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View Full Version : Italians Block Construction of New U.S. Military Base


BucEyedPea
12-18-2007, 10:03 AM
:hmmm: Interesting development here. What on earth do we need another military base in Italy for?

Twenty years ago in Vicenza, if you said you were American it was a bit like saying you were a rock star. Now it's like saying you're Dick Cheney. "Yankee Go Home" and "Americani A Casa" are popular chants and graffiti, although usually said only in reference to Americans in the military. The Vicentini call us their brothers, but don't want us occupying their city. They sometimes shout "Fratelli Americani... A Casa." In fact Italian peace activists, just like American peace activists, are accused of being anti-American, and they reply that they want to be friends with Americans, but not slaves to Americans.


Recently, Italy's foreign minister assured Condoleezza Rice, and Italy's president assured George W. Bush - not for the first time - that the base will be built. And the U.S. Congress, unbeknownst to the American people, has approved the funding. But there is a reason for these repeated public assertions that everything is on track. It isn't.

BucEyedPea
12-18-2007, 10:06 AM
Oops I forgot the link. I know nothing about this site...it was linked from another site I visit regularly.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/29388

Adept Havelock
12-18-2007, 10:27 AM
:hmmm: Interesting development here. What on earth do we need another military base in Italy for?

Why, like Aviano AFB to defend the Southern Flank of NATO from an incursion from....

errr.....

:hmmm:

BucEyedPea
12-18-2007, 10:36 AM
Why can't the Italians do this though?

Nightfyre
12-18-2007, 10:38 AM
Why, like Aviano AFB to defend the Southern Flank of NATO from an incursion from....

errr.....

:hmmm:
The killer sharks of the Mediterranean!

Mr. Kotter
12-18-2007, 10:40 AM
Eh....it's probably a good thing.

The Italians, since 476 AD or so....have almost been as inept in their dealings in "military" matters as the French. And the Mexicans.

Amnorix
12-18-2007, 10:42 AM
No idea. Italy is in a strategic location, but northern italy a bit less so with Ramstein a little further to the North. We already have a naval base in southern Italy I think.

Seems a bit redundant to me. :shrug:

Nightfyre
12-18-2007, 10:42 AM
Eh....it's probably a good thing.

The Italians, since 476 AD or so....have almost been as inept in their dealings in "military" matters as the French. And the Mexicans.
The Canadians and Swiss are also likely inept militarily, they're just smart enough to stay out of it. =)

Adept Havelock
12-18-2007, 10:43 AM
Eh....it's probably a good thing.

The Italians, since 476 AD or so....have almost been as inept in their dealings in "military" matters as the French. And the Mexicans.

Well, they did whip the Ethiopians in the late 30's/early 40's...but they needed Chemical weapons to do it, IIRC.

The killer sharks of the Mediterranean!

LMAO

The Canadians and Swiss are also likely inept militarily, they're just smart enough to stay out of it. =)

BTW- The Swiss, militarily inept? I'll offer this as a rebuttal...

That was part of it. The other part was the Krauts knew that Switzerland:

1) Had a mobilized strength of almost a million men under arms.

2) Every able-bodied adult male was a member or reserve member of the military. Every male was required by law to be an effective shot to 300 meters, and kept a rifle at home.

3) Shooting was the national sport.

4) Every single bridge, road, and pass was built so it would be very simple to plant charges and bring them down.

5) It's extremely difficult for armor and heavy artillery to operate in Alpine terrain.

6) An old anecdote: Shortly before World War I, the German Kaiser was the guest of the Swiss government to observe military maneuvers. The Kaiser asked a Swiss militiaman: "You are 500,000 and you shoot well, but if we attack with 1,000,000 men what will you do?" The soldier replied: "We will shoot twice and go home."

There's a reason the Congress of Vienna banned Swiss mercs from being used anywhere but the Vatican. They've always been feared fighters, and no one has been dumb enough to try to take them on their home turf.

If the Germans had won Europe, I'm sure Hitler would have tried. It would have cost the Reich massive casulties, and ended as Masada writ large, IMO.

Nightfyre
12-18-2007, 10:45 AM
Well, they did whip the Ethiopians in the late 30's/early 40's...but they needed Chemical weapons to do it, IIRC.
ROFL I was playing Hearts of Iron one day, and tried to start as the Ethiopians. Damn. Bad decision. It was over in like 5 turns.

Nightfyre
12-18-2007, 10:46 AM
BTW- The Swiss, militarily inept? I'll offer this as a rebuttal...
Fair enough! I surrender! [/FRENCH]

Adept Havelock
12-18-2007, 10:47 AM
ROFL I was playing Hearts of Iron one day, and tried to start as the Ethiopians. Damn. Bad decision. It was over in like 5 turns.

I've got HOI2 Doomsday/Armageddon, but still haven't had the time to really get into it. Looks fantastic, but I'm still having fun with Rome: Total War.

Fair enough! I surrender! [/FRENCH]

LMAO

Now run away, before I taunt you a second time!

BucEyedPea
12-18-2007, 10:47 AM
Well, if the Italians are anything like they're depicted in the movie "Captain Corelli's Mandolin" partying on the beach a la dolce vita, then perhaps that explains it. But some paesano's there see to care about it being built.

Cochise
12-18-2007, 10:48 AM
Calling the Swiss a militarily inept country is one of the craziest things I've ever read here.

BucEyedPea
12-18-2007, 10:50 AM
I agree with ya' about the Swiss AH. That's the model I'd like to see the US based on with a policy of neutrality. I don't even mind the idea of trying to be mediator's even.

Nightfyre
12-18-2007, 10:52 AM
I agree with ya' about the Swiss AH. That's the model I'd like to see the US based on with a policy of neutrality. I don't even mind the idea of trying to be mediator's even.
Hell, let's just contract them to be our military. On top of it, we can contract them to do our banking, too. (Being purely facetious.)

Amnorix
12-18-2007, 10:52 AM
The Canadians and Swiss are also likely inept militarily, they're just smart enough to stay out of it. =)

Actually the Swiss Guard were an elite mercenary unit for hundreds of years, and feared throughout Europe. Eventually, of course, they just became the guards at the Vatican and now are mostly known for looking like circus performers, but still....

The Canadians didn't do badly during WWII.



Swiss Guard:

http://www.traditioninaction.org/History/HistImages/A_006_swiss_guards_04.jpg

Amnorix
12-18-2007, 10:54 AM
BTW- The Swiss, militarily inept? I'll offer this as a rebuttal...

If the Germans had won Europe, I'm sure Hitler would have tried. It would have cost the Reich massive casulties, and ended as Masada writ large, IMO.




Actually, Germany didn't have any particular reason to invade Switzerland, and had use for them in certain spheres including banking and economics. Germany had more reasons than "those hills are tall" for not attacking it. It offered no threat, and had some valid utility to them.

Pennywise
12-18-2007, 10:56 AM
I'd love to hear some of the replies from the 3/325 guys in response to those chants.

Amnorix
12-18-2007, 10:57 AM
I agree with ya' about the Swiss AH. That's the model I'd like to see the US based on with a policy of neutrality. I don't even mind the idea of trying to be mediator's even.

Switzerland has a number of geographic, economic and cultural factors that make it easy to be neutral.

The US had some of those prior to the world becoming smaller when steam powered ships came into being. Now, for good or for bad, isolationism isn't in our best interests. Even if we tried to be, the world really wouldn't let us be.

Adept Havelock
12-18-2007, 11:00 AM
Actually, Germany didn't have any particular reason to invade Switzerland, and had use for them in certain spheres including banking and economics. Germany had more reasons than "those hills are tall" for not attacking it. It offered no threat, and had some valid utility to them.

Very true. It was a sore point for the Austrian Paper-Hanger, but that was about it.

Still, I've always loved that story about the Kaiser.

patteeu
12-18-2007, 11:10 AM
Maybe we should elect an Italian-American as President to patch things up. :shrug:

BucEyedPea
12-18-2007, 11:10 AM
Switzerland has a number of geographic, economic and cultural factors that make it easy to be neutral.

The US had some of those prior to the world becoming smaller when steam powered ships came into being. Now, for good or for bad, isolationism isn't in our best interests. Even if we tried to be, the world really wouldn't let us be.
Those current day conditions hold the same for Switzerland as well.

In fact we have more geographic factors protecting us,like friendly neighbors to the north and south ( except Mexico's corruption has lead to illegal immigration where I think we have a right to say something to them about it) and two large oceans between us and the world.

Other than that, trade is a conduit of peace...and that due to more rapid communications which facilitates trade including transfer of money brings the world closer making war less necessary or it should because the people are in touch with each other. Afterall, it was Bastiat that said: "Where goods won't pass; armies will."

I'm not advocating an isolationist model, like that of 19th century hermit Japan.
I'm advocating less military interventionism; not a cutting of communication and trade. The more the world is in contact with one another via communication and trade the less likely war should be. That's how I see it.

BucEyedPea
12-18-2007, 11:14 AM
Maybe we should elect an Italian-American as President to patch things up. :shrug:
Not a hot-headed paesano though....like Guiliani.
Now a dolce-vita type...I could vote for that.

Adept Havelock
12-18-2007, 02:49 PM
Not a hot-headed paesano though....like Guiliani.
Now a dolce-vita type...I could vote for that.


Corleone/Hagen in '08! They'll make Al-Queda an offer they can't refuse. :)

Hydrae
12-18-2007, 03:14 PM
Corleone/Hagen in '08! They'll make Al-Queda an offer they can't refuse. :)


"Hey Osama, getting tired of sleeping in cold caves? We can arrange for ya to sleep with the fishes instead, whatcha think?"

Adept Havelock
12-18-2007, 03:20 PM
"Hey Osama, getting tired of sleeping in cold caves? We can arrange for ya to sleep with the fishes instead, whatcha think?"


Do you think he would agree to meet Michael at the Cafe Luna?

Hydrae
12-18-2007, 03:21 PM
Do you think he would agree to meet Michael at the Cafe Luna?


Nah, too far to walk from his cave.

Adept Havelock
12-18-2007, 03:23 PM
Nah, too far to walk from his cave.

Eh, send Paulie Gatto to pick him up.

Oh....yeah. Nevermind. :)