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dirk digler
12-24-2007, 11:16 AM
The Chiefs and Clark Hunt should learn something from the Pats.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/12/23/week16/index.html

How to build a champion
Pats showed the way; can Parcells, rest of NFL follow?

NEW YORK -- Once upon a time, way back in 2000, New England owner Bob Kraft swam against the tide and hired a 47-year-old coach, Bill Belichick, who brought along a trusted friend with a knack for picking players, Scott Pioli, 34, to run the personnel side of the team.

Pioli would scout and prepare the free-agent and draft lists with his staff, and do contracts, while Belichick would coach and pick the players ... with the financial and moral support of Kraft.

The Patriots were $10 million over the cap then, and their top-rated free agent at an important position was a terrific young tackle, Jon Runyan. Nope, Belichick said; we're not going to further screw up our bloated cap by signing the richest tackle in football. So the Patriots bit the bullet in 2000 and 2001, trying to get better through the draft (Tom Brady came in 2000, Richard Seymour and Matt Light in '01).

Then they took a very interesting gamble in 2001. One of their best young defensive players, tackle Chad Eaton, was a free agent, and the Pats let him go seek his fortune. Eaton signed with Seattle for a bonus of $3.5 million. The Patriots signed 20 mid- to low-roster veteran free agents for of $2.57 million in signing bonuses that spring.

Of course, the Patriots won the Super Bowl that season, with 16 of those free agents playing in an upset win over St. Louis. Mike Vrabel, Antowain Smith, Roman Phifer and Larry Izzo were among them. In the spring of 2002, New England was the only defending Super Bowl champion in the first nine years of free agency to enter the next season under the salary cap.

After that 2002 Super Bowl game, I told Belichick at the Patriots' team party, "You've just given a blueprint to every team in the NFL -- draft well, find a quarterback and fill in all the cracks through middle- and lower-class free-agency.''

"I know,'' he said.

Six years later, teams still don't follow the blueprint. I don't get it.

Garcia Bronco
12-24-2007, 11:33 AM
LOL...blueprint..these writers get worse and worse every year

dirk digler
12-24-2007, 11:39 AM
LOL...blueprint..these writers get worse and worse every year

It was Peter King.

Shanahan could take some lessons as well since his player personnel decisions are probably about as bad as the Chiefs decisions right now.

cdcox
12-24-2007, 11:41 AM
Considering that there are only 10 or so franchise QBs in the league at any given time, that part is much easier said than done.

Drafting well isn't exactly easy either. I really think the way the Patriots develop players is equally important. They know what kind of personality types fit their system and they stick with those guys. And the Patriots know how to coach them.

The mid-level free agents is a great idea, especially if you can find basic football players whose personalities fit your system.

In short, I think that how the players are coached once they arrive with the Pats is every bit as important as the player-personnel process that brings them in the door. The Pats are one team that have really integrated the two. Colts are another.

dirk digler
12-24-2007, 11:45 AM
Considering that there are only 10 or so franchise QBs in the league at any given time, that part is much easier said than done.

Drafting well isn't exactly easy either. I really think the way the Patriots develop players is equally important. They know what kind of personality types fit their system and they stick with those guys. And the Patriots know how to coach them.

The mid-level free agents is a great idea, especially if you can find basic football players whose personalities fit your system.

In short, I think that how the players are coached once they arrive with the Pats is every bit as important as the player-personnel process that brings them in the door. The Pats are one team that have really integrated the two. Colts are another.

Great post cdcox and I totally agree. It really helps to have a great coach and staff that knows what it wants and how the players fit into their system. That is something that is totally lacking with the Chiefs.

the Talking Can
12-24-2007, 11:46 AM
the key to that is having brilliant coaches who know exactly the type of player their system needs, and know how to put those players in a position to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses....

AS is the only coordinator we have EVER had like that under Carl....we currently don't have a coach on our staff, at any level, worth a nickle...


which why our rebuilding under Herm is likely doomed to failure...

the Talking Can
12-24-2007, 11:47 AM
In short, I think that how the players are coached once they arrive with the Pats is every bit as important as the player-personnel process that brings them in the door.


repost!

ROFL

Garcia Bronco
12-24-2007, 11:52 AM
It was Peter King.

Shanahan could take some lessons as well since his player personnel decisions are probably about as bad as the Chiefs decisions right now.Naa. Not recently.




My poi nt was that there is no blue print. The Pats got luckywith Brady and I still feel that their first Super Bowl was the result of foolery...compound that with the fact that they are known cheaters and I'll go ahead and say the "blueprint" is suspect.

Not to mention for a moral compass perspective..bIll Belicheck is the biggest POS in Pro Football. From Cleveland to now.

chiefbowe82
12-24-2007, 12:02 PM
Why haven't the chiefs brought back medlock, why sign Carney when our season is already over, why not see if Medlock can come around? He could atleast attempt field goals over 45 yards

Deberg_1990
12-24-2007, 12:05 PM
the key to that is having brilliant coaches who know exactly the type of player their system needs, and know how to put those players in a position to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses....

AS is the only coordinator we have EVER had like that under Carl....we currently don't have a coach on our staff, at any level, worth a nickle...


which why our rebuilding under Herm is likely doomed to failure...

True,

What was that saying that Whitlock came up with a few weeks ago?

Something like: Super Bowl teams always have head coaching prospects at the coordinator positions.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 12:09 PM
That approach is much better than the people who want the Chiefs to go drop a load of cash on guys like Faneca.

dirk digler
12-24-2007, 12:13 PM
Naa. Not recently.




My poi nt was that there is no blue print. The Pats got luckywith Brady and I still feel that their first Super Bowl was the result of foolery...compound that with the fact that they are known cheaters and I'll go ahead and say the "blueprint" is suspect.

Not to mention for a moral compass perspective..bIll Belicheck is the biggest POS in Pro Football. From Cleveland to now.

Cmon are you serious? I could see 1 SB was the result of foolery but winning 3 SB's because of cheating? I highly doubt it. If the Pats were lucky with Brady the Donkeys were lucky with Terrell Davis.

It just sounds like you are jealous.

dirk digler
12-24-2007, 12:14 PM
That approach is much better than the people who want the Chiefs to go drop a load of cash on guys like Faneca.

I agree. I fully admit I was wrong about them giving LJ a new big contract. I am on the fence about Tony because he has played great this year and probably will next year as well.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 12:16 PM
At this point I think the Chiefs should draft a QB and ride with it. I don't see winning a Bowl with Croyle and that's what it's about.

dirk digler
12-24-2007, 12:18 PM
At this point I think the Chiefs should draft a QB and ride with it. I don't see winning a Bowl with Croyle and that's what it's about.

I would agree if there were a franchise type QB out there but I just don't see it yet.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 12:20 PM
I would agree if there were a franchise type QB out there but I just don't see it yet.

I think I'd take Matt Ryan if given the chance, I think Croyle can be a good backup. He is just to injury prone to be a 16 game starter.

Deberg_1990
12-24-2007, 12:25 PM
I think I'd take Matt Ryan if given the chance, I think Croyle can be a good backup. He is just to injury prone to be a 16 game starter.

I agree.

If Matt Ryan is there, i dont see how you can pass on him?


It all starts with the QB position.

KCChiefsFan88
12-24-2007, 12:55 PM
Naa. Not recently.




My poi nt was that there is no blue print. The Pats got luckywith Brady and I still feel that their first Super Bowl was the result of foolery...compound that with the fact that they are known cheaters and I'll go ahead and say the "blueprint" is suspect.

Not to mention for a moral compass perspective..bIll Belicheck is the biggest POS in Pro Football. From Cleveland to now.

How is what the Patriots did with Video-gate different from what Denver did all of those years with offensive linemen sliming their jerseys with illegal substances to make themselves more difficult for opposing defenders to handle?

Those who live in glass, greased cheating houses shouldn't throw stones.

StcChief
12-24-2007, 01:53 PM
Cmon are you serious? I could see 1 SB was the result of foolery but winning 3 SB's because of cheating? I highly doubt it. If the Pats were lucky with Brady the Donkeys were lucky with Terrell Davis.

It just sounds like you are jealous.
Cheatin' Pats/Donxs? Pot meet Kettle....
Donxs have stickem Goo , vegetable oil, salary cap accounting errors, cut blocks.... Damn dude.

Short Leash Hootie
12-24-2007, 02:02 PM
blueprint...

First find Tom Brady...yeah, that's an easy task!

Sully
12-24-2007, 02:14 PM
So...part of the "blueprint" is to get lucky with a 6th round pick who was a backup in college?

I'm all for following the Pats' lead. I love watching them play, and up till this season, they haven't had a ton of "stars." But that article is ridiculous.

Guru
12-24-2007, 02:15 PM
How to build the Patriot way? Luck out on your 6th round pick.

kcfanXIII
12-24-2007, 02:17 PM
I agree. I fully admit I was wrong about them giving LJ a new big contract. I am on the fence about Tony because he has played great this year and probably will next year as well.

LJ and TG are two completely different players. tony g is all about the team. early in his career gonzalez had trouble blocking, the team needed him to block and he has become a great blocker. ask LJ to block and he'd probably respond by saying "MY job is to run the ball, not to block for a qb." tony has proven he'll do what it takes to stay in football shape, even as he gets older. he became a veagen for christs sake. it seems to me LJ is complacent now that he got the fat contract. i hope 27 proves me wrong next year, and comes back with a chip on his shoulder, but as of right now, tony seems like he wants to EARN his contract, where as LJ feels he already has.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 02:17 PM
That article goes a lot deeper than Tom Brady, even if you got your QB with the #1 pick like the Colts did they operate much the same.

It's about knowing when to walk away from guys, not overpaying on other teams FA's.

Guru
12-24-2007, 02:19 PM
That article goes a lot deeper than Tom Brady, even if you got your QB with the #1 pick like the Colts did they operate much the same.

It's about knowing when to walk away from guys, not overpaying on other teams FA's.
I agree. But it all started with Brady.

I love how the Pats don't attach themselves to players long term and cut ties at the exact right time.

JBucc
12-24-2007, 02:19 PM
The JBucc blueprint for building a champion:

1. Study everything the Chiefs do
2. Do the opposite

Dicky McElephant
12-24-2007, 02:20 PM
Yes they have a great FO.......but I have to consider 60% of how they built their team as luck. It's not like they drafted Tom Brady knowing that he was going to be who he was today.

And if(when) they win the SB this year....it'll be because they spent money on a shitload of FA's to bolster their team.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 02:22 PM
Yes they have a great FO.......but I have to consider 60% of how they built their team as luck. It's not like they drafted Tom Brady knowing that he was going to be who he was today.

And if(when) they win the SB this year....it'll be because they spent money on a shitload of FA's to bolster their team.

When a team repeatedly does it, when does it stop being luck?

Use the Colts as an example, they are much the same, do you think they got lucky too? So basically any really good team is just lucky?

cdcox
12-24-2007, 02:23 PM
The Steelers are another team that lets players walk at the right time. The thing I don't admire about the Steelers is that they emphasize the defense over the offense. Obviously you can win a SB that way, but its much harder to win two or three.

cdcox
12-24-2007, 02:26 PM
Dallas had a dynasty in the '90s and are back at the top of the NFC and are probably still rising. Just luck?

FringeNC
12-24-2007, 02:28 PM
Dallas had a dynasty in the '90s and are back at the top of the NFC and are probably still rising. Just luck?

No. I think it's time Jerry Jones starts getting his props. For example, how many franchises would have hired an OC before a head coach? Jones was so impressed with Garrett he hired him on the spot.

dirk digler
12-24-2007, 02:50 PM
That article goes a lot deeper than Tom Brady, even if you got your QB with the #1 pick like the Colts did they operate much the same.

It's about knowing when to walk away from guys, not overpaying on other teams FA's.

Yep also not overpaying with your own FA's

Yes they have a great FO.......but I have to consider 60% of how they built their team as luck. It's not like they drafted Tom Brady knowing that he was going to be who he was today.

And if(when) they win the SB this year....it'll be because they spent money on a shitload of FA's to bolster their team.

LMAO

You don't luck into 4 Super Bowls in 7 years. That is just a stupid statement.

Amnorix
12-24-2007, 05:03 PM
Naa. Not recently.




My poi nt was that there is no blue print. The Pats got luckywith Brady and I still feel that their first Super Bowl was the result of foolery...compound that with the fact that they are known cheaters and I'll go ahead and say the "blueprint" is suspect.

ROFL Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Not to mention for a moral compass perspective..bIll Belicheck is the biggest POS in Pro Football. From Cleveland to now.


He's not a nice guy. Neither were most head coaches that have been successful. I don't want him to raise my kids for me, I want him to win football games. At that he excels. The rest is irrelevant.

Guru
12-24-2007, 05:10 PM
ROFL Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.




He's not a nice guy. Neither were most head coaches that have been successful. I don't want him to raise my kids for me, I want him to win football games. At that he excels. The rest is irrelevant.

No shit. On both accounts.

Amnorix
12-24-2007, 05:10 PM
Yes they have a great FO.......but I have to consider 60% of how they built their team as luck. It's not like they drafted Tom Brady knowing that he was going to be who he was today.

And if(when) they win the SB this year....it'll be because they spent money on a shitload of FA's to bolster their team.

It's ridiculous.

First, we drafted Brady before anybody else. Did we know he'd be the greatest QB in NFL history? Obviously not, else we wouldn't have drafted Dave Stachelski (sp?), a nobody TE in the 5th round, ahead of him. But we did at least see more potential in him than 31 NFL teams, apparently.

Second, 60% luck? 60%? Umm....no. It takes a great QB to win SBs most of the time, but it also takes a great coach and a great team to help a great QB **become** great. Otherwise you're just Dan Marino without a SB, or Elway until TD showed up, or Archie Manning his entire freaking career.

A great QB is a huge leg up, but don't tell me fro a second that this is a Wilt Chamberlain and 4 cheerleaders situation, ESPECIALLY WHEN it was a largely DEFENSE oriented team that was winning those Super Bowls!!

Amnorix
12-24-2007, 05:23 PM
How to build a champion the Patriot Way? Here's how:

1. get lucky with taking an incredibly talented QB even though you don't have a high 1st round pick.

2. hit on your first round picks, EVERY DAMN TIME. Don't go for high risk, high reward guy. Go for the guy who is nearly guaranteed to start, even if he's not a star, who has a strong work ethic, and isn't a head case. Patriots 1st round picks in the Belichick era: Seymour (All Pro), Warren (Pro Bowler), Wilfork (Pro Bowler), Graham (solid starter), Graham (solid starter), Mankins (pro bowler), Maroney (starter, but jury still out), and Meriweather (jury totally out).

3. collect draft picks like a pimp collects whores. But the corollary is to spend them when the value is obviously there. Draft picks represent POTENTIAL good, cheap talent, and nothing more. If you can use draft picks to get proven talent at reasonable price, then use them (see Welker, Wes, and Moss, Randy).

4. don't overpay ANYBODY unless you really can't live without them. Never pay top dollar at positions that aren't critical to winning.

5. cut players a year too early, not a year too late.

6. Integrate your coaching staff and your player recruitment so they each work seamlessly. Your scouting department knows EXACTLY what your coaches want from a player at any given position, and THAT is who you draft. Not the sexy name, or someone who doesn't quite fit.

7. Draft the best player on your board, and don't reach for a guy because you need a warm body at that position. If you do that, you've got someone who can't help you much anyway, so you still hvaent' fixed your problem.

8. Make free agency your bitch by not caring what other teams do, or what values either newspapers, agents or other teams put on players. Bring in guys who will fit in the lcoker room, have good work ethic, and love football. Don't overpay for them.

9. Emphasize players who LOVE football in the draft and in your free agency recruitment. God and family might come before football, BUT THAT'S IT.

10. Coach 'em up, Coach 'em up, coach 'em up. If they're not coachable, don't bring them onto the team. So first make sure they're coachable, then coach the hell out of them.

11. Plan for the short AND the long run. Don't be desperate to win THIS year. Take advantage of other team's desperation by trading current draft picks for multiple high picks (see, raping of RAvens for Boller, raping of Niners for whoever the hell they drafted, for examples of this).

12. The goal of the organization is to WIN. Everything should be focused on that goal. Things that interfere with that goal must be eliminated at all costs.

OnTheWarpath58
12-24-2007, 05:53 PM
How to build a champion the Patriot Way? Here's how:

1. get lucky with taking an incredibly talented QB even though you don't have a high 1st round pick.

2. hit on your first round picks, EVERY DAMN TIME. Don't go for high risk, high reward guy. Go for the guy who is nearly guaranteed to start, even if he's not a star, who has a strong work ethic, and isn't a head case. Patriots 1st round picks in the Belichick era: Seymour (All Pro), Warren (Pro Bowler), Wilfork (Pro Bowler), Graham (solid starter), Graham (solid starter), Mankins (pro bowler), Maroney (starter, but jury still out), and Meriweather (jury totally out).

3. collect draft picks like a pimp collects whores. But the corollary is to spend them when the value is obviously there. Draft picks represent POTENTIAL good, cheap talent, and nothing more. If you can use draft picks to get proven talent at reasonable price, then use them (see Welker, Wes, and Moss, Randy).

4. don't overpay ANYBODY unless you really can't live without them. Never pay top dollar at positions that aren't critical to winning.

5. cut players a year too early, not a year too late.

6. Integrate your coaching staff and your player recruitment so they each work seamlessly. Your scouting department knows EXACTLY what your coaches want from a player at any given position, and THAT is who you draft. Not the sexy name, or someone who doesn't quite fit.

7. Draft the best player on your board, and don't reach for a guy because you need a warm body at that position. If you do that, you've got someone who can't help you much anyway, so you still hvaent' fixed your problem.

8. Make free agency your bitch by not caring what other teams do, or what values either newspapers, agents or other teams put on players. Bring in guys who will fit in the lcoker room, have good work ethic, and love football. Don't overpay for them.

9. Emphasize players who LOVE football in the draft and in your free agency recruitment. God and family might come before football, BUT THAT'S IT.

10. Coach 'em up, Coach 'em up, coach 'em up. If they're not coachable, don't bring them onto the team. So first make sure they're coachable, then coach the hell out of them.

11. Plan for the short AND the long run. Don't be desperate to win THIS year. Take advantage of other team's desperation by trading current draft picks for multiple high picks (see, raping of RAvens for Boller, raping of Niners for whoever the hell they drafted, for examples of this).

12. The goal of the organization is to WIN. Everything should be focused on that goal. Things that interfere with that goal must be eliminated at all costs.

Every single person who posts here should print this out and send it to:


Kansas City Chiefs Football Club
C/O
Carl Peterson
1 Arrowhead Drive
Kansas City, Missouri 64129-1651

WilliamTheIrish
12-24-2007, 06:07 PM
So...part of the "blueprint" is to get lucky with a 6th round pick who was a backup in college?

I'm all for following the Pats' lead. I love watching them play, and up till this season, they haven't had a ton of "stars." But that article is ridiculous.

Apparently it is. For both the Donx and the Pats. I believe Georgia back up RB Terrell Davis was drafted in the 6th round, too.

KC Jones
12-24-2007, 06:08 PM
Here's the problem with trying to use the Pats blueprint...


You need a front office that fully understands it, embraces it completely, and is as good at finding the right personnel for your team.

There's also the problem of that 'find a quaterback' comment. Not too many teams find a QB who can start and do a decent job for 5 years, much less a future HOF.

OnTheWarpath58
12-24-2007, 06:20 PM
You need a front office that fully understands it, embraces it completely, and is as good at finding the right personnel for your team.

Oh-for-three.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 06:43 PM
If we ran this team the right way, like the Pats do. This entire board would have exploded when Larry Johnson was let go....

People are wanting to do it wrong on here already, begging to sign a bunch of old FA's like Faneca.