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View Full Version : Chiefs QBs in 2008: Croyle, Huard, Ryan/Brohm/Woodson


KCChiefsFan88
12-24-2007, 11:44 AM
Let Croyle go into the season as the incumbent starter with essentially one season to prove he is the QBOTF. If he falters then the Chiefs have a franchise caliber QBOTF in either Ryan, Brohm or Woodson waiting in the wings. I'm for keeping Huard around simply because the Chiefs would need to have a veteran QB on the roster who can act as a mentor to the young QB's and can be a guy who can step in and run the offense if needed (we know Huard isn't starting QB material, but he has shown he can come off the bench and provide a spark if needed).

People might argue why give up on Croyle now and spend a likely top 5 draft pick on a QB when there are other positions of perhaps greater need (i.e. left tackle) on the team. First off NO position in the NFL is of greater need than the QB position, especially when it is unsettled, as the Chiefs QB position currently is. Second, Croyle hasn't shown enough for the Chiefs to put their faith in him that he can be the QBOTF... either from the ability to lead the Chiefs offense OR from the ability to stay healthy. I'm all for allowing Croyle to enter next season as the starting QB, but the Chiefs have to have an alternative plan in place if Croyle fails to progress. The Chiefs are in a position this offseason to draft a potential franchise QB and given the question marks surrounding Croyle, they can't pass that up. Simply relying on Damon Huard is not a viable alternative plan.

There is some precedent to this... the Chargers drafting Eli Manning then trading him for Phillip Rivers when they had a young Drew Brees (and the Chargers invested a higher draft pick in Brees than the Chiefs did in Croyle).

If Croyle ends up blossoming next season then great, the Chiefs have a good problem to have with 2 good young QBs. But if the Chiefs enter next season with all of their eggs in the Croyle basket and he falters they are right back to where they are now... with NO viable alternative plan in place.

banyon
12-24-2007, 11:45 AM
I'm okay with it minus Huard.

I'd be better going O-Line/DT though.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 11:49 AM
If we drafted a QB in the first round, we might as well not keep Croyle. Because he will fail for sure. Neck strain for looking over his shoulders will his most debilitating injury.

Bad idea.

banyon
12-24-2007, 11:50 AM
If thats the case we better have 6qbs on the roster, thats what it will take to get through the season with our Oline.

We have gotten OL through FA before, not that I trust us to do it again.

KCChiefsFan88
12-24-2007, 11:51 AM
If we drafted a QB in the first round, we might as well not keep Croyle. Because he will fail for sure. Neck strain for looking over his shoulders will his most debilitating injury.

Bad idea.

If he is the worthy QBOTF then he would rise to the challenge (as Drew Brees did when the Chargers drafted Rivers).

banyon
12-24-2007, 12:11 PM
That's what Herm wants to do, huh? :hmmm:

Valiant
12-24-2007, 12:13 PM
Well since so many seem to be high Huard, maybe we can trade him for his value... A carton of eggnog or a nobake cookie..

Mecca
12-24-2007, 12:18 PM
I actually agree with this....I think Croyle's future is as a pretty solid backup.

WestCoastReggie
12-24-2007, 12:21 PM
Are Ryan, Brohm or Woodson really franchise caliber?

Rudy lost the toss
12-24-2007, 12:22 PM
Are Ryan, Brohm or Woodson really franchise caliber?
no.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 12:23 PM
no.

There are some NFL people that will fully disagree.....I know they all love Matt Ryan and 100% think that of him.

OnTheWarpath58
12-24-2007, 12:25 PM
There are some NFL people that will fully disagree.....I know they all love Matt Ryan and 100% think that of him.

I can't remember if I've asked you this before, so here goes:

Assuming both Matt Ryan and Sedrick Ellis are still on the board when we pick, who would YOU take?

Mecca
12-24-2007, 12:27 PM
I can't remember if I've asked you this before, so here goes:

Assuming both Matt Ryan and Sedrick Ellis are still on the board when we pick, who would YOU take?

I think both would be good picks, I'd probably honestly go with Matt Ryan because I think QB is the most important position.

Rudy lost the toss
12-24-2007, 12:37 PM
There are some NFL people that will fully disagree.....I know they all love Matt Ryan and 100% think that of him.
he seems like a solid prospect. Ive seen him play and was impressed, Ill be sure to check out his bowl game for sure. but was his offense that bad at BC? He threw close to 50 times a game and only ended up with only 28 TDs in 13 games. ACC isn't that tough

Mecca
12-24-2007, 12:39 PM
he seems like a solid prospect. Ive seen him play and was impressed, Ill be sure to check out his bowl game for sure. but was his offense that bad at BC? He threw close to 50 times a game and only ended up with only 28 TDs in 13 games. ACC isn't that tough

His WR's are pretty eh, he has a nice RB. Until this year they never really played that way because it was a different coach. Their new coach basically said Matt Ryan is my best player I'm gonna throw it a lot.

OnTheWarpath58
12-24-2007, 12:40 PM
I think both would be good picks, I'd probably honestly go with Matt Ryan because I think QB is the most important position.

Color me surprised. And not because of the SC connection.

I think Sedrick Ellis would help the entire defense, and help them right away, and I can't say that about many/any other players projected to go Top 10.

A dominant DT helps take pressure off of the rest of the defense.

Leaves DE's 1-on-1.

Takes heat off of the LB's.

Helps the DB's by making the QB make quicker decisions, instead of having to cover for 7 seconds like they are now.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 12:44 PM
I think the Chiefs are at a rock bottom point, I think you start the building of your team with the franchise QB. This is possibly a 2-3 year process, that's how I look at it.

The offense to me concerns me most because the NFL has changed, the best teams in the league are all top offensive teams.

Rudy lost the toss
12-24-2007, 12:45 PM
Mecca would pick Ryan because if the chiefs selected Ellis he would finally have to start rooting for them. He's hated the chiefs ever since Marcus Allen retired :)

Mecca
12-24-2007, 12:48 PM
Mecca would pick Ryan because if the chiefs selected Ellis he would finally have to start rooting for them. He's hated the chiefs ever since Marcus Allen retired :)

LOL, nah I love Sedrick Ellis as a player, but this is a rock bottom point. You won't win games with no offense.

OnTheWarpath58
12-24-2007, 12:52 PM
I think the Chiefs are at a rock bottom point, I think you start the building of your team with the franchise QB. This is possibly a 2-3 year process, that's how I look at it.

The offense to me concerns me most because the NFL has changed, the best teams in the league are all top offensive teams.

No disagreement there, other than I think it would be a much longer process than 2-3 years. I also would rather see the next regime draft a QB. It'd be a hell of a lot harder for this coaching staff to **** up a Sedrick Ellis than a young QB.

My biggest concern is that we end up like the Chargers, Niners or Giants.

Married to average QB's for 5+ years because of their huge contracts.

crazycoffey
12-24-2007, 12:52 PM
What, no Thigpen option?



:shrug:

Mecca
12-24-2007, 12:54 PM
No disagreement there, other than I think it would be a much longer process than 2-3 years. I also would rather see the next regime draft a QB. It'd be a hell of a lot harder for this coaching staff to **** up a Sedrick Ellis than a young QB.

My biggest concern is that we end up like the Chargers, Niners or Giants.

Married to average QB's for 5+ years because of their huge contracts.

Ok this is what I'll say..start looking at the next couple of years, guys in college now, guys who were top recruits...do you see anyone that you think is a better QB prospect than these guys?

tomahawk
12-24-2007, 01:01 PM
There are some NFL people that will fully disagree.....I know they all love Matt Ryan and 100% think that of him.



Does this guy ever throw anything over a 10 yard out.
Watched him several times this year and his arm looked suspect as well as his decision making.

OnTheWarpath58
12-24-2007, 01:03 PM
Ok this is what I'll say..start looking at the next couple of years, guys in college now, guys who were top recruits...do you see anyone that you think is a better QB prospect than these guys?

That's pretty tough to tell, considering those guy all have a season or two left in college ball.

But I can tell you that the four guys I'm really gonna keep an eye on next CFB season (provided we don't draft a QB) are, in no particular order:

Ben Olsen, UCLA

Nate Longshore, Cal

Curtis Painter, Purdue

And probably the one I'm most intrigued about since he's sat behind Brohm, Hunter Cantwell, Louisville.

To say any of them will or won't be better prospects would be impossible, it's too early to tell. Injuries, a bad season, etc. all can get in the way.

Simplex3
12-24-2007, 01:04 PM
Croyle. Period.

I mean, except for the fact that this will be the last season ever that a good QB will leave college. You know, it's weird how ALL the colleges quit playing QBs.

cdcox
12-24-2007, 01:04 PM
No disagreement there, other than I think it would be a much longer process than 2-3 years. I also would rather see the next regime draft a QB. It'd be a hell of a lot harder for this coaching staff to **** up a Sedrick Ellis than a young QB.

My biggest concern is that we end up like the Chargers, Niners or Giants.

Married to average QB's for 5+ years because of their huge contracts.

I also have reservations about allowing this regime develop a QB.

I have no qualms about the Chargers, Niners or Giants QB situation. Those guys were all legitimate prospects and you have to take your lumps developing them. That is about the best you can hope for if you are going to draft a QB. Those situations are far better than the Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, or David Carr situations where you were stuck with a guy for 3+ years who never, ever showed anything.

StcChief
12-24-2007, 01:08 PM
Croyle. maybe a better vet as backup than Huard

xbarretx
12-24-2007, 01:24 PM
Let Croyle go into the season as the incumbent starter with essentially one season to prove he is the QBOTF. If he falters then the Chiefs have a franchise caliber QBOTF in either Ryan, Brohm or Woodson waiting in the wings. I'm for keeping Huard around simply because the Chiefs would need to have a veteran QB on the roster who can act as a mentor to the young QB's and can be a guy who can step in and run the offense if needed (we know Huard isn't starting QB material, but he has shown he can come off the bench and provide a spark if needed).

People might argue why give up on Croyle now and spend a likely top 5 draft pick on a QB when there are other positions of perhaps greater need (i.e. left tackle) on the team. First off NO position in the NFL is of greater need than the QB position, especially when it is unsettled, as the Chiefs QB position currently is. Second, Croyle hasn't shown enough for the Chiefs to put their faith in him that he can be the QBOTF... either from the ability to lead the Chiefs offense OR from the ability to stay healthy. I'm all for allowing Croyle to enter next season as the starting QB, but the Chiefs have to have an alternative plan in place if Croyle fails to progress. The Chiefs are in a position this offseason to draft a potential franchise QB and given the question marks surrounding Croyle, they can't pass that up. Simply relying on Damon Huard is not a viable alternative plan.

There is some precedent to this... the Chargers drafting Eli Manning then trading him for Phillip Rivers when they had a young Drew Brees (and the Chargers invested a higher draft pick in Brees than the Chiefs did in Croyle).

If Croyle ends up blossoming next season then great, the Chiefs have a good problem to have with 2 good young QBs. But if the Chiefs enter next season with all of their eggs in the Croyle basket and he falters they are right back to where they are now... with NO viable alternative plan in place.

REP, the best most realisticly objectively idea on chiefsplanet. many are like "Brodie sucks...well what do they expect? only Big Ben can come out the first year and shine like gold. all others have a bad first year and they seem to forget that we are rebuilding. rebuildin with a young QB = bad QB at first. lets see what he has before dumping him. Brodie is a pocket QB, like Manning but he can scramble so lets fix our O-line before making final decisions on QB.

good man 88, have a merry Christmas!

Mecca
12-24-2007, 01:27 PM
That's pretty tough to tell, considering those guy all have a season or two left in college ball.

But I can tell you that the four guys I'm really gonna keep an eye on next CFB season (provided we don't draft a QB) are, in no particular order:

Ben Olsen, UCLA

Nate Longshore, Cal

Curtis Painter, Purdue

And probably the one I'm most intrigued about since he's sat behind Brohm, Hunter Cantwell, Louisville.

To say any of them will or won't be better prospects would be impossible, it's too early to tell. Injuries, a bad season, etc. all can get in the way.

Ben Olsen is like 26....and he has injury problems...and I don't really like Longshore.

WestCoastReggie
12-24-2007, 01:29 PM
Build the core and build the offensive line.

Croyle will be fine.

OnTheWarpath58
12-24-2007, 01:30 PM
Ben Olsen is like 26....and he has injury problems...and I don't really like Longshore.

I don't care for any of them right now, but like I said, a lot can change.

I can't say that any of them will be any better/worse than the 2008 class.

Ryan is the only one in the 2008 class that that MIGHT become a great pro, IMO.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 01:32 PM
Mitch Houltus the chiefs radio broadcaster said that the chiefs are NOT going to be very big players in free agency this year. He also said Herm wants everything to be done through the draft.
Stubbornly adhering to just one philosophy is just the height of stupidity. You use ALL tools available to fix something. I hope Holtus is wrong on this.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 01:36 PM
Croyle. maybe a better vet as backup than Huard
Actually I think huard is a GOOD backup. He's just not a good starter.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 01:37 PM
REP, the best most realisticly objectively idea on chiefsplanet. many are like "Brodie sucks...well what do they expect? only Big Ben can come out the first year and shine like gold. all others have a bad first year and they seem to forget that we are rebuilding. rebuildin with a young QB = bad QB at first. lets see what he has before dumping him. Brodie is a pocket QB, like Manning but he can scramble so lets fix our O-line before making final decisions on QB.

good man 88, have a merry Christmas!
See post 3.

CoMoChief
12-24-2007, 01:39 PM
No QB will ever succeed behind this Oline.

Oline is a first must. No questions asked.

Croyle hasn't even started a whole season yet and people on here want to already replace him. Some people on here are ****in idiots.

banyon
12-24-2007, 01:40 PM
I don't care for any of them right now, but like I said, a lot can change.

I can't say that any of them will be any better/worse than the 2008 class.

Ryan is the only one in the 2008 class that that MIGHT become a great pro, IMO.

What's your knock on Woodson?

He's been pretty successful in a complicated offense against some pretty high-caliber competition.

Sully
12-24-2007, 01:42 PM
What's your knock on Woodson?

He's been pretty successful in a complicated offense against some pretty high-caliber competition.
Woodson has a very weird... and slow... delivery. Maybe It's not as bad as it looks, but it looks wacky as hell.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 01:45 PM
Build the core and build the offensive line.

Croyle will be fine.
A toddler cries and cries until dad finally breaks down and buys him the chocolate Ice cream that he is crying for. He takes one lick and now wants the strawberry one in the glass freezer. Only because that is NOT the one in his hand and therefore must taste "much better." A lot of posters here are acting like that kid. :rolleyes:

Mecca
12-24-2007, 01:49 PM
Croyle isn't getting hurt because he's getting peppered in the pocket......

He's gotten hurt in 2 ways a good Oline meant nothing to...I'd like to know how anyone can think Croyle can make it through 16 games.

CoMoChief
12-24-2007, 01:56 PM
Croyle isn't getting hurt because he's getting peppered in the pocket......

He's gotten hurt in 2 ways a good Oline meant nothing to...I'd like to know how anyone can think Croyle can make it through 16 games.
Well look at it this way. How many games did 30+ something yr old Trent Green start for us in a row? Trent had some of the best blocking I have ever seen. Trent isn't exactly an Iron Man either. Give a QB 5-6 seconds to throw the ball and he's gonna be successful in this league.

Better Oline = Better QB play
Better protection = Better QB play and less likely to get injured.
Better Oline = Better running game.
Better running game = Better QB play.

Both sides of the football start in the trenches. You can't have a good defense unless you get pressure from the front 4 etc.

You can't have a good offense unless you have a good Oline.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 01:59 PM
Exactly what you point out is why Green was never a great QB. If a team could get pressure on him, he couldn't make the throws. If you rattled him or get into his feet all his throws would sail and flutter. If there was ever a really windy day such as that Buffalo game he was rendered useless...

You shouldn't have to have the best Oline in the league with 3 pro bowlers and 2 other top tier guys to be able to play offense.

By the time the Chiefs get a line close to that, Brodie Croyle will be old. Avoiding hits and knowing when to get rid of the ball is also on the QB, there's a reason why some QB's rarely take big hits even behind bad lines.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 02:00 PM
Croyle isn't getting hurt because he's getting peppered in the pocket......

He's gotten hurt in 2 ways a good Oline meant nothing to...I'd like to know how anyone can think Croyle can make it through 16 games.
If some big football player trampled Peyton Manning's wrist, I suppose Manning would not get injured. :rolleyes: This is a violent collision sport. Freak accidents happen. And yes, getting beat up constantly behind a pourous line does gradually ready you for an injury. If Croyle has time to look off the LB, maybe he won't throw the pick and maybe he won't have to dive under his feet to stop the return.

xbarretx
12-24-2007, 02:01 PM
See post 3.

REP: i agree with that, but competition brings out the best. or it should. i LIKE Croyle, dont gte me wrong. the main idea that i like is dont stick a fork in him yet and dont waste a first rd on a QB. lets get an O-line then make our decision. also lets get Gonzo, and Bowe some help so we can really spread the field to open up the running game.

you are correct though Frank, if they build O-Line ..... then thats half the battle. good man though, another good objective and realistic post.

eazyb81
12-24-2007, 02:02 PM
Ryan is the only one in the 2008 class that that MIGHT become a great pro, IMO.

Yeah, Brohm has no chance considering he's excelled at every single level and has fantastic bloodlines.

:rolleyes:

Mecca
12-24-2007, 02:04 PM
If some big football player trampled Peyton Manning's wrist, I suppose Manning would not get injured. :rolleyes: This is a violent collision sport. Freak accidents happen. And yes, getting beat up constantly behind a pourous line does gradually ready you for an injury. If Croyle has time to look off the LB, maybe he won't throw the pick and maybe he won't have to dive under his feet to stop the return.

There's a reason they happen to some guys and not others, this isn't some freak happening. Croyle has always been injury prone going back to his high school days...

Also some guys are tougher than others.....Favre played most of a year with a broken thumb on his throwing hand. Manning played with a broken jaw...

You know if you are a starting QB there are games where you're hurtin, but there's a reason why Brady, Manning, Favre have missed less games combined in all their time playing than Brodie Croyle has in less than half a year of starting.

xbarretx
12-24-2007, 02:06 PM
There's a reason they happen to some guys and not others, this isn't some freak happening. Croyle has always been injury prone going back to his high school days...

Also some guys are tougher than others.....Favre played most of a year with a broken thumb on his throwing hand. Manning played with a broken jaw...

You know if you are a starting QB there are games where you're hurtin, but there's a reason why Brady, Manning, Favre have missed less games combined in all their time playing than Brodie Croyle has in less than half a year of starting.

Brady, Manning, and Farve have an O-line. /end of thread ;)

Mecca
12-24-2007, 02:08 PM
Brady, Manning, and Farve have an O-line. /end of thread ;)

Because you know those first couple years Manning's team was great right? So great they had a top 5 pick...

Favre's team was awesome these past couple years wasn't it? They completely replaced that Oline, they lost several guys. He took some big hits, he got up and played. He sucked it up.

suds79
12-24-2007, 02:09 PM
Ryan this last year has had the lowest completion percentage of all the QBs we've mentioned.

60.3% :shake:

The accuracy thing concerns me. While college stats is not everything, I'd expect more from a good to great QB. That's just me.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 02:13 PM
Ryan this last year has had the lowest completion percentage of all the QBs we've mentioned.

60.3% :shake:

The accuracy thing concerns me. While college stats is not everything, I'd expect more from a good to great QB. That's just me.

He also plays with WR's that are not NFL caliber players.....They also ask him to throw it a ton because he is by far their best player....

xbarretx
12-24-2007, 02:13 PM
Because you know those first couple years Manning's team was great right? So great they had a top 5 pick...

Favre's team was awesome these past couple years wasn't it? They completely replaced that Oline, they lost several guys. He took some big hits, he got up and played. He sucked it up.

exacily though, were first year with Brodie man. lets see waht he does for us with (a hopefully improved!) Offensive Line and then make the call to go with him or get another QBOTF. thats all im saying, i just dont want us to cut him, have another team with a decent line pick him up and have him be a really good QB. give the man time (i.e. one full season) heck if it doesnt work out our picks will be good the following year (# wise) so it works. heck, if were going to rebuild lets stop the famous CP half :cuss:-ing way and do it right. :)

eazyb81
12-24-2007, 02:13 PM
Because you know those first couple years Manning's team was great right? So great they had a top 5 pick...

Favre's team was awesome these past couple years wasn't it? They completely replaced that Oline, they lost several guys. He took some big hits, he got up and played. He sucked it up.

Heh, the Colts were so dumb for drafting Peyton Manning #1 overall when they didn't have an offensive line or many weapons for him to throw to.

I bet they are really regretting that decision, hopefully we don't do something that dumb.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 02:15 PM
Heh, the Colts were so dumb for drafting Peyton Manning #1 overall when they didn't have an offensive line or many weapons for him to throw to.

I bet they are really regretting that decision, hopefully we don't do something that dumb.

Yea man, you don't need a great QB to win in todays game (even though all the elite teams have one) a good Oline can make some scrub good, that's all we need!

jjchieffan
12-24-2007, 02:17 PM
What, no Thigpen option?



:shrug:

We can trade him to the Vikings. :ROFL:

xbarretx
12-24-2007, 02:20 PM
We can trade him to the Vikings. :ROFL:

cut coffey some slack, hes a cop ROFL

seriosuly though, hes right, tyler could be an option but without an O-Line to protect and build confidence....were pretty much SOL with any QB.

OnTheWarpath58
12-24-2007, 02:26 PM
What's your knock on Woodson?

He's been pretty successful in a complicated offense against some pretty high-caliber competition.

Woodson has a very weird... and slow... delivery. Maybe It's not as bad as it looks, but it looks wacky as hell.

That covers my answer.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 02:26 PM
Heh, the Colts were so dumb for drafting Peyton Manning #1 overall when they didn't have an offensive line or many weapons for him to throw to.

I bet they are really regretting that decision, hopefully we don't do something that dumb.
Having a QB of Manning's obvious caliber available in the draft exactly in the year you are picking in top 5 is a once in a team's lifetime thing. Chances are great that Brohm, Ryan and Woodson are less in the same league as Manning or Elway and more of Carr and Couch. Tell me how San Fran is doing with their 1st pick of the draft of a few years ago.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 02:28 PM
Yea man, you don't need a great QB to win in todays game (even though all the elite teams have one) a good Oline can make some scrub good, that's all we need!
A good line can make a mediocre QB good. But our line makes any good QB bad.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 02:29 PM
These guys have much better tools than Alex Smith does...

Matt Ryan has similar physical tools to Carson Palmer...you think that's bad?

eazyb81
12-24-2007, 02:32 PM
Having a QB of Manning's obvious caliber available in the draft exactly in the year you are picking in top 5 is a once in a team's lifetime thing. Chances are great that Brohm, Ryan and Woodson are less in the same league as Manning or Elway and more of Carr and Couch. Tell me how San Fran is doing with their 1st pick of the draft of a few years ago.

Hindsight is 20/20, eh?

Peyton Manning was hardly a slam dunk franchise QB. Experts agreed that Leaf had the better arm and athleticism, and everyone doubted that Manning had that "it" factor because he had choked every year in college against Florida.

ChiefsCountry
12-24-2007, 02:32 PM
Its not like the Colts didnt have any talent surrounding Manning when he got there. For one they had Tarik Glenn protecting him, Marvin Harrison, and Marshal Faulk. Next year traded Faulk and got Edge and Mike Peterson with the Faulk pick. Then they got the division that year, after Manning went through his learning curve.

banyon
12-24-2007, 02:32 PM
That covers my answer.

I guess I'll have to disagree. I saw him play several games in the SEC and he got pressured plenty and looked okay to me.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 02:32 PM
These guys have much better tools than Alex Smith does...

Matt Ryan has similar physical tools to Carson Palmer...you think that's bad?
AS was a draft's first pick. Will any of these guys be this draft's first pick?

Deberg_1990
12-24-2007, 02:35 PM
a good Oline can make some scrub good, that's all we need!

Then your the 2006 Chicago Bears or 2007 Minnesota Vikings.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 02:38 PM
Then your the 2005 Chicago Bears or 2007 Minnesota Vikings.

Pretty much, some people seem to aspire to want to be that.

Deberg_1990
12-24-2007, 02:42 PM
Pretty much, some people seem to aspire to want to be that.


No Thanks. Been there done that: 1990-1997 Kansas City Chiefs.

Pablo
12-24-2007, 02:45 PM
Pretty much, some people seem to aspire to want to be that.And when we bring in Ryan, Brohm, or Woodson with this offensive line and game planning, we'll instantly become a team that likes to pass the ball.

That seems likely. I wouldn't mind us drafting a young QB, so he can get plastered and get his ego shattered within a few games and we can all b*tch about how bad he sucks and we need to move on to another QB next year.

OnTheWarpath58
12-24-2007, 02:46 PM
I guess I'll have to disagree. I saw him play several games in the SEC and he got pressured plenty and looked okay to me.

I think we've had a miscommunication.

My issue with Woodson is his windup/throwing motion/release.

Not sure where pressure came into play.

Sorry if the ****-up is on my end.

FWIW, I think Woodson is the 2nd best QB of the class.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 02:51 PM
And when we bring in Ryan, Brohm, or Woodson with this offensive line and game planning, we'll instantly become a team that likes to pass the ball.

That seems likely. I wouldn't mind us drafting a young QB, so he can get plastered and get his ego shattered within a few games and we can all b*tch about how bad he sucks and we need to move on to another QB next year.

That's why, I'd handle him like the Bengals handled Palmer...I wouldn't play him his first year. I believe with the OT depth in this years draft...even with taking a QB first, they can get a RT and a RG and a LT next year for when I'm ready to play Ryan...

Just my strategy though.

OnTheWarpath58
12-24-2007, 02:58 PM
That's why, I'd handle him like the Bengals handled Palmer...I wouldn't play him his first year. I believe with the OT depth in this years draft...even with taking a QB first, they can get a RT and a RG and a LT next year for when I'm ready to play Ryan...

Just my strategy though.

The difference is that the Bengals KNEW that Palmer was going to be the QBOTF. Kitna was a nice stop-gap. One year to learn, then start earning that enormous contract.

None of these guys have the tools or resume of Carson Palmer, though Ryan would be the closest.

By taking a guy Top 5, you're marrying yourself to that guy no matter what, for at least 5 years.

It's a great plan if Croyle comes out and lays an egg next year. Ryan is the clear cut guy in 2009.

But if Croyle comes out in 08 and lights it up, then you're sitting with two young QB's, one of which has a huge contract and is sitting on the bench.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 03:00 PM
Actually if Croyle played well then you are in a great situation. You've watched the other guy practice you know what he is..Croyle is still under contract at this point....

Someone will fully be willing to trade if you decide to move away from 1 of the guys....there are far worse things than having 2 QB's. You go with your gut and what you feel. I think Croyle can be a pretty good backup that's my thoughts of him.

ChiefsCountry
12-24-2007, 03:01 PM
That's why, I'd handle him like the Bengals handled Palmer...I wouldn't play him his first year. I believe with the OT depth in this years draft...even with taking a QB first, they can get a RT and a RG and a LT next year for when I'm ready to play Ryan...

Just my strategy though.

I agree with that if Ryan was a sure fire prospect like Palmer was. I would rather have Sedrick Ellis or Chris Long than Ryan.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 03:03 PM
Ok if you don't like the QB's this year honestly...Who's going to be available in the next couple of years?

This is a reason why I was a big proponent of taking a WR last year..look at this years class...Dwayne Bowe would probably be the #1 guy.

It helps to look to the future at some of these positions, I've gone over some of it, I'm not seeing any QB prospects better than those 3 in the coming years...

banyon
12-24-2007, 03:04 PM
Ok if you don't like the QB's this year honestly...Who's going to be available in the next couple of years?

This is a reason why I was a big proponent of taking a WR last year..look at this years class...Dwayne Bowe would probably be the #1 guy.

It helps to look to the future at some of these positions, I've gone over some of it, I'm not seeing any QB prospects better than those 3 in the coming years...

Just Tebow, but otherwise I agree.

OnTheWarpath58
12-24-2007, 03:05 PM
Actually if Croyle played well then you are in a great situation. You've watched the other guy practice you know what he is..Croyle is still under contract at this point....

Someone will fully be willing to trade if you decide to move away from 1 of the guys....there are far worse things than having 2 QB's. You go with your gut and what you feel. I think Croyle can be a pretty good backup that's my thoughts of him.

You of all people should know how rare/difficult it would be to pull off a trade like that.

Ryan would be all but untradable because of his contract, you'd never get equal value for him since you spent a Top 5 pick on him.

If you trade Croyle, then you're right back where you started from, with a young QB who may or may not be the guy at this level. Meanwhile, you've traded away the guy who's shown you he can.

ChiefsCountry
12-24-2007, 03:05 PM
Honestly the best QB will be Brennan IMO. I think he has that "it" factor even though he played in Jones' Run N Shoot offense.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 03:08 PM
Hey I'm just going on what I think, I don't see it with Brodie Croyle, I think he's best suited as a backup because I think he could play a couple games but I don't see him ever making it 16.

Right now Brodie Croyle means nill to my thinking of what I wanna do to this team other than I need him to start for a year.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 03:08 PM
Honestly the best QB will be Brennan IMO. I think he has that "it" factor even though he played in Jones' Run N Shoot offense.

Don't let Holmezz see you say that...

ChiefsCountry
12-24-2007, 03:14 PM
It helps to look to the future at some of these positions, I've gone over some of it, I'm not seeing any QB prospects better than those 3 in the coming years...

Who at this time last year thought that Matt Ryan would be the top rated QB? Brohm was the man last year.

Mecca
12-24-2007, 03:17 PM
Who at this time last year thought that Matt Ryan would be the top rated QB? Brohm was the man last year.

They were both pretty highly thought of.....Ryan is more well known today to fans because BC changed coaches and pass a lot more now.

BigMeatballDave
12-24-2007, 03:18 PM
Hey I'm just going on what I think, I don't see it with Brodie Croyle, I think he's best suited as a backup because I think he could play a couple games but I don't see him ever making it 16.
I have argued with you on this, but after his injury Sunday, I am beginning to wonder.

eazyb81
12-24-2007, 03:18 PM
Who at this time last year thought that Matt Ryan would be the top rated QB? Brohm was the man last year.

Brohm still is in the man. No experts are saying Ryan is much better than Brohm, and I would guess that most still have Brohm ahead of Ryan.

I know we have some Ryan fans on here, but to me, Brohm is the clear-cut choice.

But that might be a thread for another day....

BigMeatballDave
12-24-2007, 03:21 PM
I can't say "Matt Ryan" without thinking "Ryan Leaf".

Not that I think he'll be as bad, its just the name...

Mecca
12-24-2007, 03:22 PM
I can't say "Matt Ryan" without thinking "Ryan Leaf".

Not that I think he'll be as bad, its just the name...

well just so you know, those guys aren't much alike at all. Leaf was a hothead, Ryan is calm, cool and smart.

KCChiefsFan88
12-24-2007, 05:34 PM
A good line can make a mediocre QB good. But our line makes any good QB bad.

WRONG.

In fact it is just the opposite, a talented QB can make an average offensive line look better than they really are... especially if you have a QB with good pocket presence who makes decisions quickly and gets the ball out of his hands quickly. Remember for years people said the Patriots had a bad offensive line when Drew Bledsoe was their QB... however once Tom Brady took over their starting QB duties... magically the # of sacks dropped and the offensive line began to look much better. A similar thing happened last year in Dallas with the switch from Bledsoe to Romo.

The Colts this year are down to a third string left tackle, yet aside from the Chargers game, Manning and that offense have hardly missed a beat. Good QBs can compensate for average offensive lines, but even a great offensive line can't make up for mediocre QB play (see Minnesota, Chicago and heck even Miami until the last 4 or 5 games as examples).

BigMeatballDave
12-24-2007, 07:17 PM
WRONG.

It can work both ways. Green is average to below average behind a shotty line. He put up great numbers for a few years. Mostly due to the line play.

Mosbonian
12-24-2007, 08:25 PM
Are Ryan, Brohm or Woodson really franchise caliber?

Maybe, NO and NO.....

mmaddog
*******

BigChiefFan
12-24-2007, 08:32 PM
Ok if you don't like the QB's this year honestly...Who's going to be available in the next couple of years?

This is a reason why I was a big proponent of taking a WR last year..look at this years class...Dwayne Bowe would probably be the #1 guy.

It helps to look to the future at some of these positions, I've gone over some of it, I'm not seeing any QB prospects better than those 3 in the coming years...Sam Bradford out of Oklahoma looks like he could make the transition. There's too many collegiate programs for their not to be somebody step it up at QB.

That being said, always draft BPA, regardless of position. If one these guys falls to us, you pull the trigger, if they are ranked higher on our draft board. Sadly, I don't have much faith in our FO's draft board.

Mosbonian
12-24-2007, 08:35 PM
What's your knock on Woodson?

He's been pretty successful in a complicated offense against some pretty high-caliber competition.

He isn't an NFL caliber QB, simple as that. And he hasn't been that successful.....Kentucky started strong and finished weak. They were 7-5 and 3 of those wins were against Eastern Kentucky, Kent State, and Florida Atlantic.

mmaddog
*******

Mosbonian
12-24-2007, 08:38 PM
Woodson has a very weird... and slow... delivery. Maybe It's not as bad as it looks, but it looks wacky as hell.

Actually it is as bad as it looks....

mmaddog
*******

Mosbonian
12-24-2007, 08:38 PM
Yeah, Brohm has no chance considering he's excelled at every single level and has fantastic bloodlines.

:rolleyes:

He's looked pretty average this year....

mmaddog
*******

Mosbonian
12-24-2007, 08:41 PM
I guess I'll have to disagree. I saw him play several games in the SEC and he got pressured plenty and looked okay to me.

Not sure which games you were watching.....he was good in 3 games and average in most others.

mmaddog
*******

Micjones
12-24-2007, 08:43 PM
I'm fine with us taking a guy like Matt Ryan.
There will be players like Jeff Otah available in R2.

Mosbonian
12-24-2007, 08:47 PM
I can't say "Matt Ryan" without thinking "Ryan Leaf".

Not that I think he'll be as bad, its just the name...

When I hear Brian Brohm I think Tim Couch or David Klingler.

When I hear Andre Woodson I think of Akili Smith.

mmaddog
*******

Frankie
12-24-2007, 09:17 PM
I can't say "Matt Ryan" without thinking "Ryan Leaf".

Not that I think he'll be as bad, its just the name...
The name also reminds one of another highly regarded first rounder, albeit not a QB, named Sims. The only Ryan I want us to draft in the first is Ryan Clady (maybe after a slight trade down). I saw him play the other night and was impressed.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 09:21 PM
WRONG.

In fact it is just the opposite, a talented QB can make an average offensive line look better than they really are... especially if you have a QB with good pocket presence who makes decisions quickly and gets the ball out of his hands quickly.....
Which is an attribute Brodie Croyle has shown, more often than not. The problem with yesterday's game was he was again kept on a short leash by the coaches for some reason. When Huard came in they had nothing to lose and removed the leash.

Brock
12-24-2007, 09:24 PM
Which is an attribute Brodie Croyle has shown, more often than not. The problem with yesterday's game was he was again kept on a short leash by the coaches for some reason. When Huard came in they had nothing to lose and removed the leash.

Why can't you people just admit he played like ass? It happens, there's no conspiracy to it.

xbarretx
12-24-2007, 09:24 PM
mmaddog
*******

hehe, i had that on 3DO

Frankie
12-24-2007, 09:25 PM
I'm fine with us taking a guy like Matt Ryan.
There will be players like Jeff Otah available in R2.
OMG, if you are so sure he is available in the 2nd, then add him to Jake Long or Ryan Clady from the first round and start building an awesome line again. At worst we have a great chance that at least one becomes a stud.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 09:26 PM
When I hear Brian Brohm I think Tim Couch or David Klingler.

When I hear Andre Woodson I think of Akili Smith.

mmaddog
*******
I get the same vibes too. Isn't it funny?

xbarretx
12-24-2007, 09:26 PM
Which is an attribute Brodie Croyle has shown, more often than not. The problem with yesterday's game was he was again kept on a short leash by the coaches for some reason. When Huard came in they had nothing to lose and removed the leash.

yep, once we upgrade our o-line and get some decetn recievers in there our runnign game will return and Brodie will have more than TG and DB to throw to. then the Brodie haters can STFU and ride off into the sunset wearing their Huard Jersey never to return :clap:

Frankie
12-24-2007, 09:31 PM
Why can't you people just admit he played like ass? It happens, there's no conspiracy to it.
I have no problem admitting he didn't have a good day. But we all promised to tolerate an occasional step back from (essentially) a rookie QB. That said, I just pointed out what I believe was an additional factor to his bad day. I think when he threw the INTs late last week the chickenshit coaches went back into a shell with him. I'd let him learn and move on rather than giving hem the message that he's not to be trusted.

KC Tattoo
12-24-2007, 09:38 PM
Why can't you people just admit he played like ass? It happens, there's no conspiracy to it.

I'm a huge Croyle fan and think he played like crap yesterday. I'm sure we can come up with excuses for him like all the Huard excuses at the beginning of the year. I don't think Croyle was having a good day before his INT and getting hurt trying to tackle a LB at full speed.

I'm sure given the chance to redeem himself he will. Brodie still has a lot to learn at the NFL level and I would expect him to make mistakes more often than not but hopefully learn and get better from them. As soon as he starts to click with the WRs like D Bowe he will be fine. Hopefully he can rebound next week against the J-E-T-S - J-E-T-S - J-E-T-S!!!


Of course I hope Brodie does fine but in the end go J-E-T-S - J-E-T-S - J-E-T-S!!!

xbarretx
12-24-2007, 09:42 PM
Of course I hope Brodie dose fine but in the end go J-E-T-S - J-E-T-S - J-E-T-S!!!

Amen Brotha!

dj56dt58
12-24-2007, 10:03 PM
Everyone bitches because we wont give a qb the time to develop..yet nobody wants to give the qbs time to develop. If Brodie comes out and has a good game next week(assuming he plays), everyone will be right back on the bandwagon. a week ago Brodie was going to end up being one of the best qbs in the league a few years from now(which I for one still believe)

KC Tattoo
12-24-2007, 10:07 PM
Everyone bitches because we wont give a qb the time to develop..yet nobody wants to give the qbs time to develop. If Brodie comes out and has a good game next week(assuming he plays), everyone will be right back on the bandwagon. a week ago Brodie was going to end up being one of the best qbs in the league a few years from now(which I for one still believe)


I believe it too. I think the reason every one is dogging Brodie right now isn't cus of the INT, but becouse he got hurt again. This is now a potential problem if Brodie doesn't prove he can stay on the field for a full season.

Crush
12-24-2007, 10:14 PM
We need to give Croyle a chance to develop. There is no other option.

Frankie
12-24-2007, 10:17 PM
Everyone bitches because we wont give a qb the time to develop..yet nobody wants to give the qbs time to develop.
Rep.

Brock
12-24-2007, 10:18 PM
We need to give Croyle a chance to develop. There is no other option.

"we" need to be prepared for the likely event that this will never happen.

Crush
12-24-2007, 10:24 PM
"we" need to be prepared for the likely event that this will never happen.

True, but the Chiefs have bigger problems than QB. No 1st day pick should be used on a QB.

xbarretx
12-24-2007, 11:51 PM
True, but the Chiefs have bigger problems than QB. No 1st day pick should be used on a QB.

dude, with reason and logic like that.... i too need to go to clown college too make sure Herm took NFL Championship 101 and learned that lesson :clap:
ch 1: can we say O-Line?
CH 2 CB?
CH 3 D-Line?
EX Cred: hell.....a :cuss: kicker that isnt older than herm and could be a KOTF ;)

Final: game clock Mgmt :o)

good man crush :thumb:

smittysbar
12-25-2007, 12:50 AM
Sure as F U C K better not be Huard or I will not be a Fan any longer. And I actually mean it.

mikey23545
12-25-2007, 04:56 AM
By the time the Chiefs get a line close to that, Brodie Croyle will be old.

What a retarded ****ing statement.

How long does it take to rebuild an offensive line in your world? 20 years?

BigMeatballDave
12-25-2007, 05:18 AM
We need to give Croyle a chance to develop. There is no other option.True, but if he keeps getting injured, how will this ever happen?