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View Full Version : Romney: "I saw the Patriots win the World Series"


jAZ
12-21-2007, 07:48 AM
Wow. Romney made this comment while trying to explain why we tells people he "saw" his father march with MLK Jr. even though his father didn't never marched with MLK Jr. ever.

I don't think there is a worse comment you could make to defend lying/hyperbole. Will he even win Mass. in the Primary after that?

:shake:

Here's the full context:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/20/528873.aspx

Romney says that it depends on what the definition of "saw" is.
A defensive Romney was peppered with questions today on exactly what he meant when he said -- most recently on Meet the Press -- that he "saw" his father march with Martin Luther King Jr. Recent articles have indicated that his father, the late Michigan Gov. George Romney, didn't march with the civil-rights leader.

Admitting that he didn't see the march with his own eyes, he said, "I 'saw' him in the figurative sense."

"The reference of seeing my father lead in civil rights," he said, "and seeing my father march with Martin Luther King is in the sense of this figurative awareness of and recognition of his leadership."

"I've tried to be as accurate as I can be," he continued, smiling firmly. "If you look at the literature or look at the dictionary, the term 'saw' includes being aware of -- in the sense I've described."

The questioning did not relent. "I'm an English literature major," he insisted at one point. "When we say I saw the Patriots win the World Series, it doesn't necessarily mean you were there." (He meant the Super Bowl, of course.)

banyon
12-21-2007, 07:59 AM
This guy is the biggest phony of anyone running, IMO. These exaggerations don't really surprise me, sadly.

Iowanian
12-21-2007, 08:02 AM
Romney is getting found a liar more regularly.

He recently accused an Iowa Radio Talk show host of ambushing him with hidden cameras, when the cameras and lights are clearly visible, and the candidate before him had also been taped.

He's a complete dickbag, unworthy of being our President.

"when is the last time you lost your temper"
"well, you see, I don't lose my temper..heheheheehe, I prefer to say I get intense"

I'd prefer to hear something I don't like from someone who is telling me what they truely believe, than some waffling dickbag trying to play the PC line they THINK we want to hear.

Baby Lee
12-21-2007, 08:04 AM
Newsflash, Ginsberg didn't ACTUALLY see the best minds of his generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix.

jAZ
12-21-2007, 08:10 AM
Newsflash, Ginsberg didn't ACTUALLY see the best minds of his generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix.
But did he see the Patriots win the World Series?!?

For the love of Joseph Smith, there has to be someone who can vouch for what Romeny saw!

BigRedChief
12-21-2007, 08:10 AM
Now, I saw the Cardinals win a world series live. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=150794

does that mean I'm more qualified to be president?

recxjake
12-21-2007, 08:13 AM
Romney's a silly fella...

banyon
12-21-2007, 08:49 AM
Newsflash, Ginsberg didn't ACTUALLY see the best minds of his generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix.

You really think it's credible that Romney was speaking metaphorically?

ChiefsGirl
12-21-2007, 09:20 AM
Didn't the Patriots win the World Series at Lambert Field?

Baby Lee
12-21-2007, 09:22 AM
You really think it's credible that Romney was speaking metaphorically?
Why not? He was a teenager at the time. He knew his father was strongly involved in civil rights. He knew his father led marches. He knew MLK was a supporter of his father's. He knew that MLK was infavor of his father's presidential run. He knew his father attended MLK's funeral.
It's an unfortunate choice of words to suggest a literal side-by-side walking event, but both MLK and Mitt's father were inarguably marching, literally and figuratively, for the same aims during those times.

Duck Dog
12-21-2007, 09:35 AM
"didn't never" ?

jAZ
12-21-2007, 09:43 AM
Why not? He was a teenager at the time. He knew his father was strongly involved in civil rights. He knew his father led marches. He knew MLK was a supporter of his father's. He knew that MLK was infavor of his father's presidential run. He knew his father attended MLK's funeral.
It's an unfortunate choice of words to suggest a literal side-by-side walking event, but both MLK and Mitt's father were inarguably marching, literally and figuratively, for the same aims during those times.
If all of that's true, then it's hardly as much an issue as it might first seem. I'll cut him some slack, but then again... this thread is about the Pats winning the World Series... So I didn't care much about the MLK think in the first place.

banyon
12-21-2007, 09:44 AM
Why not? He was a teenager at the time. He knew his father was strongly involved in civil rights. He knew his father led marches. He knew MLK was a supporter of his father's. He knew that MLK was infavor of his father's presidential run. He knew his father attended MLK's funeral.
It's an unfortunate choice of words to suggest a literal side-by-side walking event, but both MLK and Mitt's father were inarguably marching, literally and figuratively, for the same aims during those times.


Maybe it's my bias against him (or yours for him ;)), but I really can't see this as anything other than a somewhat artful attempt at damage control by a campaign staffer after they figured out their guy was being a bit liberal with the facts.

Also his analogy to "The Patriots winning the World Series", besides exposing him as not knowing s*** about sports, is also less than apt because while there is a difference between seeing something on TV and attending and the word "saw" is indeed ambiguous in that context, interjecting a figure who was never there is a different matter entirely. The apt analogized statement would be "I saw my dad at the Patriots game when they won the World Series" when his father did not actually attend.

The other hedge, that "marching with" was intended in the metaphorical sense only to mean "struggle with" is pretty weak I think, especially when put in the context of statements made by other candidates like Joe Biden who actually did make the march IIRC. I think it's clear what he wanted voters to think had happened.

Jamie
12-21-2007, 09:46 AM
Didn't the Patriots win the World Series at Lambert Field?

I think Manny Ortiz was playing point guard

HolmeZz
12-21-2007, 10:13 AM
It's eerie the similarities between Romney and Kerry.

Radar Chief
12-21-2007, 10:22 AM
Didn't the Patriots win the World Series at Lambert Field?

Indeed. By a field goal in the final minutes of the 9th inning. It was a hell of a birdie out of the rough, from what Im told. ;)

Baby Lee
12-21-2007, 10:35 AM
Maybe it's my bias against him (or yours for him ;)), but I really can't see this as anything other than a somewhat artful attempt at damage control by a campaign staffer after they figured out their guy was being a bit liberal with the facts.

Also his analogy to "The Patriots winning the World Series", besides exposing him as not knowing s*** about sports, is also less than apt because while there is a difference between seeing something on TV and attending and the word "saw" is indeed ambiguous in that context, interjecting a figure who was never there is a different matter entirely. The apt analogized statement would be "I saw my dad at the Patriots game when they won the World Series" when his father did not actually attend.

The other hedge, that "marching with" was intended in the metaphorical sense only to mean "struggle with" is pretty weak I think, especially when put in the context of statements made by other candidates like Joe Biden who actually did make the march IIRC. I think it's clear what he wanted voters to think had happened.
But the fact of the matter is his father's civil rights efforts were far superior to some one time walkalong.
If anything, Mitt's unfortunate choice of wording UNDERPLAYED his father's bona fides.
Look it up for yourself.
And I'm no Romney fanboi.

Baby Lee
12-21-2007, 10:39 AM
http://www.crosstabs.org/blogs/dan_mclaughlin/2007/dec/20/george_romney_martin_luther_king_and_mitt_romneys_recovered_memory

jAZ
12-21-2007, 10:41 AM
But the fact of the matter is his father's civil rights efforts were far superior to some one time walkalong.
If anything, Mitt's unfortunate choice of wording UNDERPLAYED his father's bona fides.
Look it up for yourself.
And I'm no Romney fanboi.
I don't think your take on it is what gets Romney off the hook. But you did say something that in my mind does get him off the hook if true.

If he and his father particpated (along with millions of others) in a march lead by MLK, but he was in AL and Romney was in Detroit...

I can accept that he marched with (or saw his father march with).

The key word isn't "saw" but "with". I don't think he said "along side" which would be harder to defend in this way.

But I think it's fairly literal to say that you marched "with" MLK, when you marched on the same day, for the same cause and in the same spirit... but just in a different city.

banyon
12-21-2007, 10:46 AM
But the fact of the matter is his father's civil rights efforts were far superior to some one time walkalong.
If anything, Mitt's unfortunate choice of wording UNDERPLAYED his father's bona fides.
Look it up for yourself.
And I'm no Romney fanboi.

I admit, I don't know much about his dad, but I do still see this as damage control.

stevieray
12-21-2007, 10:52 AM
But the fact of the matter is his father's civil rights efforts were far superior to some one time walkalong.
If anything, Mitt's unfortunate choice of wording UNDERPLAYED his father's bona fides.
Look it up for yourself.
And I'm no Romney fanboi.

Meantime, there are Chief fans endorsing the Chiefs all over the country, claiming them and claiming to be part of the fanbase.

Baby Lee
12-21-2007, 10:58 AM
I admit, I don't know much about his dad, but I do still see this as damage control.
Yeah, because 'they may never have actually marched together' is a more alluring headline than, 'Romney is rightfully proud of his father's civil rights record, but he expresses his pride inartfully.'

a1na2
12-21-2007, 11:00 AM
I actually saw the Chiefs play football once ... maybe twice.

Sully
12-21-2007, 11:09 AM
Ed Rooney: What's the score?
Pizza Joint Owner: Nothin' nothin'.
Ed Rooney: Who's winning?
Pizza Joint Owner: The Bears

StcChief
12-21-2007, 11:17 AM
It's eerie the similarities between Romney and Kerry.
agreed... they really are two rich peas in a pod.

I'm still wondering why with all his money he wants the Prez job. Headaches. or why he wanted to be govenor of Mass.

a1na2
12-21-2007, 11:30 AM
agreed... they really are two rich peas in a pod.

I'm still wondering why with all his money he wants the Prez job. Headaches. or why he wanted to be govenor of Mass.

Probably has to do with greed and power.

How many poor former politicians have you seen?

How would you like to work at a job for 4 or 6 years (I think it's 6 for the house and senate and 4 for the president) and then get a full benefit of retirement for the rest of your life complete with healthcare for your family? Not to mention getting the kickbacks from all of the people whose special interests you forwarded during your time in office.

ChiefsGirl
12-21-2007, 12:00 PM
Probably has to do with greed and power.

How many poor former politicians have you seen?

How would you like to work at a job for 4 or 6 years (I think it's 6 for the house and senate and 4 for the president) and then get a full benefit of retirement for the rest of your life complete with healthcare for your family? Not to mention getting the kickbacks from all of the people whose special interests you forwarded during your time in office.

Yeah, I heard Mitt was running for President because of the great healthcare plan. :rolleyes:

a1na2
12-21-2007, 12:35 PM
Yeah, I heard Mitt was running for President because of the great healthcare plan.

Probably has to do with greed and power.:rolleyes:

banyon
12-21-2007, 12:51 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

jAZ
12-21-2007, 01:28 PM
Probably has to do with greed and power.

How many poor former politicians have you seen?
It has nothing to do with "greed". He's a billionaire. Talking about their retirement plan WRT the topic in question is way off base. Power? That's something closer to reality. Ego? That's the the winner.

patteeu
12-21-2007, 03:48 PM
It really bothers me that a Presidential candidate who has been campaigning for months now makes an occasional misstatement that might indicate he's not quite as sports-focused as I am. On second thought, no it doesn't.

WRT his father, I try not to hold it against the son that his father ran against Barry Goldwater, for the Republican nomination, in 1964. That's about as far as the father's record impacts my decision process today.

jAZ
12-21-2007, 08:40 PM
It really bothers me that a Presidential candidate who has been campaigning for months now makes an occasional misstatement that might indicate he's not quite as sports-focused as I am. On second thought, no it doesn't.
You feeling a little uptight?

ClevelandBronco
12-22-2007, 12:29 AM
Probably has to do with greed and power.

How many poor former politicians have you seen?...

I may have told this story before, but at lunch once upon a 1990 or so, I was munching my Chinese or whatever at a food court in Denver while I was reading the left-wing free weekly tabloid "Westword." At some point I looked up and saw a guy eating at the table across from me reading his own material of choice. The guy was Gary Hart.

The former senator and president wannabe was sitting alone eating his slice of pizza or whatever.

The details of the moment have escaped over the years, but the poignancy has never left me. Here was a man who could have been the most powerful man in the world chewing on a slice with pepperoni without any Secret Service, without fanfare as he entered the court, without any of the perks he probably thought would have been his to order at his pleasure just a few short years before.

The guy was just Gary Hary, attorney at law, eating the same $5 meal I was eating.

The drive for greed and power go only so far, I suppose.

Taco John
12-22-2007, 02:19 AM
I've said it once, I'll say it again:

Mitt Romney: The Republican John Kerry

jAZ
12-22-2007, 07:48 AM
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/061826.php

12.22.07 -- 12:33AM // link

Witnesses Back Up Mitt Romney On MLK
It's looking like Mitt Romney might have been judged too quickly on the Martin Luther King business. Two witnesses have now come forward to The Politico, insisting that they saw the late Gov. George Romney (R-MI) make a surprise appearance alongside King in 1963.

The campaign has also posted a collection of citations including a contemporary account from the Detroit Free Press attesting that it happened.

There's one lingering question, though: If the facts do vindicate Mitt Romney on this one and at first glance, this looks legit why did he handle it so awkwardly and ineptly right off the bat? Why all the parsing about what the word "saw" meant, and the business about "march with" being figurative?

--Eric Kleefeld

Fair question...

mlyonsd
12-22-2007, 08:48 AM
I can't wait until the skank gets the nomination and the gloves come off.

Like BD said, there'll be riots in the streets.