Who Killed the Electric Car?

[DenverChief]

Anyone see it? Discuss...

[StillHonest]

Its all OK...they have it in Olathe

[DenverChief]

Its all OK...they have it in Olathe


:spock: huh? thye have an electric car in Olathe?

[Eleazar]

Long since discredited I believe.

[DenverChief]

Long since discredited I believe.


elaborate

[Donger]

GM and economics.

[DenverChief]

GM and economics.


yea...unfortunatly....still interesting that they would destroy the entire fleet rather than have the technology out there

[Donger]

yea...unfortunatly....still interesting that they would destroy the entire fleet rather than have the technology out there

They weren't exactly produced with revolutionary technology. The first generation had lead-acid batteries, for example.

[DenverChief]

They weren't exactly produced with revolutionary technology. The first generation had lead-acid batteries, for example.

yes but they replaced them with nickel cadmium batteries ...just before they destroyed them

[Donger]

yes but they replaced them with nickel cadmium batteries ...just before they destroyed them

I don't believe that is correct. IIRC, the 2nd and last generation had NiMH battery packs.

[Eleazar]

So then, what were the drawbacks of this? Practicality of the engine? Demand? Cost?

[SBK]

Tesla Roadster people. HELLO?

[DenverChief]

I don't believe that is correct. IIRC, the 2nd and last generation had NiMH battery packs.



ah yes my bad....just before they destroyed them...which begs the question why did they need to be destroyed? why not just warehouse them or better yet sell them?

[Donger]

So then, what were the drawbacks of this? Practicality of the engine? Demand? Cost?

Price: They had an MSRP of $40,000.

Size: They were all two seaters, IIRC.

Range: The first generation (with lead-acid cells) had a maximum range of 60 miles.

It really was ahead of its time. I'd love to see a re-birth with Li-Ion batteries.

[Donger]

Tesla Roadster people. HELLO?

You mean the $80,000 two-seater?

[DenverChief]

So then, what were the drawbacks of this? Practicality of the engine? Demand? Cost?


No money to be made by the car companies...they had no replaceable parts other than the batteries, no transmissions, oil filters, oil, spark plugs etc etc....~1,000 vehicles were made all were leases and all were picked up at the end of the leases and summarily destroyed either by crushing or chipping...a few were donated to colleges for engineering students and one to the smithsonian all were disabled though

[Stewie]

Whatever happened to the ceramic engine idea? I believe Volvo was working on that in the late 90s. It was supposed to get 60+ mpg in their prototype builds.

Something about electric cars. While they sound good, there's a huge inefficiency in getting electricity to your house. About 50% of the energy is lost in transmission lines. Plus there are inefficiencies in electrical generation itself. It's not the great panacea people think just because there's nothing coming out the tailpipe of the car. And battery manufacturing is a nasty/dirty business.

[Donger]

ah yes my bad....just before they destroyed them...which begs the question why did they need to be destroyed? why not just warehouse them or better yet sell them?

I don't know. Just over a thousand were built, which is nothing, really. Maybe GM just didn't want them any longer.

[Direckshun]

This is retarded.

Of course we have the ability to create and sell electric cars, and of course people would buy them in mass because of increasing oil costs.

So who killed the electric car?

Oil companies.

There, I saved you 2 hours and ticket prices for an overdrawn documentary that fails to reveal any sort of information that you don't already know.

[DenverChief]

You mean the $80,000 two-seater?

yeah thats what I was thinking....and isn't that a European car manufacturer that makes that?

[Donger]

yeah thats what I was thinking....and isn't that a European car manufacturer that makes that?

They are being built in California, I think.

[Donger]

So who killed the electric car?

Oil companies.

How exactly did they do that?

[Stewie]

This is retarded.

Of course we have the ability to create and sell electric cars, and of course people would buy them in mass because of increasing oil costs.

So who killed the electric car?

Oil companies.

There, I saved you 2 hours and ticket prices for an overdrawn documentary that fails to reveal any sort of information that you don't already know.

Oil companies make huge profits in the generation of electricity.

[DenverChief]

And battery manufacturing is a nasty/dirty business.


and the oil business is not?


http://www.savingiceland.org/img_assist/gen/559

[Donger]

Oil companies make huge profits in the generation of electricity.

Huh?

[Donger]

and the oil business is not?


http://www.savingiceland.org/img_assist/gen/559

Yummmmm. Oil-basted cormorant.

[Radar Chief]

This is retarded.

Of course we have the ability to create and sell electric cars, and of course people would buy them in mass because of increasing oil costs.

So who killed the electric car?

Oil companies.

There, I saved you 2 hours and ticket prices for an overdrawn documentary that fails to reveal any sort of information that you don't already know.

:LOL: :shake:

[Direckshun]

How exactly did they do that?
Hold on, let me think about that one, hold on just a minute, let me ponder that one over, I have an internal think tank eschewing the ebbs and flows of a potential answer to field in your direction, I've got it coming right now on the tip of my tongue, if only I could form it into words, let me somehow create out of nothingness a meaningful answer that might--

MONEY

[DenverChief]

Oil companies make huge profits in the generation of electricity.


ya know I was thinking something that never got mentioned is that electricity is a heavily regulated industry and oil not so much

[Donger]

Hold on, let me think about that one, hold on just a minute, let me ponder that one over, I have an internal think tank eschewing the ebbs and flows of a potential answer to field in your direction, I've got it coming right now on the tip of my tongue, if only I could form it into words, let me somehow create out of nothingness a meaningful answer that might--

MONEY

Perhaps I wasn't clear. How did the oil companies kill the EV1?

[Stewie]

and the oil business is not?


Think about it. You have to mine an enormous amount of metals from the earth. These metals need to be purified using things like cyanide (which would kill your little birdie). I'd go on, but there's more to it than I want to type about.

[Donger]

ya know I was thinking something that never got mentioned is that electricity is a heavily regulated industry and oil not so much

Do you know why?

[DenverChief]

Think about it. You have to mine an enormous amount of metals from the earth. These metals need to be purified using things like cyanide (which would kill your little birdie). I'd go on, but there's more to it than I want to type about.


I'm sure making batteries is a nasty business ...but so is producing oil

[Stewie]

Huh?

There are thousands of oil burning and natural gas burning generating plants around the world.

[Direckshun]

Do you know why?
Hmmm, let me further mine the depths of my understanding to somehow grasp the nuances of the issue, I'm going to need a subtle inquiry to determine exactly which direction the discussion should be focused, somehow siphon down my thoughts into a succinct summation that could perhaps be useful in understanding the--

MONEY

[DenverChief]

Do you know why?


no

[Donger]

There are thousands of oil burning and natural gas burning generating plants around the world?

Very few in the US. Most are coal-fired, with a solid number of nuclear plants. I don't know how many NG plants there are.

[Donger]

Hmmm, let me further mine the depths of my understanding to somehow grasp the nuances of the issue, I'm going to need a subtle inquiry to determine exactly which direction the discussion should be focused, somehow siphon down my thoughts into a succinct summation that could perhaps be useful in understanding the--

MONEY

Are you sick or something? I didn't ask "Why" I asked "How." If you don't know, that's fine.

[Donger]

no

Because we generate most of our electricity via burning coal, which we don't have to import. We have vast reserves. The same is not the case with crude. Well, we probably could supply our crude demand internally, but certain folks don't like E&P on our own soil.

So, we have to import it, at the globally-traded value.

Therefore, setting regulations (i.e., price controls) on a commodity whose price varies is an inherently bad idea.

[Stewie]

Very few in the US. Most are coal-fired, with a solid number of nuclear plants. I don't know how many NG plants there are.

Very few? 30% of our electricity is generated using oil and natural gas.

[Direckshun]

Are you sick or something? I didn't ask "Why" I asked "How." If you don't know, that's fine.
Oh, I'm just screwing with you.

But if you're asking me if I'm in the ConocoPhillips board room when they determine exactly how to direct their heavy-handed lobbying/manipulation of those in power, I'm not. But they're there and this is what incredibly strong interest groups ("Big _____") do.

[Donger]

Very few? 30% of our electricity is generated using oil and natural gas.

I was referring to oil plants. I think it's something like 3% Like I said, I don't know about NG plants. It's probably something near 15%, like nuclear generation.

[Stewie]

I was referring to oil plants. I think it's something like 3% Like I said, I don't know about NG plants. It's probably something near 15%, like nuclear generation.

The oil producing states use an inordinate amount of oil to produce electricity. Natural gas generates electricity mostly west of the Mississippi, but NG power plants are coming online rapidly because they're cleaner. Still, it's oil company fuel firing their boilers.

[Donger]

The oil producing states use an inordinate amount of oil to produce electricity. Natural gas generates electricity mostly west of the Mississippi, but NG power plants are coming online rapidly because they're cleaner. Still, it's oil company fuel firing their boilers.

Yes, I just looked it up. NG plants now generate 18.7% of our electricity. That's a lot higher than I realized. Still less than nuclear, but it's certainly gaining.

[Demonpenz]

oj simpson

[synthesis2]

It only makes sense. obviously most documentaries have some bias to them but its abundantly obvious that we have the technology to have electric cars that can go 150 + miles. I love the carports that had solar panals on them where you could just plug your car in while you were at work and you were using the sun for power. I'm not one of those left or right wing wierdos but I think this is one of the easiest points to argue. The big Oil and I'm sure other lobby groups are keeping this issue dead. Would I pay $40,000 to $50,000 for a two seater? Absolutly and I'm not a granola type person etc. But what bothers me the most of all of the sh## going on with the president saying that we have to have an average of 35mpg in so many years.

I would be everything I had that if I was a billionaire and decided to start my own electric car company and just make one model that got 200 miles per charge, two seater etc. that before that car even came out I would be removed from the earth, if you know what I mean.

Its just silly to argue that its not realistic.

[Donger]

It only makes sense. obviously most documentaries have some bias to them but its abundantly obvious that we have the technology to have electric cars that can go 150 + miles. I love the carports that had solar panals on them where you could just plug your car in while you were at work and you were using the sun for power. I'm not one of those left or right wing wierdos but I think this is one of the easiest points to argue. The big Oil and I'm sure other lobby groups are keeping this issue dead. Would I pay $40,000 to $50,000 for a two seater? Absolutly and I'm not a granola type person etc. But what bothers me the most of all of the sh## going on with the president saying that we have to have an average of 35mpg in so many years.

I would be everything I had that if I was a billionaire and decided to start my own electric car company and just make one model that got 200 miles per charge, two seater etc. that before that car even came out I would be removed from the earth, if you know what I mean.

Its just silly to argue that its not realistic.

It really is a question of economics. Gasoline-powered vehicles are still very economical to run and maintain.

[Skip Towne]

Here in oil rich Oklahoma the big plant near Tulsa uses coal. You don't want to be at a RR crossing when one of those thousand car coal trains is passing through.

[DenverChief]

It really is a question of economics. Gasoline-powered vehicles are still very economical to run and maintain.


for whom? The Manufacturer or the Consumer?

[Donger]

for whom? The Manufacturer or the Consumer?

Both.

[Deberg_1990]

It really is a question of economics. Gasoline-powered vehicles are still very economical to run and maintain.

True,

That explains why we are still using a technology (the 4 stroke internal combustion engine) thats over 100 years old.

[Simplex3]

For every nickel there is in squashing an electric car there's a nickel there to MAKE an electric car. The only thing that can/will/has f**ked this up is govt. intervention.

[Simplex3]

True,

That explains why we are still using a technology (the 4 stroke internal combustion engine) thats over 100 years old.
Yeah, to say the car companies use the current tech because it's cost effective isn't entirely true. Not having to spend any money on research is a big part of why it's so economical.

[Hologide]

The government... taxes killed the electric car....

[MichaelH]

Was it Exxon?

[DJ's left nut]

The Stonecutters

[Baby Lee]

No money to be made by the car companies...they had no replaceable parts other than the batteries, no transmissions, oil filters, oil, spark plugs etc etc....~1,000 vehicles were made all were leases and all were picked up at the end of the leases and summarily destroyed either by crushing or chipping...a few were donated to colleges for engineering students and one to the smithsonian all were disabled though
I think it was the opposite. It had parts that would eventually need replacing, and since they were scrapping the whole concept they didn't want a fleet of aging lead-acid filled cars with no recall or maintenance support rolling down the highways and driving their actuaries crazy.

[Chieficus]

I did...

Get over it...

[synthesis2]

I hate sounding like one of those people who no one listens to because you sound so one sided but its very obvious that big oil and other lobby groups put enough pressure on GM to get rid of the car. People can speculate all day but this is even more obvious than OJ Simpson... I guess it dosent matter to bitch about it, I'm not a multi billionaire so I guess I'm not going to make a difference....