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BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 02:08 PM
After compiling my notes from the past season, I'm willing to formulate a 2008 draft plan, prior to the combine and Bowl games, after all Carl will be going on vacation, soon, so somebody needs to look out for the team. LOL. Hopefully, it will be a permenant vacation for him.

1st round- Trade down to 16, Draft OT Sam Baker, pick up an additional 2nd rounder AND 3rd rounder. 5th overall pick is worth 1700 points, that equals the 16th overall pick, plus their picks in the 2nd and 3rd round. Great value...Sam Baker has 3 years experience as a LT for USC. He's all-Pac-10 and Walter Camp All-American. He's got skills and experience and we net some great picks, too. Baker has tremendous upside.

2nd round- DT, Frank Okam, from the University of Texas. Okam has been one of the leaders of the 10th best run defense in the country, this past year. Allowing only 61.2 yards rushing per game. In 38 career starts, and a total of 49 games played in, Okam has 157 tackles, 10 sacks, 27 tackles for loss, 1 forced fumble, and 5 fumble recoveries. Okam is 6' 5", 320 lbs. and could become the nose tackle that we desperately need. Texas also produces some of the best DTs in the league. I believe Okam will continue the trend.

2nd Round(after the trade down in 1st round) MLB, Tavares Gooden, from the University of Miami. Gooden was the 2007 player of the year. He's lightning fast for a MLBer and he has a nose for the ball. He led the team this past year with 96 tackles. Gooden can play every LBing position on the field.

3rd round, C, Mike Pollack, from ASU. All pac-10 in 2007. 2nd team All-Pac 10 in '06. Rated as the 2nd best Center in the upcoming draft. Great value early in the 3rd round.

3rd round, CB, Charles Gooden, Iowa. 2007 2nd All-Big 10 team. 65 tackles and 5 Ints, 9 passes defensed in '07. Gooden is 6'1" , 208 lbs. and he has 4.38 speed. Gooden would immediately upgrade the secondary with his ball-hawking skills.

4th Round-RG, Arkansas, Robert Felton is a 3 year STARTER for the razorbacks. Who has played both RG and RT. Felton has been credited with being one of reasons while Arkansas had such a dominating run game. 2007 All SEC 1st team. Felton would be the RG staple in my plans.

5th Round-RT, Kirk Barton, Ohio State, In 2007, Barton was 1st team, All-Big 10 and AFCA coaches All-America team. He's also credited at being the key blocker for the Buckeyes. Future RT as a Chief.

5th Round-LG, Martin O'Donnell, Illinois. O'Donnell was 1st team All-America in 2007. 4 year starter at LG. O'Donnell lead the Illini, to the 6th best rushing attack in the nation and averaged less than one sack per game for the entire offensive line. Waters future replacement and quality depth.

6th Round-SS, D.J. Wolfe, University of Oklahoma. Wolfe is a SS that plays like a linebacker. wolfe loves to hit and it shows. 2nd team All-Big 12 in 2007. Wolfe has been a key component of OU's defense.
I believe Wolfe could push Pollard for a starting position.

7th Round- FS, Joe Fields, Syracuse. 2nd team All-Big 10 in 2007. Led team with 97 tackles. Had 4 Ints.



I believe thse moves alone would improve the team by leaps and bounds. Thoughts?

Count Zarth
12-26-2007, 02:09 PM
Jesus, anyone but that small fry Baker.

And I'd bet anything Niswanger is the starting center next year.

Short Leash Hootie
12-26-2007, 02:10 PM
how funny would it be if this is EXACTLY how everything played out? I'd give you a Mountain Dew gamer fuel drink.

SBK
12-26-2007, 02:12 PM
how funny would it be if this is EXACTLY how everything played out? I'd give you a Mountain Dew gamer fuel drink.

No you wouldn't. You'd say you would then you'd welch.
:p

Count Zarth
12-26-2007, 02:15 PM
I'll be disgusted if we draft Sam Baker. Look at him next to Long and Clady. He doesn't pass the eye test as an NFL OT.

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6582/sambakerplayboy2007ag6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 02:15 PM
Jesus, anyone but that small fry Baker.

And I'd bet anything Niswanger is the starting center next year.
6' 5" and 312 lbs is small fry? Due some research. Jake Long is two inches taller and only 3 lbs. heavier. Sounds like Baker will have a better central mass to be hold his ground just as well as Long. Baker also has alot of experience at LT.

Deberg_1990
12-26-2007, 02:17 PM
I'll be disgusted if we draft Sam Baker. Look at him next to Long and Clady. He doesn't pass the eye test as an NFL OT.



Well thank god the NFL scouts have the reliable GoTurd Eye test to rely upon!!!

StcChief
12-26-2007, 02:19 PM
If we get half of these I'd be happy

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 02:19 PM
I'll be disgusted if we draft Sam Baker. Look at him next to Long and Clady. He doesn't pass the eye test as an NFL OT.

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6582/sambakerplayboy2007ag6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)The eye test? Sounds like Carl's evaluation plans. Look at pictures determine who's the best. That's ****ing idiotic.

Count Zarth
12-26-2007, 02:21 PM
Mark my words. Sam Baker = BUST.

Count Zarth
12-26-2007, 02:22 PM
THIS is an NFL OT. Holy ****! Look at that beast.

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/5817/77316776kz8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 02:23 PM
Mark my words. Sam Baker = BUST.
Sure he does. He only has THREE YEARS as a STARTING LT to say otherwise. The eye test is ****ing absurd.

Sure-Oz
12-26-2007, 02:27 PM
THIS is an NFL OT. Holy ****! Look at that beast.

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/5817/77316776kz8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
who is that?

Mecca
12-26-2007, 02:27 PM
I watch Baker play all the time.....he isn't going to be a great LT, he may need to switch positions. Physically he is maxed out, he's not a terrible pass blocker but he's not a good run blocker..he can be bull rushed...I could see him being physically dominated at the NFL level at times.

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 02:28 PM
Using your logic, Trezelle Jenkins was the best LT to ever play the game. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean better, especially when you consider Baker's size.

Here's Trezelle for you...

Trezelle Jenkins
Trezelle Samuel Jenkins
Position: OT/T
Height: 6' 7'' Weight: 323
Born: 3/13/1973, in Chicago, IL, USA
High School: Morgan Park (Chicago, IL)
College: University of Michigan

Count Zarth
12-26-2007, 02:28 PM
who is that?

Gosder Cherilus.

Count Zarth
12-26-2007, 02:29 PM
Using your logic, Trezelle Jenkins was the best LT to ever play the game. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean better, especially when you consider Baker's size.

Here's Trezelle for you...

Trezelle Jenkins
Trezelle Samuel Jenkins
Position: OT/T
Height: 6' 7'' Weight: 323
Born: 3/13/1973, in Chicago, IL, USA
High School: Morgan Park (Chicago, IL)
College: University of Michigan

That's not using my logic whatsoever. This is examining Sam Baker in a vacuum. He's a tiny piece of shit that is not worth a first-round draft pick, ESPECIALLY FOR AN OL HUNGRY TEAM.

Pablo
12-26-2007, 02:32 PM
I watch Baker play all the time.....he isn't going to be a great LT, he may need to switch positions. Physically he is maxed out, he's not a terrible pass blocker but he's not a good run blocker..he can be bull rushed...I could see him being physically dominated at the NFL level at times.Stop using logical deduction to evaluate a player. Where's the Mecca eye-test?

We all know that's the standard for evaluating players.

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 02:33 PM
That's not using my logic whatsoever. This is examining Sam Baker in a vacuum. He's a tiny piece of shit that is not worth a first-round draft pick, ESPECIALLY FOR AN OL HUNGRY TEAM.
Okay, 6'5", 312 lbs. is tiny. :rolleyes: Just say you don't like him and move on. Throwing stupid ass shit around like he doesn't look like a LT is absurd, especially when you are comparing him to two of the biggest players in the upcoming draft. He'll take on DEs and LBers, not other LTs.

Count Zarth
12-26-2007, 02:37 PM
Okay, 6'5", 312 lbs. is tiny.

There is no way Sam Baker is 6-foot-5. Mark my words. He will not be measured at 6-5 at the combine.

Deberg_1990
12-26-2007, 02:39 PM
Throwing stupid ass shit around

Thats standard Modus operandi for GoTurd. He tries to pass this garbage off as legitimate journalism to inflame the masses. Havent you learned by now??

Count Zarth
12-26-2007, 02:45 PM
Thats standard Modus operandi for GoTurd. He tries to pass this garbage off as legitimate journalism to inflame the masses. Havent you learned by now??

WTF? It's a post on a message board. I'm not trying to pass it off as anything.

Mecca
12-26-2007, 02:46 PM
The reason I don't like this draft...is 16 is to far to drop down for 1. This teams first pick needs to be a pro bowl level player, a core player. Regardless of what position he plays, this team shouldn't be taking Oline be damned they should be taking the best player.

The Bad Guy
12-26-2007, 02:51 PM
If we trade out of the 4-5 pick for that package, and draft Sam Baker, I will throw my ****ing new 61 inch TV out the window. That draft is horrible.

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 03:00 PM
The reason I don't like this draft...is 16 is to far to drop down for 1. This teams first pick needs to be a pro bowl level player, a core player. Regardless of what position he plays, this team shouldn't be taking Oline be damned they should be taking the best player.
It's dropping down 11 spots and in the process we net additional 2nd and 3rd rounders. Please list the KNOWN Pro Bowlers in the upcoming draft? They're ALL rookies, some translate better than others, but there isn't a guarantee for any team picking. Baker is also slated to go around 16. If we wanted, we could consider Oher at around 20-22 range. That said, I've done the research. The players I picked are all good value for when and where they are picked. The draft is heavy for O-lineman value, but that doesn't mean we ignore the position all together. Most of the other positions are reaches were they are slated.

I would have picked Long at the number 5 overall pick, but I don't honestly believe he will be there. I don't believe Chris Long, McFadden, or Dorsey will be there, either. That's spells out trade down to me.

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 03:02 PM
If we trade out of the 4-5 pick for that package, and draft Sam Baker, I will throw my ****ing new 61 inch TV out the window. That draft is horrible.
Don't sugarcoat it, tell us how you really feel. :rolleyes: Let's see your draft , Mr. Expert.

Mecca
12-26-2007, 03:03 PM
If the Chiefs pick 4th or 5th and want to trade down they should only drop 3 or 4 spots at most to still ensure a shot at a top of the line guy.

I'd much rather only get 1 extra first day pick and still get a Sedrick Ellis.

bowener
12-26-2007, 03:03 PM
Since I am new here I do not know, but how many times on average does GOATSE say, "mark my words," in any given thread?

bowener
12-26-2007, 03:06 PM
Mecca, I think you are a USC fan, is Baker good?

Groves
12-26-2007, 03:09 PM
I'd like to try and catch said appliance, let me know.

Mecca
12-26-2007, 03:11 PM
Mecca, I think you are a USC fan, is Baker good?

He's ok, He certainly isn't going to fix any OL issues, he's not a cornerstone. I think he's probably going to end up switching positions at the NFL level.

The biggest problem with him is physically he's not dominating while being maxed out, kind of like Ferguson was/is. He's not a power player either, his whole game is finesse.

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 03:11 PM
Here's SOME footage on Baker for those that would like help form their own opinions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq8Hp88nuHU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4uz-TKbuxM&feature=related

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 03:13 PM
He's ok, He certainly isn't going to fix any OL issues, he's not a cornerstone. I think he's probably going to end up switching positions at the NFL level.

The biggest problem with him is physically he's not dominating while being maxed out, kind of like Ferguson was/is. He's not a power player either, his whole game is finesse.How is throwing guys out of your way finesse?

Mecca
12-26-2007, 03:14 PM
I could name at least 5 guys from SC in this draft I think will be better pro's than Baker.

Mecca
12-26-2007, 03:15 PM
How is throwing guys out of your way finesse?

Have you watched SC play as much as I have....UCLA has a 235lb end...so if you are going to use that game...

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 03:18 PM
Have you watched SC play as much as I have....UCLA has a 235lb end...so if you are going to use that game...
I'm not finding much footage for Baker, but I know he's alot better than some have suggested. I've seen him play in a handful of games and I've always walked away thinking he plays with alot of technique and heart.

Mecca
12-26-2007, 03:21 PM
Baker plays with technique because he's not physically imposing or dominant. He is more finesse than power, there's really no question about that....

Baker is a lot like Hali in that he could probably be a solid RT that gets by on technique. Thing is just like Hali he is physically maxed out and doesn't have much upside at all.

Mecca
12-26-2007, 03:26 PM
Chris Long is a much more dominating college player than Sam Baker is...

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 03:26 PM
The fact is, the draft isn't very deep this year. Even the top guys have some question marks, more so this year, than most.

Mecca
12-26-2007, 03:28 PM
Actually, it's deep at OT and CB, you can get good starting OT's and Corners in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year...

OT just has no top end elite guy, I like the idea of taking Ellis because after he and Dorsey there are no DT's.

Pablo
12-26-2007, 03:33 PM
Actually, it's deep at OT and CB, you can get good starting OT's and Corners in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year...

OT just has no top end elite guy, I like the idea of taking Ellis because after he and Dorsey there are no DT's.I have no issue with taking Ellis. I'd much rather sure up either side of the line, and the defensive line only needs one component to be successful, while the offensive line needs everything.

On a side note, is Mustaine supposed to be the go-to guy next year, or is he just competing for the job at USC?

Mecca
12-26-2007, 03:36 PM
It's going to be him or Mark Sanchez, they were both 5 star recruits so it will just come down to who performs better.

Going in, knowing how Pete does things, they'll be equal and it will be whoever wins the job.

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 03:38 PM
Actually, it's deep at OT and CB, you can get good starting OT's and Corners in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year...

OT just has no top end elite guy, I like the idea of taking Ellis because after he and Dorsey there are no DT's.
Okam is better than you think.

It's obvious, I'd much rather have Dorsey, but I just don't believe he will be available when we pick. Ellis is a damn good player, but I don't believe he is head and shoulders better than having Okam, Gooden, AND Pollack.

Ellis will be a better pass-rushing DT and Okam will be a better run stopping DT. We could definitely use both types of DTs, but I had to consider all of the Chiefs needs. Believe me, I'd be stoked to have Ellis on the team.

Pestilence
12-26-2007, 03:38 PM
For once I'd like to see someone do a mock draft where we don't trade down.

Chiefmanwillcatch
12-26-2007, 03:53 PM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/dt/sedrickellis.html

Micjones
12-26-2007, 03:55 PM
This draft is solid.

Love the Baker and the two Gooden boys.
You're looking at two Day 1 starters and one guy who should take over for Harris in 2009.

Not crazy about drafting a Center.
I think Niswanger is Wiegmann's replacement there.

I like the other O-line guys as depth though.
And the two Safety picks.

Mecca
12-26-2007, 03:59 PM
That scouting report says what I think of him, he is a perfect cover 2 style DT.

AustinChief
12-26-2007, 05:22 PM
Hate the Baker pick. If at all possible, I would take Jake Long... even if we have to trade UP a few spots (if possible). I do like the Okam pick. He will suprise people. Absolutely impossible to run against.

Coogs
12-26-2007, 05:46 PM
For once I'd like to see someone do a mock draft where we don't trade down.

I'll try one for 4 rounds. I'm going all offense in the first 4 rounds keeping in mind that a better offense will help the defense and it is time for Gun to make some chicken salad out of his 2nd and 3rd round picks from last season.

Here it goes...

1st round LT Jake Long, Ryan Clady, or Michael Oher which everone is best at where we pick.

2nd round OG Duke Robinson Oklahoma

3rd round Kellen Davis TE Michigan State. With Dunn and Bigfoot apparently done, TE becomes a need area as well.

4th round WR Jordy Nelson. A legit #2 to match up with Bowe. And a good return man as well.

Tribal Warfare
12-26-2007, 05:59 PM
1st round LT Jake Long, Ryan Clady, or Michael Oher which everone is best at where we pick.




Never ever reach :shake:

Coogs
12-26-2007, 06:02 PM
Never ever reach :shake:

As of December 26th, I am not sure if any of these guys are a reach or not. Time will tell.

Tribal Warfare
12-26-2007, 06:25 PM
As of December 26th, I am not sure if any of these guys are a reach or not. Time will tell.


Clady is way overrated, and for some reason a draftnik media darling. Jake Long in all honesty is a top 15 pick talent who's a hair better than the solid core depth of the current OTs in the draft. Oher on the other hand could be an all-world stud in the pros like Pace,Ogden, and Walter Jones.

Coogs
12-26-2007, 06:29 PM
Oher on the other hand could be an all-world stud in the pros like Pace,Ogden, and Walter Jones.

Well there you go. If he is in that class of OT's that you have mentioned, and he decides to enter the draft, Oher in the 1st, Robinson in the 2nd, and a WR and TE to get the offense to where it could be productive in 2008.

Then finish the draft portion of rebuilding the Chiefs in the 2009 draft, as I think this is going to be a more than one off-season fix for the Chiefs to be a playoff caliber team again.

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 08:01 PM
Thanks everybody for all your comments and thoughts. Believe me I prefer Oher, but he hasn't declared for the draft, that I know of. I also like the possibilty of moving up for Long, but I wouldn't want to give up a 2nd rounder just to move up two places.

88TG88
12-26-2007, 08:07 PM
Baker was sick in college. He gave up 4 sacks and had one holding penalty in his entire career. He won't be a HOFer but he should be a solid player.

Coogs
12-26-2007, 08:07 PM
Thanks everybody for all your comments and thoughts. Believe me I prefer Oher, but he hasn't declared for the draft, that I know of. I also like the possibilty of moving up for Long, but I wouldn't want to give up a 2nd rounder just to move up two places.

3 wins by the three 3 and 12 teams... Rams, Jets, and Falcons... and we may not have to move up in front of anybody. Very well could be in the #2 spot in round 1.

And in the event of a 7 way tie for 2nd if we would wind up picking 2nd, IIRC we would pick 8th in the 2nd round, 7th in the 3rd round, 6th in the 4th, 5th in the 5th, 4th in the 6th, and 3rd in the 7th.

ChiefaRoo
12-26-2007, 08:12 PM
I'll be disgusted if we draft Sam Baker. Look at him next to Long and Clady. He doesn't pass the eye test as an NFL OT.

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6582/sambakerplayboy2007ag6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Why did the A&M guy wear his gloves and elbow sleeve?

bigdreams1
12-26-2007, 08:20 PM
I like the idea of trading down and getting oher..if not we should be able to get long with the #4 or #5 pick we will have...if we got Duke Robinson in the second i would be a big fan of that too..but i would have to say we let Herm get a solid corner with our 3rd..hes good at finding talent there..he may even find one in the 4th or later...as long as we get a corner ill be happy. OHER, ROBINSON...if there would be perfect though for first two picks...i think donnie avery might be a sleeper in the late rounds for a return man and wide receiver...and the last guy ill mention that it seems no one is paying attention to is Jeff Otah out of Pitt i believe..hes like 6'6 350...beast of a LT. also CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 6'2 corner who runs a 4'3 not bad...

Tribal Warfare
12-26-2007, 08:22 PM
I like the idea of trading down and getting oher.



The way things are going if Oher declares he'll be a top 5 pick

Bump
12-26-2007, 08:23 PM
I don't want to trade down. I want a top 5 pick damnit!

bigdreams1
12-26-2007, 08:24 PM
I guess no trading down than...everything else still good you think? any other sleepers your thinking of?

Coogs
12-26-2007, 08:27 PM
The way things are going if Oher declares he'll be a top 5 pick

With several of the top teams needing LT's (including the Rams to replace Pace, and the Ravens to replace Ogdon) I really think he will come out. Shoot, there could be 5 or 6 teams in the top 10 who you could make a case for selecting an OT early. Knowing that he could pocket a boatload of cash in this draft by going early should/could encourage him to declare.

Delano
12-26-2007, 08:42 PM
Man - this type of shit will be fun after next weekend when the draft order is known.

It will be more fun when underclassmen are all declared and the combine occurs.

Tough to do a worthwhile mock draft until then.

BigChiefFan
12-26-2007, 08:55 PM
With several of the top teams needing LT's (including the Rams to replace Pace, and the Ravens to replace Ogdon) I really think he will come out. Shoot, there could be 5 or 6 teams in the top 10 who you could make a case for selecting an OT early. Knowing that he could pocket a boatload of cash in this draft by going early should/could encourage him to declare.
Let's hope so Oher increases our odds of getting franchise LT in the upcoming draft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyoDhKWBPpA

el borracho
12-26-2007, 09:57 PM
Ellis in the 1st
Okam in the 2nd
No one left alive to see round 3 as Chiefs fans spontaneously combust

Direckshun
12-26-2007, 10:06 PM
1. I doubt the Chiefs trade down.

2. Okam will go in the first round, no way he drops to the second.

3. Considering the help we could use at offensive skill positions and certain parts of our defense, I don't like that you threw five picks at OL.

4. You're drafting interior OL too soon in the 3rd, and if you're going to do that you might as well do it at a position of extreme need, RG, rather than a position where Niswanger's already groomed to start.

Cartman
12-26-2007, 11:09 PM
1. I doubt the Chiefs trade down.

2. Okam will go in the first round, no way he drops to the second.

3. Considering the help we could use at offensive skill positions and certain parts of our defense, I don't like that you threw five picks at OL.

4. You're drafting interior OL too soon in the 3rd, and if you're going to do that you might as well do it at a position of extreme need, RG, rather than a position where Niswanger's already groomed to start.

For the sake of brevity, ditto.

Coogs
12-27-2007, 08:51 AM
Let's hope so Oher increases our odds of getting franchise LT in the upcoming draft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyoDhKWBPpA


Interesting piece on Oher. I have not seen this guy play at all. But you can not help pull for the guy. If he is all that some of you here say he is, then I would not mind him in R&G at all next season.

xbarretx
12-27-2007, 09:11 AM
Hate the Baker pick. If at all possible, I would take Jake Long... even if we have to trade UP a few spots (if possible). I do like the Okam pick. He will suprise people. Absolutely impossible to run against.

well the fingers are crossed my friend :grovel:

BigChiefFan
12-27-2007, 09:23 AM
1. I doubt the Chiefs trade down.

2. Okam will go in the first round, no way he drops to the second.

3. Considering the help we could use at offensive skill positions and certain parts of our defense, I don't like that you threw five picks at OL.

4. You're drafting interior OL too soon in the 3rd, and if you're going to do that you might as well do it at a position of extreme need, RG, rather than a position where Niswanger's already groomed to start.

I'm not sold on Niswanger-he can't even stay healthy and if nothing else, competition is always a good thing. If Weigman hangs it up, where's the depth at the position? The draft is for the long-term. Getting the 2nd best Center in the draft in the 3rd round is a coup in my opinion.