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Tribal Warfare
11-19-2007, 03:20 PM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/11/19/gretz_accomplishing_something/


INDIANAPOLIS – If you doubt whether the Chiefs have accomplished anything in 27 games of Herm Ball over the last two seasons, then you should have been in the visitor’s locker room at the RCA Dome after their 13-10 loss on Sunday to the Colts.

In that room was a group of ticked off football players. They were mad. They were frustrated with the game’s outcome. For most of this afternoon, the Chiefs had played better football than the Colts. Yet, they ended up with another loss, their third straight.

There was no talk of moral victories, no talk of fighting the good fight against tough odds. Coming into the game, the boys in Las Vegas had set the Chiefs as 14_-point underdogs. Nobody gave them a chance. The Colts are the defending Super Bowl champions and they had lost two in a row. Sure, they had some injuries, but they still had Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne, Joseph Addai, Dallas Clark, Bob Sanders and a host of other more obscure, but very talented players. Plus, they were playing at home, a place where whether the crowd noise is enhanced or not, it’s very loud and difficult for the visitors.

Against these long odds, the Chiefs played the Colts toe-to-toe. They rattled Manning, they took Clark out of the game and for the most part controlled the running of Addai. The offense continued to have its problems (see the offensive line), but Brodie Croyle looked cool and confident in his first NFL start.

Coming close and just missing the victory would be enough for some. Dare say, it may have been enough for many on this team say early last year.

Not so on this day, and with this team. After a game where the Chiefs defense turned in one of its most impressive showings in the last decade, Jared Allen said: “We let the team down. The defense. We couldn’t stop them on that drive late in the game. We allowed them the chance to win the game. That’s on us.

“A good game. That’s crap. We lost.”

The drive Allen mentioned began after a poor Dustin Colquitt punt that traveled just 37 yards and netted the Chiefs just 28 yards. Indy had the ball at its own 33-yard line with six minutes, 59 seconds to play. Fourteen plays and 6:56 later, Adam Vinatieri kicked the game winning field goal with three seconds to play in the game.

In the first half the Chiefs defense, had Manning befuddled. The Colts went seven plays and missed a field goal, five plays and punt, seven plays and another missed field goal, one play and a Jarrad Page interception off a pass tipped by Allen, three plays punt, three plays punt and four plays and a field goal. In the first half, Indy had 27 plays and 73 yards. Addai was averaging 2.6 a carry and Manning was six of 16 for a mere 62 yards with a sack and an interception.

“We got to him, he was frustrated,” said Allen. “But that was the first half.” Manning led a scoring drive in the third quarter that gave the Colts the lead, but Croyle marched the Chiefs down the field soon after on an 11-play drive that ended with a pretty TD throw to Dwayne Bowe.

Thus it was tied late into the fourth quarter.

“We’ve got to seal the deal,” said Allen. “Oh, that jus ticks me off.”

There are a lot of doors that a rebuilding team must walk through in its journey. Yes, whether some want to admit it or not, the Chiefs are rebuilding.Right now after 27 games under Herm Edwards, the Chiefs are 13-14. They’ve lost three straight, yet still remain just a game behind AFC West leader San Diego, with the Chargers coming to Arrowhead in a fortnight.

But the mindset, the culture of this team has changed. After a game where so much went right, they couldn’t seal the deal and they were ticked off for all the right reasons.

Moral victories mean zilch. Still, the Chiefs took another step on Sunday in Indianapolis towards being able to compete and beat the league’s best.

Tribal Warfare
11-19-2007, 03:23 PM
the Chiefs are rebuilding.


Christ, they've sunk so low they finally come to terms.

Hydrae
11-19-2007, 03:25 PM
Eh, whatever. Don't tell me how Allen feels like the defense let the team down (absolutely not!), tell me about the offensive players and their comments on the game plan on that side of the ball.

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 03:26 PM
I agree with Gretz. That's the hardest game KC will play all year and they almost won. The next 6 are gravy compared to that one.

StcChief
11-19-2007, 03:29 PM
inept play calling, too many 3- outs. D on field too much.

HemiEd
11-19-2007, 03:29 PM
The drive Allen mentioned began after a poor Dustin Colquitt punt that traveled just 37 yards and netted the Chiefs just 28 yards .

They need to trade Colquitt, he has been overused.

bobbything
11-19-2007, 03:30 PM
Never before have so many words said so little.

FAX
11-19-2007, 03:30 PM
The Chiefs PR Department in fine form.

Blaming the D: "... Jared Allen said: “We let the team down. The defense. We couldn’t stop them on that drive late in the game. We allowed them the chance to win the game. That’s on us."

Blaming the punter: "... after a poor Dustin Colquitt punt that traveled just 37 yards and netted the Chiefs just 28 yards ..."

Communicating hope: "... yet still remain just a game behind AFC West leader San Diego, with the Chargers coming to Arrowhead in a fortnight. ..."

Deflecting truth and reinforcing argument: "... they were ticked off for all the right reasons."

Supporting Herm: "... the Chiefs took another step on Sunday in Indianapolis towards being able to compete and beat the league’s best."

All that they left out was blaming the young QB. Dipshitism is too kind a word.

FAX

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 03:40 PM
inept play calling, too many 3- outs. D on field too much.

Chiefs won the TOP battle 32:23 to 27:37. Going into the final drive KC had 12 minute advantage.

the Talking Can
11-19-2007, 03:44 PM
Never before have so many words said so little.

amen

we should be happy that our team doesn't like losing...wow...Carl is a success based on that, according to Gretz, I guess

Brock
11-19-2007, 03:46 PM
They lost, but at least they felt bad about it. Yay!

MahiMike
11-19-2007, 04:06 PM
They need to trade Colquitt, he has been overused.

He's worn out! It's ok. Herm will draft 3 more and rotate them in.

Chiefs Pantalones
11-19-2007, 04:09 PM
Oh **** off, Gretz, you piece of shit.

That other lockerroom was smothered with injuries to key players. If they would've been healthy they would've wiped us off the field.

Rausch
11-19-2007, 04:14 PM
Consistently losing by a small margin is not anwhere ****ing close to always winning by a small margin. The difference in the game might only be 5 pts but being a team that is able to get them or not is what seperates the Patriots or Colts from everyone else.

Doing what you have to do to be competitive is miles from doing what you need to do to win. We're not winners yet...

Deberg_1990
11-19-2007, 04:17 PM
They need to trade Colquitt, he has been overused.


Agreed. Everyone knows the history of Punters who punt over 70 times in a season. They break down. Get rid of him.

Rausch
11-19-2007, 04:20 PM
Agreed. Everyone knows the history of Punters who punt over 70 times in a season. They break down. Get rid of him.

That said, we should be able to get at least two firsts for him...

Baby Lee
11-19-2007, 04:36 PM
inept play calling, too many 3- outs. D on field too much.
I am tired of the 'inept play calling' mantra.
This was Brodie's first start, on the road, against the SB champs.
We want this guy to stay around, and even if we lost yesterday, we played a game that has people saying 'that Brodie guy has a future.' They're saying that even though he had a lot of off throws, especially early, even the ones that were caught, and gave up a sack/fumble.
Herm's a big boy, he can take people pulling out their hair for a conservative gameplan. But in so doing, he's got the D playing the best they have in a decade, the O chomping at the bit, and the newbie QB looking like a very promising prospect. If we got all that at the cost of one road game, I'll take it every time.

If sometime down the line, we've got a revamped O-line, and capable backs and receivers around him, and Brodie's still looking like he's started off, and we're STILL in super conservative mode, I'll listen to these complaints and likely join in.

But after 1 game?? After Brodie's FIRST game? Eff that.

HemiEd
11-19-2007, 04:46 PM
Granted it was Brodies first start, and he looked very promising. Any Chiefs fan should be excited about his future.
However, this was not Herm's first game. He has shown a pattern of continually withdrawing into a more conservative mode. That is his answer to everything.

False Start-quit shifting
Interception-check down passes predominately
Kick off/Punt return fumble-hold on with both hands and take it on the 20

Those things were all key parts to having the #1 offense. I don't like the pattern, if one of our RBs fumbles he may just have them start kneeling down.
Seriously, I think this is Tony Gs frustration as well. Herm needs to find someone that can "coach up" the offense instead of stripping it down.

CoMoChief
11-19-2007, 04:51 PM
Allen shouldnt be pissed off about letting them score. The defense allowed only 13 ****ing points to the ****in Colts. If ANYONE would have told me before the game that we were gonna do that I would have told them that they're crazy.

What Jared Allen should be pissed off at is the ****in offense that has kept this team from winning games they probably should have won. I dont care who you are but if you stop a very explosive offensive team to where they only score less than 2 TD's, then you should win the ****ing game.

I like what Tony G did. Every star on this ****in team needs to get in Solari, Herm, and Curl's face and tell them how to run a real offense, this includes the defense players too. They have done everything anyone has asked them to do with the exception of a couple games.

CoMoChief
11-19-2007, 04:53 PM
If I was Croyle, especially now since they can't or shouldn't go back to Hutard because he's played well enough to stay the starter, is if a play was called down to the huddle and if I didn't like it, I'd say **** it and run something that exceeds the first down marker.

Deberg_1990
11-19-2007, 04:57 PM
The only thing i had a major problem with yesterday was the last play of the game. I dont understand why he didnt let Brodie wing it? That was a total "I give up, you win" gutless play call.


It should be obvious to everyone that Herm doesnt trust this Offensive line (can you blame him??)

Hes designing game plans to protect his QB as much as he can.

Some of you guys act as if the Chiefs are on the cusp of a championship team. Far from it....

Jusr relax and enjoy the young guys getting to play and make some plays. Its a whole lot more enjoyable that way.

Micjones
11-19-2007, 04:58 PM
I am tired of the 'inept play calling' mantra.
This was Brodie's first start, on the road, against the SB champs.
We want this guy to stay around, and even if we lost yesterday, we played a game that has people saying 'that Brodie guy has a future.' They're saying that even though he had a lot of off throws, especially early, even the ones that were caught, and gave up a sack/fumble.
Herm's a big boy, he can take people pulling out their hair for a conservative gameplan. But in so doing, he's got the D playing the best they have in a decade, the O chomping at the bit, and the newbie QB looking like a very promising prospect. If we got all that at the cost of one road game, I'll take it every time.

If sometime down the line, we've got a revamped O-line, and capable backs and receivers around him, and Brodie's still looking like he's started off, and we're STILL in super conservative mode, I'll listen to these complaints and likely join in.

But after 1 game?? After Brodie's FIRST game? Eff that.

God awful coaching mistakes before Sunday's game be damned eh?

There's no way to defend this staff.
We could've won the game if not for a conservative offensive approach.
That's what Herm's players told the media yesterday afternoon.

This guy flat shouldn't be coaching on this level.

I can't give Herm credit for the defensive turnaround either.
Talent did that.

FAX
11-19-2007, 05:00 PM
I am tired of the 'inept play calling' mantra.
This was Brodie's first start, on the road, against the SB champs.
We want this guy to stay around, and even if we lost yesterday, we played a game that has people saying 'that Brodie guy has a future.' They're saying that even though he had a lot of off throws, especially early, even the ones that were caught, and gave up a sack/fumble.
Herm's a big boy, he can take people pulling out their hair for a conservative gameplan. But in so doing, he's got the D playing the best they have in a decade, the O chomping at the bit, and the newbie QB looking like a very promising prospect. If we got all that at the cost of one road game, I'll take it every time.

If sometime down the line, we've got a revamped O-line, and capable backs and receivers around him, and Brodie's still looking like he's started off, and we're STILL in super conservative mode, I'll listen to these complaints and likely join in.

But after 1 game?? After Brodie's FIRST game? Eff that.

Good points, Mr. Baby Lee. I take it, then, you approve of pocketing the three timeouts at half time?

You know, I can see the need for conservative play calling if, indeed, it was done to protect Brodie from the baddies on defense. And although it's reasonable to think that, on 3rd and long in the 4th quarter, you might at least take a shot at the first down, that's debatable if you are sincerely concerned that Brodie could get killed. I mean, he could always throw it away. Nevertheless, that decision with 1 minute plus left in the first half demonstrates nothing short of cowardice, to me. My worry is that Herm is sucking the heart out of the guys who are putting their asses on the line on the field, want to win, and aren't given every opportunity to do so. Based on the players' post-game comments, there might be reason for concern.

FAX

Micjones
11-19-2007, 05:01 PM
Some of you guys act as if the Chiefs are on the cusp of a championship team. Far from it....

I'm no fool. I know that this team has a long way to go, but the ideology this staff employs is maddening. Forcing a conservative approach onto a group of players best suited for opening the offense up makes no sense at all.

We're not a viable Superbowl contender, but we're better than what we're seeing.

Micjones
11-19-2007, 05:03 PM
Good points, Mr. Baby Lee. I take it, then, you approve of pocketing the three timeouts at half time?

You know, I can see the need for conservative play calling if, indeed, it was done to protect Brodie from the baddies on defense. And although it's reasonable to think that, on 3rd and long in the 4th quarter, you might at least take a shot at the first down, that's debatable if you are sincerely concerned that Brodie could get killed. I mean, he could always throw it away. Nevertheless, that decision with 1 minute plus left in the first half demonstrates nothing short of cowardice, to me. My worry is that Herm is sucking the heart out of the guys who are putting their asses on the line on the field, want to win, and aren't given every opportunity to do so. Based on the players' post-game comments, there might be reason for concern.

FAX

Honestly... I want to see a mutiny.
I want Herm Edwards gone.

Players don't believe in him anymore.
They're calling him out in plain view. To the media week in and week out.

Deberg_1990
11-19-2007, 05:05 PM
We're not a viable Superbowl contender, but we're better than what we're seeing.


I dont believe that. We are what we are. This O-line is atrocious. The special teams are a disaster.

We have a 34 year old RB who hasnt played in 2 years starting. No legit fullback.

No Wr's except for Bowe.

We played an 11 year career (limited) backup for most of the season.

Now we will be playing a young (mistake prone) Qb for the rest.

There are problems everywhere with this team.

The major problem this team had was Carl and Herm not coming clean with the fans about this season and just admitting it was a rebuilding year. They tried to sell us a bill of goods that this team would be a serious contender.

picasso
11-19-2007, 05:09 PM
Granted it was Brodies first start, and he looked very promising. Any Chiefs fan should be excited about his future.
However, this was not Herm's first game. He has shown a pattern of continually withdrawing into a more conservative mode. That is his answer to everything.

False Start-quit shifting
Interception-check down passes predominately
Kick off/Punt return fumble-hold on with both hands and take it on the 20

Those things were all key parts to having the #1 offense. I don't like the pattern, if one of our RBs fumbles he may just have them start kneeling down.
Seriously, I think this is Tony Gs frustration as well. Herm needs to find someone that can "coach up" the offense instead of stripping it down.

:clap:

Micjones
11-19-2007, 05:20 PM
I dont believe that. We are what we are. This O-line is atrocious. The special teams are a disaster.

We have a 34 year old RB who hasnt played in 2 years starting. No legit fullback.

No Wr's except for Bowe.

We played an 11 year career (limited) backup for most of the season.

Now we will be playing a young (mistake prone) Qb for the rest.

There are problems everywhere with this team.

The major problem this team had was Carl and Herm not coming clean with the fans about this season and just admitting it was a rebuilding year. They tried to sell us a bill of goods that this team would be a serious contender.

A less conservative approach wins us 1-2 more games.
We aren't rebuilding. Not with Ty Law, Donnie Edwards and Pat Surtain starting. Not with this ancient offensive line.

We're confused.

This team is better than advertised when we play to our strengths.

Deberg_1990
11-19-2007, 05:28 PM
This team is better than advertised when we play to our strengths.

and just what is our strength on Offense?

the Run game? Nope

The pass game? nadda

When our QB takes deep drops he gets killed about 80% of the time.

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 05:32 PM
Honestly... I want to see a mutiny.
I want Herm Edwards gone.

Players don't believe in him anymore.
They're calling him out in plain view. To the media week in and week out.

Insn't this what happened in StL after DV went 9-23 with the Rams in '97-98? The GM force fed him Mike Martz and *voila!* they win the SB...

Wasn't there a similar threat of mutiny in StL?

Baby Lee
11-19-2007, 06:45 PM
Good points, Mr. Baby Lee. I take it, then, you approve of pocketing the three timeouts at half time?
First off, again, first start, on the road, against the Colts.
Any other situation I might have been less sanguine.
Second off, recall what St. Favrah pulled off at the end of the first half in our previous meeting, one play letting us back into a game we had no business being in. Anyone else BUT Favrah, and that would have been the death knell for them. If it had been Brodie, we wouldn't be so all high and confident in him right about now.


I think this whole disconnect is some people are looking at what this game tells us about the Herm era [ie, in light of the past], and I'm looking at this in terms of what it tells us about the Brodie era [ie, what's the future].

For me, this is a one-off game. Again, if we're exhibiting these same tendencies when Brodie's seasoned and the O-line is revamped, It'll be a different situation and I'll have a different opinion.

Everyone's bitching 'it's the Broncos game all over again.' Well good, we went on a run of pretty decent FB after the Bronco's game, once Huard proved his bones while leashed.

Phobia
11-19-2007, 06:58 PM
I actually liked this column. I remember all too well Trent Green and Dick Vermeil waltzing off the field after a heartbreaking loss with mile-wide grins on their faces as they greeted their opponent and offered congratulations. Drove me absolutely crazy. What kind of competitor does that? Certainly a better man than I. I want somebody who is pissed in defeat and wants to do better next time. I want a guy who stews on a loss and hurts for it. That shows me desire and a will to win, not just being content collecting a fat paycheck.

headsnap
11-19-2007, 07:08 PM
I am tired of the 'inept play calling' mantra.


conservative and predictable do not necessarily have to go hand in hand... ;)

Calcountry
11-19-2007, 07:08 PM
I am tired of the 'inept play calling' mantra.
This was Brodie's first start, on the road, against the SB champs.
We want this guy to stay around, and even if we lost yesterday, we played a game that has people saying 'that Brodie guy has a future.' They're saying that even though he had a lot of off throws, especially early, even the ones that were caught, and gave up a sack/fumble.
Herm's a big boy, he can take people pulling out their hair for a conservative gameplan. But in so doing, he's got the D playing the best they have in a decade, the O chomping at the bit, and the newbie QB looking like a very promising prospect. If we got all that at the cost of one road game, I'll take it every time.

If sometime down the line, we've got a revamped O-line, and capable backs and receivers around him, and Brodie's still looking like he's started off, and we're STILL in super conservative mode, I'll listen to these complaints and likely join in.

But after 1 game?? After Brodie's FIRST game? Eff that.Dude, I appreciate what you are saying, but you have to admit that it is pretty damn pathetic when flunky announcers, that I have never heard of say stuff like, "The Chiefs should probably think about doing something other than run on first down."

Calcountry
11-19-2007, 07:13 PM
Granted it was Brodies first start, and he looked very promising. Any Chiefs fan should be excited about his future.
However, this was not Herm's first game. He has shown a pattern of continually withdrawing into a more conservative mode. That is his answer to everything.

False Start-quit shifting
Interception-check down passes predominately
Kick off/Punt return fumble-hold on with both hands and take it on the 20

Those things were all key parts to having the #1 offense. I don't like the pattern, if one of our RBs fumbles he may just have them start kneeling down.
Seriously, I think this is Tony Gs frustration as well. Herm needs to find someone that can "coach up" the offense instead of stripping it down.Going for a first down on 3rd and 8, now THAT is risky. Much better to throw a safe pass in front of the first down marker, and let our guy shake a tackle rather than risk throwing it downfield for that first.

That way, if we don't make it, we can punt, pin them down deep with a long LONG field to play on. Help the Defense stop them. That's the path to winning.


Howard Cosell, rest his soul, coined a perfect phrase for this Herman Edwards bullshit. "Playing not to lose". The problem is that then, as is now, you usually do.

Mr. Laz
11-19-2007, 07:16 PM
Coming close and just missing the victory would be enough for some. Dare say, it may have been enough for many on this team say early last year.
implying that it was not this way under the last head coach :hmmm:

but of course Gretz didn't report that under the previous head coach being the big fat pussy that he is.

LOCOChief
11-19-2007, 07:39 PM
If I was Croyle, especially now since they can't or shouldn't go back to Hutard because he's played well enough to stay the starter, is if a play was called down to the huddle and if I didn't like it, I'd say **** it and run something that exceeds the first down marker.

You've got to be kidding, right?
The playcalling sucks big time granted, but if we had a team full of players willing to get into their HC or OC's face or their own teammates on offense they might as well scrap everything because you can't win with those kind of guys either IMO.

The Bad Guy
11-19-2007, 07:53 PM
Oh **** off, Gretz, you piece of shit.

That other lockerroom was smothered with injuries to key players. If they would've been healthy they would've wiped us off the field.

Of course.

When the Chiefs play a tough team pretty well, there's some variable as to why they did.

Some of you need a vacation from football.

cdcox
11-19-2007, 07:59 PM
Chiefs won the TOP battle 32:23 to 27:37. Going into the final drive KC had 12 minute advantage.

1) How many points do you get for that?

2) Who held the ball for the 7 most important minutes of the game?

CoMoChief
11-19-2007, 08:01 PM
You've got to be kidding, right?
The playcalling sucks big time granted, but if we had a team full of players willing to get into their HC or OC's face or their own teammates on offense they might as well scrap everything because you can't win with those kind of guys either IMO.
When it's this bad and when the players know its bad, you have to say something. These guys have played football their entire lives, it's not like they don't know what type of plays should be ran in certain situations.

KCJohnny
11-19-2007, 08:09 PM
1) How many points do you get for that?

2) Who held the ball for the 7 most important minutes of the game?

You took my reply out of contest. I was replying to this:

Quote: <HR SIZE=1>Originally Posted by StcChief
inept play calling, too many 3- outs. D on field too much. <HR SIZE=1>
Chiefs won the TOP battle 32:23 to 27:37. Going into the final drive KC had 12 minute advantage.