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Coogs
12-28-2007, 11:57 AM
December 28, 2007:

Boston College vs Michigan State; Champs Sports Bowl; 5 PM et; ESPN… A pretty good case can be made that this afternoon’s Champs Sports Bowl match-up between Boston College and Michigan State has as much talent for the 2008 draft as any contest on the early bowl schedule. BC QB Matt Ryan (#12, 6-5, 235), for example, has been one of the major rising stars of the upcoming draft class; indeed, there are teams around the league that would make the Ryan the first player off the board at the position ahead of the likes o Louisville’s Brian Brohm and Andre’ Woodson of Kentucky. And Ryan could very well be joined in this Year’s opening round by rugged OT Gosder Cherilus (#77, 6-6, 320) and CB DeJuan Tribble (#27, 5-9, 190), although the latter won’t play because of an injury. Meanwhile, the Eagles’ senior class also has plenty of depth including the RB duo of Andre Callender (#32, 5-10, 205) and L.V. Whitworth (#30, 5-11, 222), All-America FS Jamie Silva (#44, 5-11, 205), DE Nick Larkin (#57, 6-3, 255), MLB Jolonn Dunbar (#40, 6-0, 225) and WR Kevin Challenger (#84, 5-9, 185).

Michigan State could also have an impact on the early going at the 2008 draft if junior WR Devin Thomas (#5, 6-1, 215) who doesn’t get that much in the way of national pub, but has been as productive as any receiver in the country this fall. Indeed, Thomas, who runs in the 4.50 range for the 40, caught 76 passes for 1,200 yards this fall and averaged a healthy 28.1 yards per KO returns. The Spartans also have one o college football’s most versatile players in TE Kellen Davis (#80, 6-5, 255) who also plays along the defensive line. MSU also features a big offensive line including OT Pete Clifford (#75, 6-6, 320), OG Mike Gyetvai (#66, 6-6, 310) and C John Masters (#54, 6-3, 285) who combine to clear the road for RBs Javon Ringer (#23, 5-9, 205), an explosive junior pile driving Jehuu Caulcrick (#30, 5-11, 255). Meanwhile, the Spartans defense isn’t as strong as the offense and won’t be helped by the act that star DE Jonal St. Dic won’t play because of academics, although steady MLB Kaleb Thornhill (#41, 6-0, 240), DT Ogemdi Nwagbuo (#99, 6-3, 290), DE Ervin Baldwin (#51, 6-2, 270), and safeties Nehemiah Warrick (#3, 6-1, 210), Travis Key (#13, 5-10, 185) and junior Otis Wiley (#21, 6-1, 210) are solid second-tier types.

Houston vs Texas Christian; Texas Bowl, 8 PM ET; NFL Network… If speed is the name of the game, then pro scouts will be tuned when Houston plays TCU in the Texas Bowl as the Cougars feature two of the fastest players in the country as both WR Donnie Avery (#2, 5-10, 190) and RB Anthony Aldridge (#22, 5-9, 175) run close to 4.3 for the 40. And both have translated that speed into terrific productivity on the field. Avery, who doubles as an outstanding KO return man who averaged over 28 yards a return this fall, for example, had 81 catches this season for over 1,300 yards. For his part, Aldridge, who is smallish by current NFL standards, had over 2,000 yards in total offense this season including 1,600 yards on the ground and another 400 plus on 41 receptions; Aldridge also scored 19 times this season. Meawnhile, Avery combines with rangy WR Jeron Harvey (#9, 6-5, 215) to give the Cougars one of the better 1-2 punches at the position in college football. Other Cougars to watch include OG Jeff Akeroyd (#77, 6-3, 295), junior DE Phillip Hunt (#53, 6-2, 250), LBs Brendan Pahula (#3, 6-2, 240) and Trent Allen (#41, 6-1, 245) and safety Rocky Schwartz (#20, 5-10, 200).

The player under the microscope in the Texas Bowl though, will be TCU DE Tommy Blake (#97, 6-2, 255). Blake came into the season rated as one of the top pass-rushers in the country, but ended up sitting out much of the year dealing with some personal issues. If on his game, though, Blake combines with fellow DE Chase Ortiz (#93, 6-2, 255) to give the Horned Frogs a dangerous outside pass rush. TCU also has a pretty good KR in SS Brian Bonner (#6, 5-10, 200), while FS David Roach (#27, 6-1, 215) and OLB David Hawthorne (#46, 5-11, 225) are solid. And if the offense stalls, the horned Frogs have one o the country’s most accurate PKs in Chris Manfredini (#44, 5-9, 165).

Maryland vs Oregon State; Emerald Bowl; 8:30 PM ET; ESPN… Which team wins this year’s Emerald Bowl may come down to who wins the head-to-head battle between star Oregon State RB Yvenson Bernard (#26, 5-9, 205), a slasher with over 3,700 career rushing yards, and Maryland junior MLB Erin Henderson (#1, 6-2, 236), the more athletic younger brother of Vikings’ LB E.J. Henderson. Bernard runs behind a huge offensive line anchored by OGs Roy Schuening (#67, 6-3, 320) and junior Jeremy Perry (#62, 6-3, 315) who was considered the top player at the position prior to the season but played little because of a leg injury. The Beavers also have a very experienced defensive front sevens which starts al seniors including DEs Dorian Smith (#93, 6-3, 260) and Jeff Van Ostrow (49, 6-3, 265) and LBs Derrick Doggett (#45, 6-3, 210), Alan Darlin (#46, 6-0, 255) and Joey Larocque (#44, 6-1, 220). For good measure, Oregon State also has one of the better kickers in the nation in PK Alex Serna (#13, 5-8, 170).

If LB Henderson decides to stay in school for the 2008 season, the Terps’ best prospect for the upcoming draft should be emerging DT Dre Moore (#92, 6-4, 315), a rugged run stuffer with enough quickness to post 6.5 sacks this season. The Terps will also feature one of college football’s better 1-2 senior punches at RB in Lance Ball (#44, 5-9, 225) and Keon Lattimore (#21, 5-10, 225), while TE Joey Haynos (#880, 6-7, 260) is a decent blocker and improving receiver. Meanwhile, veteran OG Andrew Crummey (#63, 6-4, 305) is a solid interior blocker. The most intriguing Maryland prospect, though, may ultimately be redshirt sophomore WR Darrius Heyward-Bey (#8, 6-1, 205) who is still learning the nuances of the position, but is a former track star who may very well be the fastest player in college football.

chiefbowe82
12-28-2007, 12:12 PM
who

Coogs
12-28-2007, 12:16 PM
who

He is the next Todd Blackledge if we draft him or the next Dan Marino if we pass on him.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 12:32 PM
who

I hope that's a joke...

blaise
12-28-2007, 01:14 PM
Has anyone seen the spoof commercial about KU football? I guess it's like the Mac-PC commercials. I think maybe some Va Tech students made it. They mention it on Deadspin, but I can't see it at work.

http://sqwable.net/kansas-vs-virgina-tech-mac-commercial-spoofs

Mr. Laz
12-28-2007, 01:24 PM
He is the next Todd Blackledge if we coach him or the next Dan Marino if we don't coach him.
FYP

Coogs
12-28-2007, 01:30 PM
FYP

:LOL:

Thanks! :thumb:

Coogs
12-28-2007, 02:08 PM
1 hour to kickoff.

Ryan is a 1st round possibility.
Cherilus is a potential 2nd round LT pick.
Davis is a TE candidate considering Dunn and Bigfoot appear to be finished.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 02:51 PM
10 minutes to kickoff if anyone cares.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 02:58 PM
1 hour to kickoff.

Ryan is a 1st round possibility.
Cherilus is a potential 2nd round LT pick.
Davis is a TE candidate considering Dunn and Bigfoot appear to be finished.

Ryan is a lock top 10 pick, possibly top 5...

Cherilus may go 1st or 2nd...he projects as a RT though.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 02:59 PM
Ryan is a lock top 10 pick, possibly top 5...

Cherilus may go 1st or 2nd...he projects as a RT though.


Sorry, I meant possible first round pick for us.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 03:00 PM
Well I hope people check it out seeing as I doubt many here have seen more than a few minutes of Matt Ryan.

JBucc
12-28-2007, 03:00 PM
I was really impressed with him early on. But then in the second half of the season he kept making stupid decisions in every game I saw.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 03:02 PM
I was really impressed with him early on. But then in the second half of the season he kept making stupid decisions in every game I saw.

Well they essentially ask him to win games by himself, their WR's are awful. Cherilus has NFL talent but the rest of their line has problems, especially their RT who is a freshman that weighs 260lbs.

bowener
12-28-2007, 03:05 PM
Funny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvtelnXOGOE)

:p

Mecca
12-28-2007, 03:10 PM
Like I said he has no receivers...

2 nice throws and his receivers can't help him out.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2007, 03:51 PM
Well they essentially ask him to win games by himself, their WR's are awful. Cherilus has NFL talent but the rest of their line has problems, especially their RT who is a freshman that weighs 260lbs.

Sounds like he'll fit right in with KC.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 03:53 PM
He's not playing to badly so far, when you realize what he plays with what he's been able to do this season is pretty impressive.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:00 PM
I hope you all are watching this..Ryan is showing all facets of the game while essentially being all his team has.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2007, 04:03 PM
I hope you all are watching this..Ryan is showing all facets of the game while essentially being all his team has.

He's playing really well on this drive.

They have NO running game.

JBucc
12-28-2007, 04:03 PM
I'd be fine with taking any of the big 3 QB's in the first round. I like Croyle but if you have a chance to get a QB like that I think you take it. Same reason I would have taken Quinn last year had he fallen another spot.

evolve27
12-28-2007, 04:03 PM
I think I just saw our QBOTF.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2007, 04:04 PM
Great throw, but he'll never have that kind of time in the NFL.

evolve27
12-28-2007, 04:05 PM
Great throw, but he'll never have that kind of time in the NFL.

Never have that time with the Chiefs.

KC kid
12-28-2007, 04:05 PM
Brohm his head and shoulders the best QB in the draft

1. Brohm
5. Ryan
6. Woodson

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:06 PM
The thing you notice right away about Ryan is he's smart. He walks up to the line and checks things and knows when guys are coming when he has time when he has to get the ball out.

He also has incredible pocket presence he knows how much time he has every time, it's uncanny. He isn't fast or overly mobile but he can move just enough to buy time..

The top notch intangibles they're all there.

KC kid
12-28-2007, 04:08 PM
The thing you notice right away about Ryan is he's smart. He walks up to the line and checks things and knows when guys are coming when he has time when he has to get the ball out.

He also has incredible pocket presence he knows how much time he has every time, it's uncanny. He isn't fast or overly mobile but he can move just enough to buy time..

The top notch intangibles they're all there.


Fair enough that you have this opinion, but the BC offense is pretty generic and simplistic

HolmeZz
12-28-2007, 04:08 PM
Brohm his head and shoulders the best QB in the draft

1. Brohm
5. Ryan
6. Woodson

He's head and shoulders the worst of the 3 big QB prospects.

KC kid
12-28-2007, 04:10 PM
He's head and shoulders the worst of the 3 big QB prospects.


You're definitely wrong. Brohm has the quickest release, best footwork, and most accuracy. He also has been in the most vertical offense. He has done it for years at Louisville. You know what you are going to get.

HolmeZz
12-28-2007, 04:11 PM
You're definitely wrong. Brohm has the quickest release, best footwork, and most accuracy. He also has been in the most vertical offense. He has done it for years at Louisville. You know what you are going to get.

You know what you're getting because he has by far the lowest upside of the 3. And he's got the weakest arm by a country mile.

evolve27
12-28-2007, 04:12 PM
You're definitely wrong. Brohm has the quickest release, best footwork, and most accuracy. He also has been in the most vertical offense. He has done it for years at Louisville. You know what you are going to get.

What happened to Brennan?

KC kid
12-28-2007, 04:12 PM
You know what you're getting because he has by far the lowest upside of the 3. And he's got the weakest arm by a country mile.

His arm is not weak. We'll see when the REAL scouting reports come out

HolmeZz
12-28-2007, 04:13 PM
What happened to Brennan?

He sucks?

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:13 PM
It's pretty hard for Matt Ryan to get vertical when he has slow WR's that don't have much talent...

Matt Ryan is winning games for his team by himself for the most part, and doing it under center in an NFL style offense.

Also Matt Ryan looks the part, he doesn't look small, or frail, he's also excellent and avoiding taking hits.

Brohm has some injury questions...

JBucc
12-28-2007, 04:13 PM
Comparing this class of QBs to 06's:

Brohm=Leinart. Maybe the most NFL ready, but with only adequate physical skills.

Ryan=Young. Good physical skills, intangibles.

Woodson=Cutler. Good arm, uh..........played in the SEC.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:13 PM
OK what about that throw Ryan just made, it wasn't caught but that was a hell of a throw.

HolmeZz
12-28-2007, 04:13 PM
His arm is not weak. We'll see when the REAL scouting reports come out

He's got a mediocre arm that looks even worse when compared to Woodson and Ryan.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:14 PM
Comparing this class of QBs to 06's:

Brohm=Leinart. Maybe the most NFL ready, but with only adequate physical skills.

Ryan=Young. Good physical skills, intangibles.

Woodson=Cutler. Good arm, uh..........played in the SEC.

Other than Matt Ryan has top notch intelligence and intangibles, that Young really doesn't.

evolve27
12-28-2007, 04:15 PM
Other than Matt Ryan has top notch intelligence and intangibles, that Young really doesn't.
Matt Ryan for President.

Rudy lost the toss
12-28-2007, 04:16 PM
I don't want Woodson or Brohm for sure. Ryan is still up in the air, but I'd think Miami or Atlanta takes him

Direckshun
12-28-2007, 04:18 PM
Comparing this class of QBs to 06's:

Brohm=Leinart. Maybe the most NFL ready, but with only adequate physical skills.

Ryan=Young. Good physical skills, intangibles.

Woodson=Cutler. Good arm, uh..........played in the SEC.
Brohm is most decidedly not NFL ready. He'll need at least a season with a clipboard to get accostomed to the league, maybe two.

Ryan's the most NFL ready, hands down. He probably can start from day one.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:19 PM
Woodson will have an even higher curve than Brohm does...his upside is higher but he's not as polished.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2007, 04:19 PM
Brohm is most decidedly not NFL ready. He'll need at least a season with a clipboard to get accostomed to the league, maybe two.

Ryan's the most NFL ready, hands down. He probably can start from day one.

Agreed 100%.

I'm not a fan of taking any of these guys with a Top 5 pick, but I wouldn;t jump off a bridge if it happened to be Ryan.

The other two would be HUGE reaches/mistakes.

Direckshun
12-28-2007, 04:20 PM
P.S. I like Houston's Avery as a 4th round pick.

HolmeZz
12-28-2007, 04:20 PM
I don't think any of the 3 should be starting from day 1, but I think Ryan and Woodson are probably more NFL ready at the moment. They've shown a much better understanding of the game and they're both guys who can lead a huddle. Brohm scrapes the bottom of the barrel when it comes to intangibles.

Direckshun
12-28-2007, 04:24 PM
I also like Silva as a low-rounder.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:25 PM
And Bostons undersized freshman RT has an issue.

BigMeatballDave
12-28-2007, 04:25 PM
Has anyone seen the spoof commercial about KU football? I guess it's like the Mac-PC commercials. I think maybe some Va Tech students made it. They mention it on Deadspin, but I can't see it at work.

http://sqwable.net/kansas-vs-virgina-tech-mac-commercial-spoofs<object width="425" height="373"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vvtelnXOGOE&rel=1&border=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vvtelnXOGOE&rel=1&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="373"></embed></object> LMAO

Direckshun
12-28-2007, 04:29 PM
ouch.

chiefbowe82
12-28-2007, 04:32 PM
INT

KC kid
12-28-2007, 04:33 PM
Ryan looked just liked brodie

Its Brohm as the best

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:33 PM
BC having no speed really hurts them.

Direckshun
12-28-2007, 04:33 PM
****, I like Silva as a mid-round pick.

chiefbowe82
12-28-2007, 04:34 PM
BC having no speed really hurts them.

Stop making excuses

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:34 PM
Ryan looked just liked brodie

Its Brohm as the best

When you realize who he plays with and the limitations that offense has Ryan has done a great job this year......even Brohm has a couple NFL rated players with him.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:35 PM
Stop making excuses

They have 0 ability to go deep...all they can do is throw screens short and mid routes.

It's not like we're judging a QB surrounded by NFL talent here, he has no run game and no speed or even good WR.

Direckshun
12-28-2007, 04:36 PM
119 tackles with 8 picks?

I like Silva as a high-round pick.

KC kid
12-28-2007, 04:36 PM
When you realize who he plays with and the limitations that offense has Ryan has done a great job this year......even Brohm has a couple NFL rated players with him.


Oh I have watched enough Brohm to know what he is about. We can argue all we want, but we won't know until they play.


I just have a very strong (and fairly knowledgeable) opinion

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:37 PM
Stats won't really suggest where he gets picked.....if he goes out and runs a 4.7 and is undersized all his stats won't matter.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:39 PM
Oh I have watched enough Brohm to know what he is about. We can argue all we want, but we won't know until they play.


I just have a very strong (and fairly knowledgeable) opinion

I think Brohm sits in a no win situation in some ways. If he puts up big numbers "he's a system guy" when his numbers aren't that big it's "where are his stats!"

I question some things about him like the amount of games he's missed and the amount of injuries/surgeries he's had.

Pablo
12-28-2007, 04:44 PM
Ryan looks pretty good.

He's making all types of throws you'd like a good QB to. I still don't want to draft a QB in the first round, I'm a proponent of suring up either side of the line, but he hasn't made more than a couple bad decisions in the first half, and if we did happen to draft him I wouldn't be upset.

I was fairly certain we would go after OL last draft, and when we got Dwayne Bowe I was kinda pissed. I hadn't watched him, but he panned out pretty well. If we draft Ryan, fine. If we don't, I won't cry myself to sleep. But he's looked pretty good so far.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:53 PM
So I was checking some things out.......

Falcons fans think they'll take Jake Long with their first pick then go with a QB with 1 of their 2 2nd round picks....that would cause a few people's heads here to explode I'm sure....

So if that does happen, can you possibly pass on Matt Ryan?

Steamboat Springs
12-28-2007, 04:55 PM
It's funny how people tend to underrate a guy like Silva saying he's late round material just because they can't come to terms with a white defensive back being that good.

HolmeZz
12-28-2007, 04:56 PM
It's funny how people tend to underrate a guy like Silva saying he's late round material just because they can't come to terms with a white defensive back being that good.

Hey Marlboro Chief.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 04:57 PM
Yes because it has tons to do with him being white....

Pablo
12-28-2007, 04:58 PM
It's funny how people tend to underrate a guy like Silva saying he's late round material just because they can't come to terms with a white defensive back being that good.Or maybe because he's not all that fast?

HolmeZz
12-28-2007, 04:58 PM
Or maybe because he's not all that fast?

That and he's not very big.

Pablo
12-28-2007, 04:59 PM
So I was checking some things out.......

Falcons fans think they'll take Jake Long with their first pick then go with a QB with 1 of their 2 2nd round picks....that would cause a few people's heads here to explode I'm sure....

So if that does happen, can you possibly pass on Matt Ryan?I guess we'd have to give Ryan serious consideration. Maybe Baker or Cherilius will still be around in the early 2nd...

Mecca
12-28-2007, 05:00 PM
He'll probably be lucky to get picked at this point, no matter what his stats are you have to have certain measurables.

ChiefsCountry
12-28-2007, 05:00 PM
So I was checking some things out.......

Falcons fans think they'll take Jake Long with their first pick then go with a QB with 1 of their 2 2nd round picks....that would cause a few people's heads here to explode I'm sure....

So if that does happen, can you possibly pass on Matt Ryan?

I would take Sedrick Ellis or trade the pick.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 05:01 PM
Trading out will be typical Chiefs, they're to scared to make a QB pick in the top 5.

Skip Towne
12-28-2007, 05:03 PM
Todd Blackledge sighting.

Spicy McHaggis
12-28-2007, 05:07 PM
Ryan looks good considering MSU isn't respecting the BC run at all.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 05:09 PM
Even though the numbers are not very good for Ryan, you sort of have to like what he is doing. He looks the part of a stud nfl QB.

The TE from MSU looks like a player too. Pretty ripped fellow. Much like Gonzo. Might be a good pick in the middle rounds as well.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 05:11 PM
Even though the numbers are not very good for Ryan, you sort of have to like what he is doing. He looks the part of a stud nfl QB.

The TE from MSU looks like a player too. Pretty ripped fellow. Much like Gonzo. Might be a good pick in the middle rounds as well.

You mean like Ryan actually looks like a QB unlike Croyle who looks like he should eat something?

Coogs
12-28-2007, 05:13 PM
You mean like Ryan actually looks like a QB unlike Croyle who looks like he should eat something?

Ryan looks like Manning and Brady. Croyle looks like Montana. :p

Pablo
12-28-2007, 05:15 PM
You mean like Ryan actually looks like a QB unlike Croyle who looks like he should eat something?Ryan's 2-3 inches taller than Brodie and weighs 15-20 pounds more.

ChiefsCountry
12-28-2007, 05:15 PM
Trading out will be typical Chiefs, they're to scared to make a QB pick in the top 5.

I would take a QB if he was worth the top 5, I dont think Ryan is though IMO.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 05:16 PM
Ryan's 2-3 inches taller than Brodie and weighs 15-20 pounds more.

That's a pretty big deal....

I still think the 3 top guys this year are better prospects than Croyle is. And next years QB class will be worse...

Mecca
12-28-2007, 05:18 PM
Jesus BC really has no speed, Ryan has the arm to throw it down there and the WR's just can't get there fast enough.

HolmeZz
12-28-2007, 05:20 PM
Looked like good coverage.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2007, 05:21 PM
that wasn't pass interference

Deberg_1990
12-28-2007, 05:21 PM
Ryan looks like Manning and Brady. Croyle looks like Montana. :p


Does Ryan pass the all important GoTurd "Eye Test" ??

Coogs
12-28-2007, 05:21 PM
Dude looks pretty impressive on this drive. Maybe we need his coach for an OC as well.

Pablo
12-28-2007, 05:22 PM
that wasn't pass interferenceYou're forgetting where BC comes from. Everything goes your way when you're from Boston.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2007, 05:23 PM
Does Ryan pass the all important GoTurd "Eye Test" ??

WTF happened to your username?




ROFL

Coogs
12-28-2007, 05:23 PM
Does Ryan pass the all important GoTurd "Eye Test" ??

I'm sorry. I am not following the question. :shrug:

Pablo
12-28-2007, 05:23 PM
BC's recieving corps is pretty impressive.

Edit: Just hit the 4-digit posting range.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 05:24 PM
BC's recieving corps is pretty impressive.

Edit: Just hit the 4-digit posting range.

I hope that is major sarcasm...

Skip Towne
12-28-2007, 05:24 PM
Ryan looks like Manning and Brady. Croyle looks like Montana. :p
I think Croyle looks like Gilligan.

Pablo
12-28-2007, 05:24 PM
Is their kicker a senior?

They said he was something like 43/47 on the year.

Tribal Warfare
12-28-2007, 05:25 PM
The thing I'm noticing from Ryan is he makes "Huard" reads sometimes, by that I mean he throws the ball where the WR could get killed.

Pablo
12-28-2007, 05:25 PM
I hope that is major sarcasm...No. I'm blind, deaf, and dumb. How I even manage to type on this picture type-writer is beyond me.

Pablo
12-28-2007, 05:26 PM
The thing I'm noticing from Ryan is he makes "Huard" reads sometimes, by that I mean he throws the ball where the WR could get killed.He throws a little high sometimes too.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 05:28 PM
No. I'm blind, deaf, and dumb. How I even manage to type on this picture type-writer is beyond me.

Well some people have ridiculously bad evaluation skills...I didn't call you a moron or anything...

I don't think it helps Ryans throws/reads that his WR's are all slow and don't get to spots very well or create much separation so he has to try to fit it in.

Deberg_1990
12-28-2007, 05:32 PM
WTF happened to your username?




ROFL

Stevieray having a bit of fun because i started a Cowboys thread. LOL

Pablo
12-28-2007, 05:33 PM
Well some people have ridiculously bad evaluation skills...I didn't call you a moron or anything...

I don't think it helps Ryans throws/reads that his WR's are all slow and don't get to spots very well or create much separation so he has to try to fit it in.I know. I didn't take it personally..just attempting to be overly sarcastic.

And his recieving corps and running backs give him very little help.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2007, 05:37 PM
Stevieray having a bit of fun because i started a Cowboys thread. LOL
since when is Stevieray a mod?

Steamboat Springs
12-28-2007, 05:48 PM
Hey Marlboro Chief.

Say what?

Steamboat Springs
12-28-2007, 05:49 PM
Or maybe because he's not all that fast?

Have you timed him with a stop watch yet? Wait until he runs in Indianapolis then say that.

Pablo
12-28-2007, 06:03 PM
Have you timed him with a stop watch yet? Wait until he runs in Indianapolis then say that.Certainly have.

My stopwatch only reads out two settings though: Slow and Fast.

He read slow.

Tribal Warfare
12-28-2007, 06:06 PM
Certainly have.

My stopwatch only reads out two settings though: Slow and Fast.

He read slow.


Ryan is fast enough to get a 1st down when a play breaks down

Pablo
12-28-2007, 06:07 PM
Ryan is fast enough to get a 1st down when a play breaks downWe're talking about their DB Silva.

Pablo
12-28-2007, 06:13 PM
That was pretty bad-ass.

Pablo
12-28-2007, 06:14 PM
Did everybody already quit watching this game?

It's getting pretty interesting now.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 06:16 PM
Matt Ryan is out there trying to win this game with no help.

58-4ever
12-28-2007, 06:18 PM
Obviously, I'm not impressed with Ryan. Especially the way he is handling the ball in at the end of this game.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 06:19 PM
Without Matt Ryan they'd have no points, they seriously have nothing outside of him. They can't run the ball, the receivers are awful.

58-4ever
12-28-2007, 06:25 PM
Without Matt Ryan they'd have no points, they seriously have nothing outside of him. They can't run the ball, the receivers are awful.

So, you want him to come into a situation where there is no offensive line, an aging TE and one good receiver? Matt Ryan is not the answer.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 06:27 PM
I wouldn't play him year 1, or well till the end of it....

Also even if you took him first you could still get a OT and at least 1 Guard....

I like Ryan tons more than next years QB prospects, what are we suppose to do wait until there's a can't miss guy in 5 years? By then we'll be mediocre again and win 7 games and then we'll never be able to get a QB.

Pablo
12-28-2007, 06:29 PM
I wouldn't play him year 1, or well till the end of it....

Also even if you took him first you could still get a OT and at least 1 Guard....

I like Ryan tons more than next years QB prospects, what are we suppose to do wait until there's a can't miss guy in 5 years? By then we'll be mediocre again and win 7 games and then we'll never be able to get a QB.Ryan kinda effed himself right there.

By the year 2012, the QB position will be transformed into some sort of uber-ghey QB/RB/WR tandem, and I will die of an aneurysm while trying to watch college football.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 06:31 PM
Ryan kinda effed himself right there.

By the year 2012, the QB position will be transformed into some sort of uber-ghey QB/RB/WR tandem, and I will die of an aneurysm while trying to watch college football.

A guy like Ryan is becoming fewer and far between too as all of these college teams keep going to the spread offense and using guys like Chase Daniel who basically have no NFL future.

How many teams even use FB's anymore or run pro style offenses? SC does but we're almost a rarity anymore.

Pablo
12-28-2007, 06:37 PM
A guy like Ryan is becoming fewer and far between too as all of these college teams keep going to the spread offense and using guys like Chase Daniel who basically have no NFL future.

How many teams even use FB's anymore or run pro style offenses? SC does but we're almost a rarity anymore.Yep..it's pretty sad. It says something when a guy like Tim Tebow looks to be the top pro prospect in years to come. Oh yeah Tebow, great step fake, then fly route right down the sideline. Pathetic.

Right now Sam Bradford seems to be the only hope for young college QB's.

Mr. Arrowhead
12-28-2007, 06:39 PM
I really think we should give brodie another year before we give up on him. Besides that even if we did take ryan, he would get killed anyways behind our o line. If we dont draft a OT in the first, i am gonna be extremely upset

Mecca
12-28-2007, 06:41 PM
It's a deep OT year.....you can get a starter in the 2nd at the position...

I personally even if I took Ryan would start Croyle next year, until Ryan was ready anyway.

Tribal Warfare
12-28-2007, 06:42 PM
I wouldn't play him year 1, or well till the end of it....

Also even if you took him first you could still get a OT and at least 1 Guard....

I like Ryan tons more than next years QB prospects, what are we suppose to do wait until there's a can't miss guy in 5 years? By then we'll be mediocre again and win 7 games and then we'll never be able to get a QB.


Ryan needs to be drafted in the right situation to succeed, because he doesn't have jaw dropping talent to qualify for a top 5 pick. He'll need to picked by the right coach and staff to use his talents properly.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 06:45 PM
He doesn't have the strongest arm in the world...how many guys with huge arms are good? Kyle Boller has a huge arm is he good?

Guys like Matt Ryan end up being good more often than guys with nothing but all the "measurable tools" Ryan has all the intangibles and even his arm is good enough for the NFL level.

the Talking Can
12-28-2007, 06:48 PM
looks like Pennington for better and worse...

Tribal Warfare
12-28-2007, 06:48 PM
He doesn't have the strongest arm in the world...how many guys with huge arms are good? Kyle Boller has a huge arm is he good?

Guys like Matt Ryan end up being good more often than guys with nothing but all the "measurable tools" Ryan has all the intangibles and even his arm is good enough for the NFL level.


Yeah, he'll be good but he'll need to be in the right situation to succeed though, because the guy quite frankly isn't John Elway where he can take a team on his back and win.

RJ
12-28-2007, 06:49 PM
I want the Chiefs to use this pick on the best available player. If the best available player happens to be a quarterback, that's who they should take. And I don't get the "he'd get killed behind this line" argument. Like Croyle or Huard won"t?

I'm not saying we should go in looking to draft QB, but if he happens to be the highest rated player on the board when the Chiefs pick then they should take him.

ChiefaRoo
12-28-2007, 06:52 PM
Hmmm, I like the idea of a Rothlisberger type of a QB. Big, accurate with just enough speed to buy time or get the first if the middle opens up. Is Ryan that guy? If not, I like the idea of taking a stud DT.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 06:55 PM
Hmmm, I like the idea of a Rothlisberger type of a QB. Big, accurate with just enough speed to buy time or get the first if the middle opens up. Is Ryan that guy? If not, I like the idea of taking a stud DT.

That's a decent comparison I guess. Ryan can move just enough, I don't think he has the pure physical talent Roethlisberger does but I think he's better in other facets.

This is probably going to be our only chance to take a franchise QB, right now I say we make the pick and ride with it. You hit on it you just put yourself in position to be good for a long time.

the Talking Can
12-28-2007, 06:57 PM
Hmmm, I like the idea of a Rothlisberger type of a QB. Big, accurate with just enough speed to buy time or get the first if the middle opens up. Is Ryan that guy? If not, I like the idea of taking a stud DT.

i don't see any similarities between Ryan and Rothlisberger...two different QBs...imo

Coogs
12-28-2007, 07:14 PM
After watching the game, I am not sure what to think about Ryan. He was surrounded by bad talent. But he made some good plays as well as some bad plays.

Kind of sounds right about where we are with Croyle. He has bad players around him. He makes some good play as well as some bad plays.

I guess I wouldn't be upset if we took Ryan, but by the same token, I wouldn't be upset if we fix the parts around Croyle either.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 07:15 PM
The Chiefs bad players are in no comparison to the bad players BC has, some of those guys are brutal.

I question if BC could win a game without Matt Ryan.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 07:17 PM
The Chiefs bad players are in no comparison to the bad players BC has, some of those guys are brutal.

I question if BC could win a game without Matt Ryan.

They were ranked 2nd at one time. :shrug:

Tribal Warfare
12-28-2007, 07:19 PM
I guess I wouldn't be upset if we took Ryan, but by the same token, I wouldn't be upset if we fix the parts around Croyle either.


I would because it would be a lateral move, because if a superstud is available hell yeah I'd take him but Ryan's good but isn't an Earth shattering NFL badass sure thing.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 07:20 PM
They were ranked 2nd at one time. :shrug:

I know, which is shocking because in many ways they are a 1 man team, on offense anyway.

I don't think it's a lateral move just because I think Ryan can play 16 games...

Coogs
12-28-2007, 07:21 PM
The Chiefs bad players are in no comparison to the bad players BC has, some of those guys are brutal.

I question if BC could win a game without Matt Ryan.


IIRC, the "roll tide" gang has said Croyle sort of had crap around him too, but he willed the to a 10-1 record or so.

Tribal Warfare
12-28-2007, 07:23 PM
I know, which is shocking because in many ways they are a 1 man team, on offense anyway.

I don't think it's a lateral move just because I think Ryan can play 16 games...


If I'm picking in the top 5, I'm looking for John Elway caliber QBs that are studs in every possible category for playing the position and this year their aren't any.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 07:24 PM
IIRC, the "roll tide" gang has said Croyle sort of had crap around him too, but he willed the to a 10-1 record or so.

Well Matt Ryan isn't made of glass...Like I said I don't think Croyle is untalented. I just think he's better suited as a backup because of his horrendous durability, I don't think he'll ever be able to play 16 games.

If this was madden his durability rating would be like a 15.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 07:25 PM
If I'm picking in the top 5, I'm looking for John Elway caliber QBs that are studs in every possible category for playing the position and this year their isn't any.

And the guys next year are worse...those QB's are rare...I think Ryan is worth it because I think he can be developed into a top notch guy.

Tribal Warfare
12-28-2007, 07:31 PM
And the guys next year are worse...those QB's are rare...I think Ryan is worth it because I think he can be developed into a top notch guy.

This is where we differ, because I believe that Croyle could develop into that also. Again I'm looking for world-beater at the Top 5 position, and Ryan's good but he'll need help.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 07:33 PM
If you can give me any reason to believe Brodie Croyle can be a dependable starter I'd love to hear it....I don't think he'll ever play 16.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 07:36 PM
Well Matt Ryan isn't made of glass...Like I said I don't think Croyle is untalented. I just think he's better suited as a backup because of his horrendous durability, I don't think he'll ever be able to play 16 games.

If this was madden his durability rating would be like a 15.

I wonder if Ryan will be able to hold up as well. Rothlisberger goes out from time-to-time nearly every season. A couple of times tonight, Ryan rolled right into a tackle, and wasn't able to avoid it. And he got belted from the right side once that I saw while looking left right away. Didn't seem like he picked the guy up out of his periphial (sp) vision at all.

The guy has talent as well. That was easy to see. And maybe you are correct about next years crop as well. But just maybe there is some junior out there that will declare early that has the physical tools that Ryan has.

Maybe somebody like Freeman from Kansas State has a bust out year. He is built about like those guys.

Tribal Warfare
12-28-2007, 07:37 PM
If you can give me any reason to believe Brodie Croyle can be a dependable starter I'd love to hear it....I don't think he'll ever play 16.



The kid has all the tools, he reads well( side note: needs to learn that he may have good arm, but can't force balls anymore) mobile enough to get away from pressure, good arm, and is good field general during crunch time.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 07:40 PM
Ok that still doesn't explain, 2 torn ACL's, Torn labrum, the huge knock of not being durable and then he's already been hurt twice in less than half a year of starting.

It's hard to rely on the guy or say he'll ever last.

Also Croyle has so far not shown anything in "crunch time".

Tribal Warfare
12-28-2007, 07:43 PM
Also Croyle has so far not shown anything in "crunch time".


Bears Game watch it

Coogs
12-28-2007, 07:43 PM
Ok that still doesn't explain, 2 torn ACL's, Torn labrum, the huge knock of not being durable and then he's already been hurt twice in less than half a year of starting.

It's hard to rely on the guy or say he'll ever last.

Also Croyle has so far not shown anything in "crunch time".


He is interesting. We have seen him get belted right in the chops hard while delivering a pass, and crawl right up a not even flinch. If he hook slides he doesn't get hurt the first time. Instead he dives head first trying to make extra yards. The second time he is hurt is making a defensive play. Not sure what that means if anything, but both could have been avoided with a little caution.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 07:45 PM
He's just injury prone, some guys are always hurt and it's supposedly "unexplainable" while other guys are never hurt.

It's a freak thing if it happens once, it's a pattern when you're always hurt.

The Bad Guy
12-28-2007, 07:48 PM
Bears Game watch it

You need to re-think your definition of crunch time.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 07:48 PM
Also Croyle has so far not shown anything in "crunch time".

Against Indy, Solari wouldn't call anything to give him a chance.
He did well against the Titans... other areas of the team failed before the INT's. If the other areas play well the INT's probably don't happen.
Against Denver, the defense was so bad we were beat before we started.
Against Oakland Rayner failed him.
San Diego was Huards game.
Detroit was basically Huards game as well, but who is to say if he doesn't get hurt making a tackle he couldn't have done what Huard did given Solari opened up the playbook down by 19.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 07:50 PM
You need to re-think your definition of crunch time.

That was crunch time. Bennett fumbled.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 07:52 PM
You need to re-think your definition of crunch time.

I was thinking the same thing...

In the Titans game what did he show? That when the game is close in the 2nd half he can throw picks? Like the one he fired right to Michael Griffin, when they got behind and it was the next time with the ball what's he do..he throws a pick right away.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 07:54 PM
I was thinking the same thing...

In the Titans game what did he show? That when the game is close in the 2nd half he can throw picks? Like the one he fired right to Michael Griffin, when they got behind and it was the next time with the ball what's he do..he throws a pick right away.


Saw Ryan throw a similar head scratching pick tonight as well.

ChiefsLV
12-28-2007, 07:55 PM
He's just injury prone, some guys are always hurt and it's supposedly "unexplainable" while other guys are never hurt.

It's a freak thing if it happens once, it's a pattern when you're always hurt.


Even if Croyle isn't the guy, that doesn't mean any of the top QB's in this year's draft are going to pan out. You've got a major hard-on for Matt Ryan, we know, we get it. It doesn't guarantee anything.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 07:58 PM
Even if Croyle isn't the guy, that doesn't mean any of the top QB's in this year's draft are going to pan out. You've got a major hard-on for Matt Ryan, we know, we get it. It doesn't guarantee anything.

In defense of Mecca, he has other guys he is pimping just as hard for our top pick. I find this fun to discuss the pro's and con's of the top players in any year. This year having a top pick just makes it all the more fun.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 07:58 PM
Alright then think about the guys the year after..show me who the guy in that draft is...

Ryan throws picks because he's asked to win games without good receivers or well anything.

Tribal Warfare
12-28-2007, 08:00 PM
Ryan throws picks because he's asked to win games without good receivers or well anything.


This applies to KC's O-Line too, at least Ryan has time to throw the ball.Again, if Ryan had Elway talent and could everything including scrambling like a RB then ya I'd pick him.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 08:00 PM
Alright then think about the guys the year after..show me who the guy in that draft is...

Ryan throws picks because he's asked to win games without good receivers or well anything.

I don't really know. Like I said earlier, the kid from Kansas State, Freeman, has all the physical tools. He has whipped Texas twice already. If he puts it together on a weekly basis next year and comes out early....

ChiefsLV
12-28-2007, 08:08 PM
I think it'd be an absolute miracle if Herm took a QB with the fifth pick. Then you'd have to spend the whole year defending the rookie QB while he makes mistakes that YOU KNOW are going to be made because he is a developing QB. Only you'll give him the benefit of the doubt that you won't give Croyle because he is a first round pick and Croyle is a third and Croyle had a "knock" on him coming out of college. And that includes injuries.

Drew Brees had a knock on him coming out of college too. He was too short. Why did Brady last till the sixth round? I'm sure he had some knocks too.

Coogs
12-28-2007, 08:11 PM
Did anybody happen to focus on Cherilus tonight? I sort of forgot to while concentrating on Ryan.

The Bad Guy
12-28-2007, 08:11 PM
Drew Brees had a knock on him coming out of college too. He was too short. Why did Brady last till the sixth round? I'm sure he had some knocks too.

I'm convinced some of you can't comprehend.

It's not a ****ing knock when the guy has had both knees replaced, and has been hurt in 2 of the 5 games he's played in in the NFL.

If you can't stay on the field, I don't care if you're Joe Montana, you can't be relied on.

Why is this concept so hard for people to understand?

ChiefaRoo
12-28-2007, 08:12 PM
If I'm picking in the top 5, I'm looking for John Elway caliber QBs that are studs in every possible category for playing the position and this year their aren't any.

If KC picks an "Elway caliber QB" does he have to have a big giant set of teeth and a pigeon foot? I sure hope not. :)

TRR
12-28-2007, 08:13 PM
I'm not a huge Matt Ryan fan. If Jake Long is gone, and Ryan falls, then I wouldn't be upset about drafting him. However, I'm not sure KC fans can handle watching Ryan get knocked to crap behind this O Line. If KC is to draft Ryan, they better spend every dime on the O Line through FA to give him a chance.

ChiefsLV
12-28-2007, 08:16 PM
I'm convinced some of you can't comprehend.

It's not a ****ing knock when the guy has had both knees replaced, and has been hurt in 2 of the 5 games he's played in in the NFL.

If you can't stay on the field, I don't care if you're Joe Montana, you can't be relied on.

Why is this concept so hard for people to understand?


The guy is a first-year starter and yes he has had two fluke injuries in five games. Huard has been hurt this year too. I guess I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since our offensive line ****ing blows goats this year. The put downs are not necessary to make your point.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 08:19 PM
The guy is a first-year starter and yes he has had two fluke injuries in five games. Huard has been hurt this year too. I guess I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since our offensive line ****ing blows goats this year. The put downs are not necessary to make your point.

It's not a fluke injury when it happens to a guy all the time....

That still doesn't address his blown ACL's and torn up shoulder, the guy just gets hurt all the time, he's unreliable.

TRR
12-28-2007, 08:23 PM
It's not a fluke injury when it happens to a guy all the time....

That still doesn't address his blown ACL's and torn up shoulder, the guy just gets hurt all the time, he's unreliable.

It is way too early for someone to label Croyle injury prone. He's been dinged up a bit, but they haven't been serious injuries. And as far as the knee injuries go....It's in the past. It's not like QB's haven't come back from ACL injuries before. Croyle needs more than 5 or 6 games to be labeled anything IMO.

ChiefaRoo
12-28-2007, 08:23 PM
It's not a fluke injury when it happens to a guy all the time....

That still doesn't address his blown ACL's and torn up shoulder, the guy just gets hurt all the time, he's unreliable.

True, he's got to stay on the field.

ChiefsLV
12-28-2007, 08:30 PM
It's not a fluke injury when it happens to a guy all the time....

That still doesn't address his blown ACL's and torn up shoulder, the guy just gets hurt all the time, he's unreliable.


Yeah too early to label him unreliable and QB is a position that can recover reasonably well from torn ACL's. Brees tore up his shoulder a couple seasons ago also. I'd like to see how Croyle fares with better pass blocking and a consistent running game. It's way more likely that we'll get to see if Croyle is the real deal than it is that Herm will take a QB with the top pick.

Mecca
12-28-2007, 08:32 PM
Well it'll be fun trying to develop a guy who misses 5-7 games every year.

the Talking Can
12-28-2007, 08:36 PM
we get it


please let april get here

eazyb81
12-28-2007, 08:39 PM
He's got a mediocre arm that looks even worse when compared to Woodson and Ryan.

Are you drunk? Brohm has a great arm, but Ryan and Woodson also have nice arms.

The only downside to Brohm is his durability. If you feel his injuries were freak incidents, then he's a franchise caliber QB. If you feel his injuries show that he is fragile, then you probably aren't comfortable with taking him to replace our current fragile QB.

eazyb81
12-28-2007, 08:42 PM
It is way too early for someone to label Croyle injury prone. He's been dinged up a bit, but they haven't been serious injuries. And as far as the knee injuries go....It's in the past. It's not like QB's haven't come back from ACL injuries before. Croyle needs more than 5 or 6 games to be labeled anything IMO.

No it's not, he's been hurt his entire playing career. He was hurt all the time at Bama and has shown that he can't stay on the field in the NFL.

HolmeZz
12-28-2007, 08:44 PM
"He smells sack, he gets sack."
- Chris Spielman

Reaper16
12-29-2007, 12:15 AM
I hadn't watched Ryan in action until tonight. That dude can make some good throws. He impressed me a lot more than I figured he would.

Chiefnj2
12-29-2007, 10:31 AM
Did anybody happen to focus on Cherilus tonight? I sort of forgot to while concentrating on Ryan.

He's not 1st round quality.

Pablo
12-29-2007, 10:51 AM
He's not 1st round quality.Yeah, he might go early 2nd at best. I dunno, I suppose I'd still take him early 2nd. The few times I did watch him, I was far less impressed than I was with Clady. I haven't had a chance to watch Baker in person yet, and Long is pretty dominant.

Frosty
12-29-2007, 11:08 AM
The Terps will also feature one of college football’s better 1-2 senior punches at RB in Lance Ball (#44, 5-9, 225) and Keon Lattimore (#21, 5-10, 225)

Oops. 19 yards rushing for the entire game, including 9 yards on an end around by a WR. ROFL

shaneo69
12-29-2007, 11:15 AM
I hadn't watched Ryan in action until tonight. That dude can make some good throws. He impressed me a lot more than I figured he would.

Under 50% completion percentage, a terrible pick, and two fumbles? Color me unimpressed.

Mecca
12-29-2007, 11:27 AM
Under 50% completion percentage, a terrible pick, and two fumbles? Color me unimpressed.

Probably should have watched it, instead of just looking at the stats. You have to understand what he plays with and what he was doing...

The Bad Guy
12-29-2007, 11:27 AM
The guy is a first-year starter and yes he has had two fluke injuries in five games. Huard has been hurt this year too. I guess I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since our offensive line ****ing blows goats this year. The put downs are not necessary to make your point.

The ****ing injuries weren't because of the offensive line.

Were his injuries in college flukes too?

I think they are necessary when you are obviously grasping at whatever you could to attempt to prove that Brodie isn't injury prone.

Mecca
12-29-2007, 11:29 AM
The ****ing injuries weren't because of the offensive line.

Were his injuries in college flukes too?

I think they are necessary when you are obviously grasping at whatever you could to attempt to prove that Brodie isn't injury prone.

The way some people act you'd think Brodie Croyle was Peyton Manning coming out of college.

ChiefsLV
12-29-2007, 11:51 AM
The ****ing injuries weren't because of the offensive line.

Were his injuries in college flukes too?

I think they are necessary when you are obviously grasping at whatever you could to attempt to prove that Brodie isn't injury prone.


I'm just saying I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because the injuries, especially the last one where he hurts his hand going after a defender, were fluke. You're the one trying to prove that he's injury prone.

Mecca
12-29-2007, 11:53 AM
You don't have to prove he's injury prone, HE IS INJURY PRONE. There is no proving to it.

ChiefsLV
12-29-2007, 11:58 AM
The way some people act you'd think Brodie Croyle was Peyton Manning coming out of college.

Look man, I don't think anyone here is totally sold on Brodie. The fact of the matter is this team has a shitload of holes. That's something everyone can agree on. Most of us here are willing to give Brodie an actual season to see if he can develop into something rather than gamble with our first round pick on a position that historically doesn't pan out. Especially with this year's crop of QB's, it just makes sense to fill another hole with that pick. And if it doesn't work out, we get another high pick next year. Funny thing is, this is probably exactly how it will work out.

shaneo69
12-29-2007, 12:01 PM
Probably should have watched it, instead of just looking at the stats. You have to understand what he plays with and what he was doing...

I've seen enough of him this year to know he's not even worthy of a top-20 pick. But because he's a QB, he'll be the next Joey Harrington/Kyle Boller.

Mecca
12-29-2007, 12:02 PM
You know what you should do...

You should pull up the list of the QB's that have won or even made the Superbowl and look at how many of them were 1st round picks....

For a position that "historically busts" there's a reason when teams repeatedly draft them high...just go look at those numbers the percentage of QB's that make the bowl being first rounders is staggering.

Mecca
12-29-2007, 12:03 PM
I've seen enough of him this year to know he's not even worthy of a top-20 pick. But because he's a QB, he'll be the next Joey Harrington/Kyle Boller.

That's a rather ridiculous statement, I guess no QB is ever worth a high pick unless he's Peyton Manning in your world.

OnTheWarpath58
12-29-2007, 12:07 PM
I guess Marc Bulger, Tavaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, Steve McNair, Kyle Boller, Jake Delhomme, Matt Leinart, Donovan McNabb, Jeff Garcia, JP Losman and Matt Schaub are injury prone too.

They've all missed as much time or more than Croyle has this year.

That's a third of the league's QB's, just off the top of my head.

Injury history in college is irrelevant. Football is a physical game. The defense is trying to kill the QB. QB's with bad OL's are going to get hurt. His history doesn't make him more likely to get injured. There are guys that never miss a down in college that suffer serious injuries in the NFL. It happens.

There's a reason that guys like Manning, Favre and Brady don't get injured often, if ever. They get hit half the times a normal QB does. They've all been sacked less than 21 times a game.

I think the Chiefs had given up 21 sacks by Week 5.

Would everyone be whining about Croyle missing 1 game is he didn't have the ACL problems at Bama?

I don't remember Leinart or Bulger having an "injury history" in college, yet they've both missed a lot more time than Croyle has this year.

I guess they're made of glass, too.

**** it.

Every player that ever had in injury in college and has had one in the NFL is made of glass.

Pussies. All of them. Get them out of the league.

Mecca
12-29-2007, 12:10 PM
McNair is and McNabb has become injury prone...Garcia is too...

A guy like Leinart going back to college has been injured 1 time in 6 years. Campbell has had 1 injury, these guys don't remotely compare to Croyle. Croyle has been injured what 5 or 6 times in 6 years?

You can't rule out college that goes into what makes someone injury prone. If a guy gets hurt once no, or has one injury plagued season, no. If you continually get hurt season in and season out, you are injury prone.

Pablo
12-29-2007, 12:11 PM
Ryan is definately a 1st round QB in any draft. Had he been drafted out of the 2005 or 2006 class, I truly believe he'd be taken behind Russell, Quinn, Young, Leinart, and Cutler.

Is he the best QB prospect to come out of the last 5 years, or even the last 2 or 3, no.

But he's going to be the best QB to come out of the draft for the next couple of seasons. He's really a solid pro-prospect, and if the Chiefs were so inclined to take a QB high in the draft, this would be the year to do it.

Todd Boeckman looks to be the best pro-prospect going into next season if that tells you anything. Now I'm not knocking Boeckman, he's been a very solid QB for OSU this season, but he's far less talented or polished than Ryan is.

Mecca
12-29-2007, 12:13 PM
It's nice to wanna believe in Brodie Croyle but to say "oh college doesn't count!" when the college game isn't as fast or as brutal as the NFL game and he couldn't even last there is pretty funny.

Pablo
12-29-2007, 12:17 PM
I'm truly not a proponent of taking a QB in the first round, but if the organization feels so inclined, then Ryan is the guy to take.

I'd be much happier drafting an OT or DT. I'd take Sedrick Ellis, Dorsey, or Long(pending bowl performace and combine) over Ryan.

That being said, if he ignites some sort of spark under the Chiefs' collective asses, and we take him, I suppose I won't be too upset.

Cherilius and Baker may still be around in the early 2nd, I doubt Baker will, but it's a possibility.

OnTheWarpath58
12-29-2007, 12:18 PM
McNair is and McNabb has become injury prone...Garcia is too...

A guy like Leinart going back to college has been injured 1 time in 6 years. Campbell has had 1 injury, these guys don't remotely compare to Croyle. Croyle has been injured what 5 or 6 times in 6 years?

You can't rule out college that goes into what makes someone injury prone. If a guy gets hurt once no, or has one injury plagued season, no. If you continually get hurt season in and season out, you are injury prone.

So, using Leinart as an example....

If he were to miss significant time in the next 2-3 seasons, he'd be labeled as injury prone.

College would have had nothing to do with it.

Brett Favre had an injury history in college and had 30 inches of his intestines removed. We all know where the story goes from there.....

Bottom line is, it doesn't matter if they were injured in college or not. Missing time in the NFL is missing time. Period.

Mecca
12-29-2007, 12:23 PM
Brett Favre has never once missed an NFL start however....Croyle already has...

When you say benefit of the doubt, to me guys like Leinart get it because this is the first time he's ever gotten injured. When Croyle gets hurt you just expect it because he always does.

Every single Brodie Croyle scouting report said he needed to gain weight and show he was durable because at this point his injury history is a major concern. That he'd most likely be a backup if he couldn't fix those things...

So far he is the same size and is showing he isn't durable.

You give the benefit of the doubt to guys who generally don't get injured, not the guys who get hurt all the time.

siberian khatru
12-29-2007, 12:30 PM
You know what you should do...

You should pull up the list of the QB's that have won or even made the Superbowl and look at how many of them were 1st round picks....

For a position that "historically busts" there's a reason when teams repeatedly draft them high...just go look at those numbers the percentage of QB's that make the bowl being first rounders is staggering.

Here's all the Super Bowl winning QBs:

Bart Starr 17th round
Joe Namath 1st round
Len Dawson 1st round (3rd team)
Unitas/Morrall (Unitas 9th round, 2nd team/Morrall 1st round, 6th team)
Roger Staubach 10th round
Bob Griese 1st round
Terry Bradshaw 1st round
Ken Stabler 2nd round
Jim Plunkett 1st round (3rd team)
Joe Montana 3rd round
Joe Theismann 4th round (sort of 2nd team -- Miami drafted him, he then played in Canada a few years)
Jim Harbaugh 1st round
Doug Williams 1st round (2nd team)
Phil Simms 1st round
Jeff Hostetler 3rd round
Mark Rypien 6th round
Troy Aikman 1st round
Steve Young 1st round (2nd team)
Brett Favre 2nd round (2nd team)
John Elway 1st round
Kurt Warner FA
Trent Dilfer 1st round (2nd team)
Tom Brady 6th round
Brad Johnson 9th round (3rd team)
Ben Roethlisberger 1st round
Peyton Manning 1st round


Looks like 15 of the 27 were 1st round picks.

Mecca
12-29-2007, 12:31 PM
If you do it for the losing teams, the number gets even more staggering.

Pablo
12-29-2007, 12:31 PM
Looks like 15 of the 27 were 1st round picks.

What about the losing QB's?

If you have the time and energy, I'm just curious.

shaneo69
12-29-2007, 12:33 PM
That's a rather ridiculous statement, I guess no QB is ever worth a high pick unless he's Peyton Manning in your world.

Go back to 1990 for Super Bowl winning QB's. Unless they were 1st overall picks, they usually haven't been 1st rounders.

1990 - Hostetler - 3rd round
1991 - Rypien - 6th round
1992, 1993 - Aikman - 1st overall
1994 - Steve Young - 1st pick overall from USFL supp draft
1995 - Aikman - 1st overall
1996 - Favre - 2nd round
1997, 1998 - Elway - 1st overall
1999 - Warner - undrafted
2000 - Dilfer - 1st round
2001 - Brady - 6th round
2002 - Brad Johnson - 9th round
2003, 2004 - Brady - 6th round
2005 - Roethlisberger - 1st round
2006 - Manning - 1st overall

Dilfer was a bust. No way he was worth a 1st rounder. So in the last 17 years, you either draft your Super Bowl QB first overall, or get him later.

Except for Roethlisberger. If you think Matt Ryan is as good as Roethlisberger, take him. But I don't see it.

Mecca
12-29-2007, 12:35 PM
The Packers in theory used a 1st rounder on Favre because that was what they traded for him which at the time was the same as using one on a QB.

DaneMcCloud
12-29-2007, 12:40 PM
Most of us here are willing to give Brodie an actual season to see if he can develop into something rather than gamble with our first round pick on a position that historically doesn't pan out.

This is a ridiculous statement. 15 first round QB's have won 23 Super Bowls:

Ben Rothlisberger
Bob Greise
Doug Williams
Earl Morrall
Jim McMahon
Jim Plunkett
Joe Namath
John Elway
Lenny Dawson
Peyton Manning
Phil Simms
Steve Young
Terry Bradshaw
Trent Dilfer
Troy Aikman

Two third round QB's have won 5 Super Bowls:

Joe Montana
Jeff Hostetler

Considering the odds, the Chiefs are far more likely to win a Super Bowl with a first round QB than a third round draft choice.

Croyle was a third round draft choice for one reason: Injury prone. He's continuing that trend in the NFL.

ChiefsLV
12-29-2007, 12:53 PM
This is a ridiculous statement. 15 first round QB's have won 23 Super Bowls:

...

Ok, now look at all of the first round QB's in those drafts that were out of the league within five seasons. Without looking, I would guess that less than 50% actually have worked out. Doesn't look like such a ridiculous statement when you look at the whole picture.

My argument wasn't that first round QB's don't ever amount to anything. My argument was that the majority of them don't work out.

Mecca
12-29-2007, 12:55 PM
Really if you do that for other rounds the numbers increase even more......for the 1 Tom Brady that worked out from the 2nd day there are a 100 guys that didn't.

DaneMcCloud
12-29-2007, 01:21 PM
Go back to 1990 for Super Bowl winning QB's. Unless they were 1st overall picks, they usually haven't been 1st rounders.

1990 - Hostetler - 3rd round
1991 - Rypien - 6th round
1992, 1993 - Aikman - 1st overall
1994 - Steve Young - 1st pick overall from USFL supp draft
1995 - Aikman - 1st overall
1996 - Favre - 2nd round
1997, 1998 - Elway - 1st overall
1999 - Warner - undrafted
2000 - Dilfer - 1st round
2001 - Brady - 6th round
2002 - Brad Johnson - 9th round
2003, 2004 - Brady - 6th round
2005 - Roethlisberger - 1st round
2006 - Manning - 1st overall



Then look at the losing QB's since 1990:

1991 - Jim Kelly (1st round - HOF)
1992 - Jim Kelly (1st round - HOF)
1993 - Jim Kelly (1st round - HOF)
1994 - Jim Kelly (1st round - HOF)
1995 - Stan Humphries (6th round - traded to SD)
1996 - Neil O'Donnell (3rd round)
1997 - Drew Bledsoe (1st overall)
1998 - Brett Favre (2nd round - traded for a 1st)
1999 - Chris Chandler (3rd round)
2000 - Steve McNair (1st round)
2001 - Kerry Collings (1st round)
2002 - Kurt Warner (undrafted)
2003 - Rich Gannon (9th round)
2004 - Jake Delhomme (undrafted)
2005 - Donovan McNabb (1st round)
2006 - Matt Hasellbeck (traded for a 1st round)
2007 - Rex Grossman (1st round)

So again, it looks like the best bet is to have a first round QB, just to get to the Super Bowl.

DaneMcCloud
12-29-2007, 01:23 PM
Ok, now look at all of the first round QB's in those drafts that were out of the league within five seasons. Without looking, I would guess that less than 50% actually have worked out. Doesn't look like such a ridiculous statement when you look at the whole picture.

My argument wasn't that first round QB's don't ever amount to anything. My argument was that the majority of them don't work out.

Nice conjecture. I backed my stance with facts, you're speculating.

Steamboat Springs
12-29-2007, 01:30 PM
You numbskulls are all pathetic at draft scouting. The only person in this thread that knows what he is talking about is Mecca and of course me.

Pablo
12-29-2007, 01:35 PM
You numbskulls are all pathetic at draft scouting. The only person in this thread that knows what he is talking about is Mecca and of course me.You're right. You're an effing genius. Silva is da best ever!!!!

Let's use our first-rounder on a slow, small DB. Score!

ChiefsLV
12-29-2007, 03:39 PM
Nice conjecture. I backed my stance with facts, you're speculating.


It's generally accepted that first round QB's are a crapshoot. I needn't waste my time providing a list of the boom and bust first round QB's. For every Roethlisberger, there are two Tim Couch's. Go look at draft history if you need proof.