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View Full Version : Illegal immigrants packing up and leaving Arizona


Donger
12-22-2007, 01:34 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/22/immigrants.leave.ap/index.html

PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Illegal immigrants in Arizona, frustrated with a flagging economy and tough new legislation cracking down on their employers, are returning to their home countries or trying their luck in other states

For months, immigrants have taken a wait-and-see attitude toward the state's new employer-sanctions law, which takes effect January 1. The voter-approved legislation is an attempt to lessen the economic incentive for illegal immigrants in Arizona, the busiest crossing point along the U.S.-Mexico border.

And by all appearances, it's starting to work.

"People are calling me telling me about their friend, their cousin, their neighbors -- they're moving back to Mexico," said Magdalena Schwartz, an immigrant-rights activist and pastor at a Mesa church. "They don't want to live in fear, in terror."

Martin Herrera, a 40-year-old illegal immigrant and masonry worker who lives in Camp Verde, 70 miles north of Phoenix, said he is planning to return to Mexico as soon as he ties up loose ends after living here for four years.

"I don't want to live here because of the new law and the oppressive environment," he said. "I'll be better in my country."

He called the employer-sanctions law "absurd."

"Everybody here, legally or illegally, we are part of a motor that makes this country run," Herrera said. "Once we leave, the motor is going to start to slow down."

There's no way to know how many illegal immigrants are leaving Arizona, especially now with many returning home for normal holiday visits. But economists, immigration lawyers and people who work in the immigrant community agree it's happening.

State Rep. Russell Pearce of Mesa, the author of the employer sanctions law, said his intent was to drive illegal immigrants out of Arizona.

"I'm hoping they will self-deport," Pearce said. "They broke the law. They're criminals."

Under the employer sanctions law, businesses found to have knowingly hired illegal workers will be subject to sanctions from probation to a 10-day suspension of their business licenses. A second violation would bring permanent revocation of the license.

Nancy-Jo Merritt, an immigration lawyer who primarily represents employers, said her clients already have started to fire workers who can't prove they are in the country legally.

"Workers are being fired, of course," she said. "Nobody wants to find out later on that they've got somebody working for them who's not here legally."

When immigrants don't have jobs, they don't stick around, said Dawn McLaren, a research economist at Arizona State University who specializes in illegal immigration.

She said the flagging economy, particularly in the construction industry, also is contributing to an immigrant exodus.

"As the jobs dwindle and the environment becomes more unpleasant in more ways than one, you then decide what to do, and perhaps leaving looks like a good idea," she said. "And certainly that creates a problem, because as people leave, they take the jobs they created with them."

Pearce disagreed that the Arizona economy will suffer after illegal immigrants leave, saying there will be less crime, lower taxes, less congestion, smaller classroom sizes and shorter lines in emergency rooms.

"We have a free market. It'll adjust," he said. "Americans will be much better off."

He said he's not surprised illegal immigrants are leaving the state and predicts that more will go once the employer-sanctions law takes effect next month.

"It's attrition by enforcement," he said. "As you make this an unfriendly state for lawbreakers, I'm hoping they will pick up and leave."

Ebolapox
12-22-2007, 01:41 PM
good. now let's try all fifty states.

pr_capone
12-22-2007, 01:46 PM
good riddance

banyon
12-22-2007, 01:51 PM
:clap:

wazu
12-22-2007, 01:52 PM
Great job Arizona, for showing the rest of the U.S. the roadmap.

bango
12-22-2007, 01:52 PM
If most of them do end up leaving what would happen to the price of goods and services? I know that they will go up, but will they go up way too much. This is worth keeping an eye on to see if it can work in the rest of the country. If things end up becoming too costly, should we then allow some back for employment to drive the costs back down. The only thing that I would like to see is that they are screened for sickness and crime. We have enough of that in our country now. I work in an industry that is affected by them(distribution). They are hard workers, for the most part. The wage is lower because they will work for less.

chiefforlife
12-22-2007, 01:54 PM
It IS that easy! It worked in Oklahoma and now Arizona. This should be a federal law!

banyon
12-22-2007, 01:54 PM
If most of them do end up leaving what would happen to the price of goods and services? I know that they will go up, but will they go up way too much. This is worth keeping an eye on to see if it can work in the rest of the country. If things end up becoming too costly, should we then allow some back for employment to drive the costs back down. The only thing that I would like to see is that they are screened for sickness and crime. We have enough of that in our country now. I work in an industry that is affected by them(distribution). They are hard workers, for the most part. The wage is lower because they will work for less.

How, exactly are we going to "screen them" for crime?

bango
12-22-2007, 01:59 PM
Is there a way that we can check to see if they are felons? I am not sure if States south of our border keep records that are standard or not. I do know that if they have been charged with a crime in this country they should be kicked out and not be allowed back.

banyon
12-22-2007, 02:13 PM
Is there a way that we can check to see if they are felons? I am not sure if States south of our border keep records that are standard or not. I do know that if they have been charged with a crime in this country they should be kicked out and not be allowed back.

We usually don't even know their real name if they were caught and released in this country.

As for the quality of Mexican court records... not so much.

banyon
12-22-2007, 02:14 PM
.

Adept Havelock
12-22-2007, 02:18 PM
:LOL:

How, exactly are we going to "screen them" for crime?

:hmmm:

:shrug:
.

chiefforlife
12-22-2007, 02:18 PM
.


Obviously English is her second language...

stevieray
12-22-2007, 02:25 PM
.

"suddenly, mildred realized she was being owned by her grandaughter.."

Cochise
12-22-2007, 02:35 PM
Nice to hear cracking down on employers is working.

BucEyedPea
12-22-2007, 03:37 PM
Nice!

Mr. Laz
12-22-2007, 03:39 PM
good

listopencil
12-22-2007, 03:56 PM
"Everybody here, legally or illegally, we are part of a motor that makes this country run," Herrera said. "Once we leave, the motor is going to start to slow down."


Who is Juan Gault?

Adept Havelock
12-22-2007, 04:28 PM
"Everybody here, legally or illegally, we are part of a motor that makes this country run," Herrera said. "Once we leave, the motor is going to start to slow down."


Who is Juan Gault?

ROFL

Donger
12-22-2007, 06:13 PM
If most of them do end up leaving what would happen to the price of goods and services? I know that they will go up, but will they go up way too much. This is worth keeping an eye on to see if it can work in the rest of the country. If things end up becoming too costly, should we then allow some back for employment to drive the costs back down. The only thing that I would like to see is that they are screened for sickness and crime. We have enough of that in our country now. I work in an industry that is affected by them(distribution). They are hard workers, for the most part. The wage is lower because they will work for less.

I'll gladly take a 10-20% hit on anything they have been involved in producing if it's certified "illegal-free."

bango
12-22-2007, 06:22 PM
It must be nice to be able to afford it.

Donger
12-22-2007, 06:25 PM
It must be nice to be able to afford it.

Of course, it's not a 10-20% increase across the board. How many things do I buy that are presently produced by illegals? I'd guess less than 20%

So, it's really not that big of a deal.

banyon
12-22-2007, 06:26 PM
I work in an industry that is affected by them(distribution). They are hard workers, for the most part. The wage is lower because they will work for less.

I'll gladly take a 10-20% hit on anything they have been involved in producing if it's certified "illegal-free."

It must be nice to be able to afford it.


:hmmm:

bango
12-22-2007, 06:29 PM
The cost of goods and services would go up quicker than the rise in salary, I am guessing.

Donger
12-22-2007, 06:29 PM
:hmmm:

I think what bango is saying is that he/she believes the price of goods will go up because the illegals will be replaced by legals who will demand higher pay.

banyon
12-22-2007, 06:32 PM
I think what bango is saying is that he/she believes the price of goods will go up because the illegals will be replaced by legals who will demand higher pay.

Yes, but he has already stated his salary would go up too (10-20% sounds reasonable).

Anyway, I guess he/she just explained themselves.

Donger
12-22-2007, 06:53 PM
The cost of goods and services would go up quicker than the rise in salary, I am guessing.

Honestly, I doubt that many consumers will be hit that hard by this. Businesses, like construction? Sure. But, IMO, TFB. Shouldn't have hired them in the first place. The first company that hikes their prices by 10-20% will be tacitly admitting they were using illegals previously.

Should be fun...

chiefforlife
12-22-2007, 08:56 PM
It must be nice to be able to afford it.


There should be plenty of job openings soon. Get one. :)