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View Full Version : Does OU's loss help or hurt KU and MU's chances?


Chiefs Pantalones
11-17-2007, 11:43 PM
The talking heads on the radio were talking like OU's loss hurts both KU and MU's chances at the BCS title game even if both win out.

They were talking up Ohio State and other media darling teams.

Mr. Arrowhead
11-17-2007, 11:44 PM
Honestly if KU wins out, they should go, no if and or buts.

irishjayhawk
11-17-2007, 11:45 PM
KU is in the drivers seat.

Personally, I would have liked MU and OU to win out regardless if they beat us. It'd be a better game and more meaningful.

beer bacon
11-17-2007, 11:46 PM
It doesn't change anything. Win out and your in.

Chiefs Pantalones
11-17-2007, 11:48 PM
I know we'll get in if we win out. The media just pisses me off though. "Ohio State is alive thanks to OU losing." yada yada

Mr. Flopnuts
11-17-2007, 11:48 PM
No effect at all. It only hurt OU's chances.

Reerun_KC
11-17-2007, 11:48 PM
It might Hurt MU's chances more, but if KU wins out they are in...

But if MU beats KU then drops to OU agian, it will be crushing to the whole conference...

MU has to win out to keep KU in contention for a BCS bid if they beat KU, which is good for both schools....

KC_Connection
11-17-2007, 11:50 PM
How would it hurt either of them? If either of them wins the next 2, they are in.

KC_Connection
11-17-2007, 11:51 PM
Also...this gives KU a pretty good chance at a BCS bowl if they happen to lose next Saturday.

Chiefs Pantalones
11-17-2007, 11:53 PM
Do we still play OU in the big 12 championship even though they lost tonight?

Reerun_KC
11-17-2007, 11:54 PM
Do we still play OU in the big 12 championship even though they lost tonight?

if they win bedlam then yes. They own the tie breaker over Texas...

But with Bradford rung, OSU has a shot....

then Texas would be in the game...

Chiefs Pantalones
11-17-2007, 11:59 PM
if they win bedlam then yes. They own the tie breaker over Texas...

But with Bradford rung, OSU has a shot....

then Texas would be in the game...

Should we want to play OU or Texas? Hopefully OU, IMO.

Reerun_KC
11-18-2007, 12:14 AM
Should we want to play OU or Texas? Hopefully OU, IMO.
Must survive MU first...

I cant even think that far... MU is solid, very solid...

This game is going to be one for the ages....

I think KU/MU could beat either one right now...

beer bacon
11-18-2007, 12:16 AM
Should we want to play OU or Texas? Hopefully OU, IMO.

I want to play Texas. I am sick of all the Texas to a BCS Bowl talk. They are severely overrated this season.

cdcox
11-18-2007, 12:25 AM
Oh, I definitely think it hurt MU's chances, but not Kansas'. That undefeated record will carry them if they win out.

Reerun_KC
11-18-2007, 12:26 AM
Oh, I definitely think it hurt MU's chances, but not Kansas'. That undefeated record will carry them if they win out.

my thoughts as well

See post #7

chiefsfan987
11-18-2007, 03:29 AM
if they win bedlam then yes. They own the tie breaker over Texas...

But with Bradford rung, OSU has a shot....

then Texas would be in the game...

Unless Texas lays an egg against A&M. If its a three-way tie at 5-3 in the south OU still goes.

BWillie
11-18-2007, 03:57 AM
I'd pay money to pay Texas instead of Oklahoma. Texas isn't much better than Oklahoma State this year. The most overrated team in the Big 12 this year.

beavis
11-18-2007, 04:34 AM
Oh, I definitely think it hurt MU's chances, but not Kansas'. That undefeated record will carry them if they win out.
How, exactly? Either one of us still has to win out.

gacoltdog
11-18-2007, 06:40 AM
How, exactly? Either one of us still has to win out.

If OU had won and you beat them in the Big 12 championship it would have been the #2 team, thus more impressive. If West Virginia beats Uconn, they might still be ranked higher than Missouri, and may keep that position. KU winning out will be automatic. LSU still has to play Tennessee or Georgia in SEC championship game, and they could lose. Missouri winning out should DEFINATELY be ahead of O$U. They should be ahead of West Virginia, but you never know. Stupid BCS and East Coast bias to deal with. I moved to Georgia from Colorado 2 years ago and am still a Big 12 fan. Big 12>Big East!

It was great seeing Missouri and Kansas, and even Okie State, kicking the red out of Nebraska!! :drool: :evil: Now CU needs to also stampede them.

Spott
11-18-2007, 06:41 AM
I'd pay money to pay Texas instead of Oklahoma. Texas isn't much better than Oklahoma State this year. The most overrated team in the Big 12 this year.


Texas is worse than OU, but that game would almost be a home game for them.

Bob Dole
11-18-2007, 07:35 AM
Oh, I definitely think it hurt MU's chances, but not Kansas'. That undefeated record will carry them if they win out.

But, but, but Mizzou didn't need anyone's help to get a trip to the National Championship! :rolleyes:

Cochise
11-18-2007, 07:42 AM
But, but, but Mizzou didn't need anyone's help to get a trip to the National Championship! :rolleyes:

Our one loss, which came to what was until today the #3 team in the country, now makes us looks terrible.

However, their opponents' record of 36-70 still doesn't matter.

Bob Dole
11-18-2007, 07:50 AM
Our one loss, which came to what was until today the #3 team in the country, now makes us looks terrible.

However, their opponents' record of 36-70 still doesn't matter.

Perception is reality. And exactly the reason Bob Dole has been arguing for the past week that Mizzou does NOT control its own destiny, while KU does.

Simply Red
11-18-2007, 08:00 AM
Honestly if KU wins out, they should go, no if and or buts.
That's what Auburn thought three years ago. ;) Don't get me wrong, I'd love for MU or KU to have a shot at BCS title.

beavis
11-18-2007, 08:12 AM
If OU had won and you beat them in the Big 12 championship it would have been the #2 team, thus more impressive. If West Virginia beats Uconn, they might still be ranked higher than Missouri, and may keep that position. KU winning out will be automatic. LSU still has to play Tennessee or Georgia in SEC championship game, and they could lose. Missouri winning out should DEFINATELY be ahead of O$U. They should be ahead of West Virginia, but you never know. Stupid BCS and East Coast bias to deal with. I moved to Georgia from Colorado 2 years ago and am still a Big 12 fan. Big 12>Big East!

It was great seeing Missouri and Kansas, and even Okie State, kicking the red out of Nebraska!! :drool: :evil: Now CU needs to also stampede them.
I guess I'm taking too simple of an approach, in that if Mizzou wins out, we'd have to beat KU, which is ranked ahead of us, and OU, which will be ranked just below us. I don't see how any of the other teams involved could come close to that. Granted, this is all IF Mizzou wins out, and I'm not taking that for granted by any means.

the Talking Can
11-18-2007, 08:13 AM
If OU had won and you beat them in the Big 12 championship it would have been the #2 team, thus more impressive. If West Virginia beats Uconn, they might still be ranked higher than Missouri, and may keep that position. KU winning out will be automatic. LSU still has to play Tennessee or Georgia in SEC championship game, and they could lose. Missouri winning out should DEFINATELY be ahead of O$U. They should be ahead of West Virginia, but you never know. Stupid BCS and East Coast bias to deal with.

this is pretty much correct

cdcox
11-18-2007, 08:44 AM
I guess I'm taking too simple of an approach, in that if Mizzou wins out, we'd have to beat KU, which is ranked ahead of us, and OU, which will be ranked just below us. I don't see how any of the other teams involved could come close to that. Granted, this is all IF Mizzou wins out, and I'm not taking that for granted by any means.

The perceived strength of the Big 12 in the voters mind and the computer programs rests with them having 3 elite teams. But this is an artifact, since there has been only one game played between the three teams. If OU, MU, and KU had all played each other one of two things would have happened: 1) one team would have dominated the other two; then that team would be elite and the others would not. Or 2) the three teams would have beat up on each other and they'd all be ranked outside the top 5.

But OU's loss to Texas Tech made the situation worse. OU can no longer be considered elite. MU's loss to OU is no longer a loss to an elite team. If one of the 3 elite teams in the Big 12 was shown to be suspect, it hurts the other two as well. If Kansas stays undefeated there won't be enough evidence to confirm the doubt that everyone already has. Missouri is a different story through. Beating KU looks good, but not great, because people have doubts about KU. Beating OU would give them 3 losses and it won't make people sit up and say "Wow, MU is for real." In order for MU to get their ticket punched for the NC game, their victory over OU had to look like it was over an elite team.

I'm not saying OSU or WVU will definitely pass MU, but the door is open.

SCTrojan
11-18-2007, 09:18 AM
I don't think it hurt KU's chances very much - win out and they are in. IMO it would have played out that way even before Oregon lost.

Like others have said, it hurts MU somewhat in that if they win out it now brings teams like West Virginia, Ohio State and maybe even Arizona State into the conversation. If OU had come into a Mizzou Big 12 championship game with only one loss, then the winner would have been in. Not necessarily so now, IMO.

I've always thought that as long as KU, MU and OU kept winning until they played each other, that the round-robin winner would go to the championship game. It would have been fun to watch - unfortunately OU didn't keep their end of the bargain.

CoMoChief
11-18-2007, 09:22 AM
This loss hurt if anything, but MU and KU would both have to win out if either team was thinking of playing in the national championship. Now obviously only one of them can go, but the situation is the same for both teams.

beer bacon
11-18-2007, 09:28 AM
There is no way Mizzou doesn't get the MNC if they win out. In the next two weeks MU plays a top five team and a top ten team. OSU is done until its bowl, and WVU plays U-Conn and Pitt.

It is silly to think MU might not get the MNC even if they win out.

Bob Dole
11-18-2007, 09:40 AM
It is silly to think MU might not get the MNC even if they win out.

It's also silly to think someone could lose track of downs and give a team 5 shots at the endzone.

SCTrojan
11-18-2007, 09:41 AM
There is no way Mizzou doesn't get the MNC if they win out. In the next two weeks MU plays a top five team and a top ten team. OSU is done until its bowl, and WVU plays U-Conn and Pitt.

It is silly to think MU might not get the MNC even if they win out.

I agree that if either KU or MU win out that they should be in the championship game.

In light of OU's loss, I just don't think it's realistic to say that there is absolutely no possibility of someone else getting in if MU wins out. It's just the nature of how things work in this system.

Just to be clear, if either MU or KU win out and don't get into the championship game, I'll be as outraged as anyone else on this board.

DaKCMan AP
11-18-2007, 09:41 AM
The way I see it:

If LSU wins out, they're in.

If KU or MU wins out, they're in.

If LSU loses or if OU wins the Big XII Champ game and WVU wins out, they're in.

If LSU loses and WVU loses, if ASU wins (beats USC & AZ) out they'll jump OSU and they're in.

If LSU loses, WVU loses, and ASU loses then OSU is in.

The only way MU or KU don't make it is if OU wins the Big XII champ, IMO.

The only way OSU can make it is for three of the following to occur: OU to win the Big XII Champ, LSU loses SEC Champ, WVU loses or ASU loses.

morphius
11-18-2007, 09:43 AM
It obviously hurts MU more then KU, as MU lost to them earlier in the year. Plus if OU loses again without their QB next week MU could lose their chance to redeem their single loss. Especially if they beat KU badly, because KU will drop hard with a single loss because of their competition for the year.

beer bacon
11-18-2007, 09:43 AM
It's also silly to think someone could lose track of downs and give a team 5 shots at the endzone.

That is true, but that isn't the type of argument people are making in regards to MU winning out and not going to the MNC. Some people seem to think their are legitimate scenarios where MU ends the season beating top five and top 10 teams and doesn't go. There aren't.

If we are talking fifth down levels of foolish, there would need to be some type of nation-wide amnesia where all the voters and computers forget that MU won the Big 12 championship.

DaKCMan AP
11-18-2007, 09:59 AM
If we are talking fifth down levels of foolish, there would need to be some type of nation-wide amnesia where all the voters and computers forget that MU won the Big 12 championship.

While I think that if KU or MU wins out, they're in, there will be people arguing that ASU won the Pac-10, OSU won the Big-10 and WVU won the Big East, all with 1 loss.

ASU, IMO, has the most legit loss to Oregon with Dixon and their biggest win will be (assuming) next week against USC. MU would have the most legit win out of all of those teams beating KU and redeeming a loss to OU. OSU, IMO, doesn't really have any quality wins. WVU is kind of in the same boat as OSU only beating Cincy & (assuming) UConn.

beer bacon
11-18-2007, 10:02 AM
While I think that if KU or MU wins out, they're in, there will be people arguing that ASU won the Pac-10, OSU won the Big-10 and WVU won the Big East, all with 1 loss.

ASU, IMO, has the most legit loss to Oregon with Dixon and their biggest win will be (assuming) next week against USC. MU would have the most legit win out of all of those teams beating KU and redeeming a loss to OU. OSU, IMO, doesn't really have any quality wins. WVU is kind of in the same boat as OSU only beating Cincy & (assuming) UConn.

It isn't winning the conference that is so important for MU, it is the two wins against high ranking teams in the last two weeks. No other one loss team would have that, and it would put some distance between MU and those other one loss teams.

DaKCMan AP
11-18-2007, 10:02 AM
It isn't winning the conference that is so important for MU, it is the two wins against high ranking teams in the last two weeks. No other one loss team would have that, and it would put some distance between MU and those other one loss teams.

Understand and agree.

NUMBER7
11-18-2007, 10:06 AM
It isn't winning the conference that is so important for MU, it is the two wins against high ranking teams in the last two weeks. No other one loss team would have that, and it would put some distance between MU and those other one loss teams.

Nice theory...may not hold water with voters based on Sagarin.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm

beavis
11-18-2007, 10:14 AM
The way I see it:

If LSU wins out, they're in.

If KU or MU wins out, they're in.

If LSU loses or if OU wins the Big XII Champ game and WVU wins out, they're in.

If LSU loses and WVU loses, if ASU wins (beats USC & AZ) out they'll jump OSU and they're in.

If LSU loses, WVU loses, and ASU loses then OSU is in.

The only way MU or KU don't make it is if OU wins the Big XII champ, IMO.

The only way OSU can make it is for three of the following to occur: OU to win the Big XII Champ, LSU loses SEC Champ, WVU loses or ASU loses.
You are correct sir.

Mr. Laz
11-18-2007, 10:18 AM
doesn't effect KU's chances at all ...... they win out and they are in.


Hurts Mizzou though, with 1 loss they still need perception. Oklahoma is now a lesser victory that it would of been before.

West Virginia could sneak by Mizzou even if it wins out.

"could" ..... i didn't say they "would"

beer bacon
11-18-2007, 11:09 AM
The one loss teams left that have a shot at the MNC are LSU, MU, WV, and Ohio State.

It is a given that LSU is in the MNC if they win out. It looks like West Virginia will be barely ahead of MU in the BCS when the new poll comes out. Ohio State and ASU will still be behind WVU and MU in the BCS.

West Virginia has U-Conn and a bad Pitt team left on their schedule.

Ohio State has no games left. They are really screwed, unless all these other one loss teams start losing.

ASU has two home games against a good USC team and an average Arizona team.

Missouri has @ KU and OU/UT on a neutral field left. For those keeping score at home, that one game against the #2 BCS team and another game against a team that at worst is top 15, but will probably be top ten. Win and your in. No other one loss team is getting the opportunity to boost their ranking like MU.

cdcox
11-18-2007, 11:45 AM
WVU was already ahead of Missouri in the human polls. The OU loss will hurt Mizzou in the computer polls and probably the human polls for that matter.

beer bacon
11-18-2007, 11:46 AM
WVU was already ahead of Missouri in the human polls. The OU loss will hurt Mizzou in the computer polls and probably the human polls for that matter.

Indeed. Good thing MU has KU and OU/UT coming up!