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KCJohnny
07-23-2001, 07:01 PM
Preseason is both meaningless and critical; n, it doesn't count in the standings, but those 16 quarters are all coaches have to evaluate talent, try new plays, etc... and for some guys its literally career making/breaking.

So! Would you say preseason is

Meaningless; it is little more than a scrimmage bewteen two teams not serious about winning;

Somewhat meaningful; it gives a glimpse of the team's off season progress;

Important; Momentum established can inspire confidence and build chemistry;

Critical: Teams flat in preseason may start the regular season flat and indecisive about personnel. Teams aggressive and focused in preseason are ready to attack the first opponent.

Please post why you voted what you did.

KCJ

Cannibal
07-23-2001, 07:07 PM
I voted "critical" based on the criteria you provided.

However, I must say that if you know for sure who your starters will be, you should get them a lot of playing time to build timing, and chemistry.

If you have a lot of questions about starters, you should play a lot of different players.

KCJohnny
07-23-2001, 07:10 PM
This is a high turn over year for the Chiefs. I think this preseason is more important than many others for obvious reasons. I sure hope the right guys make the team.

KCJ

NaptownChief
07-23-2001, 07:20 PM
I think it is meaningful for the 1st half when they starters and primary back-ups are playing...Final outcome is irrelevant.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-23-2001, 08:06 PM
IMO, I really don't think its critical, last year the Giants had some questions at key positions, and they went 0-4 in the preseason, and went to the Super Bowl.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
07-23-2001, 08:08 PM
While <b> winning</b> is not necessarily important in the pre-season, there needs to be a certain intensity in the games to begin building the timing and rhythm that the team will need.

Going through pre-season in a lacksadaisical manner only encourages sloppy play and injury, IMHO.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-23-2001, 08:37 PM
I voted 'somewhat meaningful.' EVERY team can get a glimpse of what they've got. This is what all teams have in common the most, IMO.

CG

sorry, I'm a better talker than typer.:eek:

:D

Saggysack
07-23-2001, 11:47 PM
Nobody has mentioned game speed. On every team there is approx. 25-30 positions that are spoken for barring injury. Those players who already have their positions locked as starter use the preseason for getting used to game speed, learning to adjust their routes and timing as needed and learning how to communicate with new players during games with the addition of crowd noise. Preseason is used for a many # of things, it just really depends a given players situation on what the preseaon is for.

BTW I voted, Important

mcan
07-24-2001, 02:53 AM
I think the standings in the preseason are unimportant. But, think about the young guys trying to make the squad. To them it's the difference between hundreds of thousands of dollars or flipping burgers. Some lucky ones make the practice squad, or get invited to try out for other teams. However, those determinations are almost entirely based on their pre season play.

Because so much is riding on these games, if you watch closely, these guys are playing harder and with more passion than most players do in the regular season. Of course, they aren't very talented at this point, and usually the football is ugly. But, it is a hard fought game on a play by play standpoint. It just isn't important to win the games.

Also, as a fan the preseason finally gives me some football. I can watch my Chiefs and take a look at the young guys who may make the roster, but not play. Well that helps me determine how good they will be when I create them on Madden 2002!!!! Also, there is no pressure on the fan. If we lose... Shew, at least it doesn't count. It's like the best of both worlds.

The only bad thing is, I don't think it needs to be four whole games. Odds are that four or five players will get hurt from each team, and one or two might be seriously hurt. They should shorten it to two games. One home, one away.

KCJohnny
07-24-2001, 05:50 AM
Mac, you make a very significant point. Remember, it was in a preseason game that trent Green got injured. He was something like 28-30 passing up til then.

Game speed is very important also IMO. Timing is one thing in drills and another against a squad you have not played against before.

Since the Chiefs have a whole new staff, new system, and new leaders (Green, Cadrez, etc..) I believe this preseason is much more important than any in recent memory.

KCJ
Dying for some football to begin, even in preseason

KCTitus
07-24-2001, 06:08 AM
Critical based upon the definition supplied. Last preseason KC looked dazed, confused and altogether pathetic and it carried over into the season and the rest is history.

Preseason should be used for two things. Of most importance is to get the starters on the same page in at game speed. The second, is to evaluate your talent. Both can be done as has been demonstrated by the vast majority of clubs. Last year, KC did neither.

Gaz
07-24-2001, 06:30 AM
It is a time to try out the changes you have made under live fire conditions. During preseason, you can learn what you did right and what you need to change before the real season begins. We saw how important preseason can be when Gunther ignored it the last couple of seasons.

Wins and losses in preseason are meaningless fodder for fans with impaired arfing skills. Win or lose does not matter, but how you use that time is very important for fine-tuning the team.

Momentum in preseason is overrated, IMO. Sure, it is nice to win some games and establish that “winner” mentality, but that is a distant second to the fine-tuning.

xoxo~
Gaz
Waiting to see how a real HC uses preseason.

Oxford
07-24-2001, 08:14 AM
PreSeason's importance depends on the status of the organization. If you're B-more coming off a SB, then the focus is getting ready for the season (nothing to prove by going 4-0). If you are the Chiefs with a new coach, QB, philosophy et al, then every game is important from the fan interest point of view, psychological point of view for the organization.. etc.. etc. they only ask if you won, not by how much or who you beat.

kcred
07-24-2001, 03:11 PM
I think it is somewhere between somewhat, and important. Agreeing with Otter, DV has to get to know this team, and I do not believe he will in 4 preseason games this year, so it will be an ongoing process. Last year we proved it is definitely not meaningless, we looked terrible in preseason, and it carried over. To me the most important games are #2 and #3, you need to establish the chemistry in your first unit, give them time into the second quarter, and then til the end of the half. #4 game, is a walk thru, no one wants anyone hurt, same with #1, more on the pulled muscle side so less playing time for the starters. Of course, with all the offseason conditioning, this may be less important

KCJohnny
07-25-2001, 06:37 AM
I remember a couple years ago we went to Jax in a preseason game. They started blitzing like it was the SB in preseaon. They also defeated us in the rg season.

I remember playing Tenn close a couple years in a row in preseason. They beat us in the final seconds last year in a close game.

I remember getting our butts handed to us by the 49ers in preseason last year. The 49ers did the same to us in preseason.

Moral: There is more to preseason than we think, at least for KC...

KCJ

KCJohnny
07-26-2001, 12:12 PM
Although it means nothing in the record books, there is no way to convince me that the First PS game against Washington is 'meaningless.'

I wish I could see the game. I'd be willing to pay for a tape copy and postage. Marty's return to Arrowhead! Vermiel's debut as Chiefs HC! Al Saunders' return to Arrowhead! Trent Green against his old team! Lots of drama for a game that 'doesn't count.'

KCJ
Starving for some Chiefs football to begin

PS: At 10 pm CST I'll be jumping from a C-17 at 800 feet with a 120 lbs of combat equipment and about 750 of my closest friends...

...Airborne!:eek:

dollar1
07-26-2001, 02:28 PM
Enjoy the jump Johnny! Those night jumps can get a little hairy.

Pre-season: I agree with almost everything people have said. THIS first pre-season will probably be different. Too much baggage mixed with testorone.

In general I view it as the coaches last pre-test before the hammer falls. First game=first gear. Second game=second gear etc. building, tweaking, gauging, listening all trying to get the team dialed in for opener. Hopefully, coming out of the blocks on all 8 cyclinders.

It's the rolling start. The true momentum comes within the first 4 real games.

BTW it would be interesting to see some stats comparing pre-season with end of season records.

Brett

KCJohnny
07-27-2001, 04:53 PM
Brett,
I had a safe jump (thanks be to God) but 8 of my fellow jumpers sustained various injuries. The rough part was after pulling security on the perimeter all night long, we launched on a 5-hour forced march (about 16 miles with all combat equipment) first in the 100% humidity and then in the driving rain. I am wiped out.

I like your anaolgy of gears. By week 4, we should see some of what we have all been hoping for, and hopefully Green's knee will last.

It gave me the willies when SF destroyed us in preseason and then did the same thing in the regular season. There is some connection between the two, I'm not sure what it is. In any event, I believe this preseason is important to the psyche of the collective team, because unlike the writers who have written us off, I believe the expectations on the team are SKY HIGH.

KCJ
Tired old paratrooper

Zebedee DuBois
07-27-2001, 05:56 PM
Nice bell curve for those results, skewed a little towards important, which should be expected, due to all of the unknowns going into this season, ie. new coaching staff, new QB, new offensive scheme. I think this poll actually answers the question posed! :eek:

PunkinDrublic
07-27-2001, 08:37 PM
Preseason this year to me is very important. For one thing I want to see how good are rookies are and see if DV and Carl drafted wisely. I think we all want to see how the new look offense operates. Another thing I'll want to see is the battle at running back and who will look best running the football. And last but not least I want to see if Snoop Minnis is worth all the hype.

BroncoFan
07-27-2001, 11:54 PM
For the Chiefs, at least as important as the regular season. No real difference when it comes to the chiefs. No realistic shot at the playoffs means that every game (regular season, or pre-season, is a chance to become a competitive team)

Logical
07-27-2001, 11:55 PM
PunkinDrublic

Let me just say that watching this draft's players should not prove entertaining I would guess that Minnis will do alright and the late round guard may be a surprise. Look for the DT from Syracuse to be a complete bust, the FB will get no time at all. The rest probably will get some time but make no real contributions. I expect that Minnis, Blaylock, and the Guard will make the team. Perhaps two others (TE and K-State guy) will make the practice squad, the rest will not make the team in my opinion. Having trouble with the names tonight, guess I am just tired.

On the subject of preseason I would have rated it as almost meaningless if that were a choice. Since it was not a choice I had to go with somewhat meaningful.

Gun and the stooges lack of ability to game plan and get a team ready were evident in last years preseason games, that would be prophetic for the season. I harped on it last preseason and do not expect to have to comment on it this year. Seeing the young guys and the non-stars that are trying to make the team is interesting and probably the only thing of importance for the players in the preseason games other than not getting injured.

keg in kc
07-28-2001, 12:21 AM
I expect that Minnis, Blaylock, and the Guard will make the team. Perhaps two others (TE and K-State guy) will make the practice squad, the rest will not make the team in my opinion.

Jim, I disagree a bit, based on my opinions of the rest of the roster as well as comments I've heard from the coaching staff.

3a: According to recent statements by Dick Vermeil, Downing (the tackle from Syracuse) is in contention (with Steve Martin) for the 3rd DT spot (behind Browning and Williams) on the roster going into training camp. I'm not sure whether to be pleasantly surprised (I hated this pick) about this or to be more worried about the DT position in general. Either way, Downing will be on the roster. He's also the first draft pick of the "Vermeil era" so he'll be given every opportunity to succeed/fail IMHO, although I think in the future most people will probably remember, incorrectly, Minnis as being the "first".

3b: Barring injury, Minnis will be on the team, and probably see significant playing time.

4a. Beisel has been mentioned repeatedly as a probable backup at DE. The staff has been impressed with him and the depth at DE is questionable except for Hicks, Clemons and Owens.

4b. Layne will be on the roster by default. We have no other backup for Tony Richardson at the FB position, and contrary to popular belief that is a necessity, because we will be utilizing the fullback, and T-Rich may be getting significant time in singleback sets as well. We need to have a backup FB on the roster, and Layne is basically all we have...

5a. I haven't heard anything at all about Baber, positive or negative. The Ricks move to TE might be a sign that he is not impressing (or it might not).

5b. Like Minnis, only injury will keep Blaylock off the squad. The staff seems to love him.

6. I've heard nothing at all about Sulfsted, and there's been a lot of discussion regarding the interior offensive line in the last few weeks. Not a good sign, although I thought Alex looked good at the late April public mini-camp.

7a. I don't recall hearing Harts' named mentioned at all this offseason so far.

7b. Ditto for Sands.

I think we'll see a number of rookies on the team in 2001, including an undrafted player or two - Dave Klemic, JJ Moses and Lawrence Tynes are all (legitimately) in contention for roster spots as well as the players I mentioned above. I think we'll see at least 6 rookies on the team, both because of their ability and because we're still in a serious financial bind. Were I a betting man, my money would be on Downing, Minnis, Beisel, Layne, Blaylock and Klemic. Klemic is the longest-shot on that list, IMHO, and I think only injury will keep any of the other names off the 2001 roster. I think the other guys will be practice squad fodder, or home in early September.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-28-2001, 12:31 AM
Kyle,

Who do you think will be our kicker? Peterson or Tynes? Who would you choose?

For me, its too close to call right now, but who would you pick?

keg in kc
07-28-2001, 12:38 AM
I'd pick Tynes. Then again I always root for the underdog.

He apparently has kicked very well in the offseason, but Carl Peterson and Dick Vermeil have both made comments recently that indicate they seem to think unseating Peterson could be a tough job. I'm fine with that because I'm not as anti-Peterson as some of the other folks around here are, and as long as he beats Tynes in camp and isn't just handed the job I see no reason why he shouldn't be our kicker.

I think this could be the most interesting training camp we've ever seen. I honestly believe that every single player will have a legitimate shot to earn a spot on the team, and I think that will highten everyone's level of play. Nobody is a shoe-in and nobody will be coddled, and I think is evident in this seemingly insignificant bit of info from the UWRF page:

There have also been quite a few team rules that have changed with Dick Vermeil taking over as head coach. For instance, on their plane ride to River Falls, starters usually ride first class. This year, it was just the coaches who received first class tickets

No more favorites. The most talented guys as well the hardest workers will be the guys on the field.

chieffanphil
07-28-2001, 08:02 AM
Important .
I think this preseason is very important . This is a team that hasn't been to the playoffs in 3 years and is under a new coaching staff with severial new players . We need to get off to a good start and build some chemistry .
I can't wait until this season gets under way , it is the best time of the year , football season ! Go Chiefs

KCJohnny
07-28-2001, 10:05 AM
I agree with Kyle that this preseason is important to all players at all positions because very few of them are 'sewn up' a priori. And Vermiel has already demonstrated that just because you started under Gun does not mean you'll start under DV. I would actually expect to see a lot of experimentation going on well into September with personnel grouping and situational packages. I also fully expect to see some kind of RBbC although that is NOT what I want (I favor Richardson as the everydown back).

I do not know how many chances a guy gets with Vermiel, I know with Marty/Gun it wasn't very many. Looking at how Vermiel worked with Phillips/Banks and other Rams let-downs, I would expect DV to stay with his 'faves' until the facts just won't let him.

No one is talking about it, but I am really watching the #2 QB position. The #3 guy will not even dress for several games, and there is a BIG chance that Green (like any NFL QB) will spend time on the IR this season. I favor the younger Collins, but would have liked to have drafted a McMahon or Huepel to work in for the future.

KCJ

KCPHILLY
07-28-2001, 06:58 PM
and there is a BIG chance that Green (like any NFL QB) will spend time on the IR this season

There's no more chance of that than any other QB in the NFL.

KCJohnny
07-29-2001, 07:32 AM
There's no more chance of that than any other QB in the NFL.

Are you aware of how frequently NFL QBs get hurt?

KCJ
Not wanting Green hurt; but wanting the best back up for the next 3-4 years at the ready:)