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View Full Version : Why isn't Hawaii ranked higher?


BigMeatballDave
11-24-2007, 05:30 AM
I know they haven't beaten anyone, but neither has Kansas. What gives?

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2007, 05:31 AM
Hawaii should move into the top 10 now that they beat Boise St.

Tribal Warfare
11-24-2007, 06:10 AM
Why isn't Hawaii ranked higher?

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it has to be the weed

splatbass
11-24-2007, 06:11 AM
Hawaii doesn't get much respect because they play in the WAC. I missed the game yesterday because I'm traveling. Sounds like I missed a good one.

I'm sitting at the gate at KCI right now and it is snowing. I'll be real happy to get home.

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2007, 06:24 AM
Because they hadn't played anyone and struggled against the likes of Louisiana Tech, San Jose State, Fresno State and Nevada. They're not a top-10 team and would get embarrassed in a BCS game.

kstater
11-24-2007, 06:31 AM
Because they hadn't played anyone and struggled against the likes of Louisiana Tech, San Jose State, Fresno State and Nevada. They're not a top-10 team and would get embarrassed in a BCS game.


Kind of like Boise State last year?

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2007, 06:48 AM
They're not a top-10 team and would get embarrassed in a BCS game.Yep, thats what everyone thought about the Broncos a year ago...

Swanman
11-24-2007, 06:53 AM
For me, the jury is still out until they play Washington next week. If they lose to a mediocre PAC 10 team, then I'll know they aren't ready for primetime. If they demolish Washington, then I'll give them respect as a possible BCS worthy team (until LSU beats them 75-3 in the Sugar Bowl).

The problem with both Hawaii and Boise State this year is their horrific strength of schedules. Before this weeks games, Boise's was 122 and Hawaii's was 153 according to the Sagarin ratings (KU's was 101, reinforcing that they haven't played anybody). It's tough to give too much credit to a team in Hawaii who has a weaker SOS than 33 Division I-AA teams (only 119 teams in 1-A).

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2007, 06:57 AM
The problem with both Hawaii and Boise State this year is their horrific strength of schedules. Before this weeks games, Boise's was 122 and Hawaii's was 153 according to the Sagarin ratings (KU's was 101, reinforcing that they haven't played anybody). It's tough to give too much credit to a team in Hawaii who has a weaker SOS than 33 Division I-AA teams (only 119 teams in 1-A).Where do you find these rankings?

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2007, 07:00 AM
Kind of like Boise State last year?

So because it happened last year, means it will happen this year? Maybe if they get to play OU.

the Talking Can
11-24-2007, 07:04 AM
Because they hadn't played anyone and struggled against the likes of Louisiana Tech, San Jose State, Fresno State and Nevada. They're not a top-10 team and would get embarrassed in a BCS game.

you and mecca are two bitter little pills, aren't you?

I mean, the mighty Arkansas and Stanford would win the Big 12....

Spott
11-24-2007, 07:06 AM
Utah won a BCS game a couple of years ago, too. I don't think Hawaii has looked as good during the regular season as Boise St and Utah, but I wouldn't be shocked if they beat a BCS team.

If we had a real NFL head coach and a decent OC, I would gladly take Brennan as our QBOTF.

CoMoChief
11-24-2007, 07:08 AM
I know they haven't beaten anyone, but neither has Kansas. What gives?
Rockhurst, Blue Springs, Blue Springs South >>>>>> Any team in the WAC

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2007, 07:09 AM
you and mecca are two bitter little pills, aren't you?

I mean, the mighty Arkansas and Stanford would win the Big 12....

When did I say anything about the Big XII in this thread? Are you suggesting that a team from the WAC would win the SEC?

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2007, 07:09 AM
http://www.gberatings.com/sos/

http://teamrankings.com/ncf/27powerratings.php3

Al Bundy
11-24-2007, 07:10 AM
you and mecca are two bitter little pills, aren't you?

I mean, the mighty Arkansas and Stanford would win the Big 12....

Thats what they would like to think.. truth of the matter is I would think either KU or MU would beat any team from the SEC this year.

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2007, 07:12 AM
Thats what they would like to think.. truth of the matter is I would think either KU or MU would beat any team from the SEC this year.

Just as KU/MU fans have the right to think they're team is great, I think Florida would beat any Big XII team. But, I'm not talking about Big XII/SEC in this thread. This thread is about Hawaii and I'm stating I don't think they're a top 10 team.

kstater
11-24-2007, 07:14 AM
So because it happened last year, means it will happen this year? Maybe if they get to play OU.


I'm not saying it would happen again this year. I'm just saying they deserve a shot. They are undefeated. You're saying they shouldn't get to a BCS game.

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2007, 07:17 AM
I'm not saying it would happen again this year. I'm just saying they deserve a shot. They are undefeated. You're saying they shouldn't get to a BCS game.

My opinion might change if they handle their business against Washington. I don't think Hawaii is on the same level as any top-10 team with maybe the exception of Virginia Tech.

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2007, 07:20 AM
http://teamrankings.com/ncf/27powerratings.php3This is the bottom nine from that site.

111. Houston (6-4) -0.238
112. Air Force (8-3) -0.246
113. Nevada (4-4) -0.255
114. Central Florida (7-3) -0.285
115. Southern Miss (5-4) -0.296
116. Tulsa (8-3) -0.305
117. Kansas (10-0) -0.377
118. Boise State (7-1) -0.513
119. Hawaii (8-0) -0.578

I am not bashing KU. Just trying to make a point.

CupidStunt
11-24-2007, 07:29 AM
It's all about matchups.

Hawaii would get killed in a BCS game... if it faced a team like MU or WVU.

But if it had the fortune of facing a team like Ohio State or LSU, it would do well.

chief52
11-24-2007, 08:00 AM
On a scheduling note, why doesn't Kansas schedule anyone? I surely think it does not help their program. You gotta play the best to be the best. Those four early home games are a joke, and next season they have Florida International, Louisiana Tech and Sam Houston State at home and play at South Florida. Time for them to seriously improve their schedule if they want to play with the big boys.

Stewie
11-24-2007, 08:06 AM
On a scheduling note, why doesn't Kansas schedule anyone? I surely think it does not help their program. You gotta play the best to be the best. Those four early home games are a joke, and next season they have Florida International, Louisiana Tech and Sam Houston State at home and play at South Florida. Time for them to seriously improve their schedule if they want to play with the big boys.

It's stupid to have a tough non-con schedule. Maybe one semi-tough game, but no more.

Here's Ohio State's non-con schedule. I don't hear people chiming in about how they don't schedule tough opponents.

Akron
Youngstown State
Kent State
Washington

chief52
11-24-2007, 08:17 AM
It's stupid to have a tough non-con schedule. Maybe one semi-tough game, but no more.



I definitely do not agree with the line of thought... If you want to hang with the big boys you got to play them. Maybe slip in one easy one, but 4? Hurts your program IMO.

Yes, Ohio State's is weak. Cal played Tennessee, Colorado St. and Louisiana Tech. USC played Idaho, at Nebraska and Notre Dame. While Nebraska and Notre Dame were down this year, as a rule they are not. You gotta schedule a lot more than what Kansas did this year if you want to improve your program.

kstater
11-24-2007, 08:21 AM
On a scheduling note, why doesn't Kansas schedule anyone? I surely think it does not help their program. You gotta play the best to be the best. Those four early home games are a joke, and next season they have Florida International, Louisiana Tech and Sam Houston State at home and play at South Florida. Time for them to seriously improve their schedule if they want to play with the big boys.

Prior to their run this year, the KU goal was to reach a bowl game. Win 4 nonconference games(prior years this was no gimme) and you only have to win 2 conference games. As to next years non conference schedule, that was set almost a year ago. Again I still believe that while KU is a good team next year, they are going to want those 4 easy games next year. Their conference schedule gets a lot more difficult next year. This year was a perfect storm for them.

DomerNKC
11-24-2007, 08:24 AM
It's stupid to have a tough non-con schedule. Maybe one semi-tough game, but no more.

Here's Ohio State's non-con schedule. I don't hear people chiming in about how they don't schedule tough opponents.

Akron
Youngstown State
Kent State
WashingtonNo matter how tough your schedule is, people will pick out a couple of games and say you don't play anybody. Hawaii has a lot to prove, but so does Kansas. How Kansas does today will determine how they are treated in the future. I would like to see Kansas win out. Missouri could go a long way with a win today too. They are both Cinderella stories and that is cool. You can only wear the slipper once though. The WAC and Big East teams try the same formula each year and it is a tired story. (Weak conference, weaker non-con) Kansas will have to bulk up its non-con now that it is at the table with the big boys, but they have brought a breath of fresh air to this season. Rock on MU and KU!

chief52
11-24-2007, 08:25 AM
Prior to their run this year, the KU goal was to reach a bowl game. Win 4 nonconference games(prior years this was no gimme) and you only have to win 2 conference games. As to next years non conference schedule, that was set almost a year ago. Again I still believe that while KU is a good team next year, they are going to want those 4 easy games next year. Their conference schedule gets a lot more difficult next year. This year was a perfect storm for them.

Yes, I do realize schedules are made way ahead of time. Years ahead of time actually. It just seems like you can not improve by playing teams that are so far below your level.

Stewie
11-24-2007, 08:28 AM
I definitely do not agree with the line of thought... If you want to hang with the big boys you got to play them. Maybe slip in one easy one, but 4? Hurts your program IMO.

Yes, Ohio State's is weak. Cal played Tennessee, Colorado St. and Louisiana Tech. USC played Idaho, at Nebraska and Notre Dame. While Nebraska and Notre Dame were down this year, as a rule they are not. You gotta schedule a lot more than what Kansas did this year if you want to improve your program.

Ummm... I'm pretty sure Mangino has improved KU by leaps and bounds. That KU football is even being discussed at this point is amazing, much less being #2 in the nation. He's just using the Bill Snyder/KState approach to build a winner.

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2007, 08:31 AM
Here's Ohio State's non-con schedule. I don't hear people chiming in about how they don't schedule tough opponents.

Akron
Youngstown State
Kent State
As a Buckeye fan, that is sad. However, I heard Tressel put these 3 on there because he last coached at Youngstown St. Just trying to get the schools a little extra dough...

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2007, 08:34 AM
It's stupid to have a tough non-con schedule. Maybe one semi-tough game, but no more.

Here's Ohio State's non-con schedule. I don't hear people chiming in about how they don't schedule tough opponents.

Akron
Youngstown State
Kent State
Washington

This year OSU's non-con is a joke. However, last year they played Texas and next year they play USC.

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2007, 08:38 AM
This year OSU's non-con is a joke. I agree, though not as bad as Kansas...

Lzen
11-24-2007, 08:40 AM
On a scheduling note, why doesn't Kansas schedule anyone? I surely think it does not help their program. You gotta play the best to be the best. Those four early home games are a joke, and next season they have Florida International, Louisiana Tech and Sam Houston State at home and play at South Florida. Time for them to seriously improve their schedule if they want to play with the big boys.

I posted about this in the Hawaii vs KU thread.

You know what? This whole KU schedule thing is getting stupid. Here's something that I read on another bb.

....two thirds of the BCS poll is still decided on by humans so public opinion counts quite a bit....

Looking at the non-con, KU played a team in Central Michigan that went 10-2 last year, won it's league and won it's bowl game. They also played Toledo to whom KU lost last year, so I'm sure at the time nobody was thinking of them as a cupcake. Florida International was a replacement for South Florida who postponed their game to next year, and Louisiana Tech was probably a cupcake just like every other team likes to schedule.....


The way I understand it, KU blew out the cupcakes and Hawaii struggled with bad teams. That is the main difference. Just because the scores at aTm and CU were close at the end does not mean the games were really that close. If you watched those games, you knew KU was in control throughout.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=174979

Demonpenz
11-24-2007, 09:23 AM
So if you lose to a shitty team the year before it counts as a good game?

Lzen
11-24-2007, 09:27 AM
So if you lose to a shitty team the year before it counts as a good game?

That was not what was meant. The Toledo series with KU started in 2004, I believe. And they were good teams when KU started with this series. But let's go ahead and focus on just one team in KU's non con. :rolleyes:

Spott
11-24-2007, 09:30 AM
This year OSU's non-con is a joke. However, last year they played Texas and next year they play USC.

UF has a really tough non-conference schedule every year. I heard a rumor once that they actually considered traveling out of Florida for a non-conference game.

Crashride
11-24-2007, 11:45 AM
I know they haven't beaten anyone, but neither has Kansas. What gives?

Because you touch yourself at night.

Fruit Ninja
11-24-2007, 11:48 AM
Utah won a BCS game a couple of years ago, too. I don't think Hawaii has looked as good during the regular season as Boise St and Utah, but I wouldn't be shocked if they beat a BCS team.

If we had a real NFL head coach and a decent OC, I would gladly take Brennan as our QBOTF.
I think Brennan is going to be a good one. Quick release, reads the field well, has a cannon for an arm. He's also very evasive.

Demonpenz
11-24-2007, 11:48 AM
That was not what was meant. The Toledo series with KU started in 2004, I believe. And they were good teams when KU started with this series. But let's go ahead and focus on just one team in KU's non con. :rolleyes:


I don't care. Cream puffs are awesome. Who doesn't want their team to kick ass and get to a bowl every year. You can also see what some plays you wouldn't run in a close game look on film.

Mecca
11-24-2007, 11:54 AM
It's stupid to have a tough non-con schedule. Maybe one semi-tough game, but no more.

Here's Ohio State's non-con schedule. I don't hear people chiming in about how they don't schedule tough opponents.

Akron
Youngstown State
Kent State
Washington

Explain to me why SC who gets a pretty good bump from playing in one of the better conferences always schedules a good non con then?

We got Ohio State next year.....we've gone to Auburn when they were a top 15 team. It's every year we have good teams or teams that are generally good on our schedule, you don't see a bunch of no namers..

Is SC stupid?

Stewie
11-24-2007, 12:01 PM
Explain to me why SC who gets a pretty good bump from playing in one of the better conferences always schedules a good non con then?

We got Ohio State next year.....we've gone to Auburn when they were a top 15 team. It's every year we have good teams or teams that are generally good on our schedule, you don't see a bunch of no namers..

Is SC stupid?

Because losing one game can throw you out of the national title hunt. This year is an exception because it's been crazy, but I think this year is going to be more representative of college football going forward. The historical powerhouses don't have the advantage they used to have and it's confusing the national media. They liked their cushy jobs when they only had to focus on the same top 15 teams every year.

Mecca
11-24-2007, 12:05 PM
I think it's just because Pete Carroll and Mike Garrett have the balls to play anybody anywhere...

ROYC75
11-24-2007, 12:07 PM
I think it's just because Pete Carroll and Mike Garrett have the balls to pay anybody anywhere...


FYP.........

Mecca
11-24-2007, 12:09 PM
FYP.........

Oh har har......

So do you pay your basketball team then?

Skip Towne
11-24-2007, 12:59 PM
Yes, I do realize schedules are made way ahead of time. Years ahead of time actually. It just seems like you can not improve by playing teams that are so far below your level.
Do you think KU would be playing in this important a game if they lost a couple of those non con games? KU is taking baby steps to rebuild a once horrid program. Over the long term I would agree with you. But KU has to get established first.

pikesome
11-24-2007, 01:35 PM
1. KU is playing better than anyone would have thought and

2. Everyone else isn't handling their business.

It's been a weird season where everyone has screwed the pooch (LSU twice) and KU hasn't (yet, tonight we know).

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2007, 01:57 PM
UF has a really tough non-conference schedule every year.

We play Florida State every single year, alternating homefield. In 2003 we played at Miami, next year we host Miami and then we'll play there again in 2013. Next year we also play Hawaii as an OOC game.

Yeah, they've been down the past couple years but Miami and Fla St are not gimmie OOC games.

CupidStunt
11-24-2007, 02:23 PM
And UF was too scared to schedule a H&H with Hawaii.

You can hang your hat on UF's in-conference schedule, DaKC, but don't try and defend their OOC schedule. It's pussy.

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2007, 02:27 PM
And UF was too scared to schedule a H&H with Hawaii.

You can hang your hat on UF's in-conference schedule, DaKC, but don't try and defend their OOC schedule. It's pussy.

Do we play Texas, USC, OSU ooc? No. But any given year Miami/Fla State is no pansy ass ooc schedule. I don't know why we're talking about UF's OOC schedule on a thread about Hawaii.

This year our OOC is/was tougher than KU, Hawaii, OSU and others. I'm not ashamed about it.

As far as a H/H with Hawaii, are we supposed to play only 6 games at home? You and I both know it's all about money and UF isn't giving up a home game.

pikesome
11-24-2007, 02:32 PM
You and I both know it's all about money and UF isn't giving up a home game.

I think this is a big part of the thinking even with the idea of "cupcakes". Money plays a big part in scheduling too.

HolmeZz
11-24-2007, 02:38 PM
Kind of like Boise State last year?

Nobody should've expected Boise State to get embarrassed by Oklahoma. The Sooners were not that great last year and Boise State was a much much better team than Hawaii is this year.

Bearcat
11-24-2007, 03:04 PM
This is the bottom nine from that site.

111. Houston (6-4) -0.238
112. Air Force (8-3) -0.246
113. Nevada (4-4) -0.255
114. Central Florida (7-3) -0.285
115. Southern Miss (5-4) -0.296
116. Tulsa (8-3) -0.305
117. Kansas (10-0) -0.377
118. Boise State (7-1) -0.513
119. Hawaii (8-0) -0.578

I am not bashing KU. Just trying to make a point.


Obviously, not to say KU's is good by any means, but it's pretty bad when there's a .2 difference between #99 and 117, and then a .2 diference between 117 and 119.

The BCS accounts for your record plus your opponents' records, so it accounts for one conference being better than another... basically saying "our chumps are better than your chumps".

Thank god we can stop talking about all of this in the next 8 hours.

barry_smilez20
11-24-2007, 03:34 PM
i think hawaii should be in the national championship

Spott
11-24-2007, 03:39 PM
We play Florida State every single year, alternating homefield. In 2003 we played at Miami, next year we host Miami and then we'll play there again in 2013. Next year we also play Hawaii as an OOC game.

Yeah, they've been down the past couple years but Miami and Fla St are not gimmie OOC games.


Funny, none of those games are out of the state of Florida.

DomerNKC
11-24-2007, 03:46 PM
FYP............dude, that was bush league.

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2007, 04:40 PM
Because you touch yourself at night.LMAO No kidding. WTF?

Stewie
11-24-2007, 04:46 PM
Obviously, not to say KU's is good by any means, but it's pretty bad when there's a .2 difference between #99 and 117, and then a .2 diference between 117 and 119.

The BCS accounts for your record plus your opponents' records, so it accounts for one conference being better than another... basically saying "our chumps are better than your chumps".

Thank god we can stop talking about all of this in the next 8 hours.

The strength of schedule is kind of a joke. Look at who's at the top of the list... Duke! Heck, Oklahoma is pretty damn low in SOS. The problem with SOS is that the really good teams can't play against themselves, but anyone who plays them jumps way up the list.