PDA

View Full Version : Does Detroit have a better O-line than we do?


FringeNC
11-22-2007, 11:43 AM
Terrible rushing stats, lead the league in sacks allowed....yet have a much better offense than we do.

...but most on here seem to want to give Herm a free-ride and blame it on the o-line.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 11:45 AM
Their line is bad but they still run their offense anyway...

RedThat
11-22-2007, 11:45 AM
The difference is, they know what to do with talent. They know how to call plays.

The difference is, they don't have Herm Edwards.

FringeNC
11-22-2007, 11:46 AM
The difference is, they know what to do with talent. They know how to call plays.

The difference is, they don't have Herm Edwards.

exactly. Martz > Edwards running an offense.

Mr. Laz
11-22-2007, 11:48 AM
Terrible rushing stats, lead the league in sacks allowed....yet have a much better offense than we do.

...but most on here seem to want to give Herm a free-ride and blame it on the o-line.
not really ...... but they have much better offensive coaching.


LT Jeff Backus
LG Edwin Mulitalo
C Dominic Raiola
RG Stephen Peterman
RT George Foster

Mecca
11-22-2007, 11:49 AM
I think Jon Scott is playing RT today, either way it isn't good.

Bowser
11-22-2007, 11:52 AM
Do we have a better O-line than anybody in the NFL? If so, I feel sorry for that other team.

Easy 6
11-22-2007, 11:53 AM
It pains me to say it, but ours is the worst in the league...Waters is a man alone.

FringeNC
11-22-2007, 11:56 AM
It pains me to say it, but ours is the worst in the league...Waters is a man alone.

If ours was the worst in the league, wouldn't Croyle have been sacked more than 4 times in the pass 60 attempts? Those are not the type of numbers associated with 32-ranked O-lines..

Mr. Laz
11-22-2007, 11:58 AM
It pains me to say it, but ours is the worst in the league...Waters is a man alone.
i completely disagree


Roaf - McIntosh
Waters - Waters
Wiegmann - Wiegmann
Shields - welbourn
Welbourn - Terry


no way is this a 1st to worst lineup change

Bowser
11-22-2007, 11:58 AM
If ours was the worst in the league, wouldn't Croyle have been sacked more than 4 times in the pass 60 attempts? Those are not the type of numbers associated with 32-ranked O-lines..

Maybe, but maybe Croyle has enough in him to not curl into the fetal position at the first sign of pressure, unlike other QB's on our roster.

Bowser
11-22-2007, 12:00 PM
i completely disagree


Roaf - McIntosh
Waters - Waters
Wiegmann - Wiegmann
Shields - welbourn
Welbourn - Terry


no way is this a 1st to worst lineup change

It's not our entire line. It's the right side of our line. Welbourn, Terry, and Turley have no business starting in the NFL anymore. They are SO bad, it takes away from Waters and Weigmann concentrating on their jobs exclusively.

Mr. Laz
11-22-2007, 12:03 PM
It's not our entire line. It's the right side of our line. Welbourn, Terry, and Turley have no business starting in the NFL anymore. They are SO bad, it takes away from Waters and Weigmann concentrating on their jobs exclusively.
we had welbourn at right tackle when our offense was doing great things.

although it was a 'roided welbourn :D but still ....



this offense line isn't great ... it's not even good, but coaching is still our biggest offensive weakness imo.

Bowser
11-22-2007, 12:06 PM
we had welbourn at right tackle when our offense was doing great things.

although it was a 'roided welbourn :D but still ....



this offense line isn't great ... it's not even good, but coaching is still our biggest offensive weakness imo.

I can go with that. I understand not wanting to get your potential QB of the future killed, but if you play scared with the kid, you more tha likely aren't going to see much, if any, success. I just hope Herm being ultra conservative doesn't get into Brodie's head as Herm not having confidence in his abilities.

milkman
11-22-2007, 12:07 PM
i completely disagree


Roaf - McIntosh
Waters - Waters
Wiegmann - Wiegmann
Shields - welbourn
Welbourn - Terry


no way is this a 1st to worst lineup change

That is really a huge talent dropoff when you consider the loss of Roaf and Shields.

Throw in the change in approach, which Wiegman isn't suited for, it really is enough to call a first to worst change.

OnTheWarpath58
11-22-2007, 12:09 PM
It's not our entire line. It's the right side of our line. Welbourn, Terry, and Turley have no business starting in the NFL anymore. They are SO bad, it takes away from Waters and Weigmann concentrating on their jobs exclusively.

Weigmann should be included in that "right side" as well, IMO.

It's not his fault, but he's just not suited for this style of offense. It seems like every team we play has a DT that outweighs him by 75 pounds.

I really don't think ANYONE thought Welbourn and Terry would be this bad.

Welbourn's a natural guard and played well there in the past.

Terry flashed just enough last year from Thanksgiving on to convince the staff he was the answer. Then he goes and lays an egg this year.

I'm hoping the kids we have at CB have showed Herm enough to not have to worry about the position in the draft, at least not early.

I believe in BPA, but I also feel we need 1st day guys on the OL that can make an immediate impact. At bare minimum, we need a tackle, right or left.

Getting a center, guard AND tackle would be a dream come true.

keg in kc
11-22-2007, 12:11 PM
Coaching is not a strength, obviously, but the middle and right side of the Chiefs line is bad as it gets. Wiegmann is getting abused even worse than last year (which I count as a coaching issue - they're emphasizing his weakness by using him in a power game), and the RG/RT play has been horrible (personnel issue). Terry is a turnstile.

Only fix I can see this offseason is to somehow find a good left tackle, move McIntosh to the right side to solidify the outside, replace Wiegmann and find a starting right guard.

That's all...

Mr. Laz
11-22-2007, 12:12 PM
I can go with that. I understand not wanting to get your potential QB of the future killed, but if you play scared with the kid, you more tha likely aren't going to see much, if any, success. I just hope Herm being ultra conservative doesn't get into Brodie's head as Herm not having confidence in his abilities.
Marty got into many a young QB's head with this conservative "play scared" stuff and ruined them. It's why i wasn't freaking out when Croyle didn't start at the beginning of the season.

the less time Croyle has in the current situation, the better.

Bowser
11-22-2007, 12:15 PM
And really, could we please go ahead and start Herb Taylor at right tackle and Tre Stallings at right guard. There is NO WAY they can be any worse than what we march out there every week.

RedThat
11-22-2007, 12:17 PM
And really, could we please go ahead and start Herb Taylor at right tackle and Tre Stallings at right guard. There is NO WAY they can be any worse than what we march out there every week.

I agree with this.

OnTheWarpath58
11-22-2007, 12:18 PM
And really, could we please go ahead and start Herb Taylor at right tackle and Tre Stallings at right guard. There is NO WAY they can be any worse than what we march out there every week.

Not a bad idea, but won't happen unless injuries force it to happen.

I'd like to know if these two have a chance or if they are career backups. It'd be nice to know before the draft.

Bowser
11-22-2007, 12:20 PM
Not a bad idea, but won't happen unless injuries force it to happen.

I'd like to know if these two have a chance or if they are career backups. It'd be nice to know before the draft.

It SHOULD happen. We're 4-6 looking up at the Chargers, and the ****ing Broncos have seemed to figure it out. There is zero chance of the playoffs this year - play the young kids.

RedThat
11-22-2007, 12:23 PM
i completely disagree


Roaf - McIntosh
Waters - Waters
Wiegmann - Wiegmann
Shields - welbourn
Welbourn - Terry


no way is this a 1st to worst lineup change

I think it is a bit of a drop off. Terry is flat out terrible. I watched a lot of the games, and the guy is a freeway lane for DE's. He's painful to watch. McIntosh is ok, but, he does get beat. He has his good days, and bad. I think the coaching staff is misusing Wiegman.

But the rest of the crew is pretty stout. Throw in or draft an OT this year, and I think the talent level goes up again. I do think it is coaching. I just think Solari should be back coaching this line again.

OnTheWarpath58
11-22-2007, 12:24 PM
It SHOULD happen. We're 4-6 looking up at the Chargers, and the ****ing Broncos have seemed to figure it out. There is zero chance of the playoffs this year - play the young kids.

I agree eleventy billion percent.

But considering who would make that decision, I'd be SHOCKED if it actually happened.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2007, 12:25 PM
Detroit can run the ball when they want to, they just never commit to it.

Mr. Laz
11-22-2007, 12:26 PM
I think it is a bit of a drop off. Terry is flat out terrible. I watched a lot of the games, and the guy is a freeway lane for DE's. He's painful to watch. McIntosh is ok, but, he does get beat. He has his good days, and bad. I think the coaching staff is misusing Wiegman.

But the rest of the crew is pretty stout. Throw in or draft an OT this year, and I think the talent level goes up again. I do think it is coaching. I just think Solari should be back coaching this line again.
agreed, but coaches rarely step down and stay with the same team.

even Goonther left for awhile before going back to his old job

OnTheWarpath58
11-22-2007, 12:27 PM
Detroit can run the ball when they want to, they just never commit to it.

Surprisingly, Martz is today.

KJ had something like 50 yard in the first quarter on 8 carries.

KCJohnny
11-22-2007, 12:38 PM
I don't know, but their 2nd string OLT (#67) just got plowed by Kampman. That was embarrassing...

:shake:

Easy 6
11-22-2007, 12:52 PM
If ours was the worst in the league, wouldn't Croyle have been sacked more than 4 times in the pass 60 attempts? Those are not the type of numbers associated with 32-ranked O-lines..

Not necessarily, Croyle simply makes quick decisions & has a very quick release.

Our rush numbers speak for themselves.

Fruit Ninja
11-22-2007, 12:54 PM
Calvin looks like shit.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2007, 12:55 PM
Surprisingly, Martz is today.

KJ had something like 50 yard in the first quarter on 8 carries.

Martz always did that about twice a year in STL. He'd come out and run the first ten plays of the game, then chuck it 55 times the next week.

KCJohnny
11-22-2007, 02:13 PM
Martz's system allows QBs to put up gaudy stats, but they get the crap beat out of them.

Mr. Laz
11-22-2007, 02:49 PM
Martz's system allows QBs to put up gaudy stats, but they get the crap beat out of them.
tell that to Huard

Count Alex's Wins
11-22-2007, 02:57 PM
The Lions are one game better than us. They have a better offense, we have a better defense. They play in the NFC. That's the way it goes.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 02:58 PM
The Lions are one game better than us. They have a better offense, we have a better defense. They play in the NFC. That's the way it goes.

They're also a lot younger...

King_Chief_Fan
11-22-2007, 06:02 PM
The Lions are one game better than us. They have a better offense, we have a better defense. They play in the NFC. That's the way it goes.
the difference beteen 6 and 4 is 2.

HonestChieffan
11-22-2007, 06:10 PM
Matters not as long as we have squirm

Count Alex's Wins
11-22-2007, 06:15 PM
the difference beteen 6 and 4 is 2.

The Lions are 6-5. We'll be 5-6 soon.

barry_smilez20
11-22-2007, 06:44 PM
The Lions are 6-5. We'll be 5-6 soon.

thats true we will end up 1-15

KC Tattoo
11-22-2007, 09:04 PM
I can go with that. I understand not wanting to get your potential QB of the future killed, but if you play scared with the kid, you more tha likely aren't going to see much, if any, success. I just hope Herm being ultra conservative doesn't get into Brodie's head as Herm not having confidence in his abilities.


That's what I'm afraid of. & Herm has been saying that the offense just isn't any good. That is not a vote of confidense. Good greif tell your team that they suck and see how good they play for you. We play dull the first half of every game. For one or two drives in the second half we pull some strings and score a TD just to keep the score close. I want to like Herm, but he is making it very very difficult to do so. Herm has an excuse for everything but no ancwers.

tk13
11-22-2007, 09:08 PM
If there's one thing Mike Martz is known for, it's definitely keeping his QB's from getting killed. That's for sure.

Easy 6
11-22-2007, 09:13 PM
That's what I'm afraid of. & Herm has been saying that the offense just isn't any good. That is not a vote of confidense. Good greif tell your team that they suck and see how good they play for you. We play dull the first half of every game. For one or two drives in the second half we pull some strings and score a TD just to keep the score close. I want to like Herm, but he is making it very very difficult to do so. Herm has an excuse for everything but no ancwers.

I completely agree, he makes excuses for poor play.

I hate to hold him up as a good example, but shannarat makes no excuses when he loses guys or the team doesnt play well...he plugs guys in & says "get it done", he might shorten the playlist...but he always takes the chances that are necessary to win the game.

I've honestly never seen a coach as stubborn as Herm, he IS going to lose this team if it doesnt change.

FringeNC
11-22-2007, 09:37 PM
If there's one thing Mike Martz is known for, it's definitely keeping his QB's from getting killed. That's for sure.

Herm is just as bad. Huard and Green took a pounding the last two years, and to a large extent, it was because Herm did the run-run-pass-punt thing. The surest way to get your QB killed is by being predictable, getting yourself in a bunch of third and longs because of it, then throwing.

There simply is no silver lining to Herm's destruction of the offense. Nothing has been gained. It's not a scheme that scales well when talent improves -- in contrast to 2001 -- where we didn't have the talent to effectively run Vermeil's offense. When we did get the talent -- boom, the guys already knew the system.

KC Tattoo
11-22-2007, 10:09 PM
Herm is just as bad. Huard and Green took a pounding the last two years, and to a large extent, it was because Herm did the run-run-pass-punt thing. The surest way to get your QB killed is by being predictable, getting yourself in a bunch of third and longs because of it, then throwing.

There simply is no silver lining to Herm's destruction of the offense. Nothing has been gained. It's not a scheme that scales well when talent improves -- in contrast to 2001 -- where we didn't have the talent to effectively run Vermeil's offense. When we did get the talent -- boom, the guys already knew the system.


Considering Herms history with QBs getting hurt, I pray for Brodie.

Mecca
11-22-2007, 10:11 PM
Mike Martz also has a history of developing QB's into good players......even no namers like Warner and Bulger.

KCJohnny
11-22-2007, 11:00 PM
Mike Martz also has a history of developing QB's into good players......even no namers like Warner and Bulger.

True, but they wind up with big stats, losing seasons, and eventually get injured. There's no guage for measuring how it affects their ability to stay in the pocket and complete the progression of reads, either. After getting unloaded on game after game after game, human nature leads one to look for the quick dumpoff or throw the ball out of bounds to avoid another plowing.

I think Mike Martz + a competent FB = success.

blueballs
11-22-2007, 11:04 PM
another Herm basher
not against Herm bashers
just the one trick pony ones