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View Full Version : New Offensive Coordinator: What effect on QB Decisions?


KCJohnny
12-31-2007, 07:01 PM
Another variable no one is talking about is the offensive system next year. Some believe Solari is history. What if the new OC comes in here and wants to run a variation of the Left Coast Offense? Can Croyle run the LCO? That makes acquiring a tested LCO QB like McNabb or Chad all the more attractive to the FO.

In my mind, Croyle's greatest weakness is his inability to see the deep receivers. His YPA average is awful - more than a yard less than Huard's whom most people on this forum (ignorantly) castigate as a checkdown QB.

If we go to the LCO in '08 then a short-range semi-mobile QB like Croyle may succeed. If we stay with the vertical attack-the-seams Coryell system, I'd rather have a crusty old Huard who can throw the 40 yd attempt a few times than a QB getting about 5.7 yards per attempt.

Q: What effect does the new Offensive Coordinator and his new system have on the actions taken by the Chiefs' FO in regards to the QB position?

Happy New Year,
KCJ
:arrow:

(Yes this is a repost but I think it deserves its own thread) ;)

BigVE
12-31-2007, 07:01 PM
Either way I vote McNabb.

Hologide
12-31-2007, 07:22 PM
I'd take McNabb. From what I've seen this year, Brodie is nothing more thank a servicable 3rd round Qb - exactly what you expect from a 3rd round pick. Where as under a LCO system, McNabb could easily lead to play off wins.

But we'll see - I dont really care what the QB situation next season is, nor am I too interested in the OC position. All I want is an O-line that wont get the QB killed....

TinyEvel
12-31-2007, 07:31 PM
Herm is not a LCO HC IMO.

Douche Baggins
12-31-2007, 07:37 PM
You are reading too much into YPA, Johnny. It has everything to do with the neutered gameplans, not Croyle's inability to look downfield.

TinyEvel
12-31-2007, 07:40 PM
You are reading too much into YPA, Johnny. It has everything to do with the neutered gameplans, not Croyle's inability to look downfield.

I agree, How many games did you hear announcers say "it's like the opposing defense KNOWS what play the Chiefs are going to run before the snap"

I seriously heard that like half the time.

Tribal Warfare
12-31-2007, 07:41 PM
If the QB is allowed to audible then it's all gravy

cdcox
12-31-2007, 07:53 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The offense we are running is extremely unfriendly to a young QB. Too many predictable short passes has defenders jumping routes and jamming passing lanes. It requires the QB to make better reads and be more accurate than a more open offense. The recievers hardly ever run free because too often they are standing still and facing the QB. The drives have to be sustained for 15 or more plays in order to score. That is 15 chances for a young QB to make a drive-killing mistake.

I really don't trust Herm with an expensive first round QB. If he wants to play around trying to develop a QB, let him work with Croyle. If he wants to get a real OC and QB guru and then leave them alone (he is incapable of doing this) then I might consider letting him draft a qb in the first round.

I can't wait until he is gone.

KCJohnny
12-31-2007, 09:35 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The offense we are running is extremely unfriendly to a young QB. Too many predictable short passes has defenders jumping routes and jamming passing lanes. It requires the QB to make better reads and be more accurate than a more open offense. The recievers hardly ever run free because too often they are standing still and facing the QB. The drives have to be sustained for 15 or more plays in order to score. That is 15 chances for a young QB to make a drive-killing mistake.

I really don't trust Herm with an expensive first round QB. If he wants to play around trying to develop a QB, let him work with Croyle. If he wants to get a real OC and QB guru and then leave them alone (he is incapable of doing this) then I might consider letting him draft a qb in the first round.

I can't wait until he is gone.
Excellent observations, cdcox. My only retort is that Huard was in the top 5 in the NFL in 20+ yd completions when he was starting up til 4-3. Was it the system or the QB?

I agree that Herm truncated the playbook removing many 7-step drops (the longer routes that take more time to develop) which hosed Brodie some. But I come back to Huard's throwing for 300 yards in 2.5 quarters at Detroit. What about that?

I think what happened is this:

1. Elvis Grbac piloted a modified LCO to the #8 offense in the NFL in 2000 with virtually no rushing attack.

2. DV came in preaching Ramifization/Martzyball and tried forcing a round peg into a square hole in 2001. Martzyball is based on a pretty faithful version of the Air-Coryell classical pass-to-set-up-the-run downfield vertical game.

3. DV/AS adjusted the Chiefs 2002 O to work with the strengths Martzyball ignores (TE/FB/power sweeps) and so implemented a modified Coryell system that featured Priest Holmes and Tony Gonzalez.

4. Solari inherited the modified Coryell O and was told to dumb it down to feature LJ - something the system was not designed to do (establish a north/south runner between the tackles).

5. When Croyle took over, the play book was truncated even further to eradicate the 7-step drops and modify the shotgun formation plays to quick-hit underneath receivers.

In conclusion, the system Croyle is running is a limited down version of a dumbed down version of the Coryell O.

I see a new offensive coordinator coming in with a new system and I think that more than any other single factor will determine the situation at QB.

This is an easy fix if Carl can hire Dave Shula as OC who coached Croyle at Alabama. That is a stretch, but it makes sense to me.

Happy New Year,
KCJ
:arrow:

cdcox
12-31-2007, 09:41 PM
I was never enthusiastic about Huard being on the field, regardless of performance. He was too old and had too little talent to be a viable solution. I'd never invest myself in a player that had so little future. He was never more than a spot starter for me. Just the way I see it.

Happy New Year to you, KCJ.

Douche Baggins
12-31-2007, 09:45 PM
I
If he wants to play around trying to develop a QB, let him work with Croyle.

I have a feeling Croyle will crash and burn, thereby sealing Herm's ultimate fate.

cdcox
12-31-2007, 09:46 PM
I have a feeling Croyle will crash and burn, thereby sealing Herm's ultimate fate.

So we end up burning a 4th to get Herm and a third to get rid of him. SOLD!

Douche Baggins
12-31-2007, 09:47 PM
So we end up burning a 4th to get Herm and a third to get rid of him. SOLD!

Maybe we can find some other hapless team to pawn him off for a pick!

FAX
12-31-2007, 09:49 PM
I have a feeling Croyle will crash and burn, thereby sealing Herm's ultimate fate.

If that happens, I'll go to my grave a Croylist.

FAX

Douche Baggins
12-31-2007, 09:51 PM
Who wants to bet the first play next year is a quick sideline pass to Bowe? Bowe will break a tackle and gain 8 yards and Herm will proudly say after the game "I called that!"

KCJohnny
12-31-2007, 10:00 PM
I was never enthusiastic about Huard being on the field, regardless of performance. He was too old and had too little talent to be a viable solution. I'd never invest myself in a player that had so little future. He was never more than a spot starter for me. Just the way I see it.

Happy New Year to you, KCJ.

Huard's starting was based on the 2007 Chiefs being viable contenders for a much depleted AFC Worst crown (at least until week 8). Til then, Huard was doing OK with his downfield game.

I think Herm's posture was correct: while we were in contention for the playoffs, play the guys that give you the best chance to win (Huard). After the bubble bursts, its all just an extended preseason.

Extra Point
12-31-2007, 10:26 PM
If the O-Line can't block and the QB can't roll, you get 4-12. A simple play to run (that we can't defend) is the bootleg pass to the WR on the inside slant or the slot on the in-and-out, with the QB rolling to his throwing side. Rushing off-tackle is a simple play, too. You have to have an offense and QB that work in a read-and-rush system.

Herm is a control freak, and keeps his hand in the pot, spoiling the stew.

KCJohnny
12-31-2007, 11:18 PM
Yes, but a new OC can take the team in a completely new direction (like the Arena Football League - snicker snicker)....

KCJohnny
01-01-2008, 08:26 PM
Repost for discussion.

Excellent observations, cdcox. My only retort is that Huard was in the top 5 in the NFL in 20+ yd completions when he was starting up til 4-3. Was it the system or the QB?

I agree that Herm truncated the playbook removing many 7-step drops (the longer routes that take more time to develop) which hosed Brodie some. But I come back to Huard's throwing for 300 yards in 2.5 quarters at Detroit. What about that?

I think what happened is this:

1. Elvis Grbac piloted a modified LCO to the #8 offense in the NFL in 2000 with virtually no rushing attack.

2. DV came in preaching Ramifization/Martzyball and tried forcing a round peg into a square hole in 2001. Martzyball is based on a pretty faithful version of the Air-Coryell classical pass-to-set-up-the-run downfield vertical game.

3. DV/AS adjusted the Chiefs 2002 O to work with the strengths Martzyball ignores (TE/FB/power sweeps) and so implemented a modified Coryell system that featured Priest Holmes and Tony Gonzalez.

4. Solari inherited the modified Coryell O and was told to dumb it down to feature LJ - something the system was not designed to do (establish a north/south runner between the tackles).

5. When Croyle took over, the play book was truncated even further to eradicate the 7-step drops and modify the shotgun formation plays to quick-hit underneath receivers.

In conclusion, the system Croyle is running is a limited down version of a dumbed down version of the Coryell O.

I see a new offensive coordinator coming in with a new system and I think that more than any other single factor will determine the situation at QB.

This is an easy fix if Carl can hire Dave Shula as OC who coached Croyle at Alabama. That is a stretch, but it makes sense to me.

Happy New Year,
KCJ
:arrow: