solari has the freedom to call any/all plays he wishes at any point in the game? Of course he can't. He has to call plays that fit within Herm's philosophy. How can one judge Solari's ability as an OC if he doesn't have the freedom to run it his way. That's all I'm saying. I'll agree with you in that for his philosophy Herm should have choose another OC. And, I'd not be unhappy if Herm replaces Mike at the end of the season.

I liked the DV offense. But, you have to accept the fact that turn overs will happen. Under DV it was okay coz the offense scored many more TD's than interceptions. It seems our O is in a black hole ... neither DV's nor Marty's.


We tried running the same offense that DV did. But it didn't work. We still tried(and kept trying for too long IMO). Many people don't realize that we tried to run the same offense, but we couldn't run the same offense because the personnel we have now won't let us run it effectively. So instead of continuing to fail trying to run that offense, the playbook is simplified. Not because Herm neutered it, but because it continued to fail.

You can't just run the DV offense because you want to. It doesn't work that way. You have to have the pieces in place to do it. We don't have those pieces anymore. If we would have done a better job of drafting young replacements, we might have had the pieces to fill the holes better, but we didn't.

Our O is in a black hole.... but the blame is not Herm's. IMO, if anything he deserves blame for not making more changes sooner.

MOhillbilly
11-16-2007, 12:37 PM
i like herm,and the style of football he plays. he just doesnt have the jimmy and joes on O.

Chiefnj2
11-16-2007, 12:41 PM
Our O is in a black hole.... but the blame is not Herm's. IMO, if anything he deserves blame for not making more changes sooner.


How is the blame not partly Herms? He's been the coach for two years now. It was painfully obvious to everyone 3 years ago that the OL was on its last leg. Wasn't it Herm who decided he didn't need T Rich and went with Wilson and Grigsby instead? Wasn't it Herm who brought back Welbourn? Herm who brought in Turley (twice)? Herm who brought in Terry?

Manila-Chief
11-16-2007, 12:58 PM
Chiefnj2 ... you are correct ... if Herm is suppose to be such a great talent evaluator then why is our offensive personnel not better? But, just another possible side of it ... did he have much of a choice ... I mean Kingless dictated that Huard would start the season so the team could better make more money and he (CP) could look good. Herm may have had to play the players Kingless provided him???? But, I do agree with you that Herm has not used them to well.

Why are these coaches so stubborn? DV seemed to be against the D. No, Herm is not against the O but he has not yet brought in someone who could turn it around. One would think he would learn from his mentor in Indy ... but, not yet.

Wasn't that Gun's problem as a HC? He brought in these tall rangy WR that gave his D fits ... and thought that was the way to do an O ... the only problem, with his D mind he was not equipped to run an O.... if he had brought in someone like Indy's OC then he many not have needed to read the internet.

Reerun_KC
11-16-2007, 01:03 PM
Yep ... He may be the next winner. He certainly seems to be handling the Cowgirls O very well. And, he could still be there the next time we need a coach???


My thoughts his he is young enough to build and grow a young team around. He seems logical and smart enough to bring in a solid coaching staff and allow them to build their respected sides of the ball. I can see hiring a very solid well known DC and him spending more time on the OC side of the ball..

But with current crap at the management level, no way will he be allowed to come in and show up Carl and Co...

so like Sean Peyton, it is nothing but a pipe dream.

Chiefnj2
11-16-2007, 01:04 PM
Chiefnj2 ... you are correct ... if Herm is suppose to be such a great talent evaluator then why is our offensive personnel not better? But, just another possible side of it ... did he have much of a choice ... I mean Kingless dictated that Huard would start the season so the team could better make more money and he (CP) could look good. Herm may have had to play the players Kingless provided him???? But, I do agree with you that Herm has not used them to well.

Why are these coaches so stubborn? DV seemed to be against the D. No, Herm is not against the O but he has not yet brought in someone who could turn it around. One would think he would learn from his mentor in Indy ... but, not yet.

Wasn't that Gun's problem as a HC? He brought in these tall rangy WR that gave his D fits ... and thought that was the way to do an O ... the only problem, with his D mind he was not equipped to run an O.... if he had brought in someone like Indy's OC then he many not have needed to read the internet.

I disagree with several of your statements. I don't agree that the King dictated that Huard start. Herm hates turnovers. Herm is an uber-conservative coach. IMO, Herm went with the safer choice.

"DV seemed to be against the D". Again I disagree. DV let his DC's pick and choose his players. DV used more day 1 draft picks on defense than on offense (Sims, Siavii, Downing, Freeman, DJ, Fox, Mitchell, Battle, etc.)

DJ_is_the_realdeal
11-16-2007, 01:08 PM
I like Herm. Its funny how everyone blames him for the situation we find our Chiefs in. But the person to blame is Dick Vermeil. He let this team get old on offense and his drafts sucked. No one can doubt Herm's eye for talent. Look at the past two drafts. Its amazing! Herm did something that Dick couldn't, get a top-notch WR in KC. He cannot fix all our problems in one day. I like the direction this team is going. If I had one flaw to give him is he has that blind loyalty that Vermeil had. Other than that I like the guy. It could be worse we could have Norv Turner!

kcirnamffoh
11-16-2007, 01:18 PM
... Wasn't that Gun's problem as a HC? He brought in these tall rangy WR that gave his D fits ... and thought that was the way to do an O ... the only problem, with his D mind he was not equipped to run an O.... if he had brought in someone like Indy's OC then he many not have needed to read the internet.

Man, you need to get a clue. Cunningham's offense was 4th in rushing one year and 4th in passing the other. I think overall they were like 11th in the NFL over his two seasons. Vermeil took over an offense that was ready to grow. If Cunningham was given his third year he could have started boning up the defensive side, but whiny Chiefs' fans would have had a major breakdown and Carl 'the King Pimp' Peterson couldn't have brought in his croonies.

IMO, Edwards needs another two seasons to prove himself. He has turned around the defense. It still needs work (secondary mostly) and the next two seasons should define his capabilities to mount a good balanced attack on offense.

One thing I see that I'm not sure I like about Edwards. Vermeil was great at this and I believe that got him results. In public Edwards puts too much on to the players and not enough on the coaches. Vermeil was always saying, "we've got to coach better". I never hear words of humility out of Edwards like that. I think players like to hear that and might play harder for it. I think Edwards comes across as a little too cocky sometimes and doesn't seem to think he could be part of the problem.
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Fish
11-16-2007, 01:54 PM
How is the blame not partly Herms? He's been the coach for two years now. It was painfully obvious to everyone 3 years ago that the OL was on its last leg. Wasn't it Herm who decided he didn't need T Rich and went with Wilson and Grigsby instead? Wasn't it Herm who brought back Welbourn? Herm who brought in Turley (twice)? Herm who brought in Terry?

You answered your own question. It was painfully obvious 3 years ago, but yet there were very few young linemen with any potential on the roster because Vermiel didn't place enough importance in that. When Herm arrived, he still had Roaf and Shields. Roaf bailed right before the season when he'd been saying the whole time that he would play. And that was after he talked Shields into giving another run at it. And it was too late to find anyone even close to filling the huge talent gap that Roaf left. Roaf was a gigantic piece in the "DV offense", and it should be clear now that the DV offense can't be effective without that type of dominant LT on the line.

I'm not saying Herm doesn't deserve part of the blame. He does. There should have been more effort to replenish the OL right away. But Herm's #1 priority upon arrival was to bolster the defense. That was the glaring need at the time. He can't fix both sides at once.

I don't blame Herm for letting T Rich go. It was painful, but it was necessary.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-16-2007, 02:52 PM
HEH!!! @ "food stamps"

I agree if buying groc. means Kingless' departure. But, no! I think you need a very skilful GM who works with the coach. Certainly the coach should have major in put ... in fact I have to give CP credit for working with his HC ... only problem he makes dumb decision when he secures the type of players the coach wants. On D Herm seems to be selecting good players.

BTW, not only do I not hate Herm ... I like the guy. I like his faith ... I like his morals (the fact he refused to go on a certain sports show coz of the name of it), I like his demeanor, his approach to life, the way he relates to his players and gets them to play, etc. But, IMHO he does not have the ability/skills/philosophy to lead a team to win a world championship. I sincerely hope he does. I'd like nothing better than for a guy like him to be rewarded with success. I just don't see it happening. I've waited too many years for us to even go back to the SB and desire for us to get a coach that gives us a chance of taking us there.

Also,BTW, I'm not on the bandwagon to "Bring Back Marty" ... just said I'd be okay with it ... he is an excellent regular season coach ... and just maybe he will learn to win in the playoffs???

Surely there is a young Bill Walsh, Belichick, Landry, Lombardi, Chuck Noll, Hank Stram, etc. out there somewhere for us? How about Pete Carroll? I mention him because he might follow the Belichick model ... I mean ... struck out his first time around coaching but learned from it and now we all hate him coz he is so good. Could Pete do the same thing???

Now, I believe (not think) Herm will finish his contract so I hope, just maybe the struggle the team is going through on offense he is experiencing now will cause him to reexamine his O philosophy and open things up and/or turn it over to someone qualified. I don't think it will happen so I wish for a house cleaning.




I like Herm and I disagree with this post, but it's still a great post with solid logic. Thanks for your input. I think Herm can get it done without interference. I do agree that he needs a SOLID OC to help him accomplish his goals ala Tony Dungy.