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View Full Version : A column about Herm Edwards by Nicholas Athan


Douche Baggins
11-23-2007, 10:30 PM
I agree with Nick. One of the best things he's ever written.

http://kan.scout.com/2/704791.html

Itís Raiders week and usually that brings Chiefs fans to Arrowhead Stadium in droves. They spill over in their distaste for Al Davis and his band of silver and black pirates.

But this week, with the focus of Chiefs fans centered on the retirement of Priest Holmes and the border war, some have found time to take shots at Herm Edwards. The reality of the situation is that everyone needs to wake up and realize the Chiefs are in transition Ė thereís only so much one man can do.

I like Edwards. Heís been easy to talk with, approachable, honest, and is committed to getting this team back to a Super Bowl.

But some people feel the need to create websites dedicated to his dismissal, such as firehermedwards.com. Many people assume Edwards is the problem in Kansas City, but heís exactly the opposite. Heís trying to fix problems that bad drafting and poor coaching created before his arrival.

A lesser man mightíve looked at the division in Kansas Cityís aging locker room and told Carl Peterson, ďthanks, but no thanks.Ē Instead, Edwards took on the challenge of changing everything thatís wrong with this football team.

In year one he went to the playoffs. In year two the Chiefs have a chance to win the AFC West.

This is all part of the process, and if this football team is going to make Arrowhead a palace of pain again for opposing teams and learn to consistently win on the road, seasons like this are necessary.

Edwards is in the process of making changes. At the moment heís breaking in a young quarterback for a franchise that hasnít had one in 20 years, and doing it with a lame duck offensive coordinator. The good news is fans wonít have to put up with the same thing next year, because this offense will be overhauled in 2008.

To crucify Edwards at this stage of his coaching tenure is insane. Itís flat out stupid to be honest with you, because heís paying for the sins of everyone else in the organization right now.

Edwards has done a good job of stabilizing a defense thatís playing great football despite the fact itís nowhere close to a finished product. Itíll be outstanding next year with another influx of talent through free agency and the draft.

But all everyone wants to talk about is this season. Edwards is expected to make his offense purr like a Ferrari while it lacks its top two running backs and functions with two-fifths of an offensive line, a young quarterback and a rookie wide receiver.

Heís not a magician, folks.

He is a motivator, and he has a plan to resurrect this franchise. It generally takes a coach a couple of years to rebuild a roster. Edwards deserves a pass this season, and in my book heís the best man for the job.

pr_capone
11-23-2007, 10:34 PM
nice work getting around the word filter

L.A. Chieffan
11-23-2007, 10:35 PM
He's right, Herm is doing a fantastic job. Coach of the year material if you ask me.

MOhillbilly
11-23-2007, 10:39 PM
Nichalos is a girls name. and/or a gaymuslimterroristnecropyropedo.

deedoodoodoo

blueballs
11-23-2007, 10:42 PM
THe defense was a laughing stock for several years
poor drafting left the offence with no depth
Edwards may not be the answer but he ain't the problem either

Fruit Ninja
11-23-2007, 10:44 PM
Herm is a good coach from Monday through Friday, on Sunday's he's been suspect. I think he has made 2 horrible mistakes in back to back games. Again, this team should be 6-4. He has been way to patient with leaving Huard in there. He also is pretty damn dumb for wanting to see if Payton Manning can beat his defense. Oh well, maybe he's playing for draft picks? who knows.

Thrillhouse
11-23-2007, 10:45 PM
Man, he's almost as bad as that Clayton Wendler hack at WPI. Almost.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-23-2007, 10:45 PM
I like Herm. I've gone on record saying I think he could take us to the Super Bowl if he was able to do his job unimpeded. That said, talking about us being in contention for the division this year is pretty manipulative. This division is the worst it's been since I've started watching football seriously. That's been about 20 years. I'll be amazed if we match last years 9-7 record. We're not moving forward. We're moving backward. I just feel I'm one of the few people that realize that sometimes you have to move backward before you move forward. The rest of Nick's article touched on that. Bad drafting and poor coaching have us where we're at right now, and it's going to take some work to undue all of that.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2007, 10:46 PM
Man, he's almost as bad as that Clayton Wendler hack at WPI. Almost.

Welcome, troll.

MOhillbilly
11-23-2007, 10:47 PM
Man, he's almost as bad as that Clayton Wendler hack at WPI. Almost.

clayton=nichalos

like=like

blueballs
11-23-2007, 10:48 PM
I believe Herm can build a winning team
I believe Herm can coach up players
I don't believe Herm can make the game time calls

chiefbowe82
11-23-2007, 10:48 PM
sometimes during the games i'd like to wonder what the hell he's doing and and knock some sense into him. But at the end of the day I really appreciate what he's done and the direction of this football team.

blueballs
11-23-2007, 10:51 PM
If he could get a DC and OC to trust with the game time decisions
and let them run the show -the one good thing about Vermeil
Herm could be a winner

Fruit Ninja
11-23-2007, 10:56 PM
I believe Herm can build a winning team
I believe Herm can coach up players
I don't believe Herm can make the game time callsI approve of this post.

chiefbowe82
11-23-2007, 11:01 PM
If he could get a DC and OC to trust with the game time decisions
and let them run the show -the one good thing about Vermeil
Herm could be a winner

Gunther and Herm and fine together, now i'm right with Herm, they need to continue to build up Croyle and my suggestion is: First round LT, Number 1 priority in free agency LG, keep weigman split time with niswanger, keep waters, and move McIntosh to RT with competiton from another RT drafted.

blueballs
11-23-2007, 11:05 PM
Gunther and Herm and fine together, now i'm right with Herm, they need to continue to build up Croyle and my suggestion is: First round LT, Number 1 priority in free agency LG, keep weigman split time with niswanger, keep waters, and move McIntosh to RT with competiton from another RT drafted.


Herm has got to replace Solari with a proven commodity
and stay the **** away from that wing of the building

chiefbowe82
11-23-2007, 11:08 PM
Herm has got to replace Solari with a proven commodity
and stay the **** away from that wing of the building

I wouldn't disagree that Solari needs to be replaced.

blueballs
11-23-2007, 11:11 PM
I wouldn't disagree that Solari needs to be replaced.

The new OC needs to pick his own staff
Peterson can stay the **** away from those decisions
Dick Curl is going to be a fly in the oinment

chiefbowe82
11-23-2007, 11:16 PM
The new OC needs to pick his own staff
Peterson can stay the **** away from those decisions
Dick Curl is going to be a fly in the oinment

yeah Dick can go as well.

Luzap
11-24-2007, 07:38 AM
"Edwards is in the process of making changes. At the moment heís breaking in a young quarterback for a franchise that hasnít had one in 20 years, and doing it with a lame duck offensive coordinator. The good news is fans wonít have to put up with the same thing next year, because this offense will be overhauled in 2008."


Is Solari a lame duck? Is this an opinion or has someone in the organization alluded to this? Also, overhauling the offense means exactly what?

Luz
anyone know the answers???...

StcChief
11-24-2007, 08:51 AM
Solari is NOT an OC he's proved it this year. Play calling? What....

maybe Herm/Carl are reigning him in, I doubt it. Stick with OL dude.

chiefforlife
11-24-2007, 09:12 AM
You sure are letting Herm off the hook arent you? Who hired the "lame duck" OC in the first place? Hiring another one next year should buy Herm another couple years of "its not his fault".
Coddling Brodie the rest of the year is not going to help him much either, why not let him make his mistakes in a season that we arent going anywhere. Lets see what he is capable of now, heck we may be surprised.
Not too many coaches get to take over a 14-2 team such as Norv or a good team like Dallas for Wade Phillips.
Herm took over a 10-6 team with some aging veterans, lets stop pretending he was handed the Dolphins. Most coaches face many more problems when they are hired, look at Lane Kiffin.
Im not ready to fire Herm just yet, 2 years is not enough. I also am not going to give him a "pass" on this year as you say he deserves.

Phobia
11-24-2007, 09:18 AM
If Herm would stop doing stupid crap during the games, people would stop calling for his head. It's really as simple as that. Stop going to the lockerroom with 1:30 on the clock and 3 timeouts. Take a few chances. It's not rocket science out there.

go bowe
11-24-2007, 09:27 AM
i think maby herm has a thing for solari...

nttawwt...

FringeNC
11-24-2007, 09:33 AM
I don't see how anyone can support Herm Edwards. His strategy is fundamentally flawed. It is almost impossible to be as risk-averse as Herm and beat good teams consistently. Suppose Herm had a team equal to Dallas -- Dallas would win 9 out 10 times because the Dallas coaching staff doesn't leave points on the table.

KC Tattoo
11-24-2007, 09:34 AM
You sure are letting Herm off the hook arent you? Who hired the "lame duck" OC in the first place? Hiring another one next year should buy Herm another couple years of "its not his fault".
Coddling Brodie the rest of the year is not going to help him much either, why not let him make his mistakes in a season that we arent going anywhere. Lets see what he is capable of now, heck we may be surprised.
Not too many coaches get to take over a 14-2 team such as Norv or a good team like Dallas for Wade Phillips.
Herm took over a 10-6 team with some aging veterans, lets stop pretending he was handed the Dolphins. Most coaches face many more problems when they are hired, look at Lane Kiffin.
Im not ready to fire Herm just yet, 2 years is not enough. I also am not going to give him a "pass" on this year as you say he deserves.


Yep. & I think Herm misses golden opportunities to take advantage of situations. He had a golden opportunity to switch QBs sooner and he didn't, he had an opportunity before half time against the Colts to "try" too score. I think he is more stubborn than "patient".

Extra Point
11-24-2007, 09:40 AM
Herm would make a great DB coach, or player personnel coordinator. He's not a game-time head coach.

kaplin42
11-24-2007, 11:26 AM
Herm has done a lot for the Defense, no one can argue that. But what this article ignores is the simple facts.

Had Herm said, we are rebuilding this year, then that might have set things up for the way they are now. But they came out and said they think they have a SB caliber team, today. That was a bold face lie.

On top of that, and completely understanding that the talent on the offense, especially the O-Line and QB were suspect at best, that still does not excuse the horrible game planning and offensive play calling. From the coaching staff, there is a complete lack of a desire to win, and if you don't believe it, I site the last several games where we go into the half by kneeling out the ball with a minute plus left and 3 timeouts. There is no urgency to win at all. To Herm, a 2 pt lead is good enough, and the D should understand that and protect that lead.

I know the media and the Chief's front office is warmiing up the bus and getting ready to sacrifice Solari, but all in all, it's Herm's team, and he okays the game plan. The sh't state of the O right now is in Herm's lap, albeit some of the players were left over from a crappy DV drafting era, and no matter how you dress it up, they are still serving crap on a plate.

Coogs
11-24-2007, 11:31 AM
If Herm would stop doing stupid crap during the games, people would stop calling for his head. It's really as simple as that. Stop going to the lockerroom with 1:30 on the clock and 3 timeouts. Take a few chances. It's not rocket science out there.


I don't have a problem with the 1:30 on the clock and not taking a chance. This place would have melted down if we go a quick 3-and-out with no time going off of the clock and Manning leading the Colts in for a score to end the half.

Now with 8:30 to go in the game and in a 10-10 tie.... that is the time to open up the offense.

Fruit Ninja
11-24-2007, 11:32 AM
If Herm would stop doing stupid crap during the games, people would stop calling for his head. It's really as simple as that. Stop going to the lockerroom with 1:30 on the clock and 3 timeouts. Take a few chances. It's not rocket science out there.
He plays scared. while it keeps you in the games, you dont win many of them.

He just lets his defense try to do everything for him. I know our Oline sucks, but my god. at least take a shot once in a while.

Skip Towne
11-24-2007, 11:35 AM
Athan is just as stupid as Herm is.

kcfan82
11-24-2007, 11:35 AM
I'm pro Edwards and anti CP......

Hopefully CP doens't put hand cuffs on another coach.

FAX
11-24-2007, 12:08 PM
Once Herm decides it's okay to make a valid, reasonable effort to gain first downs, he will be a much better football coach.

It's too bad somebody can even say that.

FAX

go bowe
11-24-2007, 12:23 PM
Gunther and Herm and fine together, now i'm right with Herm, they need to continue to build up Croyle and my suggestion is: First round LT, Number 1 priority in free agency LG, keep weigman split time with niswanger, keep waters, and move McIntosh to RT with competiton from another RT drafted.ummmm...

doesn't waters play lg?

and how is it that you think we need a lineman as our number one priority?

sure, it's a priority and i'm relatively sure that herm views it as a priority, but not the number one priority...

we have lots of holes on our team, too many to have been filled in one excellent draft (herm can draft, that seems obvious at this point)...

if we're gonna run between the tackles 90% of the time, we need some big brutes at center and right guard (brian still plays lg and will for some time)

casey is just too small to be real effectine in smashmouth football (however, his application to play arena football will be accepted, i'm pretty sure)...

Mecca
11-24-2007, 12:28 PM
We are about to turn into the Jets where every year we aren't that good but it isn't Herms fault and he blames players and coaches and gets rid of them...

Expect to go through 3-4 coordinators in 5 years....because it is NEVER Herm's fault just ask him.

FAX
11-24-2007, 12:31 PM
ummmm...

doesn't waters play lg?

and how is it that you think we need a lineman as our number one priority?

sure, it's a priority and i'm relatively sure that herm views it as a priority, but not the number one priority...

we have lots of holes on our team, too many to have been filled in one excellent draft (herm can draft, that seems obvious at this point)...

if we're gonna run between the tackles 90% of the time, we need some big brutes at center and right guard (brian still plays lg and will for some time)

casey is just too small to be real effectine in smashmouth football (however, his application to play arena football will be accepted, i'm pretty sure)...

At this point, I'd say that OL is definitely our number uno priority de jour, Mr. go bowe. Other than head coach, of course.

What did you have in mind?

FAX

Rain Man
11-24-2007, 12:39 PM
I agree with everyone on this thread who disagrees with Herman's philosophy, and disagree with everyone who agrees with his philosophy. I'm uncertain at this point about the people who are uncertain about his philosophy.

FAX
11-24-2007, 12:41 PM
So, that's a yes?

FAX

Douche Baggins
11-24-2007, 03:43 PM
Is Solari a lame duck? Is this an opinion or has someone in the organization alluded to this?

I can tell you this much: Nick wouldn't make that sort of statement if he hadn't been told something.

Phobia
11-24-2007, 03:46 PM
I can tell you this much: Nick wouldn't make that sort of statement if he hadn't been told something.
Oh jeez. Wow.

Skip Towne
11-24-2007, 03:48 PM
Oh jeez. Wow.
Really. If Goatse pimps Athan a few hundred more times I may start believing.

BigRock
11-24-2007, 04:05 PM
We are about to turn into the Jets where every year we aren't that good but it isn't Herms fault and he blames players and coaches and gets rid of them...

But if he's right about the players and coaches, who cares? This is my favorite development of the Herm Edwards era, the "Herm is throwing such and such under the bus" talk.

We just put up with YEARS of Dick Vermeil giving constant verbal handjobs to guys like Hicks and Warfield and GRob and other complete wastes of space who shouldn't even have been allowed in the building. It was embarrassing. And now, all of a sudden it's a bad thing that the head coach actually calls guys out or holds them accountable for not doing their jobs?

Forget that. If somebody sucks, I want to hear Herm say they suck. And I want to see that guy shipped out on the slow boat to Shanghai. The "Herm's throwing someone under the bus" crowd can go put on yellow cotton sundresses and skip around the town with their mommies.

KCChiefsFan88
11-24-2007, 04:16 PM
Is Bob Gretz okay with Athan plagarizing his columns?

Mecca
11-24-2007, 04:36 PM
But if he's right about the players and coaches, who cares? This is my favorite development of the Herm Edwards era, the "Herm is throwing such and such under the bus" talk.

We just put up with YEARS of Dick Vermeil giving constant verbal handjobs to guys like Hicks and Warfield and GRob and other complete wastes of space who shouldn't even have been allowed in the building. It was embarrassing. And now, all of a sudden it's a bad thing that the head coach actually calls guys out or holds them accountable for not doing their jobs?

Forget that. If somebody sucks, I want to hear Herm say they suck. And I want to see that guy shipped out on the slow boat to Shanghai. The "Herm's throwing someone under the bus" crowd can go put on yellow cotton sundresses and skip around the town with their mommies.

No No.....The Coordinator will do what Herm tells them to do, or wants them to do. Then when someone has to take blame he'll fire them and lay blame on them to bring a new guy and do the same thing....

In the end it's Herm but he will use other guys to take the fall.

unothadeal
11-24-2007, 04:37 PM
Isn't Word Filter Evasion a bannable offense?

Douche Baggins
11-24-2007, 04:37 PM
Is Bob Gretz okay with Athan plagarizing his columns?

Ho ho! KcChiefsfan88 made a funny!

Skip Towne
11-24-2007, 04:37 PM
But if he's right about the players and coaches, who cares? This is my favorite development of the Herm Edwards era, the "Herm is throwing such and such under the bus" talk.

We just put up with YEARS of Dick Vermeil giving constant verbal handjobs to guys like Hicks and Warfield and GRob and other complete wastes of space who shouldn't even have been allowed in the building. It was embarrassing. And now, all of a sudden it's a bad thing that the head coach actually calls guys out or holds them accountable for not doing their jobs?

Forget that. If somebody sucks, I want to hear Herm say they suck. And I want to see that guy shipped out on the slow boat to Shanghai. The "Herm's throwing someone under the bus" crowd can go put on yellow cotton sundresses and skip around the town with their mommies.
My favorite development of the Herm era will be the day he polishes the doorknob.

Douche Baggins
11-24-2007, 04:37 PM
Isn't Word Filter Evasion a bannable offense?

That depends on the word I would imagine.

Kerberos
11-24-2007, 04:47 PM
As I really don't like some of the plays Solari is calling I cannot help but think that some of this conservative crap is more Herm trying to keep his QB from getting killed by poor blocking.

Another thought might be that our offense sucks just enough that no matter WHAT plays are called it doesn't matter because they can't do more than what we are asking them to do NOW. It is obvious that our line is suspect and cannot run block to save thier asses as a group. We might have one or two guys that can actually block but it takes a whole line to block effectively.

Is Solari to blame for our line not blocking and our receivers like Parker dropping balls? Is Solari to blame when Herm overrides a play call and tells the offense to run instead?

Truth is we don't know IMO.

Solari may need to go, but I know if we don't do something to patch this gapping hole in our oline it won't matter who is calling the plays.

Dylan
11-24-2007, 05:56 PM
We are about to turn into the Jets where every year we aren't that good but it isn't Herms fault and he blames players and coaches and gets rid of them...

http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_1288.gif

FAX
11-24-2007, 06:04 PM
But if he's right about the players and coaches, who cares? This is my favorite development of the Herm Edwards era, the "Herm is throwing such and such under the bus" talk.

We just put up with YEARS of Dick Vermeil giving constant verbal handjobs to guys like Hicks and Warfield and GRob and other complete wastes of space who shouldn't even have been allowed in the building. It was embarrassing. And now, all of a sudden it's a bad thing that the head coach actually calls guys out or holds them accountable for not doing their jobs?

Forget that. If somebody sucks, I want to hear Herm say they suck. And I want to see that guy shipped out on the slow boat to Shanghai. The "Herm's throwing someone under the bus" crowd can go put on yellow cotton sundresses and skip around the town with their mommies.

I don't necessarily disagree with this point of view, Mr. BigRock. Problem is, Herm isn't really calling anyone out. He has said the offense sucks, but sticks with Huard in the face of insurmountable evidence that Downfield is the worst quarterback in the history of the league. He says we need more points, but makes few genuine, realistic efforts to gain a first down in crucial situations and takes the ball, 1:15, and 3 timeouts with him into the locker room at half time.

Lately, we've had hints that Solari is the next guy to walk into the drooling maw of Carl's cockatrice, but Herm hasn't (apparently) said a damn thing to Solari about running the 2 minute drill under 2 minutes.

Herm is a tool and a lying bastard coward of the first order.

FAX

OctoberFart
11-24-2007, 09:03 PM
People pay for this SH!T?

Douche Baggins
11-24-2007, 09:03 PM
People pay for this SH!T?

Absolutely not. This was 100% free.

milkman
11-24-2007, 09:16 PM
I like Herm.

I thought your mother raised you better than that.

Herman ****ing Edwards is a dumbass that needs to be kicked in his dumb ass as he's being kicked out the door.

scott free
11-24-2007, 09:27 PM
sometimes during the games i'd like to wonder what the hell he's doing and and knock some sense into him. But at the end of the day I really appreciate what he's done and the direction of this football team.

I totally agree.

I dont shy away from blasting Herm from time to time, sometimes he truly deserves it. He often comes across as smug & defiant when he should atleast admit that this or that didnt work & was a bad idea...other coaches do it all of the time.

But the truth of the matter is that he has not had enough time to assemble the team he wants...he's had to overhaul this roster on the fly, filling holes that were not of his making & trying to make up for lost time in the draft.

Put it this way, if we are 4-6 at this point next year & Brodie is throwing to the flat on 3rd & 12...i will personally lead the charge to have him put on the Slow Boat to Shanghai as BigRock put it.

But until then, because of all the GENUINE improvements he's made...he gets a pass from me. A year & a half is just NOT enough time to repair the mess that DV left us.

BigRock
11-24-2007, 10:24 PM
No No.....The Coordinator will do what Herm tells them to do, or wants them to do. Then when someone has to take blame he'll fire them and lay blame on them to bring a new guy and do the same thing....

In the end it's Herm but he will use other guys to take the fall.
If Mike Solari gets fired, it won't be because he did what Herm told him. It'll be because he sucked while doing what Herm told him. A competent coordinator could call plays with Herm's vision in mind and still call routes that are designed to send receivers past the sticks on 3rd and 5.

BigRock
11-24-2007, 10:33 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with this point of view, Mr. BigRock. Problem is, Herm isn't really calling anyone out.
That's actually part of my point. Herm doesn't really call anyone out... he's been dancing around how bad the offensive line is for the past few weeks without coming out and saying it. Yet we still get dozens of "Herm's throwing someone else under the bus" posts around here every week.

Can you imagine the reaction if he actually did go off on someone? People would be rocking back and forth in the fetal position until grandma kissed their little foreheads and tucked them in for a nap.

Well, nuts to that. I want to hear him go off. But at least he's not up there pulling a Vermeil, weeping openly and saying stuff like "he never gave up, that's a real football player for ya" about a lineman who'd just given up 5 sacks or a DB who got burned for 3 TDs.

TEX
11-24-2007, 10:37 PM
If Mike Solari gets fired, it won't be because he did what Herm told him. It'll be because he sucked while doing what Herm told him. A competent coordinator could call plays with Herm's vision in mind and still call routes that are designed to send receivers past the sticks on 3rd and 5.

And just what is Herm's vision? Do you or does ANYONE even know? Has he ever achieved his offensive vision anywhere he's been? How many OC's has he hired and then fired that didn't quite get his "vision." :hmmm:

Mecca
11-24-2007, 10:39 PM
We'll never have a competent OC because Herm doesn't want one. He hires guys he can tell what to do and then uses them as scapegoats.

milkman
11-24-2007, 10:50 PM
If Mike Solari gets fired, it won't be because he did what Herm told him. It'll be because he sucked while doing what Herm told him. A competent coordinator could call plays with Herm's vision in mind and still call routes that are designed to send receivers past the sticks on 3rd and 5.

Yeah.

I suppose he can design draw plays on 3rd and 18 that'll get 'em first downs and keep the chains moving, also.

I have little faith in Solari, but there isn't a coordinator that can overcome Herman ****ing Edwards' (lack of) vision.

scott free
11-24-2007, 11:35 PM
And just what is Herm's vision? Do you or does ANYONE even know?

Herm wants to be Jacksonville, thats what he wants. With the exception that we will have a FAR better QB in short order.

Anyone saying he doesnt want a strong O & a good OC are just plain full of shit...you may not like his style, I!!! dont always like his style...but he DOES want to win...it totally flies in the face of common sense to suggest otherwise.

Yeah, he wants the RB to be the focal point...but lets take a look at Chad Penningtons 2 best years under Herm...

02- 3120yds 7.8avg 22td 6int 104.2 rating.

04- 2673yds 7.2avg 16td 9int 91.0 rating.

Anything over 2500 yards means a solid dose of passing & anything over 7 yards per attempt is ROCK solid...it means he WAS taking shots downfield. Saying he doesnt want to put it in the air stands on nothing.

Like i said earlier, if the O looks like it does at this time next year...i'll buy into him just plain sucking. And i'll be the first to admit that its been GUTWRENCHING watching this O so far. But you can dice it up any way you like...the numbers say he DOES want to field an effective O, but to use a VERY tired saying around here (sorry, its late)..."you cant make chicken salad out of chicken shit"...& thats EXACTLY what several of our O personnel are right now.

Atleast 2 new linemen, a 2nd year Michael Allen, MAYBE a new #2 WR & a competent OC will change our fortunes.

Just give the man ONE more year to prove himself...i'll let one of you yahoozles pick my sig for the entire 08 season if we are 4-6 next year.

BigRock
11-24-2007, 11:49 PM
And just what is Herm's vision? Do you or does ANYONE even know?
I'll take a shot. Here's what I think it is: try to score some points. Much like Vermeil's defensive vision was: try to stop somebody. Of course, around here we act like Herm listens in on every single play call and vetos what he doesn't like, while Vermeil took off his headset and did a crossword puzzle when the defense was on the field.

How many OC's has he hired and then fired that didn't quite get his "vision." :hmmm:
One? That's another great topic, Herm and his coordinators. He hired 2 in NY, one when he first got the head coaching job, who he fired 3 years later. And the second being a guy who'd been running a top 10 offense, who his original team wanted to keep, who Herm hired away because he wanted his offense to get better.

In other words, hire #2 was exactly what a bunch of people here insist Herm has never done and wil never do. Even though, you know, he has.

Mecca
11-24-2007, 11:51 PM
Um didn't Herm go through 3 OC's in NY........I'm pretty sure he had Hackett, Raye and Heimerdinger...3 in 5 years is a track record of blaming other guys but yourself.

TEX
11-24-2007, 11:59 PM
I'll take a shot. Here's what I think it is: try to score some points. Much like Vermeil's defensive vision was: try to stop somebody. Of course, around here we act like Herm listens in on every single play call and vetos what he doesn't like, while Vermeil took off his headset and did a crossword puzzle when the defense was on the field.


One? That's another great topic, Herm and his coordinators. He hired 2 in NY, one when he first got the head coaching job, who he fired 3 years later. And the second being a guy who'd been running a top 10 offense, who his original team wanted to keep, who Herm hired away because he wanted his offense to get better.

In other words, hire #2 was exactly what a bunch of people here insist Herm has never done and wil never do. Even though, you know, he has.

And how does Herm want to score points? Does he have a plan for it? If so, name it. Stick to the topic which is Herm and NOT Vermail. Again, what is Herm's vision of a productive offense. It would be wise not to try and defend something that you don't know - especially when the person who you're trying to defend doesn't know either.

Go back and get your facts straight on his OC's. List ALL OC's hired during his tenure as HC. (Special Red Zone consultents included) Then go back and name the good/successful one's and the crappy ones. (I'll give you some answers- Paul Hackett, Jummy Raye and Mike Heimerdinger) Then go back and see if they were more successful/crappy with or without Herm. Then just give up and admit you're wrong because that's when you'll be right.

BigRock
11-25-2007, 12:03 AM
Raye wasn't the offensive coordinator, and Herm didn't fire him. He left to run the Raiders' offense under Norv.

BigRock
11-25-2007, 12:09 AM
And how does Herm want to score points? Does he have a plan for it?
Why are you asking me? Ask the people who keep insiting that Herm is forcing this "vision" onto his coordinators and then blaming them when it doesn't work.

And while you're at it, ask them if, say, coming out in the 2nd half against Denver and throwing 4 straight passes, 2 of which became Denver TDs, after Huard had a horrible first half passing and Denver has an awful rush defense, was part of Herm's vision or because our coordinator is an idiot.

Go back and get your facts straight on his OC's.
They're pretty straight as it is, thanks.

TEX
11-25-2007, 12:10 AM
Raye wasn't the offensive coordinator, and Herm didn't fire him. He left to run the Raiders' offense under Norv.

Technically true in title only. Raye was hired to help Hackett in the Red Zone. He still called plays. You realize that you're actually defending the guy who hired BOTH Paul Hackett and Jimmy Raye for the same offense... :shake:

Mecca
11-25-2007, 12:12 AM
We'll never have a good offense with Herm, God could be the OC with Jesus Christ as QB, and we'd still be like 18th.

TEX
11-25-2007, 12:13 AM
Why are you asking me? Ask the people who keep insiting that Herm is forcing this "vision" onto his coordinators and then blaming them when it doesn't work.

And while you're at it, ask them if, say, coming out in the 2nd half against Denver and throwing 4 straight passes, 2 of which became Denver TDs, after Huard had a horrible first half passing and Denver has an awful rush defense, was part of Herm's vision or because our coordinator is an idiot.


They're pretty straight as it is, thanks.

Our HC is the head idiot. Or OC is an idiot now too because he's been listening to the HC for almost 2 years now. It's better that way too so he won't feel the bus after Herm throws him under it.

BigRock
11-25-2007, 12:22 AM
Technically true in title only. Raye was hired to help Hackett in the Red Zone. He still called plays. You realize that you're actually defending the guy who hired BOTH Paul Hackett and Jimmy Raye for the same offense... :shake:
I'm defending the facts, which certain people here seem unaware of. I won't name any names.

It doesn't matter if Jimmy Raye wore a crown on his head that read "OFFENSIVE GENIUS" and called every single play while using Hackett as a human foot stool. HERM DID NOT FIRE HIM. So in no way whatsoever does Raye fit this "How many coordinators did Herm go through in NY?? He threw them all under the bus!!11!!!" talk.

HonestChieffan
11-25-2007, 06:39 AM
Herm is head coach....ok so he cannot go spend money without limit and he cannot have superbowl quality folks in one season...we can buy that.

He can choose his staff. He clearly cannot, did not, and wont admit that he has a staff issue that wont be explained away with this rebuilding grabage. Solari, Curl...garbage. If we like herms choices, we get Herm like results.

Herm is easy to replace so I say clean house. Id fire him after todays game. Wait we havent lost yet have we....

Douche Baggins
11-25-2007, 07:06 AM
Solari was NOT Herm's choice.

milkman
11-25-2007, 07:09 AM
Solari was NOT Herm's choice.

So you're saying that Herman ****ing Edwards didn't have the balls to stand up to Carl.

That's not surprising.

His coaching style is without balls.

TEX
11-25-2007, 07:37 AM
I'm defending the facts, which certain people here seem unaware of. I won't name any names.

It doesn't matter if Jimmy Raye wore a crown on his head that read "OFFENSIVE GENIUS" and called every single play while using Hackett as a human foot stool. HERM DID NOT FIRE HIM. So in no way whatsoever does Raye fit this "How many coordinators did Herm go through in NY?? He threw them all under the bus!!11!!!" talk.

Raye "left" before he and Paul were replaced. So we'll stick to the facts -How many did he hire? How many did he fire? How many did he not to re-hire? How many years was he in New York?

FACT is the only good hire was Mike Heimerdinger and he wasn't offered a new contract because Herm QUIT on his team during his disasterious final season.

TEX
11-25-2007, 07:49 AM
Solari was NOT Herm's choice.


True. Maybe his failing is Herm's way of saying,"I told ya so." Herm has publicly poked jabs at DV's offense. The fact remains that Herm called Solari out in the very begining which marked a change in philosophy. Once that happened, Mike was out of his element and he was in over his head. He was retained to keep DV's offense, not create a whole new one. I also understand that we lost a great deal of offensive talent due to retirement and "getting younger" but there was not a huge effort in trying to acquire players on offense who had similar skills in order to keep the "system" going. Anyway, that's my opinion.


Why does Herm ALWAYS seem to have issues on offense wherever he goes? :hmmm:

Phobia
11-25-2007, 07:53 AM
Why are you asking me? Ask the people who keep insiting that Herm is forcing this "vision" onto his coordinators and then blaming them when it doesn't work.

And while you're at it, ask them if, say, coming out in the 2nd half against Denver and throwing 4 straight passes, 2 of which became Denver TDs, after Huard had a horrible first half passing and Denver has an awful rush defense, was part of Herm's vision or because our coordinator is an idiot.


They're pretty straight as it is, thanks.
Kudos for defending the facts. I'm not a big Herm fan but it drives me crazy when people come out and say that he does not want to score, win, or hire competent assistants. Those accusations are absolutely asinine.

TEX
11-25-2007, 08:01 AM
Kudos for defending the facts. I'm not a big Herm fan but it drives me crazy when people come out and say that he does not want to score, win, or hire competent assistants. Those accusations are absolutely asinine.

I agree. Sure he wants to win and score points, but he does seem to have a hard time hiring competent offensive assistants for whatever reason. And when he does, they don't look too competent, so something is wrong there.

Luzap
11-25-2007, 08:55 AM
I guess people just want to vent. Either that, or their egos are so huge they actually believe half the stuff they're writing.

Herm has spelled out almost exactly what the situation is and other writers on the Chiefs websites have filled in any holes. It's very simple:

Our OLine sucks and Huard is only good enough to manage a game, not take it over.
Yes, play calling is an issue and we're working on it (we're not going to change OCs mid season).
Yes, we want to develop Brody for the future, but we're scared to death that a) he'll get injured behind this line, and b) he'll lose his confidence and be 'ruined'.

All of the complaints stem from these three basic things ~ all of which the Chiefs have more or less openly said. Those of you that think a HC can come always out and openly name names of players/coaches that are underperforming understand nothing about leadership and are living in a fantasy land.

Luz
the ones that want to rant just don't care what the truth is...

BigRock
11-25-2007, 11:02 AM
Raye "left" before he and Paul were replaced.
He "left" to take a "promotion" and "more money" with another team.

So we'll stick to the facts
Finally!

How many did he hire?
Coordinators? Well, two, since no matter how you want to try to spin it, Raye wasn't their OC.

How many did he fire?
One, as I said about 40 posts ago. This hasn't changed.

How many did he not to re-hire?
I don't understand the question.

How many years was he in New York?
What is this now, Herm Edwards trivia? What position did he play? What's his wife's name?

FACT is the only good hire was Mike Heimerdinger
True. Tell that some of the people who keep insisting that Herm would never or has never hired a good coordinator. Because it's wrong.

and he wasn't offered a new contract because Herm QUIT on his team during his disasterious final season.
Mike Heimerdinger disagrees.

kaplin42
11-25-2007, 02:03 PM
Herm has done a lot for the Defense, no one can argue that. But what this article ignores is the simple facts.

Had Herm said, we are rebuilding this year, then that might have set things up for the way they are now. But they came out and said they think they have a SB caliber team, today. That was a bold face lie.

On top of that, and completely understanding that the talent on the offense, especially the O-Line and QB were suspect at best, that still does not excuse the horrible game planning and offensive play calling. From the coaching staff, there is a complete lack of a desire to win, and if you don't believe it, I site the last several games where we go into the half by kneeling out the ball with a minute plus left and 3 timeouts. There is no urgency to win at all. To Herm, a 2 pt lead is good enough, and the D should understand that and protect that lead.

I know the media and the Chief's front office is warmiing up the bus and getting ready to sacrifice Solari, but all in all, it's Herm's team, and he okays the game plan. The sh't state of the O right now is in Herm's lap, albeit some of the players were left over from a crappy DV drafting era, and no matter how you dress it up, they are still serving crap on a plate.

My above point is made totally and completely by this game against the raiders.

And again, bad coaching lost this game. Herm should be a D coordinator, not a head coach. He is pathetic.