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View Full Version : Random Chiefs thoughts with.....donkhater


donkhater
11-19-2007, 08:21 AM
1. I don't mind Herm's conservative style that much. Tough teams that play defense and run the ball are consistently some of the best teams in the league and they usually have a chance to win any game they play. What I do mind is the predictable and unimaginative play-calling.

I don't need to see Brody throw the ball 40 times a game. But it would be nice that when he did, some thought into throwing the ball downfield would be nice. Give your a team a chance for Pete's sake. A flea-flicker? Some misdirection, maybe? Indy's defense SWARMS to the ball very quickly. Some attempt at misdirection could have worked don't ya think?

2. If Herm wants to live and die by that style, the special teams have to be special not special-needs special. Seriously, as bad as this team has been on offense, you could argue that KC could be above .500 if a they had a better kicker and return unit. Colquitt and the punt coverage team has even had lapses this season that has cost this team dearly. Field postion is numero uno in Hermball and it is found in special teams.

3. Priest can't take more than 15 snaps a game. If you do give it to him more than that you got to spread it out more. He was toast by halftime. Kolby Smith, come on down. Since LJ got hurt this offense put up 11 and 10 points against banged up teams. LJ is definately one of the top five backs in the league. His demeanor is keeping many of you from seeing that.

4. I'm having more fun rooting for this team now that Brody is starting. With Huard, the prospects of making the playoffs at 8-8 were not that appealing. What would that accomplish? Nothing. And it would give Herm/Carl a reason to delay Croyle's development further. But with Croyle at the helm, KC winning the division and making the playoffs would be pretty cool regardless of their record. Sure, they'd probably get blown out by Jacksonville again, but it would be an important step for a lot of young players on the team.

5. Don't think winning the division is impossible. KC is still only a game out with 2 immediate home games against division opponents. Win both those and KC will likely be at least tied for the division lead with four to go.

That is all.

the Talking Can
11-19-2007, 08:33 AM
for once our "if we played in the NFC we'd make the playoffs too" claims may come true..the AFC West is NFC-like this year...

agree with all your points, though I'd quibble with #1...the best teams in the NFL now have dynamic, aggressive offenses and good defenses...even Marty dumped Martyball...

HonestChieffan
11-19-2007, 08:38 AM
Any post that supports this idea of Herm as a decent coach is just so much crap....he clearly is too old school, too hard headed, and to inflexible given the situation and his talent...he cannot adapt. He cannot improvise. Sad but this is what we all knew was coming. I have put my hopes back on hold .

Mecca
11-19-2007, 08:41 AM
It's impossible to win with just defense now, you can't compete with the Pats with no offense, the same can be said for Dallas, GB, there's just to many teams that can score to think putting up 14 will win you a game.

thehead
11-19-2007, 08:44 AM
Jacksonville is a very conservative style football team & they still take shots down the field ,Herm is a freaking nitwit plain & simple :grr:

donkhater
11-19-2007, 08:51 AM
I guess when I reread it it does come off as being a Herm supporter, which I never really have been.

I'm just saying that I don't mind that style of offense much, but to play it correctly you need a few things to win consistently with it. The model, I guess, being Pittsburgh.

1. Great defense. KC is close. Some speed at CB and an upgrade at MLB would do it IMO.

2. Very good to great special teams. KC is no where near average in this aspect.

3. You CANNOT be predictable in your play calling. conservative? To an extent, fine. But you have to take shots to keep a team honest and throw in a trick play know and again.

4. For most of this to happen, a stellar O-line is a must and non-negotiable.

I think Herm wants to be that type of team and I think he can win with it, but he also has to develop a winner's mentality. Something I don't think he has. He calls (or has his assistants call) game plans that are scared and timid and that is a recipe for disaster for ANY football team.

Bob Dole
11-19-2007, 08:51 AM
It's impossible to win with just defense now, you can't compete with the Pats with no offense, the same can be said for Dallas, GB, there's just to many teams that can score to think putting up 14 will win you a game.

Scoring 14 is a pipe dream at this point.

donkhater
11-19-2007, 08:51 AM
Jacksonville is a very conservative style football team & they still take shots down the field ,Herm is a freaking nitwit plain & simple :grr:
Another good example of a team I think Herm wants to emulate.

siberian khatru
11-19-2007, 08:52 AM
Great post, Donkhater.

Let me add something, a response to something Whitlock said in his column that dovetails with your first point. He said the Chiefs were being aggressive late in the first half by passing deep in their territory, and that's when Brodie got sacked and fumbled.

I'd say they were being the "wrong" kind of aggressive. They ran the first two plays on that possession, gained 5, and THEN passed in a fairly obvious passing situation. Not only that, they left Terry one-on-one with Mathis, which is a huge mismatch.

I guess they were "aggressive" only in that they didn't call a third straight run there. But to me, genuinely being aggressive there would be throwing on first and/or second down, to mix things up and keep the D off-balance. If you're gonna play it safe by running on two straight plays, then you should play it safe by keeping somebody in to help Terry double-team Mathis. Instead, IMO, they played the whole series wrong.

Mecca
11-19-2007, 08:53 AM
And you know what, for as nice as Jacksonville is, and in that style they play...

They'll never get by the Pats or the full strength Colts...

the Talking Can
11-19-2007, 08:53 AM
I personally don't want to be Jacksonville. They haven't won shit that matters.

I want to be Dallas/New England. Agressive offense and good defense.

the Talking Can
11-19-2007, 08:54 AM
And you know what, for as nice as Jacksonville is, and in that style they play...

They'll never get by the Pats or the full strength Colts...

damn, beat me to it

Mecca
11-19-2007, 08:54 AM
I personally don't want to be Jacksonville. They haven't won shit that matters.

I want to be Dallas/New England. Agressive offense and good defense.

Yep that says it all.......

Striving to be Jacksonville means you strive to be a pretty good team that will never win anything because that team while good, continues to sit behind the Colts and they aren't even close to NE.

siberian khatru
11-19-2007, 08:57 AM
Yep that says it all.......

Striving to be Jacksonville means you strive to be a pretty good team that will never win anything because that team while good, continues to sit behind the Colts and they aren't even close to NE.

We've already been that (1990-97).

the Talking Can
11-19-2007, 08:58 AM
Great post, Donkhater.

Let me add something, a response to something Whitlock said in his column that dovetails with your first point. He said the Chiefs were being aggressive late in the first half by passing deep in their territory, and that's when Brodie got sacked and fumbled.

I'd say they were being the "wrong" kind of aggressive. They ran the first two plays on that possession, gained 5, and THEN passed in a fairly obvious passing situation. Not only that, they left Terry one-on-one with Mathis, which is a huge mismatch.

I guess they were "aggressive" only in that they didn't call a third straight run there. But to me, genuinely being aggressive there would be throwing on first and/or second down, to mix things up and keep the D off-balance. If you're gonna play it safe by running on two straight plays, then you should play it safe by keeping somebody in to help Terry double-team Mathis. Instead, IMO, they played the whole series wrong.

mail this to Herm

donkhater
11-19-2007, 08:59 AM
Yep that says it all.......

Striving to be Jacksonville means you strive to be a pretty good team that will never win anything because that team while good, continues to sit behind the Colts and they aren't even close to NE.
To elevate to the status of Indy/NE Brody or someone else is going to have to approach the level of Manning/Brady. Do you see that happening? I don't.

I think Brody can be a fine QB in this league. Jacksonville is a strong/tough team that when it gets good QB play can play with and beat anyone including Indy. NE? Well, NE circa 2007 come along once in a lifetime so if you are holding out for that level of play you will be sorely dissappointed. But NE circa 2004 or 2005 is attainable, yes.

Mecca
11-19-2007, 09:00 AM
If you don't think the Chiefs will ever be on NE's level what are you watching for or hoping for?

That means they are playing and we are watching for nothing.....

the Talking Can
11-19-2007, 09:01 AM
To elevate to the status of Indy/NE Brody or someone else is going to have to approach the level of Manning/Brady. Do you see that happening? I don't.

I think Brody can be a fine QB in this league. Jacksonville is a strong/tough team that when it gets good QB play can play with and beat anyone including Indy. NE? Well, NE circa 2007 come along once in a lifetime so if you are holding out for that level of play you will be sorely dissappointed. But NE circa 2004 or 2005 is attainable, yes.

I think Brodie has the arm, and Bowe, to run an agressive offense. It is all a matter of personal, obviously, and fixing the OL, so who knows. But I think Brodie's talent would/will be wasted under Herm's style.

donkhater
11-19-2007, 09:01 AM
We've already been that (1990-97).
The only thing missing in Jacksonville is strong, consistent QB play. If they get that, they will be dangerous. Even to NE or Indy.

KC had it in 95 and 97, but they didn't have the QB play either. At least in '97 they were serious contenders for the Super Bowl. The winner of that playoff game was destined to win the Championship that year. That's all you can ask for, IMO.

Mecca
11-19-2007, 09:03 AM
There weren't any teams in the AFC like NE now during the 90's......there was Dallas in the NFC during a period, and that Dallas team would have raped the Chiefs in a Bowl...just like they did Buffalo.

Actually rephrase Buffalo was a pretty dominant team and you saw how they treated us in the playoffs.

donkhater
11-19-2007, 09:03 AM
If you don't think the Chiefs will ever be on NE's level what are you watching for or hoping for?

That means they are playing and we are watching for nothing.....
You think there will always be a team playing at NE's level year in and year out?

If you are holding out for KC EVER playing at the level NE currently is, you should stop watching football cuase you are just going to be dissappointed.

Mecca
11-19-2007, 09:04 AM
Tom Brady is probably going to play for at least 5-8 more years.....

So I guess I should start watching again when he retires.

Baby Lee
11-19-2007, 09:05 AM
And you know what, for as nice as Jacksonville is, and in that style they play...

They'll never get by the Pats or the full strength Colts...
Yeah, they didn't run for, what, 500? 750? yards against the Colts last year?

the Talking Can
11-19-2007, 09:06 AM
Yeah, they didn't run for, what, 500? 750? yards against the Colts last year?

so what?

who won a Superbowl?

siberian khatru
11-19-2007, 09:08 AM
You think there will always be a team playing at NE's level year in and year out?



What's sad is that there wasn't a dominant AFC team in 95, and we blew it by crapping our pants at home vs. the Colts. We're either never good enough to beat the best, or we screw ourselves out of favorable matchups.

donkhater
11-19-2007, 09:08 AM
Tom Brady is probably going to play for at least 5-8 more years.....

So I guess I should start watching again when he retires.
Wow. How have you not slit your wrists yet?

NE has caught lightning in a bottle this year. There are no guarantees they will maintain this level of dominance. Prior editions of the Patriots were eminantly beatable. Good, but beatable. I do recall other teams winning the Super Bowl since Brady began playing in the league.

Mecca
11-19-2007, 09:09 AM
so what?

who won a Superbowl?

Exactly

thehead
11-19-2007, 09:09 AM
Yep that says it all.......

Striving to be Jacksonville means you strive to be a pretty good team that will never win anything because that team while good, continues to sit behind the Colts and they aren't even close to NE.






I do not want the Chiefs to be like Jacksonville, just saying they are a very conservative team & when they have to they take the Opportunity to try & score they do , not pray someone else screws up , Jville is in the same boat QB wise , you still have to play to win

Mecca
11-19-2007, 09:10 AM
Wow. How have you not slit your wrists yet?

NE has caught lightning in a bottle this year. There are no guarantees they will maintain this level of dominance. Prior editions of the Patriots were eminantly beatable. Good, but beatable. I do recall other teams winning the Super Bowl since Brady began playing in the league.

They're actually getting better every year....I think Brady is going to win 6 or 7 bowls by the time he retires.

Baby Lee
11-19-2007, 09:28 AM
so what?

who won a Superbowl?
WTF?

Mecca says they can't get by the Colts. I point out that they not only 'got by,' but manhandled them, in their last meeting lat year. All the sudden we're talking about who won the SB? Stupidity knows no bounds.

donkhater
11-19-2007, 09:33 AM
No team has steamrolled through this league like NE is doing since the '85 Bears. I guess that they could continue to do it for another 5-6 years, but history says they won't.

True they've been consistently good, but there hasn't been a team that has been a dominant lock to win the Super bowl in 22 years, and I imagine that it'll be that long until we see one again.

Edit: The '89 Niners were at that level too. So it's been 18 years.

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 09:43 AM
Great post, donkhater.

Concur about STs and LJ.

I think Herm is a Mike Martz away from a 12-4 season. Get a mad scientist OC in here and build an O around Croyle and Bowe. BucBall may get some tough Ws but will never win a championship.

donkhater
11-19-2007, 09:49 AM
Hey, I'm really not advocating the type of play Herm wants, but he isn't going to change. I just think that that style CAN be successful, but a lot of things need to happen for it to be.

I think KC's offense in late 2005 (right when Roaf returned from injury) is about as perfect of an offense I have ever seen. Sure, NE is throwing it around everywhere but they are doing it with one of the best two players ever to play football at WR and QB. KC had that power sweep with LJ and the downfield passing game down to near perfection.

(sigh)

Coogs
11-19-2007, 09:58 AM
I really didn't have a problem with this whole game... except our last drive that began with about 8 minutes to go.

The first 3 quarters were damn exciting. Most exciting Chiefs game I have seen in a couple of years. We were going toe-to-toe with the defending Super Bowl champs. Even outplaying them IMO. Sure, we had some missed opportunities, but they had those same misses.

The gameplan had us right where we wanted to be. A chance to win the game in the last few minutes. That is the point Solari needed to unleash Croyle. Instead on both first downs we ran. Croyle bailed us out on the first one with 7 and 14 yard completions. Keep attacking right there. Go for the juggular. Win or lose right there. And that is what we did... lose right there.

I'm still plenty stoked about what we saw yesterday. And maybe this is the Denver game at Denver from last season. The kept Huard under wraps that whole game... and lost a game we maybe could have won. Then they opened it up a bit the next game. Maybe that will happen again this season.

Dave Lane
11-19-2007, 10:17 AM
BucBall may get some tough Ws but will never win a championship.


Amen KCJ and rep for figuring this out!!! :toast:

Lets now hope Herm gets fired or hit really hard in the head by an errant throw and wakes up and smells the coffee too.

Dave

PS I think even Dungy smelled the coffee. Going for it on 4th and inches that late in the game with a tied score takes balls and guts that Herm will never have.