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Taco John
12-28-2007, 11:40 PM
FOX is excluding Ron Paul

December 28, 2007 10:39 pm EST

ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – According to the New Hampshire State Republican Party and an Associated Press report, Republican presidential candidate and Texas Congressman Ron Paul will be excluded from an upcoming forum of Republican candidates to be broadcast by Fox News on January 6, 2008.

“Given Ron Paul’s support in New Hampshire and his recent historic fundraising success, it is outrageous that Dr. Paul would be excluded,” said Ron Paul 2008 campaign chairman Kent Snyder. “Dr. Paul has consistently polled higher in New Hampshire than some of the other candidates who have been invited.”

Snyder continued, “Paul supporters should know that we are continuing to make inquiries with Fox News as to why they have apparently excluded Dr. Paul from this event.”

banyon
12-29-2007, 09:01 AM
Good for FOX. It's time to clear out these lower tier candidates and get more exchanges from people who actually have a chance to win.

wazu
12-29-2007, 09:18 AM
Are they inviting Fred Thompson?

recxjake
12-29-2007, 09:21 AM
I don't like that. Paul is doing well in NH. The only ones that should be excluded should be Duncan Hunter and Alan Keyes

HolmeZz
12-29-2007, 09:45 AM
That's racist.

patteeu
12-29-2007, 09:54 AM
I don't like that. Paul is doing well in NH. The only ones that should be excluded should be Duncan Hunter and Alan Keyes

If doing well in NH is the criteria, Rudy might end up watching it on TV at Ron Paul's house.

recxjake
12-29-2007, 10:04 AM
If doing well in NH is the criteria, Rudy might end up watching it on TV at Ron Paul's house.


Rudy is in 3rd in NH

HolmeZz
12-29-2007, 10:18 AM
Rudy is in 3rd in NH

And like 6th in Iowa.

patteeu
12-29-2007, 10:21 AM
Rudy is in 3rd in NH

There are only 2 people doing well in NH.

RedDread
12-29-2007, 10:24 AM
Unless they are only taking the top 3 candidates (Romney, Guiliani, Huckabee) this is uncalled for

Pitt Gorilla
12-29-2007, 10:34 AM
Good for FOX. It's time to clear out these lower tier candidates and get more exchanges from people who actually have a chance to win.Is Paul really a "lower tier" candidate? How are you defining "lower tier?"

patteeu
12-29-2007, 10:38 AM
Unless they are only taking the top 3 candidates (Romney, Guiliani, Huckabee) this is uncalled for

McCain and Romney are the 2 contenders in NH.

I suppose you could throw Giuliani and Huckabee into the "top tier" based on their polling strength elsewhere. Thompson and Paul have yet to demonstrate the kind of viability that the other 4 have shown. And Keyes and Hunter show no signs of relevance at all.

banyon
12-29-2007, 10:39 AM
Is Paul really a "lower tier" candidate? How are you defining "lower tier?"


I'm not serious. I was just mostly trying to stir up Taco. :Poke:

Taco John
12-29-2007, 11:14 AM
I bet we beat McCain in New Hampshire. This exclusion is BS.

jAZ
12-29-2007, 11:16 AM
Are they inviting Fred Thompson?
Yes... that's the reason it's BS.

BTW, this is old news. At least 2 days old. I ran out of time and forgot but I was going to start this thread a few days ago.

BucEyedPea
12-29-2007, 11:43 AM
Is Paul really a "lower tier" candidate? How are you defining "lower tier?"
"lower tier" to banyon = someone he doesn't like

banyon
12-29-2007, 11:46 AM
Ooh, good one. :rolleyes:

patteeu
12-29-2007, 11:48 AM
Yes... that's the reason it's BS.

I tend to agree. Other than superior name recognition, Fred Thompson doesn't have much more going on to justify his presence at the debate than Ron Paul.

Chocolate Hog
12-29-2007, 12:24 PM
20 Million raised in a Qtr, Probably going to finish in the top 3 in Iowa, and showing well in New Hampshire. How do you stop the momentum? Don't allow Paul in the debate! It's pretty bad when the media has to decide the presidental nomination. Shows ya where this country is going

Cochise
12-29-2007, 01:10 PM
I don't see any problem with excluding minor candidates to give voters more time to see those who are actually viable. But it seems if they were going to do so, they maybe should have excluded Thomspon too.

Cochise
12-29-2007, 01:12 PM
Probably going to finish in the top 3 in Iowa

Right... and if getting drubbed by 20 or 30 points counted as a victory, the Chiefs could have been a smashing success this year.

patteeu
12-29-2007, 01:23 PM
Probably going to finish in the top 3 in Iowa

According to Bob Novak (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4487036#post4487036), a "private corporate interest commissioned a phone bank survey of 15,000 Iowans who say they will attend Republican presidential caucuses" which produced the following results:

Romney 30%
Huckabee 26%
McCain 12%
Giuliani 9%
Paul 1%
Thompson 1%

Pitt Gorilla
12-29-2007, 01:47 PM
According to Bob Novak (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4487036#post4487036), a "private corporate interest commissioned a phone bank survey of 15,000 Iowans who say they will attend Republican presidential caucuses" which produced the following results:

Romney 30%
Huckabee 26%
McCain 12%
Giuliani 9%
Paul 1%
Thompson 1%That could be correct, but I just don't see Romney winning Iowa. I heard anyone who can stand the guy. Huck and McCain seem to have the best support, followed by Paul. I certainly don't contend that my sample is in any way representative of the entire population, but is interesting that Romney seems to elicit the most negative reactions.

Otter
12-29-2007, 02:30 PM
Ron Paul is the only candidate I'm backing and I'll admit you would have to be a fool to not realize that he may not make it through the primaries.

My only say in the matter is that given the straw polls there is a chance he may come out of nowhere.

I'm rooting for him. If he doesn't win, I'm ready for it, I'm a Chiefs Fan, I'm used to it.

Bad analogy, I know.

:D

We are all but pawns when it comes to the political steamroller.

Chocolate Hog
12-29-2007, 02:55 PM
According to Bob Novak (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4487036#post4487036), a "private corporate interest commissioned a phone bank survey of 15,000 Iowans who say they will attend Republican presidential caucuses" which produced the following results:

Romney 30%
Huckabee 26%
McCain 12%
Giuliani 9%
Paul 1%
Thompson 1%

lol Paul @ 1%? RIGHT


http://www.redstate.com/blogs/jack_ryan/2007/dec/22/cbs_news_ron_paul_tied_for_third_in_iowa

CBS predicts he'd finish third as did Zogby. 15,000 People donated money to him from Iowa my guess is a majority of those people will show up to cacaus for him.


Back to the original point though how can Faux exclude him? Even Michael Steele labeled him as a legit candidate. If raising 20 million, placing top 3 in Iowa, predicted to do well in New Hampshire isn't good enough I don't know what is.

jAZ
12-29-2007, 03:06 PM
Fox News doen't have an agenda.

Silock
12-29-2007, 04:06 PM
**** Fox News. They're making me REALLY angry.

Taco John
12-29-2007, 04:09 PM
Of course, Ron Paul's non-existant grass roots is taking this sitting down...

heh.

Taco John
12-29-2007, 04:22 PM
Paul: Fox News is 'scared of me'
Email|Link By James Pindell December 29, 2007 01:40 PM
PLAISTOW, N.H. -- Ron Paul said the decision to exclude him from a debate on Fox News Sunday the weekend before the New Hampshire Primary is proof that the network "is scared" of him.

"They are scared of me and don't want my message to get out, but it will," Paul said in an interview at a diner here. "They are propagandists for this war and I challenge them on the notion that they are conservative."

Paul's staff said they are beginning to plan a rally that will take place at the same time the 90-minute debate will air on television. It will be taped at Saint Anselm College in Goffstown.

"They will not win this skirmish," he promised.

The Fox debate occurs less than 24 hours after two back to back Republican and Democratic debates on the same campus sponsored by ABC News, WMUR-TV and the social networking website Facebook.

Paul, the Republican Texas Congressman, was wrapping up his final day of campaigning in New Hampshire until the Iowa Caucuses on Thursday.

He spent much of the day campaigning at diners in Manchester and Plaistow and downtown walks in Derry and Exeter.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/politics/primarysource/2007/12/paul_fox_news_i.html

HonestChieffan
12-29-2007, 04:44 PM
Its fine. When Art Bell does his show with candidates who have been to the Mother Ship, Ron Paul will have the whole show

BucEyedPea
12-29-2007, 07:36 PM
Paul: Fox News is 'scared of me'
"They are propagandists for this war and I challenge them on the notion that
Wow! Is this ever true! I read Rove is afraid Paul might win. wish I could be in NH.
BTW Taco, ( don't wanna make a whole thread on this) but I read today that Schneider of CNN, who does the elections and polling, is a member of AEI. Eeeh Gaads! Whooa! No wonder he was playing up the Bhutto thing and making security seem paramount even though it happened over there.

Back to my beer and the game! Hiccup!

Silock
12-29-2007, 07:46 PM
I know it won't do any good, but I fired off an e-mail to Faux News about how ridiculous this is.

Taco John
12-29-2007, 08:14 PM
Don't worry about it... We've got boots on the ground...

Check this out:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pwJKGfAWQUo&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pwJKGfAWQUo&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

recxjake
12-29-2007, 08:22 PM
[QUOTE=billay]

15,000 People donated money to him from Iowa.[QUOTE]

Link?

Taco John
12-30-2007, 12:17 AM
Ron Paul's Constitutional
He says it's time to get back to our founding document


By Ethan Wilensky-Lanford
Monitor staff

December 30. 2007 12:10AM

Ron Paul won the support of about half of the undecided voters gathered in a Manchester house yesterday, when he spoke about how he could save hundreds of millions of dollars by scaling back America's overseas empire. But many left with concerns that Paul lacked the leadership ability necessary to work with Congress.

The Republican congressman from Texas opened by saying that he had a "very high respect for the Constitution" that is absent in a federal government with too much power.

"For instance, today we have the federal government running our educational system," Paul said. "The federal government runs our medical system. The federal government runs the welfare state. The federal government has unconstitutionally taken over total control, creating money out of thin air. The monetary system has been undermined, and we also have a foreign policy never designed by the Constitution, or by the founders. The founders advised against exactly what we are doing today."

But Christina McKinley of Nashua was skeptical.

"How could anybody vote for somebody who could not describe one buck-stops-here leadership step?" she said. Earlier, she had asked Paul what experiences had taught him to lead.

Paul answered by saying that he had a consistent record in Congress that would inspire trust.

"I can't list 25 bills that I passed, because I compromised and I sold out," he said.

Paul also said that his plan to restore the Constitution, and immediately pull out of Iraq would be acceptable to Democrats, as well as Republicans.

"To me this is the compromise of all compromises," Paul said. "We are going to turn off all of this corporate welfare, all this foreign welfare, all this militarism, save money, and go to a liberal democrat and say look, we're not going to cut education, or medical benefits, we're going to work our way out of this, before we lose everything."

But at the end of the event, McKinley said that she was more likely to vote for Mitt Romney, even though she had agreed with Paul's platform.

"I don't care how many wonderful ideas you have," she said. "If he had demonstrable leadership experience, the door would have been kept open for me."

Paul highlighted the weakening dollar and inflated home prices in recent years as the result of mismanagement of the economy. He said that the Federal Reserve has discouraged savings by setting the interest rate far too low. Bush had endangered America's standing in the world by printing more money rather than reducing the federal deficit, he said.

"Most great nations were defeated internally through the destruction of their own money," he said, providing the decline of the Soviet Union as an example. "We're kidding ourselves if we think our system is viable forever."

He strongly rejected Bush's justification for the so-called War on Terror.

"Some people argue 'Well, we've got to fight them over there, or we're going to fight them here.' I don't believe that for a minute," Paul said. "They come here because we occupy their territory. They do exactly what we would do if a country like China was here doing it to us."

He said that the billions of dollars America gave to Pakistani President Pervez Musharaff in recent years has incited radicals toward violence, and that Benazir Bhutto may have been killed because she was also seen as beholden to America.

"We'd just be better off if we let the Pakistanis decide what kind of government they have, good or bad," he said.

Several audience members raised concerns that Paul sounded like an isolationist. Ken Murray asked Paul how involved America should be in the world, and was satisfied with his answer.

"He proposed open relations with all countries," Murray said. "I wanted to hear that, so we weren't walled off."

But Murray was among those who remained undecided. Both Paul and Romney acted and looked presidential, he said. After Paul's hour-long discussion, Murray would say only that he was "more inclined" to lean toward Paul. Sean Doherty, of Bedford, decided yesterday that he would support Paul over John McCain. He said that he had reservations, though, because he did not expect the Republican establishment to back Paul if he rose in the polls.

"I don't think they'd support him," he said. "I think they would depth-charge him."

Across the room, Jim Sheehan seemed to symbolize Murray's concern. Sheehan said that Paul was correct that we were headed for a financial collapse, but that he did not offer practical solutions.

"I believe in his ideas. I just think that they are not viable," he said. "We have gone down the path too far to change, unless we have a total economic collapse. Then bring in Ron Paul."

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071230/NEWS01/712300369

Cochise
12-30-2007, 12:24 AM
Its fine. When Art Bell does his show with candidates who have been to the Mother Ship, Ron Paul will have the whole show

I think you meant Kucinich?

Taco John
12-30-2007, 12:26 AM
I think you meant Kucinich?



Yeah, I was wondering how closely he/she followed this stuff if he/she was mistaking Paul for Kucinich.

Chocolate Hog
12-30-2007, 12:48 AM
[QUOTE=billay]

15,000 People donated money to him from Iowa.[QUOTE]

Link?


http://ronpaulgraphs.com/IA_pc_donors.html

Gotta do some math. I'll try finding the article as well

Otter
12-30-2007, 02:38 AM
Don't worry about it... We've got boots on the ground...

Check this out:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pwJKGfAWQUo&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pwJKGfAWQUo&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

I watched that too and it's why I love the man. Too bad he doesn't have an indirect PC answer followed up with a wink and a smile so he can get the votes needed to run the country.

wazu
12-30-2007, 07:16 AM
http://ronpaulgraphs.com/IA_pc_donors.html

Gotta do some math. I'll try finding the article as well

Pretty sure you are wrong on this. On that same site, there is a breakdown by state of donors. As of right now, Iowa shows 657 unique donors in Q4.

http://ronpaulgraphs.com/donors_state_count.html

recxjake
12-30-2007, 08:51 AM
Pretty sure you are wrong on this. On that same site, there is a breakdown by state of donors. As of right now, Iowa shows 657 unique donors in Q4.

http://ronpaulgraphs.com/donors_state_count.html

I hope you are right! If Paul had gotten 15,000 donations in Iowa, he would win! On the Repubublican side there is only 80-90,000 people that caucus.

wazu
12-30-2007, 09:02 AM
I hope you are right! If Paul had gotten 15,000 donations in Iowa, he would win! On the Repubublican side there is only 80-90,000 people that caucus.

Would a Ron Paul win in Iowa be any worse for Giuliani than Romney or Huckabee?

recxjake
12-30-2007, 12:18 PM
Would a Ron Paul win in Iowa be any worse for Giuliani than Romney or Huckabee?

Yes.

Chocolate Hog
12-30-2007, 12:31 PM
Pretty sure you are wrong on this. On that same site, there is a breakdown by state of donors. As of right now, Iowa shows 657 unique donors in Q4.

http://ronpaulgraphs.com/donors_state_count.html

Sorry it wasn't 15,000 it was near 2,000. I read it on the DailyPaul

recxjake
12-30-2007, 04:49 PM
Sorry it wasn't 15,000 it was near 2,000. I read it on the DailyPaul

ROFL

wazu
01-01-2008, 05:54 PM
It looks like Fox has left themselves an "out" if Paul does well in Iowa. Hopefully he does as well as I am hoping and Fox has no choice but to include him.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7656.html

Ron Paul pressures Fox News
By: Mike Allen
Jan 1, 2008 01:40 PM EST

Ron Paul’s campaign says he’s planning an alternative event at the same time as the Fox New Channel’s Republican forum in New Hampshire on Sunday if the network continues to hold back on an invitation, a campaign official tells Politico.

Already, blogs are alive with cries of “censorship” from Paul’s vocal and prolific followers.

Jesse Benton, Paul’s national press secretary, said he likely would hold a town hall with New Hampshire citizens — an event that would amount to counter-programming and would likely generate considerable publicity for the anti-war libertarian.

“We’re not going to sit around and cry about it,” Benton said.

“By all metrics, there is only a case for including Dr. Paul in the forum. We think it’s a little bit of a head-scratcher.”

Paul announced he raised $19.5 million in the last quarter of the year, and party sources say that is more than any other Republican campaign.

Fox News has not specified its exact criteria for the debate, but debate planners have long yearned to winnow the cast to permit more substantive and detailed conversation.

Fox has said it will make its final announcement about invitations after Thursday’s Iowa caucuses.

Benton said the campaign has placed about six calls to Marty Ryan, executive producer of political programming for Fox News Channel but said they have not been returned.

Ryan did not immediately return an e-mail seeking comment on New Year’s Day.

Paul will participate in an ABC debate in New Hampshire on Saturday night, Benton said.

BucEyedPea
01-01-2008, 07:49 PM
Fox News has not specified its exact criteria for the debate, but debate planners have long yearned to winnow the cast to permit more substantive and detailed conversation.
ROFL The rest of them all sound alike. They'll all just attack each other about is most conservative, when none of them really are....and how macho they all are to terri'sts. Hardly substantive.

Hydrae
01-01-2008, 07:54 PM
ROFL The rest of them all sound alike. They'll all just attack each other about is most conservative, when none of them really are....and how macho they all are to terri'sts. Hardly substantive.


And talk about being the next Reagan. I don't get that one, Reagan wasn't exactly loved when he was in office. The main thing I remember about Reagan in office (other than the Wall coming down) is candy, Alzhiemer rumors and sleeping in meetings. :shrug:

Taco John
01-01-2008, 11:41 PM
Should Ron Paul be allowed at Sunday's debate?

There seems to be a debate going on between Fox News and New Hampshire Republicans over precisely who will participate in this weekend's presidential debate.

Rumor has it that online fundraising sensation and Texas congressman Ron Paul and San Diego congressman Duncan Hunter will be excluded because their N.H. poll numbers are not in double digits, although Paul's fourth quarter fundraising numbers were way into double digits, nearing $20 million, according to his website. In the first 240 minutes of the new year, nearly $11,000 more came in.

Over the weekend a Fox News spokeswoman told Top of the Ticket that the New Hampshire Republican Party was making the choice of candidates to participate in the televised GOP presidential debate on Jan. 6 with Chris Wallace moderating. She even provided the chairman's e-mail: fergus@nhgop.org to confirm that. Alas, the chairman never responded to us.

Then, on Monday, that state party chair, Fergus Cullen, issued a statement saying that limiting candidates was not in the party's tradition, suggesting the media should not be in the ....

business of excluding serious candidates and talks were continuing with Fox.

So whose decision is it?

Understandably, neither side apparently wants to incur the online wrath of Paul's passionate parishioners, who scour the Internet around the clock and descend like locusts on any opportunity to praise Paul or right perceived wrongs on any website or blog they can find. If word got out that Fox/News Corp. chairman Rupert Murdoch's e-mail was rmurdoch@newscorp.com, his mailbox would be full in a flash.

Paul's supporters have set up a special protest website to marshal support, as well as urge his fervent followers as follows:

"We need to send a message to Fox's Rupert Murdoch & his fellow Neocon buddies that he is not Musharraf and the U.S. is not Pakistan, yet! Fox News cannot just stifle public opinion, debate and impact a primary election by excluding Ron Paul just because they don't like his message of freedom and liberty. Cover them up with e-mails and they will just say it was a mistake or miscommunication. Be respectful as all of the e-mail addresses below are just employees trying to keep their jobs with the world's largest media monopoly."

The mainstream media -- or msm -- are a particular target of Paul's vociferous followers, an eclectic mix of libertarians and disaffected Republicans, Democrats and, until now, non-voters. Outspoken to say the least, they disregard stories like this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one. They believe that major newspapers and broadcast networks have conspired to pay insufficient attention to Dr. Paul, a 72-year-old ob-gyn and 10-term House member, citing his low numbers in polls, which Paulites believe are self-fulfilling frauds designed to cause voters to invest their votes in more traditional candidates with a seemingly more realistic chance of winning.

Only when these followers, led by a mysterious amateur musician and fundraiser, began making their average $100 campaign donations by the thousands last fall, setting a new one-day online record in excess of $6 million and making Paul the only Republican candidate to increase his donations every quarter in 2007, did the media begin paying attention. But no amount of attention seems sufficient for Paulites, who complain when there is no coverage and then complain again about any coverage they do get. Watch the comments section below.

They gather in chatrooms and more than 1,200 meet-up groups across the country to paint signs, write letters, organize marches and protests, support each other and otherwise promote the Ron Paul Revolution, which they believe will arrive when primary voting starts.

Some 300 young Paul supporters have been in caucus-training camps in Iowa in recent days and are shooting for maybe a stunning third-place there ahead of more famous fellows like John McCain, Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson. And they hope to possibly do even better in New Hampshire where the state slogan "Live Free or Die" would seem to lend itself to their cause.

But first fights first. Iowa this Thursday. The Fox forum on Sunday. Then on to New Hampshire and beyond, carrying Dr. Paul's antiabortion, antiwar, strict constitutionalist banner.

--Andrew Malcolm

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/01/should-ron-paul.html

patteeu
01-02-2008, 06:52 AM
And talk about being the next Reagan. I don't get that one, Reagan wasn't exactly loved when he was in office. The main thing I remember about Reagan in office (other than the Wall coming down) is candy, Alzhiemer rumors and sleeping in meetings. :shrug:

You're confusing democrats with Republicans. Reagan was loved by Republicans while he was in office. He was ridiculed and attacked by democrats. The debate in question is among Republicans, not democrats.

I agree that the universal praise offered for Reagan at his funeral was somewhat puzzling, but praise coming from Republicans is not puzzling at all.

patteeu
01-02-2008, 06:58 AM
I'm a little torn on this subject. On the one hand, I've always thought that it would be better if significant minor candidates had access to the public through the official presidential debates so the voting public could be exposed to their less conventional viewpoints, but OTOH, I'd be entertained by seeing the Ron Paul supporters around here squeal about the "injustice".

Rumor has it that online fundraising sensation and Texas congressman Ron Paul and San Diego congressman Duncan Hunter will be excluded because their N.H. poll numbers are not in double digits, although Paul's fourth quarter fundraising numbers were way into double digits, nearing $20 million, according to his website. In the first 240 minutes of the new year, nearly $11,000 more came in.

Perhaps Ron Paul isn't using that pile of cash very effectively if he can't get his poll numbers up into double digits.