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View Full Version : Is there ANY Scenario Where Solari Stays in 2008?


KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 10:59 AM
Usually a bottom feeder performance means a demotion/firing.
Driving the most powerful O in the league into the bottom of the basement should mean a dismissal - even during the season.

The only scenario I can foresee that includes Solari involves Herm admitting that He is the reason our "arena football" offense died the death. Herm will either have to take responsibility for that putrid offense or throw Solari under the bus.

I am hoping Norv gets canned in SD and we get him to build a real Coryell offense again.

KurtCobain
11-19-2007, 11:02 AM
We ain't getting Norv, not even as a shoe-shiner.

Who has Gregg Knapp?

Hoover
11-19-2007, 11:02 AM
Yes, but is the Oline coach

I don't really care if its the Coryell offense or not.

I want a guy who can quickly develope a relationship with our young QB. Also Brodie, TG, and Bowe need to spend the offseason working togehter

Bowser
11-19-2007, 11:04 AM
Sure there is. Herm and/or Carl come out and admit just how pathetic our O-Line is, and make the statement that NO offensive coordinator could have made anything from and offense anchored by that line. Or, they don't say it publicly but know full well just what the problem is, and give him the pass. OR, Herm is Vermeil-esque with his loyalty, and keeps Solari around a year or two too long, ala Greg Robinson.

Personally, I'd like to see Solari back to coaching the O-Line exclusively, and move Charlie Joiner up to coordinator. But like I said, Joiner wouldn't be any better with the turds we're lining up on the line.

Dave Lane
11-19-2007, 11:06 AM
I fully expect Herm to throw Solari under the bus if there is ANY pressure on him to resign. However is they manage to eke out a 8-8 season then Herm will keep him so he has a pass / out for next season

Dave

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 11:10 AM
Sure there is. Herm and/or Carl come out and admit just how pathetic our O-Line is, and make the statement that NO offensive coordinator could have made anything from and offense anchored by that line. Or, they don't say it publicly but know full well just what the problem is, and give him the pass. OR, Herm is Vermeil-esque with his loyalty, and keeps Solari around a year or two too long, ala Greg Robinson.

Personally, I'd like to see Solari back to coaching the O-Line exclusively, and move Charlie Joiner up to coordinator. But like I said, Joiner wouldn't be any better with the turds we're lining up on the line.

Joiner certainly can't do any worse. At least he was a player/coach at a skill position. Solari was an OL coach.

I see somebody taking the hit. You can't finish 31st in the NFL in total offense and keep your job, can you?

pikesome
11-19-2007, 11:12 AM
Sure there is. Herm and/or Carl come out and admit just how pathetic our O-Line is, and make the statement that NO offensive coordinator could have made anything from and offense anchored by that line. Or, they don't say it publicly but know full well just what the problem is, and give him the pass. OR, Herm is Vermeil-esque with his loyalty, and keeps Solari around a year or two too long, ala Greg Robinson.

Here it is. I don't see the Chiefs making many changes the next 2 years. Herm's going to get a pass because 1. It's his 2nd year 2. We went to the playoffs his first 3. Drafting has been successful by any measure 4. Carl will want to keep him. Carl stays because his contract has 2 more years, short of an egregious problem Hunt leaves him alone till he retires. Solari probably stays because the team will finish decent-ish and most of our problems can be blamed on Oline, QB and RB issues. Short of Herm or Carl going early (which ain't going to happen) I don't see a shake up in the coaching staff. If the team tanks the rest of the season Solari is the most likely to go but I'm guessing the team's going to play well enough to keep him here.

Bowser
11-19-2007, 11:12 AM
Joiner certainly can't do any worse. At least he was a player/coach at a skill position. Solari was an OL coach.

I see somebody taking the hit. You can't finish 31st in the NFL in total offense and keep your job, can you?

I think so, especially if playing not to lose is what your head coach is in favor of, and asking the coordinator to do.

Wile_E_Coyote
11-19-2007, 11:15 AM
Clark has has a year to grieve his father's passing & let things be. I wonder if now he steps in & becomes more hands on

Zouk
11-19-2007, 11:16 AM
I think he'll be back.

The talent on offense is not competitive. If you watch the team, you see they cannot execute even simple plays. Everyone imagines these are 8 and 9 man fronts that are whipping us - but it's flat untrue. The Colts kept their safeties back all game, and we still couldn't run on their undersized front. And we turn the ball over or have a negative play on an alarming % of seven-stop drops. The conservatism is a response to the ineptiude not the cause of it.

pikesome
11-19-2007, 11:19 AM
The conservatism is a response to the ineptiude not the cause of it.

It also is part of the problem. We're trying to win with D which is near impossible in the NFL any more. If the team took more risks, even if they were unsuccessful, we'd have a better chance, IMHO. Playing it tight hasn't worked well, we ought to at least try to go balls out.

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 11:20 AM
Here it is. I don't see the Chiefs making many changes the next 2 years. Herm's going to get a pass because 1. It's his 2nd year 2. We went to the playoffs his first 3. Drafting has been successful by any measure 4. Carl will want to keep him. Carl stays because his contract has 2 more years, short of an egregious problem Hunt leaves him alone till he retires. Solari probably stays because the team will finish decent-ish and most of our problems can be blamed on Oline, QB and RB issues. Short of Herm or Carl going early (which ain't going to happen) I don't see a shake up in the coaching staff. If the team tanks the rest of the season Solari is the most likely to go but I'm guessing the team's going to play well enough to keep him here.

I read on the Dick Curl thread that he as assistant HC has veto power over Solari's play calling. Thoughts?

Let's get one thing straight. What we saw yesterday was the game plan scripted for young Brodie to not get humiliated in his first start against the defending SB champs. They ran about 10 different plays that they probably meticulously prepared for in practice.

I wonder if the whole playbook is open (both pages, front and back :rolleyes:) and Solari tries to game plan to this offense's actual strengths (saw faint glipses of that yesterday) whether we may arrive at the arena league like 20 ppg? I mean, is the potential there or not? Is it the play calling or do we just stink?

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 11:23 AM
I think he'll be back.

The talent on offense is not competitive. If you watch the team, you see they cannot execute even simple plays. Everyone imagines these are 8 and 9 man fronts that are whipping us - but it's flat untrue. The Colts kept their safeties back all game, and we still couldn't run on their undersized front. And we turn the ball over or have a negative play on an alarming % of seven-stop drops. The conservatism is a response to the ineptiude not the cause of it.

Rich Baldinger was doing analysis and play break downs for KC Metro Sports last night and brought up this very point. He said at least one OLman misses an assignment on nearly every running play. Baldy had film and was able to show the fans what he was talking about.

I think just as Norv is an OC who builds gaudy offenses but ruins a good offense as a HC, so Solari builds great OLs but ruins them as an OC.

Reerun_KC
11-19-2007, 11:27 AM
Pretty sure he will be discarded and off to another team building a solid OL agian.

Solari is just paving the way for Dickomotion offense in 2008...

FAX
11-19-2007, 11:32 AM
I honestly don't blame Solari. The Indy game strategy had Herm written all over it. In bugger juice.

FAX

Zouk
11-19-2007, 11:33 AM
It also is part of the problem. We're trying to win with D which is near impossible in the NFL any more. If the team took more risks, even if they were unsuccessful, we'd have a better chance, IMHO. Playing it tight hasn't worked well, we ought to at least try to go balls out.

The only teams to beat the Colts in the RCA dome in a meaningful game over the last 3 years are the Pats this year and the Steelers in the 2005 playoffs. Both games went down to the wire, and both victors are/were Super Bowl champs.

The Chiefs got closer than anyone else over the last 3 years, even though we were playing a QB in first game, our only good receiver is a rookie, and the right side of the offensive line is amongst the worst in NFL history. We were widely picked to win about 4 games this year.

The Colts get 2-3 interceptions / strip sacks at home in virtually all games. Check the boxscores. We held them to 1 in this game, and we had a chance. If we aired it out, there would have been more turnovers and we would not have had a chance. The percentages are very clear on this.

pikesome
11-19-2007, 11:35 AM
I read on the Dick Curl thread that he as assistant HC has veto power over Solari's play calling. Thoughts?

I don't know about this. I hope it's not true but if it is it means that Solari stays or DC takes over, I don't see any other outcome. And DC calling plays scares me, Solari isn't completely incompetent and, I think, is improving.

Let's get one thing straight. What we saw yesterday was the game plan scripted for young Brodie to not get humiliated in his first start against the defending SB champs. They ran about 10 different plays that they probably meticulously prepared for in practice.

I agree 110%. The play calling looked to be tailored for what they thought would work and Croyle's inexperience. The lack of adjustment seemed to be the most glaring problem. The Colts adjusted and we didn't, that might be lack of faith (or ability) in Brodie or chickenshitedness, I don't know.

I wonder if the whole playbook is open (both pages, front and back :rolleyes:) and Solari tries to game plan to this offense's actual strengths (saw faint glipses of that yesterday) whether we may arrive at the arena league like 20 ppg? I mean, is the potential there or not? Is it the play calling or do we just stink?

I think it is. Solari is getting better but he's got a conservative HC (and GM probably), a lack of talent on the Oline, a lack of experience at QB and a good D. The smart (or scaredy, depending on how you look at it) gameplan is more conservative, try to finish the season without embarrassment and getting experience for the younger guys. Then work next year fixing the problems.

I just wish we'd open it up a bit more, it's like not talking to a girl because she's not going to respond so you just give up and go home to beat one out. That's the safe plan.

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 11:36 AM
The only teams to beat the Colts in the RCA dome in a meaningful game over the last 3 years are the Pats this year and the Steelers in the 2005 playoffs. Both games went down to the wire, and both victors are/were Super Bowl champs.

The Chiefs have got closer than anyone else over the last 3 years, even though we were playing a QB in first game, our only good receiver is a rookie, and the right side of the offensive line is amongst the worst in NFL history. We were widely picked to win about 4 games this year.

The Colts get 2-3 interceptions / strip sacks at home in virtually all games. Check the boxscores. We held them to 1 in this game, and we had a chance. If we aired it out, there would have been more turnovers and we would not have had a chance. The percentages are very clear on this.

We have the final possession of the first half and Indy gets the ball first in the 2nd half.
So what do we do? With 1:15 remaining and 3 TOs, we run out the clock. Gutless. I agree, we don't need 45 passing attempts, but that just says "surrender".

pikesome
11-19-2007, 11:39 AM
The only teams to beat the Colts in the RCA dome in a meaningful game over the last 3 years are the Pats this year and the Steelers in the 2005 playoffs. Both games went down to the wire, and both victors are/were Super Bowl champs.

The Chiefs got closer than anyone else over the last 3 years, even though we were playing a QB in first game, our only good receiver is a rookie, and the right side of the offensive line is amongst the worst in NFL history. We were widely picked to win about 4 games this year.

The Colts get 2-3 interceptions / strip sacks at home in virtually all games. Check the boxscores. We held them to 1 in this game, and we had a chance. If we aired it out, there would have been more turnovers and we would not have had a chance. The percentages are very clear on this.

I can't disagree but, at least in my mind, this season is a rebuilding one. I don't care what 1 Arrowhead calls it, we're building for next year or the year after. Instead of trying so damn hard to get the D to win it we could have been more aggressive. Would we win? Probably not but we didn't win this time either. But we would have laid the groundwork for the future when our Oline doesn't stink and our QB is more confident.

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 11:42 AM
I don't know about this. I hope it's not true but if it is it means that Solari stays or DC takes over, I don't see any other outcome. And DC calling plays scares me, Solari isn't completely incompetent and, I think, is improving.

I agree 110%. The play calling looked to be tailored for what they thought would work and Croyle's inexperience. The lack of adjustment seemed to be the most glaring problem. The Colts adjusted and we didn't, that might be lack of faith (or ability) in Brodie or chickenshitedness, I don't know.

I think it is. Solari is getting better but he's got a conservative HC (and GM probably), a lack of talent on the Oline, a lack of experience at QB and a good D. The smart (or scaredy, depending on how you look at it) gameplan is more conservative, try to finish the season without embarrassment and getting experience for the younger guys. Then work next year fixing the problems.

I just wish we'd open it up a bit more, it's like not talking to a girl because she's not going to respond so you just give up and go home to beat one out. That's the safe plan.

I though those were thoughtful comments until your last allegory. %(/

My gut tells me you are right - it's more Herm and his BucBall/NO Areana League attitude that is holding the team back. Perhaps Solari can do better next year with a new OLT, a new RG and moving MacIntosh to ORT?

Chiefnj2
11-19-2007, 12:00 PM
It is set up perfectly for Curl. Back in January/February I called Solari being the scapegoat for 2007.

They'll improve the OL via free agency and the draft and Curl will get credit for moving the offense from 32nd to 25th and Herm will say it was a step in the right direction, etc.

pikesome
11-19-2007, 12:01 PM
I though those were thoughtful comments until your last allegory. %(/

I couldn't think of another example, we play like we're afraid of being beat badly. Not "trying not to lose", "trying not to get embarrassed". Like hurt feelings is the most important thing to avoid.

My gut tells me you are right - it's more Herm and his BucBall/NO Areana League attitude that is holding the team back. Perhaps Solari can do better next year with a new OLT, a new RG and moving MacIntosh to ORT?

I'm not ready to give up on Herm, his management isn't completely bad. I'm really interested in how much CP has said to him. The whole Brodie deal reeked of the GM and Herm isn't the kind of guy who's going to tell his GM to butt out. I can see Carl making it clear that he doesn't want to be embarrassed and implying that a 4-12 season would result in Herm carrying Peterson's bags out the door in 2009. Herm's not in a position where he dictates his own agenda.

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 12:02 PM
It is set up perfectly for Curl. Back in January/February I called Solari being the scapegoat for 2007.

They'll improve the OL via free agency and the draft and Curl will get credit for moving the offense from 32nd to 25th and Herm will say it was a step in the right direction, etc.

Heck, 25th might get us in the playoffs.

I hear ya, tho. I hope we get a veteran OC in here like Norv or Dave Shula. No more promoting from within.

Mr. Laz
11-19-2007, 12:04 PM
i expect Solari to be back next year unless Herm needs a fall guy.


Solari is running the offense just like Herm wants him too but Herm will throw him under the bus if he needs to.

ceebz
11-19-2007, 12:06 PM
Not a chance in hell.... Solari will be this season's Greg Robinson.

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 12:06 PM
I couldn't think of another example, we play like we're afraid of being beat badly. Not "trying not to lose", "trying not to get embarrassed". Like hurt feelings is the most important thing to avoid.



I'm not ready to give up on Herm, his management isn't completely bad. I'm really interested in how much CP has said to him. The whole Brodie deal reeked of the GM and Herm isn't the kind of guy who's going to tell his GM to butt out. I can see Carl making it clear that he doesn't want to be embarrassed and implying that a 4-12 season would result in Herm carrying Peterson's bags out the door in 2009. Herm's not in a position where he dictates his own agenda.

True dat. I've never been a fan of "keep the score down and try to win in the 4th quarter." ?????? You have to try to dominate your opponent in every phase of the game. Playing field position and hoping the other team beats themselves has proven to get you 9-7 and a 1st round exit. Going into halftime with all 3 TOs unspent on our final possession was deplorable.

You obviously know some things that I don't with your 2nd paragraph. I agree - it smells like Carl - but it tastes like BucBall to me.

FringeNC
11-19-2007, 12:10 PM
i expect Solari to be back next year unless Herm needs a fall guy.


Solari is running the offense just like Herm wants him too but Herm will throw him under the bus if he needs to.

That's exactly right. Solari is OC in name only. Dick Curl is really our offensive coordinator. Ever wonder why the players are always mad at Curl instead of Solari?

pikesome
11-19-2007, 12:14 PM
True dat. I've never been a fan of "keep the score down and try to win in the 4th quarter." ?????? You have to try to dominate your opponent in every phase of the game. Playing field position and hoping the other team beats themselves has proven to get you 9-7 and a 1st round exit. Going into halftime with all 3 TOs unspent on our final possession was deplorable.

You obviously know some things that I don't with your 2nd paragraph. I agree - it smells like Carl - but it tastes like BucBall to me.

Herm's a Marty man, conservative is his MO. But I'm wondering if the King isn't dead-set against anything stinking before he walks after 2009. He's leaving for sure, and not early IMHO, but it would be a nasty punctuation mark on his career if the Chiefs went 4-12, 5-11 his last two seasons as GM. He doesn't have a signature season to distract people from a bad, bad couple of seasons. His thinking (and I am guessing here) is for the team to not look like crap so that's not what people outside KC remember about him.

bobbything
11-19-2007, 12:15 PM
Herm doesn't like the offensive scheme. He's only keeping Solari on because most of the players on offense know it so well. I'll bet that if Herm starts cleaning some O-linemen out, that Solari will go as well (at least as OC), and we'll see a different offense in place next year.

Hell, Herm even admitted that they basically dumbed down the offense. He thought it was needlessly complex. However, he then went onto say that "the offense hasn't changed."

Well, which is it?

Zouk
11-19-2007, 12:17 PM
We have the final possession of the first half and Indy gets the ball first in the 2nd half.
So what do we do? With 1:15 remaining and 3 TOs, we run out the clock. Gutless. I agree, we don't need 45 passing attempts, but that just says "surrender".

The way the Chiefs would win that game with this talent is not with guts. I know it's complicated to understand, but it's true. The Chiefs had no business being in that game, but with a few made kicks, no Terry-caused Croyle fumble, no Kennison fumble, better punting, and 1 more stop from the D we win. That's amazing. We did that by playing AROUND the offense, not through it.

It will not always be this way. There will be at least 5 new starters on O next year, and Croyle will have more experience. But that's the best way for the team on the road against a top 5 team until we can get to the offseason. This game proved it - it didn't disprove it.

Zouk
11-19-2007, 12:19 PM
That's exactly right. Solari is OC in name only. Dick Curl is really our offensive coordinator. Ever wonder why the players are always mad at Curl instead of Solari?


They're not yelling at Solari because he's up in the box. Dick Curl is the man on the sideline relaying the play to the huddle. Hre doesn't have veto power- this is a figment of Whitlock-encouraged imaginations.

Wile_E_Coyote
11-19-2007, 12:21 PM
If Herm is not into airing it out, why did he draft Croyle in the first place. 2+2 does not =4 here

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 12:24 PM
The way the Chiefs would win that game with this talent is not with guts. I know it's complicated to understand, but it's true. The Chiefs had no business being in that game, but with a few made kicks, no Terry-caused Croyle fumble, no Kennison fumble, better punting, and 1 more stop from the D we win. That's amazing. We did that by playing AROUND the offense, not through it.

It will not always be this way. There will be at least 5 new starters on O next year, and Croyle will have more experience. But that's the best way for the team on the road against a top 5 team until we can get to the offseason. This game proved it - it didn't disprove it.

I can't argue with anything you said Zouk.
My point was with 1:15 remaining and 3 TOs left, a FG is the difference in this game. If Croyle can get the team to the 30 yard line, we win this thing. Fact is, we'll never know.

Good point about the turnovers, though. If Terry doesn't let Brodie get whacked from the blind side, we win that game hands down.

Chiefnj2
11-19-2007, 12:29 PM
The Chiefs had no business being in that game, it.

Why? The Colts were without their top players. Why shouldn't KC be "in" the game when the Bolts were able to beat Indy?

Reerun_KC
11-19-2007, 12:37 PM
They're not yelling at Solari because he's up in the box. Dick Curl is the man on the sideline relaying the play to the huddle. Hre doesn't have veto power- this is a figment of Whitlock-encouraged imaginations.


You dont have the title ASST HC and not have veto power over the Offensive play calling. Asst HC is higher on the food chain than OC and DC....

You look back at Herms career what is the one constant since 03? Dick Curl and a sharply declining offensive schemes...

History isnt lying to us Zouk...

Zouk
11-19-2007, 12:38 PM
Why? The Colts were without their top players. Why shouldn't KC be "in" the game when the Bolts were able to beat Indy?


The Colts were up 2 scores in the 2nd half without Harrison against the best team ever just a few weeks ago.

Everyone knows it is much tougher to beat them in the RCA dome.

StcChief
11-19-2007, 12:54 PM
back to OL coaching as it's in need of retooling.

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 01:53 PM
back to OL coaching as it's in need of retooling.

I am sure there are success stories out there, but I have never heard of an OL coach running the Coryell offense. There are so many moving pieces in the pro game, it just seem daft that an OL coach is going to be successful. Maybe its not Solari's fault. Maybe there's more to the story. We have 6 games to find out. As of now, this offense is, well, offensive.

KCChiefsFan88
11-19-2007, 02:40 PM
Clark has has a year to grieve his father's passing & let things be. I wonder if now he steps in & becomes more hands on

That would most likely be a negative considering Clark Hunt is a gutless piece of garbage who is content with 7-9/8-8 seasons.

Reerun_KC
11-19-2007, 02:45 PM
That would most likely be a negative considering Clark Hunt is a gutless piece of garbage who is content with 7-9/8-8 seasons.


Really when did that start?

Brock
11-19-2007, 02:53 PM
That would most likely be a negative considering Clark Hunt is a gutless piece of garbage who is content with 7-9/8-8 seasons.

Yeah, that much is obvious after a couple of years. If he's a gutless piece of garbage, what does that make Lamar?

Bump
11-19-2007, 03:37 PM
I want him to go more than the next guy but I wouldn't be surprised if he stays.

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 04:55 PM
The more I read the comments and the press, the more it looks like Herm, not Solari is to blame for this anemic offense. But Herm doesn't script the plays. Do you think Herm gives specific guidance like "run on first down" or general guidance like "try to establish the run in the first half, even if its tough sledding"?

Mr. Laz
11-19-2007, 05:07 PM
The more I read the comments and the press, the more it looks like Herm, not Solari is to blame for this anemic offense. But Herm doesn't script the plays. Do you think Herm gives specific guidance like "run on first down" or general guidance like "try to establish the run in the first half, even if its tough sledding"?
i don't think Herm calls plays ...... but he sets the tone in practice and he sets the tone about what kind of offense he wants

Rausch
11-19-2007, 05:16 PM
I think he'll get fired here and go coach the line for someone else...

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 05:48 PM
i don't think Herm calls plays ...... but he sets the tone in practice and he sets the tone about what kind of offense he wants

Makes ya wonder how the game plan is developed.

Most teams script their first dozen plays or so. That mean we will have gone through the whole playbook 3 times in the first quarter.