View Full Version : It's Official; Dye a frickin A.

Pitt Gorilla
07-25-2001, 12:47 PM
I cannot believe this happened (actually I can, I just prayed that it wouldn't.) I've been an adamant Royals supporter through the thick and the thin; However, this is rediculous. Are we in another rebuilding effort already? Perez is one year younger and is nowhere near Dye with the bat. It's not like the Royals haven't had enough problems scoring runs in the first place. I guess this also means we'll trade Sanchez, probably the best fielding shortstop in the league, who is also having a GREAT year at the plate. I just do not get it. It's going to make me ill seeing an all ex-Royal outfield in Oakland: Damon, Dye, and Giambi. Doesn't Oakland get enough pleasure screwing us during football season? Do we really deserve to be treated as their minor league affiliate? I'm sorry to rant, but this just breaks my heart.
Let me know what you think. Thanks.
Deeply Wounded in Columbia

07-25-2001, 12:53 PM
We are a slaphitters paradise. I can't wait to see: Hinch behind the plate, McCarty at first, Alicia at second, Perez at short, Ordaz at third, Sadler in left, Endy Chavez in center, and Ibanez in right. Zaun at Dh.

07-25-2001, 01:18 PM
From the Star:

First baseman Mike Sweeney, in a playful mood, yelled: "Blame it on Rey (Sanchez) -- Rey won't sign a contract."

That, in fact, is a crucial consideration for such a deal. Sanchez, represented by superagent Scott Boras, is not signed for next season. In addition, heir apparent Angel Berroa is considered to be a year or two away from the majors.

see: http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/royals.pat,sports/3accd890.724,.html

Rumor has it that Rey and Scott are going to troll the markets for more money after this season (one of Rey's best ever). Rey will be gone by this time next week. This is just another symptom of what is wrong with baseball. The teams are left with their hands tied while the players cannibalize any team affiliation or fan support. We'll see how much these big babies cry when there's nobody left to watch them. Funny how they all seem to forget that it's the fans who sign their paychecks.

Thanks Mr. Boras.
Thanks Rey.

And thanks JD.

Bob Dole
07-25-2001, 01:43 PM
Bob Dole is really tired of seeing Bob Dole's favorite baseball team become a farm team for every other franchise.

Rey will be gone within 2 days...

07-25-2001, 03:42 PM
The Royals were probably thinking along these terms:

They can sign either Dye or Sweeny long term, not both. Sweeny is the more sure thing. As Dye has shown this year, his bat is more fickle. So it's not worth giving him a long term contract if he's going to bat .270 with 24 home runs.

Dye was also probably going to walk after next year if they didn't give him huge money. Meanwhile, Boras has already indicated Rey Sanchez is gone after this year. So to fill the hole, might as well get one of the NL's best shortstops and a gold glover to help the pitching out. Then try to ship Sanchez and get something for him.

Bottom line, this team isn't winning, and they weren't going to win sitting on their asses with this current assortment of losers. I've never been a big Jermaine Dye fan, so this trade doesn't exactly bring tears to my eyes, but I can understand why others would be pissed. But from my vantage point, Baird might as well rebuild this team if he has a master plan like Billy Beane did when he took over the A's. Stick the young guys in the outfield and see what they have on an everyday basis.

But bottom line, 21 games under .500 isn't getting it done. .273/13/47 isn't getting it done. And as much as I like Joe Randa, if his .246 hitting *** has a problem with it, get rid of him too. I want a baseball team that wins, not whines about their buddies.

Now if only Baird would fire Tony Loser, I could at least look forward to next spring training...

07-25-2001, 04:24 PM
Good points everyone. DaWolf, I guess I was just feeling optimistic about the collective bargaining renegotiation that is supposed to take place at the end of this season. Part of me thought that if the Royals could keep the likes of Dye and Sweeney, that they could afford them both under a new agreement. It seems to me that the primary driver for this trade was Rey Sanchez and Scott Boras. Scott is using Rey exactly the same way he used Damon. The Royals basically don't have a choice. If they keep Rey through the season, he leaves and they are left with a very green minor league SS and the daunting task of finding a major league quality SS in free agency. At least now the SS hole is filled (rather adequately) and Sanchez can be traded for left-handed middle relief, right-handed middle relief, or some cash and a piece of already-been-chewed gum. On the up side, maybe Endy and Dermal will help us forget about Jermaine what's-his-name and Perez has a few more years in him compared to Rey.

Unfortunately, nobody likes being traded to the Royals.

07-25-2001, 04:37 PM
I'm not feeling so rosey about the situation. If Kansas City insists on fielding a minor league team, they should charge minor league prices. At some point in time we have to stop rebuilding.

I don't know why players mind being traded to KC. They know if they do any good they'll be able to go somewhere else.

07-25-2001, 04:45 PM

The trade wasn't that bad.

The Royals need a good shortstop. Perez is a good young shortstop.

They have a large number of good outfielders in the minors waiting to play anyway.

07-25-2001, 05:07 PM
And remember, Perez is durable enough that if Berroa is ready in 2 years, he can play 2nd, assuming Febles keeps sucking, and assuming that we are actually able to sign Perez to a deal beyond 2003...

07-25-2001, 05:20 PM
The Royals already have a good shortstop. But they aren't about to pay him a premium price. Instead they trade him for a cheaper one, and when he is eligible for arbitration they'll trade him too. Someday the revolving door has to stop.

Sorry for all the negitivity. I just truly believe the Royals aren't even trying to maintain a competitive team right now - just a cheap one.

Archie F. Swin
07-25-2001, 06:07 PM
Give me one good reason why this was not a good time to address our pitiful pitching situation.

I'm really growing weary of the Royals decision making. I'm starting to have fond memories of the teams with players like Tartabull, Seitzer, Stillwell and Boone . . . Lord help us all! :(

keg in kc
07-25-2001, 06:19 PM
It all boils down to this for me:

Tony Muser has not even sniffed .500 in 5 years in KC, as a first-time manager. So what do we do? Fire him? No, we trade away all the players who might not be "Tony guys". We add guys like Perez, slap hitters of questionable offensive talent, and it seems we're continuing to try to build a National League squad, one with less power than most National League squads I should add, in the American league. No matter how this all turns out, whether or not we get something for Sanchez, the fact of the matter is that we're not addressing the real problem, and that's the manager.

I think Tony has some blackmail pics of someone...

I've had it. From this day forward, as long as Tony Muser is the manager of this team, win or lose, I am not going to another Royals game. And that's a shame, because I love going to the "K," barely 15 minutes from my house. But I've had enough. We lose the popular guys, Damon and now Dye, but we keep the guy who is probably the most unpopular guy in KC, and for good reason. It boggles the mind. No first-time manager, a guy who has never proven a damn thing - no ring, no pennent, not even a winning record, ever... - should still have a job when the team is 20 games under .500 in July.

I'm so frustrated I can't even put it into words right now.

And this trade - this trade...

It's like if the Chiefs in 2003 decide there's no way they can resign Tony Gonzalez, so they trade Derrick Alexander for Kyle Brady. :rolleyes:

07-25-2001, 08:10 PM
Face it folks, Kansas City will not have a major league baseball franchise in the next 5 years. Glass is a discounter, and unless huge concessions are made in the upcoming labor war, he will find someone willing to pay him 150 mil, and move them to Portland, San Antonio, or somewhere. He is going to keep the payroll low, to make it more enticing. I laughed about talk of a downtown stadium. Say goodby to the Royals, and thanks for the memories.

07-25-2001, 08:21 PM

Have no problem with your view on baseball but regarding football where have you been for the last 10 years???

"Doesn't Oakland get enough pleasure screwing us every ...."

What? Chiefs have kicked Raider *** lately...not counting last season. Give a little credit where it is due. I do not have that stats in front of me, but it has been very dominant in favor of the Chiefs!

Hope to see that keep up no matter how the season goes.

07-25-2001, 09:19 PM
It has been real hard to support this team. Went to 1 game this year they lost by a run outfielder drop a fly ball that lead to a run wich is what they lost by in the end. The fireworks were alright though :o

Pitt Gorilla
07-25-2001, 11:07 PM
I was referring to last season. I have no idea where you got the "every."

07-26-2001, 02:02 AM
I didn't like to see Jemaine go but let's face it Dye was good as gone. I won't even get into the Manager thing because I like Tony Muser but I also see why some would like to personally drive him outa town. I am just happy to not see these players being put on the trading block

Mike Sweeney
Kris Wilson
Luis Alicea
Carlos Beltran
Mark Quinn
Dee Brown
Raul Ibanez

I would like to see go

Jeff Suppan
Jose Rosado
Dave McCarty

Rey is good as gone too, it was already announced that Perez will be starting at SS in 2 days

KC is building not rebuilding

07-26-2001, 02:31 AM
I'm going to revise my opinion a bit, because if you look at it, this deal really doesn't save them much money, as Perez is going to want and get in arbitration a nice chunk of change, and if they want to sign him to an extension he wants good money for a shortstop of his ability. So they weren't really cutting payroll so much as they were replacing Sanchez, whose agent Boras has apparently decided he will not resign with the Royals. So you have the argument about whether or not it is that important to fill the shortstop hole for next year. Apparently Baird feels by next year the pitching will be good enough sfor them to win some ballgames, so it was important for him to fill that spot. We'll see. Now the question is who goes into right to replace Dye? The answer to that seems to be that Dee Brown will get the left field job everyday eventually, while they move Quinn to right and bring up Ken Harvey and stick him at DH or rotate he and Sweeny between DH and first base.

The entire key for this deal will be what can Baird get for Rey Sanchez? If he can get a hot young pitcher for him, then bravo, maybe we will have a shot at getting better. But if he can't get squat for him, then it essentially becomes a deal to replace Sanchez and nothing more, which isn't good enough. So hopefully something regarding Sanchez will get done.

Bottom line for me though, I'm not interested in who plays for the Royals or not, I'm interested in W's. If these moves by Baird eventually turn into W's, then that is the bottom line. We shall see. But I wholehartedly agree with the sentiment that in order to have a shot at seeing some W's, Tony Loser must be fired...

07-26-2001, 07:19 AM
I think the trade was both good and inevitable. Dye had the most trade value and salary burden, and it was obvious that with 4 starting caliber outfielders (Dye, Beltran, Quinn, & Brown), and the minor-league 1st Baseman Harvey (?) on the horizon, that someone had to go. Quinn and Brown have too much potential and too low a price to ship them. Beltran is a solid centerfielder with great promise who's getting back to form (and is cheap). Sweeney isn't going anywhere, and will now see a big contract to keep him here. Harvey (?) will be on the roster later this year and rotate with Sweeney between 1st and DH, with Sweeney occassionally playing outfield. Plus, Quinn, Brown, and Harvey have more power potential than Dye IMO.

And Perez is an upgrade at SS and 8 years younger. He's also a team leader, which the Royals need. Perez at SS gives them more flexibility in terms of contracts and potential trade value if Berroa develops faster than thought. Or maybe he gets signed long-term and plays wherever Berroa and Febles don't if one of them can't cut it as a starter. If the Royals trade Sanchez, they'll get a pitcher who can join the staff pretty quickly. if they don't trade him they'll get a high draft pick. Frankly, I think the Royals made the best of the situation.

I just don't see all the doom and gloom that Royals fans are talking. I remember when the Royals traded for Dye, and what an outcry there was. Now the same outcry when he goes. If you want to blame someone, blame Scott Boras, he set things in motion.

07-26-2001, 07:47 AM
At least it wasn't the Yankees -- if you want to blame someone -- BLAME THE PLAYERS. If this team is at or near .500 and is better than .500 at home -- this trade doesn't happen. No leadoff hitter, no shortstop after this year, no offense from 3rd base and no spark. They have played flat all year. If Glass doesn't want to win, why trade for Mayne or Byrd? Both were pretty good acquisitions. Why spend the money for Roscoe Crosby (he may never make it). If Dye is having a good year, then maybe it's Quinn that goes. I don't like this trade because I hate to see class individuals leave the organization and KC in general. But face it folks -- if this team doesn't start winning, they won't draw enough to stay afloat andwe'll lose them anyway. If you want to keep players like Dye, then we need 30,000 at every game not 13,500. They days of developing players at the major league level are over, now they better produce as a TEAM or changes are going to be made

07-26-2001, 08:41 AM
Royal Fans,

I can empathize with you guys. I have watched the Brewers make stupid trades for years. Gary Sheffield, Greg Vaugh, Troy O'leary, Dante Bichette, and Paul Molitor all played for Milwaukee and either left or got traded for GARBAGE. Sheffield almost hit for the triple crown his first year with San Diego and has a legit shot at 500 homers. The Brewers got Jose Valentin, Matt Mieske, and Ricky Bones (Royals fans should be familiar with him). None of them are with the Brewers now. For Greg Vaughn, the Brewers got some stiff who isnt in the league anymore. Bichette got traded for Kevin Reimer and then hit 45 homers for the Rockies. The Brewers drafted Nomar Garciapara but refused to give him a 100K signing bonus so he went to school and got redrafted by the Red Sox.

Yea, the ability to spend money plays a big role in how well a small market team does. There is not much room for error. But teams like Milwaukee and KC will continue to stay on the bottom when bone-headed moves are made like the Royals made yesterday. Both players make the same amount of money. I just cant believe that David Glass thinks that Neffi Perez will have more of an impact than Jermaine Dye.

Horrible, horrible trade.

07-26-2001, 10:15 AM
Trading off good young talent before a new collective bargaining agreement can be reached seems a bit curious to me. The Royals did not even attempt to resign Dye to a new contract, even though he still had one year left on the old one. WTF?

Why would the Royals discard their only starting All Star in the 1990's. Why would you trade one of your 2 best power and RBI men in the lineup to get a slap hitting, average running shortstop. Before you get into the BS about Sanchez, I find it hard to believe that we could not have Angel Berroa ready to play in the Majors by Spring 2002 (He's doing quite well in AA Wichita right now). So you would have Beroa at SS and Feebles @ 2nd. Therefore the Dye trade makes no sense.

This all smacks of something evil. It looks and smells like Glass is carving the payroll, keeping the team chalked full of minor league talent (including the Manager), in attempts to sell the team off after a failed collective bargaining agreement. This sucks:mad:

I'm tired of holding out hopes for this team. What are we really rooting for? You get these guys mature enough to contribute and they trade their butts away (for nothing in return). IMO, there is little to root for and little hope that this team has a plan to buld a contender in KC. We have, unfortunately, been relegated to the farm system for MLB's elite until it's time to put the "For Sale" sign in the front yard of Kaufman Stadium.

Sad, sad, sad......

~Still has an autographed ball and ticket from the 7th game of the '85 World Series (different team, different era)