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gblowfish
12-16-2007, 04:45 PM
Merry Frickin' Christmas....

1) Announced attendance over 70,000. Actual attendance probably 50,000. Upstairs about half full.

2) Didn't see many guys wearing bags over their heads, but did see two great signs. One was three guys way upstairs holding 3 neon green signs that said...

GET......OVER......IT

Very nice.

Second one was with about 2 minutes left in the game under the big scoreboard, some guys unfurled a big long white sheet that covered from goalpost to goalpost that said (not sure if this is exact...)

GET RID OF CARL AND SEND HERM WITH HIM

3) I'm starting to fear Brodie Croyle is the next Todd Sackledge. Two TDs, but two costly picks in the second half. I can see King Carl (if he's still here) bringing in yet another journeyman QB like a Krieg, or DeBerg or Bono...to challenge Brodie next year. I think Huard is toast. I'm not sold on Brodie. He has yet to win a start. Sometimes your QB has to will the team to victory. Not sure if Brodie has the chops to do that.

4) If there is a silver lining, we found out Kolby Smith can play. Dude is every bit as good as Michael Bennett. Wonder if he can return kicks?

5) When was the last time the Chiefs didn't have a kicker and a kick returner? We have to find a kicking solution for the long term, and we have to find a guy who can be a threat on kickoff returns. How does Eddie Drummond cash his paycheck with a straight face?

6) Chris Terry is now free to start his career as a Sears Sales Associate, selling riding mowers or Kenmore Washers. Best of luck to him in his retail career. I told him three weeks ago the only way he'd see the Raiders next year at Arrowhead was to buy a ticket. I was right. Good Riddance.

7) Who the hell is Dick Curl and why do we need him around? He's just a grumpy old man who annoys our QBs, as far as I can tell....

8) I think Solari and Gunther could both be gone at the end of the year. Neither has done an acceptable job this year.

9) What happened to Turk and Tank this year? They have been inconsequential as draft picks. Boone and Edwards play more than they do, and today Jimmy Wilkerson outplayed both of them. There goes another poor 2 and 3 pick. We need impact players with those picks. Chiefs just can't get value for high picks. Junior Siavii, Eddie Freeman, Mike Cloud, etc etc etc....

10) Selected Chiefs Merchandise 50% off next weekend at the Chiefs Pavillion. I'm sure they'll have people camping out for that next weekend. Buy a lot of crap....Carl is counting on you.

No reason to screw up our draft at this point. Play all rookies. Run the ball.
Trade Tony G to give him a chance to win a SB in the few years he has left.

Think the Jets fans will get a big kick out of beating Herm last game of the season? I think they'll have a big day at home and try to embarrass Herm... like that's something new this year.

BigMeatballDave
12-16-2007, 04:51 PM
3) I'm starting to fear Brodie Croyle is the next Todd Sackledge. Two TDs, but two costly picks in the second half. I can see King Carl (if he's still here) bringing in yet another journeyman QB like a Krieg, or DeBerg or Bono...to challenge Brodie next year. I think Huard is toast. I'm not sold on Brodie. He has yet to win a start. Sometimes your QB has to will the team to victory. Not sure if Brodie has the chops to do that.
I created a thread for stupid comments like this.
:rolleyes: :shake:

L.A. Chieffan
12-16-2007, 04:51 PM
Mike Cloud was pimp

Deberg_1990
12-16-2007, 04:52 PM
50,000? Wow, better than i expected.

Its too early to bash Croyle.

MadMax
12-16-2007, 04:53 PM
Merry Frickin' Christmas....

1) Announced attendance over 70,000. Actual attendance probably 50,000. Upstairs about half full.

2) Didn't see many guys wearing bags over their heads, but did see two great signs. One was three guys way upstairs holding 3 neon green signs that said...

GET......OVER......IT

Very nice.

Second one was with about 2 minutes left in the game under the big scoreboard, some guys unfurled a big long white sheet that covered from goalpost to goalpost that said (not sure if this is exact...)

GET RID OF CARL AND SEND HERM WITH HIM

3) I'm starting to fear Brodie Croyle is the next Todd Sackledge. Two TDs, but two costly picks in the second half. I can see King Carl (if he's still here) bringing in yet another journeyman QB like a Krieg, or DeBerg or Bono...to challenge Brodie next year. I think Huard is toast. I'm not sold on Brodie. He has yet to win a start. Sometimes your QB has to will the team to victory. Not sure if Brodie has the chops to do that.

4) If there is a silver lining, we found out Kolby Smith can play. Dude is every bit as good as Michael Bennett. Wonder if he can return kicks?

5) When was the last time the Chiefs didn't have a kicker and a kick returner? We have to find a kicking solution for the long term, and we have to find a guy who can be a threat on kickoff returns. How does Eddie Drummond cash his paycheck with a straight face?

6) Chris Terry is now free to start his career as a Sears Sales Associate, selling riding mowers or Kenmore Washers. Best of luck to him in his retail career. I told him three weeks ago the only way he'd see the Raiders next year at Arrowhead was to buy a ticket. I was right. Good Riddance.

7) Who the hell is Dick Curl and why do we need him around? He's just a grumpy old man who annoys our QBs, as far as I can tell....

8) I think Solari and Gunther could both be gone at the end of the year. Neither has done an acceptable job this year.

9) What happened to Turk and Tank this year? They have been inconsequential as draft picks. Boone and Edwards play more than they do, and today Jimmy Wilkerson outplayed both of them. There goes another poor 2 and 3 pick. We need impact players with those picks. Chiefs just can't get value for high picks. Junior Siavii, Eddie Freeman, Mike Cloud, etc etc etc....

10) Selected Chiefs Merchandise 50% off next weekend at the Chiefs Pavillion. I'm sure they'll have people camping out for that next weekend. Buy a lot of crap....Carl is counting on you.

No reason to screw up our draft at this point. Play all rookies. Run the ball.
Trade Tony G to give him a chance to win a SB in the few years he has left.

Think the Jets fans will get a big kick out of beating Herm last game of the season? I think they'll have a big day at home and try to embarrass Herm... like that's something new this year.



My God dude this team couldn't win with ANY hall of fame QB!!!

Halfcan
12-16-2007, 04:55 PM
#1 I would have guessed 40 k at the most.

Halfcan
12-16-2007, 04:56 PM
#3 Yep- He just does not seem to get upset that his receivers are dropping balls. Marino would have grabbed the guy by the face mask and rubbed hi nose in the football like a dog that shit in the house.

Get some balls Brodie.

Halfcan
12-16-2007, 04:57 PM
#4 Does anyone want LJ and his 2 yard fall down runs back??

Deberg_1990
12-16-2007, 04:59 PM
#3 Yep- He just does not seem to get upset that his receivers are dropping balls. Marino would have grabbed the guy by the face mask and rubbed hi nose in the football like a dog that shit in the house.

Get some balls Brodie.

Yes, im sure Marino was doing that in his 4th NFL start.

LMAO

MadMax
12-16-2007, 05:02 PM
#3 Yep- He just does not seem to get upset that his receivers are dropping balls. Marino would have grabbed the guy by the face mask and rubbed hi nose in the football like a dog that shit in the house.

Get some balls Brodie.


So we need a Prick at QB?? :shrug:

the Talking Can
12-16-2007, 05:03 PM
#3 Yep- He just does not seem to get upset that his receivers are dropping balls. Marino would have grabbed the guy by the face mask and rubbed hi nose in the football like a dog that shit in the house.

Get some balls Brodie.

ah, i get it....sarcasm....I was worried for a moment, had never encountered something that freakishly stupid...

gblowfish
12-16-2007, 05:04 PM
As far as Brodie goes, you've committed to him this year, so I think you have to go into next year with him as your starter. He'll either hack it, or get hurt, as his history has yet to show he can get through a season healthy. We're not going anywhere next year either, so this year load up on offensive linemen and cornerbacks, see if he can play next year, and if he can't draft a QB for 2009 with our sure to be high first round pick after the 2008 season.

Cochise
12-16-2007, 05:04 PM
I think probably a lot of the people who were there don't normally go but got tickets that were given away.

Halfcan
12-16-2007, 05:04 PM
So we need a Prick at QB?? :shrug:

Marino set records with below average receivers, no running game, and a shitty O line.

Sound familar. It was the fire inside that made him great.

Brodie is as quiet as a mouse.

Bob Dole
12-16-2007, 05:06 PM
50,000? Wow, better than i expected.



Tickets selling on the secondary market for under $5 do wonders for attendance.

Bob Dole
12-16-2007, 05:07 PM
Brodie is as quiet as a mouse.

Again. Comments from the players in the huddle don't seem to back up your statement.

Halfcan
12-16-2007, 05:07 PM
Yes, im sure Marino was doing that in his 4th NFL start.

LMAO

Big Ben did it, Brady, Brett, Manning. I guess what I am saying is that Brodie has not made this HIS team.

I mean you just choke the game away again-throw your helmet or something-don't just sit down and hide.

Deberg_1990
12-16-2007, 05:08 PM
As far as Brodie goes, you've committed to him this year, so I think you have to go into next year with him as your starter. He'll either hack it, or get hurt, as his history has yet to show he can get through a season healthy. We're not going anywhere next year either, so this year load up on offensive linemen and cornerbacks, see if he can play next year, and if he can't draft a QB for 2009 with our sure to be high first round pick after the 2008 season.

Im cool with that. Will Carl be?

keg in kc
12-16-2007, 05:12 PM
#11: I'm completely apathetic about the Chiefs now.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 05:13 PM
Marino set records with below average receivers, no running game, and a shitty O line.

Sound familar. It was the fire inside that made him great.

Brodie is as quiet as a mouse.

LMAO

You are wrong

He had Mark Clayton and Mark Duper as his WR's. Dwight Stepheson is a HOF Center and the rest of their O-Line was very solid

He had zero running game and their D wasn't very good that is why they never won

MadMax
12-16-2007, 05:15 PM
Marino set records with below average receivers, no running game, and a shitty O line.

Sound familar. It was the fire inside that made him great.

Brodie is as quiet as a mouse.


And those records were broken by a far better QB that acually won something? lol i'm just here to spin my wheels i'm not upset at all that we lost. I'm just saying Brodie has looked very good at times and not so good at others, but he has started ONLY 4 freakin games. This team needs a lot of changes and I pray they come from top to bottom. Just maybe if Croyle has decent coaches " with a winning attitude " and some better players around him he will show some fire. IMHO he is on track to be a decent QB in the NFL.

Halfcan
12-16-2007, 05:16 PM
LMAO

You are wrong

He had Mark Clayton and Mark Duper as his WR's. Dwight Stepheson is a HOF Center and the rest of their O-Line was very solid

He had zero running game and their D wasn't very good that is why they never won

The Marks brothers developed into good receivers-but how many balls hit off their hands the first few years. I remember Marino Yelling his ass off at them.

The Chiefs could use someone with some fire on that team right now.

ClevelandBronco
12-16-2007, 05:16 PM
Trade Tony G to give him a chance to win a SB in the few years he has left.

That could be a very good move.

Halfcan
12-16-2007, 05:17 PM
And those records were broken by a far better QB that acually won something? lol i'm just here to spin my wheels i'm not upset at all that we lost. I'm just saying Brodie has looked very good at times and not so good at others, but he has started ONLY 4 freakin games. This team needs a lot of changes and I pray they come from top to bottom. Just maybe if Croyle has decent coaches " with a winning attitude " and some better players around him he will show some fire. IMHO he is on track to be a decent QB in the NFL.

People dogged on TRINT after one game-that is KC-we are tired of it.

Skip Towne
12-16-2007, 05:19 PM
How does Eddie Drummond cash his paycheck with a straight face?


He uses direct deposit.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 05:21 PM
The Marks brothers developed into good receivers-but how many balls hit off their hands the first few years. I remember Marino Yelling his ass off at them.

The Chiefs could use someone with some fire on that team right now.

In Dan's second season in 84 they both had 70 + catches and over 1300 yds in receiving. They didn't drop shit. Clayton had 18 TD's and Duper 8.

Also Dan hardly ever got sacked and that was the combination of having a very good O-Line and a super quick release.

Dan Marino was a special one of a kind Qb. I doubt we will see one like him again.

Count Alex's Losses
12-16-2007, 06:37 PM
Tony Gonzalez is un-tradeable, George. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

Coach
12-16-2007, 06:40 PM
As far as Brodie goes, you've committed to him this year, so I think you have to go into next year with him as your starter. He'll either hack it, or get hurt, as his history has yet to show he can get through a season healthy. We're not going anywhere next year either, so this year load up on offensive linemen and cornerbacks, see if he can play next year, and if he can't draft a QB for 2009 with our sure to be high first round pick after the 2008 season.

That's why the reason I said early during the season that he should be starting right out of the bat. You won't know what kind of QB's you will have until at least one to two full seasons.

Even that, Croyle performed well, despite the setbacks. There were many times that he was in the pocket where all hell was breaking lose, and he didn't pull a fetal position.

So to be fair with him, how about we give him some linemen who can block, and some receivers who will be willing to catch the ball.

Or that fact, how about some DB's who will cover? Ty Law and Pat Surtain are becoming worse than Burntee and Crispy, shall we say?

RedDread
12-16-2007, 06:47 PM
I really could give less than a shit how the Chiefs are doing when I decide to buy gear. The only things that matter to me are how much it costs and how it looks. If we suck dog-shit for the next 3-5 years it doesn't matter cause when I eventually DO wear it, I'll have bought it for much cheaper than if the team was kicking ass.

MadMax
12-16-2007, 06:49 PM
I really could give less than a shit how the Chiefs are doing when I decide to buy gear. The only things that matter to me are how much it costs and how it looks. If we suck dog-shit for the next 3-5 years it doesn't matter cause when I eventually DO wear it, I'll have bought it for much cheaper than if the team was kicking ass.



Umm ok drive on Sarge drive on :rolleyes:

chop
12-16-2007, 06:50 PM
Already getting on Brodie....it's his 4th ever start. Not too many players come in and play lights out right away.

FYI, Tony Romo stats today 13/36 214 yards 0 td's and 3 ints. I'm assuming you would get rid of him now too if you were a Dallas fan.

suds79
12-16-2007, 06:51 PM
Already getting on Brodie....it's his 4th ever start. Not too many players come in and play lights out right away.

FYI, Tony Romo stats today 13/36 214 yards 0 td's and 3 ints. I'm assuming you would get rid of him now too if you were a Dallas fan.

Either that or you would start threads talking about how Tony Romo is not even the best QB on the team... And it's not even close. :p

MadMax
12-16-2007, 06:53 PM
Already getting on Brodie....it's his 4th ever start. Not too many players come in and play lights out right away.

FYI, Tony Romo stats today 13/36 214 yards 0 td's and 3 ints. I'm assuming you would get rid of him now too if you were a Dallas fan.


The ones who don't like him will never listen :rolleyes: He should never throw a pick and should lead this pathetic team to victory no matter what.

Easy 6
12-16-2007, 06:54 PM
I was very disappointed in Tank today, i highlighted him until the 3rd & watched him lose 2 of every 3 battles, often being BLOWN completely off the ball.

If you cant make a play, ATLEAST hold your ground...wheres all of that strength & supposed nasty attitude??? He's a relatively short, squatty DT, he should be MUCH better at using that leverage than he is.

The only head that got busted was his.

Count Alex's Losses
12-16-2007, 06:56 PM
I was very disappointed in Tank today, i highlighted him until the 3rd & watched him lose 2 of every 3 battles, often being BLOWN completely off the ball.

If you cant make a play, ATLEAST hold your ground...wheres all of that strength & supposed nasty attitude??? He's a relatively short, squatty DT, he should be MUCH better at using that leverage than he is.

The only head that got busted was his.

It's the same crap we saw in training camp. He was getting his butt handed to him by Chris Bober quite often.

Occasionally he penetrates and gets pressure, but not often.

Silock
12-16-2007, 07:02 PM
9) What happened to Turk and Tank this year? They have been inconsequential as draft picks. Boone and Edwards play more than they do, and today Jimmy Wilkerson outplayed both of them. There goes another poor 2 and 3 pick. We need impact players with those picks. Chiefs just can't get value for high picks. Junior Siavii, Eddie Freeman, Mike Cloud, etc etc etc....

What happened is that they're ROOKIES. Geezus, dude... I understand being frustrated, but you have to have some semblance of patience.

Count Alex's Losses
12-16-2007, 07:05 PM
What happened is that they're ROOKIES. Geezus, dude... I understand being frustrated, but you have to have some semblance of patience.

Patience is one thing, but it would be nice if they were showing flashes at least. You know, like Bowe?

I compare Turk and Tank to a guy like Dwayne Jarrett - all rookies who have shown almost NOTHING this year.

Silock
12-16-2007, 07:06 PM
Patience is one thing, but it would be nice if they were showing flashes at least. You know, like Bowe?

I compare Turk and Tank to a guy like Dwayne Jarrett - all rookies who have shown almost NOTHING this year.

It happens. They may be busts. They may be great. In all likelihood, they'll just turn out to be serviceable guys, like most picks.

Coogs
12-16-2007, 07:07 PM
I'm not sure if this is correct or not, but it seemed to me that the offense in the first half had 2 backs on the field most of the time, then in the 2nd half we were in the 1 back set more. If so, could this be why the offense was more effective in the first half?

Count Alex's Losses
12-16-2007, 07:10 PM
It happens. They may be busts. They may be great. In all likelihood, they'll just turn out to be serviceable guys, like most picks.

Which is the whole problem with the Chiefs. You draft a guy in the 2nd round expecting him to start for years. We draft Siavii and Kris Wilson...

Mecca
12-16-2007, 07:13 PM
This is what I'll say about Brodie Croyle, I have no issue with starting him next year..but at the same time if you and you scouts rate one of the QB's in the draft as a franchise guy better than Croyle by a lot then you don't pass on that. The franchise QB is what makes the elite teams go in this league...

Croyle is injury prone...and hey if you got 2 QB's someone will wanna trade, there's worse problems to have.

Deberg_1990
12-16-2007, 07:17 PM
This is what I'll say about Brodie Croyle, I have no issue with starting him next year..but at the same time if you and you scouts rate one of the QB's in the draft as a franchise guy better than Croyle by a lot then you don't pass on that. The franchise QB is what makes the elite teams go in this league...

Croyle is injury prone...and hey if you got 2 QB's someone will wanna trade, there's worse problems to have.


Agreed,

But are this years QB's the next Carson Palmer or David Carr??

HemiEd
12-16-2007, 07:34 PM
That could be a very good move.
It would take getting a new GM for that to happen IMO.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 07:37 PM
This is what I'll say about Brodie Croyle, I have no issue with starting him next year..but at the same time if you and you scouts rate one of the QB's in the draft as a franchise guy better than Croyle by a lot then you don't pass on that. The franchise QB is what makes the elite teams go in this league...

Croyle is injury prone...and hey if you got 2 QB's someone will wanna trade, there's worse problems to have.

Which of the QB's that are coming out are "franchise" type QB's and where are they slated to be drafted?

Mecca
12-16-2007, 07:42 PM
Well it seems everyone thinks Matt Ryan can be that guy........he may be a top 5 pick..Brohms a top 10 pick after that they start filtering in with Woodson and Brennan and the like.

Coach
12-16-2007, 07:43 PM
Well it seems everyone thinks Matt Ryan can be that guy........he may be a top 5 pick..Brohms a top 10 pick after that they start filtering in with Woodson and Brennan and the like.

Which is the reason none of them are, IMHO, a "Franchise QB"

I'm not completely sold on Matt Ryan. We discussed about this, and came to a agreement that he just doesn't have "it"

shaneo69
12-16-2007, 07:44 PM
There are no QB's that should be drafted in the top 10.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 07:44 PM
I probably didn't see enough of Matt Ryan to fully judge him, and the 1 game I watched him play a lot was probably his worst game.....

I think what people see in Ryan is he's smart and has command so they think he can do the things Manning and Brady do.....and he does have all the physical tools.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 07:45 PM
Well it seems everyone thinks Matt Ryan can be that guy........he may be a top 5 pick..Brohms a top 10 pick after that they start filtering in with Woodson and Brennan and the like.

Thanks. I have been looking at some early mock drafts and it looks like the Falcons would probably be the only team above KC to take a QB so they would take Ryan.

Most of the mock drafts have the Chiefs taking either Ryan Clady or Sam Baker.

Do you like either of those choices?

I bet you like Baker since he is a USC guy. :)

Mecca
12-16-2007, 07:46 PM
There are no QB's that should be drafted in the top 10.

You must hardly ever think there are top 10 QB's then because Matt Ryan would go in the top 10 every year......he's got every single physical tool the NFL looks for.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 07:47 PM
Thanks. I have been looking at some early mock drafts and it looks like the Falcons would probably be the only team above KC to take a QB so they would take Ryan.

Most of the mock drafts have the Chiefs taking either Ryan Clady or Sam Baker.

Do you like either of those choices?

I bet you like Baker since he is a USC guy. :)

Sam Baker is maxed out......he's not gonna get any better than he is now. He isn't isn't that strong at the point of attack, he's a better pass blocker than run blocker. His whole game is finesse I could see him getting absolutely mauled by some NFL guys....

Count Alex's Losses
12-16-2007, 07:48 PM
Sam Baker is maxed out......he's not gonna get any better than he is now. He isn't isn't that strong at the point of attack, he's a better pass blocker than run blocker. His whole game is finesse I could see him getting absolutely mauled by some NFL guys....

He looks way too small. Short arms, too.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 07:49 PM
Thanks. I have been looking at some early mock drafts and it looks like the Falcons would probably be the only team above KC to take a QB so they would take Ryan.

Most of the mock drafts have the Chiefs taking either Ryan Clady or Sam Baker.

Do you like either of those choices?

I bet you like Baker since he is a USC guy. :)

No way either of those 2 are worth the likely Top 5 pick we'll have, and I guarantee Mecca would agree.

I'd say they both are 15-25 type guys.

Thig Lyfe
12-16-2007, 07:49 PM
My 3 things

1) The offense didn't look terrible

2) I slept through a lot of it (but not the touchdowns)

3) Yay draft pick!

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 07:51 PM
Sam Baker is maxed out......he's not gonna get any better than he is now. He isn't isn't that strong at the point of attack, he's a better pass blocker than run blocker. His whole game is finesse I could see him getting absolutely mauled by some NFL guys....

Thanks.

An interesting question would be if Carl is still here would he draft a USC guy?

Mecca
12-16-2007, 07:51 PM
No way either of those 2 are worth the likely Top 5 pick we'll have, and I guarantee Mecca would agree.

I'd say they both are 15-25 type guys.

Look at this......this guy knows the Chiefs way to well...

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 07:52 PM
No way either of those 2 are worth the likely Top 5 pick we'll have, and I guarantee Mecca would agree.

I'd say they both are 15-25 type guys.

Alot of the mock drafts that I have looked at have Clady in the Top 10.

Of course all of that could change during the combine

Coach
12-16-2007, 07:53 PM
Look at this......this guy knows the Chiefs way to well...

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

Apparently, he doesn't know shit, or so it seems.

Ellis > Clady in terms of best player available.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 07:53 PM
Thanks.

An interesting question would be if Carl is still here would he draft a USC guy?

LOL......that's funny actually.

You know what I find really shitty......in the years that Miami and USC have been NFL factories producing tons of picks and pro bowlers...we drafted exactly none.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 07:54 PM
Apparently, he doesn't know shit, or so it seems.

Ellis > Clady in terms of best player available.

He knows the Chiefs better than we think he does.....because that is something this team would do and has always done.....he's giving them the need pick over the best player pick.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 07:55 PM
Look at this......this guy knows the Chiefs way to well...

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html


Dear God.

What a huge reach. Ellis, Laurinaitis, or either of the Jenkins would be better picks at that point.

Someone could even make a case, albeit a questionable one, about Desean Jackson.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 07:56 PM
LOL......that's funny actually.

You know what I find really shitty......in the years that Miami and USC have been NFL factories producing tons of picks and pro bowlers...we drafted exactly none.

Yep and I don't think Carl has ever drafted a USC guy.

We did draft Marcus Maxey and he was from Miami. That didn't pan out though.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 07:56 PM
Alot of the mock drafts that I have looked at have Clady in the Top 10.

Of course all of that could change during the combine

Because they know we need OL help and know how Carl operates.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 07:56 PM
Dear God.

What a huge reach. Ellis, Laurinaitis, or either of the Jenkins would be better picks at that point.

Someone could even make a case, albeit a questionalbe one, about Desean Jackson.

Here's the sad part......I could see that legit happening, it's the nature of our franchise.

And then there will be several people here cheering saying it's a great pick.

shaneo69
12-16-2007, 07:58 PM
You must hardly ever think there are top 10 QB's then because Matt Ryan would go in the top 10 every year......he's got every single physical tool the NFL looks for.

Who was the last top-10 QB that deserved to be top-10?

Ryan reminds me of Matt Schaub, which I guess is okay. But Rosenfels is probably the Texans' best QB.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 07:59 PM
Because they know we need OL help and know how Carl operates.

Probably. I have seen a few that have us picking Long but I don't think he falls that far

stonedstooge
12-16-2007, 07:59 PM
All the weeks about complaining that Brodie wasn't getting to play and now you want him thrown in the trash? And what about being so critical of Huard. My God if it was Manning back there, he would have been taking the same beatings. The guy isn't quick footed but he took more hits than Ali used to dish out in a 15 round fight. His bruises probably won't heal until next years training camp. And he never blamed anyone but himself. I thought he showed a lot of class for what he had to put up with. He may not be a great quarterback but he is a class human being

Count Alex's Losses
12-16-2007, 08:00 PM
If we draft Clady with Ellis on the board....ugh

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:01 PM
Who was the last top-10 QB that deserved to be top-10?

Ryan reminds me of Matt Schaub, which I guess is okay. But Rosenfels is probably the Texans' best QB.

He's got MUCH better physical tools than Schaub does. His arm is a ton better, if he really does remind you of him that's probably a good sign because all of his natural talent is better.......so he could be like Matt Schaub times 10...and Schaub really isn't that bad.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 08:01 PM
What about Michael Oher?

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 08:01 PM
Who was the last top-10 QB that deserved to be top-10?

Carson Palmer.

And before that?

You could argue for McNabb.

Otherwise, all the way back to Peyton Manning, IMO.

shaneo69
12-16-2007, 08:02 PM
Yep and I don't think Carl has ever drafted a USC guy.


We drafted some WR named Larry _______ from USC around 1999 or so. He was a #3 WR at USC though, and was never better than a #5 for us.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 08:02 PM
What about Michael Oher?

Waiting to hear if he's going to declare.

Conflicting reports on what he may do.

Coach
12-16-2007, 08:03 PM
What about Michael Oher?

I believe he is staying in school. Won't be available until 2009 NFL Draft.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 08:03 PM
We drafted some WR named Larry _______ from USC around 1999 or so. He was a #3 WR at USC though, and was never better than a #5 for us.

Larry Parker?

Coach
12-16-2007, 08:03 PM
We drafted some WR named Larry _______ from USC around 1999 or so. He was a #3 WR at USC though, and was never better than a #5 for us.

The receiver last name Parker I believe.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 08:04 PM
Waiting to hear if he's going to declare.

Conflicting reports on what he may do.

If he does is that a good choice? Also Clady is a JR as well and he hasn't declared yet either.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:04 PM
I've read some stuff on Oher where some people think he's going to project as a guard.....

When you say deserved to be 1st round, what are your qualifications because there are some guys that would have been top 10 every single year since the draft began.

shaneo69
12-16-2007, 08:04 PM
He's got MUCH better physical tools than Schaub does. His arm is a ton better, if he really does remind you of him that's probably a good sign because all of his natural talent is better.......so he could be like Matt Schaub times 10...and Schaub really isn't that bad.

You've seen him play once, and you know he has much better physical tools than Schaub?

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 08:07 PM
I've read some stuff on Oher where some people think he's going to project as a guard.....

When you say deserved to be 1st round, what are your qualifications because there are some guys that would have been top 10 every single year since the draft began.

A guard?

I'd love to see who wrote that pearl of wisdom.

shaneo69
12-16-2007, 08:08 PM
When you say deserved to be 1st round, what are your qualifications because there are some guys that would have been top 10 every single year since the draft began.

Based on their play in the NFL, which top-10 QB's deserved to be top-10? Maybe Palmer and Eli, but have either won a playoff game? Philip Rivers? Probably not.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:08 PM
You've seen him play once, and you know he has much better physical tools than Schaub?

You have to check into scouting reports too......

Matt Schaub from the day he was in the draft to even now is considered a west coast system QB with an average to weak arm, it's why he was a 3rd round pick.

Matt Ryan on the other hand has a strong arm and can make every throw. Hell he won the VT game by scrambling one way and throwing it completely back across to the other, his arm is there. He's got size, he's got decent mobility from what I saw.

I can see why scouts love Matt Ryan every tool is there. He's like Carson Palmer in that regard...I think he could possibly be that type of player given some time.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:09 PM
Based on their play in the NFL, which top-10 QB's deserved to be top-10? Maybe Palmer and Eli, but have either won a playoff game? Philip Rivers? Probably not.

Oh that's hindsight stuff.......you can say this or say that but guys who grade out like Jamarcus Russell or Matt Ryan are always gonna go top 10, it's just how it is.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:11 PM
A guard?

I'd love to see who wrote that pearl of wisdom.

It was a bit absurd, of course I've seen stranger things happen with guys switching positions.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 08:11 PM
You have to check into scouting reports too......

Matt Schaub from the day he was in the draft to even now is considered a west coast system QB with an average to weak arm, it's why he was a 3rd round pick.

Matt Ryan on the other hand has a strong arm and can make every throw. Hell he won the VT game by scrambling one way and throwing it completely back across to the other, his arm is there. He's got size, he's got decent mobility from what I saw.

I can see why scouts love Matt Ryan every tool is there. He's like Carson Palmer in that regard...I think he could possibly be that type of player given some time.

I've heard that comparison made as well.

My only complaint is, that to take the kid Top 10, he better be more like Carson Palmer right away, not after you give him some time.

I know Palmer didn't play right away, but he easily could have.

I'm not sure Ryan could play right away.

JMO.

Count Alex's Losses
12-16-2007, 08:14 PM
I'm still struggling to figure out how Rivers went in the Top 10. I don't think his arm is any better than Schaub's. And his mobility sucks.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:15 PM
If the Chiefs took Matt Ryan I'd sit him for a year....Hopefully there'd be a new RT and RG from the draft...next year get an elite LT....and then I'd play Ryan.

I'd hope that in that year of sitting Ryan he learned a ton and also that Croyle showed enough to either be regarded is a good backup or even trade bait.

shaneo69
12-16-2007, 08:15 PM
Oh that's hindsight stuff.......you can say this or say that but guys who grade out like Jamarcus Russell or Matt Ryan are always gonna go top 10, it's just how it is.

So because the top QB is always ranked in the top 10, we should take Ryan just because he's the highest ranking QB?

HemiEd
12-16-2007, 08:15 PM
Yep and I don't think Carl has ever drafted a USC guy.

We did draft Marcus Maxey and he was from Miami. That didn't pan out though.

Don't forget Crap. No UCLA man is going to draft a Trojan.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:16 PM
I'm still struggling to figure out how Rivers went in the Top 10. I don't think his arm is any better than Schaub's. And his mobility sucks.

He was gonna drop if he hadn't gone at that pick.....he was only taken there so the Giants could make the trade for Eli.

Coach
12-16-2007, 08:16 PM
If the Chiefs took Matt Ryan I'd sit him for a year....Hopefully there'd be a new RT and RG from the draft...next year get an elite LT....and then I'd play Ryan.

I'd hope that in that year of sitting Ryan he learned a ton and also that Croyle showed enough to either be regarded is a good backup or even trade bait.

Here's a problem though. Why should Ryan have the benefit of the doubt with a new RT and RG, as well as the elite LT, while Croyle has to deal with chicken shit?

That seems hardly fair.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:17 PM
So because the top QB is always ranked in the top 10, we should take Ryan just because he's the highest ranking QB?

Oh no.......some years are awful for QB's. Remember the Tony Banks year?

Like I said I think he's similar to Palmer, if they made that pick I wouldn't be upset. I'd consider it better than reaching for an OT.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:19 PM
Here's a problem though. Why should Ryan have the benefit of the doubt with a new RT and RG, as well as the elite LT, while Croyle has to deal with chicken shit?

That seems hardly fair.

Because Matt Ryans upside is light years higher than Brodie Croyles? I wouldn't wanna throw Ryan out there right away anyway part of the reason he's so well regarded is his intelligence....he won't be that smart about the game right away.

I could be wrong though but playing Croyle that year could benefit the Chiefs in the long run.

Chiefnj2
12-16-2007, 08:19 PM
Matt Ryan on the other hand has a strong arm and can make every throw. Hell he won the VT game by scrambling one way and throwing it completely back across to the other, his arm is there. He's got size, he's got decent mobility from what I saw.

.
That was a great throw and great last 2 minutes of football. It makes you wonder if he's worth a top 10 pick when he played like Elvis Grbac the first 58 minutes of that game though.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:20 PM
That was a great throw and great last 2 minutes of football. It makes you wonder if he's worth a top 10 pick when he played like Elvis Grbac the first 58 minutes of that game though.

That was his worst game of the year, and the game I saw the most of him in, which is why I say I can't fully evaluate him. His physical tools are all there.

I'll be checking that bowl game closely though.....

shaneo69
12-16-2007, 08:24 PM
That was his worst game of the year, and the game I saw the most of him in, which is why I say I can't fully evaluate him. His physical tools are all there.

I'll be checking that bowl game closely though.....

That wasn't his worst game of the year. Did you see their game against Florida St?

Chiefnj2
12-16-2007, 08:24 PM
That was his worst game of the year, and the game I saw the most of him in, which is why I say I can't fully evaluate him. His physical tools are all there.

I'll be checking that bowl game closely though.....

He wasn't that sharp in the 2nd game either.

Coach
12-16-2007, 08:25 PM
Because Matt Ryans upside is light years higher than Brodie Croyles? I wouldn't wanna throw Ryan out there right away anyway part of the reason he's so well regarded is his intelligence....he won't be that smart about the game right away.

I could be wrong though but playing Croyle that year could benefit the Chiefs in the long run.

Well, Ryans may have a better upside, but it doesn't mean anything until he actually can do it on the NFL field.

So if he's well regarded of his intelligence, then how can he not be that smart about the game right away? You can't say smart and dumb in one sentence about a player.

I'll say this. The only way a player is going to get SMART is to PLAY. There was no way in chance that Brodie was going to learn from his mistakes by sitting on the bench. The only way Brodie will learn is to actually PLAY.

And that being said, it's still not fair to Brodie that he can't make chicken salad with chicken shit. I'd really like to see what he is REALLY capable of with an ACTUAL o-line that can block and some WR's who aren't afraid to catch the ball.

That being said, despite those who credit Solari's gameplan, I still saw no rhyme or reason to it. If Kolby Smith was running well, then why was Brodie throwing more than 40 times?

Here's the thing that bothered me. If the defensive backs would have actually covered someone, i.e. the long TD where Page got smoked, or where Surtain and Law is becoming Warfield and Bartee, part II.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:29 PM
The only thing I'm going to say is I don't really care about being fair to Brodie Croyle..or well any player on the team. I care about the team being an elite championship franchise and doing what it takes to get there...

And right now it's pretty obvious what it takes to be that is a franchise elite QB and I don't think Croyle will be that. If you do, that's fine it just means we differ. I don't think having a league average QB or a guy that just doesn't make mistakes is good enough anymore..

Like the Jags do this stuff with Garrard yea it works now but they'll never get past NE or Indy.

This is all moot anyway I don't think we'll get a chance to draft Ryan unless weird shit happens like some bizarre wins from teams or the Falcons deciding they can't take another top 5 QB this year after the Vick stuff.

HemiEd
12-16-2007, 08:29 PM
Hopefully, Drummond has already cleaned out his locker.

Coach
12-16-2007, 08:31 PM
The only thing I'm going to say is I don't really care about being fair to Brodie Croyle..or well any player on the team. I care about the team being an elite championship franchise and doing what it takes to get there...

And right now it's pretty obvious what it takes to be that is a franchise elite QB and I don't think Croyle will be that. If you do, that's fine it just means we differ. I don't think having a league average QB or a guy that just doesn't make mistakes is good enough anymore..

Like the Jags do this stuff with Garrard yea it works now but they'll never get past NE or Indy.

This is all moot anyway I don't think we'll get a chance to draft Ryan unless weird shit happens like some bizarre wins from teams or the Falcons deciding they can't take another top 5 QB this year after the Vick stuff.

I respect that the fact that we differ. A actual O-line can make a league average QB to a solid QB. Just ask Trent on how he feel behind the line of Roaf and Waters with Tait. Compare that to the Dolphin line this year.

Well, all I think is the best for the Chiefs is to build their lines. Doesn't matter if it's offensive or defensive, the lines needs to be rebuilt, again. The skill positions benefit from the lines.

Count Alex's Losses
12-16-2007, 08:31 PM
Hopefully, Drummond has already cleaned out his locker.

NO!!! Two or three more muffed punts and we lock up a top five pick.

Coach
12-16-2007, 08:32 PM
Hopefully, Drummond has already cleaned out his locker.

I wouldn't count on it.

Count Alex's Losses
12-16-2007, 08:32 PM
Like the Jags do this stuff with Garrard yea it works now but they'll never get past NE or Indy.


What?

Garrard has played incredibly well this year.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:33 PM
I respect that the fact that we differ. A actual O-line can make a league average QB to a solid QB. Just ask Trent on how he feel behind the line of Roaf and Waters with Tait. Compare that to the Dolphin line this year.

Well, all I think is the best for the Chiefs is to build their lines. Doesn't matter if it's offensive or defensive, the lines needs to be rebuilt, again. The skill positions benefit from the lines.

If you have great lines and an elite QB you'll be one of the best teams in the league......everything else is just an extension of that.

Sounds simple but some teams spend 10 years trying to find those things.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:34 PM
What?

Garrard has played incredibly well this year.

He has about as good as you can expect........and they still won't get past NE or Indy.......

Sometimes I think what Herm wants is to be the Jags and well it's not my desire to be a great regular season team that gets pelted by one of the elite in the playoffs every year.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2007, 08:36 PM
That was a pretty coool fleaflicker play, only thing was I thought Webb could have made an extra effort to catch the ball.

Brodie made some plays with his feet to avoid the sack and he also threw the ball away to avoid the INT. He did throw a couple INTs but BFD that's what young QBs do. Veterans aren't emune to throwing INTs either. INTs are killers but we have to give Brodie some time to learn from those mistakes. I like Brodie and he has met my expectations and am very much hoping he is our QB for a long time. He needs a team to support him and fans that will be patient with him.

I'm gonna stand bye that it was the penalties that killed us the most today. That play that Eddie Kennison made to like the ten yard line got called back and we had several penalties today that made it tough to get first downs.

gblowfish
12-16-2007, 08:37 PM
Riddle me this:

Let's say we started this defense next week against Detroit:

DE: Vonnie Holliday, Eric Hicks
DT: Ryan Sims, Junior Siavii
LB: Kendrell Bell, Kawika Mitchell, Scott Fujita
CB: Toasty and Crispy (Warfield & Bartee)
SS & FS: Jerome Woods, Greg Wesley

Would these guys do better....I mean, present day...than what we got out there now?

Count Alex's Losses
12-16-2007, 08:39 PM
He has about as good as you can expect........and they still won't get past NE or Indy.......


As good as you can expect is a 101.6 QB rating? Only 2 picks all year?

The Chiefs would be lucky if Croyle turned out as well as Garrard has. He played great against a tough defense today.

Count Alex's Losses
12-16-2007, 08:40 PM
Riddle me this:

Let's say we started this defense next week against Detroit:

DE: Vonnie Holliday, Eric Hicks
DT: Ryan Sims, Junior Siavii
LB: Kendrell Bell, Kawika Mitchell, Scott Fujita, Glenn Cadrez
CB: Toasty and Crispy (Warfield & Bartee)
SS & FS: Jerome Woods, Greg Wesley

Would these guys do better....I mean, present day...than what we got out there now?

We gave up 26 to the f'ing Titans in ARROWHEAD.

I doubt we hold Detroit under 30.

gblowfish
12-16-2007, 08:41 PM
I had to remove Glenn Cadrez for two reasons:

1) That's 12 players. We get penalized on every play (not too far removed from reality) and

2) They still haven't been able to remove his nose from Greg Robinson's ass.

Deberg_1990
12-16-2007, 08:41 PM
He has about as good as you can expect........and they still won't get past NE or Indy.......

Sometimes I think what Herm wants is to be the Jags and well it's not my desire to be a great regular season team that gets pelted by one of the elite in the playoffs every year.

The Jags remind me alot of the Chiefs circa 1990 - 97.


Their D is tough and can probably beat any team, but the offense ist quite high powered enough to beat the really elite teams.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:41 PM
As good as you can expect is a 101.6 QB rating? Only 2 picks all year?

The Chiefs would be lucky if Croyle turned out as well as Garrard has. He played great against a tough defense today.

You are pretty much reinforcing my point......for all that, as good as he's been this year. Do you think they can win a bowl.....is he a top 5 elite QB that can beat Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? That's all that needs to be asked...

Those QB's are going to be in this league for many more years with those teams sitting on top, until you have a player/team that you feel is on their level that can beat them, you play for nothing.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:42 PM
The Jags remind me alot of the Chiefs circa 1990 - 97.


Their D is tough and can probably beat any team, but the offense ist quite high powered enough to beat the really elite teams.

And the Chiefs still didn't win the Superbowl in the 90's when the AFC was weaker and no offense resembled what NE or Indy does now...it's even more difficult to win like that now.

shaneo69
12-16-2007, 08:43 PM
We gave up 26 to the f'ing Titans in ARROWHEAD.

I doubt we hold Detroit under 30.

I think the Lions have packed it in...

shaneo69
12-16-2007, 08:44 PM
You are pretty much reinforcing my point......for all that, as good as he's been this year. Do you think they can win a bowl.....is he a top 5 elite QB that can beat Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? That's all that needs to be asked...

Those QB's are going to be in this league for many more years with those teams sitting on top, until you have a player/team that you feel is on their level that can beat them, you play for nothing.

Who are the Jags WR's again?

Deberg_1990
12-16-2007, 08:45 PM
I think the Lions have packed it in...

and the Chiefs havent?? LOL

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 08:47 PM
You are pretty much reinforcing my point......for all that, as good as he's been this year. Do you think they can win a bowl.....is he a top 5 elite QB that can beat Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? That's all that needs to be asked...

Those QB's are going to be in this league for many more years with those teams sitting on top, until you have a player/team that you feel is on their level that can beat them, you play for nothing.

Sure he can just like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson did. You don't have to have an elite QB to win a SB but it sure doesn't hurt.

TEX
12-16-2007, 08:48 PM
I think the Lions have packed it in...

So have we so it could be interesting.

MadMax
12-16-2007, 08:50 PM
You are pretty much reinforcing my point......for all that, as good as he's been this year. Do you think they can win a bowl.....is he a top 5 elite QB that can beat Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? That's all that needs to be asked...

Those QB's are going to be in this league for many more years with those teams sitting on top, until you have a player/team that you feel is on their level that can beat them, you play for nothing.



How many Mannings or Bradys are there??? We have no hope ever with that phylosophy.. Damn I thought I was doom and gloom,but I do not believe those teams are unbeatable. I think you can beat both with a very good running game and a very good defense..Shit if we need to have a top 5 QB then we might as well forfeit all our games till Gods Manning and Brady retire???

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 08:52 PM
Carson Palmer is an elite QB but he as about as close to going to the SB as Brodie is.

KCinNY
12-16-2007, 08:53 PM
Who are the Jags WR's again?

Williams, Northcutt and Matt Jones aren't the worst group in the league.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:56 PM
Sure he can just like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson did. You don't have to have an elite QB to win a SB but it sure doesn't hurt.

I think those are exceptions more than rules now......if you look at the direction the league is going.

Palmer also has nothing...he has a couple WR's.

Mr. Flopnuts
12-16-2007, 08:57 PM
And those records were broken by a far better QB that acually won something? lol i'm just here to spin my wheels i'm not upset at all that we lost. I'm just saying Brodie has looked very good at times and not so good at others, but he has started ONLY 4 freakin games. This team needs a lot of changes and I pray they come from top to bottom. Just maybe if Croyle has decent coaches " with a winning attitude " and some better players around him he will show some fire. IMHO he is on track to be a decent QB in the NFL.



Word.

Simplex3
12-16-2007, 08:58 PM
Big Ben did it, Brady, Brett, Manning. I guess what I am saying is that Brodie has not made this HIS team.

I mean you just choke the game away again-throw your helmet or something-don't just sit down and hide.
It isn't his team. It's Carl, Herm, and Curl's team. Everyone knows it.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 08:59 PM
I think those are exceptions more than rules now......if you look at the direction the league is going.

Palmer also has nothing...he has a couple WR's.

Exactly it takes alot more than just having an elite QB. If you don't have a good O-Line, WR's and a very good D you are not going to ever win a SB.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:59 PM
How many Mannings or Bradys are there??? We have no hope ever with that phylosophy.. Damn I thought I was doom and gloom,but I do not believe those teams are unbeatable. I think you can beat both with a very good running game and a very good defense..Shit if we need to have a top 5 QB then we might as well forfeit all our games till Gods Manning and Brady retire???

You took my post the wrong way.....you have to build that way....

You aren't gonna beat the Pats 10-3. If you desire to play like the Jags which is what you described you'll lose...

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:01 PM
Exactly it takes alot more than just having an elite QB. If you don't have a good O-Line, WR's and a very good D you are not going to ever win a SB.

It starts at the QB, then it goes to the lines, then everything else.

Problem with Herms way of wanting to play is the league is changing. The top 4 teams NE, Indy, GB, Dallas are the 4 highest scoring teams. The elite defense ok offense isn't what the league is built on anymore...now it's elite offense ok defense.

The Pats aren't 14-0 because of a dominating defense, their defense is good enough and compliments their elite O, same for the rest of those teams.

Hydrae
12-16-2007, 09:03 PM
The only thing I'm going to say is I don't really care about being fair to Brodie Croyle..or well any player on the team. I care about the team being an elite championship franchise and doing what it takes to get there...

And right now it's pretty obvious what it takes to be that is a franchise elite QB and I don't think Croyle will be that. If you do, that's fine it just means we differ. I don't think having a league average QB or a guy that just doesn't make mistakes is good enough anymore..

Like the Jags do this stuff with Garrard yea it works now but they'll never get past NE or Indy.

This is all moot anyway I don't think we'll get a chance to draft Ryan unless weird shit happens like some bizarre wins from teams or the Falcons deciding they can't take another top 5 QB this year after the Vick stuff.


Make up your mind, will you? I just finished reading another thread where you kept going on and on about how we needed an elite DT and should take one with our first pick of the draft. You do realize that you need 11 guys on each side of the ball and they can not and will not all be elite? Not even the Pats are elite at every position and we only have 1 top 10 draft pick this year.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 09:07 PM
It starts at the QB, then it goes to the lines, then everything else.

Problem with Herms way of wanting to play is the league is changing. The top 4 teams NE, Indy, GB, Dallas are the 4 highest scoring teams. The elite defense ok offense isn't what the league is built on anymore...now it's elite offense ok defense.

The Pats aren't 14-0 because of a dominating defense, their defense is good enough and compliments their elite O, same for the rest of those teams.

I agree somewhat but IMO a great D will always beat a great O. There are just no elite D's in the league right now to stop them.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:12 PM
Make up your mind, will you? I just finished reading another thread where you kept going on and on about how we needed an elite DT and should take one with our first pick of the draft. You do realize that you need 11 guys on each side of the ball and they can not and will not all be elite? Not even the Pats are elite at every position and we only have 1 top 10 draft pick this year.

I think they should take whoever the best player on the board is...my base argument is this team needs elite players in general to build the core of it's team around.......

I'd prefer it to be a QB and some linemen, I don't think there are any elite Olinemen in this draft.

There are several guys I'm fine with picking, I use guys like Ellis as an example......if you asked me Matt Ryan or Jake Long....I'd tell you Matt Ryan.

I think you took my posts the wrong way as "stumping for a DT" I'm not really doing that.......I doubt Matt Ryan is available when we pick anyway.

beach tribe
12-16-2007, 09:19 PM
If we use our First pick on a QB, I will lose my fukin mind.

Silock
12-16-2007, 09:23 PM
Because Matt Ryans upside is light years higher than Brodie Croyles? I wouldn't wanna throw Ryan out there right away anyway part of the reason he's so well regarded is his intelligence....he won't be that smart about the game right away.

I could be wrong though but playing Croyle that year could benefit the Chiefs in the long run.

Upside doesn't win football games.

Deberg_1990
12-16-2007, 09:24 PM
If we use our First pick on a QB, I will lose my fukin mind.

Why? This team isnt "one player away" as Carl would like you to believe.

Its about 15-20 players away.

MadMax
12-16-2007, 09:24 PM
You took my post the wrong way.....you have to build that way....

You aren't gonna beat the Pats 10-3. If you desire to play like the Jags which is what you described you'll lose...


At this point the Chiefs need help in so many areas I just don't believe QB should be a major focus yet. BPA works for me and I really hope they don't screw that up. I will admit I know little of the College players so I depend on you guys and the so called experts to school me lol I was hoping we would have gotten Brady Quinn last year, but I am happy we got Bowe. I'm just another disgruntled Chiefs fan that is so sick and tired of the same ol same ol

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:29 PM
If as a GM my guys evaluated Matt Ryan as a franchise QB and I strongly felt he was that, I'd pick him. Brodie Croyle shouldn't stop you from making that pick. That's the point I'm making...

If the Chiefs pass on Ryan, Croyle becomes an average to slightly above average QB and Ryan becomes Carson Palmer we'll all feel real stupid.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 09:30 PM
Why? This team isnt "one player away" as Carl would like you to believe.

Its about 15-20 players away.

That is true, but I think there are much more pressing needs than QB at this point.

This is one of the worst QB classes in years. And it's not like we've given our young QB a real chance to succeed by getting him some help or at least giving him more experience.

He's made enough progress over his last four games that had we actually started him from Day One, I'm confident we'd have a damn good idea of our "needs" at QB.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:32 PM
That is true, but I think there are much more pressing needs than QB at this point.

This is one of the worst QB classes in years. And it's not like we've given our young QB a real chance to succeed by getting him some help or at least giving him more experience.

He's made enough progress over his last four games that had we actually started him from Day One, I'm confident we'd have a damn good idea of our "needs" at QB.

I disagree with your QB class evaluation........go over the last 5....the class isn't that bad....

beach tribe
12-16-2007, 09:34 PM
Why? This team isnt "one player away" as Carl would like you to believe.

Its about 15-20 players away.
This team needs players Across the Board. Croyle has shown poise, under difficult circumstances.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 09:37 PM
I disagree with your QB class evaluation........go over the last 5....the class isn't that bad....

I have.

I don't think any of these guys will be any better than the guys who have come out in the last 3-5 years.

There's been Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger and a bunch of question marks.

When healthy, Leinart is probably the next best of the group, as well as Derek Anderson.

Not exactly a stellar group.....

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:39 PM
I have.

I don't think any of these guys will be any better than the guys who have come out in the last 3-5 years.

There's been Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger and a bunch of question marks.

When healthy, Leinart is probably the next best of the group, as well as Derek Anderson.

Not exactly a stellar group.....

See, exactly my point......the QB classes are generally like this one. I don't think it's a bad class or a great class.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 09:41 PM
I have.

I don't think any of these guys will be any better than the guys who have come out in the last 3-5 years.

There's been Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger and a bunch of question marks.

When healthy, Leinart is probably the next best of the group, as well as Derek Anderson.

Not exactly a stellar group.....

Cutler is going to be better than Leinart.

Damn that hurts to say that. :banghead:

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 09:44 PM
See, exactly my point......the QB classes are generally like this one. I don't think it's a bad class or a great class.

And why I don't advocate taking a QB with a Top 5 pick, unless he's a no-brainer. Which none of these guys are, IMO.

Not to mention, the chances of Ellis, Laurinaitis, or either of the Jenkins being there when we pick are pretty decent. Any of those guys would benefit the team more early AND in the future than Ryan would, IMO.

cdcox
12-16-2007, 09:45 PM
I agree somewhat but IMO a great D will always beat a great O. There are just no elite D's in the league right now to stop them.

The lack of elite D's is not a coincidence. The rules are tilted toward the offense. Free agency and the salary cap keeps teams from having an elite D. A defense seems to get hot for a season or half season, but it just isn't sustainable. Elite offenses can go 5+ years. Ravens have been know for their D, for a long time, but it has only been elite for a year. Steelers won with D, but I don't think it was elite. People were talking about Chicago's D a year ago, but now look at it. Trying to win a SB with an elite D has been shown to result in maybe one SB win. Elite offenses are the basis of dynasties. It's just stupid to emphasize defense over offense in today's NFL. You need a good defense, but not a great one.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 09:46 PM
Cutler is going to be better than Leinart.

Damn that hurts to say that. :banghead:

I think it's easier to say that because Cutler is ahead of Leinart right now since he's played all year and gotten experience, while ML has been injured.

We've seen more of Cutler. But IMO Leinart has more natural talent and makes better decisions than Cutler.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:47 PM
The lack of elite D's is not a coincidence. The rules are tilted toward the offense. Free agency and the salary cap keeps teams from having an elite D. A defense seems to get hot for a season or half season, but it just isn't sustainable. Elite offenses can go 5+ years. Ravens have been know for their D, for a long time, but it has only been elite for a year. Steelers won with D, but I don't think it was elite. People were talking about Chicago's D a year ago, but now look at it. Trying to win a SB with an elite D has been shown to result in maybe one SB win. Elite offenses are the basis of dynasties. It's just stupid to emphasize defense over offense in today's NFL. You need a good defense, but not a great one.

Ba Ding....and to me that all starts at QB that is why I would seriously consider taking a QB first.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 09:49 PM
Ba Ding....and to me that all starts at QB that is why I would seriously consider taking a QB first.

Unless you feel you already have the QB, then you get him a line and some weapons to maximize his potential.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:51 PM
Unless you feel you already have the QB, then you get him a line and some weapons to maximize his potential.

Well that's where we differ.......To me I don't think Croyle will ever make it through 16 games. And I think at best he'll be a slightly above average QB....

Delano
12-16-2007, 09:57 PM
Well that's where we differ.......To me I don't think Croyle will ever make it through 16 games. And I think at best he'll be a slightly above average QB....

So... to clarify, you believe Croyle is injury prone and will be a mediocre starter? Or.. Croyle is injury prone and that will make him mediocre, despite his possession of all the skills needed to be a good QB?

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 09:58 PM
Well that's where we differ.......To me I don't think Croyle will ever make it through 16 games. And I think at best he'll be a slightly above average QB....

I'm not saying he will or won't be.

But I can say that I KNOW that we don't have a single decent projected OL starter.

That at best, we have 2 DTOTF.

Nothing at MLB for the future.

Nothing at CB for the future.

1 player at WR for the future.

We don't know for sure what we have in Croyle. But we do know that we have SERIOUS holes at just about every other position on the roster.

And the guys who are coming out at those positions I mentioned all project to be ELITE. But the QB class is a question mark.

Question:

If Ryan, Ellis, J. Long, Laurintaitis, and both Jenkins were available at our pick, who would you take? Please list in order of preference.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 10:02 PM
I'm not saying he will or won't be.

But I can say that I KNOW that we don't have a single decent projected OL starter.

That at best, we have 2 DTOTF.

Nothing at MLB for the future.

Nothing at CB for the future.

1 player at WR for the future.

We don't know for sure what we have in Croyle. But we do know that we have SERIOUS holes at just about every other position on the roster.

And the guys who are coming out at those positions I mentioned all project to be ELITE. But the QB class is a question mark.

Question:

If Ryan, Ellis, J. Long, Laurintaitis, and both Jenkins were available at our pick, who would you take? Please list in order of preference.

Are we still playing this defense and all that.....if so...it will also depend on scouts evaluations and all that but I'd honestly probably rank them in my view like this in order of how I'd pick them...

Ryan, Ellis, Laurinitis, Long and then the Jenkins....I but Long there because of the depth of OL and the Corners last because it's a deep year for them, cover 2, and building a defense back to front isn't wise.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 10:03 PM
So... to clarify, you believe Croyle is injury prone and will be a mediocre starter? Or.. Croyle is injury prone and that will make him mediocre, despite his possession of all the skills needed to be a good QB?

A bit of a combination actually.....When he was in the draft he reminded me of Rob Johnson. I still see some of that.....I'll come up with a better comparison at some point though.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 10:06 PM
Are we still playing this defense and all that.....if so...it will also depend on scouts evaluations and all that but I'd honestly probably rank them in my view like this in order of how I'd pick them...

Ryan, Ellis, Laurinitis, Long and then the Jenkins....I but Long there because of the depth of OL and the Corners last because it's a deep year for them, cover 2, and building a defense back to front isn't wise.

Yeah, assuming that Herm is still here and we're still playing the same schemes.....

I'd have them in the exact same order starting with Ellis, and having Ryan at the end.

I think Ellis and Laurinaitis are head and shoulders ahead of the rest of that list.

After those two, I guess I could live with any of those picks, but there's no way at least one of those two aren't available at our pick, unless we win out and **** up our draft standing.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 10:08 PM
I'm 99% sure Laurinitis isn't coming out.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 10:11 PM
I'm 99% sure Laurinitis isn't coming out.

??????

First I'd heard of it. He's all but guaranteed to be a Top 10 pick. That isn't going to change for the better if he stays in school.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 10:14 PM
??????

First I'd heard of it. He's all but guaranteed to be a Top 10 pick. That isn't going to change for the better if he stays in school.

Joe Schad that guy who does college stuff for ESPN was on the news station roughly 2 days ago. He said he talked to him about it and said James you are projected as high as the 2nd round to the Pats, are you leaving.

He said he was told by Laurenitis that he would love to play for the Pats but he was likely returning to school. And that there were 10 Buckeyes that had applied for the draft and he was going to talk to them and try to get them to stay.

Smed1065
12-16-2007, 10:18 PM
Marino set records with below average receivers, no running game, and a shitty O line.

Sound familar. It was the fire inside that made him great.

Brodie is as quiet as a mouse.

I feel that will change as the years playing in the NFL continue, especially if it with the Chiefs! That are he will be JA.


:drool: :drool:

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2007, 10:19 PM
Joe Schad that guy who does college stuff for ESPN was on the news station roughly 2 days ago. He said he talked to him about it and said James you are projected as high as the 2nd round to the Pats, are you leaving.

He said he was told by Laurenitis that he would love to play for the Pats but he was likely returning to school. And that there were 10 Buckeyes that had applied for the draft and he was going to talk to them and try to get them to stay.

Interesting.

I'm betting he changes his mind when half of the team officially declare for the draft.

CoMoChief
12-16-2007, 10:59 PM
This is why Herman Edwards fails as a HC and is why he needs to go if this team is ever gonna go in the right direction.

Quote from Jared Allen.

I dont know what the hell is going on, Allen said. Its like, one bad thing happens, and we just fall apart. Maybe were just happy with playing close. I dont know what it is. But its obviously a habit for us now. Weve almost won a lot of games. Thats what we do. We almost win. Maybe there are too many people OK with that.