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View Full Version : Go to The Red Zone..Vermeil: Gonzalez Needs More Weight, Strength


tommykat
07-10-2001, 09:14 PM
I was appalled...<<OK I can't spell......he wants him to gain weight and work out more!

Geezzzzzzzz, this is the only player I know of that works out with a trainer and all year and DV wants him to do more?? Great way to get Tony to leave next year!!!

So Tony agrees and said if that is what DV wants he will do it....Good Grief.......LAY OFF THE ONE PLAYER THAT WE KNOW THAT IS THE BEST THAT KC HAS HAD IN WHAT??????? HOW MANY YEARS.......:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Chiefs Pantalones
07-10-2001, 09:18 PM
Red Zone?

Brock
07-10-2001, 09:22 PM
Tony Gonzalez will never get out of KC, unless he decides he'd rather play in the NBA.

tommykat
07-10-2001, 09:31 PM
Here is the whole story....New Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil wants more.

KMBC's Dave Stewart reported that Vermeil wants the All-Pro tight end to gain some weight and get physically stronger.

He should be a 255-pound player," Vermeil said Wednesday. "Right now, he's 242 or 243 pounds. He needs to get in the weight room and get stronger."

Gonzalez said his current weight is the same as it has been since he came into the league four years ago.

"I think the weight I have been at is all right by me," Gonzalez said. "I've been playing pretty well."

His statistics would indicate just that. Last year, Gonzalez caught a team-record 93 passes for 1,203 yards and nine touchdowns. He also became the most prolific pass-catching tight end in team history.

He added, however, that he has not rested on his laurels, claiming he is working out harder than ever this off season.

"I'm lifting (weights). I've never stopped lifting," he said. "I'm stronger than I have ever been in the off season, but if he wants me to gain the weight, I'll gain it."

Vermeil acknowledges that a player like Gonzalez is special and is a perfect fit to the new vertical offense he and offensive coordinator Al Saunders brought with them from St. Louis.

"He's an unbelievable weapon," Vermeil said. "Plus, what people have to appreciate with a guy like him is he can dictate coverages."
:eek: :confused: :eek: :confused:

Chiefs Pantalones
07-10-2001, 09:34 PM
Yep. Tony is our Corey Dillon. He will never leave KC.

CG

feels pretty confident about that

Joe Seahawk
07-10-2001, 09:42 PM
oops wrong link..

Joe Seahawk
07-10-2001, 09:42 PM
DOH!!

www.theredzone.org

tommykat
07-10-2001, 09:51 PM
Thanks Joe.......didn't know how to put the site on..:p

Joe Seahawk
07-10-2001, 10:20 PM
No problem, I accidently posted . com instead of .org on the first attempt...Dont go there:eek:

Saggysack
07-10-2001, 11:23 PM
I still have not figured out yet why some people think Gonzales will leave KC. What really makes people feel this way? Where are the signs that say he is leaving or planning to leave in the near future? Gonzales staying in KC is a win situation. Gonzales leaving can also be a win situation also. Gonzales if unwilling to commit to a long term deal will with 95% chance of being "Franchised". Teams that would be interested in him would have to give a hell of alot more than than just money, they would also have to surrender 2 1st round draft picks. Giving up 1 1st rounder is alot to ask for, look at the KC/StL/Green debacle this past draft, remember the daily debates, and asking a team giving up 2 is next to impossible. I have no fear that Gonzales will leave, if he does so be it, but I know 1 thing to be for sure Gonzales is a win-win situation, either we will have Gonzo or 2 1st rounders

philfree
07-10-2001, 11:38 PM
I think demanding more out of a player like Tony is exactly what we need as a team and what he needs as an individual. If you ever think your good enough you'll end up takin a step back. Tony is obviously a big part of DVs plans so he sould feel good about this critisizm. Don't flich Tony just take a big step forward!

PhilFree :cool:

DaWolf
07-10-2001, 11:53 PM
Tony's just hitting the tip of the iceberg. What Vermiel is saying, (and he said this about a month ago during camp) is that Gonzalez can get much bigger and stronger, and that will help his game. One major reason is that since he has established himself as perhaps the best TE in the game and the Chiefs best weapon, teams are going to be doing all kinds of things to specifically take him out, and he's going to take a lot more punishment than he's getting even now, so strenghtening up is going to give him better longjevity in his career and also make him tougher to stop.

Now as for Gonzo, I'm not saying it's going to happen to him, but if he lets all this acting and posing with models for swimsuit issues and stuff like that get to his head, teams are going to figure out ways to slow him down and he'll revert back to dropping passes, and then we'll be left saying "what happened?" So Tony needs to continually push himself to excel and get better, and even if he says he's doing that, if Vermiel can help push him a bit harder, then I'm all for it...

aturnis
07-11-2001, 01:44 AM
These are things I tell myself when working out or running your whatever.....

Everyone, even the best, can always be better.

Better can't hurt.

Push yourself to your limits, and then surpass them.

Jog at a fast pace until your dead and need to walk, once you can no longer job......SPRINT.

If you only work-out half a$$ed you'll only play half a$$ed.

Must stay ahead of competition.

Come that extra hour before practice starts to hone skills, stay that extra hour after practice to continue honing skills.

Is being the best good enough?

Am I the best yet?

Could I be better?

When the opponent is resting, go hard, separate yourself from your opponent.

And of course.......May God give me strength, but that doesn't exactly apply to the making myself better trend.:p

This is all DV is asking Gonzo.........

Saggysack
07-11-2001, 01:55 AM
I disagree with you somewhat aturnis.If you only work-out half a$$ed you'll only play half a$$ed.
D.Alexander is known for his half-a$$ing during practice and the weight room but he still comes on Sunday to play full-a$$ed

milkman
07-11-2001, 04:24 AM
I disagree Cooter.

DA has the potential to be so much better than what he is.
Lack of effort and commitment in practice has not led to reaching star status he's capable of acheiving.

He could be among the elite.
He's settled for average.

Saggysack
07-11-2001, 04:52 AM
Sure, I will agree with that he could be better than what he is
but we all could in someways whichever profession each 1 of may happen to be in. D.A. can be considered average by many it doesn't really matter, but honestly do you think D.A. is "average"?

milkman
07-11-2001, 04:58 AM
Yes, I think that DA is average, or perhaps just slightly better than average.
He could be so much more.

I could easily accept that if he worked at his game.
But he's lazy.
I don't have much good to say about lazy people.

Saggysack
07-11-2001, 10:06 AM
Average in my eyes isn't having 78receptions, 1,391yds, 10 TD's, 3carries for 45yds, leading the AFC in yards per reception(17.8).
He ranked third in the AFC for recieving yards only behind "average" Rod Smith(1,602) and "average" Marvin Harrison(1,413). For TD's he was ranked 3rd in the AFC as well only behind again "average" Marvin Harrison(14) and "average" Tim Brown(11). His 24 receptions for 20yds or more behind Rod Smith(30), Torry Holt(30) and Randy Moss(25). He tied for 6th in the NFL for catches of 50 yards or more. In 2000 Alexander had 6 100yd games only behind Rod Smith(8), Randy Moss(8), Marvin Harrison(8) and Eric Moulds (7). If those are the kind of #'s that are "average" or even "better than average" in your eyes then I'm glad you are not my boss because you may never be satisfied.

milkman
07-11-2001, 01:02 PM
As I've told KCJohnny many times, I base my opinions on what I see, not on numbers.

Yeah, DA gets a lot of catches, but he drops a lot of balls as well.

His numbers may be among the elite.
His effort is average.

If I were your boss, I would ask for max effort. I wouldn't ask for anything that I'm not willing to do myself.

Phobia
07-11-2001, 01:10 PM
Cooter and I have had this discussion on psp. I played the part of milkman.

I think DA is a good (much better than average) WR, but he could truly become an ELITE WR if he gave as much effort as someone with lesser talent....

philfree
07-11-2001, 01:20 PM
DA's good but he could be better, however, I don't remember him dropping alot of balls last year. He did the year before but last year he really stepped up during the games. If DV can get him to improve his work ethic just a little it could pay some dividends.

PhilFree:cool:

milkman
07-11-2001, 01:26 PM
DA did do a better job of hanging on to the passes thrown his way last season.
But he still dropped some crucial balls.

If he worked only half as hard as Jerry Rice is reputed to work,
we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I want to be able to feel confident every time a pass is thrown his way.
I don't like the nervous feeling in the pit of my stomach.

htismaqe
07-11-2001, 02:42 PM
DA showed dramatic improvement last year, and if I remember correctly it was said he took the offseason much more seriously. I really think that he is starting to get more dedicated and take his game to that next level. In essence, I think milkman's arguments are valid, I just think they say more about the past than the future...

As for Gonzo, nobody is ever as good as they'll get. He can always get better. That's all Vermeil is asking. Work hard and play hard. And to think he'd go to the NBA...no WAY...his big payday is here...

gh4chiefs
07-11-2001, 02:50 PM
I see where Tommykat is coming from. I understand about pushing someone and I would understand whatever DV said to Gonzo one on one, but to publicly semi-criticize one of the better performing players on the team doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

That's just a personal thing with me, I guess. Don't come down on the perfomers, go after the slackers.

Zebedee DuBois
07-11-2001, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by milkman
If I were your boss, I would ask for max effort. I wouldn't ask for anything that I'm not willing to do myself.

I bet the cows in that milking barn really love to see milkman walking through the door. LOL :D

jk

tommykat
07-11-2001, 11:32 PM
gh4chiefs
Thank you for your statement....that is what I was talking about.
To put that in the public news was degrading to me. So if it was to me I can imagine it must be for Tony.....however, he is a great player and person, so to bulk up would help somewhat. I can see the players going after him BIG time now. They would love nothing more than to put Tony out. WE could never afford that!:eek: :eek:
But, I don't see anyone pulling Tony down...:D

Saggysack
07-11-2001, 11:51 PM
What I think eveybody thinks is if you put max effort into preparing in the offseason then max results will follow...that is not true! Jerry Rice and Walter Payton are known for their vigorous offseason training, like Rice running up a hill for 2 miles until he pukes. Not every player has a monstrous training regimen that those guys have, not every player needs that kind of regimen to mentally and physically prepare for a season. Rice had done those same things going into college, while in college, and now at the professional level, it is how he prepares himself, many SF 49ers have tried Rice's offseason regimen and you know what for the vast majority of them it didn't work. I was just wondering did anybody happen to see R.Smith drop balls last year...I did. Did anybody happen to see M.Harrison struggle with double coverage last year...I did. Does this make them average or better than average? How about R.Moss and for all the C.Carter regimen he does, he still takes plays off, but he is still extremely successfull......max effort does not mean max or even better results than previous.

tommykat
07-12-2001, 12:02 AM
Cooter,
Well said.....Answer to all your questions are NO! You are right, and I still say no one will take Tony out this year/or ever!;)

KCinNY
07-12-2001, 12:17 AM
As far as Gonzales is concerned, It's my opinion that Vermiel is just making a statement that EVERYONE, even Tony, needs to work hard to get better. Ill bet he probably wont care if TG plays at 245ish this year as long as the message gets through.

Alexander is sorta like Alvin Harper was, maybe a little better even, but would be at his best as a top-notch #2 WR. He makes some great plays(especially on deep routes) but will disappear for weeks at a time too. Mistake to make him your #1 goto WR if you can help it, IMO.

hankster06
07-12-2001, 12:29 AM
well vermeils strategy for the chiefs this year is to throw the ball and throw it down field
;)

tommykat
07-12-2001, 12:33 AM
KCinNY
I agree they all need to work out more and harder. DV doesn't care if they are a Chief or not. It all boils down to work and attitude. Finally, a HC that doesn't give a squat about being a Chief......BUT, it was the way it was made public about Tony. However, I have to say I think it is because THE MAN has the talent and integrity to do what was asked of him.;)

Saggysack
07-12-2001, 05:03 AM
Speaking of average Rod Smith. Anyone remember him getting arrested last year for choking, dragging and beating his wife last year? I'm glad D.A. didn't do anything like that last year!

htismaqe
07-12-2001, 09:45 AM
but will disappear for weeks at a time too

Again, a statement about the DA of the past...I had him on my FF team last year and he was good for points each and every week. He was more consistent that almost any other receiver in the league...

Saggysack
07-12-2001, 11:08 AM
I agree htismage

D.A. was a very consistant fantasy performer last year. I have had Tony on my team for the last two so I have kinda followed Alexander's production. Tony and D.A. seem to start the season just alittle slow but always seem to pick it up quite a bit.

hankster06
07-12-2001, 07:35 PM
:) what is all this talk about the arrow head stadium renovation???

tommykat
07-12-2001, 07:49 PM
hankster06
Welcome to the Planet.....that would make a good topic to start.

;)
By the way fellow 37 memebers. This is a friend of mine in KC that is going to try to get somethings signed for us for the auction. Welcome B.

Kathy

milkman
07-12-2001, 08:00 PM
DA did improve last season, but there is still room for so much more.
Although I do believe that some of that improvement will come naturally as a result of having an OC with a clue.

As for TG, and Vermeil passing the challenge through the media, this is a ploy that many HCs have used to motivate players to strive for improvement. I don't see any problem with the tactic.

hankster06
07-17-2001, 11:00 PM
thanks tommy kat.. glad to be here.. ive got my work cut out for me but am up for the challenge.. i think it is a good cause the 37ers are doing and i back it 100 jpercent... :) ;) :p :cool: