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View Full Version : No Way Croyle Should be Judged Behind this Swiss Cheese Line


Otter
12-30-2007, 02:40 PM
You keep bashing him, I'll keep backing him.

:shrug:

the Talking Can
12-30-2007, 02:44 PM
good luck

Pablo
12-30-2007, 02:47 PM
Don't try.

He's made two pass attempts this game, and had to scramble for his life once already in two series.

Some people made up their mind a long time ago about Croyle and you're not going to change it.

If drafting a QB is the answer, then some folks can't properly evaluate the problem.

kcfanintitanhell
12-30-2007, 02:49 PM
I thought the Chiefs had by far the worst offensive line I have seen in recent memory, until I started observing the Jets line-they would give our guys a serious run for their money.

MichaelH
12-30-2007, 02:49 PM
I've been saying it all year. Give Croyle an average line and he can do something. He has crap now.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 02:50 PM
No help from Gonzo there.

Playing behind this OL, in the rain, with his throwing hand wrapped.

Sounds like the perfect storm for the Croyle bashers.

Pablo
12-30-2007, 02:50 PM
I thought the Chiefs had by far the worst offensive line I have seen in recent memory, until I started observing the Jets line-they would give our guys a serious run for their money.We've still given up like 10 more sacks this season. So we win.

CupidStunt
12-30-2007, 02:52 PM
Uh ... yeah, you can. Dude has NO accuracy. Absolutely horrible touch on his passes. Couldn't hit the state of Texas if he was in a hot air balloon at 5000-feet.

QB is as much a need as LT, DT, CB, WR, etc., etc., etc.

Chiefspants
12-30-2007, 02:52 PM
Yeah, Croyle needs next season too, most likely we'll do awful next year as well. So we could draft a qb if croyle isn't the man.

Frankie
12-30-2007, 02:54 PM
You keep bashing him, I'll keep backing him.

:shrug:
I'm totally with you. Croyle is already being bashed in the other thread. :shake:

Otter
12-30-2007, 02:54 PM
I've been saying it all year. Give Croyle an average line and he can do something. He has crap now.

My thoughts exactly. Everyone keeps saying "let's find out about Croyle" before the season is over.

That's like trying to find out about the financial analysts who took over what was left of Enron Stock. They both inherited a freaking turd.

Pablo
12-30-2007, 02:55 PM
Yeah, Croyle needs next season too, most likely we'll do awful next year as well. So we could draft a qb if croyle isn't the man.Nope.

We could get Matt Ryan this year. He's the messiah. Once we draft a QB, our offensive line will block better, our running backs will become less injury prone, our WR's won't drop passes and our play-calling will improve ten-fold.

Don't get me wront, Matt Ryan is a good QB, but good lord, do you folks really think he should have to start his career behind a line like this?

Brock
12-30-2007, 03:02 PM
Said it before - I want to like Croyle, but when Huard can come in against the same team and look twice as good, there might be a problem.

Chiefspants
12-30-2007, 03:03 PM
It's how we never develop a QB, We always draft one when we have absolutely no one else on offense to go to.

doomy3
12-30-2007, 03:05 PM
Said it before - I want to like Croyle, but when Huard can come in against the same team and look twice as good, there might be a problem.


That's what my problem is too. I have been a huge Croyle backer, but Huard has absolutely looked better with the same players around him.

Pitt Gorilla
12-30-2007, 03:06 PM
It doesn't look like the "receivers" want to catch very badly either.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 03:11 PM
This line is a ****ing embarassment.

Pablo
12-30-2007, 03:13 PM
It's all Croyle's fault.

When he rolled out of the pocket and nailed Tony in the hands on the run, and he dropped it, that was because Brodie can't put touch on his passes.

And when the pocket collapsed and he threw the ball into the back of his linemen, that was because he has terrible pocket awareness. Tom Brady would have thrown a football from each hand with that kind of pressure for a touchdown.

mikey23545
12-30-2007, 03:15 PM
Everybody was always eager to judge Huard behind this line. Why does Croyle get an exemption?

Brock
12-30-2007, 03:16 PM
Everybody was always eager to judge Huard behind this line. Why does Croyle get an exemption?

QFT

cookster50
12-30-2007, 03:20 PM
The more I see him play, the crappier he looks.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 03:21 PM
Everybody was always eager to judge Huard behind this line. Why does Croyle get an exemption?

IIRC, it all started when Croyle was being unfairly judged behind a line full of 3rd stringers in the PS.

And honestly, if you don't see the difference between a 34 year old making the same mistakes as a 2nd year guy......

Otter
12-30-2007, 03:21 PM
Everybody was always eager to judge Huard behind this line. Why does Croyle get an exemption?

Because Huard has about 11 years experience dealing with NFL defenses and this is Croyle's first year with what, 9 starts?

eazyb81
12-30-2007, 03:21 PM
I don't think any of the Croyle "bashers" expected him to take us to the playoffs or make the Pro Bowl this year, but so far he hasn't shown anything that leads me to believe he is a future franchise QB.

If we take a QB in the 1st this year, I won't believe we will magically turn into a 10 win team, but I do think our future will be in better hands.

KC kid
12-30-2007, 03:24 PM
Croyle has shown no flashes. I want him to be the answer, but he has nothing

louie aguiar
12-30-2007, 03:27 PM
Huard looked all right behind that same line last week. Huard > Croyle.

Otter
12-30-2007, 03:28 PM
I don't think any of the Croyle "bashers" expected him to take us to the playoffs or make the Pro Bowl this year, but so far he hasn't shown anything that leads me to believe he is a future franchise QB.

If we take a QB in the 1st this year, I won't believe we will magically turn into a 10 win team, but I do think our future will be in better hands.

You or me have no idea what that guy can deliver. There are how many dropped passes and again, behind that horrible line. Just saying, give the guy a chance.

Watch a couple of his college games. He's scrappy. I'm not saying he's Joe Montana but he is a Jim Harbaugh type of guy. Scrappy and a leader by nature with intangibles that you can't teach.

He deserves a chance and this year isn't that chance.

Chiefspants
12-30-2007, 03:31 PM
Well, its obvious everyone was judging Huard because he's 34 and not going to be getting any better. Plus, He wasn't in because the chiefs were going to make the playoffs, far from it, he was just wasting space while Croyle was on the bench and getting no experience.

Frankie
12-30-2007, 03:32 PM
Said it before - I want to like Croyle, but when Huard can come in against the same team and look twice as good, there might be a problem.
Herm had Croyle handcuffed and on a short leash for some chickenshit reason. When Huard came in there was nothing to lose. There was no leash on Huard.

louie aguiar
12-30-2007, 03:33 PM
If we had Croyle in from day 1 we might be looking at the number one overall pick right now.

Frankie
12-30-2007, 03:37 PM
Everybody was always eager to judge Huard behind this line. Why does Croyle get an exemption?
We may have been too judgemental of Huard. But we had no idea at the time that the line is THIS BAD. We thought it was a combination of a semi bad line and a semi bad QB. This line has actually regressed. It has hit the bottom and has begun digging. As unfair as we may have been to Huard, wew know who and what he is. He is a good Backup. But not our future. We need to evaluate Croyle under better conditions.

cookster50
12-30-2007, 03:38 PM
If we had Croyle in from day 1 we might be looking at the number one overall pick right now.
Dang it Carl!

Otter
12-30-2007, 03:39 PM
If we had Croyle in from day 1 we might be looking at the number one overall pick right now.

Instead of building a foundation and forming around a QB trying to put a square peg in a round hole you and Carl can bring in Donovan McNabb and get embarrassed in the playoffs yet again.

But hey, you made the playoffs right.

Go look up some Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Joe Montana and so on and so forth in their first year.

I'm sure when you got in your profession you were a golden boy and everyone loved you. The rest of us are human.

Mecca
12-30-2007, 03:43 PM
That still doesn't address 1 thing about Brodie Croyle.....no amount of time played is gonna change the fact that he is an extremely injury prone guy.

louie aguiar
12-30-2007, 03:43 PM
Go look up Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown, Akili Smith and Tim Couch and on and on and on. They struggled from the outset too.

I never said anything about McNabb. We need to draft and develop a franchise QB if we're going to take the next step. I just don't think that's Croyle.

Otter
12-30-2007, 04:00 PM
Go look up Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown, Akili Smith and Tim Couch and on and on and on. They struggled from the outset too.

I never said anything about McNabb. We need to draft and develop a franchise QB if we're going to take the next step. I just don't think that's Croyle.

Wasn't trying to imply you said bring in McNabb, sorry about that. That would be the modus operandi for this team though.

PastorMikH
12-30-2007, 04:28 PM
From the way it sounds from the radio broadcast, Croyle doesn't have any protection, recievers that can catch, RBs that can run, coaches that can call plays, etc.

Put Manning and Brady into one QB and even he wouldn't stand a chance running our O.

PastorMikH
12-30-2007, 04:29 PM
That still doesn't address 1 thing about Brodie Croyle.....no amount of time played is gonna change the fact that he is an extremely injury prone guy.




This is my concern as well, but I have to admit behind this OL I think ANY QB will be injury prone.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-30-2007, 04:39 PM
I agree that we can't judge Croyle too much based on the crappy Oline. But we still need to bring in a vet and/or draft a QB that can come in and compete with him for the starting job.

And there's just something about Croyle. It's scary. I just have a feeling he's not the answer.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 04:45 PM
I agree that we can't judge Croyle too much based on the crappy Oline. But we still need to bring in a vet and/or draft a QB that can come in and compete with him for the starting job.

And there's just something about Croyle. It's scary. I just have a feeling he's not the answer.

If we bring in a vet, it won't be for competition.

Carl won't allow it. He'll be there to play, and we'll have a repeat of this year, a vet QB spending half of the season looking over his shoulder.

KCChiefsFan88
12-30-2007, 04:47 PM
Let's see...

After the Chiefs did everything in their power to HAND Croyle the starting job in the preseason... he was beyond pathetic and choked it away to Hutard.

Since the Chiefs went to Croyle as the starting QB in the middle of the season the team has not won a game and the offense has gone from horrible to historically horrible with him as the starter. This despite the fact that Croyle has faced the likes of Denver, Oakland, Detoilet and now the Jets during his brief time as a starter (not exactly great defenses or teams).

People want to blindly believe in Croyle even though he has shown ZERO and ZILCH in two years to suggest he is an NFL caliber QB.

Seriously what are you Croyle lovers basing your belief that he'll be a legit NFL-caliber QBOTF on? He was a mediocre, injury-prone QB in college and he has done nothing in the NFL in 2 years. What about him makes you think he'll be a solid starting QB for the Chiefs for the next 15 years?

CupidStunt
12-30-2007, 04:48 PM
That embarrassing play should pretty much cement the fact that THE KANSAS CITY CHIEFS ARE IN DESPERATE NEED OF A QUARTERBACK.

Micjones
12-30-2007, 04:49 PM
Everybody was always eager to judge Huard behind this line. Why does Croyle get an exemption?

Damon Huard laid this readymade excuse to rest last week.
He looks infinitely better than Croyle with the same players.

Croyle IS NOT the guy.

We still need an Offensive Line overhaul.
I'd take Matt Ryan in R1 and a guy like Jeff Otah in R2.

We can snag a couple of young FA linemen.
Wharton, Starks, Gross, Lilja, Scott, Kemoeatu, Snee...

King_Chief_Fan
12-30-2007, 04:49 PM
Huard had no trouble last week against Detroit after Croyle stunk it up for a quarter and a half. Huard and Croyle are not the answer. I don't know who is, but they are not.

KCChiefsFan88
12-30-2007, 04:50 PM
Oh and one more thing to add about Croyle... he hasn't shown a single shred of progress during his brief span as a starting QB.

Can anyone honestly say Croyle looks better today than he did during his first start 6 weeks ago or so?

And again he isn't facing the Patriots or the 1985 Bears defense today... this is a horrible Jets defense he's facing.

KCChiefsFan88
12-30-2007, 04:52 PM
Croyle IS NOT the guy.

We still need an Offensive Line overhaul.
I'd take Matt Ryan in R1 and a guy like Jeff Otah in R2.

We can snag a couple of young FA linemen.
Wharton, Starks, Gross, Lilja, Scott, Kemoeatu, Snee...

There are several good young offensive linemen available in free agency this year, not to mention the Chiefs will have a boatload of picks in the draft to address the offensive line.

Micjones
12-30-2007, 04:54 PM
Matt Ryan or Brian Brohm please and thank you.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-30-2007, 04:55 PM
If we bring in a vet, it won't be for competition.

Carl won't allow it. He'll be there to play, and we'll have a repeat of this year, a vet QB spending half of the season looking over his shoulder.

The Chiefs have to have one though. To protect the season and to not lose the players attention by keeping in a crappy Croyle and see their season fall apart.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 04:56 PM
The Chiefs have to have one though. To protect the season and to not lose the players attention by keeping in a crappy Croyle and see their season fall apart.

Carl? Is that you?

Chiefs Pantalones
12-30-2007, 04:59 PM
Carl? Is that you?

It's true though.

No team has ever went into a season without some insurance at the QB position because their current starter (Croyle) has not proven he can cut it yet.

Otter
12-30-2007, 05:00 PM
I agree that we can't judge Croyle too much based on the crappy Oline. But we still need to bring in a vet and/or draft a QB that can come in and compete with him for the starting job.

And there's just something about Croyle. It's scary. I just have a feeling he's not the answer.

That's called conditioning Cody. It's the same reason a 1000lb elephant that's been in captivity it's whole life no longer tries to break the chain on its ankle.

RINGLEADER
12-30-2007, 05:06 PM
Agree completely. Croyle has made no where near the number of mental mistakes that I thought he would make this year. His poor play is about 90% scrambling for his life and 10% his terrible judgment/play.

Look at Trent Green. The second Willie Roaf left his ability to sit in the pocket for three days and find open receivers evaporated and he became average. In Miami he was worse than that.

We need to draft/sign to stud OTs and give Brodie another year to work it out. Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, etc., etc...they all looked like crap their first year out. Build a team around this guy and let's see what he can do!

RINGLEADER
12-30-2007, 05:11 PM
Agree completely. Croyle has made no where near the number of mental mistakes that I thought he would make this year. His poor play is about 90% scrambling for his life and 10% his terrible judgment/play.

Look at Trent Green. The second Willie Roaf left his ability to sit in the pocket for three days and find open receivers evaporated and he became average. In Miami he was worse than that.

We need to draft/sign to stud OTs and give Brodie another year to work it out. Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, etc., etc...they all looked like crap their first year out. Build a team around this guy and let's see what he can do!

xbarretx
12-30-2007, 05:32 PM
Agree completely. Croyle has made no where near the number of mental mistakes that I thought he would make this year. His poor play is about 90% scrambling for his life and 10% his terrible judgment/play.

Look at Trent Green. The second Willie Roaf left his ability to sit in the pocket for three days and find open receivers evaporated and he became average. In Miami he was worse than that.

We need to draft/sign to stud OTs and give Brodie another year to work it out. Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, etc., etc...they all looked like crap their first year out. Build a team around this guy and let's see what he can do!

thank you!, Glad there are others who are reasonable. putting another QB behind no O-line will get the team no where...

suds79
12-30-2007, 06:05 PM
I'm fine with rebuilding this team (Jake Long) and then drafting a QB in the 1st next year when Brodie Croyle still stinks.

Count Zarth
12-30-2007, 06:06 PM
Croyle played pretty well in the second half, IMO.

the Talking Can
12-30-2007, 06:12 PM
193 yards, 1 TD, 0ints

throwing to Grigsby and Battle and Wilson and Webb

a 3rd string street FA RB, a joke of an OL that allowed a jailbreak on every play...

stays healthy, throws a TD in the face of a blitz, takes a beating and doesn't get injured...and no ints

you have to give him some credit, or you're just not being honest...

Mecca
12-30-2007, 06:16 PM
If Croyle starts a full year next year we're gonna be looking at 1-15 or 2-14.

Cochise
12-30-2007, 06:19 PM
193 yards, 1 TD, 0ints

throwing to Grigsby and Battle and Wilson and Webb

a 3rd string street FA RB, a joke of an OL that allowed a jailbreak on every play...

stays healthy, throws a TD in the face of a blitz, takes a beating and doesn't get injured...and no ints

you have to give him some credit, or you're just not being honest...

amen

blueballs
12-30-2007, 06:21 PM
I like giving Croyle a chance
but if you can't see why others question him
your blind

Scorp
12-30-2007, 06:22 PM
If Croyle starts a full year next year we're gonna be looking at 1-15 or 2-14.


Enough of this stupid shit, Croyle isn't our problem. Wake the f*ck up. :shake:

Mecca
12-30-2007, 06:23 PM
Alright...think as you will but the guy has 0 pocket presence, gets hurt constantly and is rail thin..

what's he have going for him? He has a strong arm?

Scorp
12-30-2007, 06:26 PM
He has a strong arm, he is young, he can roll out of the pocket and make things happen. Plus he is only going to get better. Come on, even the greats had shitty first years.

Cochise
12-30-2007, 06:27 PM
This sucks, I upgraded Firefox so CPIggy doesn't work, and I can't ignore mecca because it says he is a mod. :shake:

Mecca
12-30-2007, 06:29 PM
He has a strong arm, he is young, he can roll out of the pocket and make things happen. Plus he is only going to get better. Come on, even the greats had shitty first years.

That sounds like something you could say for every QB drafted in the last 25 years...if all you got is you are young and have a strong arm and you are decently mobile, Kyle Boller and JP Losman would be awesome.

Bwana
12-30-2007, 06:29 PM
Joe: Croyle is the Devil! Now enough of this talk. :)

scott free
12-30-2007, 06:32 PM
193 yards, 1 TD, 0ints

throwing to Grigsby and Battle and Wilson and Webb

a 3rd string street FA RB, a joke of an OL that allowed a jailbreak on every play...

stays healthy, throws a TD in the face of a blitz, takes a beating and doesn't get injured...and no ints

you have to give him some credit, or you're just not being honest...

What we NEED to do, is keep rotating young QB's through here every 6-8 games...while giving them Jack Squat to work with...THATS!!! the secret to developing young talent... :rolleyes: .

You need to stop making sense, it confuses our mentally impaired brethren.

Mecca
12-30-2007, 06:36 PM
Ok like I said my #1 issue with Croyle is his injury problems....if anyone can give me any reason to think he can play 16 games a season, I'd love to hear that.

Chief Faithful
12-30-2007, 06:36 PM
Game on the line, nothing going right, receivers dropping the ball, getting busted in the mouth all day long, then he settles down and engineers a late 4th Qtr drive. That is the kind of presence the team hopes to find in a QB. Plus, he never got impatient trying to make something happen as he had zero INTs in a tight game. I thought there were many positives from Croyle's performance today.

Surround him with some players then judge his performance.

the Talking Can
12-30-2007, 06:36 PM
Alright...think as you will but the guy has 0 pocket presence, gets hurt constantly and is rail thin..

what's he have going for him? He has a strong arm?

i'd recommend Kotex to stop the hyperbole...might help with the bleeding too...

scott free
12-30-2007, 06:36 PM
Alright...think as you will but the guy has 0 pocket presence, gets hurt constantly and is rail thin..

what's he have going for him? He has a strong arm?

For every valid point, you make 2 that are f#cking retarded.

You dont know NEARLY!!! as much as you would have everyone believe.

Mecca
12-30-2007, 06:38 PM
Lets also take into account this team we played today is as bad as we are....

chiefs1111
12-30-2007, 06:41 PM
Id like to see croyle have a little more time,but i dont know,everytime he gets hit im afraid hes not gonna get up. What does everyone think about woodson from Kentucky,does anyone here like him? I like Brohm, but he has also had some injuries.

Chief Faithful
12-30-2007, 06:41 PM
Lets also take into account this team we played today is as bad as we are....

ESPN called the Jets the best 3-12 team in the NFL. Doesn't that count for something?
:)

blueballs
12-30-2007, 06:42 PM
Mecca is a mod
someone has lost their ****ing mind

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 06:43 PM
Ok like I said my #1 issue with Croyle is his injury problems....if anyone can give me any reason to think he can play 16 games a season, I'd love to hear that.

He missed ONE game.

A game that if it mattered, he could have played. Herm has treated him with the softest of kid gloves.

Name all of the starting QB's that have played all 16 games this year.

Probably less than half of the league's starters

Mecca
12-30-2007, 06:44 PM
He couldn't make it through college seasons...but hey lets ignore that eh?

Frankie
12-31-2007, 10:27 AM
If Croyle starts a full year next year we're gonna be looking at 1-15 or 2-14.
Then I will join you to campaign for drafting the '09 cream of the crop QB. But this year, it makes no sense at all, without fixing the OL first.

Frankie
12-31-2007, 10:33 AM
Ok like I said my #1 issue with Croyle is his injury problems....if anyone can give me any reason to think he can play 16 games a season, I'd love to hear that.
Better yet. can you give me reason to think he can't, if we gave him a protective line? All we are saying is we don't know that, and we won't until the line is halfway decent. Then if he is still "fragile" we can go after some stud QB.

FAX
12-31-2007, 11:04 AM
Is Mr. Mecca really a mod?

FAX

Pushead2
12-31-2007, 11:06 AM
who knows.....

suds79
12-31-2007, 11:43 AM
Better yet. can you give me reason to think he can't, if we gave him a protective line? All we are saying is we don't know that, and we won't until the line is halfway decent. Then if he is still "fragile" we can go after some stud QB.

I can give you some reason to think he can't. He's missed time twice in not even a 1/2 season. Yes the O-line is poor. We all know that.

But if you're putting it all on the O-line or cannot at least acknowledge that the kid appears to still be injury prone, I think you're letting your fanhood effect your judgment.

All we can go on is the evidence. And it doesn't look good for Croyle.

kc1977
12-31-2007, 12:11 PM
No way Croyle Should be Judged Behind this Swiss Cheese Line
:shrug:

That's fine, as long as you give Herman Edwards the same slack. Edwards tenure in KC is tied to Croyle's. That will be Edwards legacy.

In my opinion, I don't think Brodie will ever make it as a starter in the NFL (he may start 2 or 3 more years for the Chiefs, but if so, in my opinion, we'll be in for 2 or 3 more years like this year), and for that reason, I think Herman and Brodie should be booted today.

But, as long as you think Brodie deserves more shots, so does Herman. Herman's success in KC will ultimately ride on Brodie's success.

Frankie
12-31-2007, 12:16 PM
That's fine, as long as you give Herman Edwards the same slack. Edwards tenure in KC is tied to Croyle's. That will be Edwards legacy.

In my opinion, I don't think Brodie will ever make it as a starter in the NFL (he may start 2 or 3 more years for the Chiefs, but if so, in my opinion, we'll be in for 2 or 3 more years like this year), and for that reason, I think Herman and Brodie should be booted today.

But, as long as you think Brodie deserves more shots, so does Herman. Herman's success in KC will ultimately ride on Brodie's success.
I have always said that Herm should be given next year as well. It's CP that needs to go YESTERDAY!

kc1977
12-31-2007, 12:45 PM
I have always said that Herm should be given next year as well. It's CP that needs to go YESTERDAY!

I can't disagree too much only that

1. A new GM should have a say on who his coach and starting QB is. I'm confident most new GMs would say that Herm is not the coach for this team and that Brodie is not the starter (I mean, come on, how many other teams would he be starting on and for that matter, how many backups on other teams would be more competent starting that Brodie Croyle?).

2. CPs final try is Herman. You almost have to let Herman's tenure play out before ultimately booting CP. If you boot CP, Herm should be gone, or at the very least, debated by the new regime as if they had no constraints (that is, if they don't think he is the guy, eating his contract is not an issue).

Frankie
12-31-2007, 01:38 PM
I can't disagree too much only that

1. A new GM should have a say on who his coach and starting QB is. I'm confident most new GMs would say that Herm is not the coach for this team and that Brodie is not the starter (I mean, come on, how many other teams would he be starting on and for that matter, how many backups on other teams would be more competent starting that Brodie Croyle?).

2. CPs final try is Herman. You almost have to let Herman's tenure play out before ultimately booting CP. If you boot CP, Herm should be gone, or at the very least, debated by the new regime as if they had no constraints (that is, if they don't think he is the guy, eating his contract is not an issue).
If CP is booted out or reassigned within the organization, someone from the Fo can move up for next year. All I want is CP's ego and lording over player decisions to be gone. Judging by the HBO thing, Herm wanted to rebuild and have Croyle start from the begining. But I remember CP wanting someone "we could win with right now," hence pulling rank and over-ruling Herm. We may still have been picking in top five, but at least we would have a clear evaluation of Brodie. The new GM, btw, could be swept out along with the coaches after next year, ala Miami, if things weren't looking promising.