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irishjayhawk
12-01-2007, 09:54 PM
Chris Weiss should be nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay. The Golden Compass balances book and film eloquently. In fact, it puts the Potter films to shame. Sure, it makes sacrifices for the sake of cinema, but in the end, the sacrifices make for a better end product. Potter cannot say the same.

The book opens up the imagination but this film takes it and runs with it. And boy do they have fun. The cast is very good and each, save for (in my opinion) Lord John Faa, are cast to perfection. The CGI left nothing to be desired.

As far as religion goes, the film doesnít overtly state it. Some say they cut it out or toned it down, but they didnít. Instead, they just donít come out and say it. They say it through subtle dialogue, costumes, and settings. In fact, it highlights it more. Sure, coming out and saying ďthe ChurchĒ in places would make it much more obvious to the younger crowd, but it isnít necessarily needed. Thematically, the film is superb, just like the novel. And thatís the reason why I think it deserves Best Adapted Screenplay.

The bottom line is that it was pure brilliance in every way. Entertaining to the nth degree. Worth every penny of admission.




Oh, and Polar Bear fights rule.

MIAdragon
12-01-2007, 10:02 PM
Really I hard a hard time figuring if this was going to be great or a flop from the pre views.

Mr Luzcious
12-01-2007, 10:03 PM
Sounds pretty good.. but putting the Potter movies to shame isn't anything special.

irishjayhawk
12-01-2007, 10:09 PM
Sounds pretty good.. but putting the Potter movies to shame isn't anything special.

Very true. :)

But by putting it to shame, I mean, it effing slaughtered it.

Mr Luzcious
12-01-2007, 10:15 PM
Very true. :)

But by putting it to shame, I mean, it effing slaughtered it.

Ah, good to hear. I may see it after all!

John_Wayne
12-01-2007, 10:33 PM
No thank you. I'm not going to watch that trash. I hope it tanks.

Pitt Gorilla
12-01-2007, 10:34 PM
No thank you. I'm not going to watch that trash. I hope it tanks.I hadn't heard that it was trash. Actually, most of what I've heard is quite good. What's wrong with the book/film?

morphius
12-01-2007, 10:41 PM
Oh, and Polar Bear fights rule.

They were not by chance guarding the Fortress of Solitude for Superman were they?

chagrin
12-01-2007, 11:17 PM
I hadn't heard that it was trash. Actually, most of what I've heard is quite good. What's wrong with the book/film?

Most folks who have problems with it, do so because the books ere written by a very staunch Atheist, I haven't read them and I don't really care, is it good entertainment? That's what movies should be for pete's sake - I love Fantasy type movies!

BigMeatballDave
12-01-2007, 11:40 PM
Any chance KCJohnny will go see this?

Vegas_Dave
12-01-2007, 11:50 PM
I'm sure that it was well done from the aspect of it being a movie...

That being said, I will not be taking my children to see it, nor will we be renting it when it comes out on DVD. I am a Christian and can respect the movie from a cinematic standpoint, but being an adult, I can accurately determine the difference in te fiction and its relevance to my life. (yes, I know, that to atheists, religion is fiction as well).

However, the same arguments can be made by atheists to the Chronicles of Narnia movie. And you know what, if they dont want to take their kids to see that movie for the same reasons, that is their choice and as parents, need to be able to make that choice.

Pitt Gorilla
12-01-2007, 11:54 PM
I'm sure that it was well done from the aspect of it being a movie...

That being said, I will not be taking my children to see it, nor will we be renting it when it comes out on DVD. I am a Christian and can respect the movie from a cinematic standpoint, but being an adult, I can accurately determine the difference in te fiction and its relevance to my life. (yes, I know, that to atheists, religion is fiction as well).

However, the same arguments can be made by atheists to the Chronicles of Narnia movie. And you know what, if they dont want to take their kids to see that movie for the same reasons, that is their choice and as parents, need to be able to make that choice.Why wouldn't both movies be appropriate?

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 01:19 AM
I'm sure that it was well done from the aspect of it being a movie...

That being said, I will not be taking my children to see it, nor will we be renting it when it comes out on DVD. I am a Christian and can respect the movie from a cinematic standpoint, but being an adult, I can accurately determine the difference in te fiction and its relevance to my life. (yes, I know, that to atheists, religion is fiction as well).

However, the same arguments can be made by atheists to the Chronicles of Narnia movie. And you know what, if they dont want to take their kids to see that movie for the same reasons, that is their choice and as parents, need to be able to make that choice.

That has to be the dumbest tripe I've heard. I'm an atheist and own The Chronicles of Narnia.

And, the atheist agenda, is pure propaganda. This film and book does not push an atheist standpoint just an anti-church position. That is, question everything.

By the way, the one thing to guarantee more people see it: ban it or boycott it.

BigMeatballDave
12-02-2007, 01:27 AM
I'm an atheist KCJohnny is gonna kick your ass.
:)

KcMizzou
12-02-2007, 01:31 AM
Most folks who have problems with it, do so because the books ere written by a very staunch Atheist, I haven't read them and I don't really care, is it good entertainment? That's what movies should be for pete's sake - I love Fantasy type movies!Amen, brother.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 01:42 AM
I'm sure that it was well done from the aspect of it being a movie...

That being said, I will not be taking my children to see it, nor will we be renting it when it comes out on DVD. I am a Christian and can respect the movie from a cinematic standpoint, but being an adult, I can accurately determine the difference in te fiction and its relevance to my life. (yes, I know, that to atheists, religion is fiction as well).

However, the same arguments can be made by atheists to the Chronicles of Narnia movie. And you know what, if they dont want to take their kids to see that movie for the same reasons, that is their choice and as parents, need to be able to make that choice.


I think anytime someone uses religion as an excuse not to see a movie or read a book they demonstrate how weak they really are.


If you are so grounded in your religion and teach your kids the same then you should know that nothing will ever change you in that way.

I hear this from a guy I work with about Potter and laugh at him. He is such a staunch Christian he will let a little fantsay book threaten him.

:)

KcMizzou
12-02-2007, 01:47 AM
I think anytime someone uses religion as an excuse not to see a movie or read a book they demonstrate how weak they really are.


If you are so grounded in your religion and teach your kids the same then you should no that nothing will ever change you in that way.

I hear this from a guy I work with about Potter and laugh at him. He is such a staunch Christian he will let a little fantsay book threaten him.

:)True.

If you honestly have "faith", what's there to be worried about?

Baby Lee
12-02-2007, 06:31 AM
Are they gonna film the whole series and finally kill that weak old man posuer God and get that 12 year old laid?

NewChief
12-02-2007, 07:02 AM
I have to read the trilogy now, because my mom has been getting emails from some of her friends warning how the books and movies are the work of Satan. It's now become my job to risk my eternal soul for the good of the family and pronounce the movies either fit for consumption or not.

chagrin
12-02-2007, 07:56 AM
True.

If you honestly have "faith", what's there to be worried about?


Talk about a weak argument - it's not about jeapordizing one's faith, it probably offends some people for real, others do stupid shit like want to boycott it from theaters. What you are saying is that 'if someone is offended by something that insults what they hold dear, they are stupid, weak, brainwashed or they prove christianity is a farce.

I'd like to know how you live your life without being offended by anything, ever - it must be nice. :rolleyes:

a1na2
12-02-2007, 08:09 AM
I think anytime someone uses religion as an excuse not to see a movie or read a book they demonstrate how weak they really are.


If you are so grounded in your religion and teach your kids the same then you should know that nothing will ever change you in that way.

I hear this from a guy I work with about Potter and laugh at him. He is such a staunch Christian he will let a little fantsay book threaten him.



If you feel it's ok to subject your kids to something that is based on destroying that you firmly believe in then you run the risk of them being changed from how you want them raised.

Democrats raise their kids to be democrats by the way they talk to them daily. Same goes for republicans. Same goes for Christians. Same goes for atheists.

How may atheists will allow their kids to go to Summer Bible School or to a Christian Summer Camp?

I've seen both in my life, those that resist change because what they feel is being taugh is toxic to their kids lives.

Kids are impressionable. If a young kid goes to see a movie about destroying God they are going to have conflicting signals from their everyday surroundings. It's not a good thing for them to be exposed to those types of dimetrically opposed ideas until they come to an age of understanding. Otherwise it's just brain washing.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 08:34 AM
Bla bla bla....I am a strong Christian....but keep that witchcraft away from me cause somehow I am incapable of distinguishing reality from fantasy and the fantasy may somehow infringe upon my beliefs!


HOOEY!!!!

Most "Chirstians" don't hav ea flipping clue about the history of their religion or they would shit their pants!

NewChief
12-02-2007, 08:55 AM
As I said in another thread:

Evidently the "God" that is killed is a fallen angel who has created a religion around itself with a small group of rebels refusing to submit to the false god's rule. To me, this could just as easily by the premise for a Ted Dekker or Frank Peretti novel based on the prophesies in Revelation.

chagrin
12-02-2007, 09:06 AM
Bla bla bla....I am a strong Christian....but keep that witchcraft away from me cause somehow I am incapable of distinguishing reality from fantasy and the fantasy may somehow infringe upon my beliefs!


HOOEY!!!!

Most "Chirstians" don't hav ea flipping clue about the history of their religion or they would shit their pants!


By "most Christians" what do you mean exactly? If you are trying to be intelligent you really shouldn't mirror the same silly statements of religious wackos

petegz28
12-02-2007, 09:06 AM
As I said in another thread:

Evidently the "God" that is killed is a fallen angel who has created a religion around itself with a small group of rebels refusing to submit to the false god's rule. To me, this could just as easily by the premise for a Ted Dekker or Frank Peretti novel based on the prophesies in Revelation.


Well see that would require people to actually put some "faith" in their faith and actually watch the movie or read the book.


But when people cast fictional work to the side based on religion I say they need to pull whatever it is out of their ass.


My wife is a devout catholic and not 1 thing will change her faith. Not even Harry Potter, who she loves by the way.

chagrin
12-02-2007, 09:07 AM
As I said in another thread:

Evidently the "God" that is killed is a fallen angel who has created a religion around itself with a small group of rebels refusing to submit to the false god's rule. To me, this could just as easily by the premise for a Ted Dekker or Frank Peretti novel based on the prophesies in Revelation.


exactly, it's supposed to be fiction - I think the message clearly is getting clouded by arguments between believers and non-believers.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 09:07 AM
By "most Christians" what do you mean exactly? If you are trying to be intelligent you really shouldn't mirror the same silly statements of religious wackos


No, I mean MOST people who claim to be Christian.

MOST Christians are totally ignorant to the history of their religion outside of the version their preacher, pastur or priest give them for an hour on Sunday.

chagrin
12-02-2007, 09:09 AM
No, I mean MOST people who claim to be Christian.

MOST Christians are totally ignorant to the history of their religion outside of the version their preacher, pastur or priest give them for an hour on Sunday.

I disagree but that's okay - if you truly believe "most" christians pretend then that's certainly your choice.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 09:10 AM
I disagree but that's okay - if you truly believe "most" christians pretend then that's certainly your choice.


That is not what I said. I never said they "pretend". Pay attention son. I said they were ignorant to the history of their religion.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 09:14 AM
It must suck growing up in some of these families whre as a child you are not even allowed to pretend you can do things like fly or do magic without your parent telling you how it's all "THE DEBIL"!!!

JBucc
12-02-2007, 09:20 AM
As I said in another thread:

Evidently the "God" that is killed is a fallen angel who has created a religion around itself with a small group of rebels refusing to submit to the false god's rule. To me, this could just as easily by the premise for a Ted Dekker or Frank Peretti novel based on the prophesies in Revelation.Oh, well that's good then, since that's clearly a metaphor for evil, fake religions like Islam and not true ones like Christianity and Scientology.

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 09:20 AM
MOST Christians are totally ignorant to the history of their religion outside of the version their preacher, pastur or priest give them for an hour on Sunday.

And you came across this CONCLUSIVE data where, Captain Professor???

petegz28
12-02-2007, 09:22 AM
And you came across this CONCLUSIVE data where, Captain Professor???


It's called studying some history. Try it some time you might suprise yourself.

NewChief
12-02-2007, 09:26 AM
Oh, well that's good then, since that's clearly a metaphor for evil, fake religions like Islam and not true ones like Christianity and Scientology.

Greek Mythology is da debbil because it has the young Zeus-led gods killing the Titans!

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 09:37 AM
It's called studying some history. Try it some time you might suprise yourself.

Save it douchebag, you wont win any history contests against me.

Where did you get your evidence???

petegz28
12-02-2007, 09:41 AM
Save it douchebag, you wont win any history contests against me.

Where did you get your evidence???


Gee now I am a douchebag? How Christian of you!!!


I got my history from various places over the course of 36 years.


I am not here to convince anyone of anything. You are free to believe what you want.


But just to humor you a bit let's look at the obvious of how Christianity came about and how most Christian tradition is rooted in Paganism.

In fact let's just start with the Church more or less murdering off Pagans so they could have control.

I bet most Christians think most Christian holidays were founded for the reasons you are told from the day you are born!!!

petegz28
12-02-2007, 09:42 AM
Save it douchebag, you wont win any history contests against me.

Where did you get your evidence???


While you are calling people out allow me....


What evidence do you have the Jesus actually rose from the dead?

Or performed all these miracles that several others before him claimed to do but were discarded as myth?

blueballs
12-02-2007, 09:43 AM
Don't let your dick be your compass
close this thread now

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 09:45 AM
Gee now I am a douchebag? How Christian of you!!!


Yeah, well, i'm a bit backslidden these days...i allow myself to fight ignorance with attitude once in awhile.

You really think its only a small minority of people that know the history???

Consider yourself wrong.

Braincase
12-02-2007, 09:46 AM
With Daniel Craig and Eva Green in it, shouldn't it be caled "Compass Royale"?

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 09:47 AM
While you are calling people out allow me....


What evidence do you have the Jesus actually rose from the dead?

Or performed all these miracles that several others before him claimed to do but were discarded as myth?

Show me the evidence that he didnt.

See, its a fun little game we can play.

Chiefless
12-02-2007, 09:51 AM
This thread has brought out some stuff I've been thinking about lately, so forgive the sermon if you all find it annoying or whatever. Besides, it's Sunday.

I waver between being aethiest and agnostic. BUT, if I were to father children, I would absolutely, regularly take them to a Christian church until they were, say adolescents. Above everything else, when taught by non-zealots Christiananity preaches being a good human being. Where is the harm in that? How does that poison a child's mind? Where else do you lovingly get that outside of your own home? Believing in a Christian god, some unidentifiable force or science is for my children to decide. And, I would want them to hear arguments from as many different sources as are available before making their decision.

My own understanding of God is that he is not vengeful. God wants every one to get along. If I live my life according to God's wishes then he will forgive me for doubting Him. In the end, what difference does it make what route I took to justness? Isn't justness enough?

People spend too much time trying to prove they are right (and, I'm not just talking about Christians). In doing so, I firmly believe people forget the point. What difference does it make if I think differently from you. Why do so many people try to sway or bully people into adopting their beliefs (again, not singling out anyone)? What good does that serve?

There are tons of religions and for the most part they all preach the same thing...and that is to love each other. Why do we argue about His name? Why do I have to believe in a god at all if I live these principles?

[/sermon]

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 09:56 AM
This thread has brought out some stuff I've been thinking about lately, so forgive the sermon if you all find it annoying or whatever. Besides, it's Sunday.

I waver between being aethiest and agnostic. BUT, if I were to father children, I would absolutely, regularly take them to a Christian church until they were, say adolescents. Above everything else, when taught by non-zealots Christiananity preaches being a good human being. Where is the harm in that? How does that poison a child's mind? Where else do you lovingly get that outside of your own home? Believing in a Christian god, some unidentifiable force or science is for my children to decide. And, I would want them to hear arguments from as many different sources as are available before making their decision.

My own understanding of God is that he is not vengeful. God wants every one to get along. If I live my life according to God's wishes then he will forgive me for doubting Him. In the end, what difference does it make what route I took to justness? Isn't justness enough?

People spend too much time trying to prove they are right (and, I'm not just talking about Christians). In doing so, I firmly believe people forget the point. What difference does it make if I think differently from you. Why do so many people try to sway or bully people into adopting their beliefs (again, not singling out anyone)? What good does that serve?

There are tons of religions and for the most part they all preach the same thing...and that is to love each other. Why do we argue about His name? Why do I have to believe in a god at all if I live these principles?

[/sermon]

The harm in that is believing in things for which there is no evidence. That's the underlying harmful belief.

Chiefless
12-02-2007, 10:01 AM
What evidence do you have the Jesus actually rose from the dead?

Or performed all these miracles that several others before him claimed to do but were discarded as myth?

Science is not infoulable...explain where the elements that colided to form the big bang originated from. I mean, what created THAT. did they just always exist? how is that possible. Explain infinity. How can something not have a beginning nor end?

Science does not have all of the answers any more than religion does. At some point, even scientists have to admit "givins," which equates to "faith" in religion.

Furthermore, If you look at that biblical story as a metaphore (and, in my mind it is a metaphore), Jesus DID rise from the dead and lives in the hearts and minds of A LOT of people. He was EXTREMELY powerful.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:04 AM
Show me the evidence that he didnt.

See, its a fun little game we can play.


I am not saying that he did not. I am saying however Jesus performed the same exact miracles as several others claimed to before him.


So one has to logically as why it was real for Jesus and myth for people ahead of him?

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:06 AM
Yeah, well, i'm a bit backslidden these days...i allow myself to fight ignorance with attitude once in awhile.

You really think its only a small minority of people that know the history???

Consider yourself wrong.


Yes I think actually most Christians world wide are ignorant to their religion and it's history.



The same people who oppose this movie and movies like Potter will also rasie a Christmas Tree in their house.


Ignorant to them the Christmas Tree is a PAGAN tradtion. And when you tell them this they scoff at it like "who cares".

But Harry Potter is THE DEBIL!

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 10:06 AM
Science is not infoulable...explain where the elements that colided to form the big bang originated from. I mean, what created THAT. did they just always exist? how is that possible. Explain infinity. How can something not have a beginning nor end?

Science does not have all of the answers any more than religion does. At some point, even scientists have to admit "givins," which equates to "faith" in religion.

Furthermore, If you look at that biblical story as a metaphore (and, in my mind it is a metaphore), Jesus DID rise from the dead and lives in the hearts and minds of A LOT of people. He was EXTREMELY powerful.

Solid stuff, guys like IJH live & die by science...theories put forth by imperfect men, many theories that were once considered infallible are now being questioned.

Science is constantly evolving, changing its theory...but whatever the latest idea is MUST be the truth.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:08 AM
Science is not infoulable...explain where the elements that colided to form the big bang originated from. I mean, what created THAT. did they just always exist? how is that possible. Explain infinity. How can something not have a beginning nor end?

Science does not have all of the answers any more than religion does. At some point, even scientists have to admit "givins," which equates to "faith" in religion.

Furthermore, If you look at that biblical story as a metaphore (and, in my mind it is a metaphore), Jesus DID rise from the dead and lives in the hearts and minds of A LOT of people. He was EXTREMELY powerful.


Wow see you and I think alike. I ask the same question. Where did it "all" come from?


That is hardly the same though as embracing Christianity as the anwer to all.

Jesus was a very influental man I do not deny that 1 iota.


See in your defensive rush you have assumed that I don't believe in God or a Creator and that I think science has all the answers.

I have said neither.

Chiefless
12-02-2007, 10:08 AM
The harm in that is believing in things for which there is no evidence. That's the underlying harmful belief.

How exactly is that harmful? Science can only provide evidence of our creation to a point. Then, they have to take things as givens. Given your definition of harmfull, I should think you find that equally as harmfull.

The truth is there are no right or wrong answers. Humans are inquizitive. We search for meaning and understanding. There is no harm in that.

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 10:08 AM
Yes I think actually most Christians world wide are ignorant to their religion and it's history.



The same people who oppose this movie and movies like Potter will also rasie a Christmas Tree in their house.


Ignorant to them the Christmas Tree is a PAGAN tradtion. And when you tell them this they scoff at it like "who cares".

But Harry Potter is THE DEBIL!

The first 3 words here sum it all up.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:09 AM
Solid stuff, guys like IJH live & die by science...theories put forth by imperfect men, many theories that were once considered infallible are now being questioned.

Science is constantly evolving, changing its theory...but whatever the latest idea is MUST be the truth.


The same infoulable man wrote the Bible as well.


Man looked around, couldn't figure out where shit came from thus we have "God".

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:10 AM
The first 3 words here sum it all up.



In other words you can't prove you do know the history and all you can do is call me names?


So why don't you enlighten us all on this Sunday with a brief history of how Christianity came about and why?

Dave Lane
12-02-2007, 10:12 AM
I now am certain to see this I hadn't planned on it till the religious types starting saying they would boycott it.

Dave

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 10:13 AM
Show me the evidence that he didnt.

See, its a fun little game we can play.

And you would be wrong.

The onus is on the person making the claim. Plain and simple.

Chiefless
12-02-2007, 10:14 AM
Wow see you and I think alike. I ask the same question. Where did it "all" come from?


That is hardly the same though as embracing Christianity as the anwer to all.

Jesus was a very influental man I do not deny that 1 iota.


See in your defensive rush you have assumed that I don't believe in God or a Creator and that I think science has all the answers.

I have said neither.

I made no assumptions about you. I am simply pointing out that science answers as many questions as religion.

Dave Lane
12-02-2007, 10:14 AM
Go here for the greatest history lesson in the world:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com

Whether you believe or not its a great factual history of the religion.

Dave

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 10:15 AM
In other words you can't prove you do know the history and all you can do is call me names?


So why don't you enlighten us all on this Sunday with a brief history of how Christianity came about and why?

No, in other words, i wouldnt ever waste my time arguing with a brick wall. Go ahead & believe i havent studied these things, i could care less.

Why dont YOU enlighten us Captain Professor???

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:16 AM
For the record I believe in God. I do not endorse any organized religion and I do not believe Jesus did all that was claimed as several others before him allegedly di dhte same thing but were dismissed as myth.


Given the context of the time and war the Christians and Pagans engaged in provided plenty of motive for my beliefs.

There is a reason Christian holidays are at the same time Pagans had their holidays.

There is a reason the Christian hero Jesus was said to actually of performed miracles that pervious Pagan "Gods" (if you will) were said to have done but were discounted as myth.

Chirstians coverted or killed much like the Necromongers on Helion Prime.

All in the name of power and control of the masses.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 10:17 AM
How exactly is that harmful? Science can only provide evidence of our creation to a point. Then, they have to take things as givens. Given your definition of harmfull, I should think you find that equally as harmfull.

Science can only provide evidence to a point at the current time and does NOT act as though it knows for a FACT what happened. Science could take us to a corner of the universe where matter replicates itself and breaks the rules we know on Earth. And no, that's not equally harmful because not only does religion claim to know, they pass it off as fact that no one can question.


The truth is there are no right or wrong answers. Humans are inquizitive. We search for meaning and understanding. There is no harm in that.

No, there is no right or wrong answers at the current time. Moreover, the evidence can sway you in one way or another. In this case, there isn't a shred in favor, so, while it may not be a 100% answer, it's close to it.

The harm lies in this:

In religion/faith, the belief dictates the evidence. In every other aspect of life, the evidence dictates the belief.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:19 AM
No, in other words, i wouldnt ever waste my time arguing with a brick wall. Go ahead & believe i havent studied these things, i could care less.

Why dont YOU enlighten us Captain Professor???


You have yet to say anything but bullshit and name calling.

If you have studied them you have a reall funny way of displaying said knowledge.

Or is the Christian thing to do here is call me names and bascially spout off bullshit about how you know this or that but have yet to demonstrate it?


So take your Christian name calling elsewhere. Jesus would not of called me a douche he would of explained his point of view there Professor Asshat!

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:20 AM
I made no assumptions about you. I am simply pointing out that science answers as many questions as religion.


Well I think us dumb ass humans will eventually learn science and religion are more or less one in the same at the root of it all.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 10:22 AM
I made no assumptions about you. I am simply pointing out that science answers as many questions as religion.

That last statement is blatantly false.

Science continues to whittle down the gaps that god fills. That's why most people subscribe to the "god of the gaps" persuasion. Science cannot explain something at the current time, God did it/created/filled/etc

Science answers so many more questions than religion and yet is open to critique and revision. Both are things religion is afraid of.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:24 AM
And just to furher spoil some things here for some people...

Angels do not have wings..man gave them that
Jesus was not a long haired white man....even the bible says that.

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 10:24 AM
You have yet to say anything but bullshit and name calling.

If you have studied them you have a reall funny way of displaying said knowledge.

Or is the Christian thing to do here is call me names and bascially spout off bullshit about how you know this or that but have yet to demonstrate it?


So take your Christian name calling elsewhere. Jesus would not of called me a douche he would of explained his point of view there Professor Asshat!

Do you REALLY think i'm gonna sit here & type out some long history of Christianity for you or anyone else???

My time is just too valuable to waste that kind of time on people who will scoff & guffaw at every bit of it, nothing i would waste my time on is going to change your mind or anyone elses.

Like i said, i couldnt care less what you think i know or dont know...it just doesnt matter to me.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:25 AM
That last statement is blatantly false.

Science continues to whittle down the gaps that god fills. That's why most people subscribe to the "god of the gaps" persuasion. Science cannot explain something at the current time, God did it/created/filled/etc

Science answers so many more questions than religion and yet is open to critique and revision. Both are things religion is afraid of.


Thus the whole book of Genesis mor or less.

Man had no clue so it must of been God.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:26 AM
Do you REALLY think i'm gonna sit here & type out some long history of Christianity for you or anyone else???

My time is just too valuable to waste that kind of time on people who will scoff & guffaw at every bit of it, nothing i would waste my time on is going to change your mind or anyone elses.

Like i said, i couldnt care less what you think i know or dont know...it just doesnt matter to me.


Well you have spent so much of your valuable time dislpaying such Christian values as calling me a douche that I thought you might humor us with just one post of some sort of intelligent dialogue?

No one is asking you to change anyone's mind.

I am asking you to put up or shut up.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 10:26 AM
Do you REALLY think i'm gonna sit here & type out some long history of Christianity for you or anyone else???

My time is just too valuable to waste that kind of time on people who will scoff & guffaw at every bit of it, nothing i would waste my time on is going to change your mind or anyone elses.

Like i said, i couldnt care less what you think i know or dont know...it just doesnt matter to me.

Ah, the "I don't want to waste my time with you" argument. Awesome.

It's arrogant and insecure.

Chiefless
12-02-2007, 10:28 AM
The same infoulable man wrote the Bible as well.


Man looked around, couldn't figure out where shit came from thus we have "God".

I guess this is my point. There are holes in science that we use "God" to fill. Until science proves there is no God, then logically, it has to be accepted as a possibility. You can say "I believe there is no God" and may be proven right. But right now NO ONE knows for a fact. THAT is science. Science has yet to observe there is not a God.

Personally, I believe in science...I really think there is something to fractal geometry. MAYBE that is God. But to say that there definitely is NOT a god without evidence is the same as saying there definitely IS a god without evidence. So to dismiss religious beliefs as total farce is, in a way, not believing in science.

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 10:28 AM
Well you have spent so much of your valuable time dislpaying such Christian values as calling me a douche that I thought you might humor us with just one post of some sort of intelligent dialogue?

No one is asking you to change anyone's mind.

I am asking you to put up or shut up.

Well, i asked you first if you'll remember...where is the evidence that most Christians dont know the history.

Why dont you go start another lame thread or something.

Your not going to back me into any corner here, we can do this all day.

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 10:29 AM
Ah, the "I don't want to waste my time with you" argument. Awesome.

It's arrogant and insecure.

Much like you.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:29 AM
See the wise Chirstian would point out some of the things the Bible has accurately foretold. For instance that this world will end in a fiery death.

There are several things in the Bible that cannot be discounted but I belive they are more from the old testament rather than the new.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:32 AM
Well, i asked you first if you'll remember...where is the evidence that most Christians dont know the history.

Why dont you go start another lame thread or something.

Your not going to back me into any corner here, we can do this all day.


Ok for the second time...


Do you have a Christmas Tree in your house?
Do your kids or did you go trick or treating?
Do you color Easter Eggs?
Do you approve of the 5-Point Star as the Symbol on American military vehicles?

Did you know all of those are Pagan traditions?


You have backed yourself in a corner my friend. I didn't do it. It is not my fault yo can't put up anything but name calling and multiple posts explaining how your time is too valuable to write anything worth reading.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 10:36 AM
I guess this is my point. There are holes in science that we use "God" to fill. Until science proves there is no God, then logically, it has to be accepted as a possibility.

Whoa now. Science keeps whittling down the evidence for a God and the gaps he can hide in.

What is the probability that god exists? Is it 50%?

You can say "I believe there is no God" and may be proven right. But right now NO ONE knows for a fact. THAT is science. Science has yet to observe there is not a God.

Ah, but here you make two mistakes. First, no one knows at the current time and this defeats an entire argument made by believers. Believers say god cannot be observed by science or measured therein. (SUPERnatural) So either you don't believe in that or you are contradicting yourself..

Moreover, I would hope you acknowledge where the onus lies for evidence. It lies with the BELIEVER. Not science, not the non-believer, but with the one who makes the claim!


Personally, I believe in science...I really think there is something to fractal geometry. MAYBE that is God. But to say that there definitely is NOT a god without evidence is the same as saying there definitely IS a god without evidence. So to dismiss religious beliefs as total farce is, in a way, not believing in science.

Exactly right. It's about probability. The existence of god can be whittled to close to 0%, but that doesn't discount the notion that he exists. It just means it's not probable. Again, the onus is on the believers for evidence/proof.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 10:36 AM
Much like you.

Ah, you've ignored my posts for the most part and then come in with this.

Hmmm.

Care to provide any evidence for your belief?

Adept Havelock
12-02-2007, 10:38 AM
Thanks for the movie review, IJ. Looks like I'll be taking the Nieces and Nephews to see this one. Sounds good.

Chiefless
12-02-2007, 10:39 AM
Thus the whole book of Genesis mor or less.

Man had no clue so it must of been God.

The book of Genisis did have all of the steps of evolution in the correct order, though. So, as a metaphore for evolution (whether intentional or not) it IS "scientifically accurate."

And I agree with you that religion and Science are really NOT that far apart...

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 10:40 AM
Thanks for the movie review, IJ. Looks like I'll be taking the Nieces and Nephews to see this one. Sounds good.

You won't be disappointed. Have you read the books?

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 10:40 AM
Ok for the second time...


Do you have a Christmas Tree in your house?
Do your kids or did you go trick or treating?
Do you color Easter Eggs?
Do you approve of the 5-Point Star as the Symbol on American military vehicles?

Did you know all of those are Pagan traditions?


You have backed yourself in a corner my friend. I didn't do it. It is not my fault yo can't put up anything but name calling and multiple posts explaining how your time is too valuable to write anything worth reading.

Not that you would believe me, but yes, i know of the pagan history behind all of those things.

Thats just it, its HISTORY... i really dont think my God is offended by a tree, when myself & everyone in my family knows the real reason for Christmas...its nothing more than pleasant looking & nice smelling decoration.

Yes, my kids went out on Halloween...its become a chance for kids to dress up & get candy...a far cry from the pagan rituals of Samhain.

IMO, all of those traditions have been rendered harmless...completely different from the original meaning.

As far as the 5 pointed star, it was always my understanding that it had to be turned top point down to represent a goats head.

I cant believe that you think that only yourself & a few elite brainiacs know these simple bits of history.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 10:41 AM
The book of Genisis did have all of the steps of evolution in the correct order, though. So, as a metaphore for evolution (whether intentional or not) it IS "scientifically accurate."

And I agree with you that religion and Science are really NOT that far apart...

Again, horribly put.

Science and Religion are WAY apart. Dogma is the main reason.

I have to go for now. Nice talking.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:41 AM
Whoa now. Science keeps whittling down the evidence for a God and the gaps he can hide in.

What is the probability that god exists? Is it 50%?



Ah, but here you make two mistakes. First, no one knows at the current time and this defeats an entire argument made by believers. Believers say god cannot be observed by science or measured therein. (SUPERnatural) So either you don't believe in that or you are contradicting yourself..

Moreover, I would hope you acknowledge where the onus lies for evidence. It lies with the BELIEVER. Not science, not the non-believer, but with the one who makes the claim!



Exactly right. It's about probability. The existence of god can be whittled to close to 0%, but that doesn't discount the notion that he exists. It just means it's not probable. Again, the onus is on the believers for evidence/proof.


What it comes down to is can people comprehend that at some point something had to come from nothing?


There is the theory that mere vaccuum caused the "big bang". But then I ask where did the laws come from that provided the pgysics to allow vaccuum to do what it does?

One thing is for sure is eveything in this universe is symbiotic. We are all a part of everything and cannot live without death providing the means for life.

Sometimes I think Yoda is more in tune with what "God" or "us" really are than Christians or Muslims.

Pagans for the most part worshiped these very "energies" but as Gods. Where they fell short imho is they limited those energies to the Earth solely and not the universe. But there was a general ignorance of the universe too.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:42 AM
Not that you would believe me, but yes, i know of the pagan history behind all of those things.

Thats just it, its HISTORY... i really dont think my God is offended by a tree, when myself & everyone in my family knows the real reason for Christmas...its nothing more than pleasant looking & nice smelling decoration.

Yes, my kids went out on Halloween...its become a chance for kids to dress up & get candy...a far cry from the pagan rituals of Samhain.

IMO, all of those traditions have been rendered harmless...completely different from the original meaning.

As far as the 5 pointed star, it was always my understanding that it had to be turned top point down to represent a goats head.

I cant believe that you think that only yourself & a few elite brainiacs know these simple bits of history.


If your God is not offended by a tree or your kids dressing up as monsters why would he be offended if you watched this movie or Harry Potter?

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:44 AM
Not that you would believe me, but yes, i know of the pagan history behind all of those things.

Thats just it, its HISTORY... i really dont think my God is offended by a tree, when myself & everyone in my family knows the real reason for Christmas...its nothing more than pleasant looking & nice smelling decoration.

Yes, my kids went out on Halloween...its become a chance for kids to dress up & get candy...a far cry from the pagan rituals of Samhain.

IMO, all of those traditions have been rendered harmless...completely different from the original meaning.

As far as the 5 pointed star, it was always my understanding that it had to be turned top point down to represent a goats head.

I cant believe that you think that only yourself & a few elite brainiacs know these simple bits of history.


Goats head? OMG.

they are different of the original meaning cause the Church, i.e. Chirstians stole the holidays and "re-invented" them to filter out the Pagans.

What better way than to steal your enemies "stuff" and use it in your own way as if you invented it all along?

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:47 AM
The book of Genisis did have all of the steps of evolution in the correct order, though. So, as a metaphore for evolution (whether intentional or not) it IS "scientifically accurate."

And I agree with you that religion and Science are really NOT that far apart...


Science is nothing other than man coming to understand what he didn't.

That is why I say science falls short as being "the" answer as well.


There were other galaxies and planets out there but untill us dumb humans saw it we never believed it. But they were there the whole time.

So I guess you can say science is a way of man taking "God's" work and interpreting it in a way that gives man the feeling that he has "figured it out"

I guess you could say there is the person who just gets in the car and drives. And there is the person that understands why a car works in the first place.

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 10:48 AM
If your God is not offended by a tree or your kids dressing up as monsters why would he be offended if you watched this movie or Harry Potter?

My daughter is a huge Harry Potter fan, she's read every book...i dont really have a problem with it, i was a D&D player as a kid & didnt get into ritual black magic...i dont think Harry will lead her into it either.

The premise of Compass is a bit different, a story about killing God definitely gives me pause...i wouldnt approve of either of my 2 seeing it, but since they are 17 & 18 i cant really do much about it if they did.

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 10:51 AM
Goats head? OMG.

they are different of the original meaning cause the Church, i.e. Chirstians stole the holidays and "re-invented" them to filter out the Pagans.

What better way than to steal your enemies "stuff" and use it in your own way as if you invented it all along?

Gahhh, you think i didnt know this???

Yes, they co-opted many things to make the transition more palatable for pagans to switch sides. Whatever it takes to bring them in, so that they could be educated in Christianity.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:53 AM
Gahhh, you think i didnt know this???

Yes, they co-opted many things to make the transition more palatable for pagans to switch sides. Whatever it takes to bring them in, so that they could be brainwashed\threatened into Christianity.


What a Chirstian thing to do. ;)


BTW I fixed your post.

Deberg_1990
12-02-2007, 10:53 AM
Amazing.

Forgive me if im wrong, but i thought this thread was about a movie????

petegz28
12-02-2007, 10:54 AM
Amazing.

Forgive me if im wrong, but i thought this thread was about a movie????


No. It is an "offensive" movie cause it contains make-believe and imagination!!!!


WE WILL HAVE NONE OF THAT HERE!!!! :shake:

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 10:56 AM
What a Chirstian thing to do. ;)


BTW I fixed your post.

No question, the early church was power mad & backwards in their thinking...i never said anything to the contrary.

But were not in the Middle Ages anymore, despite the fact that some sects still act like we are.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:01 AM
No question, the early church were power mad & backwards in their thinking...i never said anything to the contrary.

But were not in the Middle Ages anymore, despite the fact that some sects still act like we are.


No not now since the Church has all but abolished it's root religion, paganism, cast it as witchcraft and evil and convinced people of their ways ther eis no need to kill in the name of Jesus anymore.


The "evil" the Church was so paranoid of has been essentialy bred out of society. And the parts that haven't been have been cast as witchcraft and devil worshiping.


So now the church as achieved it's goal which is true global power.


And how many millions did they kill to spread the peace of Christianity?


See the problem is not Jesus. It is the church's manipulation of Jesus and religon in general for that matter to make people believe they will go to hell for watching Harry Potter.

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:03 AM
Bla bla bla....I am a strong Christian....but keep that witchcraft away from me cause somehow I am incapable of distinguishing reality from fantasy and the fantasy may somehow infringe upon my beliefs!


HOOEY!!!!

Most "Chirstians" don't hav ea flipping clue about the history of their religion or they would shit their pants!

This response shows how little you know about Christians and about the Christian belief.

You, if you are an adult, might be able to distinguish between reality and fantasy, but kids, by in large, are not capable of that distinction.

Your history of the Christion belief is probably pretty biased and you will believe anything told if it agrees with that bias.

It's a shame .... for you.

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:05 AM
That is not what I said. I never said they "pretend". Pay attention son. I said they were ignorant to the history of their religion.

I challenge you to 'enlighten' all of the Christians here about the history of our religion.

BTW, I find my history written in the Bible. Preachers, Evangilists, Pastors, and the like only interpet what they read as well.

If you have a problem with the Bible, this is wholly your problem and not ours.

Bill S Preston
12-02-2007, 11:05 AM
Looks like another version of that crappy movie wth the lion in it. I doubt that I'll spend thirty bucks to go see it. In fact, I rarely see any movie that's worth the money the theatre's charge.

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:06 AM
It must suck growing up in some of these families whre as a child you are not even allowed to pretend you can do things like fly or do magic without your parent telling you how it's all "THE DEBIL"!!!

That just brings out more of your ignorance about Christians and what they believe.

You are a waste of human flesh.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:06 AM
This response shows how little you know about Christians and about the Christian belief.

You, if you are an adult, might be able to distinguish between reality and fantasy, but kids, by in large, are not capable of that distinction.

Your history of the Christion belief is probably pretty biased and you will believe anything told if it agrees with that bias.

It's a shame .... for you.

I grew up as a Christian. I went to church every Sunday and Sunday school with my grandparents in a Baptist chruch where both were active.

I went to school in my elementry years in a Catholic school and married a devout Catholic.


I'd say I have a take most others do not for the most part.


What is a shame is you assume shit instead of asking. How are kids not able to make the distinction? How did I grow up knowing Darth Vader and "the force" were all pretend?

It's called insecurity with people like you. You are such a staunch Christian you are too scared to indulge in fantasy or let your imagination (which God gave you to use" run free.

And then you deprive your children of such fairy tale fun!

SHAME ON YOU Sir. Shame on you.....

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:07 AM
That just brings out more of your ignorance about Christians and what they believe.

You are a waste of human flesh.



More of the Christian spirit!!!!

ROFL ROFL ROFL

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:07 AM
I challenge you to 'enlighten' all of the Christians here about the history of our religion.

BTW, I find my history written in the Bible. Preachers, Evangilists, Pastors, and the like only interpet what they read as well.

If you have a problem with the Bible, this is wholly your problem and not ours.


Yes the Bible. It isn't biased or anything is it? :)

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:09 AM
Gee now I am a douchebag? How Christian of you!!!


I got my history from various places over the course of 36 years.


I am not here to convince anyone of anything. You are free to believe what you want.


But just to humor you a bit let's look at the obvious of how Christianity came about and how most Christian tradition is rooted in Paganism.

In fact let's just start with the Church more or less murdering off Pagans so they could have control.

I bet most Christians think most Christian holidays were founded for the reasons you are told from the day you are born!!!

You throw out facts without backing and you expect credibility?

How about giving us reference to those various places over the 36 years of your life.

Your concepts are ludicrious at best and totally unprovable, at least to date. You provide nothing but your biased opinion of what "Most Christians" are thinking. You have gone past living on the edge here, you have wandered into ignorance of the subject.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:09 AM
I challenge you to 'enlighten' all of the Christians here about the history of our religion.

BTW, I find my history written in the Bible. Preachers, Evangilists, Pastors, and the like only interpet what they read as well.

If you have a problem with the Bible, this is wholly your problem and not ours.


I guess you believe Jesus really looks like the guitarist from Skynard too don't ya???


ROFL

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:11 AM
You throw out facts without backing and you expect credibility?

How about giving us reference to those various places over the 36 years of your life.

Your concepts are ludicrious at best and totally unprovable, at least to date. You provide nothing but your biased opinion of what "Most Christians" are thinking. You have gone past living on the edge here, you have wandered into ignorance of the subject.


Without backing? Ok mouth prove Jesus rose from the dead?

Prove Dionysus didn't actually perform some of the VERY SAME miracles Jesus performed years before Jesus as around?


Explain why the Church had to hi-jack the Pagan religion to get people to "believe in Christianity"? Chew on that one for a bit sone and don't let your brain fry too much when you come to the logical conclusion.

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:12 AM
Yes I think actually most Christians world wide are ignorant to their religion and it's history.



The same people who oppose this movie and movies like Potter will also rasie a Christmas Tree in their house.


Ignorant to them the Christmas Tree is a PAGAN tradtion. And when you tell them this they scoff at it like "who cares".

But Harry Potter is THE DEBIL!


NO, harry potter is a witch. GEt your stuff straight.

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:13 AM
The same infoulable man wrote the Bible as well.


Man looked around, couldn't figure out where shit came from thus we have "God".

When you die with your science where will it get you?

I think you are beyond hope other than that of God. You might want to find a Church and start attending just so you can validate your hatred of something you know absolutely nothing about.

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 11:13 AM
Without backing? Ok mouth prove Jesus rose from the dead?

Prove Dionysus didn't actually perform some of the VERY SAME miracles Jesus performed years before Jesus as around?


Explain why the Church had to hi-jack the Pagan religion to get people to "believe in Christianity"? Chew on that one for a bit sone and don't let your brain fry too much when you come to the logical conclusion.

You SAY you believe in God, but every single post of yours makes a mockery of the concept.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:15 AM
You SAY you believe in God, but every single post of yours makes a mockery of it.


WRONG! YOU think I am making a mockery of God caus eI am not spouting off what YOU believe.


See this is when the Christians of old would stake me to a wooden post and fry me alive in all their Christian love.

Adept Havelock
12-02-2007, 11:16 AM
You SAY you believe in God, but every single post of yours makes a mockery of it.

Personally, I find all superstitions equally silly so I don't have a dog in this fight. That said, I don't see him mocking God nearly as much as he's mocking certain Dogmas. JMO. :shrug:

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:18 AM
When you die with your science where will it get you?

I think you are beyond hope other than that of God. You might want to find a Church and start attending just so you can validate your hatred of something you know absolutely nothing about.


Yes find a church that stole a religion in some cases by means of mass murder and ask them to tell me why "they" are right?


Dude it is not hatred. It is objective perception on how man has used religion to brainwash the masses for means of control.

Look at the way it has you all jumping mad!

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:18 AM
I grew up as a Christian. I went to church every Sunday and Sunday school with my grandparents in a Baptist chruch where both were active.

I went to school in my elementry years in a Catholic school and married a devout Catholic.


I'd say I have a take most others do not for the most part.


What is a shame is you assume shit instead of asking. How are kids not able to make the distinction? How did I grow up knowing Darth Vader and "the force" were all pretend?

It's called insecurity with people like you. You are such a staunch Christian you are too scared to indulge in fantasy or let your imagination (which God gave you to use" run free.

And then you deprive your children of such fairy tale fun!

SHAME ON YOU Sir. Shame on you.....

You claim to be a Christian but have not proven it in the slightest here.

I assumed nothing, I said that you know nothing about Christianity. Just because you sit in a tub of water it does not make you a fish. In the same light you can grow up in a church and have zero relationship with God.

You say that it's a shame that I assume $#!t?

You said: It's called insecurity with people like you. You are such a staunch Christian you are too scared to indulge in fantasy or let your imagination (which God gave you to use" run free.

And then you deprive your children of such fairy tale fun!

You have no idea of how I raised my kids, nor do you have any idea of what types of movies I allow into my home.

If you are going to accuse someone of being a hypocrit you need to check your own back yard first.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:19 AM
Personally, I find all superstitions equally silly so I don't have a dog in this fight. That said, I don't see him mocking God nearly as much as he's mocking certain Dogmas. JMO. :shrug:


Exaclty.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:20 AM
You claim to be a Christian but have not proven it in the slightest here.

I assumed nothing, I said that you know nothing about Christianity. Just because you sit in a tub of water it does not make you a fish. In the same light you can grow up in a church and have zero relationship with God.

You say that it's a shame that I assume $#!t?

You said: It's called insecurity with people like you. You are such a staunch Christian you are too scared to indulge in fantasy or let your imagination (which God gave you to use" run free.

And then you deprive your children of such fairy tale fun!

You have no idea of how I raised my kids, nor do you have any idea of what types of movies I allow into my home.

If you are going to accuse someone of being a hypocrit you need to check your own back yard first.


Um no see you are wrong. I NEVER claimed to be a Christian. I said I was rasied by Chirsitans and attended catholic shools. I in no way claim to be a member of any religion.

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:20 AM
I guess you believe Jesus really looks like the guitarist from Skynard too don't ya???




Jesus looks like a middle eastern person. I think your opinion is really getting exposed here. You have a problem with Christianity and are drawing at all straws to discredit anyone that believes.

All you your rants and raves will do nothing to sway a believer, why you might ask? We all have faith, somehting that obviously you never gained.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:21 AM
Jesus looks like a middle eastern person. I think your opinion is really getting exposed here. You have a problem with Christianity and are drawing at all straws to discredit anyone that believes.

All you your rants and raves will do nothing to sway a believer, why you might ask? We all have faith, somehting that obviously you never gained.


Do you believe Angels really have wings?

And that is good. I am not here to "sway".

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 11:22 AM
WRONG! YOU think I am making a mockery of God caus eI am not spouting off what YOU believe.


See this is when the Christians of old would stake me to a wooden post and fry me alive in all their Christian love.

What version of God do you subscribe to, is it the God of the Bible???

I dont expect everyone to have the exact same ideas about it as me, but the Bible lays out some pretty strict outlines.

As far as i can see, you've made a joke of it all. And yes, i agree that many RELIGIONS have perverted Christianity and many RELIGIONS are responsible for atrocities...but my God has nothing to do with that, the sickness of man does.

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:22 AM
Without backing? Ok mouth prove Jesus rose from the dead?

Prove Dionysus didn't actually perform some of the VERY SAME miracles Jesus performed years before Jesus as around?


Explain why the Church had to hi-jack the Pagan religion to get people to "believe in Christianity"? Chew on that one for a bit sone and don't let your brain fry too much when you come to the logical conclusion.

I don't have to prove that Jesus rose from the dead. I have faith that he did and I'm content with that belief.

If you could make a logical argument it might be worth studying, but alas you have no logic in your claims, nor do you have any proof what so ever of anything you have claimed.

We will wait for your unbiased links to reference material.

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:23 AM
More of the Christian spirit!!!!



Just as much as you are showing. When in Rome...

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:24 AM
Organized religion be it Christianity or Islam or whatever has been the cause of more senseless murders throughout the history of man.

And all in the name of a "peacful and loiving" God.

See my problem is not with God. It is with man and the blind that follow those who maniplulate the masses with their "holyness".

Let me ask you all a question....

If there were no "church" would there still be a God?

Bill S Preston
12-02-2007, 11:24 AM
Why the hell is this a religious conversation? It's a stupid ass movie. If you don't like it, don't see it. If you do like it, than you should see it.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:24 AM
Just as much as you are showing. When in Rome...


Nice backtrack. You insult me in the same breath you claim yourself as a Chirstian. And now this???


ROFL

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:25 AM
Yes find a church that stole a religion in some cases by means of mass murder and ask them to tell me why "they" are right?


Dude it is not hatred. It is objective perception on how man has used religion to brainwash the masses for means of control.

Look at the way it has you all jumping mad!

If you think any of us are mad you must be spitting fire right now.

I'm as calm as can be. I know the truth and you are attacking it with all that you have. It's not enough, My God Lives. too bad about what you claim to believe.

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 11:25 AM
If there were no "church" would there still be a God?

If you believe in God like you say, you already know the answer to this.

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:26 AM
Nice backtrack. You insult me in the same breath you claim yourself as a Chirstian. And now this???




I've never claimed to be perfect, unlike you. I'm forgiven. Unrepentance is not a good way to live life. Wait and see.

a1na2
12-02-2007, 11:28 AM
If you believe in God like you say, you already know the answer to this.

Scott, he doesn't believe. That is an obvious stream of garbage he is putting out.

I'm going to let him stew in his own juices. I hope that someday he can have a relationship with God but until then I hope that he is as miserable as he can be so that when Jesus comes knocking he will only see a way up, not out.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:28 AM
I don't have to prove that Jesus rose from the dead. I have faith that he did and I'm content with that belief.

If you could make a logical argument it might be worth studying, but alas you have no logic in your claims, nor do you have any proof what so ever of anything you have claimed.

We will wait for your unbiased links to reference material.


Where are your unbiased links?

You can Goolge Paganism and do some reading. I think it would be of great help to you seriously.

I would suggest a simple search on Pagan Holidays and just read through the Holdiay's and how they are celebrated.

Then apply the factual context of how Christianity came about as "the" religion.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:29 AM
Scott, he doesn't believe. That is an obvious stream of garbage he is putting out.

I'm going to let him stew in his own juices. I hope that someday he can have a relationship with God but until then I hope that he is as miserable as he can be so that when Jesus comes knocking he will only see a way up, not out.


No you are wrong again fool. I just don't believe what YOU think I should believe.


And once again how Christian is it to wish me ill feelings?



Try practicing what you preach jack ass! ROFL

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:31 AM
Scott, he doesn't believe. That is an obvious stream of garbage he is putting out.

I'm going to let him stew in his own juices. I hope that someday he can have a relationship with God but until then I hope that he is as miserable as he can be so that when Jesus comes knocking he will only see a way up, not out.


And don't you go singing any "Yule" tide carols this Christmas around your Christmas tree this year.

the Talking Can
12-02-2007, 11:33 AM
painful thread

angel
12-02-2007, 11:34 AM
it's so funny to me that there is so much religious controversy over this book series

As I said in the other thread, this book doesn't kill god, and it doesn't say outright that there is no higher being. The main characters of the story are fighting a religious group that is following a fallen angel that claims to be "the real god", but he's not who he claims to be. He's telling them to do things that will eventually destroy the world. They don't know that what they're doing is wrong- they're doing it in the name of their church.

The books do touch on the idea that there is a higher power, but nobody really knows what or who that could be.

These books are just a fun fantasy story about a group of people called The Church, that are following the wrong higher being. The religious people who are against these books, In my opinion, didn't read them very well. They saw that "the church" was the bad guy in the books, and went from there. They immediately took offense, and didn't stop to read the part that says that "the church" was following the wrong guy. It's not their fault, per se, they didn't know that the dude they were following wasn't the "real god".

And sure, Pullman is an atheist. But that doesn't mean he's a bad guy.

Just as The Chronicles of Narnia are a bunch of stories that have a religious overtone, and The Wizard of Oz is an allegory of politics, His Dark Materials are a series of books that say (in my opinion) that not all religions can be right. Think about it: there are so many different religious groups, and all of them think they're THE right one. Is that possible? Pullman doesn't pick on a particular religious group. He's just writing a story. It's a fun story, too.

I'm not the best at getting all my thoughts out the way I want them to, and it's been a while since I've read the books, but that's what I remember from them. I'm going to get the books back out after the game today, and refresh my memory. (yes, I own the books, and I've had them for a while-- I also own Chronicles of Narnia, for whatever that's worth)

my original post on this topic:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4416667&postcount=37

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 11:34 AM
painful thread

Like Clemenza said..."these things have to happen sometimes, it clears out the bad blood".

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:36 AM
I've never claimed to be perfect, unlike you. I'm forgiven. Unrepentance is not a good way to live life. Wait and see.


Where did I claim to be perfect?

Here is a woderful link for you especially....


http://www.eliyah.com/paganexp.html

Demonpenz
12-02-2007, 11:40 AM
i am surprised there hasn't been a push by congress or senate majority leaders to slap some kind of warning on this movie. I guess I can't look to anyone in charge of this mickey mouse administration to do anything right

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:42 AM
i am surprised there hasn't been a push by congress or senate majority leaders to slap some kind of warning on this movie. I guess I can't look to anyone in charge of this mickey mouse administration to do anything right


What kind of warning would that be? Mind you the Gov is not to take a stance on religion one way or the other.

Demonpenz
12-02-2007, 11:44 AM
What kind of warning would that be? Mind you the Gov is not to take a stance on religion one way or the other.


some kind of parental warning. parents are used to R rated movies and stuff like that there needs to be one that warns them about it's stance against God, but i guess that is like finding wmd's or no new taxes. It isn't going to happen

alanm
12-02-2007, 11:47 AM
And as always a religious argument proves nothing to both sides. As always we won't find out the truth until we're dead. One side gets to have their ticket punched in the end. The other side gets to sit there on the side of the road and lament their ultimate fate.
Arguing about it solves nothing. :shake:

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:48 AM
some kind of parental warning. parents are used to R rated movies and stuff like that there needs to be one that warns them about it's stance against God, but i guess that is like finding wmd's or no new taxes. It isn't going to happen


Dude the fact you even think that should happen is so jacked up on so many levels.

It's ****ING MAKE BELIEVE!


I don't see anyone screaming for warning on movies that have the phrase "God damn" or God damn it" in it?!

And I do belive it is against one of the 10 Commandments to say God damn.

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 11:50 AM
I would like to recommend that everyone on either side of the fence google up "Miracle at Fatima".

Some astounding & unexplainable events happened that were witnessed by literally dozens of scientists & other people with no vested interest in proving God.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:50 AM
And as always a religious argument proves nothing to both sides. As always we won't find out the truth until we're dead. One side gets to have their ticket punched in the end. The other side gets to sit there on the side of the road and lament their ultimate fate.
Arguing about it solves nothing. :shake:


What backwars talking crap.


We won' find out the truth until we die yet you seem to already know the fate of the 2 sides?


Dude you need to try actually practicing the laws of the religion you claim to follow or shut up with it. We have already seen you have a problem with the proverbial Christan peacefulness as you have gone as far as to call me a waste of human flesh.

Demonpenz
12-02-2007, 11:50 AM
I know it won't happen. I guess that is what happens in a post 9-11 world

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:50 AM
I would like to recommend that everyone on either side of the fence google up "Miracle at Fatima".

Some astounding & unexplainable events happened that were witnessed by literally dozens of scientists & other people with no vested interest in proving God.


Can you shoot me a link please?

petegz28
12-02-2007, 11:51 AM
I know it won't happen. I guess that is what happens in a post 9-11 world


what is that supposed to mean?

alanm
12-02-2007, 11:52 AM
What backwars talking crap.


We won' find out the truth until we die yet you seem to already know the fate of the 2 sides?


Dude you need to try actually practicing the laws of the religion you claim to follow or shut up with it. We have already seen you have a problem with the proverbial Christan peacefulness as you have gone as far as to call me a waste of human flesh.
Uh dude, I think you have me confused with someone else. :shake:

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 11:53 AM
Can you shoot me a link please?

Only my math skills are worse than my computer skills, but its very well documented on google.

Look it up when you get a chance.

Baby Lee
12-02-2007, 11:54 AM
What is a shame is you assume shit instead of asking.
Brave words for the guy who has profiled every Christian out there.

We're all a bunch of rubes who know nothing about history, think Jesus was in Skynyrd, and take things so literally that Corky's calling us retards.

Baby Lee
12-02-2007, 12:00 PM
it's so funny to me that there is so much religious controversy over this book series

As I said in the other thread, this book doesn't kill god, and it doesn't say outright that there is no higher being. The main characters of the story are fighting a religious group that is following a fallen angel that claims to be "the real god", but he's not who he claims to be. He's telling them to do things that will eventually destroy the world. They don't know that what they're doing is wrong- they're doing it in the name of their church.
I have to say that's a distinction without a difference.
It may not say that there isn't a God. But it's surely saying that the God you believe in is lying to and harming you.

It's like defending someone who calls the Chiefs the shittiest team ever by saying that they aren't really attacking the Chiefs because they don't rule out the possibility of good football existing somewhere.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 12:13 PM
Brave words for the guy who has profiled every Christian out there.

We're all a bunch of rubes who know nothing about history, think Jesus was in Skynyrd, and take things so literally that Corky's calling us retards.


Nice sarcasm. I am sorry if I got a little closer to home than fits your comfort level.

Baby Lee
12-02-2007, 12:18 PM
Nice sarcasm. I am sorry if I got a little closer to home than fits your comfort level.
You're nowhere close. I'm looking at this thread and seeing a guy in fixed mortal combat with an opponent that's not even there. It's like Charlie practicing his kung fu on 'Always Sunny.'

petegz28
12-02-2007, 12:20 PM
You're nowhere close. I'm looking at this thread and seeing a guy in fixed mortal combat with an opponent that's not even there. It's like Charlie practicing his kung fu on 'Always Sunny.'


Ok Always Sunny is hillarious.

listopencil
12-02-2007, 03:02 PM
I know it won't happen. I guess that is what happens in a post 9-11 world


I sure hope it doesn't happen. That would have to be one of the dumbest things ever done by our government in the history of its existence if they did.

I'm amazed by how many people are freaking out about this. I guess I shouldn't, in a country where we have so many ****ing morons who don't even understand why prayer in public schools is such an evil idea. I guess those people aren't shy about giving Christianity the ol' home field advantage in just about any political debate in this nation.


That's OK. Other parents can keep fighting the good fight against freedom of speech. I'll continue to protect my children from evangelical Christians.

Pitt Gorilla
12-02-2007, 04:15 PM
Democrats raise their kids to be democrats by the way they talk to them daily. Same goes for republicans. Same goes for Christians. Same goes for atheists...Otherwise it's just brain washing.I agree and that just seems strange. We brainwash our kids to believe the way we do.

Mosbonian
12-02-2007, 04:42 PM
Organized religion be it Christianity or Islam or whatever has been the cause of more senseless murders throughout the history of man.

And all in the name of a "peacful and loiving" God.

See my problem is not with God. It is with man and the blind that follow those who maniplulate the masses with their "holyness".

Let me ask you all a question....

If there were no "church" would there still be a God?

that would be the church of Christ....as spelled out in his teachings.

BTW.....I celebrate the Christmas season, but know and acknowledge that December 25th wasn't truly the date of Christ's birth. And in the church I attend we don't acknowledge it as such.

Do I celebrate Easter? Not in the same sense you do....do I celebrate the act that is symbolizes..yes, but not the date.

But in everything else....this is the one thing I sometimes wonder. We spend all our time here debating what religion has done to man/womankind...how it contradicts itself in the Bible and the horrors that 'religion' has wrought on this world.

Does anyone even wonder if Christ is sitting in heaven shaking his head in wonder at how we debate the small things, yet forget the most important aspect of his teachings... "love one another"

No matter what deity you do or don't believe in, the sad fact is that we cannot master even the simplest of feats.....respecting and treating each other with kindness.

:shake:


mmaddog
*******

petegz28
12-02-2007, 04:46 PM
that would be the church of Christ....as spelled out in his teachings.

BTW.....I celebrate the Christmas season, but know and acknowledge that December 25th wasn't truly the date of Christ's birth. And in the church I attend we don't acknowledge it as such.

Do I celebrate Easter? Not in the same sense you do....do I celebrate the act that is symbolizes..yes, but not the date.

But in everything else....this is the one thing I sometimes wonder. We spend all our time here debating what religion has done to man/womankind...how it contradicts itself in the Bible and the horrors that 'religion' has wrought on this world.

Does anyone even wonder if Christ is sitting in heaven shaking his head in wonder at how we debate the small things, yet forget the most important aspect of his teachings... "love one another"

No matter what deity you do or don't believe in, the sad fact is that we cannot master even the simplest of feats.....respecting and treating each other with kindness.

:shake:


mmaddog
*******

what kind of church do you attend?

Mosbonian
12-02-2007, 04:52 PM
what kind of church do you attend?

I named it....I attend the church of Christ. we are non-denominational.

But if you are as studied as you have professed thus far in this thread you would have already known that. I will acknowledge that it appears you have studied greatly on religion, but not on Christian principles.

mmaddog
*******

Baby Lee
12-02-2007, 04:53 PM
what kind of church do you attend?
First sentence

petegz28
12-02-2007, 04:55 PM
I named it....I attend the church of Christ. we are non-denominational.

But if you are as studied as you have professed thus far in this thread you would have already known that. I will acknowledge that it appears you have studied greatly on religion, but not on Christian principles.

mmaddog
*******


Where have I gone wrong on Christian principles? I think that would be the alleged Chirstians calling me a douche and a waste of human flesh.


I hav enot met anyone who attends the Church of Christ. I would be interested in hearing more about it.

However if what you say is true you are hardly in what is labled as the "main stream chirstians"

Mosbonian
12-02-2007, 04:56 PM
First sentence

Thank you....

And FTR, the "c" in church is not capitalized because that would give it great authority and significance.

mmaddog
*******

Mosbonian
12-02-2007, 04:58 PM
Where have I gone wrong on Christian principles? I think that would be the alleged Chirstians calling me a douche and a waste of human flesh.


I hav enot met anyone who attends the Church of Christ. I would be interested in hearing more about it.

However if what you say is true you are hardly in what is labled as the "main stream chirstians"

We are not "mainstream' in any way....there are a lot of our practices that many find too conservative or, in some cases, sexist.

mmaddog
*******

petegz28
12-02-2007, 04:59 PM
Ok grammar lesson aside this is part of my problem with organized religion. Take Chirstianity, there are several sects who claim to worship the same Lord and God. How can there be so many different takes on the same dieties? This is where I think the divine leaves the equation and man enters.

I mean attending a Baptist church while attending Catholic schools really gets one to queston things in a different way. Like why do they need to go about things in their way if they are all worhiping the same thing?

did Jesus say one thing to catholics and something different to baptists?

petegz28
12-02-2007, 05:00 PM
We are not "mainstream' in any way....there are a lot of our practices that many find too conservative or, in some cases, sexist.

mmaddog
*******


Well going out on a limb here I assume by sexist you mean 1 sex is more dominant than the other?

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 05:03 PM
I think that would be the alleged Chirstians calling me a douche and a waste of human flesh.


"Oh poor me, some people called me names that dont even have cursewords in them..." - :rolleyes:

You've done everything but come right out & say "Christians are ignorant".

Dont imply that because some disagree with you they are ignorant & the name calling wouldnt have started in the first place.

angel
12-02-2007, 05:04 PM
I have to say that's a distinction without a difference.
It may not say that there isn't a God. But it's surely saying that the God you believe in is lying to and harming you.

It's like defending someone who calls the Chiefs the shittiest team ever by saying that they aren't really attacking the Chiefs because they don't rule out the possibility of good football existing somewhere.

These books don't even take place on this world. It's a FICTIONAL world. In this fictional world, there is one religious group who is following a false god and doing bad things in his name. NOWHERE in the books does it ever say anything against Christians, Catholics, Jewish, Buddhists or any other religion known on this planet. In the books, "the church" doesn't ever practice any similarities to any church I know of. It's a fake, Fictional, story meant to entertain.

This whole argument is ridiculous... is all I'm saying. It's not validated by the story- at least not the story I read. If someone on here can point out a passage in the books that specifically, or even "between the lines", says something against Christians or whoever is mad at these books, please, PLEASE, post it here so I can see it.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 05:04 PM
"Oh poor me, some people called me names that dont even have cursewords in them..." - :rolleyes:

You've done everything but come right out & say "Christians are ignorant".

Dont imply that because some disagree with you they are ignorant & the name calling wouldnt have started in the first place.


No I cam right out and said that most Christians are ignorant to the history of the Christian religion.

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 05:05 PM
No I cam right out and said that most Christians are ignorant to the history of the Christian religion.

And that was your first mistake.

Deberg_1990
12-02-2007, 05:06 PM
Well, judging by the number of posts in this thread, this flick should be a box office smash!

petegz28
12-02-2007, 05:07 PM
And that was your first mistake.


But it is true. Most seem not too. Otherwise the daily false perpetuations would not be tolerated and accepted.

Mosbonian
12-02-2007, 05:08 PM
Well going out on a limb here I assume by sexist you mean 1 sex is more dominant than the other?

Dominant...no.

We have always followed the teaching that the man is the leader of the household. But not in the sense that one would believe...you see, while I am the spiritual leader of my household, I would be nothing without my mate, my wife, who is my strength. As a man I am prone to weakness, and as such, the very rock of the foundation of my home comes from the strength that I get from her love.

While we believe that men should be the leaders, it by no means belittles the status of women. In fact, when we assess who we choose as elders and deacons in our church, we also look to their wives.

mmaddog
*******

petegz28
12-02-2007, 05:13 PM
Dominant...no.

We have always followed the teaching that the man is the leader of the household. But not in the sense that one would believe...you see, while I am the spiritual leader of my household, I would be nothing without my mate, my wife, who is my strength. As a man I am prone to weakness, and as such, the very rock of the foundation of my home comes from the strength that I get from her love.


mmaddog
*******


Well I would see that as more of the role of the male vs. male domination. As long as the female is willing to accept that then that is what works for you.

Personally though I would say she is the true leader. Why? Cause you feel men need to be the leader to better protect and love and provide for your female partner.

So while you may lead in spirituality she leads you and why you do the things you do. Yuu have even admitted you would be nothing without her. I agree with that as well. She would be nothing without you of course.

Very symbiotic though. I have always felt women were smart enough to let men think they run things when it is the women who usually benefit the most.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 05:14 PM
"Oh poor me, some people called me names that dont even have cursewords in them..." - :rolleyes:

You've done everything but come right out & say "Christians are ignorant".

Dont imply that because some disagree with you they are ignorant & the name calling wouldnt have started in the first place.

At what point does calling someone ignorant actually describe them?

That is, calling a mentally disabled child retarded is accurate. It may not be PC because we go to great lengths not to offend people (something Religion takes full advantage of).

Likewise, when does calling Christians ignorant actually start to be the truth?

Sure-Oz
12-02-2007, 05:14 PM
Who knew a review of a movie would cause so much shit

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 05:15 PM
I find it funny that believers cite the Bible yet their creation story clearly has women below man. One has them created out of man and one has them created SECOND, after man.


If that's not sexist in and of itself, I don't know what is.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 05:15 PM
Who knew a review of a movie would cause so much shit


:p


To be sure, it's a good movie.

Mosbonian
12-02-2007, 05:17 PM
At what point does calling someone ignorant actually describe them?

That is, calling a mentally disabled child retarded is accurate. It may not be PC because we go to great lengths not to offend people (something Religion takes full advantage of).

is there any particular reason you chose this simile? if your children were mentally disabled you might be less prone to choosing this simile.

mmaddog
*******

Sure-Oz
12-02-2007, 05:17 PM
:p


To be sure, it's a good movie.
I have wanted to go see it, since it is a fictional, fantasy movie and the polar bear fighting looked cool

Demonpenz
12-02-2007, 05:18 PM
God's message is so strong evil is turning to alternative mediums to try to pull people away from jesus.

Mosbonian
12-02-2007, 05:18 PM
I find it funny that believers cite the Bible yet their creation story clearly has women below man. One has them created out of man and one has them created SECOND, after man.


If that's not sexist in and of itself, I don't know what is.

I think not....but if that is the way you would like to interpret it that is fine.

mmaddog
*******

petegz28
12-02-2007, 05:18 PM
I find it funny that believers cite the Bible yet their creation story clearly has women below man. One has them created out of man and one has them created SECOND, after man.


If that's not sexist in and of itself, I don't know what is.


Well thre again that is myth. I truly belive history was revised to portray male dominance.

Aside from all the daVinci code bs there is actual scripture of Mary Magdeline intenionally left out of the Bible.

angel
12-02-2007, 05:20 PM
:p


To be sure, it's a good movie.
why did you get to see the movie already?

Doesn't it come out next weekend?

Have you read the books? If not, you should- they're awesome!

petegz28
12-02-2007, 05:21 PM
why did you get to see the movie already?

Doesn't it come out next weekend?

Have you read the books? If not, you should- they're awesome!

There was a sneak preview last night.

Mosbonian
12-02-2007, 05:21 PM
Well I would see that as more of the role of the male vs. male domination. As long as the female is willing to accept that then that is what works for you.

Personally though I would say she is the true leader. Why? Cause you feel men need to be the leader to better protect and love and provide for your female partner.

So while you may lead in spirituality she leads you and why you do the things you do. Yuu have even admitted you would be nothing without her. I agree with that as well. She would be nothing without you of course.

Very symbiotic though. I have always felt women were smart enough to let men think they run things when it is the women who usually benefit the most.

Interesting that you feel the need to create the dominance.....my wife doesn't feel it.

I can tell you that she was a career person long before I met her....she is a stay-at-home mom because she chooses. And when it comes time to make important decisions, we do it as one.

We don't see our roles as dominant....

mmaddog
*******

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 05:21 PM
Likewise, when does calling Christians ignorant actually start to be the truth?

Ahhh, now you've crossed the threshhold from loyal opposition to shit stained asshole...congratulations prick.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 05:22 PM
why did you get to see the movie already?

Doesn't it come out next weekend?

Have you read the books? If not, you should- they're awesome!

Yep, read the first. I will read the second soon.

I saw it last night at the screening. Awesome movie.

Mosbonian
12-02-2007, 05:22 PM
Well thre again that is myth. I truly belive history was revised to portray male dominance.

Aside from all the daVinci code bs there is actual scripture of Mary Magdeline intenionally left out of the Bible.

What myth? What male dominance?

I guess I am missing it.

mmaddog
*******

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 05:23 PM
Ahhh, now you've crossed the threshhold from loyal opposition to shit stained asshole...congratulations prick.

I asked a question. I didn't call them ignorant. I asked a question.

Thank you, for your ad hominem though. Very christian like.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 05:23 PM
Interesting that you feel the need to create the dominance.....my wife doesn't feel it.

I can tell you that she was a career person long before I met her....she is a stay-at-home mom because she chooses. And when it comes time to make important decisions, we do it as one.

We don't see our roles as dominant....

mmaddog
*******


I never created dominance. I simply stated while you feel you are the spirtual leader she is the reason you lead.

There is nothing wrong with that. And in fact it is a very dominant yet submissive role.

Nothing is without opposite. You obviously understand this. Please understand that I do as well.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 05:24 PM
I think not....but if that is the way you would like to interpret it that is fine.

mmaddog
*******

How so?

Mosbonian
12-02-2007, 05:26 PM
How so?

Have you read any of my posts?

The last i checked God created woman as a mate...not to walk behind him or in front of him. But to walk beside him.

mmaddog
*******

Easy 6
12-02-2007, 05:28 PM
I asked a question. I didn't call them ignorant. I asked a question.

Thank you, for your ad hominem though. Very christian like.

Dont try to pussy your way out of it, you know exactly what you were implying there.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 05:28 PM
What myth? What male dominance?

I guess I am missing it.

mmaddog
*******

Why the need to resist portraying Mary Magdeline in her true role? Why the need to create a story that she was a prostitue pittied by Jesus and not his companion and one of his followers?

Why did Peter feel the need to question the love Jesus had for Mary in comparison to his other disciples?


This is not exclusive to Christianity by any means. Look at modern day Islam. They stone women for getting gang raped.

There has been a concerted effort by the church (catholic if you will) to assert it's male dominance and keep women as a lesser person.

We all know this or should by now.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 05:29 PM
Have you read any of my posts?

The last i checked God created woman as a mate...not to walk behind him or in front of him. But to walk beside him.

mmaddog
*******

He is referring to the whole assumption man was created before woman.

Or the fact that God is often references as "he" is one I would toss in.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 05:32 PM
Have you read any of my posts?

The last i checked God created woman as a mate...not to walk behind him or in front of him. But to walk beside him.

mmaddog
*******

Yep, and that explains a lot about how there weren't ANY female disciples, can't be in the clergy (Catholic, at least) and on and on. It's paternal to the nth degree.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 05:34 PM
Dont try to pussy your way out of it, you know exactly what you were implying there.

Nope. Merely a question.

Baby Lee
12-02-2007, 06:08 PM
These books don't even take place on this world. It's a FICTIONAL world. In this fictional world, there is one religious group who is following a false god and doing bad things in his name. NOWHERE in the books does it ever say anything against Christians, Catholics, Jewish, Buddhists or any other religion known on this planet. In the books, "the church" doesn't ever practice any similarities to any church I know of. It's a fake, Fictional, story meant to entertain.

This whole argument is ridiculous... is all I'm saying. It's not validated by the story- at least not the story I read. If someone on here can point out a passage in the books that specifically, or even "between the lines", says something against Christians or whoever is mad at these books, please, PLEASE, post it here so I can see it.
"The Christian religion is a very powerful and convincing mistake, thatís all.Ē

angel
12-02-2007, 06:10 PM
"The Christian religion is a very powerful and convincing mistake, thatís all.Ē

where is that- which book? Maybe it's been too long since I've read them...

Baby Lee
12-02-2007, 06:12 PM
where is that- which book? Maybe it's been too long since I've read them...
From what I can tell, it's from the second book. It's a quote from the character of the ex-nun who left the ministry to pursue sex and science.

And Pullman is clear in his intent to refute Christianity in his efforts. It's a reaction to his distaste over Christian imagery in C.S. Lewis' works.

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 06:19 PM
From what I can tell, it's from the second book. It's a quote from the character of the ex-nun who left the ministry to pursue sex and science.

And Pullman is clear in his intent to refute Christianity in his efforts. It's a reaction to his distaste over Christian imagery in C.S. Lewis' works.

Just a question, is it wrong to question the Church or to push the viewpoint of questioning the Church?

angel
12-02-2007, 06:20 PM
From what I can tell, it's from the second book. It's a quote from the character of the ex-nun who left the ministry to pursue sex and science.

And Pullman is clear in his intent to refute Christianity in his efforts. It's a reaction to his distaste over Christian imagery in C.S. Lewis' works.


well, I stand corrected

I will go back and read the books this week. I obviously have a bad memory about them.

I do apologize for my previous rants. I'm sorry that you feel offended, and I will take my business elsewhere- continue with your "discussion".

Baby Lee
12-02-2007, 06:20 PM
Just a question, is it wrong to question the Church or to push the viewpoint of questioning the Church?
Do what you like.

Baby Lee
12-02-2007, 06:23 PM
well, I stand corrected

I will go back and read the books this week. I obviously have a bad memory about them.

I do apologize for my previous rants. I'm sorry that you feel offended, and I will take my business elsewhere- continue with your "discussion".
I am not offended, just clarifying the facts.

What most probably don't know is I come from a background that largely re-envisioned Christianity pretty recently, and has even more recently transformed itself into a church that literally has no central beliefs.

I was much more confortable in the former iteration, and as such can sympathize with the questioning of established religions as they've [d]evolved over the years. The re-envisioning began with a man praying regarding which Church to join and received the answer 'none of them.'

angel
12-02-2007, 06:25 PM
I am not offended, just clarifying the facts.

What most probably don't know is I come from a background that largely re-envisioned Christianity pretty recently, and has even more recently transformed itself into a church that literally has no central beliefs.


Well, as I said before- I'm going to go and re-read the books, and then I'll go see the movie, and then I'll have a better basis for my end of the discussion. Because, as it seems, right now, I'm remembering things incorrectly. So, I'm going to withdraw myself for the time being from this thread... if I can help it, that is.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 06:44 PM
I am not offended, just clarifying the facts.

What most probably don't know is I come from a background that largely re-envisioned Christianity pretty recently, and has even more recently transformed itself into a church that literally has no central beliefs.

I was much more confortable in the former iteration, and as such can sympathize with the questioning of established religions as they've [d]evolved over the years. The re-envisioning began with a man praying regarding which Church to join and received the answer 'none of them.'

and I believe that is the correct answer. None of them. The "church" is an invention of man used to control the masses and attain extreme levels of power.

The mere act of inventing\stealing holidays for the sole purpose of slapping the Pagans in the face to get them to join Christianity speaks of the ills that the "church" has caused the Christian religion.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 06:51 PM
btw Harry Potter is on ABC Family channel!!

:)

Groves
12-02-2007, 06:54 PM
The book of Genisis did have all of the steps of evolution in the correct order, though.

If I'm reading it rightly, the fifth day has God creating both creatures in the sea and birds of the air. He doesn't create land animals until day 6.

I'm not up to speed on current evolutionary thinking, do they have birds coming before land animals?

petegz28
12-02-2007, 06:57 PM
If I'm reading it rightly, the fifth day has God creating both creatures in the sea and birds of the air. He doesn't create land animals until day 6.

I'm not up to speed on current evolutionary thinking, do they have birds coming before land animals?


As I understand it no. Birds evolved from dinosaurs and were not present prior to the dinosaurs.

Groves
12-02-2007, 07:07 PM
As I understand it no. Birds evolved from dinosaurs and were not present prior to the dinosaurs.

That's what I thought, too.

That pretty much rules out some sort of evolutionary metaphor from Genesis. I could be wrong, of course. If only someone with true authority on these matters could just tell us.

Pitt Gorilla
12-02-2007, 07:57 PM
God's message is so strong evil is turning to alternative mediums to try to pull people away from jesus.Wow, what?

irishjayhawk
12-02-2007, 08:02 PM
btw Harry Potter is on ABC Family channel!!

:)


POA is heads and shoulders above the rest of the movies. But still, it was upstaged by Golden Compass in terms of book to movie.

petegz28
12-02-2007, 08:08 PM
POA is heads and shoulders above the rest of the movies. But still, it was upstaged by Golden Compass in terms of book to movie.

Yes PoA is the best. But SS is still my favorite simply cause it was the first. And I thought in terms of casting they did an excellent job with Potter. Though I don't care much for the new Dumbledore. Well I think he fits Dumbledore now that we know Dumbledore was gay. I also thought as far as book to movie goes that SS was pretty good too cause the book was still pretty short.

I have not read the Golden Compas book.

Deberg_1990
12-04-2007, 07:39 PM
Judge for yourself.

The opening five minutes are online:

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/thegoldencompass.html?showVideo=1

petegz28
12-04-2007, 08:05 PM
Judge for yourself.

The opening five minutes are online:

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/thegoldencompass.html?showVideo=1


EGADS!.....curses and witches!!!!

Mr. Kotter
12-17-2007, 07:51 AM
ROFL

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/12/16/boxoffice.ap/index.html

The previous No. 1 movie, New Line Cinema's fantasy "The Golden Compass," nose-dived in its second weekend, coming in third with $9 million, down a dismal 65 percent from its less-than-expected $25.8 million debut a week earlier.

"The Golden Compass," which cost $180 million to produce, has done $90 million so far overseas but has proven a dud domestically with just $41 million.


LMAO

ChiefsLV
12-17-2007, 10:37 PM
Man it looks like this thread turned into something meant for the DC/Holy Land forum. I liked the movie. The Bear fight was pretty awesome.

KcMizzou
12-17-2007, 10:41 PM
Man it looks like this thread turned into something meant for the DC/Holy Land forum. I liked the movie. The Bear fight was pretty awesome.That's really all I care about. Will I be entertained?

I don't give a shit about the religion thing. If a movie influences you one way or the other, you didn't have much faith to begin with.

Nightwish
12-17-2007, 11:08 PM
Most folks who have problems with it, do so because the books ere written by a very staunch Atheist, I haven't read them and I don't really care, is it good entertainment? That's what movies should be for pete's sake - I love Fantasy type movies!
I haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if I'm repeating something others have already said. But, technically speaking, Pullman isn't an atheist, he's a pantheist. In non-philosophical circles, he has alternately described himself as an atheist and as an agnostic, mainly because those crowds wouldn't understand what he was talking about if he said he was a pantheist. Pantheists believe that there is a spiritual higher power, but that it isn't separable from the Creation, essentially believing that Creation is the physical form of the Creator. Most pantheists tend to be very opposed to dogmatic views of God, particularly due to the human tendency to maim, kill and destroy in furtherance of their particular dogmatic version of God. While all dogmatists (and non-dogmatists, for that matter) are basically guessing at God, no dogmatist actually believes they are guessing, most of them truly believe that they know that their version is accurate to the exclusion of all others, and many are willing to kill to make that point. In Pullman's books, he uses the term "God" as an allegory for dogmatism, not for the overriding spiritual and creative force in which he believes. He speaks in some interviews about how his books are "about killing God," but what he's talking about is not the actual destruction of a deity, but rather the eroding of dogma. And contrary to what many Christians, especially fundies, are saying, he doesn't single out Christianity to the exclusion of all other faiths. In fact, he never mentions it. But it is easy to make the leap to assume that Christianity may be his model of evil dogmatic religions, because the evils he portrays in his books, and in the movie, are things that the Christian church is well-known to have done. But so have others.

All in all, I think his books serve a valuable purpose, to keep dogmatism in check. And I am in full agreement with the Archbishop of Canterbury when he says he believes that Pullman's books should be taught alongside C.S. Lewis in classrooms, especially where Lewis is taught as religious allegory.