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View Full Version : Do you think the Chiefs need to Re-build their secondary?


RedThat
12-16-2007, 08:52 PM
I don't know about you guys, but, I've been disappointed with the secondary this year. I know we were up there in passing defense this year and mainly because of Allen otherwise the rest of the guys back there have not performed well enough? Just my thoughts. What do you guys think?

Simplex3
12-16-2007, 08:53 PM
Wow. Put the bong down and step away...

You're just now figuring this out?

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:54 PM
They need to rebuild just about everything...

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2007, 08:55 PM
Page and Pollard are most likely career backups. Surtain could serve as a one year stopgap. Law has no business as anything other than a DB coach at this point.

Pestilence
12-16-2007, 08:55 PM
Does the Pope shit in the woods?

Claynus
12-16-2007, 08:57 PM
Page and Pollard are most likely career backups. Surtain could serve as a one year stopgap. Law has no business as anything other than a DB coach at this point.

Pollard perhaps. Not Page. He just needs to work on his tackling.

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2007, 08:58 PM
Pollard is a cover 2 linebacker trying to play strong safety. We need two corners as well.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:58 PM
Page looked real good staring in the backfield and getting smoked by Roydell Williams...

And Pollard yet another wasted 2nd round pick.

Smed1065
12-16-2007, 08:58 PM
Page and Pollard are most likely career backups. Surtain could serve as a one year stopgap. Law has no business as anything other than a DB coach at this point.

It must be wild today, I actually agree.

I think Pollard is what I though he was, a bust. Blocked kicks are good but do not make a 2nd round pick. IMO.

I still hold hope for Page, maybe because of the round of pick!

Mecca
12-16-2007, 08:59 PM
I was going to say that.
Its easier to say what they dont need to rebuild:
Punter, TE, RB, RDE, saftey

RB and safety are pretty debatable......those safeties might be young but neither is exactly good.

Delano
12-16-2007, 09:00 PM
How terrible would the defensive backfield be if Page and Pollard were the most experienced guys?

I'd really like to see if they can improve over the offseason, but at this point, they seem lost in a majority of the pass plays.

Cochise
12-16-2007, 09:04 PM
We could give the safeties one more year to develop. We can't fix everything at once, we could wait and see how they do in 2008 before we can them. We have plenty of other holes we could fill in the meantime.

Neither is an NFL starter right now but both can make a good play sometimes.

Those two make me wonder what our secondary coach does all day.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2007, 09:05 PM
I'm really starting to develop a Wesley-level of dislike for Pollard.

The guy does nothing on defense. Everyone hated the pick at first, and then got a hard-on when they saw a highlight reel of him bodyslamming some sorry motherf*cker from Minnesota. The fact remains that the guy runs like he's in quicksand, and hits like he's wearing a three inch thick full body rubber.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:06 PM
They'll most likely get another year........It still blows my mind that this team took an undersized LB to play safety in a defense that requires safety speed....that just makes no sense....

Passed on Ko Simpson for him, that still pisses me off.

RedThat
12-16-2007, 09:06 PM
They need to rebuild just about everything...

Ok, but do you feel that this is the part of the team that they need to focus on most? Even regardless of the issues we have on the offensive line.

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2007, 09:07 PM
I'm really starting to develop a Wesley-level of dislike for Pollard.

The guy does nothing on defense. Everyone hated the pick at first, and then got a hard-on when they saw a highlight reel of him bodyslamming some sorry motherf*cker from Minnesota. The fact remains that the guy runs like he's in quicksand, and hits like he's wearing a three inch thick full body rubber.

Its bc he should be a linebacker instead of a strong safety.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2007, 09:08 PM
Its bc he should be a linebacker instead of a strong safety.

He sure as shit doesn't hit like one, despite what you saw in college.

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2007, 09:09 PM
He sure as shit doesn't hit like one, despite what you saw in college.

No but Donnie Edwards doesnt either, I think they are carbon copies of each other.

RedThat
12-16-2007, 09:09 PM
Maybe the Chiefs should just play Pollard on special teams more?

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:10 PM
No but Donnie Edwards doesnt either, I think they are carbon copies of each other.

From how often Pollard is caught out of position....especially being late on deep balls. I'll wager he wouldn't be as good as Edwards or even close due to just being a dipshit.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2007, 09:10 PM
No but Donnie Edwards doesnt either, I think they are carbon copies of each other.


You could lop a digit off of Donnie Edwards' football IQ and it would still be higher than Pollard's.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:10 PM
Ok, but do you feel that this is the part of the team that they need to focus on most? Even regardless of the issues we have on the offensive line.

I think you build front to back so if you are saying use a first round pick on a corner or something then no.

Smed1065
12-16-2007, 09:11 PM
I'm really starting to develop a Wesley-level of dislike for Pollard.

The guy does nothing on defense. Everyone hated the pick at first, and then got a hard-on when they saw a highlight reel of him bodyslamming some sorry motherf*cker from Minnesota. The fact remains that the guy runs like he's in quicksand, and hits like he's wearing a three inch thick full body rubber.

Damn I am getting worried!
Blocked kick or nothing.

But lets bitch about JA.

LOL

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 09:12 PM
Maybe the Chiefs should go to the 3-4 next year and move Pollard to LB like the Pats use Vrabel

Deberg_1990
12-16-2007, 09:12 PM
It would be funny if Wesley ends up starting again next year. :)

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2007, 09:13 PM
Maybe the Chiefs should go to the 3-4 next year and move Pollard to LB like the Pats use Vrabel

Allen and Hali aren't 3-4 ends, that and you need a total fat ass for the nose.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2007, 09:15 PM
Maybe the Chiefs should go to the 3-4 next year and move Pollard to LB like the Pats use Vrabel
Who the f*ck would play on our D-Line??

Allen and Hali would both have to play LB in that scheme. Tank would have to bulk up to be a NT, and Boone isn't fast enough to play end.

Wilkerson would be an undersized 3-4 DE, and Turk would be the same.

RedThat
12-16-2007, 09:16 PM
Maybe the Chiefs should go to the 3-4 next year and move Pollard to LB like the Pats use Vrabel

Nah, I think 4-3 is the way to go. I don't think our personnel is build for a 3-4. I think that Hali, Allen, and Boone are respectable DLmen. get 1 more good DT, and this line will be really good imo.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:16 PM
Maybe the Chiefs should go to the 3-4 next year and move Pollard to LB like the Pats use Vrabel

We don't remotely have 3-4 personel.......

We'd need different kind of linemen and we'd have to get completely different LB's......the 3-4 is for guys like DeMarcus Ware.

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 09:17 PM
It was just a thought I will shut up now.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2007, 09:17 PM
I'm not ready to give up on Pollard or Page. I'd give them another year but have some guys ready to go in. The O line & D line are much higher priority than the DBs. The CBs are a detriment to the team Ty Law is gone I'm sure, & Pat Surtain may have another year just long enough to develop a CB.

JBucc
12-16-2007, 09:18 PM
I just hope we're able to shitcan gramps and great gramps. With the exception of Donnie and Boone I hope everyone on our D next year will be under 30.

RedThat
12-16-2007, 09:18 PM
This might be a stupid question but, do you think Page could be a good corner?

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2007, 09:19 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3177000&postcount=976



How do you mess up a pick like Youboty at 54?? My f*cking god.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:19 PM
This might be a stupid question but, do you think Page could be a good corner?

Uh no....he's already big and slow.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:20 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3177000&postcount=976

LOL....you likely remember me going...um take Youboty and Simpson about 50 times during that draft.

RustShack
12-16-2007, 09:22 PM
I think Page is on his way to being a good starter, I'm still hopeing Pollard can grow into a better one. I think both could have a pretty bright future here in KC though, its just a matter of time.

Smed1065
12-16-2007, 09:22 PM
Uh no....he's already big and slow.

Damn it. I agree with posters today!


:banghead: He is a bust, Imagine a 2nd round bust for us?

(hoping this proves me wrong)

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2007, 09:24 PM
LOL....you likely remember me going...um take Youboty and Simpson about 50 times during that draft.

Actually your next post quoting mine was:

It's why we haven't won a playoff game in 20 years........and why people on shows can make fun of us and have nothing to worry about.

Coach
12-16-2007, 09:24 PM
LOL....you likely remember me going...um take Youboty and Simpson about 50 times during that draft.

Well, problem is, neither of the two you mentioned are doing shit either.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2007, 09:25 PM
ROFL

How do you not take a 1st round-talent CB at 54?? Trying to get my mind around this is like trying to use an abacus to do the processing power needed to render the CGI in a f*cking Star Wars movie. I need to disembowel something right now..

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:25 PM
Actually your next post quoting mine was:

It's why we haven't won a playoff game in 20 years........and why people on shows can make fun of us and have nothing to worry about.

That quote is even more true today......

To any of my friends that aren't Chiefs fans, the Chiefs on draft day are a running joke just like the Jets.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:26 PM
Well, problem is, neither of the two you mentioned are doing shit either.

Ko Simpsons on IR with broken ankle........he did more in his rookie year than Pollard has in 2. If we wanted a safety we should have taken him....kinda ****ed that Buffalo took both guys I wanted.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2007, 09:27 PM
Ko Simpson was really good last year and got hurt in the first game this year.

Coach
12-16-2007, 09:28 PM
Ko Simpsons on IR with broken ankle........he did more in his rookie year than Pollard has in 2. If we wanted a safety we should have taken him....kinda ****ed that Buffalo took both guys I wanted.

Well, with that reasoning, a person on IR isn't gonna help anybody if he ain't gonna stay healthy. So that's pretty much a push.

Let me ask you this though. What does it mean if our Strong Safety leads in the top 5 on tackles on the team?

Coach
12-16-2007, 09:28 PM
Ko Simpson was really good last year and got hurt in the first game this year.

I understand that, and I'm sure he'll be good. But he can't be good if he get injured.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:30 PM
Well, with that reasoning, a person on IR isn't gonna help anybody if he ain't gonna stay healthy. So that's pretty much a push.

Let me ask you this though. What does it mean if our Strong Safety leads the team in tackles?

That the defense sucks?

If they wanted to take a safety fine, just take the good one, they couldn't even get that right.

It's like some years ago, the year the Chiefs drafted Woods and Tongue....a couple picks after Woods, Lawyer Milloy was picked..a couple picks after Tongue..Brian Dawkins was picked..

Our team can never get it right.

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2007, 09:33 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3177000&postcount=976

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3181992&postcount=11

:)

keg in kc
12-16-2007, 09:33 PM
Is this a trick question?

Coach
12-16-2007, 09:33 PM
That the defense sucks?

If they wanted to take a safety fine, just take the good one, they couldn't even get that right.

It's like some years ago, the year the Chiefs drafted Woods and Tongue....a couple picks after Woods, Lawyer Milloy was picked..a couple picks after Tongue..Brian Dawkins was picked..

Our team can never get it right.

There you go. Perhaps maybe that Pollard and or Page are in a tough situation, becuase of the fact that our defense sucks. The normal way it should go is that your 3 LB's should lead the team, with some D-Linemen and some DE's. Unfortunately, it's more of SS's/CB's and Jared Allen.

And of course, I never understood why the hell Gonther wanted to match up Page with the receiver. That was a clear mis-match, and anybody in the NFL knows it. No safety in the league would had caught up with that play.

And Woods and Tongue was actually good for us awhile back. Hell, Woods was good until he had that freak leg injury, and he was never the same.

UteChief
12-16-2007, 09:34 PM
That the defense sucks?

If they wanted to take a safety fine, just take the good one, they couldn't even get that right.

It's like some years ago, the year the Chiefs drafted Woods and Tongue....a couple picks after Woods, Lawyer Milloy was picked..a couple picks after Tongue..Brian Dawkins was picked..

Our team can never get it right.

Are these Carl's decisions or the coaching staff's?

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:35 PM
Just for humor sake Greg Jennings went 5 picks ahead of Pollard......ah the difference in Packers and the Chiefs.

Claynus
12-16-2007, 09:35 PM
Just for humor sake Greg Jennings went 5 picks ahead of Pollard......ah the difference in Packers and the Chiefs.

That's a little unfair. You have no idea if the Chiefs wanted to pick Jennings.

Zouk
12-16-2007, 09:35 PM
Yobouty doesn't get defensive snaps for the Bills. They play guys like Jerametrius Butler and Bryan Scott over him. He was very raw coming out but he's done absolutely nothing so far.

And I think you guys are giving up on Pollard too soon. Came out as a junior and didn't play D last year.

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2007, 09:36 PM
Just for humor sake Greg Jennings went 5 picks ahead of Pollard......ah the difference in Packers and the Chiefs.

Cant really do much for teams taking someone ahead of you.

the Talking Can
12-16-2007, 09:36 PM
the problem is that everyone is getting worse, and it is hard to figure out who just sucks, who kinda sucks, and who just looks bad because everyone else sucks...

the defense has imploded...I think Allen, DJ, and Hali are the only talent under 30 on the whole defense....

Pollard/Page/Tank/Turk are all just big f'in ????s.....though I expected a lot more from Pollard to be honest, he is starting to look like yet another 2nd round reach and bust...

Coach
12-16-2007, 09:36 PM
Just for humor sake Greg Jennings went 5 picks ahead of Pollard......ah the difference in Packers and the Chiefs.

Again, how good is Green Bay's D-line compared to ours?

Seriously, this is a no-brainer. All the skill set positions benefit greatly or poorly from the line. If you have a very solid line, more than likely your skill positions will do just fine.

However, if your line is a awful piss-poor line, then your skill positions won't benefit greatly from it.

See where I'm going at?

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2007, 09:37 PM
Again, how good is Green Bay's D-line compared to ours?

Seriously, this is a no-brainer. All the skill set positions benefit greatly or poorly from the line. If you have a very solid line, more than likely your skill positions will do just fine.

However, if your line is a awful piss-poor line, then your skill positions won't benefit greatly from it.

See where I'm going at?

Defensive line is the same way.

Coach
12-16-2007, 09:39 PM
Defensive line is the same way.

That's what I'm saying. Outside of Jared Allen and at times, Hali, the line is just awful. They had a tough time stopping the runs, and couldn't even get any interior pass rush.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:40 PM
Ok I have to show these posts....

some of them ring true to this day...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3176973&postcount=958

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3176947&postcount=944

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3176988&postcount=968

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3177028&postcount=990

I wonder if anyone will debate me on if Pollard is to slow or not now...

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2007, 09:40 PM
Another good comparison. I think he saw this as a John Lynch/Bob Sanders type of pick. Maybe not a guy who can fly or has the best measurables but makes plays and hits hard.

ROFL

dirk digler
12-16-2007, 09:42 PM
That's a little unfair. You have no idea if the Chiefs wanted to pick Jennings.

Yep I agree. Silly comparison IMO

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2007, 09:43 PM
ROFL ROFL

A healthy Sims could make a difference too.

Anyone know about Battle? Wasn't Battle slotted in Wesley's job before he got hurt last year? He's pretty darn fast as I recalll....

I'm looking for positives here, guys; I just think Herman gets paid to do this, and has a decent record in the draft during his time in NY.....I'm gonna wait and see.

RedThat
12-16-2007, 09:43 PM
the problem is that everyone is getting worse, and it is hard to figure out who just sucks, who kinda sucks, and who just looks bad because everyone else sucks...

the defense has imploded...I think Allen, DJ, and Hali are the only talent under 30 on the whole defense....

Pollard/Page/Tank/Turk are all just big f'in ????s.....though I expected a lot more from Pollard to be honest, he is starting to look like yet another 2nd round reach and bust...

but thats what happens when you have a bad team. After youre like 4-10 that prolly changes the mindset in certain players now? So yeah it is somewhat hard to tell now who is good, ok, to not so good. But if you base it over a whole season and evaluate, it's not that hard to know who should stay and who is best to move on.

L.A. Chieffan
12-16-2007, 09:43 PM
I think Law can still play till he's about 47 or so

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:45 PM
Cant really do much for teams taking someone ahead of you.

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt if they had gotten 1 good 2nd rounder in the last decade.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:46 PM
ROFL

That one is great.....Bob Sanders is one of the fastest safeties in the league and he's undersized........Pollard is slow and oversized...what kinda comparison is that?

Claynus
12-16-2007, 09:47 PM
Mecca is a goddamn prophet.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:49 PM
Mecca is a goddamn prophet.

LOL, I'm generally pretty good with the draft.....

I thought Cromartie and Simpson would be stars from that draft....

Coach
12-16-2007, 09:51 PM
Mecca is a goddamn prophet.

Not necessarly.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3600910&postcount=4

Well it was from the LA Times........if that does happen USC/Michigan should be interesting.

Florida's gonna get raped in this game.......Chris Leak isn't good enough they've made mistakes in every game a team like OSU will dominate them.

In reference to the Ohio St/Florida National Championship game in 2006, where Ohio State got punked.

There's plenty more of his prophencies, but never came true, littered all over the board.

Coach
12-16-2007, 09:52 PM
LOL, I'm generally pretty good with the draft.....

I thought Cromartie and Simpson would be stars from that draft....

Perhaps, but they haven't amount to jack shit thus far.

I just call it as I see it.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:53 PM
Not necessarly.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3600910&postcount=4



In reference to the Ohio St/Florida National Championship game in 2006, where Ohio State got punked.

There's plenty more of his prophencies, but never came true, littered all over the board.

That was a full on ****up, I didn't even think about it but the Big 10 has severe issues with the Pac and SEC.

But that's a different topic.......the draft is something I've generally always been pretty good at...

Hey Dirk...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3177285&postcount=1099

You were saying...

BigChiefFan
12-16-2007, 09:54 PM
I'm not sold on any of our starters in the secondary. Surtain has mailed it in once he got the big pay day from the Chiefs. He's been a disappointment. Law has been helter skelter. One minute he looks very good, the next he's wearing banana peels for cleats. Father time is catching up with Law.

Pollard absolutely sucks ass in coverage, especially on the long bomb. Pollard is good in run support, but damn he better start improving his coverage skills or it's another bad 2nd round pick. I remember saying Bernard who on draft day, I'm starting to think it's another screw up from the FO.

Page considering he's a 7th rounder, he's played better than where he was drafted at, but he's still a liability, but I give him the nod over Pollard, as far as play. Page has shown flashes-now he needs to play consistant.

The back-ups could and most likely should be replaced. Sapp has played better, but isn't worth re-signing to big money. Patterson looked good in preseason and hasn't done a damn thing since-I know he's had some injuries, but earn your check out there. Brackenridge has been the one player who let's it all hang out. He's made some plays, but I think he's a dimeback for most teams. All in all, we aren't anywhere close to where we need to be in the secondary and haven't since Hasty's days of playing. It's time to put some speed back in the secondary and actually get some guys with coverage skills. Go figure.

AggressiveNapkin
12-16-2007, 09:54 PM
I think besides fixing the Offensive Line this is probably the most flawed part of our team. First you have Law- who is too slow that he couldn't beat Kris Wilson in a foot race.

You have Surtain who has seriously digressed since he landed here. Not only does he have terrible hands but he can't seem to ever figure out the coverage we are running.

The safeties are still young but are still making rookie mistakes.

Don't even get me started on Wesley. The guy still bites on every play fake possibly. You would think he just got in the league because it gets him all the time. When he is in the game the other team might as well go deep because Wesley more than likely will blow the assignment

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:54 PM
Perhaps, but they haven't amount to jack shit thus far.

I just call it as I see it.

Wait Cromartie hasn't amounted to jack shit? excuse me?

Coach
12-16-2007, 09:55 PM
That was a full on ****up, I didn't even think about it but the Big 10 has severe issues with the Pac and SEC.

But that's a different topic.......the draft is something I've generally always been pretty good at...

Hey Dirk...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3177285&postcount=1099

You were saying...

Heh, I know, I just couldn't pass up the oppiturnity. :D

As for the draft, you may be generally good at, but thus far, the statistics, regardless of who's playing, who's hurt, who sucks, who's producing, both Pollard and Page are over the top over Simpson and Youtube or whatever the hell his name is.

Smed1065
12-16-2007, 09:56 PM
1 of 40 is a good average, even if you support USC bandwagon for 10 years...........

Coach
12-16-2007, 09:56 PM
Wait Cromartie hasn't amounted to jack shit? excuse me?

I take that back. Cromartie has done well. I mistaken that name for Youtube or whatever that name is.

Cromartie was a high reward, but at the time, was high risk as well becuase of his injury at the time.

Mecca
12-16-2007, 09:58 PM
Looking back on that draft.......everyone laughed at the Bills for the Whitner pick.....Donte Whitner has been damn good so maybe they got the last laugh.

the Talking Can
12-16-2007, 09:58 PM
yeah, the problem is that we just don't need starters....we need backups too...

we have no depth at the OL, WR, LB, CB, Safety....ouch

RedThat
12-16-2007, 10:01 PM
yeah, the problem is that we just don't need starters....we need backups too...

we have no depth at the OL, WR, LB, CB, Safety....ouch

that's pretty serious

Mecca
12-16-2007, 10:06 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3177479&postcount=1189

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3177886&postcount=1207

Hrm...

BigChiefFan
12-16-2007, 10:06 PM
yeah, the problem is that we just don't need starters....we need backups too...

we have no depth at the OL, WR, LB, CB, Safety....ouchSome of starters would become the back-ups, if we actually have a good draft. Players like Pollard, Napolean, Ron Edwards, etc...

I don't see it happening.