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View Full Version : Torii Hunter signs with the Angels...


Mecca
11-22-2007, 06:28 AM
Reportedly 5 years 80 million dollars...

Don't see the Royals doing much with the prices this offseason.

Delano
11-22-2007, 07:04 AM
He was an absolute gem for a Twins fan. Great locker room guy, which is so important in baseball. He ALWAYS had a smile on his face. Hard worker and all that.

I do think he has lost a step in the outfield.

I am not super sad to see him go. The Twins have always been stacked in outfield prospects.

Good luck Torii - you deserve a championship.

OmahaChief
11-22-2007, 07:12 AM
Hunter is a nice player but not worth that kind of money. personally I would rather invest in our own young talent and lock them up long term. The Free Agent market in baseball is out of control along with their salaries. They really need to get a handle on that.

Coach
11-22-2007, 07:15 AM
So, now what's gonna happen to Gary Matthews Jr?

FringeNC
11-22-2007, 07:39 AM
A lot of money for an .800 OPS guy...

KevB
11-22-2007, 08:57 AM
Seems that this deal and whatever Rowand gets will add to DeJesus or Gathright's trade value. Especially DeJesus, who's signed to a very reasonable contract.

Sure-Oz
11-22-2007, 08:59 AM
So they have 2 CF's now

SCTrojan
11-22-2007, 09:11 AM
Solid player, but at 18 mil / year? That's a pretty huge five-year investment for a 32-year-old guy. I wouldn't have wanted the Royals to put that sort of money into him even though he seems like he'd be a good addition to any ballclub.

Sure-Oz
11-22-2007, 09:12 AM
Seems that this deal and whatever Rowand gets will add to DeJesus or Gathright's trade value. Especially DeJesus, who's signed to a very reasonable contract.
How likely is it that both are traded? I've heard rumors about Dejesus big time.

L.A. Chieffan
11-22-2007, 09:14 AM
So, now what's gonna happen to Gary Matthews Jr?
Exactly, and they traded their solid SS for an average pitcher. Angels aren't looking too good since Stoneman left.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 09:14 AM
So they have 2 CF's now

No Matthews, Jr will mave to left.

Sure-Oz
11-22-2007, 09:17 AM
Exactly, and they traded their solid SS for an average pitcher. Angels aren't looking too good since Stoneman left.
Rumors are they could use some of their players to get Cabrera etc, so who knows if they are close to being done. They have alot of OFer's.

Spicy McHaggis
11-22-2007, 09:19 AM
I wanted him in KC but that's a lot of money for an older guy. That said he's the kind of veteran you want in your locker room.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 10:00 AM
Actually the moves they've made make sense....Matthews wasn't that good for them and had injury issues. Hunter is an upgrade, Matthews moves or goes to the bench, likely moves due to the other guys they have.

They traded an aging SS for a 200 every year solid starter, lets understand they also have Brandon Wood to takeover who is a top prospect. And yes they are reportedly in on Miguel Cabrera also...he's like a 1st or DH in the AL though.

Mr. Laz
11-22-2007, 10:01 AM
wow ..... 80 million

can't blame the royals for not paying that

nomad
11-22-2007, 10:47 AM
Angels fan here....

This new GM (Reagins), or current coach (Scioscia) is really stirring it up with Hunter and Garland trades.

Speculation is either a Cabrera or Tejada trade is next with the Angels stocked with outfielders and starting pitching.

Kinda think that the Manager (Scioscia) is behind a lot of these moves and is the big power broker now that former GM Stoneman, who was renown for his lack of trades in his tenure, retired.

Much more is expected to take place before all is said and done in Anaheim.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 10:48 AM
Well Stoneman refused to make trades, the Angels refused to ever trade any prospects so they basically made no deals/

Cochise
11-22-2007, 11:04 AM
Angels fan here....

This new GM (Reagins), or current coach (Scioscia) is really stirring it up with Hunter and Garland trades.

Speculation is either a Cabrera or Tejada trade is next with the Angels stocked with outfielders and starting pitching.

Kinda think that the Manager (Scioscia) is behind a lot of these moves and is the big power broker now that former GM Stoneman, who was renown for his lack of trades in his tenure, retired.

Much more is expected to take place before all is said and done in Anaheim.

Don't they have a SS prospect already that was so good they refused to listen to offers for him?


Hunter is a fine baseball player, but the Royals are not in a position to pay this kind of money to guys who aren't one of the last couple pieces of the puzzle, or who you don't expect to be worth all of that money in 4-5 years.

Cochise
11-22-2007, 11:07 AM
For our part, I was kind of hoping we might be able to land Rowand, and then DeJesus could play left field or something. That could add a piece for us. But given this, it looks like Rowand's asking price might be too high.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2007, 11:57 AM
That's an awful deal for a guy in his 30's who just had a career contract year.

When he hits 257 next year and has 18 homers, they are gonna be pissed.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2007, 11:58 AM
For our part, I was kind of hoping we might be able to land Rowand, and then DeJesus could play left field or something. That could add a piece for us. But given this, it looks like Rowand's asking price might be too high.

I'd shy away from Rowand. He's had two great years in the last six, and played really poorly in the other four. Tough, hardnosed player, but he gets hurt a lot and isn't a consistent bat.

Fruit Ninja
11-22-2007, 11:59 AM
Yep, they overpaid for him. I would have rather taken Andrew Jones. He had a off year, but he's a better playing IMO. He had the worst year of his career and yet he still won a gold glove and hit 25 homers. He's not going to stay in that slump. I just hope the Dodgers can sign his ass up. We could use his damn glove.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 12:01 PM
That's an awful deal for a guy in his 30's who just had a career contract year.

When he hits 257 next year and has 18 homers, they are gonna be pissed.

Um if you notice...go back and look at Hunters last 3-4 years.....the numbers are consistent other than the year in which he played 98 games due to injury.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2007, 12:15 PM
Um if you notice...go back and look at Hunters last 3-4 years.....the numbers are consistent other than the year in which he played 98 games due to injury.

He's 32 years old and just set career highs for HRs, total bases, hits, doubles, and runs, and second best career numbers in .OPS and slugging.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2007, 12:16 PM
Mecca, you just chastized the Chiefs for resigning aging players based on past performance.

Yeah, baseball doesn't have a cap and players don't age as rapidly, but how is this any different? Is a 38 year old Torii Hunter going to be worth 16 million a year when he's putting up Jim Edmonds in '07 type numbers?

Mecca
11-22-2007, 12:17 PM
He didn't set career numbers by a huge margin here, this isn't Adrian Beltre hitting 49 HR's after never hitting more than 20 some before..

He hit 32...he had 29 in season previous that he played that many games...his numbers are pretty consistent he was a bit higher but nothing drastic.

Sure-Oz
11-22-2007, 12:17 PM
I'm glad the royals didn't land a 32 year old for that kind of bank. I think we can go in a better direction, youth wise. He had a great year last year but was "solid", they overpaid last year for a CF'er as well.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 12:19 PM
Mecca, you just chastized the Chiefs for resigning aging players based on past performance.

Yeah, baseball doesn't have a cap and players don't age as rapidly, but how is this any different? Is a 38 year old Torii Hunter going to be worth 16 million a year when he's putting up Jim Edmonds in '07 type numbers?

He'll be 37 when the contract expires......I think he'll still be pretty productive for the most part of the contract. Obviously baseball players can still be good in their 30's and Hunter has never had the severe injury history of Jim Edmonds.

The Angels are going for it basically, they had to get a new CF, Vlad only has so much longer and Garrett Anderson is about 62 now.

I consider the Angels my 2nd team, I needed one for awhile because the Royals were that uninteresting and I needed a reason to follow baseball.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2007, 12:22 PM
He didn't set career numbers by a huge margin here, this isn't Adrian Beltre hitting 49 HR's after never hitting more than 20 some before..

He hit 32...he had 29 in season previous that he played that many games...his numbers are pretty consistent he was a bit higher but nothing drastic.

He played in an offense that was worse than last year, he had less protection as Mauer was awful this year, Morneau and Cuddyer were about the same, and yet he had better numbers across the board.

He's not going to match that...period. He's also significantly older than Beltre was..

Mecca
11-22-2007, 12:23 PM
I consider Hunter 'safe" even when I draft him in fantasy baseball I consider him safe, he will almost always do the same.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2007, 12:28 PM
He'll be 37 when the contract expires......I think he'll still be pretty productive for the most part of the contract. Obviously baseball players can still be good in their 30's and Hunter has never had the severe injury history of Jim Edmonds.

The Angels are going for it basically, they had to get a new CF, Vlad only has so much longer and Garrett Anderson is about 62 now.

I consider the Angels my 2nd team, I needed one for awhile because the Royals were that uninteresting and I needed a reason to follow baseball.

Vlad is younger than Torii Hunter, Edmonds had one year where he missed significant time before the last two. In fact, they have remarkably similar injury histories. The difference is that Edmonds was a better hitter than Hunter, and just as good of a defender.

His career BA is higher than Hunter's best year, he has multiple seasons above Hunter's career best HR total, has a higher .OPS, and scored a dickton more runs, and drew more walks.

And you know what, the extension the Cardinals signed him to was a poor business decision, because he has killed them salary wise the last three years.

If that's the case with a better player, why would it be any different with Hunter?

You did the same move last year with Gary Mathews Jr. and his career year. How'd that work out for you when his production dropped by a third in every category but HRs?

Mecca
11-22-2007, 12:31 PM
That Matthews signing was horrible, I won't even defend that at all. He had 1 good year, at least Hunter has been consistent.

In his peak yes Edmonds was better, however I think there is a difference in breaking a bone in your leg and showing you are completely back from it and blowing a shoulder like Edmonds did, and I believe he has back problems that linger. That's why I said his injury history is worse than Hunters.

Also difference in the Cards and Angels is the Angels can buy their way out of a mistake and will spend quite a bit more money than the Cards will..

And I'm kinda bias, Hunter is one of my favorite players and has been for some time.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2007, 12:35 PM
That Matthews signing was horrible, I won't even defend that at all. He had 1 good year, at least Hunter has been consistent.

In his peak yes Edmonds was better, however I think there is a difference in breaking a bone in your leg and showing you are completely back from it and blowing a shoulder like Edmonds did, and I believe he has back problems that linger. That's why I said his injury history is worse than Hunters.

Also difference in the Cards and Angels is the Angels can buy their way out of a mistake and will spend quite a bit more money than the Cards will..

And I'm kinda bias, Hunter is one of my favorite players and has been for some time.

At least you admit bias with Hunter (just like I should and do about Priest) and you are 100% correct about the financial differences between the two teams.

FWIW, Edmonds' back injuries didn't really begin surfacing until 2005 and on.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 12:39 PM
I have no problem admitting it, I generally like what they do. They mix vets with a very good farm system, they don't rape the system to make trades to be good for a year.

Thig Lyfe
11-22-2007, 12:58 PM
wow ..... 80 million

can't blame the royals for not paying that


DAMMIT GLASS!

DaneMcCloud
11-22-2007, 02:13 PM
Hunter is a nice player but not worth that kind of money. personally I would rather invest in our own young talent and lock them up long term. The Free Agent market in baseball is out of control along with their salaries. They really need to get a handle on that.

No, they don't.

Teams aren't making these types of decisions because they can't afford them - they're doing it because they can.

Baseball is a free market sport. The luxury tax is the only reason why teams like the Royals and Rays are even in business.

It may be sad and seem unfair, but those are the rules set forth by the owners.

Demonpenz
11-22-2007, 03:16 PM
his best days are behind him. DO i wish he was on the royals? Yes, but not over spending some of that money on the pitching. 10 extra garbage homeruns and a cf who has lost a step isn't what really need

beavis
11-22-2007, 03:41 PM
his best days are behind him. DO i wish he was on the royals? Yes, but not over spending some of that money on the pitching. 10 extra garbage homeruns and a cf who has lost a step isn't what really need
Exactly. Three or four years ago this would have made sense for KC. Today, I think he will be way past his prime at the end of the contract. Not disappointed at all that we didn't get him.

Now spend this extra money on some pitching...

Delano
11-22-2007, 07:39 PM
If the Twins weren't looking to resign Santana and Nathan, they would have locked Torii up for a few years.

He was fairly low on the priority totem pole.

I have seen marked improvement in Torii since he came back from a season ending injury early in his career. He is much more disciplined at the plate, but still swats at bad pitches from time to time.

I see him improving at the plate with age, but slowing down in the field. Still has a great arm, but can't track down some of the balls he caught early in his career.

Sfeihc
11-22-2007, 07:48 PM
I'm glad not to have to face Hunter for 4 or 5 series every season anymore.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 07:56 PM
If the Twins weren't looking to resign Santana and Nathan, they would have locked Torii up for a few years.

He was fairly low on the priority totem pole.

I have seen marked improvement in Torii since he came back from a season ending injury early in his career. He is much more disciplined at the plate, but still swats at bad pitches from time to time.

I see him improving at the plate with age, but slowing down in the field. Still has a great arm, but can't track down some of the balls he caught early in his career.

Not for that money. I donít see them being able to afford Santana. I think the Twins are looking for a younger cheaper guy to play CF.

Delano
11-22-2007, 08:05 PM
Not for that money. I donít see them being able to afford Santana. I think the Twins are looking for a younger cheaper guy to play CF.
Mmmm.. they did their looking earlier. The Twins traded a player to be named for Craig Monroe on November 13th. He is not a whole lot younger, but he is cheaper. Oddly enough, Monroe and Hunter are long time friends and training partners.

As of right now, Santana and the Twins are about 30 million apart. Johan wants Barry Zito money, and the Twins wanna pay Carlos Zambrano money.

I kinda feel that they'll meet in the middle. 21 million per year or so.

The Twins have been loyal to their ace for the last few decades, so they are going to do what it takes. Santana had a down year last year, so that may hurt his cause a bit.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 08:10 PM
Mmmm.. they did their looking earlier. The Twins traded a player to be named for Craig Monroe on November 13th. He is not a whole lot younger, but he is cheaper. Oddly enough, Monroe and Hunter are long time friends and training partners.

As of right now, Santana and the Twins are about 30 million apart. Johan wants Barry Zito money, and the Twins wanna pay Carlos Zambrano money.

I kinda feel that they'll meet in the middle. 21 million per year or so.

The Twins have been loyal to their ace for the last few decades, so they are going to do what it takes. Santana had a down year last year, so that may hurt his cause a bit.
I really see the twins trading for Coco Crisp. I cant see Santana bending much at all, why would he when he can command top dollar and go to a team that will compete every year. I can see the Yanks giving him an unreal deal.

* Craig Monroe's stats are better than I remember.

Delano
11-22-2007, 08:15 PM
I really see the twins trading for Coco Crisp. I cant see Santana bending much at all, why would he when he can command top dollar and go to a team that will compete every year. I can see the Yanks giving him an unreal deal.

* Craig Monroe's stats are better than I remember.

We'll see. I just think he'll be signed before he hits the market.

Why do you feel that way about Crisp?

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 08:20 PM
We'll see. I just think he'll be signed before he hits the market.

Why do you feel that way about Crisp?

As a Sox fan I hope he does extend the thought of facing him 5-6 times a year is scary.

I thought I read that the two GMs met over the winter meetings and discussed Crisp. Ill try and dig up the article. And he fits with what the Twins system. He's a young switch hitter with speed and pretty good defense (he was robbed of a gold glove this year) and heís cheap.

Delano
11-22-2007, 08:28 PM
As a Sox fan I hope he does extend the thought of facing him 5-6 times a year is scary.

I thought I read that the two GMs met over the winter meetings and discussed Crisp. Ill try and dig up the article. And he fits with what the Twins system. He's a young switch hitter with speed and pretty good defense (he was robbed of a gold glove this year) and heís cheap.

Heh. I am going to need a few years before I can predict what the Twins new GM will do. I assume he will follow the Terry Ryan model, but it's hard to say.

They picked up a Center Field prospect (Dustin Martin) from the Mets for Luis Castillo. I'm thinking Monroe is a stop gap.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 08:38 PM
Heh. I am going to need a few years before I can predict what the Twins new GM will do. I assume he will follow the Terry Ryan model, but it's hard to say.

They picked up a Center Field prospect (Dustin Martin) from the Mets for Luis Castillo. I'm thinking Monroe is a stop gap.

Martin looks like hes at least three years from even sniffing the bigs. How is Monroe's fielding/arm? I take it you are a Twins fan? What is Nathen asking for?

Mecca
11-22-2007, 09:06 PM
From what I understand Hunter turned down 5-75 from Minnesota and took 5-80 with the Angels....appears he just wanted out of Minny.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 09:08 PM
From what I understand Hunter turned down 5-75 from Minnesota and took 5-80 with the Angels....appears he just wanted out of Minny.

The Angels have shown they will spend what it takes to compete. That being said Minny looks like they too are opening the preverbal wallet.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 09:10 PM
The Angels spend in FA, but they never ever trade prospects, that's been the thing with them. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't.

I still think they fleeced the White Sox with that trade.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 09:13 PM
The Angels spend in FA, but they never ever trade prospects, that's been the thing with them. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't.

I still think they fleeced the White Sox with that trade.

I do too they were shopping O cab, well they were willing to let him go for next to nothing as long as the other team picked up his salary.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 09:14 PM
We'll see how the rest of it plays out but if they get Miguel Cabrera I think they shoot right up to being a front runner for the WS.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 09:21 PM
We'll see how the rest of it plays out but if they get Miguel Cabrera I think they shoot right up to being a front runner for the WS.

Why do you think that!?

Mecca
11-22-2007, 09:22 PM
Why do you think that!?

Which part......how do they become a contender with him? Well they need bats and that's a premier bat.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 09:25 PM
Which part......how do they become a contender with him? Well they need bats and that's a premier bat.

I see them as a contender but as a front runner for the WS I question. And to get Miggy they will have to give up the farm to get him.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 09:36 PM
I see them as a contender but as a front runner for the WS I question. And to get Miggy they will have to give up the farm to get him.

Ken Rosenthal is reporting that Miguel Cabrera will most likely be a Dodger or Angel possibly as soon as Thanksgiving.

The names coming back are pretty great. Both 4 player deals are rumored... Kemp and Kershaw being the centerpieces from the Dodgers and Kendrick and Adenhart from the Angels.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 09:43 PM
Ken Rosenthal is reporting that Miguel Cabrera will most likely be a Dodger or Angel possibly as soon as Thanksgiving.

The names coming back are pretty great. Both 4 player deals are rumored... Kemp and Kershaw being the centerpieces from the Dodgers and Kendrick and Adenhart from the Angels.

Both deals look really good I think the Dodgers offer is a little better. MCab might enjoy those dodger dogs a little TOO much and put on another 30 pounds!

Mecca
11-22-2007, 09:52 PM
If the Angels did get him for those guys that would be a good deal, Figgins could just move over to 2nd, and Kendrick is injury prone.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 09:55 PM
If the Angels did get him for those guys that would be a good deal, Figgins could just move over to 2nd, and Kendrick is injury prone.

I agree He will give you some much needed power but his glove leaves much to be desired. Has Figgins played much 2nd?

Mecca
11-22-2007, 10:00 PM
I'm pretty sure he came up as a 2nd baseman.

MIAdragon
11-22-2007, 10:04 PM
I'm pretty sure he came up as a 2nd baseman.

Looks like he's played 4-5 games with LAA at 2nd.

Reaper16
11-22-2007, 10:39 PM
ESPN says the deal is 5 years, $90 million. Which is substantially worse.

Bowser
11-22-2007, 10:44 PM
ESPN says the deal is 5 years, $90 million. Which is substantially worse.

He's good, but is he 18 mil/year good?

Mecca
11-22-2007, 10:47 PM
Apparently in LA you can afford more.....The Angels needed a CF pretty badly they apparently felt overpaying for the best one on the market was worth it.

Bowser
11-22-2007, 10:49 PM
Apparently in LA you can afford more.....The Angels needed a CF pretty badly they apparently felt overpaying for the best one on the market was worth it.

For 18 mil/year, he better be one of the final pieces to the puzzle. You'd hope that, anyway.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 10:56 PM
Well the offense is a problem, Vlad is injury prone and Anderson is just old as hell.

I expect some more moves from them.

Demonpenz
11-22-2007, 11:25 PM
hunter is not a bat that is going to protect vladdy

Raiderz_00
11-22-2007, 11:52 PM
Money is not an object in baseball anymore ... unless your team is the Royals, Devil Rays, Marlins or Pirates. My White Sox were in the hunt for him but, I guess they missed out. Maybe my team will trade for M. Cabrera of the Marlins and sign Rowand or just have J. Owens take our CF duties. Who knows but there does need to be a Cap in baseball INO.