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View Full Version : Whitlock: Chiefs considering moving Waters to Center


dirk digler
12-27-2007, 04:53 PM
If this happens we would be in the market for 2 guards and a left tackle.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7607562?MSNHPHMA

Disappointing Detroit defensive tackles Shaun Rogers and Cory Redding combined to record three sacks against the Chiefs, illustrating just how pathetic K.C.'s offensive line has performed this season.

Taking advantage of undersized center Casey Wiegmann, Rogers and Redding looked like Joe Greene and Ernie Holmes on Sunday. The Chiefs have been unable to control the A gaps all season. To fix the problem, they're considering moving three-time Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters to center next season.

Waters could become the most physical and dominant center this league has seen since Dwight Stephenson

Dicky McElephant
12-27-2007, 04:54 PM
Wasn't Niswanger a decent guard when he was actually playing?

dirk digler
12-27-2007, 04:56 PM
Wasn't Niswanger a decent guard when he was actually playing?

Cerebral offensive lineman who joined the Chiefs as a rookie free agent in 2006 Owns the ability to play all five positions on the offensive line, but is expected to concentrate his time at both guard or center Started at all five spots during his collegiate career at LSU

Mecca
12-27-2007, 04:58 PM
Niswanger sounds like a nice backup because of the versatility....

If they move Waters to center, fine, I just hope they understand that to solidify guard they don't need to use 2 first day picks or drop a ton of FA money.

Tribal Warfare
12-27-2007, 04:59 PM
Herb Taylor must be progressing for this to take place, or they are eyeing Faneca for the LG. It seems like Niswanger will slide in Waters RG spot .

Coogs
12-27-2007, 05:01 PM
Oher in the 1st
Robinson in the 2nd

Count Alex's Losses
12-27-2007, 05:03 PM
I don't like the idea of moving a 31-year old, declining guard to center.

jiveturkey
12-27-2007, 05:04 PM
Didn't Waters start off at Center for us and didn't we have major exchange issues?

I believe that it was against the Raiders and there were two fumbled snaps.

He's a good guard. Let's get ourselves a good Center elsewhere.

Mecca
12-27-2007, 05:11 PM
Oher in the 1st
Robinson in the 2nd

Eesh....you know this team does need corners also and this is a deep corner year...

Coogs
12-27-2007, 05:18 PM
Eesh....you know this team does need corners also and this is a deep corner year...

I know. Two cornerstone studs to start rebuilding the O-line might just do more for the defense than any defensive player we could draft though. LJ has to have holes to run through. That was apparent this season. Give the guy some room to run, and this type of game plan just might have a chance to work. Right down to the play action stuff.

More offense means less defense.

Mecca
12-27-2007, 05:20 PM
LJ is done......they should have never kept him...

If they take a OT first then CB better damn sure be the 2nd pick....good interior lineman can be taken anywhere from 3-5.

Deberg_1990
12-27-2007, 05:25 PM
LJ is done......they should have never kept him...




I dont beleive that. He might not put up 1700+ yards again, but he can certainly still be productive.

bigdreams1
12-27-2007, 05:26 PM
ya you're right mecca about it being a deep corner draft...but its also a good O-line draft..so its perfect for us in my opinion..if we could get Oher and Robinson that would be a dream..and im sure Herm can get a free agent guard for waters slot...sounds good to me...we should be able to get a solid cb in the 3rd

bigdreams1
12-27-2007, 05:27 PM
i think LJ is pretty solid still though..just doesnt have a line worth a damn...he needs to get a head of steam than hes unstoppable...and kolby will be a nice 1-2 punch

jjchieffan
12-27-2007, 05:27 PM
Niswanger sounds like a nice backup because of the versatility....

If they move Waters to center, fine, I just hope they understand that to solidify guard they don't need to use 2 first day picks or drop a ton of FA money.

I am so glad that you understand this stuff so much better than an NFL GM. Folks we have Carls replacement here. Mecca for GM. PBJ

Mecca
12-27-2007, 05:28 PM
If you want to go pure values and all that the best thing the Chiefs could do....

Would be if they picked 4th to try to drop to say 6th or 7th, get a 2nd rounder, possibly something else...

Take Sedrick Ellis, get an OT and a CB in the 2nd and a G in the 3rd...that's unlikely but that would be a draft people would be thrilled with.

Mecca
12-27-2007, 05:29 PM
I am so glad that you understand this stuff so much better than an NFL GM. Folks we have Carls replacement here. Mecca for GM. PBJ

Just remember who wanted Antonio Cromartie and Ko Simpson :p

el borracho
12-27-2007, 05:35 PM
I am so glad that you understand this stuff so much better than an NFL GM. Folks we have Carls replacement here. Mecca for GM. PBJ
Mecca would be 3 giant steps up from Carl Peterson.

aturnis
12-27-2007, 05:35 PM
Why not get D'Angelo Hall for CB? Then we could still get some stud O-linemen in the draft. It works great in my head...other than the fact that D. Hall is sick of playing for a losing team.

el borracho
12-27-2007, 05:36 PM
If you want to go pure values and all that the best thing the Chiefs could do....

Would be if they picked 4th to try to drop to say 6th or 7th, get a 2nd rounder, possibly something else...

Take Sedrick Ellis, get an OT and a CB in the 2nd and a G in the 3rd...that's unlikely but that would be a draft people would be thrilled with.
Proof. I would do cartwheels if the Chiefs did this.

BigMeatballDave
12-27-2007, 05:36 PM
Take Sedrick Ellis, get an OT and a CB in the 2nd and a G in the 3rd...A USC product. Shocking you would want him. :) I'd be OK with this...

Mecca
12-27-2007, 05:37 PM
Now that's if you aren't a proponent of drafting a QB, I haven't really fully thought about all those scenarios yet.

aturnis
12-27-2007, 05:37 PM
Just remember who wanted Antonio Cromartie and Ko Simpson :p

I wanted Jessica Simpson...does that count?

Mecca
12-27-2007, 05:38 PM
A USC product. Shocking you would want him. :) I'd be OK with this...

LOL, I just use him because after him the DT class drastically drops off, and Glenn Dorsey won't be there.

Deberg_1990
12-27-2007, 05:38 PM
If you want to go pure values and all that the best thing the Chiefs could do....

Would be if they picked 4th to try to drop to say 6th or 7th, get a 2nd rounder, possibly something else...

Take Sedrick Ellis, get an OT and a CB in the 2nd and a G in the 3rd...that's unlikely but that would be a draft people would be thrilled with.

Thats a nice fantasy.

Chiefs would never do anything that smart.

Mecca
12-27-2007, 05:40 PM
If the Chiefs draft ahead of Atlanta and Oakland I think there are some trade scenarios..one team wanting Ryan the other wanting McFadden, just knowing how Al is.

blueballs
12-27-2007, 05:57 PM
Hall wants LJ + Tony G + J Allen money
proven CBs might costs more than they're worth
Chump + Blight still = so so

blueballs
12-27-2007, 05:59 PM
The game is geared toward offense
someone please inform Herm this

dirk digler
12-27-2007, 06:05 PM
LJ is done......they should have never kept him...

If they take a OT first then CB better damn sure be the 2nd pick....good interior lineman can be taken anywhere from 3-5.

I don't think LJ is done but he might not be the old LJ of the last 3 years.

blueballs
12-27-2007, 06:08 PM
Jamal Lewis is picking it up some now
isn't he - 1176/9tds / '06-1132

RedThat
12-27-2007, 06:19 PM
If you want to go pure values and all that the best thing the Chiefs could do....

Would be if they picked 4th to try to drop to say 6th or 7th, get a 2nd rounder, possibly something else...

Take Sedrick Ellis, get an OT and a CB in the 2nd and a G in the 3rd...that's unlikely but that would be a draft people would be thrilled with.

Im assuming you're a USC fan, have you watched Sedrick Ellis play?

If so, what kind of player is he?

How would you best describe him...Im just curious, and I am wondering if you happen to know anything about him since I don't.

Do you think colt Brennan will be available in the 2nd round? If he is, do you think that would be a good pickup for the Chiefs?

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-27-2007, 06:32 PM
Mecca was pretty critical of Sam Baker, so saying that just b/c the guy is from USC therefore Mecca will be biased is a bit of a stretch.

Mecca
12-27-2007, 06:55 PM
Im assuming you're a USC fan, have you watched Sedrick Ellis play?

If so, what kind of player is he?

How would you best describe him...Im just curious, and I am wondering if you happen to know anything about him since I don't.

Do you think colt Brennan will be available in the 2nd round? If he is, do you think that would be a good pickup for the Chiefs?

Sedrick Ellis is a pass rushing DT basically, a bit undersized but plays with technique and leverage. Always gets doubled yet still manages to beat it and make plays. Ellis is the kind of DT that will remind you of a Sapp in his prime or John Randle that he's a DT pushing 10 sacks. Just a monster of a penetrator and always in the backfield making plays. Something about him is he isn't just some big lazy fat guy, Sedrick Ellis is a every down guy, a guy with a good motor that doesn't take plays off.

As far as Colt Brennan, my view of him is this. He needs time and coaching. But if you watch him play you can see things that you can't teach a guy to have. From what I've seen he's a guy with tremendous leadership skills, a guy who has the ability to rally all of his guys such as when they were down 21-0 against Washington and still won. A guy with the absolute sack to make every throw and not care what happened before. I think he has poise and major intangibles, he's the kinda guy that would throw 4 INT's but still have the confidence in himself to make throws to lead a game winning drive.

He will probably need time to learn to play under center more and his release may be a slight issue. Brennan to me is a guy who needs coaching as far as the way he does a few things. As far as having supreme confidence and just have an "it" factor I think he has it more than any of the other guys do.

I'm not sure he makes it to the 2nd round to be honest with you, I could see 1 of the playoff teams seeing all that and going "lets take a chance he can be our guy in 2 years".

the Talking Can
12-27-2007, 07:19 PM
yea..make a declining player learn a new position.....yea....we so smart

"Herm, we need a CB"

"OK, use Donnie Edwards"

BigChiefFan
12-27-2007, 07:28 PM
Waters was moved to guard because he has a fumbling problem. This also blows Goatie's Niswanger will start next year theory all to Hell.

That said, this plan sucks. A day late and a dollar short.

Sounds like Faneca may be their target-another total Carl move. That said Faneca is a bad ass, who will probably play at a high level for the next few years, but it's just not a move that says rebuild. Herm and Carl may very well know their asses are on the line, so they'll probably go all out next year, trying boost their egos and salvage their careers.

Why float moving Waters this early? They are setting the stage for Faneca or at least getting the masses to believe they tried to get him.


Carl's master scheme is exposed.

Buehler445
12-27-2007, 07:30 PM
Didn't Waters start off at Center for us and didn't we have major exchange issues?

I believe that it was against the Raiders and there were two fumbled snaps.

He's a good guard. Let's get ourselves a good Center elsewhere.

That.

FAX
12-27-2007, 07:36 PM
... He's a good guard. Let's get ourselves a good Center elsewhere.

I feel the same way, Mr. jiveturkey. I think we need to acquire a stud LT and then the left side will be solid for a while. I'm not certain that creating one hole to fix another one is a sensible solution in this case.

FAX

Mecca
12-27-2007, 07:43 PM
It doesn't really concern me that much..a Guard should be able to play Center. If they are gonna go with young guys on the line next year say 2 draft picks then it makes sense to move the "leader" and most experienced lineman to Center with Wiegman being moved out.

They really shouldn't target guys like Faneca who's 30, we've had to many FA's like that. It's better to target the Jake Scotts and Bryant Johnsons.

LiL stumppy
12-27-2007, 07:43 PM
Eesh....you know this team does need corners also and this is a deep corner year...


We also need a new OL. Just like we needed last year.

Mecca
12-27-2007, 07:45 PM
Yea and you think Joe Staley is better than Dwayne Bowe too...

The Chiefs are still going to be a bad football team next year, let's not think this is a playoff team that just needs a couple Olineman. They need all the help they can get at any position.

KC Tattoo
12-27-2007, 07:49 PM
Is it that Whitlock is suggesting this or is this hearsay from Chiefs insiders? & Whitlock is a dumbass if he is to support this assinign move.

Brian Waters is a guard, why don't we get a Center. I know it has been suggested but really why not draft or sign a FA Center?

Mecca
12-27-2007, 07:50 PM
In fairness the Center makes all the line calls, so having a rookie there could cause problems, they might feel more comfortable moving a vet like Waters there and breaking in rookies at Guard instead.

Count Alex's Losses
12-27-2007, 07:54 PM
Is it that Whitlock is suggesting this or is this hearsay from Chiefs insiders?

I've heard it from another source. It's got legs.

KC Tattoo
12-27-2007, 08:04 PM
If a guard (like Waters) can make a transition to Center easier than a rookie at this point it makes a little since then finding the guards should be easier I assume. They have this offseason to work on the exchange with Brodie and Brian. If they have trouble with the exchange part then we are screwed.

FAX
12-27-2007, 08:05 PM
In fairness the Center makes all the line calls, so having a rookie there could cause problems, they might feel more comfortable moving a vet like Waters there and breaking in rookies at Guard instead.

Good point. Where did I get the idea that Niswanger (sp?) was a center?

FAX

Mecca
12-27-2007, 08:07 PM
Good point. Where did I get the idea that Niswanger (sp?) was a center?

FAX

I don't think he's ever gonna be a starter, he seems like a guy who's active as a backup that can play all the interior spots.

Count Alex's Losses
12-27-2007, 08:07 PM
Good point. Where did I get the idea that Niswanger (sp?) was a center?

FAX

Chiefs have played him there in the past.

FAX
12-27-2007, 08:08 PM
Chiefs have played him there in the past.

Was he a guard in a previous life?

FAX

ChiefsCountry
12-27-2007, 08:15 PM
Chiefs could be targeting Lilja as he played left guard for the Colts.

Tribal Warfare
12-27-2007, 08:17 PM
The Chiefs are still going to be a bad football team next year, let's not think this is a playoff team that just needs a couple Olineman. They need all the help they can get at any position.


I concur, with King Carl and the helm it will be hard to get past 6 wins next year because he can't sell "well, you could be the piece to the puzzle that takes us to the SB" anymore to vet FAs

el borracho
12-27-2007, 09:13 PM
I TOLD YOU SO in one of my 1st posts on the planet!!
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=173257&
Genius!

el borracho
12-27-2007, 09:14 PM
Seriously, I'm sad that people on the internet see things long before our coaches and/ or front office see them (if they see them at all!).

dirk digler
12-27-2007, 09:21 PM
Good point. Where did I get the idea that Niswanger (sp?) was a center?

FAX

The Chiefs have him listed as a center. :shrug:

FAX
12-27-2007, 09:26 PM
The Chiefs have him listed as a center. :shrug:

ROFL

Maybe that was it. Thanks, Mr. dirk digler.

So, am I to assume that Niswanger (sp?) has failed to impress the coaches with his abilities at that position? I had also heard that he was an intelligent person which would indicate the ability to make the line calls.

FAX

dirk digler
12-27-2007, 09:29 PM
ROFL

Maybe that was it. Thanks, Mr. dirk digler.

So, am I to assume that Niswanger (sp?) has failed to impress the coaches with his abilities at that position? I had also heard that he was an intelligent person which would indicate the ability to make the line calls.

FAX

Honestly I have no idea he got injured and is on IR now which sucks for him and the Chiefs because they really need to know what he can do.

He did start and play alot at LSU if that helps any

go bowe
12-27-2007, 09:35 PM
I TOLD YOU SO in one of my 1st posts on the planet!!
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=173257& you certainly did...

congratulations...

get yourself some pie and go have a good time...

btw, welcome onboard to you and all the other n00bs who have arrived over the past six months or so... :toast:

MadMax
12-27-2007, 09:35 PM
yea..make a declining player learn a new position.....yea....we so smart

"Herm, we need a CB"

"OK, use Donnie Edwards"


Blah, use Boomer :) or Wilson BRILLIANT!!! I hear Drummond has skills.

Chief Faithful
12-27-2007, 09:35 PM
Waters was the backup center before he was moved into a starting role at guard. This could be a very good move for the team.

FAX
12-27-2007, 09:41 PM
Honestly I have no idea he got injured and is on IR now which sucks for him and the Chiefs because they really need to know what he can do.

He did start and play alot at LSU if that helps any

I was just ruminating on the various posts in the thread, Mr. dirk digler. Apparently, some people think he's a guard and others think he's a center and some think that a vet is the best guy to have at center because he's responsible for memorizing and calling out the line assignments.

I guess I assumed that Niswanger (sp?) was the center in waiting and had the requisite skills for the job. I haven't really heard anything negative about the guy.

FAX

Chief Faithful
12-27-2007, 09:44 PM
Didn't Waters start off at Center for us and didn't we have major exchange issues?

I believe that it was against the Raiders and there were two fumbled snaps.

He's a good guard. Let's get ourselves a good Center elsewhere.

You are right, but he was still learning to play on the offensive line. Solving the exchange issue can be overcome. The bigger question in my mind is his ability to snap in the shotgun formation.

The guy is build perfect to play center. As the strongest player on the team he will hold up well to big tackles and nose guards. He knows the line calls and has excellent leadership skills both important for center. He is a very good guard, but could be the best center in the game.

Plus, I believe it will be easier to find two young guards then a center with the leadership skills, youth, strength, and the experience to make the line calls.

Chief Faithful
12-27-2007, 09:48 PM
I was just ruminating on the various posts in the thread, Mr. dirk digler. Apparently, some people think he's a guard and others think he's a center and some think that a vet is the best guy to have at center because he's responsible for memorizing and calling out the line assignments.

I guess I assumed that Niswanger (sp?) was the center in waiting and had the requisite skills for the job. I haven't really heard anything negative about the guy.

FAX

As you have stated I feel more comfortable with the veteran at center and Niswanger at guard. Niswanger has already proved to be an upgrade at guard over Welbourn, but then again being better than the worst player is not a ringing endorsement.

Chiefnj2
12-27-2007, 10:03 PM
I can't wait for the day Herm leaves. Instead of drafting or developing a center lets move the best, yet aging, offensive lineman on the team to a new position. Damn this team is retarded.

Let's pass on Kalil. Let's not spend a 5th on Gaither. Let's start with Terry and Turley and Welbourn. F'in idiots.

FAX
12-27-2007, 10:11 PM
I can't wait for the day Herm leaves. Instead of drafting or developing a center lets move the best, yet aging, offensive lineman on the team to a new position. Damn this team is retarded.

Let's pass on Kalil. Let's not spend a 5th on Gaither. Let's start with Terry and Turley and Welbourn. F'in idiots.

Yep. It kinda makes you want to sh*t your pants.

FAX

penchief
12-27-2007, 10:20 PM
LJ is done......they should have never kept him...

Why do you always speak with so much certainty? I have no reason to believe that LJ is done. One year of overuse does not equate to a career of overuse. If there is a poster child for talent being underused, it is LJ prior to 2006.

Mecca
12-27-2007, 10:24 PM
416 carries is all I need......he will likely always be an injury prone player that never resembles what he once was...

Now we have to somehow manage to get 3 decent years then cut him.

FAX
12-27-2007, 10:31 PM
It's one of Mr. Mecca's mantras, Mr. findthedr.

Basically, if a Chief fails, Mr. Mecca wins.

FAX

MadMax
12-27-2007, 10:33 PM
thanks, and happy to be here.
I think i've finally found a chiefs site where i wont be censored for not being a complete homer.


That's a good thing about this place, you can make an ass of yourself and they let you :) Believe me I have lol :p

Mecca
12-27-2007, 10:45 PM
LOL, I'm going on history here, that's just how it works, they should have dumped him. Is it some coincidence that history said he'd get hurt..and then he did?

Just like history says Brodie Croyle is injury prone...and he gets hurt all the time.

FAX
12-27-2007, 11:16 PM
I agree with you about trading LJ, Mr. Mecca. As a matter of fact, I took somewhat of a smusherooski on the ol' kabbalongo over that deal. I just don't think last year's carries have much to do with it. I just thought that trading him last off season was the best option. You know, take the money and invest in the lines because nobody needs a highly paid RB if there are no holes to run him through. But noooo.

As far as Croyle is concerned, let's wait and see. People with a smidge or two of objectivity realize that these last two injuries were pretty fleaky.

FAX

mikey23545
12-27-2007, 11:24 PM
I agree with you about trading LJ, Mr. Mecca. As a matter of fact, I took somewhat of a smusherooski on the ol' kabbalongo over that deal. I just don't think last year's carries have much to do with it. I just thought that trading him last off season was the best option. You know, take the money and invest in the lines because nobody needs a highly paid RB if there are no holes to run him through. But noooo.

As far as Croyle is concerned, let's wait and see. People with a smidge or two of objectivity realize that these last two injuries were pretty fleaky.

FAX

QFT

MadMax
12-27-2007, 11:29 PM
QFT

I have to think you are just being a wise ass cause well if not you are really a total prick? Nah you are just stirring up chit. :shake:

beach tribe
12-28-2007, 12:45 AM
I can't wait for the day Herm leaves. Instead of drafting or developing a center lets move the best, yet aging, offensive lineman on the team to a new position. Damn this team is retarded.

Let's pass on Kalil. Let's not spend a 5th on Gaither. Let's start with Terry and Turley and Welbourn. F'in idiots.
The part that really sucks is expecting them to **** up the draft, and add more years on to our sentences.
Being a Chiefs fan is not much fun, and unfortunately it's incurable.

philfree
12-28-2007, 02:09 AM
I'm all for shoring up the o line via free agency and I don't want to ever start any season with a losing mentality. Free Agency is part of the NFL and we have to utilize it just like every other team.....The 3 year rebuild mentality is a losers cause. A team can compete and rebuild at the same time and especially if it's season two of the rebuild.

PhilFree:arrow:

Direckshun
12-28-2007, 02:14 AM
I love the idea of moving Waters over to C.

Micjones
12-28-2007, 02:19 AM
If the Chiefs wound up with Michael Oher and Duke Robinson I'd shit myself.

IF Waters moves over to Center the Chiefs could go after the two Colts Guards or a guy like Kemoeatu or Snee...
Waters would be a beast in the middle.

AND take a kid like Robinson or Drew Radovich...

philfree
12-28-2007, 02:32 AM
I love the idea of moving Waters over to C.
I apprecite the vesatile thinking.....

PhilFree:arrow:

Extra Point
12-28-2007, 08:13 AM
I apprecite the vesatile thinking.....

PhilFree:arrow:

You misspelled "vesicle."

Mr. Laz
12-28-2007, 09:49 AM
they are probably worried about having a rookie make the line calls ...... would rather have a rookie left guard getting the line calls from Waters.


still ........ switching players to a new position usually ends up with teh sux.

HonestChieffan
12-28-2007, 10:23 AM
Sounds to me like taking a lug nut off one wheel to replace one in another wheel...then standing back and realizing we still are missing a lug nut.

Only Herm...God save us.

Bob Dole
12-28-2007, 10:25 AM
they are probably worried about having a rookie make the line calls ......

Does it really matter which defender they whiff on?

Coogs
12-28-2007, 12:07 PM
The Chiefs are still going to be a bad football team next year, let's not think this is a playoff team that just needs a couple Olineman. They need all the help they can get at any position.

I agree totally this this is a two or three year project. That is why I am for the LT in the first, and Duke Robinson in the 2nd. Get the young cornerstones in the draft this year and let them gel with Niswonger (sp), Mcintosh, and Waters. Then, in year two of the project, maybe the O-line becomes a strength of the team. Waiting until the 2nd day of the draft to pick up more O-linemen is what we have done for the past several years, and so far the results have not been so good.

Fix the line. You have to start somewhere. And a solid O-line can cover a lot of p*** poor areas on the football team, including defensive areas by keeping the defense on the sideline.

Micjones
12-28-2007, 12:51 PM
Oher/Long and Robinson #1 and #2 respectively would be a HUGE step in the right direction.

You pair them with Niswanger/Stallings/Herb Taylor and you could have a VERY good Offensive Line in 2-3 years. A great young Offensive Line.