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View Full Version : Brodie Croyle. . . What did he show today?


KC kid
12-30-2007, 08:08 PM
This game was so boring. I passed out. Up til when I fell asleep, Croyle was terrible. Did he do anything?

Hailchief
12-30-2007, 08:09 PM
Man you are a fan

blueballs
12-30-2007, 08:09 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=177669

Mr. Arrowhead
12-30-2007, 08:10 PM
I really dont think people can give up on croyle, we need to get a good O line before we make a final judgement on him.

KC kid
12-30-2007, 08:11 PM
Sorry, but the game was horrible football. I could not stay awake for that

Reerun_KC
12-30-2007, 08:11 PM
he showed that our coaching staff is retarded and no matter what, no QB will flourish under this crap!

jlscorpio
12-30-2007, 08:11 PM
Brief synopsis: Our O-line sucks. The END

DomerNKC
12-30-2007, 08:11 PM
i think he is destined to be a quality backup.

Pushead2
12-30-2007, 08:12 PM
He hasnt shown much, line or no line

Mr. Arrowhead
12-30-2007, 08:15 PM
Aikmen first season 0-11, enough said

DomerNKC
12-30-2007, 08:17 PM
Aikman had flashes of brilliance. He had his moments. I was all for brody starting game 1. I like brody. He will make somebody a good backup in this league.

Rain Man
12-30-2007, 08:21 PM
He showed that he can be consistent throughout an entire game.


On another topic, Tony G. had his worst game ever, I think. It seems like he dropped more passes today than in the previous seven or eight years combined.

BigMeatballDave
12-30-2007, 08:22 PM
He finished the game.

FAX
12-30-2007, 08:23 PM
What Brodie proved.

Brodie proved we have a gaggle of morons in charge of this organization. Brodie proved we had no running game today. Brodie proved our oline is a bunch of old ladies dressed up like football players. Brodie proved you can't throw it and catch it, too. Brodie proved many Chiefs fans would rather crucify a good, young player than allow him to grow into the position.

FAX

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 08:25 PM
What Brodie proved.

Brodie proved we have a gaggle of morons in charge of this organization. Brodie proved we had no running game today. Brodie proved our oline is a bunch of old ladies dressed up like football players. Brodie proved you can't throw it and catch it, too. Brodie proved many Chiefs fans would rather crucify a good, young player than allow him to grow into the position.

FAX

Well said, Mr FAX.

RedandGold
12-30-2007, 08:26 PM
He didn't show much, but it's tough to evaluate anyone with the bad OL and piss poor play-calling.

If this is the best that Solari can do after two years as an OC and absolutely nothing to lose (other than his job), he deserves to be shown the door.

Direckshun
12-30-2007, 08:31 PM
Every long pass was off target by about 5 feet.

He was consistently missing targets of near and intermediate distances.

He continues to doubt himself.

He doesn't have much of an internal clock when he's in the pocket, and once when he was under pressure, he ran backwards 5 yards.

He still pitches it 90 mph to dump-offs.

He's not the QB to lead this organization.

xbarretx
12-30-2007, 08:34 PM
Every long pass was off target by about 5 feet.

He was consistently missing targets of near and intermediate distances.

He continues to doubt himself.

He doesn't have much of an internal clock when he's in the pocket, and once when he was under pressure, he ran backwards 5 yards.

He still pitches it 90 mph to dump-offs.

He's not the QB to lead this organization.

to quote life aquatic with steve zizzou "i know what your saying, but i think you misunderstand the guy"

lets give him an o-line to build confidence, get the man some help with receivers (more than one) who can CATCH THE BALL. then if he doesnt improve and gain some confidence then yes.. our record should suck next year and we can hopefully find a franchise QB then while continuing to upgrade our team out of the pits of crapness.

Mr. Arrowhead
12-30-2007, 08:38 PM
there is no qb in the draft that is worthy of drafting anyways. So we might as well give him another year

jjchieffan
12-30-2007, 08:40 PM
Every long pass was off target by about 5 feet.

He was consistently missing targets of near and intermediate distances.

He continues to doubt himself.

He doesn't have much of an internal clock when he's in the pocket, and once when he was under pressure, he ran backwards 5 yards.

He still pitches it 90 mph to dump-offs.

He's not the QB to lead this organization.

I didn't see it that way. I saw alot of catchable passes dropped. I saw a lot of pressure because of poor offensive line play. I saw a nice touchdown pass.

I guess it is in your perception. I was looking for the positives. You, obviously, were looking for the negatives.

Pablo
12-30-2007, 08:40 PM
there is no qb in the draft that is worthy of drafting anyways. So we might as well give him another yearYou haven't heard Matt Ryan and/or Andre Woodson are marvels of God, destined to lead their respective organizations to the promised land?

Valiant
12-30-2007, 08:43 PM
Well I am glad after 6 starts we know he is crap..

Give me a ****ing break.. He is practically a rookie back there, this is what it is like for all of the other teams that grow with a young QB.. NOt everybody lucks into Brady or Rothlesberger(sp?)..

Pablo
12-30-2007, 08:45 PM
To be fairly well-centered.

I saw some of the same stuff I saw 6 weeks ago. I saw little to no touch on some passes, I saw him make some throws in tight windows, I saw him still trying to force the ball to Gonzo.

I saw the recievers drop probably 8-10 catchable balls, and Tony have one of his worst game in recent memory. I saw a line that couldn't block a fart with their hands, and I saw a lackluster running game, with the same unoriginal, bland playcalling, that has teams stacking 8 guys in the box on every down.

Brodie didn't show any streaks of genius today. He didn't show he was a dumbass either. He eluded a couple of tackles in the backfield, and took a couple tackles in the backfield.

He got rid of the ball a few times to avoid a costly sack, but also got trailed down by a very fast DB and stripped.

He showed me he's a second year guy who's playing behind the worst offensive line I've ever seen on a professional level. He showed me what happens when all of your RB's get injured, and your WR's don't even show up.

xbarretx
12-30-2007, 08:45 PM
Well I am glad after 6 starts we know he is crap..

Give me a ****ing break.. He is practically a rookie back there, this is what it is like for all of the other teams that grow with a young QB.. NOt everybody lucks into Brady or Rothlesberger(sp?)..

QFT, but how many times do we have to repeat ourselfs? :cuss:

Direckshun
12-30-2007, 08:47 PM
I didn't see it that way. I saw alot of catchable passes dropped. I saw a lot of pressure because of poor offensive line play. I saw a nice touchdown pass.

I guess it is in your perception. I was looking for the positives. You, obviously, were looking for the negatives.
Yeah whatever. My history on this website should provide me with the benefit of the doubt. I'm a cautiously optimistic Chiefs fan. I want the Chiefs to succeed. I'm not defending my perception any longer.

I was not overly impressed with any more than 5 passes Croyle's made all season. A part of that is playcalling that demands he makes the safe passes, I understand, but I'd be a lot more tolerant if he hadn't made a ton of shitty passes.

I sincerely think the best Croyle could evolve into is a decent starter, but I don't get the promise of a Pro Bowler from watching him play. And 75% of the time, you need a Pro Bowl QB to win the Super Bowl.

Mr. Arrowhead
12-30-2007, 08:48 PM
You haven't heard Matt Ryan and/or Andre Woodson are marvels of God, destined to lead their respective organizations to the promised land?
they are no better than brodie and they certainly worthy of top 5 pick. I smell Bust

hawkchief
12-30-2007, 08:49 PM
IMO, not near enough poise to QB an NFL team. Likeable guy, but I don't see any intangibles that make me think he's worth slotting for the future.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 08:50 PM
Well I am glad after 6 starts we know he is crap..

Give me a ****ing break.. He is practically a rookie back there, this is what it is like for all of the other teams that grow with a young QB.. NOt everybody lucks into Brady or Rothlesberger(sp?)..

Jay Cutler's first 5 starts:

81-137 for 1001 yards.

59.1% completion %

9 TD, 5 INT

13 sacks, 8 fumbles.

Brodie Croyle's first 5 starts:

98-169 for 963 yards.

57.9 completion %

4 TD, 4 INT

14 sacks, 4 fumbles.



Almost IDENTICAL stats. The TD's are lopsided in Cutler's favor, but Shanahan didn't handcuff the kid like Herm has Croyle.

With a much shittier offense, Croyle has all but equaled the stats of a guy drafted in the Top 11, who most consider to be doing a decent job for a young QB. Don't see Shanahan or Broncos fans giving up on Cutler yet.

Just like this year for Cutler, next year will be the telling point for Croyle, IMO.

Pablo
12-30-2007, 08:53 PM
they are no better than brodie and they certainly worthy of top 5 pick. I smell BustNeither one are necessarily better than Brodie when it comes to the physical/mental tools they possess.

The only thing they truly have an advantage in is their injury history. Brodie is a gamble, but I don't think any 1st round QB is going to come in and start next year or the year after and make any more of an impact than Croyle.

Ryan is probably a pretty solid Top 5 pick. That's just because this years QB class is pedestrian. If he's drafted in 2005 or 2006, he's easily the 3rd QB taken each time, and probably looking at a mid-late 1st round pick.

Ryan has great physical tools, but I don't think any young QB should have to try to develop behind this piss-poor line, with an injured RB corps, and a laughable recieving corps.

xbarretx
12-30-2007, 08:54 PM
Jay Cutler's first 5 starts:

81-137 for 1001 yards.

59.1% completion %

9 TD, 5 INT

13 sacks, 8 fumbles.

Brodie Croyle's first 5 starts:

98-169 for 963 yards.

57.9 completion %

4 TD, 4 INT

14 sacks, 4 fumbles.



Almost IDENTICAL stats. The TD's are lopsided in Cutler's favor, but Shanahan didn't handcuff the kid like Herm has Croyle.

With a much shittier offense, Croyle has all but equaled the stats of a guy drafted in the Top 11, who most consider to be doing a decent job for a young QB. Don't see Shanahan or Broncos fans giving up on Cutler yet.

Just like this year for Cutler, next year will be the telling point for Croyle, IMO.

:clap:

Direckshun
12-30-2007, 08:55 PM
Almost IDENTICAL stats. The TD's are lopsided in Cutler's favor, but Shanahan didn't handcuff the kid like Herm has Croyle.
Interesting POV, I'll hand it to you on that one.

But what do you think of Croyle's intangibles, though? Durability, leadership, poise, creating plays where none previously existed?

Direckshun
12-30-2007, 08:56 PM
I support Cleveland's approach to the issue.

Draft a stud QB if available with your #1 pick. Sit on him and let Croyle air it out in 2008. If Croyle works out, trade the stud off for a premier pick. If he doesn't, give him a clipboard and put out the stud in 2009.

GoHuge
12-30-2007, 08:58 PM
That our line sucks.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 09:08 PM
Interesting POV, I'll hand it to you on that one.

But what do you think of Croyle's intangibles, though? Durability, leadership, poise, creating plays where none previously existed?

I'll go through them one by one:

Durability

He's missed ONE start with a bruised kidney. And in the game he was injured, early, BTW, he went in, took a shot, and finished the game. Herm has treated him with the softest of kid gloves, IMO. Had the next game meant ANYTHING, I bet he would have played.

As far as the hand injury in Detroit, it's hard to tell. Chances are he couldn't grip the ball. But down 19-0, there's no reason to throw him back out there to find out, IMO. He started and played the entire game today with a heavily bandaged hand, when there was absolutely nothing but pride on the line.

Leadership

I watched a lot of him at Bama and this is a trait I think he has in spades. I saw a bit of a charge out of his teammate when he came into games early, but that wears as the season goes on. Plus, let's face it, there are some serious attitude issues/quitters that won't get in the way next year, hopefully.

Leadership also comes with experience, which he has little of. We'll be able to answer that question better next year after some more experience.

Poise

Doesn't seem to get rattled, even though he's constantly running for his life. Not a screamer/yeller, just tries to get the job done. Could have packed it in today, but led an 80 yard drive to tie the game late today.


Creating Plays

He's gotten plenty of experience in this area, since he's alway having to scramble. Does an average job, could do better regarding accuracy. He's no Vince Young, but isn't a statue back there like Huard. I think this is an area he COULD excel in with a better OL, better rapport with receivers and more experience.

scott free
12-30-2007, 09:18 PM
Yeah whatever. My history on this website should provide me with the benefit of the doubt.

I was not overly impressed with any more than 5 passes Croyle's made all season.

Yeah, up until now i'd always thought of you as level-headed & ready to look at the bad AND good. But that sure doesnt mean your some kind of infallible guru.

As for the 2nd sentence...get the f#ck outta here.

splatbass
12-30-2007, 09:27 PM
If some of you guys were GM we would never develop a QB because you give up too fast. And if you got your way and we drafted Ryan you would give up on him after 6 games too.

KC Tattoo
12-30-2007, 09:27 PM
If any thing he showed he is not made of GLASS today. He took some serious shots and got right back up.

I think Brodie is going to get better ofcourse with some games under his belt this year and he can study this offseason and work with D Bowe and his timing and accuracy will improve. JHC this is a pathetic O-line Brodie deserves a learning curve and chance to prove himself next year with some tallent built around him like most successfull QBs have.

I don't understand why a first round draft pick gets a free pass but a third rounder doesn't. Brodie is on a bad football team BAD football team. He had no luxery of a running game his receivers hardly get open or catch the ball.

That deep ball was on target to Webb, but Webb made no effort to make the catch. Later Webb made the catch in the endzone, but earlier in the game the pass was there for him in his hands.

So I am in Brodie's camp and will continue to like him for our future, I think he is going to have a successfull career and hope he can have better tallent around him so he can be successfull.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 09:30 PM
If some of you guys were GM we would never develop a QB because you give up too fast. And if you got your way and we drafted Ryan you would give up on him after 6 games too.

They'll give up on Ryan/Woodson/Brohm after a full season, per the chart.




Kansas City Chiefs Fan Impatience Chart

Chapter 1: Quarterbacks


R3 QB - 8 starts

R2 QB - 12 starts

R1 QB - 16 starts.

KC Tattoo
12-30-2007, 09:31 PM
I support Cleveland's approach to the issue.

Draft a stud QB if available with your #1 pick. Sit on him and let Croyle air it out in 2008. If Croyle works out, trade the stud off for a premier pick. If he doesn't, give him a clipboard and put out the stud in 2009.

Cleveland drafted Joe Thomas #1 pick 3rd overall. Big differance in pass protection for their QB than what Brodie has to work with. Look at the successfull QBs and teams and you will see that pass protection is KEY to their success.

Coach
12-30-2007, 09:37 PM
Jay Cutler's first 5 starts:

81-137 for 1001 yards.

59.1% completion %

9 TD, 5 INT

13 sacks, 8 fumbles.

Brodie Croyle's first 5 starts:

98-169 for 963 yards.

57.9 completion %

4 TD, 4 INT

14 sacks, 4 fumbles.



Almost IDENTICAL stats. The TD's are lopsided in Cutler's favor, but Shanahan didn't handcuff the kid like Herm has Croyle.

With a much shittier offense, Croyle has all but equaled the stats of a guy drafted in the Top 11, who most consider to be doing a decent job for a young QB. Don't see Shanahan or Broncos fans giving up on Cutler yet.

Just like this year for Cutler, next year will be the telling point for Croyle, IMO.

Great post.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 09:39 PM
Cleveland drafted Joe Thomas #1 pick 3rd overall. Big differance in pass protection for their QB than what Brodie has to work with. Look at the successfull QBs and teams and you will see that pass protection is KEY to their success.

You don't have to look any farther than today's game.

The one drive that Croyle had some time?

6 of 8 on an 80+ yard scoring drive.

mrub4
12-30-2007, 09:39 PM
The biggest thing that stood out to me today, was at one point he was scrambling and had room to run, but instead he slowed down as he approached the line and forced a pass in between a defender and the sideline. If he took off, he probably would have gained just as many yards and not risked an INT or incomplete pass.

He reminds me of Huard a little, in that instead of taking off running, he'll run in circles behind the line until someone gets open or he gets sacked/throws it away. Makes me wonder if that's more on the coaches than the players themselves

MadMax
12-30-2007, 09:43 PM
Yeah, up until now i'd always thought of you as level-headed & ready to look at the bad AND good. But that sure doesnt mean your some kind of infallible guru.

As for the 2nd sentence...get the f#ck outta here.


I hear ya and BS to peeps that give up on Croyle already :bong: I agree he has issues, but damn! give the kid more than less a halfa season. Thid team ainy doin squat for at least the next 2-4 seasons

scott free
12-30-2007, 09:46 PM
You don't have to look any farther than today's game.

The one drive that Croyle had some time?

6 of 8 on an 80+ yard scoring drive.

Bah, blind, stinking, doo-dah luck...just ask the resident "experts".

Its gonna be hell around here all offseason listening to some of these guys..."he had his chance with an otherworldly shitty team, lets move on".

Its going to get extremely nasty & contentious around here...i for one, am ready.

Direckshun
12-30-2007, 10:10 PM
Listen, I like Brodie Croyle, and I think he has the potential to develop into a decent QB.

But I haven't seen absolutely anything that suggests he can become a Pro Bowl QB, which is pretty much required for a Super Bowl run.

Micjones
12-30-2007, 10:10 PM
I love how we're making excuses for Croyle where we crucified Huard.

He hasn't shown the progress necessary for me to pass on a Matt Ryan. If I were pulling the trigger he'd have a #1 to compete with in camp.

Direckshun
12-30-2007, 10:13 PM
For the record, once again, I support playing Croyle in 2008.

I just think we'd be wise to draft Ryan or Woodson and handle that situation like the Browns have.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 10:15 PM
Listen, I like Brodie Croyle, and I think he has the potential to develop into a decent QB.

But I haven't seen absolutely anything that suggests he can become a Pro Bowl QB, which is pretty much required for a Super Bowl run.

Super Bowl run? That's a bit skewed considering the Patriots dominance.

But then again, anything can happen in the playoffs.

Just ask:

Todd Collins
Eli Manning
Jeff Garcia
Vince Young
David Garrard
Philip Rivers

ChiefsCountry
12-30-2007, 10:16 PM
I love how we're making excuses for Croyle where we crucified Huard.

Croyle is in his second year, Huard is an old vet. Big difference.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 10:17 PM
I love how we're making excuses for Croyle where we crucified Huard.

He hasn't shown the progress necessary for me to pass on a Matt Ryan. If I were pulling the trigger he'd have a #1 to compete with in camp.

Huard was crucified because he was making the same mistakes that rookie QB's make.

Last I checked, he finished the season with 2 more INT's than TD's.

The "turnover machine," as he was called by some was dead even.

I guess Denver should have shit-canned Cutler after his first 5 starts too?

Extra Point
12-30-2007, 10:20 PM
Two seasons from now, Croyle may be starting. Three seasons from now he will be holding a clipboard.

KC Tattoo
12-30-2007, 10:21 PM
For the record, once again, I support playing Croyle in 2008.

I just think we'd be wise to draft Ryan or Woodson and handle that situation like the Browns have.

The Browns addressed their O-line in the draft first. They have a good O-line and a running game aswell. Like I said the most successfull teams in the league protect the QB and have sollid O-lines. Also the teams with good defense get to the QBs and have sollid DTs that can penatrate the O-line and stuff the plays before they develope.

Direckshun
12-30-2007, 10:22 PM
Super Bowl run? That's a bit skewed considering the Patriots dominance.

But then again, anything can happen in the playoffs.

Just ask:

Todd Collins
Eli Manning
Jeff Garcia
Vince Young
David Garrard
Philip Rivers
Only three teams are making a Super Bowl run this year, and they all sport Pro Bowl QBs.

Four if you think Green Bay has a chance.

dj56dt58
12-30-2007, 10:24 PM
He proved you can't evaluate a quarterback after 6 starts. If that were the case Aikman. Brady and Manning would be flipping burgers

blueballs
12-30-2007, 10:24 PM
Croyle had the mighty Jackie Battle
Chiefs RB after LJ/Priest/Bennett/Smith/Harris
#6

Direckshun
12-30-2007, 10:24 PM
The Browns addressed their O-line in the draft first.
The Browns are developing Derek Anderson, and they weren't pleased with his progress.

They drafted at stud and gave the reins to Anderson.

Anderson soars somehow, and now they've got some impressive trade bait.

Pablo
12-30-2007, 10:26 PM
Croyle had the mighty Jackie Battle
Chiefs RB after LJ/Priest/Bennett/Smith/Harris
#6With that kind of respected RB in the backfield, the defense had to stay honest!

blueballs
12-30-2007, 10:29 PM
Battle - all things considered
not bad for a guy loading UPS trucks
3 weeks ago

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 10:30 PM
The Browns are developing Derek Anderson, and they weren't pleased with his progress.

They drafted at stud and gave the reins to Anderson.

Anderson soars somehow, and now they've got some impressive trade bait.

No one is going to give Cleveland a R1 and R3 for Anderson.

And the only reason Quinn is tradeable is because he is paid like the 20th pick of the draft.

Try picking Matt Ryan at #4-5, signing him to the contract required for that pick, then being able to trade him.

And if you're at the point of trading Ryan, that means Croyle has value, and is doing well. Why would you trade a young QB who's playing well just to hand over the reins to an unknown?

You wouldn't.

chiefsfan1963
12-30-2007, 10:32 PM
With or without a good OL Croyle has not shown us any reason not to draft a quality QB in the draft.

Direckshun
12-30-2007, 10:34 PM
No one is going to give Cleveland a R1 and R3 for Anderson.
They don't want to trade Anderson.

He played extremely well this year -- if anything, they want to trade Quinn.
And the only reason Quinn is tradeable is because he is paid like the 20th pick of the draft.
That and he's a top prospect who looked really solid in the time he's seen the field.
Try picking Matt Ryan at #4-5, signing him to the contract required for that pick, then being able to trade him.

And if you're at the point of trading Ryan, that means Croyle has value, and is doing well. Why would you trade a young QB who's playing well just to hand over the reins to an unknown?
...I don't understand. I don't want to trade Croyle if he's playing well, I'd want to trade Ryan.

He wouldn't be easy to trade because of the price tag, but if he has the talents of a Top 5er, that can be worked out.

ChiefsCountry
12-30-2007, 10:34 PM
My opinion on Croyle: I think he has the intangiables to be an All-Pro if he can stay healthy. He has looked pretty good acutally considering all the turds around him on the OL and WR core. Also he has not had LJ in the backfield with him. Not in preseason or an the regular season. That would help out alot in my book. I thinking a Trent Green/Vinny Testverade type player, not an elite QB but the next tier that would be a Pro Bowler fairly often.

ChiefsCountry
12-30-2007, 10:35 PM
He played extremely well this year -- if anything, they want to trade Quinn.

Browns arent going to trade Quinn. His ceiling is way higher than Anderson, plus they gave up quite a bit to get him. Anderson would be the one they get rid of.

OnTheWarpath58
12-30-2007, 10:36 PM
They don't want to trade Anderson.

He played extremely well this year -- if anything, they want to trade Quinn.

That and he's a top prospect who looked really solid in the time he's seen the field.

...I don't understand. I don't want to trade Croyle if he's playing well, I'd want to trade Ryan.

He wouldn't be easy to trade because of the price tag, but if he has the talents of a Top 5er, that can be worked out.

You're never going to get the necessary value for a guy you took with a Top 5 pick by trading him without him ever playing a down.

MadMax
12-30-2007, 10:39 PM
I love how we're making excuses for Croyle where we crucified Huard.

He hasn't shown the progress necessary for me to pass on a Matt Ryan. If I were pulling the trigger he'd have a #1 to compete with in camp.


Yep let's dump him, we are suxors anywyas and Damn I'm happy as **** you aint da GM

KC Tattoo
12-30-2007, 10:44 PM
They don't want to trade Anderson.

He played extremely well this year -- if anything, they want to trade Quinn.

That and he's a top prospect who looked really solid in the time he's seen the field.

...I don't understand. I don't want to trade Croyle if he's playing well, I'd want to trade Ryan.

He wouldn't be easy to trade because of the price tag, but if he has the talents of a Top 5er, that can be worked out.

But still that is not fair to Croyle for not giving him the players around him for success. & it wouldn't do much good for Ryan either behind this O-line. We'd be giving up either a stud O-lineman or a stud DT if we are lucky enough to get & we need badly. Give Croyle a fighters chance please then ofcourse we still have Thigpen or get another QB in next years draft with the tallent in place for that QB to be successfull but first we need tallent for the QB to be successfull either way. I think Croyle can be successfull with improved O-line and a #2 WR.

philfree
12-30-2007, 11:02 PM
Croyle had one impressive drive. That was after he had been beaten up by the D all day long. He's shown he's tough and by the way he did it today he's shown he's mentally tough as well. He showed growth and improvement by not throwing an int. I haven't checked his stats but there was a handful of drops by Gonzo, Bowe and Webb. He never quit and he never started the duck and chuck like alot of guys do after they've been hit over and over. I thought he showed something today and IMO he's the starter next year. Yeah he needs some competition but he should be viewd as the incumbant.

PhilFree:arrow:

Frosty
12-31-2007, 01:35 AM
The Browns are developing Derek Anderson, and they weren't pleased with his progress.

They drafted at stud and gave the reins to Anderson.

Anderson soars somehow, and now they've got some impressive trade bait.

No they weren't. They were developing Charlie Frye and lucked into having DA fall into their lap when Frye flamed out and Quinn wasn't ready.

MadMax
12-31-2007, 01:38 AM
Croyle had one impressive drive. That was after he had been beaten up by the D all day long. He's shown he's tough and by the way he did it today he's shown he's mentally tough as well. He showed growth and improvement by not throwing an int. I haven't checked his stats but there was a handful of drops by Gonzo, Bowe and Webb. He never quit and he never started the duck and chuck like alot of guys do after they've been hit over and over. I thought he showed something today and IMO he's the starter next year. Yeah he needs some competition but he should be viewd as the incumbant.

PhilFree:arrow:


I agree Mister Phil... We saw the same guy.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 01:51 AM
This is what will happen, no matter how Croyle performs even if it's downright awful. There will be a segment of fans that will always think he is "the guy" and he needs "this player" or "that player" whether it's a receiver or a lineman or whatever. Then there will be people that he will never be the guy to for various reasons...I've seen this happen with some of my friends teams..

The Bills for example, you can pull up one of their boards and see how some people still think Losman deserves more chances after 3 years. I'm sure that will happen here to unless the organization makes it fully clear he isn't the guy.

Now my overall opinion of Croyle is that his frame won't support any more weight with makes him a smallish injury prone QB. He has a strong arm, it takes more than that to be good, if it didn't JaMarcus Russell would be the greatest ever already and Kyle Boller would be awesome.

I think Croyle is the same as a ton of guys who come out and get a chance are. He's a young guy with a strong arm who can make some throws because of it and people get excited. But I think he lacks to many key things to ever be overly successful. I don't see the intangibles. I see very poor pocket presence, I see a guy who stares down receivers, a guy who threw a rocket to a guy standing right next to him...I don't see his "intelligence" or "accuracy". I think Brodie Croyle could be a decent backup on a good team that could win a game or 2 in a "don't lose the game for us" kind of way.

I don't think you'll ever remotely contend for a championship with Croyle under center, and that's what it's all about.

As for today, I thought he played pretty poor, he had a nice drive in the 4th to tie the game. I still overall consider completing around 50%, scoring 10 points, and struggling for nearly the entire game a poor performance when it is against a very poor Jets team.

Say as you will but a guy today with no training camp who came in late, who many here said they'd rather have Croyle than in JaMarcus Russell...played a better game.

MadMax
12-31-2007, 02:07 AM
This is what will happen, no matter how Croyle performs even if it's downright awful. There will be a segment of fans that will always think he is "the guy" and he needs "this player" or "that player" whether it's a receiver or a lineman or whatever. Then there will be people that he will never be the guy to for various reasons...I've seen this happen with some of my friends teams..

The Bills for example, you can pull up one of their boards and see how some people still think Losman deserves more chances after 3 years. I'm sure that will happen here to unless the organization makes it fully clear he isn't the guy.

Now my overall opinion of Croyle is that his frame won't support any more weight with makes him a smallish injury prone QB. He has a strong arm, it takes more than that to be good, if it didn't JaMarcus Russell would be the greatest ever already and Kyle Boller would be awesome.

I think Croyle is the same as a ton of guys who come out and get a chance are. He's a young guy with a strong arm who can make some throws because of it and people get excited. But I think he lacks to many key things to ever be overly successful. I don't see the intangibles. I see very poor pocket presence, I see a guy who stares down receivers, a guy who threw a rocket to a guy standing right next to him...I don't see his "intelligence" or "accuracy". I think Brodie Croyle could be a decent backup on a good team that could win a game or 2 in a "don't lose the game for us" kind of way.

I don't think you'll ever remotely contend for a championship with Croyle under center, and that's what it's all about.

As for today, I thought he played pretty poor, he had a nice drive in the 4th to tie the game. I still overall consider completing around 50%, scoring 10 points, and struggling for nearly the entire game a poor performance when it is against a very poor Jets team.

Say as you will but a guy today with no training camp who came in late, who many here said they'd rather have Croyle than in JaMarcus Russell...played a better game.



Yeah Mecca I really think he is better than you percieve him to be, that being said, if after half of next season he stinks the joint up then **** him. The sad thing is we coulda known this by now but damn give the kid a legit chance.If he is not good enough I'll be the 1st to admit that.We aint goin anywhere soon anyways,not like we have q lot of options at this point.This team is so pathetic in every phase of the game it's soooo deprerssing.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 02:13 AM
They didn't play him because it's a classic Chiefs move....now they can sign or trade for some vet QB. As the "salvage the season and win 8 games plan" while also using it as an excuse to not draft a high QB.

I still to this day fully believe a good reason they didn't play Croyle early, at least from Peterson is so he can say "we don't know about Brodie Croyle" to avoid using a top 5 pick on a QB. Peterson wanted Huard out there to win the 8 games, when that didn't happen he put Croyle out there, now they can say he is the guy and they don't know about him and have an excuse to not take say Matt Ryan.

It's classic Chiefs and a great way for Carl to avoid sending the message he doesn't want to send to casual fan, you take a QB in the top 5 that is the message of you totally suck and it's gonna be a few years, the last thing Carl wants.

MadMax
12-31-2007, 02:18 AM
They didn't play him because it's a classic Chiefs move....now they can sign or trade for some vet QB. As the "salvage the season and win 8 games plan" while also using it as an excuse to not draft a high QB.

I still to this day fully believe a good reason they didn't play Croyle early, at least from Peterson is so he can say "we don't know about Brodie Croyle" to avoid using a top 5 pick on a QB. Peterson wanted Huard out there to win the 8 games, when that didn't happen he put Croyle out there, now they can say he is the guy and they don't know about him and have an excuse to not take say Matt Ryan.

It's classic Chiefs and a great way for Carl to avoid sending the message he doesn't want to send to casual fan, you take a QB in the top 5 that is the message of you totally suck and it's gonna be a few years, the last thing Carl wants.



Sadly I agree

TEX
12-31-2007, 07:01 AM
This is what will happen, no matter how Croyle performs even if it's downright awful. There will be a segment of fans that will always think he is "the guy" and he needs "this player" or "that player" whether it's a receiver or a lineman or whatever. Then there will be people that he will never be the guy to for various reasons...I've seen this happen with some of my friends teams..

The Bills for example, you can pull up one of their boards and see how some people still think Losman deserves more chances after 3 years. I'm sure that will happen here to unless the organization makes it fully clear he isn't the guy.

Now my overall opinion of Croyle is that his frame won't support any more weight with makes him a smallish injury prone QB. He has a strong arm, it takes more than that to be good, if it didn't JaMarcus Russell would be the greatest ever already and Kyle Boller would be awesome.

I think Croyle is the same as a ton of guys who come out and get a chance are. He's a young guy with a strong arm who can make some throws because of it and people get excited. But I think he lacks to many key things to ever be overly successful. I don't see the intangibles. I see very poor pocket presence, I see a guy who stares down receivers, a guy who threw a rocket to a guy standing right next to him...I don't see his "intelligence" or "accuracy". I think Brodie Croyle could be a decent backup on a good team that could win a game or 2 in a "don't lose the game for us" kind of way.

I don't think you'll ever remotely contend for a championship with Croyle under center, and that's what it's all about.

As for today, I thought he played pretty poor, he had a nice drive in the 4th to tie the game. I still overall consider completing around 50%, scoring 10 points, and struggling for nearly the entire game a poor performance when it is against a very poor Jets team.

Say as you will but a guy today with no training camp who came in late, who many here said they'd rather have Croyle than in JaMarcus Russell...played a better game.

Very well said! :clap:

InChiefsHell
12-31-2007, 07:29 AM
Brody did as well as could be expected, with a few exceptions. The strip when he was rolling out was in-excusable. You simply MUST have more awareness than that, especially considering the fact that you have been running for you life the whole game. He's lucky he didn't lose that fumble, but it never should have happened to begin with, and that's on Brodie.

Other than that, he had a few passes that were absolute shit, not a lot of touch on the ball still after a few starts, and off target on a couple where he wasn't particularly hurried.

On the positive side, he did make some really nice throws that were dropped, quite a few that were caught, and had an impressive drive for the tying TD in the 4th quarter. He scrambled decently and got out of many sure sacks that Huard would have absolutely gone down on.

Basically, I think Brodie got pummeled and never got hurt, I think he's still learning the speed of the game, and I think he'll be back next year as the starter and probably rightly so. I also think he has next year and that's all. If he can't get better with the intangibles, then he ain't got what it takes, and we move on from there.

...and oh yeah, here's the obligatory "and we need a fuggin' O-Line" portion of my post.

CupidStunt
12-31-2007, 07:33 AM
One of the least accurate QBs in the NFL. Couldn't hit a Norv Turner crater if he was swinging on LT's applesack.

suds79
12-31-2007, 07:55 AM
I'll tell you something I noticed about Croyle today. He rarely utilizes touch.

5 yards away to 30, it doesn't matter. Here comes the fast ball so you'd better be ready.

Yes guys should still catch the ball but I saw some missed fastballs from Croyle that could of easily been completed.

eazyb81
12-31-2007, 08:18 AM
Jay Cutler's first 5 starts:

81-137 for 1001 yards.

59.1% completion %

9 TD, 5 INT

13 sacks, 8 fumbles.

Brodie Croyle's first 5 starts:

98-169 for 963 yards.

57.9 completion %

4 TD, 4 INT

14 sacks, 4 fumbles.



Almost IDENTICAL stats. The TD's are lopsided in Cutler's favor, but Shanahan didn't handcuff the kid like Herm has Croyle.


So Brodie Croyle had worse stats in every category than Cutler did, even though Brodie didn't start a game until his 2nd year and thus had an extra year to learn the offense, review game film, and work with his offensive players?

Gosh, think how good he would be if we didn't start him until his 5th year!

eazyb81
12-31-2007, 08:22 AM
This is what will happen, no matter how Croyle performs even if it's downright awful. There will be a segment of fans that will always think he is "the guy" and he needs "this player" or "that player" whether it's a receiver or a lineman or whatever. Then there will be people that he will never be the guy to for various reasons...I've seen this happen with some of my friends teams..

The Bills for example, you can pull up one of their boards and see how some people still think Losman deserves more chances after 3 years. I'm sure that will happen here to unless the organization makes it fully clear he isn't the guy.

Now my overall opinion of Croyle is that his frame won't support any more weight with makes him a smallish injury prone QB. He has a strong arm, it takes more than that to be good, if it didn't JaMarcus Russell would be the greatest ever already and Kyle Boller would be awesome.

I think Croyle is the same as a ton of guys who come out and get a chance are. He's a young guy with a strong arm who can make some throws because of it and people get excited. But I think he lacks to many key things to ever be overly successful. I don't see the intangibles. I see very poor pocket presence, I see a guy who stares down receivers, a guy who threw a rocket to a guy standing right next to him...I don't see his "intelligence" or "accuracy". I think Brodie Croyle could be a decent backup on a good team that could win a game or 2 in a "don't lose the game for us" kind of way.

I don't think you'll ever remotely contend for a championship with Croyle under center, and that's what it's all about.

As for today, I thought he played pretty poor, he had a nice drive in the 4th to tie the game. I still overall consider completing around 50%, scoring 10 points, and struggling for nearly the entire game a poor performance when it is against a very poor Jets team.

Say as you will but a guy today with no training camp who came in late, who many here said they'd rather have Croyle than in JaMarcus Russell...played a better game.

Great post Mecca.

OnTheWarpath58
12-31-2007, 11:44 AM
Say as you will but a guy today with no training camp who came in late, who many here said they'd rather have Croyle than in JaMarcus Russell...played a better game.

Played a better game?

Please tell me you're either kidding, or didn't watch the game.

Russell threw for 30 more yards that Croyle, each threw for a TD, each lost.

Oh, and Russell turn the ball over TWICE, with those turnovers leading directly to 14 San Diego points.

Pure coincidence that the Raiders lost by.......thirteen.

Reerun_KC
12-31-2007, 11:50 AM
Listen, I like Brodie Croyle, and I think he has the potential to develop into a decent QB.

But I haven't seen absolutely anything that suggests he can become a Pro Bowl QB, which is pretty much required for a Super Bowl run.


What makes you think that this coaching staff is going to develop any one player into a player required for a Super Bowl run...

Right now with Carl, Herm and their band of dipshits running this team, Brady and the 16-0 Pats would be 8-8 at best right now.

Croyle has no chance to succeed in KC, nor does many other players...

OnTheWarpath58
12-31-2007, 11:52 AM
So Brodie Croyle had worse stats in every category than Cutler did, even though Brodie didn't start a game until his 2nd year and thus had an extra year to learn the offense, review game film, and work with his offensive players?

Gosh, think how good he would be if we didn't start him until his 5th year!

Good thing you posted this when you did, just in time to add it to the dumbest posts of 2007 list.....

As if it wasn't already obvious how little you know about football, you sealed the deal with that beauty.

If sitting on your ass reviewing game film and "working with your offensive players" is all that it took to be a good QB, Damon Huard would be in ****ing Canton.

I've posted it before, but it fits again....

Kurt Warner once told me that there is NO SUBSTITUTE for playing in regular real games. Practice and film does not prepare you for the speed of the game, or prep your decision making process.

But hey, what does he know. He's only a SBMVP, who got passed around like the prom queen until he actually got his chance.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 02:43 PM
Played a better game?

Please tell me you're either kidding, or didn't watch the game.

Russell threw for 30 more yards that Croyle, each threw for a TD, each lost.

Oh, and Russell turn the ball over TWICE, with those turnovers leading directly to 14 San Diego points.

Pure coincidence that the Raiders lost by.......thirteen.

Let's see....

Russell has been in his offensive system for what about 6 months? He had no training camp...this is his rookie year, he competed better than 50% with more than 10 yards per completion...

Croyle on the other hand has been in this system nearly 2 years...and we know what his stats were...who's further a long? The turnovers stuff is funny seeing as Croyle was getting his brains beat in and throwing pick 6's till he finally played a team as hapless as the Jets.

OnTheWarpath58
12-31-2007, 02:49 PM
Let's see....

Russell has been in his offensive system for what about 6 months? He had no training camp...this is his rookie year, he competed better than 50% with more than 10 yards per completion...

Croyle on the other hand has been in this system nearly 2 years...and we know what his stats were...who's further a long? The turnovers stuff is funny seeing as Croyle was getting his brains beat in and throwing pick 6's till he finally played a team as hapless as the Jets.

And that's why he was the #1 overall pick.

For the eleventy billionth time:

Sitting on the bench does not prepare you to become a NFL quarterback.

Playing does.

So Croyle has about 4 games on Russell, who has about 80 draft slots on Croyle.

The turnover thing IS hilarious, considering Russell has thrown as many picks as Croyle this year in HALF the time.

It's OK that you hate Croyle. But just admit it, instead of making shit up.

Pablo
12-31-2007, 02:49 PM
Considering JaMarcus Russell has a *sad to say* much more talented line with the Raiders, and not to mention the number 6 rushing offense.

It's easy to put up average numbers in your first year with a fairly effective supporting cast.

You can't argue the fact that Oakland does have a much better line than ours, and their rushing attack, although with scrubs has been pretty damn impressive at times this year.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 02:50 PM
I'm only using that comparison because Croyle had a landslide lead in votes in a poll with Russell about "who you'd rather have" that to me was truly laughable...

Either people really homer it up or we know why Carl is here...not willing to take the risk, no reward.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 02:51 PM
Considering JaMarcus Russell has a *sad to say* much more talented line with the Raiders, and not to mention the number 6 rushing offense.

It's easy to put up average numbers in your first year with a fairly effective supporting cast.

You can't argue the fact that Oakland does have a much better line than ours, and their rushing attack, although with scrubs has been pretty damn impressive at times this year.

Sure and Russell also has about a million times more talent than Croyle does too but that didn't stop people from being like "oh Croyle is the man he's better than JaMarcus!"

Pablo
12-31-2007, 02:53 PM
In the games Russell has played in, all he has proved so far is he can throw interceptions and put the ball on the ground if necessary.

I did see him make a pretty nice TD pass yesterday, but he had about 5 seconds in the pocket, so that shouldn't be too surprising.

Not to mention, they've only won 1 game JaMarcus Russell has played in, and that was against the Broncos in trash time, with 7 passing attempts.

Saying JaMarcus Russell had a promising start, or looked much better than Croyle is just a stretch.

OnTheWarpath58
12-31-2007, 02:54 PM
Considering JaMarcus Russell has a *sad to say* much more talented line with the Raiders, and not to mention the number 6 rushing offense.

It's easy to put up average numbers in your first year with a fairly effective supporting cast.

You can't argue the fact that Oakland does have a much better line than ours, and their rushing attack, although with scrubs has been pretty damn impressive at times this year.

That's the thing:

He didn't put up better numbers.

His TD/INT ratio and completion percentage is worse than Croyle's

Their yards per completion are nearly identical, 5.7/5.5

Mecca
12-31-2007, 02:55 PM
I think my point of it is, Croyle and Russell neither have shown a great deal it's about the same. 1 guy has been on his team 2 years, another came in extremely late with no camp yet is still at the same spot...

Now granted Russell was the #1 pick, that isn't my point because it seems many here think Croyle has some better future than Russell does. Everyone goes back to Croyles arm, Russell has the strongest arm I've ever seen...he also isn't frail or made of glass...

So once again um how is Croyle the guy that many would rather have?

Pablo
12-31-2007, 02:56 PM
Sure and Russell also has about a million times more talent than Croyle does too but that didn't stop people from being like "oh Croyle is the man he's better than JaMarcus!"No, the real issue was JaMarcus' payday. I don't want JaMarcus Russell for $60 million.

dirk digler
12-31-2007, 02:58 PM
That's the thing:

He didn't put up better numbers.

His TD/INT ratio and completion percentage is worse than Croyle's

Their yards per completion are nearly identical, 5.7/5.5

You can't compare Brodie vs Russell because Russell only played in what 2 games at most and his first start was yesterday

Mecca
12-31-2007, 02:58 PM
No, the real issue was JaMarcus' payday. I don't want JaMarcus Russell for $60 million.

Not willing to take the risk, no reward. If you have the #1 pick you have to swing for it. I at the very least have respect for the Raiders for taking the risk. It's the only way you'll ever win....

Pablo
12-31-2007, 02:59 PM
Mecca, how much do you honestly expect Matt Ryan to command? What kind of contract?

I'd much rather have Ryan over Russell. I'd rather have Quinn over Ryan. I think they'd both come at a much cheaper price tag.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 03:01 PM
Mecca, how much do you honestly expect Matt Ryan to command? What kind of contract?

I'd much rather have Ryan over Russell. I'd rather have Quinn over Ryan. I think they'd both come at a much cheaper price tag.

Depends where he gets picked, drafting is all about the slot, Whoever the Chiefs draft will expect to get paid it's a top 5 pick.

That being said, I'd rather a QB and ride with that, if anything has been proven it's that good teams pay that position. You cycle in and out at other positions but not that one, you get your franchise guy and everything around him changes and you stay good..

Look at the Colts, that's a great example, hell even the Pats. In 5 years the Cowboys will still be good while most everything around Romo has changed, but he will be the constant.

KC kid
12-31-2007, 03:02 PM
Mecca, how much do you honestly expect Matt Ryan to command? What kind of contract?

I'd much rather have Ryan over Russell. I'd rather have Quinn over Ryan. I think they'd both come at a much cheaper price tag.


I LOVE Brian Brohm, but I would be ok with Matt Ryan. We need to not let Carl keep us at status quo 8-8 by drafting safe picks

Pablo
12-31-2007, 03:04 PM
Depends where he gets picked, drafting is all about the slot, Whoever the Chiefs draft will expect to get paid it's a top 5 pick.

That being said, I'd rather a QB and ride with that, if anything has been proven it's that good teams pay that position. You cycle in and out at other positions but not that one, you get your franchise guy and everything around him changes and you stay good..

Look at the Colts, that's a great example, hell even the Pats. In 5 years the Cowboys will still be good while most everything around Romo has changed, but he will be the constant.JaMarcus held out of camp and demanded Dwight Freeney money, Peyton Manning money. How in the f*ck do you justify that? I'm not saying JaMarcus didn't deserve to get paid, but $60 million is way too damn steep.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 03:06 PM
Let's ask this question, seeing as I'm pretty sure the Raiders will draft McFadden...

Who would you feel more comfortable going to your future with Russell/McFadden or Croyle/Johnson....I'm not sure how long the Chiefs backfield can stay on the field.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 03:07 PM
JaMarcus held out of camp and demanded Dwight Freeney money, Peyton Manning money. How in the f*ck do you justify that? I'm not saying JaMarcus didn't deserve to get paid, but $60 million is way too damn steep.


#1 pick, the money increases every year.....whoever goes 1 this year may get more than he does, unless they agree to a cheaper deal before the draft so they can be the #1 pick.

Pablo
12-31-2007, 03:10 PM
Let's ask this question, seeing as I'm pretty sure the Raiders will draft McFadden...

Who would you feel more comfortable going to your future with Russell/McFadden or Croyle/Johnson....I'm not sure how long the Chiefs backfield can stay on the field.I don't suppose I'd like to draft a RB that high. Seeing as how you can get a guy like Addai, or a guy like Jones-Drew late first, second round. If I were the Raiders I'd go after Chris Long. How are they gonna pass on Howie's boy?

Mecca
12-31-2007, 03:24 PM
With them I think I'd go McFadden, they need some young stars. If Michael Bush can recover from his leg injury they can have an awesome 1-2 punch that goes with their QB.

If you take a QB #1 overall your franchise direction has to be to build the team around him.

Mr. Flopnuts
12-31-2007, 03:32 PM
With them I think I'd go McFadden, they need some young stars. If Michael Bush can recover from his leg injury they can have an awesome 1-2 punch that goes with their QB.

If you take a QB #1 overall your franchise direction has to be to build the team around him.


The Raiders are taking McFadden, I'm sure of it. They'd be fools not too. If they were right about Russell, they could be in good shape for a long time. This isn't the first time I've said that I think McFadden is the next LT.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 03:33 PM
McFadden could have Adrian Peterson like impact on the league.

Mr. Flopnuts
12-31-2007, 03:34 PM
McFadden could have Adrian Peterson like impact on the league.


Exactly. A better measuring stick, considering the impact AD had in his rookie season. I think McFadden has the same skill set. That's saying something.

ChiefGator
12-31-2007, 09:16 PM
Not willing to take the risk, no reward. If you have the #1 pick you have to swing for it. I at the very least have respect for the Raiders for taking the risk. It's the only way you'll ever win....

As opposed to?......

Yeah, awfully brave of the Raiders to draft #1 overall. Too bad our franchise wasn't that brave. I expected them just to ball up and not draft at all.

If you take a QB #1 overall your franchise direction has to be to build the team around him.

Again, as opposed to?...... NOT building your franchise?

I'm not convinced of either Russell or Croyle. In fact, Russell has looked like crap to me, and wasn't able to get on the field until the last couple games, despite the fact the Raiders are awful.

Croyle at least sat on the back seat while we made a playoff run last year.

Seriously, at this point, I wouldn't trade Croyle for Russell even without Russell's exorbitant pay. I'm just not convinced Russell won't be a huge flop.

Not convinced Croyle won't be either, but we should know this time next year.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 09:33 PM
It's Russells rookie year in which he had no training camp....did Brodie Croyle play last year...

Croyle has been in the league a year longer than Russell...

What I meant by that comment about building is this, if you take a QB first that means you build your offense to be the elite side of your team,you don't ignore your defense but you build for that QB.

Also my other comment you didn't get, The Raiders had the balls to take the QB. It appears many here and the Chiefs organization wouldn't have those same balls...with a top 5 pick.

It works like this, it all starts at QB. You give Croyle another year and have to draft another QB, you set everything back 3 years. QB is where it all starts without that you'll never be great, even if that means drafting a QB every 2 years till you get that guy.

ChiefGator
12-31-2007, 09:43 PM
What I meant by that comment about building is this, if you take a QB first that means you build your offense to be the elite side of your team,you don't ignore your defense but you build for that QB.

Damn, you been a Chiefs fan too long. You try to build a balanced team, not one elite side. I wouldn't pass up McFadden if I'm Oakland, but they have a nucleus for a good defense, albiet one that is getting older.

Also my other comment you didn't get, The Raiders had the balls to take the QB. It appears many here and the Chiefs organization wouldn't have those same balls...with a top 5 pick.

Raiders had the balls to draft the WRONG qb. Time will prove this I think. Al is too in love with the long ball. (no scrodum jokes please)

You give Croyle another year and have to draft another QB, you set everything back 3 years. QB is where it all starts without that you'll never be great, even if that means drafting a QB every 2 years till you get that guy.

Too many other pressing needs on this team, and not enough value at QB where we will be picking. I expect we will draft a qb in a later round though.

Every QB starter does not need to be a high first rounder. Time to pull out the tape on Dilfer's super bowl.