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View Full Version : So can someone tell us the last season Herm's offense hasnt gotten a QB killed?


Reerun_KC
11-29-2007, 09:07 AM
With the thread about Croyle possibly not starting sunday, anyone know when Herms offense hasnt had a QB smoked by the end of the season?

cadmonkey
11-29-2007, 09:09 AM
I think it was around two thousand and never.

Simplex3
11-29-2007, 09:40 AM
Buy some tickets! See the next QB get slaughtered! Be there when a guy's head finally pops off in the field of play!

[/Carl]

The Bad Guy
11-29-2007, 10:01 AM
Yep. It's Herm's fault that Carl didn't prepare for the retirement of Roaf and Shields. Herm should really find the fountain of youth.

Can someone tell me when Reetard has ever posted anything of substance on this board?

bobbything
11-29-2007, 10:05 AM
Herm Edwards sucks as a gametime coach and talks without really saying anything.

I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but I felt like piling on.

Reerun_KC
11-29-2007, 10:29 AM
I think it was around two thousand and never.


Did Pennington get hurt in 2003?

Not sure in 02 and 01, maybe Bill Parcells can help us on this one?

but from what I remember, there hasnt been a season where Herm has coached a team and they havent had to put in a backup because of injury...

Seems strange to me.

Pushead2
11-29-2007, 10:33 AM
Herm should just go iron man and show us he is atleast trying to hurt the players. No need to sugar coat baby.....

KCJohnny
11-29-2007, 10:42 AM
Blaming Edwards for QB injuries is not fair.
He's already roundly criticized for truncating the playbook to keep his QBs from getting hit too much. Can't have it both ways. Anyway, Croyle was hurt scrambling, not getting sacked. How can you hang that on the head coach???

Mile High Mania
11-29-2007, 10:45 AM
Healthy QBs give your offense an ability to do nothing but reach that 21 point and over barrier... when that happens, you're playing crazy ball.

Reerun_KC
11-29-2007, 10:48 AM
Blaming Edwards for QB injuries is not fair.
He's already roundly criticized for truncating the playbook to keep his QBs from getting hit too much. Can't have it both ways. Anyway, Croyle was hurt scrambling, not getting sacked. How can you hang that on the head coach???


Not blaming anyone KCJohnny... Relax!

I just asked when what the last time a QB in Herms offense did not get hurt.

If he is truncating the playbook, why so many injuries?

KCJohnny
11-29-2007, 11:14 AM
Not blaming anyone KCJohnny... Relax!

I just asked when what the last time a QB in Herms offense did not get hurt.

If he is truncating the playbook, why so many injuries?

Reerun, I just don't think you corollate injuries with coaching. My only exception would be Mike Martz who has a very bad habit of leaving his QBs exposed with empty backfields.

I do not think Herm had a history of getting QBs beat up in NY. Pennington hurt his arm but he wasn't getting sacked a lot. Testaverde was nearly 40 and still playing. All coaches hate injuries because they cripple a team's ability to perform at max levels.

If you look across the league, the Chiefs are one of the healthiest teams in the NFL this late into the season.

cadmonkey
11-29-2007, 11:37 AM
Did Pennington get hurt in 2003?

Not sure in 02 and 01, maybe Bill Parcells can help us on this one?

but from what I remember, there hasnt been a season where Herm has coached a team and they havent had to put in a backup because of injury...

Seems strange to me.

he only played in 10 games in 2003 but 15 in 2002, so i would assume it had something to do with injury.

MahiMike
11-29-2007, 01:00 PM
Old game plan - RunRunPassPunt
New game plan - RunRunInjuryPunt

Der Flöprer
11-29-2007, 02:40 PM
Right. It's Herm's fault his teams haven't had offensive lines. He hasn't been anywhere long enough to cultivate one. God knows Chad Pennington and Brodie Croyle both have reputations of being Iron Men. Some of you guys sound like 17th century women going on witch hunts. Stop already with the 2nd rate manipulation.

Chiefnj2
11-29-2007, 02:45 PM
Not blaming anyone KCJohnny... Relax!

I just asked when what the last time a QB in Herms offense did not get hurt.

If he is truncating the playbook, why so many injuries?

Because the OL sucks??

FAX
11-29-2007, 02:45 PM
Right. It's Herm's fault his teams haven't had offensive lines. He hasn't been anywhere long enough to cultivate one. God knows Chad Pennington and Brodie Croyle both have reputations of being Iron Men. Some of you guys sound like 17th century women going on witch hunts. Stop already with the 2nd rate manipulation.

Okay. I'll grant you that one, Mr. Mr. Flopnuts. Fair is fair, and all.

But, have you noticed that teenaged pregnancies have risen, water quality has gone down, and global warming has increased wherever Herm has coached?

FAX

SPchief
11-29-2007, 02:48 PM
It was Herm's fault that Green got hurt last year?

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2007, 02:48 PM
Right. It's Herm's fault his teams haven't had offensive lines. He hasn't been anywhere long enough to cultivate one. God knows Chad Pennington and Brodie Croyle both have reputations of being Iron Men. Some of you guys sound like 17th century women going on witch hunts. Stop already with the 2nd rate manipulation.

The Jets actually had a solid OL for much of Herm's tenure.

Chiefnj2
11-29-2007, 02:51 PM
It was Herm's fault that Green got hurt last year?

In part. Trent was scrambling for his life pretty much the entire game before he was KO'd. The team was not prepared and didn't gameplan very well.

Der Flöprer
11-29-2007, 02:51 PM
Okay. I'll grant you that one, Mr. Mr. Flopnuts. Fair is fair, and all.

But, have you noticed that teenaged pregnancies have risen, water quality has gone down, and global warming has increased wherever Herm has coached?

FAX



There once was a coach named Herm
Whose coaching style was to conserve,
But the water was rotten and the sun was too hot and
15 year old girls wanted his sperm.


Sorry is repost. :D

FAX
11-29-2007, 02:52 PM
It was Herm's fault that Green got hurt last year?

It was a scramble, wasn't it, Mr. SPchief? If I remember the play correctly, Trent scrambled out of trouble, slid, and got clocked on a highly illegal play.

I suppose the stretch is that the QBs are getting smashed into smush because the protection is bad. The protection is bad because the oline sucks. The oline sucks because they are on the field. The oline is on the field because Herm put them there. Herm put them there because he thought they were good enough. Herm thought they were good enough because he is a clueless tool.

Now, if we can just figure out why Herm is a clueless tool, we might be able to get this thing fixed.

FAX

Chiefnj2
11-29-2007, 02:54 PM
There's nothing to worry about, the Chiefs are just playing a vanilla offense to lure teams into a false sense of security. They don't want to show too much this early in the season.

Skip Towne
11-29-2007, 03:06 PM
It was a scramble, wasn't it, Mr. SPchief? If I remember the play correctly, Trent scrambled out of trouble, slid, and got clocked on a highly illegal play.

I suppose the stretch is that the QBs are getting smashed into smush because the protection is bad. The protection is bad because the oline sucks. The oline sucks because they are on the field. The oline is on the field because Herm put them there. Herm put them there because he thought they were good enough. Herm thought they were good enough because he is a clueless tool.

Now, if we can just figure out why Herm is a clueless tool, we might be able to get this thing fixed.

FAX
Nobody ever knew he was a clueless tool. He was just Peter Principled into a job he can't handle. He had 5 years with the Jets to prove himself. He failed miserably. I see no reason to give him any more time.

FAX
11-29-2007, 03:16 PM
Nobody ever knew he was a clueless tool. He was just Peter Principled into a job he can't handle. He had 5 years with the Jets to prove himself. He failed miserably. I see no reason to give him any more time.

Well, even clueless tools can have redeeming qualities, Mr. Skip Towne. I once knew this blonde girl from Overland Park who was a clueless tool who had tons of redeeming qualities.

But, my question is this; Most people seem to agree that Herm has a gift for evaluating talent. If true, why didn't he do a better job of evaluating our offensive line players? Surely, he's seen enough linemen in Tampa, NY, and KC to properly assess their ability. Was it a case where no one was available who was any better than Terry?

I am sincerely puzzled by this.

FAX

bobbything
11-29-2007, 03:27 PM
Edit for all of you who take this place, and your role in the place, waaaaaaaaaaay too seriously.

FAX
11-29-2007, 03:41 PM
Do not click on that link.

FAX

bobbything
11-29-2007, 03:42 PM
Do not click on that link.

FAX
This place is absolutely zero fun.

FAX
11-29-2007, 03:44 PM
This place is absolutely zero fun.

You're right, Mr. bobbything. Everybody!! Click on that link!!!

FAX

Zouk
11-29-2007, 03:49 PM
I am sincerely puzzled by this.

FAX

When Herm arrived he inherited an old O and a terrible D. His first offseason, we were locked in with bad contracts (Kendrell Bell, Greg Wesley, Sammy Knight, Pat Surtain, Eric Hicks) and loads of dead cap weight from released players (Shawn Barber, Jerome Woods, etc.) so we were not able to sign any free agents for significant money beyond Ty Law to what was essentially a 2 year deal designed to just help us get by at corner. The focus in the first offseason was in stopping the bleeding by not adding more bad contracts so that the team would be in better shape for offseasons 2 and 3.

In the first couple of drafts, Herm focused on improving the D to be sure, but he also added Croyle and Bowe. Think about how depressed this roster would look without those two. You can plug in offensive linemen later on, but it's harder to add a young QB in year 3 of the rebuilding. He had to be drafted in year 1.

In the second offseason, we signed Damion McIntosh for significant cap dollars. There are no great left tackles available on the free agency market, but the team thought that was the best available. There were still many holes on the D to be filled, so they still had to focus resources there as well.

The third offseason is where we'll see more of the offensive changes. But at least now there's a foundation to build around with Croyle, LJ, Kolby, and Bowe. Only LJ was here when Vermeil left.

Your mistake is assuming that the roster is where Herm wants it right now. It's clearly not. But to rebuild right it has to be done slowly and gradually to ensure the salary cap is in order and young guys get a chance to play. So that means until we get a long-term answer at RT and RG we have to put up with Welbourns and Terrys. Could we have found better short-term answers? Yes, and that's a fair critique. But at least you can see a logic in why it's being done in this way.

FAX
11-29-2007, 04:05 PM
First off, Mr. Zouk, you may well have a brain hemorrhage. Second off, everybody knows that Herm has primarily focused on the D, so far. Third off, no offense can function without an offensive line. Any successful NFL coach will tell you that, when your offense needs rebuilding, that's the FIRST place you work on ... not the LAST. Fourth off, McIntosh is far from a cap buster. Fifth off, I understand that Herm hasn't completed the roster yet. Sixth off, our line play has proven that practically anybody in FA would have an improvement over Terry, Turley, and Welbourne.

The question remains, why didn't/couldn't he recognize that the players he chose for the right side of the oline can't block Jack's momma? Was he misled in camp by his belief that the D's improvement was so great that these clowns were better than they actually were?

FAX

Zouk
11-29-2007, 04:15 PM
Any successful NFL coach will tell you that, when your offense needs rebuilding, that's the FIRST place you work on ... not the LAST.

FAX

You start with the QB, WR, and LT. That's 1 offensive lineman, and 2 non-offensive linemen.

The Colts started with Manning, Harrison, and Glenn, and added the rest later on. The Pats started with Brady, Branch (since replaced with Moss), and Light, and added the rest later on (Light is the only O-lineman from their first SB winner still on the team). The Packers already had Favre, but added Driver/Walker, and Clifton first. Most of the rest of their linemen are 1st and 2nd year players (meaning they were added last).

Skip Towne
11-29-2007, 04:20 PM
Here's what I am most afraid of: Herm works his magic and has the best team in the league. We are at a critical point in the 2nd half of the conference championship game when Herm has one of his massive brain farts. And we lose. No matter how good a team he builds he will never be able to overcome his own stupidity. He is not a HC and he needs to get the hell out of town.

FAX
11-29-2007, 04:22 PM
You start with the QB, WR, and LT. That's 1 offensive lineman, and 2 non-offensive linemen.

The Colts started with Manning, Harrison, and Glenn, and added the rest later on. The Pats started with Brady, Branch (since replaced with Moss), and Light, and added the rest later on (Light is the only O-lineman from their first SB winner still on the team). The Packers already had Favre, but added Driver/Walker, and Clifton first. Most of the rest of their linemen are 1st and 2nd year players (meaning they were added last).

We may be talking past each other again, Mr. Zouk. If I'm responsible for that, I apologize.

In an ideal world, the strategy you outline makes total sense. However, it assumes that the other linemen are competitive or even servicable. With the exception of Waters, ours is not. I like Wiegman, but we're certainly not playing to his strengths either. If you're saying that you can realistically develop offensive skill players with little or no blocking across the board, I am forced to disagree. I don't think Herm would believe that either.

FAX

dirk digler
11-29-2007, 04:27 PM
I was actually thinking about this today. It seems here and NY Herm has had alot of problems with injuries to his players.

I am curious if it is the way that he conducts practices or lack thereof that could contribute to it?

DV would have monster 3 hr long practices and we were mostly always healthy.

Just curious

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2007, 04:31 PM
Here's what I am most afraid of: Herm works his magic and has the best team in the league. We are at a critical point in the 2nd half of the conference championship game when Herm has one of his massive brain farts. And we lose. No matter how good a team he builds he will never be able to overcome his own stupidity. He is not a HC and he needs to get the hell out of town.

Herm will never have the best team in the league. He will ALWAYS start slow. We will NEVER win a division championship here under Herm. I'm convinced his ceiling is 10, MAYBE 11 wins, MAX.

Zouk
11-29-2007, 04:32 PM
In an ideal world, the strategy you outline makes total sense. However, it assumes that the other linemen are competitive or even servicable. With the exception of Waters, ours is not.
FAX

No, I hear you - you're right. You asked exactly the right question - what made us think Terry and Turley could be adequate at RT? That and thinking Mike Priefer could coach special teams are by far the 2 biggest blunders and the 2 situations that need to be rectified this offseason.

But those mistakes are much smaller and more fixable in my opinion than messing up 1st round draft picks.

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2007, 04:34 PM
The real reason Herm has QB issues... (http://www.w4rc0rpz.net/images/6fj333t.jpg)

Edit your post, cocksmoker.

Zouk
11-29-2007, 04:38 PM
I was actually thinking about this today. It seems here and NY Herm has had alot of problems with injuries to his players.

I am curious if it is the way that he conducts practices or lack thereof that could contribute to it?


We've been well below league average in injuries each of the last 2 years.

FAX
11-29-2007, 04:40 PM
No, I hear you - you're right. You asked exactly the right question - what made us think Terry and Turley could be adequate at RT? That and thinking Mike Priefer could coach special teams are by far the 2 biggest blunders and the 2 situations that need to be rectified this offseason.

But those mistakes are much smaller and more fixable in my opinion than messing up 1st round draft picks.

Okay, the strange, out-of-context reference to 1st round picks aside, it looks like we're getting somewhere, Mr. Zouk.

Forget about weighing the quality and quantity of the screw ups for a second and let's agree for the moment that Terry/Turley/Welbourne's deplorable play have clearly demonstrated that they are not the answer at RT or even RG.

Why did Herm not recognize that fact in camp? That's the question. If he's God's gift to humanity in the area of player evaluation, how could he not see what we've seen all year long? Or, if he did know, why would he not look elsewhere when he had the opportunity?

FAX

Skip Towne
11-29-2007, 04:43 PM
Herm will never have the best team in the league. He will ALWAYS start slow. We will NEVER win a division championship here under Herm. I'm convinced his ceiling is 10, MAYBE 11 wins, MAX.
I was quoting best case scenario. Even if he built the best team in the history of the world he would still f*ck it up with his brain farts. He is not a HC.

bobbything
11-29-2007, 04:46 PM
Edit your post, cocksmoker.
Surely you can be more original with your name-calling.

Zouk
11-29-2007, 04:49 PM
The only reliable way to get players is through the first day of the draft or the first couple of weeks of unrestricted free agency. Sometimes you hit on a 2nd day pick, but it doesn't happen regularly and you can't count on it in planning how to build a team.

Based on needs and who the best players/values available were in the draft and free agency, we have not yet been able to find the right long-term solutions at RG or RT. There's no question about that. I agree we should have been able to find a better short-term answer for this year at those positions. Whether those guys were out there on the street in August is highly questionable, but again I agree it can't be much worse.

Still my point is that messing up on short-term fixes (players we do not spend significant signing bonuses or 1st day picks on) is far less problematic than messing up on planned long-term solutions (which is what Carl-Vermeil-Stiles did and is why we're in this mess to begin with).

dirk digler
11-29-2007, 04:58 PM
We've been well below league average in injuries each of the last 2 years.

Not at the QB position or the RB position at least this year. You're probably right overall.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-29-2007, 05:24 PM
"We're no strangers to love....you know the rules, AND SO DO I!!!!"

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2002/01/17/dpub_astley80s.jpg

headsnap
11-29-2007, 07:05 PM
Surely you can be more original with your name-calling.
that was a rather Dickish thing to do!!!

HemiEd
11-29-2007, 07:14 PM
It is painfully obvious that Herm hates Offensive lineman and they hate him. Consequently the good ones retire, and the rest don't do their job, so the QB gets hurt. Simple really, elementary.

Reerun_KC
11-29-2007, 07:24 PM
It is painfully obvious that Herm hates Offensive lineman and they hate him. Consequently the good ones retire, and the rest don't do their job, so the QB gets hurt. Simple really, elementary.


I knew it!

Herm = http://www.firstworldwar.com/features/graphics/hitler_fuhrer.jpg

FAX
11-29-2007, 07:31 PM
that was a rather Dickish thing to do!!!

Yes. Yes, it was.

FAX

bobbything
11-29-2007, 07:39 PM
Lighten up Francis', it's gone.

Control + Alt + Delete (Command + Option + Esc, for Mac users)

headsnap
11-29-2007, 07:46 PM
Lighten up Francis', it's gone.

Control + Alt + Delete (Command + Option + Esc, for Mac users)

seriously, IMHO that should be a bannable offense on the board...

bobbything
11-29-2007, 07:49 PM
seriously, IMHO that should be a bannable offense on the board...
Man, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. My apologies.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-29-2007, 08:35 PM
seriously, IMHO that should be a bannable offense on the board...


Oh for f*ck's sake, it wasn't pr0n. Stop being such a f*cking bitch.

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2007, 08:37 PM
Lighten up Francis', it's gone.

Control + Alt + Delete (Command + Option + Esc, for Mac users)

Here's the issue with your "solution."

I had 10 tabs open. I didn't want to lose all those tabs open at once - they had important crap in them.

Fortunately I nuked the offending tabs your dipshittery produced after minor hassle. But it was still annoying.

headsnap
11-29-2007, 08:37 PM
Oh for f*ck's sake, it wasn't pr0n. Stop being such a f*cking bitch.
pr0n I'm fine with, but jacking with someones browser is dickish...


like I said, it's JMO...

headsnap
11-29-2007, 08:39 PM
Here's the issue with your "solution."

I had 10 tabs open. I didn't want to lose all those tabs open at once - they had important crap in them.


same situation I was in...

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-29-2007, 08:41 PM
Just a thought:

"Ctrl+W".

Count Alex's Losses
11-29-2007, 08:42 PM
Just a thought:

"Ctrl+W".

Yeah. I finally got around to that after the ****ing thing opened 20 tabs of it's own. And you know, I had to click that stupid dialog box through before I could close each tab.

Reerun_KC
11-29-2007, 08:48 PM
It was annoying. I was trying to write a paper for advanced aerodynamics and lost all the tabs I had open because the stupid thing wouldnt close...

Very Bronco fan like move....

FAX
11-29-2007, 09:10 PM
Oh for f*ck's sake, it wasn't pr0n. Stop being such a f*cking bitch.

Maybe it's just me, but I like to think that I can trust Planeteers not to post a link that is a friggin' quicksand trap of application killing idiocy, Mr. 'Hamas' Jenkins.

Bitch or no, it was a pain in the ass and an uncalled for intrusion on my karmic peace. The offender should have his eyes taped open and dipped in a boiling vat of Oprah's vaginal discharge.

FAX

Der Flöprer
11-29-2007, 09:17 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I like to think that I can trust Planeteers not to post a link that is a friggin' quicksand trap of application killing idiocy, Mr. 'Hamas' Jenkins.

Bitch or no, it was a pain in the ass and an uncalled for intrusion on my karmic peace. The offender should have his eyes taped open and dipped in a boiling vat of Oprah's vaginal discharge.

FAX



Or, a trip to the minge would suffice.

MadMax
11-29-2007, 09:31 PM
Or, a trip to the minge would suffice.



They have taco's there...I've heard ;) Beware of the mutilated monkey meat though :shake:

Bill Parcells
11-29-2007, 09:45 PM
The Jets actually had a solid OL for much of Herm's tenure.
Yes they did. it was predictable play calling that got Pennington killed. nothing else. (sound familiar?)

Reerun_KC
11-29-2007, 09:49 PM
Yes they did. it was predictable play calling that got Pennington killed. nothing else. (sound familiar?)


Can you tell us the last time Herm went through a season without getting a QB hurt?

Bill Parcells
11-29-2007, 10:04 PM
Can you tell us the last time Herm went through a season without getting a QB hurt?
2001

HemiEd
11-30-2007, 06:09 AM
Yes they did. it was predictable play calling that got Pennington killed. nothing else. (sound familiar?)

Surely that is just a coincidence?

Pushead2
11-30-2007, 06:17 AM
Surely that is just a coincidence?

maybe.......maybe HemiEd. :harumph: