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View Full Version : Marty would be proud.


el borracho
12-28-2007, 10:17 AM
It has just occured to me that the good majority of us want to draft a Tackle in the 1st round of the draft instead of a "skill position" player. That is exactly how Marty built his teams- emphasis on the lines, de-emphasize the skill positions. Is this really the best way to build a perennial winner?

Most dynasties have a pro-bowl QB but with two young question marks (Croyle and Thigpen) it might be a bit early to draft a QB. If they suck we will have another top ten pick next year to draft QB in the first.

We are also locked in to our RB for the next few years so it wouldn't make much sense to spend a top ten pick there which leaves only two "skill positions" left.

Assuming there is a player that warrants the pick the Chiefs should consider taking a WR or a TE in the 1st this year. Now I know what you are thinking: "We just took Bowe last year and we have Tony Gonzalez!" Well, yes, that is true.... but, consider that Parker is probably our 2nd best receiver after Bowe and consider Tony's age and Dunn's contributions in the last few years. Also, consider how extra targets/ offensive weapons would help the young QBs. Additionally, our 2nd and 3rd round picks will be reasonably high so it is likely we could add quality linemen there (or even later, if we are talking about Guards and Centers).

Now, before people get all feisty let me say that I am not advocating a reach for a player. We should take the BPA irregardless of position, even if it is a position where we are already solid (DE, for example). But, if players are close where we pick, we should consider how winners build their franchises.

Baby Lee
12-28-2007, 10:20 AM
UR&ID10T

El Jefe
12-28-2007, 10:21 AM
Yes it's how to build a team, everything starts up front.

BigMeatballDave
12-28-2007, 10:23 AM
Its tough to have quality QB play behind a shitty line.

ChiefButthurt
12-28-2007, 10:24 AM
O-line and O-line. Build the line and the rest will develop.

BigMeatballDave
12-28-2007, 10:24 AM
Marty's problem offensively was ignoring the WR and RB positions.

el borracho
12-28-2007, 10:24 AM
UR&ID10T
Yur ghey

el borracho
12-28-2007, 10:28 AM
O-line and O-line. Build the line and the rest will develop.
Did you guys not see where I said we should take Oline as early as the 2nd? Do you really think there won't be any good Olinemen after the 1st round? IIRC, Nalen (one of the best in the league) was taken in the 3rd. San Diego got at least one of their starting Tackles in the late 2nd a few years ago. The Colts stole Lilja off of our practice squad, for Pete's sake.

el borracho
12-28-2007, 10:29 AM
Marty's problem offensively was ignoring the WR and RB positions.
Right! Let's not do that.

StcChief
12-28-2007, 10:29 AM
Ok so F the line we need a scrambling QB let's draft a new "skill" position player to get crushed :rolleyes:

el borracho
12-28-2007, 10:33 AM
Ok so F the line we need a scrambling QB let's draft a new "skill" position player to get crushed :rolleyes:
Please explain how this, "Additionally, our 2nd and 3rd round picks will be reasonably high so it is likely we could add quality linemen there (or even later, if we are talking about Guards and Centers)." equals "F the line" in your mind.

El Jefe
12-28-2007, 10:40 AM
BCD, where you at in Ohio?

El Jefe
12-28-2007, 10:40 AM
Ok so F the line we need a scrambling QB let's draft a new "skill" position player to get crushed :rolleyes:


Yes the next Michael vick lol.

BigMeatballDave
12-28-2007, 10:41 AM
BCD, where you at in Ohio?North of Wooster, near Akron.

cdcox
12-28-2007, 10:44 AM
I agree with el borracho in that I don't want to take an OL from this year's draft crop with a top 5 pick (if we have one). It looks like the value picks in the top 5 are going to be on the defensive side of the ball or possibly at QB (I wouldn't take McFadden).

I wouldn't mind seeing the 2nd and 3rd picks going to the OL.

We're not going to fix this thing in a single off season. Even doing it in two would be an accomplishment. If you are picking in the top 5, you better land an impact player. I don't see Jake Long as a Pro-Bowl LT and that is the only OL position I'd draft with a top 5 pick.

el borracho
12-28-2007, 10:52 AM
I agree with el borracho in that I don't want to take an OL from this year's draft crop with a top 5 pick (if we have one). It looks like the value picks in the top 5 are going to be on the defensive side of the ball or possibly at QB (I wouldn't take McFadden).

I wouldn't mind seeing the 2nd and 3rd picks going to the OL.

We're not going to fix this thing in a single off season. Even doing it in two would be an accomplishment. If you are picking in the top 5, you better land an impact player. I don't see Jake Long as a Pro-Bowl LT and that is the only OL position I'd draft with a top 5 pick.
Thank you! I swear sometimes people here make me feel like I've gone mad or something.

Gonzo
12-28-2007, 10:56 AM
Is irregardless a word now? I forget...I've heard a lot of people use it recently and it always makes me twinge.

Buehler445
12-28-2007, 11:00 AM
Is irregardless a word now? I forget...I've heard a lot of people use it recently and it always makes me twinge.

Link (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless)

ir·re·gard·less /ˌɪrɪˈgɑrdlɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ir-i-gahrd-lis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adverb Nonstandard. regardless.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1910–15; ir-2 (prob. after irrespective) + regardless]


—Usage note Irregardless is considered nonstandard because of the two negative elements ir- and -less. It was probably formed on the analogy of such words as irrespective, irrelevant, and irreparable. Those who use it, including on occasion educated speakers, may do so from a desire to add emphasis. Irregardless first appeared in the early 20th century and was perhaps popularized by its use in a comic radio program of the 1930s.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

el borracho
12-28-2007, 11:01 AM
Is irregardless a word now? I forget...I've heard a lot of people use it recently and it always makes me twinge.
I think it has always been a word. It is definitely listed in the dictionary although it is noted as being a "substandard" form of the word regardless. I don't know... I learned it from a Brit so I just assumed it was proper English.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2007, 11:03 AM
Yes it's how to build a team, everything starts up front.O-line and O-line. Build the line and the rest will develop.

bull ...... the colts offensive line isn't much better than ours, if any.

the patriot's line isn't anything to rave about.


i made a thread about it somewhere ..... comparing the lines of the top 5 offenses with ours.

Chiefnj2
12-28-2007, 11:05 AM
Marty actually did focus on skill positions when he first came to KC.

Year 1 - first 3 draft picks LB, QB, WR.
Year 2 - first 3 draft picks LB, C, WR.
Year 3 - first 3 draft picks RB, T, WR.

9 first day draft picks 5 of which were used on offensive skills position players.

Gonzo
12-28-2007, 11:08 AM
Link (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless)

ir·re·gard·less /ˌɪrɪˈgɑrdlɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ir-i-gahrd-lis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adverb Nonstandard. regardless.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1910–15; ir-2 (prob. after irrespective) + regardless]


—Usage note Irregardless is considered nonstandard because of the two negative elements ir- and -less. It was probably formed on the analogy of such words as irrespective, irrelevant, and irreparable. Those who use it, including on occasion educated speakers, may do so from a desire to add emphasis. Irregardless first appeared in the early 20th century and was perhaps popularized by its use in a comic radio program of the 1930s.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.


Thank you for the clarification. I still get twitchy though.

Chief Faithful
12-28-2007, 11:10 AM
I don't see an Orlando Pace type talent available in this coming draft so I agree they need to move down and grap extra picks or pick the BPA. The team deparately needs more skill at WR and CB as well as a top notch DT, which I would be please to see with a top 5 pick.

With that said it can't be ignored the OLine has to be rebuilt this year with youth. Svitek or Herbie could be part of the solution at RT, but I'm not so confident with Niswanger at G or C. To me this means they need at least two quality pickups for the OLine this year in the first day of the draft.

Buehler445
12-28-2007, 11:11 AM
Thank you for the clarification. I still get twitchy though.

I hear you. Drives me crazy.

Chief Faithful
12-28-2007, 11:17 AM
Marty actually did focus on skill positions when he first came to KC.

Year 1 - first 3 draft picks LB, QB, WR.
Year 2 - first 3 draft picks LB, C, WR.
Year 3 - first 3 draft picks RB, T, WR.

9 first day draft picks 5 of which were used on offensive skills position players.

Partly because OLine was the strongest aspect of the team when he arrived.

OT - Alt, Eatman, Lutz
G - Adickes, Baldinger
C - Webster

I wish we had a OLine like that today.

el borracho
12-28-2007, 11:17 AM
I hear you. Drives me crazy.
"Get over it." ROFL

Mr. Laz
12-28-2007, 11:18 AM
I hear you. Drives me crazy.
good ..... i'll still continue to use for just that purpose.

Buehler445
12-28-2007, 11:18 AM
"Get over it." ROFL


Nice. Apparently "Irregardless'" fanbase needs to be rebuilt also.

Chief Faithful
12-28-2007, 11:20 AM
bull ...... the colts offensive line isn't much better than ours, if any.

the patriot's line isn't anything to rave about.



You can't really believe that can you? :shake:

Brock
12-28-2007, 11:21 AM
O-line and O-line. Build the line and the rest will develop.

In other words, reach, with no regard for the best talent available.

el borracho
12-28-2007, 11:22 AM
Marty actually did focus on skill positions when he first came to KC.

Year 1 - first 3 draft picks LB, QB, WR.
Year 2 - first 3 draft picks LB, C, WR.
Year 3 - first 3 draft picks RB, T, WR.

9 first day draft picks 5 of which were used on offensive skills position players.
I guess I was thinking more of the late 90s (two consecutive #1s on Tackles). One could also argue that taking Will Shields in the 3rd was a priority since that was our first pick that year.

el borracho
12-28-2007, 11:25 AM
Nice. Apparently "Irregardless'" fanbase needs to be rebuilt also.
You know I was teasing when I said that, right? See, cause our head coach said something stupid and now the chiefsplanet lounge is named that and.. uh... that's why it was funny and stuff... and... uh...

greg63
12-28-2007, 11:34 AM
Yes it's how to build a team, everything starts up front.


Yup! The offense on;y goes as far as the line will take them.

talastan
12-28-2007, 11:36 AM
I believe that we shouldn't reach by any means, but if the first pick comes down to an option between a QB and a LT, both rated the same or very little difference, then IMO we should take the OT with the first. Otherwise trade down for some additional picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds.

GoHuge
12-28-2007, 11:44 AM
Everybody seems to think Jake Long is going to be a stud except everybody here? If we have the option I say take him. If not trade down to throw numbers at all the holes.

cdcox
12-28-2007, 11:59 AM
Everybody seems to think Jake Long is going to be a stud except everybody here? If we have the option I say take him. If not trade down to throw numbers at all the holes.

Every report that I've read says his strengths (power run blocking) and weaknesses (susceptibility to an inside move in the pass rush) point to him being dominant at RT, but needing some improvement to be a dominant LT. Here's one example.

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/story/2007/12/12/211124/62

Baby Lee
12-28-2007, 12:00 PM
Thank you! I swear sometimes people here make me feel like I've gone mad or something.
Fer fuch's sake. There's a gulf of difference between saying 'Jake Long isn't worth a prime pick' and 'Marty built the team along the O&D-lines, and that's a shitty approach.'

Mr. Laz
12-28-2007, 12:02 PM
You can't really believe that can you? :shake:
i do


the colts and pats Offensive lines don't have anymore RAW talent than our guys.

they are better coached ... they work in a better scheme ... they benefit from better play calling.


they LOOK better because they are coached up ..... not because they are stronger/faster etc.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 12:06 PM
There was some other good information posted on the link provided by cdcox. Mainly on the Oher, Clady, and Robinson front for us...

Inside Information Updated!
by MattMiller Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 04:22:29 PM EDT
People close to Ohio State cornerback Malcolm Jenkins tell us the talented junior is 90% sure he'll enter the 2008 NFL Draft.
Another Buckeye, linebacker James Laurinaitis, is also expected to declare soon after the BCS Title Game.
Kansas corner Aqib Talib is expected to declare after the Jayhawks face Virginia Tech in the Orange Bowl.
The Orange Bowl could feature three first-round cornerbacks in Talib, as well as Brandon Flowers and Victor Harris from VaTech.
Oregon safety Patrick Chung appears ready to declare for the draft if he receives at least a 2nd round grade from the College Advisory Committee. Teammate running back Jonathan Stewart is still weighing his decision.
The Oklahoma Sooners could lose a talented group of juniors, namely WR Malcolm Kelly, OG Duke Robinson, LB Curtis Lofton and CB Reggie Smith.
Jamaal Charles has been telling people if he receives a first-round grade, he will leave the University of Texas. This is a very good possibility.
Mississippi offensive tackle Michael Oher is as good as gone from the Rebels without Coach Orgeron there and millions waiting in the NFL.
Boise State is likely to keep running back Ian Johnson, but left tackle Ryan Clady appears close to declaring.
How good could Dan LeFeavour be? One scout we called this morning said to put him as the top quarterback for the loaded '09 draft, even though he's only a junior.
Curtis Painter (Purdue) made himself a lot of money last night with a 540 yard night against Central Michigan. Painter may be the top quarterback in the 2009 class.

el borracho
12-28-2007, 12:08 PM
Fer fuch's sake. There's a gulf of difference between saying 'Jake Long isn't worth a prime pick' and 'Marty built the team along the O&D-lines, and that's a shitty approach.'
Do you disagree that Marty emphasized the lines?
Do you disagree that dynasties are built around skill position players?

Jeez, I'm a Marty fan but even I recognize the flaws.

Baby Lee
12-28-2007, 12:20 PM
Do you disagree that Marty emphasized the lines?
Do you disagree that dynasties are built around skill position players?
1. No I don't
2. I Absolutely DO.

The skill players look so good because the line gives them time.
And every time the dynasties of the past fall apart, it's deterioration of a dominant line that is the precursor.

el borracho
12-28-2007, 12:22 PM
Name one dynasty that didn't have a Hall of Fame QB and elite talent at WR.

Baby Lee
12-28-2007, 12:27 PM
Name one dynasty that didn't have a Hall of Fame QB and elite talent at WR.
It's chicken and egg. They became HoFers because the line gave them time to shine.
If Smith and Aikman had played all of their days in Arizona, they wouldn't have taken them to a SB.
Even then, until this year, the Pats didn't have a WR with the talent of Chad Johnson or Steve Smith anywhere on the roster.
For further data, look up 'Steve Young, the Bucanneer years.'