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petegz28
12-31-2007, 04:44 PM
Give the kid a break. He split time in camp and in practice with Huard, he plays behid the worst O-Line in football and he is brand new.

WTF are people slamming him for?


Those things all matter and seem to get over looked by many. I don't care how good you are training camp and practice time are very important. Croyle had to split it most of the time where any other starter would not. And it shows. Not to mention he has no way to trust his o-line to protect him. The TD he threw yesterday was great! Got hit as he threw,t hrew it to the right spot of the field...it was all he could do.


Injuries are about all anyone can lay on the kid. The rest is ****ing BS.

siberian khatru
12-31-2007, 04:45 PM
Give the kid a break.

I don't think that's a phrase you want to use with Croyle.

petegz28
12-31-2007, 04:45 PM
I don't think that's a phrase you want to use with Croyle.


ROFL


touche!

Mecca
12-31-2007, 04:46 PM
I feel like a Bills fan discussing JP Losman, one of my very best friends has been laughing at me for 2 years now going, HAHA you got JP Losman Jr...

Damn bad omens now our board has turned into the Bills board with the constant QB threads where some people will always think he is the guy.

blueballs
12-31-2007, 04:49 PM
where as HUTARD got shafted by one
Hootie

Pablo
12-31-2007, 04:49 PM
Don't... Just don't.

Some people have and always will dislike Croyle, some people love him and will blindly defend him until their deaths, some people remain on the fence. Some people aren't content with trying to develop any young QB, especially a 3rd rounder.

All we know is that this wasn't the year for our supposed QBOTF to start 6 games. This was an absolutely horrible year, and Brodie did little to hurt or enhance his status as a sure-fire starter next season.

blueballs
12-31-2007, 04:51 PM
Several disliked Green all the way through
his time as a Chief

Pablo
12-31-2007, 04:54 PM
Several disliked Green all the way through
his time as a ChiefIt's the nature of our fanbase. When you haven't won anything in as long as we haven't, then fans have little to be optomistic about. Green was a journey-man, who bought us a couple years time, but ultimately brought little to the table. Sure, he was a pro-bowler, when he was surrounded by a pro-bowl cast.

Mr. Laz
12-31-2007, 04:54 PM
with the crap system/crap coaching/crap Oline it's hard to tell anything about the QB.



the accuracy issue is what bothers me

he had guys open and just plain missed ... but he did start to settle down and hit his spots late in the game against the jets.

corandval
12-31-2007, 04:54 PM
I am not saying Croyle is our QBOTF, but to compare him to Losman is a bit much. Losman has had more than enough time to prove he is not a QBOTF. Croyle only has had 6 starts!

Pablo
12-31-2007, 04:57 PM
I am not saying Croyle is our QBOTF, but to compare him to Losman is a bit much. Losman has had more than enough time to prove he is not a QBOTF. Croyle only has had 6 starts!Quite a few Chiefs fans expect instant gratification. When he made his first start and didn't lead us to victory with 300 yards passing and 4 TD's, he was a "scrub" in their books. Not to mention the injury factor, and the fact that our coaching staff has been babying him.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 04:59 PM
I am not saying Croyle is our QBOTF, but to compare him to Losman is a bit much. Losman has had more than enough time to prove he is not a QBOTF. Croyle only has had 6 starts!

I know I use that comparison due to my friend. He was watching the game yesterday and said if they switched jerseys you'd never be able to tell the difference.

petegz28
12-31-2007, 04:59 PM
I tell you now Croyle has the best arm of any Chief QB...scrambles around better than anyone other than Gannon maybe, is younger and when compared to Huard he actually hits guys in the hands.

How many passes got dropped yesterday when he hit guys right ont he money?

He just needs to bulk up and stay healthy and he will be a good QB.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 05:00 PM
You know how many young QB's with strong arms and decent mobility flame out? It takes tons more than that....you basically just described Kyle Boller.

el borracho
12-31-2007, 05:00 PM
I wish I knew what to think about Croyle at this point- unfortunately, he played less than half the season and our Oline made it impossible to learn much of anything about the guy.

Mr. Laz
12-31-2007, 05:00 PM
he actually hits guys in the hands..
no he doesn't ...... not yet anyway


right now Huard is more accurate with the short/medium throws

petegz28
12-31-2007, 05:01 PM
You know how many young QB's with strong arms and decent mobility flame out? It takes tons more than that....you basically just described Kyle Boller.


Has Croyle received the same treatment as Boller? No. See that is the problem with this team. Most teams pick their starter and give him the practice time.

We said no to that and made the kid feel like any mistake he made would cost him.


That is NOT how you develop a QB.

Pablo
12-31-2007, 05:01 PM
I know I use that comparison due to my friend. He was watching the game yesterday and said if they switched jerseys you'd never be able to tell the difference.Croyle is allowed to look like sh*t at times, he's started less than half of a season.

petegz28
12-31-2007, 05:01 PM
no he doesn't ...... not yet anyway


right now Huard is more accurate with the short/medium throws


BS! Huard throws passes 12 feet in the air. Come on Laz I know it's new year's eve buddy but I think you started early!

Mr. Laz
12-31-2007, 05:03 PM
BS! Huard throws passes 12 feet in the air. Come on Laz I know it's new year's eve buddy but I think you started early!

dude ..... Croyle has struggle with his accuracy and hasn't shown much touch, if any.


i liked Croyle coming out of college but his accuracy has stunk for the most part as a Chief.

petegz28
12-31-2007, 05:05 PM
dude ..... Croyle has struggle with his accuracy and hasn't shown much touch, if any.


i liked Croyle coming out of college but his accuracy has stunk for the most part as a Chief.


I seem to remember Bronco receivers crying about how hard Elway threw the ball. :hmmm:

Mecca
12-31-2007, 05:06 PM
Croyle threw a rocket at a guy standing right next to him, it was so bad the ref called it intentional grounding..

And we thought the ref making the comment about Huards pass not being grounding because he wasn't under pressure was bad...

petegz28
12-31-2007, 05:07 PM
Croyle threw a rocket at a guy standing right next to him, it was so bad the ref called it intentional grounding..

And we thought the ref making the comment about Huards pass not being grounding because he wasn't under pressure was bad...


1 time.


Meanwhile Huard can't even throw a screen pass.


You guys crack me up

corandval
12-31-2007, 05:07 PM
Croyle and Huard both struggled with accuracy. I was surprised Tony G. made it through in one piece.

Mr. Laz
12-31-2007, 05:07 PM
I seem to remember Bronco receivers crying about how hard Elway threw the ball. :hmmm:
don't change the subject now ....


the dropped balls might be because our receivers aren't used to a guy with a decent arm but i'm talking about Croyle overthrowing, underthrowing and just generally missing his receivers.

he's done it all season


but he's young,nervous and probably trying to hard (i hope)

Mecca
12-31-2007, 05:09 PM
The worst thing to me is if Croyle had finished the Detroit game we'd have lost 40-3, Huard came in and we nearly won...

That was really really sad.

mlyonsd
12-31-2007, 05:12 PM
Croyle was so unimpressive yesterday I can't imagine what they saw in him as a 3rd round pick.

shaneo69
12-31-2007, 05:13 PM
I feel like a Bills fan discussing JP Losman, one of my very best friends has been laughing at me for 2 years now going, HAHA you got JP Losman Jr...

Damn bad omens now our board has turned into the Bills board with the constant QB threads where some people will always think he is the guy.

One major difference. The QB position requires the skill of leadership. From what I've read, many people think Losman is a jerk. On the other hand, everything I've read about Croyle makes it sound like he is a leader and a likable guy, and teammates are willing to follow him.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 05:17 PM
One major difference. The QB position requires the skill of leadership. From what I've read, many people think Losman is a jerk. On the other hand, everything I've read about Croyle makes it sound like he is a leader and a likable guy, and teammates are willing to follow him.

Other than Lee Evans who every week says Losman is his QB and should be the guy or something to that extent.

Mr. Flopnuts
12-31-2007, 05:21 PM
I wish I knew what to think about Croyle at this point- unfortunately, he played less than half the season and our Oline made it impossible to learn much of anything about the guy.


He could've started the whole year. It wouldn't have shown us any different.

Fruit Ninja
12-31-2007, 05:22 PM
I feel like a Bills fan discussing JP Losman, one of my very best friends has been laughing at me for 2 years now going, HAHA you got JP Losman Jr...

Damn bad omens now our board has turned into the Bills board with the constant QB threads where some people will always think he is the guy.
NOt saying he is the guy, but its hard to evaluate anything from this horrible Oline. 1 thing that does worry me is him being injury prone. I dont know what QB the Chiefs can take in the draft. My guy Colt throws to much for Herm. I know his ass wont stand for that style of offense. There is no way a Herm team ever see's anything close to 30 points a game.

You know Herm, you win by running the ball, yet all 4 elite teams are passing based. lol

Mecca
12-31-2007, 05:30 PM
He could've started the whole year. It wouldn't have shown us any different.


He could have started this entire year, projecting out to probably 2-14 with the stats out and missing 5-6 games and people would still think he is "the guy".

Mr. Flopnuts
12-31-2007, 05:32 PM
He could have started this entire year, projecting out to probably 2-14 with the stats out and missing 5-6 games and people would still think he is "the guy".



Hope springs eternal. I'm not buying. Not with Croyle. I did until he started. I was as optimistic as anyone. Not anymore. He showed me all I needed to see.

Mr. Flopnuts
12-31-2007, 05:33 PM
I'd love to get a guy like Matt Ryan, or Woodson even. Woodson will need some serious work, and IMO has the highest probability of being a bust. That's the risk you run though when it comes to signing ANYONE. Established or not.

shaneo69
12-31-2007, 05:34 PM
The good thing is that if we give Brodie the job next year and he gets hurt, Thigpen should be ready to get his chance instead of having to go back to Hutard.

Baby Lee
12-31-2007, 05:37 PM
Several disliked Green all the way through
his time as a Chief
Croyle made better decisions this year than Green did in his first season.
Get him a Roaf Jr, and see if he develops similarly.

shaneo69
12-31-2007, 05:37 PM
I'd love to get a guy like Matt Ryan, or Woodson even. Woodson will need some serious work, and IMO has the highest probability of being a bust. That's the risk you run though when it comes to signing ANYONE. Established or not.

Yeah, when it comes to a top-5 draft pick, might as well flip a coin on a QB...

Mr. Flopnuts
12-31-2007, 05:37 PM
The good thing is that if we give Brodie the job next year and he gets hurt, Thigpen should be ready to get his chance instead of having to go back to Hutard.



Awesome. I've got a cousin that has a helluvan arm. Maybe he can be the 3rd stringer.

Mr. Flopnuts
12-31-2007, 05:38 PM
Yeah, when it comes to a top-5 draft pick, might as well flip a coin on a QB...


LMAO They're all coin flips regardless of position. FTR I wouldn't draft Woodson with a top 5 pick. Ryan? Depends on who else is sitting there.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 05:41 PM
Let's draft 15 QB's on the 2nd day and hope we got one of the miracles like Tom Brady that's the answer!

Micjones
12-31-2007, 05:43 PM
Huard wasn't afforded any of these excuses...

I'm sorry, but Croyle hasn't improved enough to remain the starter in 2008.

He IS NOT a rookie...
And he started 9 games...

He was no better yesterday than he was in the pre-season.

Huard was effective with the same weapons available to Croyle. That should put an end to all of the "Offensive Line" excuses.

shaneo69
12-31-2007, 05:44 PM
Let's draft 15 QB's on the 2nd day and hope we got one of the miracles like Tom Brady that's the answer!

You could probably take Booty or Henne in the later rounds and end up with a better QB than Ryan, Woodson, or Brohm, based on previous history.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 05:45 PM
Booty and Henne will go in the first 3 rounds, they both have good NFL tools regardless of production. I don't like Booty at all from watching him for the past 2 years but both those guys are going on the first day....

shaneo69
12-31-2007, 05:46 PM
Huard wasn't afforded any of these excuses...

I'm sorry, but Croyle hasn't improved enough to remain the starter in 2008.

He IS NOT a rookie...
And he started 9 games...

He was no better yesterday than he was in the pre-season.

Huard was effective with the same weapons available to Croyle. That should put an end to all of the "Offensive Line" excuses.

Here comes the old "preseason games count" genious.

Give Croyle 12 years in the league like Huard, and I'm pretty sure he would perform better than Huard did.

WestCoastReggie
12-31-2007, 05:56 PM
5 Reasons why Brodie Croyle should start next year (and we don't need to draft a QB with our first pick):

1. Herm puts training wheels on his QBs due to his conservative nature, not allowing them to grow or play to their full potential.
2. Second year OC, Solari, not proving worthy of his position thus far
3. Depleted offensive line due to injuries and retirement
4. Depleted running game due to injuries, retirement, and trades
5. No real fullback

Mecca
12-31-2007, 05:57 PM
I guarantee if we go into next year with Croyle and Johnson at QB and RB we should be thinking about how many times they'll both be on the field together instead of the amount of games we win.

Calcountry
12-31-2007, 06:09 PM
Croyle made better decisions this year than Green did in his first season.
Get him a Roaf Jr, and see if he develops similarly.lol, I will have a Roaf Jr. Supersized, with a hot apple pie on the side.

Demonpenz
12-31-2007, 06:13 PM
plug needs to be pulled on the croyle experiment

Easy 6
12-31-2007, 06:17 PM
Pete, this debate is just like DC, neither side is going to budge the other 1 iota.

The only thing thats gonna settle it, is seeing what Brodie does next year.

To paraphrase Charles Barkley..."We COULD be wrong, But We DOUBT It".

WestCoastReggie
12-31-2007, 06:24 PM
Peyton Manning

Year: 1998
Games Started 16
TD 26
INT 28
Rating 71.2
Record 3-13


Brodie Croyle

Year: 2007
Games Started 6
TD 6
INT 6
Rating 69.9
Record 0-6

Manning was the starter from the beginning. Brodie had to deal with sharing snaps with Damon and Herm's training wheels. Brodie will start next year.

Easy 6
12-31-2007, 06:29 PM
Peyton Manning

Year: 1998
Games Started 16
TD 26
INT 28
Rating 71.2
Record 3-13


Brodie Croyle

Year: 2007
Games Started 6
TD 6
INT 6
Rating 69.9
Record 0-6

Manning was the starter from the beginning. Brodie had to deal with sharing snaps with Damon and Herm's training wheels. Brodie will start next year.

I like your style Reggie...REP.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 06:34 PM
I'm sure Croyle is the next Peyton ****in Manning the guy who is only a first ballot HOFer likely to hold every QB record known to man.

WestCoastReggie
12-31-2007, 06:35 PM
I like your style Reggie...REP.

I don't know how people evaluate Croyle at this point. We have NO RUNNING GAME. No QB would look good.

WestCoastReggie
12-31-2007, 06:36 PM
I'm sure Croyle is the next Peyton ****in Manning the guy who is only a first ballot HOFer likely to hold every QB record known to man.

Peyton Manning had a WORSE record his first year. Stats do not lie.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 06:42 PM
He did? Croyle didn't win a game it doesn't get worse than that....


That "he doesn't have this, he doesn't have that" stuff is funny. When you say that, that means you'd still be starting him 4 years later going "now we need this guy we didn't give him enough guys"

Truth be told if he is "the guy" he's what makes it go, you don't need anyone else to make him better. Brady makes the Pats, Manning makes the Colts. Romo made the Cowboys this year, he's the difference from last year to this...

craneref
12-31-2007, 07:47 PM
For those who care, Elway, Aiman, Manning and Croyle first year stats. I have always said he deserves more than a partial year to make a decision. Overall I think Croyle matches up fairly nicely. The great Elway only threw one more TD, over twice as many INT and had a much lower completion percentage. I wonder why the Donks didn't draft another "Franchise QB" the next year? GO CHIEFS!

Elway

Year G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds
1983 11 10 123 259 47.5 1663

TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/G Rate
7 2.7 14 5.4 49 151.2 54.9

Aikman

Year G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds
1989 11 11 155 293 52.9 1749

TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/G Rate
9 3.1 18 6.1 75 159.0 55.7

Manning

Year G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds
1998 16 16 326 575 56.7 3739

TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/G Rate
26 4.5 28 4.9 78 233.7 71.2


Croyle

Year G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds
2007 10 127 224 56.7 1227

TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/G Rate
6 2.7 6 2.7 122.7 69.9

Mecca
12-31-2007, 07:50 PM
The league is also far different now than it was when Elway was being broken in.....

Rules changes favor big time passing offense, the league is no longer run the ball and play defense. Now it's a points heavy pass first league. All the rules favor passing offense.

craneref
12-31-2007, 07:53 PM
The league is also far different now than it was when Elway was being broken in.....

Rules changes favor big time passing offense, the league is no longer run the ball and play defense. Now it's a points heavy pass first league. All the rules favor passing offense.

Elway still threw the ball 35 more times and completed 4 passes less. I think that is a pretty good comparison. Plus Elway was the number one pick overall, Croyle wasn't!!

Mecca
12-31-2007, 07:58 PM
Has Croyle also already missed more games than Elway too?

craneref
12-31-2007, 08:03 PM
Has Croyle also already missed more games than Elway too?

Croyle missed one game, I can't remember if Elway missed any games or not. However, growing up in Colorado during that time, I remember all my Donk friends wanted to get rid of him, said he sucked, would never be any good, over rated and such. I am saying that you can't judge a QB on his first year as a starter, unless his name is Marion!! Usally when a rookie rookie or second yea player is starting at QB, the team overall is not that good, so there is only so much they can do. I am not ready to give up on Croyle yet. I am willing to give him another year before we throw away ANOTHER year on trying to develop a QB.

craneref
12-31-2007, 08:05 PM
Has Croyle also already missed more games than Elway too?

And the comparison has Elway starting 10 games and Croyle starting 10 games.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 08:07 PM
This is just so comical, we're comparing this guy to all time greats, get ready for major disappointment.

craneref
12-31-2007, 08:11 PM
This is just so comical, we're comparing this guy to all time greats, get ready for major disappointment.

I am just saying that even the Great QB's suffer their first year. I am not saying that Croyle will be that great, but I think he deserves a chance. I am sure you could have found NO ONE in the Patriots fan base was excited when Bledsoe got hurt and Brady had to come on. You don't know what you have until you give them a chance. I think it is comical that everyone seems to think that the great QB's all came out and were all prow their first year, won the SB and were name the MVP. The comparison was to show that at this point in Croyle's career he is performing better or comparable to three of the great QB's of the NFL. I say that gives him the opportunity next year and some support from the fans.

B_Ambuehl
12-31-2007, 08:24 PM
I dont see how anyone could see much of anything in Croyle. He makes Damon Huard look like a top tier NFL quarterback. He has bad mechanics (he fades back on all his throws), poor awareness, he always throws the ball late, and he's very inaccurate. ALL he can do is chunk the ball down the field. Kyle Boller can throw the ball 60 yards from one knee and we all know how great he turned out to be. His accuracy on deep throws (the one thing he's supposed to be good at) has been terrible. One thing I remember before we even drafted him is when he got introduced for the Sr. Bowl he ran to the wrong sideline. I think that gives a pretty good picture of his mental makeup.

He played all preseason and got 6 regular season starts but doesn't look any better now than he did his first game of preseason. Talentwise he's about as good as the 3rd string quarterback on most teams.

Brody has his moment in the sun. He'll be a hero in Alabama for the rest of his life. That's something to be proud of. But he's never gonna be anything more then a backup in the NFL. Rest assured Carl knows that.

TEX
12-31-2007, 10:31 PM
Brodie Croyle is not the answer at QB. He's a 3rd round pick. The Chiefs owe him nothing. They need to stop kidding themselves that he's something and get on with finding a real QB.

Coach
12-31-2007, 10:32 PM
This is just so comical, we're comparing this guy to all time greats, get ready for major disappointment.

Be honest here. Do you think Brett Favre would do well behind this line? Peyton Manning?

Come on, let's be serious. No QB will succeed under this o-line, not to mention that Herm's philosophy of coaching.

Anybody with a half of a brain would know this, or at least I'd hope so. I just can't figure out why a smart guy like you, haven't quite grasp that, yet.

TEX
12-31-2007, 10:36 PM
He did? Croyle didn't win a game it doesn't get worse than that....


That "he doesn't have this, he doesn't have that" stuff is funny. When you say that, that means you'd still be starting him 4 years later going "now we need this guy we didn't give him enough guys"

Truth be told if he is "the guy" he's what makes it go, you don't need anyone else to make him better. Brady makes the Pats, Manning makes the Colts. Romo made the Cowboys this year, he's the difference from last year to this...

Yep. Brodie Croyle = David Carr in the sense that he ALWAYS needed something more. The deal is, Carr is better than Croyle and he sucks.

Coach
12-31-2007, 10:41 PM
He did? Croyle didn't win a game it doesn't get worse than that....


That "he doesn't have this, he doesn't have that" stuff is funny. When you say that, that means you'd still be starting him 4 years later going "now we need this guy we didn't give him enough guys"

Truth be told if he is "the guy" he's what makes it go, you don't need anyone else to make him better. Brady makes the Pats, Manning makes the Colts. Romo made the Cowboys this year, he's the difference from last year to this...

Troy Aikman didn't win a game in 1989. He was 0-11. Had to wait for a whole year to get his first win in 1990.

Seriously, this Croyle bashing that you're doing is getting old. Enough is enough, Mecca. No QB in this league will perform well behind this sorry-assed offensive line.

Peyton Manning wouldn't be standing up straight behind this line. Tommy Boy Brady wouldn't be having a MVP like season with this line.

It's reality. So get the hell over it already.

Mecca
12-31-2007, 11:19 PM
Actually they'd do better because they are smart enough to know when to get rid of the ball, and when to check plays into ones that will work...

Is the Chiefs line good, no, but some of you act like this is the worst team in history. We aren't the just blown up 1-15 Cowboys. Or the #1 pick Colts which were pretty sorry, even in the year people say Manning wasn't good he still threw 26 TD's. He showed signs and promise, you need to see that with the mistakes..

What are we seeing? Croyle makes a lot of mistakes..I don't see any kind of "spark", I actually saw a team get a spark when Huard came in which was really damn sad.

That's my biggest problem with Croyle I can accept mistakes that's not my problem, I don't see the signs of greatness. I don't see the "it" factor, all I see is a guy with a strong arm with no intangibles that has a serious tendency to get hurt, that looks like a career backup.

Count Zarth
12-31-2007, 11:22 PM
Hey Mecca:

DO YOU LIKE ANY YOUNG PLAYER ON THE CHIEFS?

Another question:

DO YOU LIKE ANY OLDER PLAYER ON THE CHIEFS?

Micjones
12-31-2007, 11:28 PM
Here comes the old "preseason games count" genious.

You're right. They play pre-season games so they can break in new concession stand employees.

The pre-season is used to evaluate player performance.
Why wouldn't they count?

Huard wasn't an 11-year starter.
He's been a career back-up who hasn't logged much playing time himself.

Micjones
12-31-2007, 11:30 PM
Troy Aikman didn't win a game in 1989. He was 0-11. Had to wait for a whole year to get his first win in 1990.

Couple things...
1. Troy Aikman was a Rookie in '89. Croyle IS NOT.
2. Troy Aikman was a First Round draft pick.

KCJohnny
12-31-2007, 11:33 PM
You're right. They play pre-season games so they can break in new concession stand employees.

The pre-season is used to evaluate player performance.
Why wouldn't they count?

Huard wasn't an 11-year starter.
He's been a career back-up who hasn't logged much playing time himself.

Uh, yeah, but two of the three QBs he backed up are HoFers Marino and Brady. The other one is Trent Green.


ADJUST FIRE.

Micjones
12-31-2007, 11:36 PM
Uh, yeah, but two of the three QBs he backed up are HoFers Marino and Brady. The other one is Trent Green.


ADJUST FIRE.

God knows playing behind such great QB's constitutes success of your own...
:rolleyes:

ChiefsCountry
01-01-2008, 12:13 AM
Cowboys didnt think much of Aikman. They drafted Steve Walsh as well.