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View Full Version : Lakota Indians secede from the USA and create their own nation within the US borders.


Kris Kringle
12-20-2007, 07:44 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317548,00.html

Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S. 150 Years Ago


The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States. "We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us,'' long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means said.A delegation of Lakota leaders has delivered a message to the State Department, and said they were unilaterally withdrawing from treaties they signed with the federal government of the U.S., some of them more than 150 years old.The group also visited the Bolivian, Chilean, South African and Venezuelan embassies, and would continue on their diplomatic mission and take it overseas in the coming weeks and months.Lakota country includes parts of the states of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming.The new country would issue its own passports and driving licences, and living there would be tax-free - provided residents renounce their U.S. citizenship, Mr Means said.The treaties signed with the U.S. were merely "worthless words on worthless paper," the Lakota freedom activists said.Withdrawing from the treaties was entirely legal, Means said."This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically article six of the constitution,'' which states that treaties are the supreme law of the land, he said."It is also within the laws on treaties passed at the Vienna Convention and put into effect by the US and the rest of the international community in 1980. We are legally within our rights to be free and independent,'' said Means.The Lakota relaunched their journey to freedom in 1974, when they drafted a declaration of continuing independence an overt play on the title of the United States' Declaration of Independence from England.Thirty-three years have elapsed since then because "it takes critical mass to combat colonialism and we wanted to make sure that all our ducks were in a row,'' Means said.One duck moved into place in September, when the United Nations adopted a non-binding declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples despite opposition from the United States, which said it clashed with its own laws."We have 33 treaties with the United States that they have not lived by. They continue to take our land, our water, our children,'' Phyllis Young, who helped organize the first international conference on indigenous rights in Geneva in 1977, told the news conference.The U.S. "annexation'' of native American land has resulted in once proud tribes such as the Lakota becoming mere "facsimiles of white people,'' said Means.Oppression at the hands of the U.S. government has taken its toll on the Lakota, whose men have one of the shortest life expectancies - less than 44 years - in the world.Lakota teen suicides are 150 per cent above the norm for the U.S.; infant mortality is five times higher than the U.S. average; and unemployment is rife, according to the Lakota freedom movement's website.

======================================

Does this mean we can finally stop paying welfare for their sorry asses?!

BigRedChief
12-20-2007, 07:45 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317548,00.html

Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S. 150 Years Ago
Yeah that'll stand up in court.:rolleyes:

Frazod
12-20-2007, 07:46 AM
Heh. Good luck with that one.

Skip Towne
12-20-2007, 07:49 AM
I love watching the Indians jerk around the US Gubment. They do a great job here in Oklahoma.

MVChiefFan
12-20-2007, 07:49 AM
As it turns out, they are embarrassed to be associated with the "home of the Chiefs".

Iowanian
12-20-2007, 07:51 AM
Fool their ass. Start Taxing them now.

seclark
12-20-2007, 07:58 AM
native american givers.
sec

Frazod
12-20-2007, 08:02 AM
I saw we give them back Kansas and Oklahoma. Let them keep all the white people who live there as slaves. I see no downside here. :thumb:

tyton75
12-20-2007, 08:07 AM
In all fairness.. the treaties signed with the Lakota are no different than the treaties we have signed with any other country in the past or present.

I think that this could really create some interesting constitutional debates, but we'll never hear any of them because apparently is more important news that Britney Spears' sister is knocked up

chagrin
12-20-2007, 08:09 AM
Of course, if whitey hadn't come here and developed the land - they'd still be living in tents. Now that they have the almighty dollar, they're gone.

Every nation everywhere suffered attacks and war by other nations; it's just the way the world has been for oh, eternity. It's fine with me if they are seceding, just make damn sure the full boundaries apply, immigration rules, tarriffs, import/export, everything.

Iowanian
12-20-2007, 08:09 AM
Take away their casino license and blockade the Beer trucks at the boarder

Pestilence
12-20-2007, 08:09 AM
So wait.....does that mean all of the casinos in the midwest are going to shutdown? lol

Chief Chief
12-20-2007, 08:11 AM
They'll call their country "Casino".

Iowanian
12-20-2007, 08:11 AM
There are non Indian casinos in the midwest.

You'll know those....they're the ones that pay state and federal taxes, and serve beer.

Cochise
12-20-2007, 08:25 AM
Tax free, eh? Maybe South Dakota wouldn't be so bad :hmmm:

gblowfish
12-20-2007, 08:29 AM
Attack with the cavalry!
Burn their teepees!
Take their buffalo!


Aw hell...

Just let them build a few more casinos on the interstate.

Simply Red
12-20-2007, 08:30 AM
Ever found an arrowhead?

Psyko Tek
12-20-2007, 08:30 AM
http://www.mchenrycountyblog.com/uploaded_images/T-Shirt-Homeland%20Security-Fighting%20Terrorism%20Since%201492-708627.jpg

The battle continues

seclark
12-20-2007, 08:33 AM
Ever found an arrowhead?
over 300
sec

Rain Man
12-20-2007, 08:36 AM
If the U.S. took them seriously, I suspect that their future would hold a new fence and a six-week visa process for people to visit their casino and a 90 percent tax on exports crossing U.S. territory. As it is, I suspect they'll be ignored.

Frazod
12-20-2007, 08:40 AM
If the U.S. took them seriously, I suspect that their future would hold a new fence and a six-week visa process for people to visit their casino and a 90 percent tax on exports crossing U.S. territory. As it is, I suspect they'll be ignored.
If the U.S. took them seriously, I suspect their future would consist of tanks, troops and aircraft, and would be very, very brief; kind of like Wounded Knee, only with smart bombs.

Simply Red
12-20-2007, 08:40 AM
over 300
sec
Me too. Not that many. But used to find them in Joplin after a good plowing [insert redrum mom joke] in the corn fields. Easiest [insert redrum mom joke] after a good rain.

EyePod
12-20-2007, 08:41 AM
The name of that country has to be Petoria.... or else I won't count it...

tyton75
12-20-2007, 08:45 AM
what would be important is how the UN viewed it in my opinion.. if it was viewed as a sovereign country; any move by the US to "invade" would be an act of War...


although I have a feeling that no one will think twice about it and the UN won't even bother

Rain Man
12-20-2007, 08:48 AM
Maybe this is just a ploy to become the 51st state. They could call it North Lakota.

DaKCMan AP
12-20-2007, 08:48 AM
Where do I submit my resume to become dictator?

seclark
12-20-2007, 08:49 AM
Me too. Not that many. But used to find them in Joplin after a good plowing [insert redrum mom joke] in the corn fields. Easiest [insert redrum mom joke] after a good rain.
found mine all over missouri. fields, creeks and river beds.
cool hobby.
sec

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 08:53 AM
Of course, if whitey hadn't come here and developed the land - they'd still be living in tents. Now that they have the almighty dollar, they're gone.
Are you f**king serious?

Every nation everywhere suffered attacks and war by other nations; it's just the way the world has been for oh, eternity. It's fine with me if they are seceding, just make damn sure the full boundaries apply, immigration rules, tarriffs, import/export, everything.
If they actually pull this off I'm moving there.

banyon
12-20-2007, 08:54 AM
I think this is the main treaty the Lakotans say the US violated, making the other acts violations.

TREATY OF FORT LARAMIE
September 17, 1851

11 Stat., p. 749.

Articles of a treaty made and concluded at Fort Laramie, in the Indian Territory, between D. D. Mitchell, superintendent of Indian affairs, and Thomas Fitzpatrick, Indian agent, commissioners specially appointed and authorized by the President of the United States, of the first part, and the chiefs, headmen, and braves of the following Indian nations, residing south of the Missouri River, east of the Rocky Mountains, and north of the lines of Texas and New Mexico, viz, the Sioux or Dahcotahs, Cheyennes, Arrapahoes, Crows, Assinaboines, Gros-Ventre Mandans, and Arrickaras, parties of the second part, on the seventeenth day of September, A.D. one thousand eight hundred and fifty-one.a

ARTICLE 1. The aforesaid nations, parties to this treaty, having assembled for the purpose of establishing and confirming peaceful relations amongst themselves, do hereby covenant and agree to abstain in future from all hostilities whatever against each other, to maintain good faith and friendship in all their mutual intercourse, and to make an effective and lasting peace.

ARTICLE 2. The aforesaid nations do hereby recognize the right of the United States Government to establish roads, military and other posts, within their respective territories.

ARTICLE 3. In consideration of the rights and privileges acknowledged in the preceding article, the United States bind themselves to protect the aforesaid Indian nations against the commission of all depredations by the people of the said United States, after the ratification of this treaty.

ARTICLE 4. The aforesaid Indian nations do hereby agree and bind themselves to make restitution or satisfaction for any wrongs committed, after the ratification of this treaty, by any band or individual of their people, on the people of the United States, whilst lawfully residing in or passing through their respective territories.

ARTICLE 5. The aforesaid Indian nations do hereby recognize and acknowledge the following tracts of country, included within the metes and boundaries hereinafter designated, as their respective territories, viz;

The territory of the Sioux or Dahcotah Nation, commencing the mouth of the White Earth River, on the Missouri River; thence in a southwesterly direction to the forks of the Platte River; thence up the north fork of the Platte River to a point known as the Red Buts, or where the road leaves the river; thence along the range of mountains known as the Black Hills, to the head-waters of Heart River; thence down Heart River to its mouth; and thence down the Missouri River to the place of beginning.

The territory of the Gros Ventre, Mandans, and Arrickaras Nations, commencing at the month of Heart River; thence up the Missouri River to the mouth of the Yellowstone River; thence up the Yellowstone River to the mouth of Powder River in a southeasterly direction, to the head-waters of the Little Missouri River; thence along the Black Hills to the head of Heart River, and thence down Heart River to the place of beginning.

The territory of the Assinaboin Nation, commencing at the mouth of Yellowstone River; thence up the Missouri River to the mouth of the Muscle-shell River; thence from the mouth of the Muscle-shell River in a southeasterly direction until it strikes the head-waters of Big Dry Creek; thence down that creek to where it empties into the Yellowstone River, nearly opposite the mouth of Powder River, and thence down the Yellowstone River to the place of beginning.

The territory of the Blackfoot Nation, commencing at the mouth of Muscle-shell River; thence up the Missouri River to its source; thence along the main range of the Rocky Mountains, in a southerly direction, to the head-waters of the northern source of the Yellowstone River; thence down the Yellowstone River to the mouth of Twenty-five Yard Creek; thence across to the head-waters of the Muscle-shell River, and thence down the Muscle-shell River to the place of beginning.

The territory of the Crow Nation, commencing at the mouth of Powder River on the Yellowstone; thence up Powder River to its source; thence along the main range of the Black Hills and Wind River Mountains to the head-waters of the Yellowstone River; thence down the Yellowstone River to the mouth of Twenty-five Yard Creek; thence to the head waters of the Muscle-shell River; thence down the Muscle-shell River to its mouth; thence to the head-waters of Big Dry Creek, and thence to its mouth.

The territory of the Cheyennes and Arrapahoes, commencing at the Red Bute, or the place where the road leaves the north fork of the Platte River; thence up the north fork of the Platte River to its source; thence along the main range of the Rocky Mountains to the head-waters of the Arkansas River; thence down the Arkansas River to the crossing of the Santa Fe' road; thence in a northwesterly direction to the forks of the Platte River, and thence up the Platte River to the place of beginning.

It is, however, understood that, in making this recognition and acknowledgement, the aforesaid Indian nations do not hereby abandon or prejudice any rights or claims they may have to other lands; and further, that they do not surrender the privilege of hunting, fishing, or passing over any of the tracts of country heretofore described.

ARTICLE 6. The parties to the second part of this treaty having selected principals or head-chiefs for their respective nations, through whom all national business will hereafter be conducted, do hereby bind themselves to sustain said chiefs and their successors during good behavior.

ARTICLE 7. In consideration of the treaty stipulations, and for the damages which have or may occur by reason thereof to the Indian nations, parties hereto, and for their maintenance and the improvement of their moral and social customs, the United States bind themselves to deliver to the said Indian nations the sum of fifty thousand dollars per annum for the term of ten years, with the right to continue the same at the discretion of the President of the United States for a period not exceeding five years thereafter, in provisions merchandise, domestic animals, and agricultural implements, in such proportions as may be deemed best adapted to their condition by the President of the United States, to be distributed in proportion to the population of the aforesaid Indian nations.

ARTICLE 8. It is understood and agreed that should any of the Indian nations, parties to this treaty, violate any of the provisions thereof, the United States may withhold the whole or a portion of the annuities mentioned in the preceding article from the nation so offending, until, in the opinion of the President of the United States, proper satisfaction shall have been made.

In testimony whereof the said D. D. Mitchell and Thomas Fitzpatrick commissioners as aforesaid, and the chiefs, headmen, and braves, parties hereto, have set their hands and affixed their marks, on the day and at the place first above written.

D. D. Mitchell
Thomas Fitzpatrick
Commissioners.

Sioux:
Mah-toe-wha-you-whey, his x mark,
Mah-kah-toe-zah-zah, his x mark,
Bel-o-ton-kah-tan-ga, his x mark,
Nah-ka-pah-gi-gi, his x mark,
Mak-toe-sah-bi-chis, his x mark,
Meh-wha-tah-ni-hans-kah, his x mark,
Cheyennes:
Wah-ha-nis-satta, his x mark,
Voist-ti-toe-vetz, his x mark,
Nahk-ko-me-ien, his x mark,
Koh-kah-y-wh-cum-est, his x mark,
Arrapahoes:
B-ah-t-a-qui-sah, his x mark,
Neb-ni-bah-seh-it, his x mark,
Beh-kah-jay-beth-sah-es, his x mark,
Crows:

Arra-tu-ri-sash, his x mark,
Doh-chepit-seh-chi-es, his x mark,
Assinaboines:
Mah-toe-wit-ko, his x mark,
Toe-tah-ki-eh-nan, his x mark,
Mandans and Gros Ventres:
Nochk-pit-shi-toe-pish, his x mark,
She-oh-mant-ho, his x mark,
Arickarees:
Koun-hei-ti-shan, his x mark,
Bi-atch-tah-wetch, his x mark,


In the presence of---

A. B. Chambers, secretary.
S. Cooper, colonel, U. S. Army.
R. H. Chilton, captain, First Drags.
Thomas Duncan, captain, Mounted Rifiemen.
Thos. G. Rhett, brevet captain R. M. R.
W. L. Elliott, first lieutenant R. M. R.
C. Campbell, interpreter for Sioux.
John S. Smith, interpreter for Cheyennes.
Robert Meldrum, interpreter for the Crows.
H. Culbertson, interpreter for Assiniboines and Gros Ventres.
Francois L'Etalie, interpreter for Arickarees.
John Pizelle, interpreter for the Arrapahoes.
B. Gratz Brown.
Robert Campbell.
Edmond F. Chouteau.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(a) This treaty as signed was ratified by the Senate with an amendment changing the annuity in Article 7 from fifty to ten years, subject to acceptance by the tribes. Assent of all tribes except the Crows was procured (see Upper Platte C., 570, 1853, Indian Office) and in subsequent agreements this treaty has been recognized as in force (see post p. 776).

Simply Red
12-20-2007, 08:56 AM
found mine all over missouri. fields, creeks and river beds.
cool hobby.
sec
Yeah, we went outside of Lees Summit one year. Didn't find a trace of flint. Cold and rainy. Hours of frustration setting in. On the way back to the car; my dad bent over to find a solid black deer-skinner. About 5-6 inches long. Perfect conditon. Flint. That may have been our best find.

Skip Towne
12-20-2007, 08:58 AM
If the U.S. took them seriously, I suspect that their future would hold a new fence and a six-week visa process for people to visit their casino and a 90 percent tax on exports crossing U.S. territory. As it is, I suspect they'll be ignored.
Then the Indians would Sioux them.

StcChief
12-20-2007, 09:55 AM
I saw we give them back Kansas and Oklahoma. Let them keep all the white people who live there as slaves. I see no downside here. :thumb:LMAO ROFL

I guess they are going by Live free or Die approach

Mr. Laz
12-20-2007, 09:57 AM
native american givers.
sec
heh

Bwana
12-20-2007, 10:00 AM
Good luck with that..........never happen.

Bob Dole
12-20-2007, 11:20 AM
what would be important is how the UN viewed it in my opinion.. if it was viewed as a sovereign country; any move by the US to "invade" would be an act of War...


Which means what? One of those dandy Security Resolutions?

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 11:28 AM
Which means what? One of those dandy Security Resolutions?
That would be interesting. Would the US contribute troops to defend the Indians from the US troops? I didn't used to think the US was that kind of stupid, but I'm starting to wonder.

FAX
12-20-2007, 11:31 AM
This is the most awesomest thing I have ever heard of. I am 100% for the Lakota on this deal. In fact, if they pull this off, I may go live there and help them build their new country.

FAX

Pushead2
12-20-2007, 11:33 AM
**** you Carl, all because the Chiefs had a bad year.

Bob Dole
12-20-2007, 11:36 AM
That would be interesting. Would the US contribute troops to defend the Indians from the US troops? I didn't used to think the US was that kind of stupid, but I'm starting to wonder.

Don't they have to issue 30 or 40 Security Resolutions before anyone actually does anything?

stonedstooge
12-20-2007, 11:52 AM
I can't imagine the Native American community turning against us. After all we have done for them through the years. Steal their land, kill their way of life, change their culture. And that's the appreciation we get?

FAX
12-20-2007, 12:01 PM
I can't imagine the Native American community turning against us. After all we have done for them through the years. Steal their land, kill their way of life, change their culture. And that's the appreciation we get?

Not to mention the genocide. Andrew Jackson killed more people than Hitler.

I would urinate on Andrew Jackson's grave if I knew where it was.

FAX

DaFace
12-20-2007, 12:17 PM
Not to mention the genocide. Andrew Jackson killed more people than Hitler.

I would urinate on Andrew Jackson's grave if I knew where it was.

FAX

Looks like a trip to Nashville is in your future...

http://www.presidentsgraves.com/andrew%20jackson%20seventh%20president.htm

FAX
12-20-2007, 12:18 PM
Looks like a trip to Nashville is in your future...

http://www.presidentsgraves.com/andrew%20jackson%20seventh%20president.htm

Well, that shouldn't take long then.

FAX

crazycoffey
12-20-2007, 12:21 PM
Well, that shouldn't take long then.

FAX


you should make it into a poop thread, it's a stronger political statement....

Skip Towne
12-20-2007, 12:26 PM
Before the white man arrived, the Indian women did all the work while the men hunted and fished all day. The white man "fixed" that.

Donger
12-20-2007, 12:36 PM
I assume these Indians were intoxicated when they proposed this idea?

FAX
12-20-2007, 12:48 PM
I assume these Indians were intoxicated when they proposed this idea?

The American Indian maintained a viable culture for a thousand years before we started calling them "red devils" and wiping them out. Not at all unlike the holocaust.

I'm in favor of their effort to create their own country. I wonder what kind of government they are going to install? I like the "old guy" method where they young guys would go to the old guy and ask him what to do about stuff like in that movie where that actor who played the lieutenant assigned to the Indian territory outpost and was also in that movie where he was the golfer who got in the US Open married the girl who was also in that tv show with the big spaceship.

FAX

Donger
12-20-2007, 01:03 PM
the girl who was also in that tv show with the big spaceship.

FAX

Renee Russo was in a TV show with a big spaceship?

Skip Towne
12-20-2007, 01:05 PM
The American Indian maintained a viable culture for a thousand years before we started calling them "red devils" and wiping them out. Not at all unlike the holocaust.

I'm in favor of their effort to create their own country. I wonder what kind of government they are going to install? I like the "old guy" method where they young guys would go to the old guy and ask him what to do about stuff like in that movie where that actor who played the lieutenant assigned to the Indian territory outpost and was also in that movie where he was the golfer who got in the US Open married the girl who was also in that tv show with the big spaceship.

FAX
I agree with the "old guy" system of government.

Valiant
12-20-2007, 01:11 PM
Good power to them.. Hope they can pull it off..

One thing I did find funny though was this name on the signatures...

Bi-atch-tah-wetch, his x mark,

FAX
12-20-2007, 01:11 PM
Renee Russo was in a TV show with a big spaceship?

I don't remember if she was or not, Mr. Donger. If she was, I didn't see the program.

But I do know that Renee Russo was in that movie where she was pregnant by having intercourse stuff with the guy who played the guy in that movie where he was a thief but his partner shot him and took all the money and he wanted the money back so he had to kidnap the mob boss's son with the help of the girl who was also in that movie about the crazy author who had a split personality and killed people played by the guy who was in that movie about the pirates where he died but didn't really.

FAX

Dartgod
12-20-2007, 01:12 PM
I don't remember if she was or not, Mr. Donger. If she was, I didn't see the program.

But I do know that Renee Russo was in that movie where she was pregnant by having intercourse stuff with the guy who played the guy in that movie where he was a thief but his partner shot him and took all the money and he wanted the money back so he had to kidnap the mob boss's son with the help of the girl who was also in that movie about the crazy author who had a split personality and killed people played by the guy who was in that movie about the pirates where he died but didn't really.

FAX
My brain hurts...

Donger
12-20-2007, 01:15 PM
I don't remember if she was or not, Mr. Donger. If she was, I didn't see the program.

But I do know that Renee Russo was in that movie where she was pregnant by having intercourse stuff with the guy who played the guy in that movie where he was a thief but his partner shot him and took all the money and he wanted the money back so he had to kidnap the mob boss's son with the help of the girl who was also in that movie about the crazy author who had a split personality and killed people played by the guy who was in that movie about the pirates where he died but didn't really.

FAX

I hate Mickey Rooney. With a passion.

And, I just found out he's still alive. I thought he died years ago.

BucEyedPea
12-20-2007, 01:15 PM
I thought the UN had a policy of not interfering in the internal affairs of other nations?

I also thought these tribes were nations who could enter into a treaty with our nation too.

FWIW, hardly anyone is on their original native land these days.

Rain Man
12-20-2007, 01:17 PM
The American Indian maintained a viable culture for a thousand years before we started calling them "red devils" and wiping them out. Not at all unlike the holocaust.

Did Indians have football? Root beer? The Interstate Highway System? Halle Berry? Krackel bars? Faux leather? Internet pornography? Your argument holds no water.

Skip Towne
12-20-2007, 01:18 PM
I hate Mickey Rooney. With a passion.

And, I just found out he's still alive. I thought he died years ago.
I saw that little fat bastard on Biography the other day. He's been married 7 or 8 times.

FAX
12-20-2007, 01:30 PM
Did Indians have football? Root beer? The Interstate Highway System? Halle Berry? Krackel bars? Faux leather? Internet pornography? Your argument holds no water.

They had some of that stuff, Mr. Rain Man. Their form of football involved kicking a decapitated enemy head around and the first guy to send it over a cliff won. As for root beer, they had much better stuff like peyote and mescaline and things. No highways, but when you're replacing root beer with peyote, who wants to go anywhere? And, every girl looks like Halle Berry when the teepee is dark. I agree with you on the rest of it, though. Poor savages.

FAX

kcchiefsus
12-20-2007, 01:37 PM
That's fine and dandy but if they want to issue their own passports and drivers licenses and renounce US citizenship then where the hell are they going to go? They have to go through U.S. territory or airspace to get anywhere. F*** em. They can stay in their little piece of shit territory and be boxed in.

Calcountry
12-20-2007, 01:44 PM
I thought the UN had a policy of not interfering in the internal affairs of other nations?

I also thought these tribes were nations who could enter into a treaty with our nation too.

FWIW, hardly anyone is on their original native land these days.The next thing you know, they will be buying yellowcake from Kenya.

stumppy
12-20-2007, 02:00 PM
Hope they close their borders and stay there.

I got a couple of swats in elementary school because of THEM. Or rather because of not being politcally correct about indians.


When the teacher told everyone to push their chairs up against the wall and sit indian style I went and grabed a bottle of Gin and layed down by the curb.

Groves
12-20-2007, 02:04 PM
I agree with the "old guy" system of government.

I thought there was no country for old men

Steamboat Springs
12-20-2007, 02:18 PM
I can't imagine the Native American community turning against us. After all we have done for them through the years. Steal their land, kill their way of life, change their culture. And that's the appreciation we get?

That happened to their ancestors. They are no different from you or me. They come into this world in their birthday suits as clueless as anybody else.

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 02:35 PM
That's fine and dandy but if they want to issue their own passports and drivers licenses and renounce US citizenship then where the hell are they going to go? They have to go through U.S. territory or airspace to get anywhere. F*** em. They can stay in their little piece of shit territory and be boxed in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 02:41 PM
Lakota country includes parts of the states of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming

However would they get past being trapped by the big bad US govt?

.

Mr. Kotter
12-20-2007, 02:43 PM
Somebodies are drinking too much firewater, again. Smoking too much peote. :rolleyes:

Keep dreamin', Kemosabe. Heh.

FAX
12-20-2007, 02:50 PM
I see this as an opportunity. The new country will require help and lots of it. They'll need new laws all written down, governmental and bureaucratic structure, diplomatic assistance, infrastructure, and a website.

This could be a fabulous way to get in on the ground floor of an emerging nation without having to travel very far.

FAX

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 02:54 PM
I see this as an opportunity. The new country will require help and lots of it. They'll need new laws all written down, governmental and bureaucratic structure, diplomatic assistance, infrastructure, and a website.

This could be a fabulous way to get in on the ground floor of an emerging nation without having to travel very far.

FAX
I think all of that crap you just mentioned is kind of what they're trying to get away from.

Donger
12-20-2007, 02:54 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers

Huh?

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 02:57 PM
Huh?
You think the US is going to start shooting down planes loaded with civilians and no armaments leaving their airspace?

Donger
12-20-2007, 02:58 PM
You think the US is going to start shooting down planes loaded with civilians and no armaments leaving their airspace?

Sure. They did it on 9/11.

burt
12-20-2007, 03:06 PM
Moving to DC Forum in ......3.......2.........1......

Rain Man
12-20-2007, 03:32 PM
I see this as an opportunity. The new country will require help and lots of it. They'll need new laws all written down, governmental and bureaucratic structure, diplomatic assistance, infrastructure, and a website.

This could be a fabulous way to get in on the ground floor of an emerging nation without having to travel very far.

FAX

Hey...their market research needs are going to be enormous, aren't they?

Halfcan
12-20-2007, 04:21 PM
http://www.mchenrycountyblog.com/uploaded_images/T-Shirt-Homeland%20Security-Fighting%20Terrorism%20Since%201492-708627.jpg

The battle continues

That is so cool. I hope they do succeed from the Union. Sounds like my kind of country.

Bwana
12-20-2007, 04:24 PM
That is so cool. I hope they do succeed from the Union. Sounds like my kind of country.

It will never happen.......

Halfcan
12-20-2007, 04:32 PM
It will never happen.......

Since they have Never been part of the US- they Should get there own country.

Bwana
12-20-2007, 05:09 PM
Since they have Never been part of the US- they Should get there own country.

Way to much oil in the ground in that patch of land, isn't going to happen Halfcan.

Halfcan
12-20-2007, 05:21 PM
Way to much oil in the ground in that patch of land, isn't going to happen Halfcan.

Yeah I know-but I guess I just have a soft spot for them. I also Love that they can stick to the Gov nearly at will.

Frazod
12-20-2007, 05:32 PM
That is so cool. I hope they do succeed from the Union. Sounds like my kind of country.

First, it's secede, not succeed.

Second, they lost. We won. The end.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2007, 05:42 PM
I have to side with the noble native people on this one. After the shame and humiliation they suffered at the hands of the European invaders, who can blame them?

I say let the them secede.

Of course, we shouldn't give them any land. That's ours now.

Let them secede and hover if they are able.

kstater
12-20-2007, 05:46 PM
If they want to secede, more power to them. But I have to wonder, if they don't plan on taxing anyone to live there, how are they going to pay for their government and infrastructure? Surely the USA government wouldn't continue to give them our tax dollars?
And what monetary system are they going to use? Are they going to build their own mint? How will they come up with the funds for that?

Baby Lee
12-20-2007, 05:48 PM
Personal irony alert.

My mom is 3/4 Cherokee, and nobody on her side of the family drinks a drop, never have.
Alternatively, the first full-blooded native american outside of my mom's family I ever saw live was literally passed out in the gutter curled up with his hooch by a hotel when my grandparents [on Dad's side] were taking me to Disneyland [KC-Aneheim by car] when I was 5. I think it was somewhere in Nevada, and it was early July. Gramps said it was one of their tribal holidays or something to that effect.

Halfcan
12-20-2007, 05:48 PM
First, it's secede, not succeed.

Second, they lost. We won. The end.

I hope they secede then!!

We who- you mean the White man?? Yep good thing we shot their women and kids then huh? Giving them blankets infested with small pox was pretty smart too.

SPchief
12-20-2007, 05:50 PM
If they want to secede, more power to them. But I have to wonder, if they don't plan on taxing anyone to live there, how are they going to pay for their government and infrastructure? Surely the USA government wouldn't continue to give them our tax dollars?
And what monetary system are they going to use? Are they going to build their own mint? How will they come up with the funds for that?


Oil, duh

Halfcan
12-20-2007, 05:50 PM
If they want to secede, more power to them. But I have to wonder, if they don't plan on taxing anyone to live there, how are they going to pay for their government and infrastructure? Surely the USA government wouldn't continue to give them our tax dollars?
And what monetary system are they going to use? Are they going to build their own mint? How will they come up with the funds for that?

Tourism, gambling, and trade with other nations to start with.

Halfcan
12-20-2007, 05:50 PM
Oil revenues would help put some money in the kitty too.

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 05:54 PM
First, it's secede, not succeed.

Second, they lost. We won. The end.
It's only the end if both sides agree it is. Just ask the Russians and Afghanis.

kstater
12-20-2007, 05:55 PM
It's only the end if both sides agree it is. Just ask the Russians and Afghanis.

I get what your saying, but do you think the Lakotans want to go down that specific road?

Delano
12-20-2007, 05:56 PM
Way to much oil in the ground in that patch of land, isn't going to happen Halfcan.

It was gold, now it is oil. Heh.

Native Americans have a multi million dollar fund that is supposedly there to pay for the land from the Laramie Treaty.

They won't use the money on principle.

It's unfortunate that an extremist like Russell Means is trying to make himself the face of the Lakota. There are many more intelligent, rationale folks living on the reservations.

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 05:56 PM
If they want to secede, more power to them. But I have to wonder, if they don't plan on taxing anyone to live there, how are they going to pay for their government and infrastructure? Surely the USA government wouldn't continue to give them our tax dollars?
And what monetary system are they going to use? Are they going to build their own mint? How will they come up with the funds for that?
You might want to gather some non-college-supplied economic and govt. information. There are lots of ways to run a country without taxing the f**k out of the population. Now, I can't think of any countries (this one) that were founded that way, but if I do think of one (this one) then I'll be sure and let you know (this one).

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 05:57 PM
I get what your saying, but do you think the Lakotans want to go down that specific road?
What makes you think they don't? More to the point, what makes you think they would have to? Do you really think the US has the stomach to fight it's own citizens right now?

Frazod
12-20-2007, 05:58 PM
I hope they secede then!!

We who- you mean the White man?? Yep good thing we shot their women and kids then huh? Giving them blankets infested with small pox was pretty smart too.

Life's a bitch in the annals of history, especially for the vanquished.

And if you think they did nothing but sit around the campfire like happy hippies, singing and carving peacepipes out of buffalo bones, before whites showed up - think again. Native Americans made vicious, merciless war upon each other for centuries before those evil Europeans showed up. The Sioux in particular - the very same Sioux perpetrating this bullshit - were themselves aggressive expansionists. All the land they're claiming was in fact, taken from other tribes.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying it is.

Delano
12-20-2007, 05:59 PM
Jesus, what would the Department of the Interior do without the ****ing BIA. A constricting governmental agency.. pah.

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 06:03 PM
For the record, I'm all for carving the US up into a minimum of three new countries. I would go so far as to carve it into 50, but that's just crazy talk. I mean, it wasn't like the founding fathers intended for the states to operate as independent countries under the same Constitutional guidelines or something.

Delano
12-20-2007, 06:06 PM
Life's a bitch in the annals of history, especially for the vanquished.

And if you think they did nothing but sit around the campfire like happy hippies, singing and carving peacepipes out of buffalo bones, before whites showed up - think again. Native Americans made vicious, merciless war upon each other for centuries before those evil Europeans showed up. The Sioux in particular - the very same Sioux perpetrating this bullshit - were themselves aggressive expansionists. All the land they're claiming was in fact, taken from other tribes.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying it is.

Just out of curiousity, is there a book(s) you read about the Sioux?

In all honesty, I don't know much about the Great Sioux Nation.

go bowe
12-20-2007, 06:07 PM
Somebodies are drinking too much firewater, again. Smoking too much peote. :rolleyes:

Keep dreamin', Kemosabe. Heh.wow, i didn't know that you could smoke peyote...

i thought it was like magic mushrooms, which are also chewed and swallowed...

the main ingredient in peyote is mescaline, which i used quite heavily in the late 60's and early 70's...

much more effective and easier to use, mescaline was my favorite hallucinogenic in the late 60's..

it was always a good trip and everyone i knew always had a good time...

ahh, nostalgia, a way of life for too many (me included)...

Frazod
12-20-2007, 06:09 PM
Just out of curiousity, is there a book(s) you read about the Sioux?

In all honesty, I don't know much about the Great Sioux Nation.

I've read lots of books about American history and the west in particular over the years. I can't recall the exact title of any books specifically dealing with the plains Indians, but I picked up a lot reading books about Custer. Son of the Morning Star in particular is extremely informative, although it rambles a bit.

Delano
12-20-2007, 06:13 PM
I've read lots of books about American history and the west in particular over the years. I can't recall the exact title of any books specifically dealing with the plains Indians, but I picked up a lot reading books about Custer. Son of the Morning Star in particular is extremely informative, although it rambles a bit.

Thanks for the response.

There is a Native American History class at my school that I plan to take when it is next offered.

Frazod
12-20-2007, 06:17 PM
Thanks for the response.

There is a Native American History class at my school that I plan to take when it is next offered.

I'd check before I took the class - you don't want to get stuck with a semester of bleeding heart revisionist bullshit taught by some communist who thinks all white Americans are the devil.

SPchief
12-20-2007, 06:20 PM
Do you really think the US has the stomach to fight it's own citizens right now?


Well, technically, they aren't US citizens any more.

Delano
12-20-2007, 06:21 PM
I'd check before I took the class - you don't want to get stuck with a semester of bleeding heart revisionist bullshit taught by some communist who thinks all white Americans are the devil.

That's something I'd consider. I don't want a 'Columbus was a saint' class either.

Ari mlat
12-20-2007, 06:23 PM
I saw we give them back Kansas and Oklahoma. Let them keep all the white people who live there as slaves. I see no downside here. :thumb:


ROFL

SCOREBOARD
SCOREBOARD

ROFL

Frazod
12-20-2007, 06:24 PM
That's something I'd consider. I don't want a 'Columbus was a saint' class either.

No, you don't.

And Columbus was a monster.

Frazod
12-20-2007, 06:24 PM
ROFL

SCOREBOARD
SCOREBOARD

ROFL

nlm

ChiefaRoo
12-20-2007, 06:51 PM
Ehh you can't compare ancestors to present day. We don't understand the world they lived in, the primative societies, the harshness and ignorance, no real medicine and the extreme poverty.

Frazod
12-20-2007, 07:08 PM
Ehh you can't compare ancestors to present day. We don't understand the world they lived in, the primative societies, the harshness and ignorance, no real medicine and the extreme poverty.

Quit doggin' on Skip. :D

listopencil
12-20-2007, 07:17 PM
I'm all for giving them Oklahoma. It's just a left over hunk of land anyway.

Frazod
12-20-2007, 07:18 PM
I'm all for giving them Oklahoma. It's just a left over hunk of land anyway.

The fact that it was the very last bit we took from them is quite telling.

KCFalcon59
12-20-2007, 07:28 PM
Free fishing, no taxes. What's not to love?

listopencil
12-20-2007, 07:36 PM
The fact that it was the very last bit we took from them is quite telling.



Yep. We pretty much had to take it just to avoid having an enemy nation existing inside our borders. I wonder where I can get a "Give Oklahoma Back!" t-shirt?

Bwana
12-20-2007, 08:02 PM
I'd check before I took the class - you don't want to get stuck with a semester of bleeding heart revisionist bullshit taught by some communist who thinks all white Americans are the devil.

Heh! Were you in my class at Montana State? Sounds like the same dude.

Jayhawkerman2001
12-20-2007, 08:25 PM
this has to be one of the dumbest moves they could make, because nearly all of them just sit on their porches and wait for their government check to come in every month. if they seceded then they wouldn't get that check anymore, because we wouldn't be bound to the contract anymore. They're almost just stuck, because their aren't any jobs on the reservations, so money is scarce, just what they get from the government. If they did, more and more indians(eventhough a lot these days already) are going to become heavy alcoholics. They're set up not to beable to do anything, which is exactly what the government wanted from the beginning.

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 08:54 PM
this has to be one of the dumbest moves they could make, because nearly all of them just sit on their porches and wait for their government check to come in every month. if they seceded then they wouldn't get that check anymore, because we wouldn't be bound to the contract anymore. They're almost just stuck, because their aren't any jobs on the reservations, so money is scarce, just what they get from the government. If they did, more and more indians(eventhough a lot these days already) are going to become heavy alcoholics. They're set up not to beable to do anything, which is exactly what the government wanted from the beginning.
Maybe some of them would like to change that. :shrug:

If they pulled this off I'd be there in a heartbeat. They'd have at least one software/web developer in their country.

ChiefaRoo
12-20-2007, 09:22 PM
Maybe some of them would like to change that. :shrug:

If they pulled this off I'd be there in a heartbeat. They'd have at least one software/web developer in their country.

This whole idea is just silly. I'm no constitutional lawyer but I have no doubt that succession has been against the law since the Civil War. It's a joke.

Skip Towne
12-20-2007, 09:26 PM
This whole idea is just silly. I'm no constitutional lawyer but I have no doubt that succession has been against the law since the Civil War. It's a joke.
Succession is perfectly legal. Secessation is another matter.

ChiefaRoo
12-20-2007, 09:45 PM
Succession is perfectly legal. Secessation is another matter.

Secession would of been the proper form for my sentence there my square headed okie friend. Thank you for pointing out my spelling error.

Now make sure you get my car back from the detailer.

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 09:46 PM
This whole idea is just silly. I'm no constitutional lawyer but I have no doubt that succession has been against the law since the Civil War. It's a joke.
They aren't a state and they're renouncing their citizenship. :shrug:

The feds are simply going to ignore this and act like it never happened, hoping that it will go away. Just like they do with people challenging the income tax in court. When it gets to the Supreme Court they just decide not to hear it.

ChiefaRoo
12-20-2007, 09:48 PM
They aren't a state and they're renouncing their citizenship. :shrug:

The feds are simply going to ignore this and act like it never happened, hoping that it will go away. Just like they do with people challenging the income tax in court. When it gets to the Supreme Court they just decide not to hear it.

Hmm, if you renounce your citizenship are you still allowed to live in the US without a visa or green card or something like that?

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 09:49 PM
Hmm, if you renounce your citizenship are you still allowed to live in the US without a visa or green card or something like that?
Do you see them kicking out the Mexican nationals? Or ANYONE for that matter?

ChiefaRoo
12-20-2007, 09:53 PM
Do you see them kicking out the Mexican nationals? Or ANYONE for that matter?

Don't get me started on that shite. The Govts. response to Illegal immigration has been a joke and is the reason why I will never vote for McCain or Huckleberry much less any of the Dems.

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 09:56 PM
Don't get me started on that shite. The Govts. response to Illegal immigration has been a joke and is the reason why I will never vote for McCain or Huckleberry much less any of the Dems.
That's what I'm saying. This would be stupid except for the complete lack of stones in Washington today. As pussified as everyone out there is these days who knows where this could lead. The only way Washington can respond right now is to NOT respond. So, we'll see how far these guys can run the ball before Washington is forced to do something.

Rain Man
12-20-2007, 09:56 PM
For the record, I'm all for carving the US up into a minimum of three new countries. I would go so far as to carve it into 50, but that's just crazy talk. I mean, it wasn't like the founding fathers intended for the states to operate as independent countries under the same Constitutional guidelines or something.

I want to take over Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Cuba, and a couple of the northernmost Mexican states.

Delano
12-20-2007, 10:01 PM
I wonder what Means' real motive is.

MadMax
12-20-2007, 10:03 PM
That's what I'm saying. This would be stupid except for the complete lack of stones in Washington today. As pussified as everyone out there is these days who knows where this could lead. The only way Washington can respond right now is to NOT respond. So, we'll see how far these guys can run the ball before Washington is forced to do something.


It is very sad..These clowns running this country are gutless asshats. :(

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 10:08 PM
It is very sad..These clowns running this country are gutless asshats. :(
By rolling all the power up into the federal govt. there are simply too damned many constituents to make anyone happy.

If you could choose one of 50 countries to live in but be guaranteed your Constitutional rights in any of them how f**king cool would that be? Your money would work in any of the 50 countries, too. If you didn't like the way you were being treated you could just pack up your s**t and move to any of the other 49 countries and still be assured your rights.

You could move to Georgia, the Baptist state. Or New York, the Not Baptist/Rape You with Taxes state. Like Communism? California is the place to be!

California wants illegal Mexicans? Whatever. Let 'em have at it. Doesn't affect the other 49.

But nooooooo, that doesn't fit with our current one size fits-all society.

Bwana
12-20-2007, 10:35 PM
That's fine and dandy but if they want to issue their own passports and drivers licenses and renounce US citizenship then where the hell are they going to go? They have to go through U.S. territory or airspace to get anywhere. F*** em. They can stay in their little piece of shit territory and be boxed in.

Do you know how to read a ****ing map? :shake:

ChiefaRoo
12-20-2007, 11:10 PM
By rolling all the power up into the federal govt. there are simply too damned many constituents to make anyone happy.

If you could choose one of 50 countries to live in but be guaranteed your Constitutional rights in any of them how f**king cool would that be? Your money would work in any of the 50 countries, too. If you didn't like the way you were being treated you could just pack up your s**t and move to any of the other 49 countries and still be assured your rights.

You could move to Georgia, the Baptist state. Or New York, the Not Baptist/Rape You with Taxes state. Like Communism? California is the place to be!

California wants illegal Mexicans? Whatever. Let 'em have at it. Doesn't affect the other 49.

But nooooooo, that doesn't fit with our current one size fits-all society.

Dude we've already fought civil war over this. It's a settled issue.

Douche Baggins
12-20-2007, 11:13 PM
Let's invade and take the land back. It's been too long since we manifested some destiny.

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 11:25 PM
Dude we've already fought civil war over this. It's a settled issue.
Once again, it's only a settled issue if *everyone* agrees that it is.

ChiefaRoo
12-20-2007, 11:29 PM
Once again, it's only a settled issue if *everyone* agrees that it is.

What do you think this is, some kind of instant democracy? It's settled law move on.

Simplex3
12-20-2007, 11:31 PM
What do you think this is, some kind of instant democracy? It's settled law move on.
Check your world map from about 10 years ago and see how Europe and Africa look. Those were both "settled and moved on" long before the US was born.

MadMax
12-20-2007, 11:35 PM
By rolling all the power up into the federal govt. there are simply too damned many constituents to make anyone happy.

If you could choose one of 50 countries to live in but be guaranteed your Constitutional rights in any of them how f**king cool would that be? Your money would work in any of the 50 countries, too. If you didn't like the way you were being treated you could just pack up your s**t and move to any of the other 49 countries and still be assured your rights.

You could move to Georgia, the Baptist state. Or New York, the Not Baptist/Rape You with Taxes state. Like Communism? California is the place to be!

California wants illegal Mexicans? Whatever. Let 'em have at it. Doesn't affect the other 49.

But nooooooo, that doesn't fit with our current one size fits-all society.


You got my vote :) This shit we got now only works for a select few..

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2007, 11:39 PM
No, you don't.

And Columbus was a monster.

Really?? That sounds incredibly interesting. Are there any books you can recommend?

And no, I'm not joking. I love finding out about REAL history. Not revisionist crap.

Thanks!

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2007, 11:40 PM
I want to take over Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Cuba, and a couple of the northernmost Mexican states.

You've got include Baja, Mexico to your list.

It wouldn't be complete without fish tacos from San Jose Del Cabo.

ChiefaRoo
12-20-2007, 11:41 PM
Check your world map from about 10 years ago and see how Europe and Africa look. Those were both "settled and moved on" long before the US was born.

Those are primative parts of the world with backwards governments. The US is a mature Republic. We've got a lot of improving to do but fundamentally we are a settled country with an established rule of law.

Frazod
12-21-2007, 12:00 AM
Really?? That sounds incredibly interesting. Are there any books you can recommend?

And no, I'm not joking. I love finding out about REAL history. Not revisionist crap.

Thanks!

I don't personally have any books on him, but if you google "Christopher Columbus genocide" you'll get all kinds of stuff. Murdered and enslaved the natives and treated his own men like shit. Definitely not a nice person.

DaneMcCloud
12-21-2007, 12:16 AM
I don't personally have any books on him, but if you google "Christopher Columbus genocide" you'll get all kinds of stuff. Murdered and enslaved the natives and treated his own men like shit. Definitely not a nice person.


Thanks! I've been doing just that since your post.

Columbus Day has a much different meaning to me now.

Yeesh. He was a monster.

Or a Hitler.

Ultra Peanut
12-21-2007, 12:33 AM
http://i4.tinypic.com/853j9y0.jpg

FAX
12-21-2007, 12:36 AM
If I made a nation
Of my own creation
It would be a combination
Of rest and recreation

It would be against the law
For girls to wear a bra
Unless their tittaws need supported
In which case, they'd be deported

If I made a state
All guys would be straight
But the girls could be lez
If I were the pres

FAX

Dick Bull
12-21-2007, 12:42 AM
If I made a nation
Of my own creation
It would be a combination
Of rest and recreation

It would be against the law
For girls to wear a bra
Unless there tittaws need supported
In which case, they'd be deported

If I made a state
All guys would be straight
But the girls could be lez
If I were the pres

FAX



fax you're generally cool
and i don't think you're a fool

but if big tittie chicks youre deporting
viva la revolution is the battle cry i'd be sporting

FAX
12-21-2007, 12:47 AM
fax you're generally cool
and i don't think you're a fool

but if big tittie chicks youre deporting
viva la revolution is the battle cry i'd be sporting

Hey! Start your own nation
'Cause my population
Is truly apportioned
With tittaws well proportioned!!

FAX

Dick Bull
12-21-2007, 12:55 AM
Hey! Start your own nation
'Cause my population
Is truly apportioned
With tittaws well proportioned!!

FAX

the ladies of your land with small mammary glands
will be laughed at by my nations men when they don't fill their hands
It's all good we won't be too bad; we'll get our kicks
from laughing at your well proportioned little men and their well proportioned dicks

FAX
12-21-2007, 01:02 AM
the ladies of your land with small mammary glands
will be laughed at by my nations men when they don't fill their hands
It's all good we won't be too bad; we'll get our kicks
from laughing at your well proportioned little men and their well proportioned dicks

Ha! Your country will be horny
With chicks flat chested as Sigourney
And giant tittaws that are saggy
Your men will probably all go faggy

Whereas my country will corral
Only well proportioned gals
So let your people yank their tubes
While I enjoy all perfect boobs.

FAX

Dick Bull
12-21-2007, 01:08 AM
Ha! Your country will be horny
With chicks flat chested as Sigourney
And giant tittaws that are saggy
Your men will probably all go Rump Rangergy

Whereas my country will corral
Only well proportioned gals
So let your people yank their tubes
While I enjoy all perfect boobs.

FAX

the boobs you said you'd keep
were are all tiny and petite
my 10 year olds wears a bra
she'd by making fun of you all


as far as us being horny
man that's down right corny
so let me say this once again
women the world over prefer real men

FAX
12-21-2007, 01:23 AM
the boobs you said you'd keep
were are all tiny and petite
my 10 year olds wears a bra
she'd by making fun of you all


as far as us being horny
man that's down right corny
so let me say this once again
women the world over prefer real men

Huge knockers sag and need foundation
Keep them in your silly nation
We'll have great tits on every chest
That pass with ease the pencil test

And some day we'll declare a war
And raid your country and what's more
We'll kick your ass and burn your cities
'Cause guys will fight for perfect titties

FAX

Dick Bull
12-21-2007, 01:34 AM
Huge knockers sag and need foundation
Keep them in your silly nation
We'll have great tits on every chest
That pass with ease the pencil test

And some day we'll declare a war
And raid your country and what's more
We'll kick your ass and burn your cities
'Cause guys will fight for perfect titties

FAX

your theory of perfect titties will take its lumps
when people realize they aren't even bumps
if the pencil test is what you claim on
we'll leave you face down on the lawn

I hope some day your nation declares war
I'm afraid we'll be terribly bored
when you send your nations best
and their tits are larger then your womens chests

don't be sad and dont feel insulted
at what the end of result is
you're pencil test might declare YOUR winner
but where i come from your champion is our beginner





I'd love to chat and rap all night
I've got to sleep it's almost light

J-

tahnikijakaba
12-21-2007, 05:41 AM
I've read lots of books about American history and the west in particular over the years. I can't recall the exact title of any books specifically dealing with the plains Indians, but I picked up a lot reading books about Custer. Son of the Morning Star in particular is extremely informative, although it rambles a bit.

Name me one text book in use today that didn't get its information from the very same caucasion society that oppressed the indian and tried to assimilate them into the "white culture".

As for what the Lakota are trying to do...... I think it is a big ploy to get the name out in the news and the American people to start paying attention to them. I would bet there is going to be a theme part complete with roller coasters with slot machines attached opening soon.

Simplex3
12-21-2007, 06:12 AM
You got my vote :) This shit we got now only works for a select few..
That's the funny part. It really doesn't work for anyone.

Simplex3
12-21-2007, 06:13 AM
Those are primative parts of the world with backwards governments. The US is a mature Republic. We've got a lot of improving to do but fundamentally we are a settled country with an established rule of law.
Europe is a "primitive part of the world"? :spock:

Delano
12-21-2007, 07:37 AM
Really?? That sounds incredibly interesting. Are there any books you can recommend?

And no, I'm not joking. I love finding out about REAL history. Not revisionist crap.

Thanks!

Read it from the source. Bartolome de las Casas wrote about the horrors from first hand experience.

StillHonest
12-21-2007, 07:43 AM
Eveydamnbody wants something for nothing. Screw em

Delano
12-21-2007, 07:46 AM
Eveydamnbody wants something for nothing. Screw em

I think they wanted something for the treaty, which is slightly more than nothing..:hmmm:

StillHonest
12-21-2007, 07:49 AM
They dont get anything for the treaty...christ on a crutch. I suppose they could band together with the mexicans who sold us the Arizona/New Mexico/California/Utah area, the Russians who want Alaska back, and every black who thinks we need to pay them for the slave years and demand whatfreaking ever.

screw em.

Frazod
12-21-2007, 08:10 AM
Name me one text book in use today that didn't get its information from the very same caucasion society that oppressed the indian and tried to assimilate them into the "white culture".

Well, oddly enough, I don't keep an inventory of text books on me, so I'm sorry, but I can't do that. :spock: However, I am well aware of the vast, shameful misery visited upon the Native Americans by caucasians (BTW, caucasians oppress EVERYBODY, including themselves). My point was that revisionist efforts to portray Native Americans as peaceful happy people who never did anything to anybody are bullshit. And unless you're completely ignorant on the subject, you know that.

Delano
12-21-2007, 08:48 AM
They dont get anything for the treaty...christ on a crutch. I suppose they could band together with the mexicans who sold us the Arizona/New Mexico/California/Utah area, the Russians who want Alaska back, and every black who thinks we need to pay them for the slave years and demand whatfreaking ever.

screw em.

You have read the treaties and revisions of the treaties?

Screw 'em? We already did.

excessive
12-21-2007, 09:08 AM
I've read lots of books about American history and the west in particular over the years. I can't recall the exact title of any books specifically dealing with the plains Indians, but I picked up a lot reading books about Custer. Son of the Morning Star in particular is extremely informative, although it rambles a bit.


The best book I've read is called Hanta Yo, by Ruth Beebe Hill.

It's fictional but authoritative. It took 25 years to write. First she learned the native tongue, then she wrote the book in Lakotah, then it was translated into English.

Duck Dog
12-21-2007, 09:59 AM
Oppression at the hands of the U.S. government has taken its toll on the Lakota, whose men have one of the shortest life expectancies - less than 44 years - in the world.Lakota teen suicides are 150 per cent above the norm for the U.S.; infant mortality is five times higher than the U.S. average; and unemployment is rife, according to the Lakota freedom movement's website.

We screwed the Indians bad and I'm all for any effort to help them, be it casinos or what not. But aren't they allowed to seek employment outside of the reservation? And aren't they offered free college?

FAX
12-21-2007, 10:06 AM
We screwed the Indians bad and I'm all for any effort to help them, be it casinos or what not. But aren't they allowed to seek employment outside of the reservation? And aren't they offered free college?

They receive certain benefits, but we're talking about extreme, multi-generational poverty before the casino business took off, Mr. Duck Dog. The reservations are rife with a "who gives a crap?" mentality.

Plus, it's illegal to shoot a buffalo or pull the tail feathers from an eagle to stick in your hair or jam peyote between your cheek and gum or run around naked in public. Anthropologically speaking, their culture got hosed.

FAX

Duck Dog
12-21-2007, 10:24 AM
They receive certain benefits, but we're talking about extreme, multi-generational poverty before the casino business took off, Mr. Duck Dog. The reservations are rife with a "who gives a crap?" mentality.

Plus, it's illegal to shoot a buffalo or pull the tail feathers from an eagle to stick in your hair or jam peyote between your cheek and gum or run around naked in public. Anthropologically speaking, their culture got hosed.

FAX


They can hunt/fish 12 months a year. They can hunt/fish on refuges outside of the reservation. They can do what they want on their reservations. They get liberties with land resources outside the reservations we don't. They can spear and net game fish for the markets. They aren't held to federal laws concerning the taking of game on or off the reservation. That being said, I agree they got shafted, hosed and screwed. I agree we took a culture from them. But there becomes a time when they should accept some of that change and better themselves so that they don't live in poverty, they aren't dying in their 40's and their kids stop committing suicide.

I'm on their side (which is rare for a white in Minnesota). But the time always arrives when personal responsibility must be accounted for.

StillHonest
12-21-2007, 10:51 AM
The brits should demand reparations from the Swedes for the pillage and rape of the Vikings....

Kris Kringle
12-21-2007, 12:27 PM
I'm surprised this thread has so many hits without someone bringing up smallpox.

Duck Dog
12-21-2007, 12:34 PM
The brits should demand reparations from the Swedes for the pillage and rape of the Vikings....

Come to think of it, I think the Romans owe most of us at least an official apology.

FAX
12-21-2007, 12:38 PM
Come to think of it, I think the Romans owe most of us at least an official apology.

Excellent point, Mr. Duck Dog. Quite excellent.

And, it reminds me that the Visigoths killed all my ancestors.

FAX

StillHonest
12-21-2007, 12:39 PM
Come to think of it, I think the Romans owe most of us at least an official apology.

Im calling the Vatican right damn now.

banyon
12-21-2007, 12:49 PM
They dont get anything for the treaty...christ on a crutch. I suppose they could band together with the mexicans who sold us the Arizona/New Mexico/California/Utah area, the Russians who want Alaska back, and every black who thinks we need to pay them for the slave years and demand whatfreaking ever.

screw em.


I guess there's still time to get in for worst post of 2007 yet.

DenverChief
12-21-2007, 12:56 PM
But aren't they allowed to seek employment outside of the reservation?


if you lived 50 miles from the nearest Best Buy and had no mode of transportation other than your feet ...

StillHonest
12-21-2007, 12:56 PM
Oh and lest we forget, Lawrence is still pissed that Quantril drilled them.

Everyone has something to sue over.

Alec R
12-21-2007, 02:16 PM
Just out of curiousity, is there a book(s) you read about the Sioux?

In all honesty, I don't know much about the Great Sioux Nation.

The Sioux expanded rapidly when the horse was brought over by those same wicked white men (only they wre from Spain). The very proud culture of the Lakota tribes and indeed all the plains indians, was brought on because of the white man. Prior to that, indian culture and tribes were more hunter gatherer's and very small unorganized for the most part. The horse changed their culture. Since the horse did not exist in America until the white man brought it over, their culture is derived from European "invasion". When the Sioux united (sic, conquered the nearby tribes), they began aggressively expanding and absorbing other smaller tribes. Because of the horse, they were able to grow in much larger numbers as it was much easier to follow the Bison and hunt the Bison in larger numbers to feed larger tribes.

When the English Europeans finally began to expand out west, they had no way of defending themselves against superior war tactics (as Europeans had refined the art of War with gun powder for about 3 centuries while firearms were a new concept with native peoples) and armament.

There are two sides to every coin. No one is innocent. We are all victims of being human.

Duck Dog
12-21-2007, 02:22 PM
if you lived 50 miles from the nearest Best Buy and had no mode of transportation other than your feet ...


This isn't about what we did to the cavemen, we're talking about Indians. They have iron horses now.

DenverChief
12-21-2007, 02:43 PM
This isn't about what we did to the cavemen, we're talking about Indians. They have iron horses now.


and how do you plan on buying a car when you can't get to a good paying job?

Duck Dog
12-21-2007, 03:08 PM
and how do you plan on buying a car when you can't get to a good paying job?

Are you just playing dumb?

Duck Dog
12-21-2007, 03:09 PM
The horse changed their culture. Since the horse did not exist in America until the white man brought it over,


I never knew that. I figured wild horses always roamed plains.

Duck Dog
12-21-2007, 03:13 PM
and how do you plan on buying a car when you can't get to a good paying job?


One of the first images google brings up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/09/us/09suicide.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Frazod
12-21-2007, 03:15 PM
The Sioux expanded rapidly when the horse was brought over by those same wicked white men (only they wre from Spain). The very proud culture of the Lakota tribes and indeed all the plains indians, was brought on because of the white man. Prior to that, indian culture and tribes were more hunter gatherer's and very small unorganized for the most part. The horse changed their culture. Since the horse did not exist in America until the white man brought it over, their culture is derived from European "invasion". When the Sioux united (sic, conquered the nearby tribes), they began aggressively expanding and absorbing other smaller tribes. Because of the horse, they were able to grow in much larger numbers as it was much easier to follow the Bison and hunt the Bison in larger numbers to feed larger tribes.

When the English Europeans finally began to expand out west, they had no way of defending themselves against superior war tactics (as Europeans had refined the art of War with gun powder for about 3 centuries while firearms were a new concept with native peoples) and armament.

There are two sides to every coin. No one is innocent. We are all victims of being human.

Excellent analogy. I'd forgotten about the horse aspect.

FAX
12-21-2007, 03:15 PM
I never knew that. I figured wild horses always roamed plains.

It's kind of confusing, Mr. Duck Dog. The prehistoric horse actually originated in North America and migrated via land bridge to Asia and Europe. Then, for some reason all the poor, little prehistoric horses died off in North America. Then, the modern horse was re-introduced by the Spanish when they came over here to kill South American indians.

FAX

Skip Towne
12-21-2007, 03:23 PM
Are you just playing dumb?
He doesn't have to play dumb. He's a cop.

Duck Dog
12-21-2007, 03:44 PM
It's kind of confusing, Mr. Duck Dog. The prehistoric horse actually originated in North America and migrated via land bridge to Asia and Europe. Then, for some reason all the poor, little prehistoric horses died off in North America. Then, the modern horse was re-introduced by the Spanish when they came over here to kill South American indians.

FAX

The Spanish killed a lot of Indians north of the border too. I'm pretty sure we could lay blame on many different villains for the slaughter of the Indians. Take the Railroads for example. They put a bounty on buffalo with the intent of wiping out the American Indian's main resource. The buffalo was their food staple, their winter furs and shelter. Nothing went to waste. When hundreds of thousands of buffalo were slaughtered for the bounty money, the herds depleted practically overnight. The railroads had to get rid of the "savage Indian threat" if they were going to make travel safe for passengers.

Delano
12-21-2007, 04:00 PM
The Sioux expanded rapidly when the horse was brought over by those same wicked white men (only they wre from Spain). The very proud culture of the Lakota tribes and indeed all the plains indians, was brought on because of the white man. Prior to that, indian culture and tribes were more hunter gatherer's and very small unorganized for the most part. The horse changed their culture. Since the horse did not exist in America until the white man brought it over, their culture is derived from European "invasion". When the Sioux united (sic, conquered the nearby tribes), they began aggressively expanding and absorbing other smaller tribes. Because of the horse, they were able to grow in much larger numbers as it was much easier to follow the Bison and hunt the Bison in larger numbers to feed larger tribes.

The horse changed the indigenous people's way of gathering food and transportation, sure, but they had a well-developed culture that continues to this day.

I was under the belief that there were extensive trade routes across the continent before horses arrived. Obsidian from Yellowstone has been found in burial sites from Ohio to Ontario.

Here is an interesting link from an author I enjoy that touches on this very issue:

Paul Schullery on Ancient Yellowstone (http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/schuller-yellowstone.html)

ClevelandBronco
12-21-2007, 04:15 PM
Excellent point, Mr. Duck Dog. Quite excellent.

And, it reminds me that the Visigoths killed all my ancestors.

FAX

Umm..."all," Mr. FAX?

ChiefaRoo
12-21-2007, 04:23 PM
Primative cultures always get replaced by more advanced cultures and technology. It's the way of the world. Further for those of you (my fellow whiteys) who are saying "we" did something to the indians. Well guess what?, "we" didn't do anything to the indians, at most our ancestors did.

FAX
12-21-2007, 04:24 PM
Umm..."all," Mr. FAX?

Yep. I was adopted.

FAX

Skip Towne
12-21-2007, 04:25 PM
Primative cultures always get replaced by more advanced cultures and technology. It's the way of the world. Further for those of you (my fellow whiteys) who are saying "we" did something to the indians. Well guess what?, "we" didn't do anything to the indians, at most our ancestors did.
Primitive