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View Full Version : 4 games in, how is Brodie progressing as a QB


Wile_E_Coyote
12-17-2007, 11:18 AM
poll
scale of one to ten

talastan
12-17-2007, 11:23 AM
I'd give him an eight. With the crappy O-Line in front of him he's doing pretty well for throwing the few interceptions that he has. I don't think is going to pull a Tom Brady development, but with the situation he's in he's coming along. Just need the WR's to catch the damn ball!! Put in SIPPIOOOOO!!

Wile_E_Coyote
12-17-2007, 11:26 AM
I gave him a 7. I figured following Huard I might not be able to judge him fairly(overly happy) & lowered the grade some

StcChief
12-17-2007, 11:29 AM
Solid 7 considering what he has to work with at Oline.

Mr. Laz
12-17-2007, 11:29 AM
7 ... he's showing signs, but nothing to really rave about.


got to consider who's coaching him too though

Cochise
12-17-2007, 11:44 AM
When he gets protection he looks pretty good, IMO.

Without all the dropped passes I think we'd be raving about him more.

I meant to click 7 but voted 8 on accident.

KCChiefsFan88
12-17-2007, 11:56 AM
I gave him a 4 mostly because he hasn't done enough to justify the Chiefs passing on a Ryan, Brohm or Woodson should the Chiefs be in a position to draft any of those QBs in the first round.

Sure-Oz
12-17-2007, 11:58 AM
I'd give him a 5 right now, considering he looked dead scared in pre-season, i think the game will slow down for him wth more game.

GarySpFc
12-17-2007, 12:11 PM
There is a very good article in the Star today by Kent Babb. Both Kennison and Tony Gonzalez had positive things to say about Brodie.

GarySpFc
12-17-2007, 12:13 PM
I gave him a 4 mostly because he hasn't done enough to justify the Chiefs passing on a Ryan, Brohm or Woodson should the Chiefs be in a position to draft any of those QBs in the first round.

You can forget the Chiefs drafting one of those quarterbacks. It simply isn't going to happen, because they have other needs. Go read the article by Kent Babb in the Star, and note comments by Gonzalez, Kennison, and Edwards.

Manila-Chief
12-17-2007, 12:19 PM
I didn't vote coz I do not have enough info. I'm afraid I'd be too much of a homer if I vote. I want him to do really well, but, so far, he has not proved one way or the other what he will be???

Hope he does well coz I don't see a "can't miss" QB in the draft ... seems to me there are no Elway, Manning, etc in the draft this year. Sure one of the QB's could turn out to be fantasic ... but, which one?

Hope he does well so we have the opportunity to go after an OLT.

ChiefsCountry
12-17-2007, 12:24 PM
I think he looks pretty good considering what he has around him. The first play of the game yesterday showed he has major talent. Avoid the rush, got hit and found Bowe in stride. Bowe dropped a sure touchdown.

InChiefsHell
12-17-2007, 12:28 PM
He looks as good as we could hope for a young guy with a crappy O line. I'd give him a 7. Room for improvement, but seems like he has the toughness and intelligence to make the improvements he needs. With a good O Line and one more good target besides Bowe and Gonzo, and he could be Trent-ish for us in a year.

HemiEd
12-17-2007, 12:28 PM
I think a solid 8, yesterday he showed me a lot. He was very upset with himself on that last interception, I am sure that taught him something. It takes time, and I think he has all the tools. He is NOT fragile. Vanden Bosh drove him into the ground, and could have easily seperated a shoulder or worse, but he just popped up kept going like nothing happened. I love this guy, he is going to be good IMO.

Wile_E_Coyote
12-17-2007, 12:30 PM
Croyle, Bowe & Kolby are keeping me interested in watching the offense

talastan
12-17-2007, 01:00 PM
Croyle, Bowe & Kolby are keeping me interested in watching the offense
Agreed this game was enjoyable to watch simply because of the youth. Croyle, if given a decent O-line this offseason, is going to prove himself as the starter for this franchise IMO. He's already showed a calm steadyness behind what would be for most new starters a miserable situation.

trndobrd
12-17-2007, 01:20 PM
This was the first game where they didn't seem to be coddling him with the play calling. I agree that some dropped passes and penalties (holding on Kennison reception) are not helping him.

The game doesn't seem to be happening too fast for him and despite everything doesn't seem bewildered by what is happening around him.

RustShack
12-17-2007, 01:25 PM
Piss poor coaching staff, horrible line, receivers droping balls, still has great flashes, I'd say he's looking pretty damn good. Especially when you look at how a lot of other QB's do when they have only started four games. I think hes improving every week.

C-Mac
12-17-2007, 01:35 PM
Looked real good especially when compared to Romo and Brady this week.

FAX
12-17-2007, 02:12 PM
I'm listening with mild interest to that idiot on 810 talking about how we need to either trade our 2nd round pick for Pennington/McNabb/OldExperiencedGuy or pick a QB in the first round. It's sad.

I voted "8" because I haven't seen anything to indicate that he doesn't have the tools. If we had won a game or two, I still would have voted "8", which leads me to the point of this post thing.

A lot of fans (and I mean a whole bunch) rank QBs (young or otherwise) based solely on wins/losses. This is what that KK guy is doing. Frankly, I would love to see Croyle with a win or two under his belt at this stage. On the other hand, life abhors a straight line and things will turn around for him eventually - whether it's on this team or some other. When it does, this experience will be invaluable to him. In the meantime (were I the coach), I would be far more concerned with the fumbles, drops, and penalties. These indicate a lack of discipline and concentration team-wide.

This team can be fixed. I believe that. If we have a great draft, we might see a solid team in 2 to 3 years. Unfortunately, I am unconvinced that Herm can fix it. I'm afraid that his drafting is overrated. His player development skills are overrated. His abilities as a motivator are overrated. And, his philosophy is archaic. That means that Croyle is in a very tough situation. Very tough. The fans will turn on him, the media will turn on him, and Herm will be covering his own ass along the way. It's going to be a long, difficult road for him.

FAX

chiefsfan1963
12-17-2007, 02:13 PM
needs more playing time before I can come to any conclusions. I still say we draft another QB in the later rounds.

BigMeatballDave
12-17-2007, 03:20 PM
I gave him a 4 mostly because he hasn't done enough to justify the Chiefs passing on a Ryan, Brohm or Woodson should the Chiefs be in a position to draft any of those QBs in the first round.Retard.

FAX
12-17-2007, 03:25 PM
There is a very good article in the Star today by Kent Babb. Both Kennison and Tony Gonzalez had positive things to say about Brodie.

Hmmm. I've been looking for this article and can't seem to locate it, Mr. GarySpFc. Do you have a link thing?

FAX

Micjones
12-17-2007, 03:25 PM
I gave him a 4 mostly because he hasn't done enough to justify the Chiefs passing on a Ryan, Brohm or Woodson should the Chiefs be in a position to draft any of those QBs in the first round.

Exactly...

I wonder what people are seeing.

the Talking Can
12-17-2007, 03:28 PM
Hmmm. I've been looking for this article and can't seem to locate it, Mr. GarySpFc. Do you have a link thing?

FAX
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=176801

FAX
12-17-2007, 03:29 PM
Exactly...

I wonder what people are seeing.

Good arm. Can makes all the throws. Good decision-making given his tenure. Calm and collected. Competitive. Tough. Makes the reads. Stuff like that.

FAX

the Talking Can
12-17-2007, 03:30 PM
the only thing that matters right now is how is he progressing from game to game...winning is irrelevant, as is comparing to Farve and Marino...

is he getting better?....yes, obviously

FAX
12-17-2007, 03:31 PM
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=176801

Thanks, Mr. the Talking Can.

FAX

trndobrd
12-17-2007, 03:33 PM
the only thing that matters right now is how is he progressing from game to game...winning is irrelevant, as is comparing to Farve and Marino...

is he getting better?....yes, obviously


I agree, although you won't see him take it to the level of SB champion until the Chiefs trade him away for a 4th round pick and a washed up Cornerback.

Tribal Warfare
12-17-2007, 03:38 PM
I gave him an 8, with the O-line and coaching he's working with.

Mr. Laz
12-17-2007, 03:43 PM
I gave him an 8, with the O-line and coaching he's working with.
yep ..... the real question should be "How much better would Brodie's progression have been on a real team with real coaching?"

Fish
12-17-2007, 03:46 PM
I gave him a 4 mostly because he hasn't done enough to justify the Chiefs passing on a Ryan, Brohm or Woodson should the Chiefs be in a position to draft any of those QBs in the first round.

You're grading how Brodie has done this year on the basis of who you think might be available in next year's draft?

Somethin's a matter with your brain..........

Brock
12-17-2007, 03:46 PM
I like him. I feared he was made of glass, but he seems to be holding up against some pretty rough treatment.

Micjones
12-17-2007, 03:46 PM
Good arm. Can makes all the throws. Good decision-making given his tenure. Calm and collected. Competitive. Tough. Makes the reads. Stuff like that.

FAX

Ryan Leaf had a live arm.
I'm not impressed with that.

He isn't playing well enough at this stage to warrant us handing the keys to him.

He simply hasn't put the big game together yet.
And he's had opportunities.

I'll give him 2 more games before I make up my mind, but unless he shows up big I think they need to consider a Derek Anderson or Matt Ryan.

talastan
12-17-2007, 03:54 PM
yep ..... the real question should be "How much better would Brodie's progression have been on a real team with real coaching?"
Agreed!! Get him someone that can block for him and he'll surprise all of you.

beer bacon
12-17-2007, 03:54 PM
Ryan Leaf had a live arm.
I'm not impressed with that.

He isn't playing well enough at this stage to warrant us handing the keys to him.

He simply hasn't put the big game together yet.
And he's had opportunities.

I'll give him 2 more games before I make up my mind, but unless he shows up big I think they need to consider a Derek Anderson or Matt Ryan.

Clearly, Chad Pennington is the answer. If a QB doesn't put up Brady-esque his first four games then you know he is a flop!

Coach
12-17-2007, 03:55 PM
Ryan Leaf had a live arm.
I'm not impressed with that.

He isn't playing well enough at this stage to warrant us handing the keys to him.

He simply hasn't put the big game together yet.
And he's had opportunities.

I'll give him 2 more games before I make up my mind, but unless he shows up big I think they need to consider a Derek Anderson or Matt Ryan.

FWIW, it does take a QB a whole season to season and half to figure out how exactly good he could be.

Factor in the awful line protection, and the coaching staff. If we have an ACTUAL coaching staff who knows what the **** they're doing, perhaps Croyle could be better.

Claynus
12-17-2007, 04:00 PM
I can't believe people aren't being patient with Brodie. He needs to be the starter for a full 16 games next year before we even think about going after another QB.

BigMeatballDave
12-17-2007, 04:00 PM
Ryan Leaf had a live arm.
I'm not impressed with that.

He isn't playing well enough at this stage to warrant us handing the keys to him.

He simply hasn't put the big game together yet.
And he's had opportunities.

I'll give him 2 more games before I make up my mind, but unless he shows up big I think they need to consider a Derek Anderson or Matt Ryan.
:rolleyes:

BigMeatballDave
12-17-2007, 04:02 PM
Ryan Leaf had a live arm.
I'm not impressed with that.

He isn't playing well enough at this stage to warrant us handing the keys to him.

He simply hasn't put the big game together yet.
And he's had opportunities.

I'll give him 2 more games before I make up my mind, but unless he shows up big I think they need to consider a Derek Anderson or Matt Ryan.This may be THE most assinine post I've seen on this topic...
:shake:

Crush
12-17-2007, 04:04 PM
Ryan Leaf had a live arm.
I'm not impressed with that.

He isn't playing well enough at this stage to warrant us handing the keys to him.

He simply hasn't put the big game together yet.
And he's had opportunities.

I'll give him 2 more games before I make up my mind, but unless he shows up big I think they need to consider a Derek Anderson or Matt Ryan.



Jesus tap dancing Christ, let him frigging develop.

Crush
12-17-2007, 04:06 PM
This may be THE most assinine post I've seen on this topic...
:shake:


I know.


The stupidity of this fan base knows no bounds.

SNR
12-17-2007, 04:06 PM
He's played behind a shitty offensive line with no help from the running game or the playbook. Furthermore, the coach giving him pointers on how to be a better passer was a guy named Dick Curl.

That's like taking a young wine, adding a gallon of piss to it, and it still tastes okay. Furthermore, if we had some sort of device to take the piss out of the wine and allow it to age the proper way, it would almost certainly turn into a great beverage. Or something like that.

Point is, he's been given no help whatsoever from this organization and he's done better than many of us thought he would. I'll take it.

kcfanXIII
12-17-2007, 04:16 PM
I know.


The stupidity of this fan base knows no bounds.

in fairness, chief fans haven't seen a young qb development in a long long time.

i give him a 5. i see things i like, things i don't (mainly the picks). i'm a patient fan. i'm willing to give him next season to develope. however i think derek anderson would make a nice insurance policy.

CoMoChief
12-17-2007, 04:22 PM
I'll give him an 8. Here's why....

He plays behind one of the worst Oline's in football. Brodie in a few games has played better than David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Alex Smith. All 3 Qb's that were 1st round selections (2 being #1 overall) but played behind shitty Olines. Canning Chris Terry was a great idea and should have done that a long time ago.

We also don't have a good running game. I don't think we ran the ball as much as we probably should have on Sunday, and Kolby Smith has showed more promise than Johnson has all season.

His footwork is pretty good and is getting better. His arm is a cannon, probably the strongest armed QB the Chiefs have had since God knows when.

His decision making is the real issue here, which this is just his 4th game starting, and good decision making comes with experience and playing time, which is why we should have started Croyle in week one and which is why Carl is NOT the right man for job while the Chiefs rebuild.

It's pretty hard to evaluate a young QB when the cast around him is playing like shit. That's why it is important as hell to keep Herm away from the offense. His ability to evaluate offense is just as terrible as it was for DV to evaluate defense.

Herm needs to stay away from the offense. Curl needs to leave (what the **** does he do anyways?) and Solari needs to have the leash taken off of him these last couple games just to see if he really has what it takes.

Micjones
12-17-2007, 04:24 PM
Clearly, Chad Pennington is the answer. If a QB doesn't put up Brady-esque his first four games then you know he is a flop!

*Waving to the guy in left field*

Tom Brady's numbers after his first four games:
74 Completions
121 Attempts
6.8 Yards per completion
820 Passing Yards
5 TD's
0 INT

He wasn't exactly a world-beater himself, but he showed promise.
It should also be noted that his first start came 3 games into the 2001 season. This is a different situation entirely...

Croyle's four game numbers:
71 Completions
122 Attempts
5.4 Yards per completion
663 Passing Yards
4 TD's
4 INT's

We needed to assess Croyle earlier in the year.
2008 can't be an evaluation period for him.
If he is to play for this organization 2008 should be the beginning of the Croyle era. If he plays well over the next 2 games I'm willing to give him a full 16 next year. But right now... I'm not sure that I wouldn't take Matt Ryan in April.

Crush
12-17-2007, 04:26 PM
in fairness, chief fans haven't seen a young qb development in a long long time.

i give him a 5. i see things i like, things i don't (mainly the picks). i'm a patient fan. i'm willing to give him next season to develope. however i think derek anderson would make a nice insurance policy.



I know, but I do not see the logic in judging him at this point. We've got to let the guy develop. Just once, I would like to see the Chiefs develop a QB that they depend on every single week.

siberian khatru
12-17-2007, 04:27 PM
This may be THE most assinine post I've seen on this topic...
:shake:

This is going to be long offseason. I was about to lose my mind with all the anti-Croyle posts yesterday ("He clearly doesn't have IT" ... "He needs to scream at his teammates more" ...).

Tribal Warfare
12-17-2007, 04:29 PM
*Waving to the guy in left field*

Tom Brady's numbers after his first four games:
74 Completions
121 Attempts
6.8 Yards per completion
820 Passing Yards
5 TD's
0 INT

He wasn't exactly a world-beater himself, but he showed promise.
It should also be noted that his first start came 3 games into the 2001 season. This is a different situation entirely...

Croyle's four game numbers:
71 Completions
122 Attempts
5.4 Yards per completion
663 Passing Yards
4 TD's
4 INT's

We needed to assess Croyle earlier in the year.
2008 can't be an evaluation period for him.
If he is to play for this organization 2008 should be the beginning of the Croyle era. If he plays well over the next 2 games I'm willing to give him a full 16 next year. But right now... I'm not sure that I wouldn't take Matt Ryan in April.



Like Elway's numbers as a rookie indicated he'd be a future HOFer

kcfanXIII
12-17-2007, 04:30 PM
I know, but I do not see the logic in judging him at this point. We've got to let the guy develop. Just once, I would like to see the Chiefs develop a QB that they depend on every single week.

ya, i agree. had we started him in week one instead of captain checkdown (**** you hootie/gochiefs/kcjohnny, none of you know what you are talking about.), we might be able to make a fair judgment, but off 4 games you can not make that call. its kinda like proposing on the first date. not only does it not make sense, it makes you look like a d-bag. i said 5, because i don't think he's proven he's better or worse than average.

Mr. Laz
12-17-2007, 04:31 PM
I know.


The stupidity of this fan base knows no bounds.

the entire fan base BUT YOU right ......

amazing how people talk shit but automatically exclude themselves from the group they trash yet belong to.

Micjones
12-17-2007, 04:37 PM
Like Elway's numbers as a rookie indicated he'd be a future HOFer

Like the career of one Hall of Fame QB has anything to do with what Brodie Croyle will become.

Why are people pretending that the opportunity to develop, alone, will constitute success on Croyle's part?

Tribal Warfare
12-17-2007, 04:42 PM
Like the career of one Hall of Fame QB has anything to do with what Brodie Croyle will become.



He was given a chance to develop much like the young interception prone Brett Favre

Crush
12-17-2007, 04:42 PM
the entire fan base BUT YOU right ......


Yep, that is exactly what I said.

:rolleyes:

I share the responsibility of the stupidity because I keep getting kicked in the nuts by this team, but I keep coming back for more. I also let my emotions get carried away for this team.


Like I said, the stupidity of this fan base knows no bounds.

Crush
12-17-2007, 04:44 PM
Like the career of one Hall of Fame QB has anything to do with what Brodie Croyle will become.

Why are people pretending that the opportunity to develop, alone, will constitute success on Croyle's part?


I would like to see the Chiefs at least try and fail, rather than see them not try at all.

Micjones
12-17-2007, 04:52 PM
He was given a chance to develop much like the young interception prone Brett Favre

Elway was taken #1 overall.
They had to afford him a different type of commitment.

Favre was also taken higher than Croyle.

Croyle was a Third Round pick.
We don't owe him the same kind of commitment.

Micjones
12-17-2007, 04:53 PM
I would like to see the Chiefs at least try and fail, rather than see them not try at all.

ALWAYS.

I don't think they'd be "not trying" to draft a QB come April though.
And honestly... I'm not advocating that...yet.

See me in 2 more games.

Tribal Warfare
12-17-2007, 05:01 PM
Elway was taken #1 overall.
They had to afford him a different type of commitment.

Favre was also taken higher than Croyle.

Croyle was a Third Round pick.
We don't owe him the same kind of commitment.


Dude, you are not making any sense. I gave two examples of great QBs that needed to develop their game. So your excuse is "well he's a 3rd round pick, so F*CK him"

SNR
12-17-2007, 05:10 PM
But right now... I'm not sure that I wouldn't take Matt Ryan in April.Matt Ryan will be the biggest QB bust since B. Buster Bustyface McBust graduated from the University of Minnesota with a major in busting NFL franchises and a minor in philosophy, and when he was drafted, his first words to the camera were "Super Bowl or BUST!"

Bank on it.

FAX
12-17-2007, 05:14 PM
... That's like taking a young wine, adding a gallon of piss to it, and it still tastes okay. Furthermore, if we had some sort of device to take the piss out of the wine and allow it to age the proper way, it would almost certainly turn into a great beverage. Or something like that. ...

No offense, Mr. SNR, but this may, in fact, be the worst metaphor ever.

FAX

BigMeatballDave
12-17-2007, 05:15 PM
Elway was taken #1 overall.
They had to afford him a different type of commitment.

Favre was also taken higher than Croyle.

Croyle was a Third Round pick.
We don't owe him the same kind of commitment.Sorry, this rationale is plain stupid.

BigMeatballDave
12-17-2007, 05:16 PM
Matt Ryan will be the biggest QB bust since B. Buster Bustyface McBust graduated from the University of Minnesota with a major in busting NFL franchises and a minor in philosophy, and when he was drafted, his first words to the camera were "Super Bowl or BUST!"

Bank on it.LMAO

Micjones
12-17-2007, 05:16 PM
Sorry, this rationale is plain stupid.

Elaborate...

Don't strain yourself BCD.
I'd hate for you to have to offer a well thought out rebuttal.

Clearly players drafted in the First Round are afforded more time to develop than middle rounders... To argue with that logic is to well...show how little you know about the NFL.

FAX
12-17-2007, 05:22 PM
Elaborate...

Don't strain yourself BCD.
I'd hate for you to have to offer a well thought out rebuttal.

Clearly players drafted in the First Round are afforded more time to develop than middle rounders... To argue with that logic is to well...show how little you know about the NFL.

It's true that 1st rounders represent more of a commitment and, therefore, more of a potential bust - in terms of total bust magnitude, Mr. Micjones. But, let's turn this thing around a little.

What is it that you could have seen from Croyle that would convince you he has potential? Wins?

FAX

BigMeatballDave
12-17-2007, 05:23 PM
Elaborate...

Don't strain yourself BCD.
I'd hate for you to have to offer a well thought out rebuttal.

Clearly players drafted in the First Round are afforded more time to develop than middle rounders... To argue with that logic is to well...show how little you know about the NFL.Correct, I'd give a 1st round QB 2 full seasons, maybe 3. That would depend on the talent level around them. Surely, Croyle deserves ONE full season. Not to mention the fact that the current line sucks. Upgrade the line next season, and give him a shot. He's played well enough in this crap offense to warrant a starting position next season.

Anyong Bluth
12-17-2007, 05:27 PM
What I'm going to say probably anything new that someone hasn't already touched on but here's my logic:

You want to bench a QB after 4 starts, when he's shown the ability to make plays

Having no O-line hasn't helped him in being able to take any significant 3/5/7 step drop plays- yet, he has still on occasion shown signs of getting better at his pocket presence and shifting around to buy that second or 2.

A significantly hampered running game hasn't lent Brodie any advantage of opposing defenses having to stack the box, and has allowed them to take advantage of playing the pass with more 2ndary.

Drops by WR's have been a constant problem the entire season, and his number reflect even poorer because of this. I say this, even though there have been time he has been afforded the luxury of having Tony and Bowe occasionally simply play jump ball for a pass, but the drops still grossly outweigh even these positives.

Brodie has had a number of picks, been sacked, and fumbled the ball away, but I don't feel they are at some alarming rate that a young QB, with 4 starts under his belt, wouldn't likely be expected to make. Compared to his preseason play, where he seemed to chuck the ball up there with little regard for the consequences vs NFL secondaries, to now, I'd say he's progressed in his propensity for tossing INT's. This isn't a 9 year vet like Plummer or someone who simply can't ever seem to stop turning the ball over. You gotta give him time, and some of the sacks he took that were his fault when he 1st started, I think he has shown improvement in his pocket presence, sliding to avoid the rush & knowing when to get rid of the ball.

As mentioned before, Tony and Eddie have both had positive comments about his play, and even Shanahan when interviewed before the Donkey's game had very positive things to say. I don't have the quotes, but it was something along the lines of, "He has all the tools to be a top notch QB and has demonstrated he has the potential to be a franchise QB." He then did mention that he thought he graded out as a 1st round talent but that people had concerns b/c of his 2 knee surgeries and his height / weight probably being the only reason he wasn't a 1st round pick."

Take what you want from it, but if you asshats want to bench him after 4 games when he has the ability to become a solid QB, you're only telling me that you don't understand the time it takes for a QB to get adjusted to the NFL. ( We've had other threads showcasing that pretty much every QB worth shit has their growing pains)
Second, drafting a QB right now makes ZERO sense. There are not top flight, once in a decade lock prospect coming out this year.
Third, why the F%CK would you want to draft a QB when you're going to put them behind the same horrible offensive setup, and then bitch that he's a bust if / when he has similar results.
Fourth, the the hell wouldn't you want to take next year to see what you've got in your young QB, surround him with better talent (hopefully) and then evaluate after he has a season to showcase if its time to go for a QB.. If Brodie does suck that bad, what do you think the chances are of this team being much better next year? Not much, so you will most likely be sitting with a high draft position to go after a QB, again.

Any reason you think that Cleveland took an OT with their 3 pick last year and then jumped on Quinn when he slid? Probably, b/c any dunce knows you rarely can find a successful QB in the NFL when he's flat on his ass or laid up in traction b/c no one can block for him.

Repeat after me people... You build any successful O or D starting in the trenches. The games are won in the trenches.

I digress, I'm a big Brodie fan and will continue to be b/c it takes time to groom a young QB- something that many here do not understand b/c as a Chiefs fan we haven't done that since the Nixon era, successfully at least.

Micjones
12-17-2007, 05:28 PM
It's true that 1st rounders represent more of a commitment and, therefore, more of a potential bust - in terms of total bust magnitude, Mr. Micjones. But, let's turn this thing around a little.

What is it that you could have seen from Croyle that would convince you he has potential? Wins?

FAX

Nothing honestly aside from his physical abilities.

Micjones
12-17-2007, 05:30 PM
Correct, I'd give a 1st round QB 2 full seasons, maybe 3. That would depend on the talent level around them. Surely, Croyle deserves ONE full season. Not to mention the fact that the current line sucks. Upgrade the line next season, and give him a shot. He's played well enough in this crap offense to warrant a starting position next season.

He had time to throw yesterday...
And he played well for most of the game.
Things went South quickly though down the stretch.

I'm not ready to write him off yet.
Again... Come and see me in 2 more games.

Coach
12-17-2007, 05:33 PM
Repeat after me people... You build any successful O or D starting in the trenches. The games are won in the trenches.

Yep. As I been saying all along, the skill positions benefits from the line. If the line is good, so will the skill positions, becuase of the fact that the line is doing well.

And if the line is doing piss-poor, then the skill positions suffer becuase of it.

Hydrae
12-17-2007, 05:34 PM
I can not vote because I have not been able to see any of the games in which he has played. But everything sounds like he is steadily improving which is all you can really ask at this point.

We have too many other holes on this team to spend a 1st round pick on a position that "may" be a need down the road. Take the BPAPON (Best Player Available in a Position Of Need)

Anyong Bluth
12-17-2007, 05:39 PM
Yep. As I been saying all along, the skill positions benefits from the line. If the line is good, so will the skill positions, becuase of the fact that the line is doing well.

And if the line is doing piss-poor, then the skill positions suffer becuase of it.


It's the old adage that the only time you hear about an Offensive lineman is when he ****s up is true- sans our line a few years ago, when we would line up in the same sets, basically telling the D where we were planning on violating them, their sister, and any other relative in our way, and still gash them for yards. See: off guard (Waters) or Off tackle when Weigman would pull, or Dunn would chip and seal. We didn't give a F^CK if you knew it was coming b/c we knew you weren't going to stop chit.

Think back to Ray Lewis miked up talking about being double and triple teamed all night, and bitching on the sidelines, even though Waters flat out pancaked him solo on a TD run.

BigMeatballDave
12-17-2007, 05:41 PM
Yep. As I been saying all along, the skill positions benefits from the line. If the line is good, so will the skill positions, becuase of the fact that the line is doing well.

And if the line is doing piss-poor, then the skill positions suffer becuase of it.e.g. 2003 Chiefs Offense.

Mr. Laz
12-17-2007, 05:42 PM
Repeat after me people... You build any successful O or D starting in the trenches. The games are won in the trenches.

repeat after me ...... the performance of the Oline greatly depends on how they are coached and how good the scheme.

FAX
12-17-2007, 05:44 PM
Nothing honestly aside from his physical abilities.

Fair enough. So based on what you've seen so far, what specific physical abilities are you convinced that Croyle does not possess, Mr. Micjones?

Oh. And, by the way, repeat after me ... boom lacka lacka lacka.

FAX

Anyong Bluth
12-17-2007, 05:44 PM
repeat after me ...... the performance of the Oline greatly depends on how they are coached and how good the scheme.


It plays a part, but Jordan Black last year was simply a small taste of the nasty state that is currently our O-line's state.

I can't coach up scrubs anymore than I can take a piece of shit and paint it gold- it's not a gold bar, now, just a piece of gold painted shit.

Claynus
12-17-2007, 05:45 PM
repeat after me ...... the performance of the Oline greatly depends on how they are coached and how good the scheme.

You keep saying this but it's plainly obvious Terry and Welbourn were utter crap, and we've known Wiegmann is done for two years now.

All three, or at least two, will likely be replaced this offseason.

Micjones
12-17-2007, 05:46 PM
Fair enough. So based on what you've seen so far, what specific physical abilities are you convinced that Croyle does not possess, Mr. Micjones?

Oh. And, by the way, repeat after me ... boom lacka lacka lacka.

FAX

It's not his physical ability I'm concerned with.

Mr. Laz
12-17-2007, 05:51 PM
You keep saying this but it's plainly obvious Terry and Welbourn were utter crap, and we've known Wiegmann is done for two years now.

All three, or at least two, will likely be replaced this offseason.
so all-of-the-sudden our Oline got more talented against the titan?

and just coincidently that talent surfaced when there was also a noticeable change in the playcalling?




same ol' story ..... you tell me how wrong i am .... again and again


until of course you realize i'm right, then you adopt my position as if it was your own and pretend like you never told me i was wrong in the first. :shake:


btw you're not the only one who does it around here

FAX
12-17-2007, 05:51 PM
Mr. Laz has a good point. I mean it's true that you can take the best olinemen in the world and screw up your offense with idiotic playcalling. With this staff, it's difficult to tell where the problems are - the doofus chicken with seeping lesions or the rotten, black egg of death.

"Okay. Superstud Lineman Number 1? On this play you just stand there and pick your ass. Superstud Lineman Number 2? At the snap of the ball, you roll around on the ground and act loony. Superstud Lineman Number 3? Your job is to drool and attempt to tie your shoes. Got it? On three!!"

FAX

FAX
12-17-2007, 05:52 PM
It's not his physical ability I'm concerned with.

Perhaps I misunderstood. Did you not just say that you were basing your opinion on his physical abilities?

FAX

Huffman83
12-17-2007, 05:53 PM
Croyle deserves a shot. Give him a decent, young offensive line that he grows w/ that they can at least keep onto the field for more than 3 plays. That way the defense actually gets to rest!!

Then the Chiefs will start winning games.

I gave him a 7. And I give him 1 full year starting.

Mr. Laz
12-17-2007, 05:54 PM
Yep, that is exactly what I said.

:rolleyes:

I share the responsibility of the stupidity because I keep getting kicked in the nuts by this team, but I keep coming back for more. I also let my emotions get carried away for this team.


Like I said, the stupidity of this fan base knows no bounds.
fair enough .... as long as you're prepared to include yourself in your derisive blanket statements.