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View Full Version : Wow. Was he in the wrong?


MIAdragon
11-21-2007, 10:02 AM
Not sure if this is a re-post or not.

Widow of suspected burglar speaks about her husband's death.


Listen to the 911 audio tape.
:hmmm: (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5766455)

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5766455

Saulbadguy
11-21-2007, 10:06 AM
Thieves are worthy of death. Joe Horn FTW!

Cochise
11-21-2007, 10:09 AM
I'm not saying it was right to shoot him, but this guy has prior felonies, is on parole, and was in the process of burglarizing a house. He is obviously not making any effort to keep himself out of trouble. You'd think people would realize that burglary is a good way to get yourself shot.

Not saying the neighbor should have done it, but I don't have any sympathy for a guy who sounds like he might have been a career criminal.

|Zach|
11-21-2007, 10:09 AM
Tough to get worked up about this. That guy was way to eager too shoot someone but...

Don't steal things.

Saulbadguy
11-21-2007, 10:11 AM
This Joe Horn guy is a pretty big dumbass too, though.

Fishpicker
11-21-2007, 10:13 AM
Horn shot too quick but was not wrong for confronting the burglars.

|Zach|
11-21-2007, 10:15 AM
This Joe Horn guy is a pretty big dumbass too, though.
Pretty much.

chasedude
11-21-2007, 10:17 AM
It's Texas and they have the "Castle Doctrine" down there. It says he can take lethal force to protect his and his neighbors property. I guess this happened elsewhere before and there was a prosecution. The jury found him not guilty, pretty much let him off.

Someone has to stand up to thugs!

John_Wayne
11-21-2007, 10:18 AM
Joe Horn should be made Mayor of that town. We need more patriotic Americans like that. Burglaries and the crime rate would plumet.

chasedude
11-21-2007, 10:19 AM
I'm not saying it was right to shoot him, but this guy has prior felonies, is on parole, and was in the process of burglarizing a house. He is obviously not making any effort to keep himself out of trouble. You'd think people would realize that burglary is a good way to get yourself shot.

Not saying the neighbor should have done it, but I don't have any sympathy for a guy who sounds like he might have been a career criminal.

He saved the Judicial system money on more prosecution and jailing of these thiefs.

Cochise
11-21-2007, 10:21 AM
Horn shot too quick but was not wrong for confronting the burglars.

If they were really 15 feet away, and they were two men in their 20s and he was one older guy, in his 60s... I can't say how I would have reacted in that situation. They surely didn't get closer to him because they were supplicating and apologizing. He may have had a legitimate fear of life and limb.

|Zach|
11-21-2007, 10:22 AM
Joe Horn should be made Mayor of that town. We need more patriotic Americans like that. Burglaries and the crime rate would plumet.
Too bad you wouldn't have the grapes to actually get that gun and do anything like this.

TrebMaxx
11-21-2007, 10:23 AM
They got what they deserved. I have no sympathy for the likes of those two. Granted, Joe should of just stayed in his house and notified the police.

Simplex3
11-21-2007, 10:30 AM
Hell, you're telling me the cops can't manage to get a car to a house in 7 minutes? Screw them then. If they can't get this crap taken care of then why shouldn't the neighbors? Don't like the way it was handled? Get there sooner.

Simplex3
11-21-2007, 10:32 AM
They got what they deserved. I have no sympathy for the likes of those two. Granted, Joe should of just stayed in his house and notified the police.
He waited in his house for the cops to show for more than five minutes. The thieves were leaving that house and going God only knows where to do who knows what.

Saulbadguy
11-21-2007, 10:33 AM
He waited in his house for the cops to show for more than five minutes. The thieves were leaving that house and going God only knows where to do who knows what.
Rob the next house, probably.

pr_capone
11-21-2007, 10:36 AM
ZERO sympathy for the guy who died... plenty though, for the kids he left behind. Can you imagine growing up with the knowledge that your dad died during a home invasion?

As for Mr. Horn.... good on him for having the stones to go out and confront the theives. Property may not be worth taking someones life over but I don't believe it was his intention go go out the door shooting.

You can hear him telling them something to the effect of "Take another step and its your life". The fact that they wound up 15 feet from his front door suggests, though without pics one can not be sure, that they were coming towards him. Not really the smartest thing to do when you have the barrel of a shotty pointed at you.

|Zach|
11-21-2007, 10:37 AM
but I don't believe it was his intention go go out the door shooting.


C'mon now...

Cochise
11-21-2007, 10:39 AM
C'mon now...

He called the cops, they could have arrived any moment. I think, he was probably going to leave it alone and let the cops catch them in the act, but when they were leaving, he tried to hold them there until the cops showed up.

That makes a lot more sense than "I'ma gon' kill me some burglars"

Simplex3
11-21-2007, 10:42 AM
C'mon now...
Assuming he did, who gives a crap? These were two guys out taking from others. Then someone took from them and now everyone wants to cry about it.

"It" is horrible for the kids and family. What everyone needs to be clear about is what "it" is. "It" is that those two lowlifes were making a living burglarizing people.

pr_capone
11-21-2007, 10:45 AM
He called the cops, they could have arrived any moment. I think, he was probably going to leave it alone and let the cops catch them in the act, but when they were leaving, he tried to hold them there until the cops showed up.

That makes a lot more sense than "I'ma gon' kill me some burglars"

Agreed

Cochise
11-21-2007, 10:46 AM
Assuming he did, who gives a crap? These were two guys out taking from others. Then someone took from them and now everyone wants to cry about it.

"It" is horrible for the kids and family. What everyone needs to be clear about is what "it" is. "It" is that those two lowlifes were making a living burglarizing people.

I don't feel sorry for them because they put themselves in a position for this to happen. And I don't fault the guy for doing it. They created the situation, and they escalated it even when it was apparent they were caught, leading to death.

But still, we can't really act like being shot to death is punishment befitting the crime for burglars or other common thieves. How about just cutting off their hands instead...? :spock:

|Zach|
11-21-2007, 10:47 AM
Like I said. I don't have a problem with this. I also don't think everyone wants to cry about it. Just read this thread.

Having said that...when he set out it seemed obvious what was going to go down. He goes out with a gun...and then he comes back "fearing for his life not knowing what they were going to do."

I hope the family next door enjoys their XBOX 360.

Simplex3
11-21-2007, 10:49 AM
But still, we can't really act like being shot to death is punishment befitting the crime for burglars or other common thieves. How about just cutting off their hands instead...? :spock:
Why not? Might deter some people.

I'd prefer longer prison terms in prisons that suck to be in, but hey, you do what works.

Simplex3
11-21-2007, 10:52 AM
Like I said. I don't have a problem with this. I also don't think everyone wants to cry about it. Just read this thread.

Having said that...when he set out it seemed obvious what was going to go down. He goes out with a gun...and then he comes back "fearing for his life not knowing what they were going to do."

I hope the family next door enjoys their XBOX 360.
I don't think this has anything to do with what was or wasn't in that bag. :shrug:

I think this is a case of "why the hell did it take the cops 5+ minutes to respond to a crime in progress"?

Rain Man
11-21-2007, 10:52 AM
I can't get the audio link, but what's the problem? It looks to me like a couple of criminals got killed in the act of committing a crime. In this case, everybody's a winner:

- Society has two less criminals
- Hopefully the shooter gets a nice reward from the city
- The kids of the criminals will grow up better because their role models won't be criminals
- The criminals themselves are dead, but were pretty much worthless anyway, so their opinion doesn't matter
- The widow of the criminals probably will be able to hook up with another criminal if she wants and have more kids and more government cheese, since that's probably what she wants anyway

Rain Man
11-21-2007, 10:54 AM
I don't feel sorry for them because they put themselves in a position for this to happen. And I don't fault the guy for doing it. They created the situation, and they escalated it even when it was apparent they were caught, leading to death.

But still, we can't really act like being shot to death is punishment befitting the crime for burglars or other common thieves. How about just cutting off their hands instead...? :spock:

I view it as an inherent risk of one's chosen occupation.


If you're a steeplejack, you can fall.
If you're a miner, you can get crushed in a cave-in.
If you're a criminal, you can get killed by one of the good guys.

I see no foul. Keep playing, everyone.

pr_capone
11-21-2007, 10:57 AM
Like I said. I don't have a problem with this. I also don't think everyone wants to cry about it. Just read this thread.

Having said that...when he set out it seemed obvious what was going to go down. He goes out with a gun...and then he comes back "fearing for his life not knowing what they were going to do."

I hope the family next door enjoys their XBOX 360.

Yeah... because we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they did not take things that were essential to the home owners such as meds or cash. Try getting a refill on meds with no insurance or money and se how far that gets you.

Again... we dont know. It could have been an xbox, it could have been food.... does not matter.

Play this scenario in your head. An old man trying to do what he feels is right goes out with his shotty to stop a robbery. He takes the shotty with him because he is an old man and is no match physically to these 2 men.

He warns them to stay put (which he did), they come towards him (which they did I am assuming based on being 15 feet from his door), so he pulls the trigger in self defense.

If he had not warned them to stay put before firing, then I would agree with you.

Inspector
11-21-2007, 11:10 AM
Thanks Mr. Horn. As far as I'm concerned you just saved my house from being robbed and / or one of my kids or grandkids for being killed.

He should have all property taxes eliminated for at least a year. He saved the tax payers the expense of a trail too. Good job!

jettio
11-21-2007, 11:13 AM
This kind of stuff was bound to happen once state legislators decided to get stupid and pass unnecessary laws leading the stupid to believe that they could kill people over property.

According to the 9-1-1 call, the dumb*ss cited a change in the law as a reason for him to kill the burglars.

Now according to the news story, Mr. Horn is crying like a b*tch at his lawyer's office, because he committed premeditated murder and ignored the directions from the 9-1-1 operator to not go outside.

That is premeditated murder, he should be prosecuted and the moron legislators that pandered to the stupid bear some of the culpability.

Iowanian
11-21-2007, 11:14 AM
Help control the prison population....shoot a burglar.

Thats a risk you take when you break into someone's house. Innocent home owners are killed every day by shitbags JUST like these criminals.

mcan
11-21-2007, 11:17 AM
He says to the cop a couple of times that he is willing to kill somebody and wants to shoot. He directly disobeys the dispatcher who tries everything he can to get the guy to do the right thing (which is let the cops deal with these guys). This is exactly why vigilante justice illegal.


Knowing the Chiefsplanet ilk, I had a feeling that everybody here would be praising this guy. So let me ask you... Where do you draw the line? If I see a guy jaywalking, should I be allowed to confront him with a gun to get him to stop? What if it looks like he's coming right at me?! What if a guy is about to drive and it looks to me like he's had too many drinks. Can I get him to make better decisions by pointing my rifle at him? Crap, what's that in his hand?! What if I see two guys getting in a fist fight outside of a bar? Good thing I got my .22 in the trunk. How about a guy who cuts through my yard every day while walking to work? I've told him numerous times to stay off my property. Well, next time he's got another thing coming. Maybe you think what this man did is the absolute minimum that justifies killing somebody...

Iowanian
11-21-2007, 11:20 AM
st Mcan would have gone out and helped them load their loot, and appolgized for the injustice society has placed upon them, causing them to steal.

vigilante justice should be encouraged.

It might discourage carjackings, home invasions, theft, burglary, murder, rape.....

pr_capone
11-21-2007, 11:20 AM
This kind of stuff was bound to happen once state legislators decided to get stupid and pass unnecessary laws leading the stupid to believe that they could kill people over property.

According to the 9-1-1 call, the dumb*ss cited a change in the law as a reason for him to kill the burglars.

Now according to the news story, Mr. Horn is crying like a b*tch at his lawyer's office, because he committed premeditated murder and ignored the directions from the 9-1-1 operator to not go outside.

That is premeditated murder, he should be prosecuted and the moron legislators that pandered to the stupid bear some of the culpability.

LOL

Murder 1? Nope. Manslaughter AT BEST... and I don't think even that would stick. Again.... he warned them to stay put KNOWING police were en route, apparently they came towards him, so he fired.

Also, I was not aware that 911 operators were authority figures whose "orders" HAD to be obeyed. Might be a smart idea to do so.... but they do not have any authority to order anyone to do anything.

Iowanian
11-21-2007, 11:22 AM
People should refrain from stealing property from thsoe who have earned it.....especially from career criminals who are out on parole. If they'd have stopped when they saw him, and submitted, I'll wager they'd have been alive today, awaiting trial, where some lawyer like Jettio would have gotten them off on a technicality and put them back on the streets.

He should get a tax rebate for the savings to the state for the trial and the housing-feeding-storing them in prison.


The police had time to have arrived.


"you're going to get yourself shot". -911 dispatcher

Demonpenz
11-21-2007, 11:26 AM
The shitty thing is alot of times people call the cops they take forever to get there comes show up. no burglers? call our 800 line and file a police report to give to your insurance. peace out

pr_capone
11-21-2007, 11:27 AM
He says to the cop a couple of times that he is willing to kill somebody and wants to shoot. He directly disobeys the dispatcher who tries everything he can to get the guy to do the right thing (which is let the cops deal with these guys). This is exactly why vigilante justice illegal.


Knowing the Chiefsplanet ilk, I had a feeling that everybody here would be praising this guy. So let me ask you... Where do you draw the line? If I see a guy jaywalking, should I be allowed to confront him with a gun to get him to stop? What if it looks like he's coming right at me?! What if a guy is about to drive and it looks to me like he's had too many drinks. Can I get him to make better decisions by pointing my rifle at him? Crap, what's that in his hand?! What if I see two guys getting in a fist fight outside of a bar? Good thing I got my .22 in the trunk. How about a guy who cuts through my yard every day while walking to work? I've told him numerous times to stay off my property. Well, next time he's got another thing coming. Maybe you think what this man did is the absolute minimum that justifies killing somebody...

First... I don't recall him telling the dispacher that he wants to put a cap in someones ass. He said something to the effect of... do you want me to stop them, I have a shotgun.

Again, the dispacher has ZERO authority... so he did not disobey anyone.

The guys were already on their way out and no police in sight. KNOWING the cops were on their way, he goes outside and tells them to stay put.

Tell me... have you ever been burglarized? I have... 4 times. you know how many times the cops were able to get my stuff back? NONE.

Again... not saying that property is worth killing someone over. But due to the fact that he knew the cops were on their way, and he warned them to stop, and they wound up 15 feet from his door... I believe he was fully justified.

Its not like he went screaming out of the house with guns blazing.

As for the rest of it.... you are and idiot. yeah... makes sence to accost someone with a gun for jaywalking. *sigh*

st Mcan would have gone out and helped them load their loot, and appolgized for the injustice society has placed upon them, causing them to steal.


LMFAO

mcan
11-21-2007, 11:28 AM
st Mcan would have gone out and helped them load their loot, and appolgized for the injustice society has placed upon them, causing them to steal.

vigilante justice should be encouraged.

It might discourage carjackings, home invasions, theft, burglary, murder, rape.....


There is no "might" about it. If you want to live in a world where the hammer comes down on petty criminals to the tune of DEATH, then be my guest.

pr_capone
11-21-2007, 11:30 AM
There is no "might" about it. If you want to live in a world where the hammer comes down on petty criminals to the tune of DEATH, then be my guest.

It would have been wrong for the guy to have been waiting at his neighbors window for the guy to come back out of the house, then put 3 rounds of bird shot in his face.

BUT

The guy was 15 feet from his door... after a robbery. Makes sence to protect ones self.

jettio
11-21-2007, 11:34 AM
LOL

Murder 1? Nope. Manslaughter AT BEST... and I don't think even that would stick. Again.... he warned them to stay put KNOWING police were en route, apparently they came towards him, so he fired.

Also, I was not aware that 911 operators were authority figures whose "orders" HAD to be obeyed. Might be a smart idea to do so.... but they do not have any authority to order anyone to do anything.

Guess what? that sh*thead will be spending time in jail.

Maybe you could write him letters letting him know that in spite of the law, you are behind him in every possible way, except of course you will not be serving his sentence for him.

You might think he did great, but I bet if you asked him in between his crying like a b*tch sissy sobs at his lawyer's office, he has already changed his mind.

Iowanian
11-21-2007, 11:34 AM
There is no "might" about it. If you want to live in a world where the hammer comes down on petty criminals to the tune of DEATH, then be my guest.

If you want to live in a world where groups of men, willing to break into your house, in similar situations where people are routinely raped and or murdered every day and assume they're just confused cub scouts....be my guest.

Criminals kill and harm a shitload more American home owners than vica versa every year. Every year.


Fook those theiving shitbags.


For that matter.....Horn didn't know if those 2 had just gutted his neighbor like a fish when they came out.

chasedude
11-21-2007, 11:36 AM
Guess what? that sh*thead will be spending time in jail.

Maybe you could write him letters letting him know that in spite of the law, you are behind him in every possible way, except of course you will not be serving his sentence for him.

You might think he did great, but I bet if you asked him in between his crying like a b*tch sissy sobs at his lawyer's office, he has already changed his mind.

It's Texas.. he won't be seeing any jail time.

Rain Man
11-21-2007, 11:37 AM
It would have been wrong for the guy to have been waiting at his neighbors window for the guy to come back out of the house, then put 3 rounds of bird shot in his face.

BUT

The guy was 15 feet from his door... after a robbery. Makes sence to protect ones self.


It may have been wrong, but it would've still gotten my vote for the weekly prize on America's Funniest Home Videos.

"Hahaha, watch the guy fall back into the doorway when he gets blinded by a shotgun!"

Iowanian
11-21-2007, 11:38 AM
Guess what? that sh*thead will be spending time in jail.

Maybe you could write him letters letting him know that in spite of the law, .


What law did he break in the state of Texas?

Burglars on his neighbors property, who were shot on his own.....




if Brainman would have caught the guy who stole his bike, he'd have duct taped his balls to a can of gas and a tree in his front yard and lit him on fire to discourage future attempts.



its not like tax payers weren't going to be supporting those 2 dead theive's children anyway. What are the odds the guy would have been a major contributor to the child's life anyway?

jettio
11-21-2007, 11:41 AM
It would have been wrong for the guy to have been waiting at his neighbors window for the guy to come back out of the house, then put 3 rounds of bird shot in his face.

BUT

The guy was 15 feet from his door... after a robbery. Makes sence to protect ones self.


Burglars with a bag of loot are not likely to confront a neighbor that catches them. Their decision is whether to drop the bag and flee or to keep the bag and flee.

Mr. Horn will be telling more and more lies about what happened, but the tape and the physical evidence will prove that he killed over property thinking the new law allowed for it, when he had no reason to think that his life was in danger.

MOhillbilly
11-21-2007, 11:42 AM
the right to use deadly force laws are a wonderful thing. after a dog nothing worries thieves like the sound of a pump action.

Iowanian
11-21-2007, 11:45 AM
Its too bad the home owners hadn't adopted some of Michael Vick's fighting dogs.....and they were still chewing on the leg bones of those crooks.

Iowanian
11-21-2007, 11:47 AM
On the 911 tape, the dispatcher tells him to stay inside or HE would get shot.


not surprised a greasy lawyer would try to make the Convicts the victims again.


Burglars with a bag of loot are not likely to confront a neighbor that catches them. Their decision is whether to drop the bag and flee or to keep the bag and flee.

Mr. Horn will be telling more and more lies about what happened, but the tape and the physical evidence will prove that he killed over property thinking the new law allowed for it, when he had no reason to think that his life was in danger.

Radar Chief
11-21-2007, 11:48 AM
On the 911 tape, the dispatcher tells him to stay inside or HE would get shot.


not surprised a greasy lawyer would try to make the Convicts the victims again.

Apparently for him there never comes a point in time where the criminals are responsible for their own actions.

mcan
11-21-2007, 11:52 AM
-I've got a shotgun, do you want me to stop 'em?

-I'm not gonna let 'em go, I'm not gonna let 'em get away with this.

-If I go out the house I'm taking my shotgun with me. I am NOT letting them get away with this... I can't take a chance on getting killed over there. I'm gonna shoot. I'm gonna shoot.

-I don't want to (shoot), but if I go out there, you know to see what the hell is going on, I mean what choice am I gonna have?

-I'm aware of that, but I've got a right to protect myself too sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it. I have a right to protect myself. And the shotgun is a legal weapon, it's not an illegal weapon.

-He's coming out the window right now, I gotta go buddy. I'm sorry, but he's coming out the window.

-They stole something, I'm sorry, but I ain't letting em get away with this sh!t, they stole something. They got a bag of something. I'm DOING it. I'm sorry, this ain't right buddy.

-You want to make a bet! I'm gonna kill em. They're getting away! God Damnit. They got a bag of loot.

-I'm going outside, I'll find out (which way they went). Here it goes buddy. You hear that shotgun clickin' and I'm going.

(door opens) (you can hear something in the background) NO! You're dead! (two shotgun blasts the silence then another blast).

Rain Man
11-21-2007, 11:54 AM
Burglars with a bag of loot are not likely to confront a neighbor that catches them. Their decision is whether to drop the bag and flee or to keep the bag and flee.

Mr. Horn will be telling more and more lies about what happened, but the tape and the physical evidence will prove that he killed over property thinking the new law allowed for it, when he had no reason to think that his life was in danger.

That's the problem with these laws. Even if his life wasn't in danger at the moment because he had the luxury of a shotgun and not being surprised, the criminals would've likely returned to the same area in the future and could've caught him or another innocent person by surprise. While he may be in legal trouble, from a logical perspective I think it was reasonable that he eliminated the danger proactively.

I hope the guy who stole my bike got hit by a car and died horrifically in great, great pain lodged in the windshield. Yeah, it was just a bike and it's "just property", but that person is "just a piece of worthless subhuman excrement". What if my wife had walked out when he was inside my garage? What if he had clubbed me over the head or stabbed me when I walked in? I'm not expecting to have to confront a criminal when I walk into my yard. I expect them to be in jail or dead.

jettio
11-21-2007, 11:57 AM
What law did he break in the state of Texas?

Burglars on his neighbors property, who were shot on his own.....




if Brainman would have caught the guy who stole his bike, he'd have duct taped his balls to a can of gas and a tree in his front yard and lit him on fire to discourage future attempts.



its not like tax payers weren't going to be supporting those 2 dead theive's children anyway. What are the odds the guy would have been a major contributor to the child's life anyway?

Google the texas castle doctrine law and post what you find. I don't think you will find anything about defending against a property crime from an unoccupied dwelling. Even in Texas, you are not allowed to tell 9-1-1 operators that you plan on killing burglars if those burglars make it outside before the police show up.

He will be facing homicide charges.

smittysbar
11-21-2007, 11:57 AM
This kind of stuff was bound to happen once state legislators decided to get stupid and pass unnecessary laws leading the stupid to believe that they could kill people over property.

According to the 9-1-1 call, the dumb*ss cited a change in the law as a reason for him to kill the burglars.

Now according to the news story, Mr. Horn is crying like a b*tch at his lawyer's office, because he committed premeditated murder and ignored the directions from the 9-1-1 operator to not go outside.

That is premeditated murder, he should be prosecuted and the moron legislators that pandered to the stupid bear some of the culpability.

Go hug a tree :deevee:

Saulbadguy
11-21-2007, 12:00 PM
Here are my thoughts:

1. I'm glad the thieves are dead. A man that will break in to another mans house, especially one he does not know, is one of the lowest forms of human life there is.

2. We don't know whether not Mr. Horn acted in self defense. Was it right for him to shoot? Who knows. If the thieves were approaching him on his property - YES, it was ok to shoot them. If the thieves were running away, NO, it was not okay to shoot them. In this case, I tend to think that the thieves were heading to the "next house" and were about to enter Mr Horns house when he shot them. Again, JMO.

3. This can not be a universal law - it can't be held up for the entire population. It's entirely obvious Mr. Horn is a redneck dumbass, and he WANTED to use his weapon. I think he should be punished to an extent, but not for murder, or even manslaughter. Maybe un-lawfully expelling his firearm within city limits? He is not a hero in my eyes, just another redneck moron who wants to play cowboy. Then again, i'm glad those thieves are dead, too. I guess it all sorts itself out in the end.

mcan
11-21-2007, 12:00 PM
If you want to live in a world where groups of men, willing to break into your house, in similar situations where people are routinely raped and or murdered every day and assume they're just confused cub scouts....be my guest.

Criminals kill and harm a shitload more American home owners than vica versa every year. Every year.


Fook those theiving shitbags.


For that matter.....Horn didn't know if those 2 had just gutted his neighbor like a fish when they came out.


He doesn't need to know that. The cops are on their way. It would be one thing if he had tried to make a citizens' arrest or tried to apprehend the guys. But instead he went out of his house with the intent on KILLING two people that he wanted to punish. He says so flat out. And at no point does he say anything like "get on the ground" or "The police are coming" or "freeze." He goes outside and someobody else says something (presumably the guys who got shot) who are running away from the scene (through his yard apparently). He replies, "NO, YOU'RE DEAD." And then shoots at them both.

chasedude
11-21-2007, 12:00 PM
Google the texas castle doctrine law and post what you find. I don't think you will find anything about defending against a property crime from an unoccupied dwelling. Even in Texas, you are not allowed to tell 9-1-1 operators that you plan on killing burglars if those burglars make it outside before the police show up.

He will be facing homicide charges.

A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal concept derived from English Common Law, which designates one's place of residence (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as one's car or place of work) as a place in which one enjoys protection from illegal trespassing and violent attack. It then goes on to give a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place (his/her "castle"), and/or any other innocent persons legally inside it, from violent attack or an intrusion which may lead to violent attack. Within the legal paradigm, therefore, it functions as a type of justifiable homicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

TinyEvel
11-21-2007, 12:01 PM
I blame video games.

mcan
11-21-2007, 12:08 PM
There was no intent to Kill, I never heard him say "I'm gonna kill you".


He tells the dispatcher several times that he will shoot them. Then he says flat out: "I'm going to kill them."

Then he goes outside and his first words are "NO! You're dead!"

In fact, he says something along the lines of "I'm going to kill these guys" as much as he says anything else. There is nothing vague about his intentions. He states them clearly, over and over again. He intends to stop these guys with lethal force.

chasedude
11-21-2007, 12:11 PM
He tells the dispatcher several times that he will shoot them. Then he says flat out: "I'm going to kill them."

Then he goes outside and his first words are "NO! You're dead!"

In fact, he says something along the lines of "I'm going to kill these guys" as much as he says anything else. There is nothing vague about his intentions. He states them clearly, over and over again. He intends to stop these guys with lethal force.

As you can see I deleted that post and listed "nevermind" as the reason. I listened to the tapes a little closer and did hear him use that term.

That still doesn't subside the fact he had the right to do what he did.

mcan
11-21-2007, 12:13 PM
As you can see I deleted that post and listed "nevermind" as the reason. I listened to the tapes a little closer and did hear him use that term.

That still doesn't subside the fact he had the right to do what he did.


If that's true, that's some scary law they got down there. I can just go outside with a shotgun and purposefully kill anybody that has commited any type of petty crime?

Rain Man
11-21-2007, 12:14 PM
If that's true, that's some scary law they got down there. I can just go outside with a shotgun and purposefully kill anybody that has commited any type of petty crime?

It's Texas.

chasedude
11-21-2007, 12:14 PM
If that's true, that's some scary law they got down there. I can just go outside with a shotgun and purposefully kill anybody that has commited any type of petty crime?

Check out the wikipedia link I posted. Very informative on how that law is, very interesting read

KC Dan
11-21-2007, 12:14 PM
If that's true, that's some scary law they got down there. I can just go outside with a shotgun and purposefully kill anybody that has commited any type of petty crime?
So Home Invasion and Burglary are petty crimes?

mcan
11-21-2007, 12:25 PM
So Home Invasion and Burglary are petty crimes?


I'm probably showing my ignorance of the law when it comes to terms like "petty." Petty theft is probably from a store or something. Sorry about the confusion. Doesn't change this guys' motives or make what he did right. Wonder if the guy would have been so pissed off if the perps were white teenagers.

And "NO, You're Dead!" is some bone chilling, macabre sh!t to be yelling out when you kill someone in cold blood. Different circumstances, but it reminds me of that kid at Columbine who ducked under the desk and said "boo!" before he shot up that kid. Obviously the kids shot at school are completely innocent and these guys were criminals, but the mentality is the same. These are deranged shooters who couldn't wait to live the glory of shooting someone they thought deserved to die.

jettio
11-21-2007, 12:31 PM
Apparently for him there never comes a point in time where the criminals are responsible for their own actions.

I took your dumb*ss off of ignore just in time for you to agree with me.

The criminal, Mr. "Crying like a b*tch at his lawyer's office" Horn, should be held responsible for breaking the law.

I have not posted anything in support of burglary.

I recently confronted two punks who I suspected of stealing a lawnmower from a neighbor. I was not sure if the lawnmower was theirs or not, but I told them I was calling the police if they did not return it.

We called the police and gave a good description. I considered getting a baseball bat and beating the sh*t out of them, but if I did, I would have done that for the hell of being mad and I would not have pretended that it was lawful.

I later confirmed that they did steal the lawnmower and they did get away, if I see those two again, I might get mad enough to try to whup'em, but I would not pretend that the law allowed it.

KC Dan
11-21-2007, 12:31 PM
I'm probably showing my ignorance of the law when it comes to terms like "petty."
These are deranged shooters who couldn't wait to live the glory of shooting someone they thought deserved to die.
If they had found two bodies in the house after the fact, I wonder if those stating it was not justified would still think the same. Don't know or really care at this point as I would think that redneck shooter man would be sent to prison for manslaughter or murder - whatever in this case. But, invading someones' home is not petty and the burglary is a felony. Do I have a problem with the guy dropping them, not really as I would hope that one of my neighbors would do the same.

It's a real issue today in this country that there is no real deterrent from this type of crime with home invasions on a drastic rise. Do I think that the two guys deserved death - of course not. But, I doubt there will be many home breakins in this neighborhood any time soon.

jettio
11-21-2007, 12:46 PM
Check out the wikipedia link I posted. Very informative on how that law is, very interesting read

Read the Texas Penal Code provisions. The new law that went into effect September 1, 2007, does not justify the use of deadly force against burglars of a neighbor's unoccupied dwelling.

The law before September 1, 2007, was fine. But when dumb*ss legislators pass laws for publicity instead of need, Dingbats like Mr. Horn are bound to think he has a license to hunt humans.

Well, Mr. Horn bagged two over the limit.

KC Dan
11-21-2007, 12:48 PM
Well, Mr. Horn bagged two over the limit.
hehehe, that's good. But, at least they won't be breaking into someone else's castle. The next time they could have walked in on someone there and who knows what could have happened. If Mr. Horn is found in court to have done the crime - he must do the time. But, good for him.

chasedude
11-21-2007, 12:53 PM
Read the Texas Penal Code provisions. The new law that went into effect September 1, 2007, does not justify the use of deadly force against burglars of a neighbor's unoccupied dwelling.

The law before September 1, 2007, was fine. But when dumb*ss legislators pass laws for publicity instead of need, Dingbats like Mr. Horn are bound to think he has a license to hunt humans.

Well, Mr. Horn bagged two over the limit.

So you're saying that if it was his own property you'd have no problem with this at all?

Lzen
11-21-2007, 12:58 PM
There is no "might" about it. If you want to live in a world where the hammer comes down on petty criminals to the tune of DEATH, then be my guest.


I really don't get this bleeding heart BS mindset. Do you really think the guy is simply a petty criminal? What if he went on to home invasions and started killing/raping/etc. people? Did Horn know whether or not these guys were violent criminals? Does burglary justify death? No. But the criminal put himself into the situation. The responsibility starts there. Also, your lame attempt at comparing jaywalking to burglary is idiotic.

Lzen
11-21-2007, 01:02 PM
not surprised a greasy lawyer would try to make the Convicts the victims again.

Exactly. That's what is wrong with this country. Shitbag lawyers like this that try to make the criminals the victims. 4321

chasedude
11-21-2007, 01:05 PM
Exactly. That's what is wrong with this country. Shitbag lawyers like this that try to make the criminals the victims. 4321

I'm sure the victim's families are getting bombarded with ambulance chaser calls about wrongful death suits!

Iowanian
11-21-2007, 01:05 PM
If that's true, that's some scary law they got down there. I can just go outside with a shotgun and purposefully kill anybody that has commited any type of petty crime?


You wouldn't because you're a liberal twunt who thinks these scoundrels are always the victims. I can't think of a time when mcan didn't side with the poor misunderstood child molester, executed murderer et al.


I'll give the dumbass redneck the benefit of the doubt of being fired up by adrelaline and fear.

I can't think of a situation where I'll ever side with someone who is breaking into someone else's home.

If someone enters your home in these situations, you HAVE to assume they have the worst of intentions. People of morals don't invade other person's home.

Radar Chief
11-21-2007, 01:08 PM
I took your dumb*ss off of ignore just in time for you to agree with me.

I already knew you were too much of a pussy to handle opinions counter to what you want to believe, but I suppose I should thank you for admitting as much.
Interesting side note though, you’re calling this guy a “criminal” right? What ever happened to that whole “innocent until proven guilty” thing? Is that solely reserved for burglars?

I have not posted anything in support of burglary.

No, you’re just putting all blame on the guy defending property, possibly his life, without mention that if the buglars hadn’t been piece of shit thieves they might not’ve found themselves in the situation to begin with.

I recently confronted two punks who I suspected of stealing a lawnmower from a neighbor. I was not sure if the lawnmower was theirs or not, but I told them I was calling the police if they did not return it.

We called the police and gave a good description. I considered getting a baseball bat and beating the sh*t out of them, but if I did, I would have done that for the hell of being mad and I would not have pretended that it was lawful.

I later confirmed that they did steal the lawnmower and they did get away, if I see those two again, I might get mad enough to try to whup'em, but I would not pretend that the law allowed it.

Good for you. Sounds like you did, mostly, the right thing. Surprising actually, some of your brother must be rubbing off on you.

jettio
11-21-2007, 01:14 PM
So you're saying that if it was his own property you'd have no problem with this at all?

Depends on the situation. There are more variables to consider. It is not easy to imagine a situation where the guy makes a 9-1-1 call when he is at home during a home invasion, but is not in any real danger.

I don't think the new law was necessary because people already had a right to defend themselves and I do not believe that there were any homeowners charged with crimes for use of force against an intruder of an occupied dwelling.

A duly enacted law is the law, and the law itself is not bad per se. But, it was an unnecessary change to the law that got a lot of publicity and such loud and unnecessary changes to the law were bound to trip up the Mr. "Crying like a b*tch at his lawyer's office because he did not mean to do it" Horn demographic and make them think they could hunt criminals.

jettio
11-21-2007, 01:17 PM
I already knew you were too much of a pussy to handle opinions counter to what you want to believe, but I suppose I should thank you for admitting as much.
Interesting side note though, you’re calling this guy a “criminal” right? What ever happened to that whole “innocent until proven guilty” thing? Is that solely reserved for burglars?



No, you’re just putting all blame on the guy defending property, possibly his life, without mention that if the buglars hadn’t been piece of shit thieves they might not’ve found themselves in the situation to begin with.



Good for you. Sounds like you did, mostly, the right thing. Surprising actually, some of your brother must be rubbing off on you.


:homer: I could never stay mad at you.

I was surprised to find you on the ignore list. I think it was after you accidentally posted something off your Donald Rumsfeld fanzine onto the DC forum.

chasedude
11-21-2007, 01:26 PM
Depends on the situation. There are more variables to consider. It is not easy to imagine a situation where the guy makes a 9-1-1 call when he is at home during a home invasion, but is not in any real danger.

I don't think the new law was necessary because people already had a right to defend themselves and I do not believe that there were any homeowners charged with crimes for use of force against an intruder of an occupied dwelling.

A duly enacted law is the law, and the law itself is not bad per se. But, it was an unnecessary change to the law that got a lot of publicity and such loud and unnecessary changes to the law were bound to trip up the Mr. "Crying like a b*tch at his lawyer's office because he did not mean to do it" Horn demographic and make them think they could hunt criminals.

I have a 12 gauge in my closet. If someone breaks into my home I will consider myself in REAL DANGER.

I just don't understand how some laws get passed anyway esp if they're stupid

Here's some stupid Texas laws: http://www.ahajokes.com/laws043.html

Radar Chief
11-21-2007, 01:26 PM
:homer: I could never stay mad at you.

I was surprised to find you on the ignore list. I think it was after you accidentally posted something off your Donald Rumsfeld fanzine onto the DC forum.

:spock: Sure you’ve got the right guy? :shrug:
Not like I give much of a chit about Rumsfeld one way or another.

mcan
11-21-2007, 03:50 PM
You wouldn't because you're a liberal twunt who thinks these scoundrels are always the victims. I can't think of a time when mcan didn't side with the poor misunderstood child molester, executed murderer et al.


I'll give the dumbass redneck the benefit of the doubt of being fired up by adrelaline and fear.

I can't think of a situation where I'll ever side with someone who is breaking into someone else's home.

If someone enters your home in these situations, you HAVE to assume they have the worst of intentions. People of morals don't invade other person's home.


Holy sh!t, I just got told! Please allow me to defend myself:

1) I'm not even a liberal. I consider myself a moderate that believes in individual freedoms. The more ability a nation gets to take care of its people, the more that nation should take care of its people. In that way, I suppose I have some socialist tendencies. But I feel like the government shouldn't step into other peoples' business any more than it absolutley has to. I believe in equal rights for all, but I'm against any kind of affirmative action in the private sector. I believe that all violent crimes are "hate crimes" and I'm very sensitive to anything that smacks of reverse racism. In fact, I don't like that term. Racism is what it is no matter the color of your skin. I also believe that people are WAY too sensitive about everything today. I believe you have to TAKE offense, as it can not be GIVEN. I also believe that those freedoms we give willingly to people we agree with are the same freedoms we must be obligated to give those that we hate.

2) As for me supporting child molestation, I believe you're EXTREMELY mistaken and frankly, you're an asshole for saying so. I'm not denying that I have had many a heated discussion about sex on this forum. The biggest one being the Dakota Fanning debate. I got chewed out for saying that people should see the movie before they demonize the girls' parents and the director. And that calling a movie "child porn" before it's even released is short sighted to say the least. If that makes me a child molestor, than I'm EXTREMELY FUC#ING HAPPY YOU'RE NOT HOLDING A GUN TO MY HEAD! Since I now know your opinions about vigilante justice.

3) I agree, people with morals don't break into other peoples' homes. I'll also state that people of morals don't usually admit to wanting to kill somebody over and over and then go and shoot them.

Tribal Warfare
11-21-2007, 03:54 PM
I wonder if this guy likes the new size servings of Jimmy Dean sausage

MIAdragon
11-21-2007, 04:00 PM
I wonder if this guy likes the new size servings of Jimmy Dean sausage

http://www.snapoffracing.com/forums/images/smilies/sexsmilies/idb8.gif

tooge
11-21-2007, 04:17 PM
This kind of stuff was bound to happen once state legislators decided to get stupid and pass unnecessary laws leading the stupid to believe that they could kill people over property.

According to the 9-1-1 call, the dumb*ss cited a change in the law as a reason for him to kill the burglars.

Now according to the news story, Mr. Horn is crying like a b*tch at his lawyer's office, because he committed premeditated murder and ignored the directions from the 9-1-1 operator to not go outside.

That is premeditated murder, he should be prosecuted and the moron legislators that pandered to the stupid bear some of the culpability.
Opinions like this make me want to shoot someone. C'mon. I would have done the same thing as Mr. Horn and slept just fine that night. these two losers were stealing from someone elses home. Fuk em. what if there were a small child asleep in the next house they rob. How does that kid fare? Kill all these rotten bastards that think they can take what others earn without asking. If more people were like Mr. Horn, we wouldn't have overpopulated prisons and repeat offenders. this outcome is exactly what should happen!

Bump
11-21-2007, 04:31 PM
well I'm relieved that that Mr. Horn killed one of them, too bad he couldn't get the other one. I hope Joe Horn doesn't get in too much trouble or any for that matter. Something needs to happen with all of these low-life criminals that damage this society.

jettio
11-21-2007, 04:36 PM
Opinions like this make me want to shoot someone. C'mon. I would have done the same thing as Mr. Horn and slept just fine that night. these two losers were stealing from someone elses home. Fuk em. what if there were a small child asleep in the next house they rob. How does that kid fare? Kill all these rotten bastards that think they can take what others earn without asking. If more people were like Mr. Horn, we wouldn't have overpopulated prisons and repeat offenders. this outcome is exactly what should happen!

The outcome is that Mr. Horn's got good reason to be crying like a b*tch at his lawyer's office. He will be charged, prosecuted and probably cop a plea to a criminal homicide charge.

He will also likely be a party to a wrongful death civil suit where, if he has homeowner's liabilty insurance, the insurance company will be trying to avoid coverage because he committed an intentional criminal act. They might also argue that he shot from his property at the two burglars when those two were not on his property, which is probably true.

Mr. Horn f*cked his own life up, by being stupid enough to think like you. You ought to go ahead and follow in his footsteps. It really is not impossible for you to find a burglary suspect and for you to do the same heroic thing as Mr. Horn. Go ahead and make your day.

jettio
11-21-2007, 04:40 PM
:spock: Sure you’ve got the right guy? :shrug:
Not like I give much of a chit about Rumsfeld one way or another.

If I posted as much stupid sh*t in support of Stooges-Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld as you have I would also pretend to have forgotten it by now.

Uncle_Ted
11-21-2007, 04:58 PM
Obviously this dumbass has never seen Southpark ... otherwise he'd know that all you have to do is yell "they're heading right for us!" and then it's a-ok to start blasting.

The issue that people are skirting is that when an authority figure gives people permission to do bad things to other people, there's a substantial percentage who will take every opportunity to do it unless they are tightly controlled. It's the reason why police-related shootings are tightly investigated ... police have the right to use deadly force, so there has to be strict oversight.

Cases like this are the reason why immunity statutes are a bad idea. By having prosecutors and juries ultimately decide if a shooting is justified, you look at the totality of the facts to determine whether or not a shooter was acting reasonably. Otherwise dumbasses like this guy will think they have carte blanche to start executing people for crimes against someone else's property.

All that said, when all the facts come out this shooting might have been justifiable self-defense ... but automatically deciding the issue just because the burglars were "bad guys" isn't a workable legal system.

Buck
11-21-2007, 06:54 PM
**** no he wasn't in the right. Dumb redneck piece of shit.

damaticous
11-21-2007, 07:07 PM
The strong will survive.

If you're stupid enough to keep getting into trouble you're stupid enough to suffer the consequences...if he's stupid enough to rob a house while still on parole/probation then he deserves what is coming to him. Bumber deal for his wife and kid that have to suffer, but the wife is the one who choose to marry and have a kid with the guy. So I would say that her choice wasn't that bright either...bumber deal that she has to live with her unwise choice. Hopefully she will learn from this and start making better choices for herself.

Easy 6
11-21-2007, 07:23 PM
I view it as an inherent risk of one's chosen occupation.


Thread over.

Good riddance ya f&cking thief.

Frazod
11-21-2007, 07:33 PM
One less thieving scumbag in the world. You should be able to shoot them for sport. God knows they enjoy shooting law-abiding citizens for sport. Should Horn have known better than to do this? Sure, in this pussy-whipped day and age, absolutely. But IMO, the only thing he did wrong was telegraph his intentions to the f#cking police (who, of course, would NOT have showed up in time to stop the thieves). He should have just popped the f#ckers and said they were coming after him.

Figures mcant would lead the :deevee: brigade. Head on over to mcant's house and steal all his shit - he'll help you carry it out to your car, tell you its not your fault, and call you bro. :shake:

MIAdragon
11-21-2007, 07:35 PM
[QUOTE=frazod]You should be able to shoot them for sport. QUOTE]

LMAO

CHIEF4EVER
11-21-2007, 08:26 PM
I have just been reminded what it is about whiny ass weak tea sucking commie shitbags that I don't like. Jettio has his panties in a bunch because someone defended himself with a gun. Jettio is one of those ultra liberal pissants who HATES the second Amendment but claims to not have a problem with enacted laws.

The guy said "NO, you're dead.". That would indicate a response to something like "You are dead old man". The guy defended his life which is perfectly legal (not to mention justifiable considering he was outnumbered 2-1 by men 40 years his junior and obviously not of the best moral fibre). Keep making victims of the perps "counselor".

Easy 6
11-21-2007, 08:41 PM
This reminds me of a story i read no more than a few days ago, i believe it was in California...north of Frisco, where 3 men broke into a home containing a man, his wife & her son.

They beat the son with a baseball bat so bad that he is now brain damaged & in a special care home, unable to feed himself. At some point the homeowner managed to get ahold of his gun & kill 2 of the perps as the other one ran. They didnt have their backs to him or anything of the sort, they were still in the act.

So what happens???...the leader of the NAACP in Frisco decries this terrible action..."these "boys" didnt deserve to die like that" & the mother of one is up in arms about it with the press.

Oh those poor, poor "boys"...out robbing people & nearly beating one to death. Am i really supposed to feel bad here???...F&CK those MOTHERF&CKERS...play with matches...get burned.

MIAdragon
11-21-2007, 08:44 PM
This reminds me of a story i read no more than a few days ago, i believe it was in California...north of Frisco, where 3 men broke into a home containing a man, his wife & her son.

They beat the son with a baseball bat so bad that he is now brain damaged & in a special care home, unable to feed himself. At some point the homeowner managed to get ahold of his gun & kill 2 of the perps as the other one ran. They didnt have their backs to him or anything of the sort, they were still in the act.

So what happens???...the leader of the NAACP in Frisco decries this terrible action..."these "boys" didnt deserve to die like that" & the mother of one is up in arms about it with the press.

Oh those poor, poor "boys"...out robbing people & nearly beating one to death. Am i really supposed to feel bad here???...F&CK those MOTHERF&CKERS...play with matches...get burned.

The NAACP is such a joke.

BWillie
11-21-2007, 08:59 PM
Have you listened to this video? I was listening to this on CNN and it is ridiculous. I honestly think this guy should get AT LEAST the most severe manslaughter chargers. He had intent to kill these guys. He was on the phone with 911, they told him repeatedly to not go out. Yet he's like no this isn't right. He even says he IS GOING to kill them. He tells the 911 he has a shotgun and is going to shoot both of them. After 911 tells him not to go out there about FIFTY times, he goes out there and says..

"If you move you are dead"

They apparently move and he shoots them.

What a ****ing hillbilly. Not saying these guys were in the right, but come one, shooting them to kill? They were not trying to inflict physical harm on anybody. This wasn't even his OWN HOUSE. He didn't even know these neighbors, and he was not in fear of his own life. He instigated the WHOLE ENTIRE conflict once he went outside with a freaking gun. He watched long and hard with DIRECTION from a 911 aid, yet he still premeditates this. I would think much differently if you unknownly saw somebody suddenly break into your own room, but this call from this guy just makes me sick.

MIAdragon
11-21-2007, 09:23 PM
Have you listened to this video? I was listening to this on CNN and it is ridiculous. I honestly think this guy should get AT LEAST the most severe manslaughter chargers. He had intent to kill these guys. He was on the phone with 911, they told him repeatedly to not go out. Yet he's like no this isn't right. He even says he IS GOING to kill them. He tells the 911 he has a shotgun and is going to shoot both of them. After 911 tells him not to go out there about FIFTY times, he goes out there and says..

"If you move you are dead"

They apparently move and he shoots them.

What a ****ing hillbilly. Not saying these guys were in the right, but come one, shooting them to kill? They were not trying to inflict physical harm on anybody. This wasn't even his OWN HOUSE. He didn't even know these neighbors, and he was not in fear of his own life. He instigated the WHOLE ENTIRE conflict once he went outside with a freaking gun. He watched long and hard with DIRECTION from a 911 aid, yet he still premeditates this. I would think much differently if you unknownly saw somebody suddenly break into your own room, but this call from this guy just makes me sick.


I see your point but what if the guys got away then the next day they came to HIS house and possibly harmed him. This really is the PD's fault why they took so long to respond is beyond me.

damaticous
11-21-2007, 09:49 PM
Have you listened to this video? I was listening to this on CNN and it is ridiculous. I honestly think this guy should get AT LEAST the most severe manslaughter chargers. He had intent to kill these guys. He was on the phone with 911, they told him repeatedly to not go out. Yet he's like no this isn't right. He even says he IS GOING to kill them. He tells the 911 he has a shotgun and is going to shoot both of them. After 911 tells him not to go out there about FIFTY times, he goes out there and says..

"If you move you are dead"

They apparently move and he shoots them.

What a ****ing hillbilly. Not saying these guys were in the right, but come one, shooting them to kill? They were not trying to inflict physical harm on anybody. This wasn't even his OWN HOUSE. He didn't even know these neighbors, and he was not in fear of his own life. He instigated the WHOLE ENTIRE conflict once he went outside with a freaking gun. He watched long and hard with DIRECTION from a 911 aid, yet he still premeditates this. I would think much differently if you unknownly saw somebody suddenly break into your own room, but this call from this guy just makes me sick.

I too understand where you are coming from and I agree with you that he shouldn't have gone outside. He should have stayed in his own house and waited. Then, I believe, he would have had the right to shoot them.

BUT, how many robbers only hit ONE house.

Also, what is the likelihood that the robbers would have robbed his house? my opinion, pretty likely. It's even been said that the robbers were in his yard (property) and within 15 ft of his porch...I believe.

Should he have stayed in his house, my opinion says yes. But there are a lot of people out there, me included, that believe in helping thy neighbor and protecting what is morally right.

I believe, VERY MUCH, in the "Golden Rule". So, to me, I'm glad that the guy did this world a favor and think it's sad that he will most likely be tried in some sort of court guilty of premeditated murder of some sort.

BUT on the other hand I believe that he could have, and probably should have, given the proper authorities the needed descriptions as best he could and let the proper authorities taken care of the issue. I believe that he could then say he did his best without further escalating the situation until someone got killed. Then it would rely fully on the law enforcement, and not him, to take the law into his own hands.

So I see it both ways. BUT I lean more towards the "I'm glad he did it." because the guy was already on probation yet he still made the choice to burglarize a house. Come on!!! seriously! Teh guy was headed down the road to death anyway. Better to have someone that has morals and feels bad about killing him than someone that doesn't give a sh*t "Shim" him and/or kill him in prison.

stumppy
11-21-2007, 10:13 PM
IMO
Horn went way over the line and should do some time.
The two scumbags that were killed should be doing time, not six foot under. It sounds like Horn is just some gun ho dipshit who watched too many old westerns.

BWillie
11-21-2007, 10:18 PM
I see your point but what if the guys got away then the next day they came to HIS house and possibly harmed him. This really is the PD's fault why they took so long to respond is beyond me.

If I called the cops right now and said somebody was robbing my house I guarantee you the response time would probably be very similar if not way over 4 minutes. I think the response time was pretty good. While on the phone, the police officers show up immediately after this moron shot the guy.

jettio
11-21-2007, 10:32 PM
I have just been reminded what it is about whiny ass weak tea sucking commie shitbags that I don't like. Jettio has his panties in a bunch because someone defended himself with a gun. Jettio is one of those ultra liberal pissants who HATES the second Amendment but claims to not have a problem with enacted laws.

The guy said "NO, you're dead.". That would indicate a response to something like "You are dead old man". The guy defended his life which is perfectly legal (not to mention justifiable considering he was outnumbered 2-1 by men 40 years his junior and obviously not of the best moral fibre). Keep making victims of the perps "counselor".

Maybe you can file a motion to dismiss the charges that "Mr. Crying like a b*tch at his lawyer's office Horn" will be facing.

I have not posted anything sympathetic to the burglars, you can give "Mr. I am so sorry that I did it please send me some Kleenex while I cry like a b*tch Horn" all of the attaboys that you like and his dumb*ss will still be in jail.

Reality matters dipsh*t. You can imagine all of the nonsense that you like, but the truth is, Mr. Horn was stupid enough to think that his legislature passed a law that gave him a right to whack any criminals caught in the act. He did it and learned right away that he was wrong. Your hero Mr. Crying like a b*tch ruined his life.

You can praise him all you like, but it will not make the prison gruel taste any better.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 10:22 AM
If I called the cops right now and said somebody was robbing my house I guarantee you the response time would probably be very similar if not way over 4 minutes. I think the response time was pretty good. While on the phone, the police officers show up immediately after this moron shot the guy.

Id hope if I called saying someone was in my home they would hurry a little more than they did with him. 4 mins is A LONG time.

Al Bundy
11-22-2007, 11:05 AM
I think Joe Horn might have saved some peoples lives. These guys were up to no good and without a doubt would have caused serious harm if not to Horn then to the next person's house they rob.

Oh Snap
11-27-2007, 08:29 PM
Have you listened to this video? I was listening to this on CNN and it is ridiculous. I honestly think this guy should get AT LEAST the most severe manslaughter chargers. He had intent to kill these guys. He was on the phone with 911, they told him repeatedly to not go out. Yet he's like no this isn't right. He even says he IS GOING to kill them. He tells the 911 he has a shotgun and is going to shoot both of them. After 911 tells him not to go out there about FIFTY times, he goes out there and says..

"If you move you are dead"

They apparently move and he shoots them.

What a ****ing hillbilly. Not saying these guys were in the right, but come one, shooting them to kill? They were not trying to inflict physical harm on anybody. This wasn't even his OWN HOUSE. He didn't even know these neighbors, and he was not in fear of his own life. He instigated the WHOLE ENTIRE conflict once he went outside with a freaking gun. He watched long and hard with DIRECTION from a 911 aid, yet he still premeditates this. I would think much differently if you unknownly saw somebody suddenly break into your own room, but this call from this guy just makes me sick.

I havent heard the CNN one. But I think this sends a message. Come and rob my house, and be prepared to face the consequences of such actions. These guys were up to NO GOOD. Did they deserve to die? Who knows..probably not. but they could have very well hurt/killed someone themselves...It has happened all to often in the past.

jettio
11-29-2007, 04:17 PM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Iowanian
You wouldn't because you're a liberal twunt who thinks these scoundrels are always the victims. I can't think of a time when mcan didn't side with the poor misunderstood child molester, executed murderer et al.


I'll give the dumbass redneck the benefit of the doubt of being fired up by adrelaline and fear.

I can't think of a situation where I'll ever side with someone who is breaking into someone else's home.

If someone enters your home in these situations, you HAVE to assume they have the worst of intentions. People of morals don't invade other person's home.

Holy sh!t, I just got told! Please allow me to defend myself:

1) I'm not even a liberal. I consider myself a moderate that believes in individual freedoms. The more ability a nation gets to take care of its people, the more that nation should take care of its people. In that way, I suppose I have some socialist tendencies. But I feel like the government shouldn't step into other peoples' business any more than it absolutley has to. I believe in equal rights for all, but I'm against any kind of affirmative action in the private sector. I believe that all violent crimes are "hate crimes" and I'm very sensitive to anything that smacks of reverse racism. In fact, I don't like that term. Racism is what it is no matter the color of your skin. I also believe that people are WAY too sensitive about everything today. I believe you have to TAKE offense, as it can not be GIVEN. I also believe that those freedoms we give willingly to people we agree with are the same freedoms we must be obligated to give those that we hate.

2) As for me supporting child molestation, I believe you're EXTREMELY mistaken and frankly, you're an asshole for saying so. I'm not denying that I have had many a heated discussion about sex on this forum. The biggest one being the Dakota Fanning debate. I got chewed out for saying that people should see the movie before they demonize the girls' parents and the director. And that calling a movie "child porn" before it's even released is short sighted to say the least. If that makes me a child molestor, than I'm EXTREMELY FUC#ING HAPPY YOU'RE NOT HOLDING A GUN TO MY HEAD! Since I now know your opinions about vigilante justice.

3) I agree, people with morals don't break into other peoples' homes. I'll also state that people of morals don't usually admit to wanting to kill somebody over and over and then go and shoot them.


If you are waiting for that cowardly gutless chickensh*t of an Iowanian to answer. Forget about that. He does not have the sand to answer in the same thread when he is all the way wrong.

What the chickensh*t will do, is lie about what you posted in a later thread and hope that his friends believe his gutless lying azz.

Radar Chief
11-29-2007, 04:25 PM
Thanks for bringing this back, Jettio. I hadn’t seen this response. :thumb:

If I posted as much stupid sh*t in support of Stooges-Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld as you have I would also pretend to have forgotten it by now.

All I’ve ever done is correct your hormonal whinings with links to the verifiable facts as they are known to us. That you need to demagogue this as a defense of anyone says more about you than me.

jettio
11-29-2007, 04:32 PM
Thanks for bringing this back, Jettio. I hadn’t seen this response. :thumb:



All I’ve ever done is correct your hormonal whinings with links to the verifiable facts as they are known to us. That you need to demagogue this as a defense of anyone says more about you than me.

That reads like something Rumsfeld might say. :hmmm:

Simplex3
11-29-2007, 04:34 PM
The outcome is that Mr. Horn's got good reason to be crying like a b*tch at his lawyer's office. He will be charged, prosecuted and probably cop a plea to a criminal homicide charge.
LMAO They have to find 12 Texans willing to convict him first. Unless his lawyer is a complete fool they'll get at least 5 people on that jury that will never convict.

He will also likely be a party to a wrongful death civil suit where, if he has homeowner's liabilty insurance, the insurance company will be trying to avoid coverage because he committed an intentional criminal act. They might also argue that he shot from his property at the two burglars when those two were not on his property, which is probably true.

Mr. Horn f*cked his own life up, by being stupid enough to think like you. You ought to go ahead and follow in his footsteps. It really is not impossible for you to find a burglary suspect and for you to do the same heroic thing as Mr. Horn. Go ahead and make your day.
You're probably right. He should have killed them AND their entire families.

jettio
11-29-2007, 04:53 PM
LMAO They have to find 12 Texans willing to convict him first. Unless his lawyer is a complete fool they'll get at least 5 people on that jury that will never convict.


You're probably right. He should have killed them AND their entire families.

I think if the prosecutor makes an honest effort at an indictment to the grand jury, an indictment issues.

I would expect that if an indictment issues, his lawyer won't take a chance with a 61 y/o man and that 9-1-1 tape, and that there will be a plea bargain.

If he is a first-time offender, I would expect that the prosecutor would give him some kind of break for not understanding that the change in law did not allow him to do that.

A prosecutor could not afford to lose a case like that and if the old man is taking it as hard as his lawyer says he is, I don't think the old man could afford to risk a trial.

Iowanian
11-29-2007, 05:51 PM
I'm not exactly sure what brave, gut filled question you'd like to have answered.

I think you're a slimy, shitbag, rubbernecking, dumb**** that has no idea what guts, chickenshit, intestinal fortitude might actually relate to.

You're a dumbass. A rubberneck, flat pecker with a giant butthurt.

Its funny.

I may not have sand, but you clearly do......an entire vagina packed full of it.



Quote:

If you are waiting for that cowardly gutless chickensh*t of an Iowanian to answer. Forget about that. He does not have the sand to answer in the same thread when he is all the way wrong.

What the chickensh*t will do, is lie about what you posted in a later thread and hope that his friends believe his gutless lying azz.


This guy did society a favor, and gave a handful of ambulance chasing scumbag lawyers an entire year of work.

jettio
11-29-2007, 05:57 PM
I'm not exactly sure what brave, gut filled question you'd like to have answered.

I think you're a slimy, shitbag, rubbernecking, dumb**** that has no idea what guts, chickenshit, intestinal fortitude might actually relate to.

You're a dumbass. A rubberneck, flat pecker with a giant butthurt.

Its funny.

I may not have sand, but you clearly do......an entire vagina packed full of it.






This guy did society a favor, and gave a handful of ambulance chasing scumbag lawyers an entire year of work.


What reward are you going to give him for doing society a favor?

Stay at home and post your support on an internet bbs.

That it not going to help the poor fella a whole lot.

Simplex3
11-29-2007, 06:37 PM
I think if the prosecutor makes an honest effort at an indictment to the grand jury, an indictment issues.

I would expect that if an indictment issues, his lawyer won't take a chance with a 61 y/o man and that 9-1-1 tape, and that there will be a plea bargain.

If he is a first-time offender, I would expect that the prosecutor would give him some kind of break for not understanding that the change in law did not allow him to do that.

A prosecutor could not afford to lose a case like that and if the old man is taking it as hard as his lawyer says he is, I don't think the old man could afford to risk a trial.
So we're going to spend a bunch of legal dollars making sure this guy doesn't get punished. Great plan.

And if I'm this guy I don't plead to jack s**t. He would get off.

jettio
11-29-2007, 11:43 PM
So we're going to spend a bunch of legal dollars making sure this guy doesn't get punished. Great plan.

And if I'm this guy I don't plead to jack s**t. He would get off.

I doubt that. If he were charged with 1st or 2nd degree murder, and lesser included manslaughter was submitted he would get convicted of manslaughter, at least.

The 9-1-1 call that you may or may not have listened to will be in evidence. You don't tell the 9-1-1 operator that you are rejecting his advice and going outside to kill two people if the police do not show up first, kill two people and, then, get a free pass.

Iowanian
11-29-2007, 11:49 PM
I'm going to send his wife a "beware of owner" sign for her yard.


911 operators have zero authority, cornhead cornheaded cornhead.

jettio
11-29-2007, 11:58 PM
I'm going to send his wife a "beware of owner" sign for her yard.


911 operators have zero authority, cornhead cornheaded cornhead.

Mr. Horn will be facing a charge for criminal homicide, not disobeying the lawful order of a 9-1-1 operator.

The 9-1-1 call will be evidence against him.

I post my point of view about real life, and I am assuming that this story is about something that really happened and that the linked 9-1-1 call is real.

Maybe you live in some land of make believe, and think that Mr. Horn does not really exist, or that the law is what you imagine it to be in your world of make believe.

You really ought to come clean about whether you are doing drugs or are just incredibly dumb.

Extra Point
11-30-2007, 12:20 AM
Man 1. 5 years parole. Otherwise, the grasshoppers take over the ant's house, provided the trial goes beyond the next pres election, and a dem gets in.

Of course, you've heard that Rodney King got shot?

Demonpenz
11-30-2007, 12:25 AM
I remmeber one time this guy set up a shotgun because kids were breaking into his house. He set up a shotgun to blow whoever's head off that broke in next. I think that guy is doing life right now.

Iowanian
11-30-2007, 12:29 AM
You really ought to come clean about whether you are doing drugs or are just incredibly dumb.

Please seek treatment before that bacterial vaginosis becomes overwhelming to the other's in the elevator you're riding to the dumbf@ck penthouse.

BWillie
11-30-2007, 01:01 AM
Mr. Horn will be facing a charge for criminal homicide, not disobeying the lawful order of a 9-1-1 operator.

The 9-1-1 call will be evidence against him.

I post my point of view about real life, and I am assuming that this story is about something that really happened and that the linked 9-1-1 call is real.

Maybe you live in some land of make believe, and think that Mr. Horn does not really exist, or that the law is what you imagine it to be in your world of make believe.

You really ought to come clean about whether you are doing drugs or are just incredibly dumb.

I agree with you jettio. For the life of me, I cannot figure out how there are actually people siding with Mr. Horn after what he said to the 911 operator. It has nothing to do with if the 911 operator has any authority or not. I mean did they not listen to the entire footage? The guy has intent to kill throughout the entire footage. It makes me wonder. Does everybody on CP have a total disregard to the law? Do you blow the head off of the shady guy that is knocking on your door trying to sell you magazines? Do you blow the high school kid away that is in your shed stealing your moonshine? I mean where do we draw the line?

greg63
11-30-2007, 01:09 AM
I understand the sentiment but the guy was wrong IMO.

Iowanian
11-30-2007, 07:38 AM
Mr Horn was likely just worried that these home invaders had just given his neighbor, or had intentions of entering his home and giving him the Shawn Taylor Business.

If you don't think a person has to assume that anyone who would break into your home isn't a dangerous person, you're either naive, or an id-10-t

Radar Chief
11-30-2007, 07:40 AM
That reads like something Rumsfeld might say. :hmmm:

:LOL: Speaking of “chicken shit” responses……

stevieray
11-30-2007, 07:45 AM
:LOL: Speaking of “chicken shit” responses……

yup, jettio always shows up when life makes him feel butthurt.

jettio
11-30-2007, 08:01 AM
Thanks for bringing this back, Jettio. I hadn’t seen this response. :thumb:



All I’ve ever done is correct your hormonal whinings with links to the verifiable facts as they are known to us. That you need to demagogue this as a defense of anyone says more about you than me.

So you claim that this post deserves a thoughtful reply.

As to your last paragraph, first sentence: You think you are right all the time? You have been right about what? Iraq? I don't think so.

As to your last paragraph, second sentence: I can't figure out what you mean by that.

jettio
11-30-2007, 08:17 AM
yup, jettio always shows up when life makes him feel butthurt.

Just make sure that your buddy, Iowanian, gets the message to have enough self-respect and respect for chiefs planet not to post false words in another poster's name.

I don't think I ever saw anything like that around here.

I think if you pop into a thread about something serious and you have another poster, out of nowhere, use your name and say that you advocate a position that you would never advocate, you would not appreciate it.

Radar Chief
11-30-2007, 08:21 AM
So you claim that this post deserves a thoughtful reply.

I’m just playing your petty little game. :shrug: Doesn't surprise me you have troubles handling it.

As to your last paragraph, first sentence: You think you are right all the time? You have been right about what? Iraq? I don't think so.

As to your last paragraph, second sentence: I can't figure out what you mean by that.

Sounds like something Madeleine Albright might say. :hmmm:

Radar Chief
11-30-2007, 08:24 AM
Just make sure that your buddy, Iowanian, gets the message to have enough self-respect and respect for chiefs planet not to post false words in another poster's name.

I don't think I ever saw anything like that around here.

I think if you pop into a thread about something serious and you have another poster, out of nowhere, use your name and say that you advocate a position that you would never advocate, you would not appreciate it.

Well, when you show up calling people “pussies” and “chicken shit”, generally acting like a jackass, you should expect to be treated like a jackass. Why is this simple cause / effect relationship so hard for you to figure out?

Iowanian
11-30-2007, 08:38 AM
...because jettio is a giant, gaping, bukake'd beef curtain cave.

I don't think I've seen a 4 day temper tantrum in the history of the planet. Jettio is like a giant swamp puffball of dumbf@ck, just waiting for something to step on it so it can pfffffffffffffffffft.


2 jettios 1 cup.

jettio
11-30-2007, 08:59 AM
Well, when you show up calling people “pussies” and “chicken shit”, generally acting like a jackass, you should expect to be treated like a jackass. Why is this simple cause / effect relationship so hard for you to figure out?

You post makes no sense. How does that justify someone putting false words in another poster's name?

Only a cowardly gutless chickensh*t, Iowanian, would put false words in another poster's name.

I have posted my strong opinions since I have been here, and Iowanian is the only one that crossed that line.

You can rationalize in his favor all you want, fact is, he loses respect for being a lying chickensh*t that would put false words in another poster's name.

Orlandochiefsgrl
11-30-2007, 09:07 AM
Home invasions are one of the most dangerous around florida, they lead to kidnapping, rape, torture, beating and death etc. and did I mention RAPE, of men and women!!
Come on, who wouldn't be scared thinking these guys might come back, esp. if they know it was me that called the po po on them. They were a threat to the whole neighbor and society in general it turns out.
When bad things happen during a crime, it is ONLY the criminals fault, esp. when said criminals actions are a direct result of those bad things, that wouldn't have normally happened if not for their criminal activity.

crazycoffey
11-30-2007, 09:13 AM
C'mon now...

shut the F up, pussy





and yes I did read the thread......
you chickenshits

Radar Chief
11-30-2007, 10:13 AM
You post makes no sense. How does that justify someone putting false words in another poster's name?

Only a cowardly gutless chickensh*t, Iowanian, would put false words in another poster's name.

I have posted my strong opinions since I have been here, and Iowanian is the only one that crossed that line.

You can rationalize in his favor all you want, fact is, he loses respect for being a lying chickensh*t that would put false words in another poster's name.

If I were in your shoes I’d try to wave off my explanation as something else too. :thumb:

Radar Chief
11-30-2007, 10:40 AM
Well it happened again. Aparently last night in Porter, TX only this time the guy was in the house being broken into.

Homeowner shoots and kills suspected burglar in Porter
By Laura Whitley
(11/29/07 - KTRK/PORTER, TX) - A homeowner in Porter shot and killed a suspected burglar Thursday. And the situation became so intense that the homeowner himself was taken to the hospital.
We're also learning there have been other problems with crime in the neighborhood on West Hammond near Highway 59.
Around 1:30pm, property owner Gary Southworth called 911 and said that he'd shot a man who was stealing from him and that he needed help. Paramedics rushed the suspected thief to Kingwood Hospital, but he died from his wounds.
Paramedics had to also take Southworth to the hospital after the shooting because the 60-year-old was having chest pains. Meanwhile, his wife, Alberta Southworth, says thieves had hit them several times recently.
"It's beyond awful," she said. "It's our whole life, I mean, he's been so sick and all we have left to live on is what they've stolen. We have nothing now. They took our bank account basically."
"He had reported two thefts in the past two days that had occurred in the nighttime hours," said Sgt. Bill Bucks with the Montgomery County Sheriff's Department. "It's my understanding that this is not his primary residence, but he does own the property. He came back to watch and make sure nobody stole anything from his house."
A new law that just went into effect in September allows Texans to defend themselves with deadly force in their homes, cars and work places. The Castle Doctrine removes the requirement that a person must attempt to retreat before using deadly force.
It's important to note that the deputy told us that when Southworth called 911, he was requesting help for the man he just shot.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5793118

crazycoffey
11-30-2007, 01:29 PM
Well it happened again. Aparently last night in Porter, TX only this time the guy was in the house being broken into.



http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5793118



1+2=3

owning a gun + a burglar in the house = someone getting shot. Glad it was the right one this time.

chasedude
11-30-2007, 03:18 PM
1+2=3

owning a gun + a burglar in the house = someone getting shot. Glad it was the right one this time.

Self preservation, works everytime.