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doomy3
01-02-2008, 09:47 AM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1903

Lions Offense-TM- Lions Jan. 2 - 11:40 am et

Lions fired offensive coordinator Mike Martz.

Line coach Jim Cotello was promoted to coordinator and receivers coach Kibby Brown will be named assistant head coach/offense. Martz's son, Tim, was fired from his position of offensive assistant. Martz has already been linked to the soon to be vacant offensive coordinator job in San Francisco and will likely go on multiple interviews in the coming weeks.

KCChiefsFan88
01-02-2008, 09:50 AM
If Mike Martz ends up in KC I will love life again

Mr. Laz
01-02-2008, 09:50 AM
maybe we can bring in Martz for the Chiefs....


one game of "Martz's offense" would cause Herm to have a coronary and then we can really clean house and start fresh :)

Chief Chief
01-02-2008, 09:50 AM
See? We're not the only team in the NFL with a GM who has a God complex.

kepp
01-02-2008, 09:53 AM
"Ebony and Ivory, go together in perfect..."

http://limelight-203.static.dailymotion.com/dyn/preview/160x120/2360203.jpg

Joe Seahawk
01-02-2008, 09:55 AM
Sort of suprising..

NY CHIEF
01-02-2008, 10:29 AM
Never happen !! the chiefs would score too many points ROFL

dallaschiefsfan
01-02-2008, 10:44 AM
Not happening. Just like Cam ain't happening. The lions have promoted their line coach? Sounds familiar...

Sure-Oz
01-02-2008, 10:45 AM
Marz probably will go to SF, we'll have some scrub as our OC

HemiEd
01-02-2008, 10:53 AM
If Mike Martz ends up in KC I will love life again

Not much chance of that happening with Herm's opinion of scoring.

ChiTown
01-02-2008, 10:54 AM
Martz = Arena Ball = Not a chance for the Chiefs/Herm

doomy3
01-02-2008, 10:55 AM
Marz probably will go to SF, we'll have some scrub as our OC


And SF will continue to suck

OnTheWarpath58
01-02-2008, 12:07 PM
Martz sounds like a great choice.

:rolleyes:


From Run, Run, Pass, Punt

to

Pass, Pass, Pass, Punt.




Pass.

Frankie
01-02-2008, 12:14 PM
Herm just fired the coaches who were the last remnants of the old DV system. Wants a new system. Martz ain't it.

Frankie
01-02-2008, 12:15 PM
Herm just fired the coaches who were the last remnants of the old DV system. Wants a new system. Martz ain't it.
Unfortunately, neither is Cam Cameron. :banghead:

Pablo
01-02-2008, 12:21 PM
Sure, seeing as how we've got a great line, a corps of proven, talented recievers and a great QB. Martz will work out just fine. Not.

Not to mention we're paying LJ $45 million over the next 5 years, I'd imagine we're gonna run the ball a whole lot.

OnTheWarpath58
01-02-2008, 12:21 PM
I'm wondering why anyone would think Martz would be a good idea for ANY team, much less KC.

He abandons the running game.

He refuses to keep players inside to help with protection, which in turn gets the QB killed.

He'd be DEATH to a young QB's confidence, whether it be Croyle, Ryan or Brohm.

We should be looking for the anti-Martz. Someone who will benefit a young QB by protecting him from hits, and utilizing a strong running game to keep the defense off balance.

Passing the ball 80% of the time is NOT the answer.

Rain Man
01-02-2008, 12:27 PM
Ha, ha. Millen's an idiot. He's throwing his offensive coordinator under the bus to save his own sorry hide, when everyone on earth knows he can't get the job done.

Oh, wow. I just had a huge deja vu sensation right now.

FD
01-02-2008, 12:31 PM
Probably a mistake by Detroit. Then again, Martz did entirely forget to run the ball at least a few times this year.

I've been trying to think of a team that matches up well with Martz's strengths and I think I know who should hire him.....St Louis

siberian khatru
01-02-2008, 12:31 PM
I'm wondering why anyone would think Martz would be a good idea for ANY team, much less KC.

He abandons the running game.

He refuses to keep players inside to help with protection, which in turn gets the QB killed.

He'd be DEATH to a young QB's confidence, whether it be Croyle, Ryan or Brohm.

We should be looking for the anti-Martz. Someone who will benefit a young QB by protecting him from hits, and utilizing a strong running game to keep the defense off balance.

Passing the ball 80% of the time is NOT the answer.

AMEN

MahiMike
01-02-2008, 01:52 PM
Martz = Arena Ball = Not a chance for the Chiefs/Herm

aww, you beat me to it...

OnTheWarpath58
01-02-2008, 01:55 PM
I'm wondering why anyone would think Martz would be a good idea for ANY team, much less KC.

He abandons the running game.

He refuses to keep players inside to help with protection, which in turn gets the QB killed.

He'd be DEATH to a young QB's confidence, whether it be Croyle, Ryan or Brohm.

We should be looking for the anti-Martz. Someone who will benefit a young QB by protecting him from hits, and utilizing a strong running game to keep the defense off balance.

Passing the ball 80% of the time is NOT the answer.


Still waiting.


C'mon, we've had to listen to you guys beg for Martz to come here, then he's fired, and NOW you're quiet on the subject.

Time to be heard, Martz lovers.

Pablo
01-02-2008, 02:04 PM
Still waiting.


C'mon, we've had to listen to you guys beg for Martz to come here, then he's fired, and NOW you're quiet on the subject.

Time to be heard, Martz lovers.
Wait until chiefsfan1963 logs in. I'm sure he'd have a very valid argument for Mike Martz, anyone that associated with DV is pure gold.

KCChiefsFan88
01-02-2008, 02:48 PM
I'm wondering why anyone would think Martz would be a good idea for ANY team, much less KC.

What Martz accomplished with the Lambs, as the architect of the "Greatest Show on Turf", one of the greatest offenses ever can't be overlooked. Does any potential offensive coordinator that the Chiefs might look at (Mike Shula, Paul Can't Hackett, Price, Bates) have the distinction as being the architect of one of the greatest offenses in NFL history? I'd say no


He abandons the running game.

Running the ball is completely overrated in the NFL today... see the New England Patriots. And while the knock on Martz is he ignores the run, Marshall Faulk (a future Hall of Famer) and Steven Jackson flourished in his system of supposedly completely ignoring the run.

He refuses to keep players inside to help with protection, which in turn gets the QB killed.

This isn't a problem if you have a good offensive line, especially at both tackle positions. This didn't become an issue with the Lambs until they let Fred Miller walk and were forced to replace him (which they never successfully did).

He'd be DEATH to a young QB's confidence, whether it be Croyle, Ryan or Brohm.

Funny he didn't seem to kill Trent Green's confidence (who he developed in Washington and then with the Lambs), or Kurt Warner's confidence (another Martz product), or Marc Bulger's confidence (another Martz product). Martz has more success developing young QBs during the past 10 years or so than the Chiefs have in 30+ years as a franchise.

We should be looking for the anti-Martz. Someone who will benefit a young QB by protecting him from hits, and utilizing a strong running game to keep the defense off balance.

You mean by playing Herm, ultra-conservative ball? Gee that has really worked well in protecting the QB (3 starting QBs knocked out due to injury in two seasons of Herm ball and Herm getting QB's killed goes back to his days with the Jets as well).

Passing the ball 80% of the time is NOT the answer.

The New England Patriots would disagree with you. They have utilized the Martz/pass-oriented approach all season, to the tune of 16-0 and the highest scoring offense in NFL history. Earlier this month they destroyed Pittsburgh and did so by running the ball NINE... NINE times the entire game.

KCChiefsFan88
01-02-2008, 03:05 PM
Probably a mistake by Detroit. Then again, Martz did entirely forget to run the ball at least a few times this year.


No point in trying to run when you are forced to go with the likes of Kevin "Fragile as Glass" Jones and Donks reject Tatum Bell

OnTheWarpath58
01-02-2008, 03:06 PM
What Martz accomplished with the Lambs, as the architect of the "Greatest Show on Turf", one of the greatest offenses ever can't be overlooked. Does any potential offensive coordinator that the Chiefs might look at (Mike Shula, Paul Can't Hackett, Price, Bates) have the distinction as being the architect of one of the greatest offenses in NFL history? I'd say no

Yeah, it can be overlooked, just like people overlook Brian Billick as an offensive genius now. Amazing what happens when:

a) You don't have the players to run the system. (Baltimore hasn't and the Chiefs don't)

b) The rest of the league has caught up to you.


Running the ball is completely overrated in the NFL today... see the New England Patriots. And while the knock on Martz is he ignores the run, Marshall Faulk (a future Hall of Famer) and Steven Jackson flourished in his system of supposedly completely ignoring the run.

The flourished because they are both EXCELLENT at catching the ball out of the backfield, or lining up outside to create mismatches. We have no such back.


This isn't a problem if you have a good offensive line, especially at both tackle positions. This didn't become an issue with the Lambs until they let Fred Miller walk and were forced to replace him (which they never successfully did).

Again, which we don't have. And trust me, I live in STL and have watched the Rams since day one here. They've had protection issues on some level from the beginning of the Martz era. Yet Martz is an egomaniac, and while knowing he had protection issues, continued to go empty backfield on a regular basis, getting the QB hammered. Just because the QB isn't getting sacked, doesn't mean he's not getting hit.



Funny he didn't seem to kill Trent Green's confidence (who he developed in Washington and then with the Lambs), or Kurt Warner's confidence (another Martz product), or Marc Bulger's confidence (another Martz product). Martz has more success developing young QBs during the past 10 years or so than the Chiefs have in 30+ years as a franchise.

How do you develop 30 year old QB's?

Bulger is the only one that you can say he "developed" and Marc has made it perfectly clear on numerous occasions in interviews and comment here that he's lucky Martz didn't kill him. Beside his gameday antics, the biggest reason Martz was let go in STL is that the brass realized that their Franchise Qb wouldn't last to his 30's at the rate things were going.



You mean by playing Herm, ultra-conservative ball? Gee that has really worked well in protecting the QB (3 starting QBs knocked out due to injury in two seasons of Herm ball and Herm getting QB's killed goes back to his days with the Jets as well).

So, if we already have protection issues, which is NOT debateable, we're supposed to make it worse and spread the field and throw every down?

Makes perfect sense.

The New England Patriots would disagree with you. They have utilized the Martz/pass-oriented approach all season, to the tune of 16-0 and the highest scoring offense in NFL history. Earlier this month they destroyed Pittsburgh and did so by running the ball NINE... NINE times the entire game.


The don't run anything close to Martz offense. Throwing the ball downfield does not automatically equal a MM based offense.

And ironically, the Patriots, while you claim never run the ball, are 13th in rushing offense this year. A whopping 3 yards out of the Top 10.

Some games you can get away with not running the ball.

But you can't do it EVERY GODDAMN GAME like Martz does.

St. Louis realized this. Detroit realized this. And San Francisco will find out when/if they make the mistake of hiring him.

KCChiefsFan88
01-02-2008, 03:07 PM
Sure, seeing as how we've got a great line, a corps of proven, talented recievers and a great QB. Martz will work out just fine. Not.

Not to mention we're paying LJ $45 million over the next 5 years, I'd imagine we're gonna run the ball a whole lot.

Considering the Chiefs are going to blow up and rebuild the offense this offseason... why not have the architect of one of the greatest offenses in NFL history in charge of the rebuilding project.

OnTheWarpath58
01-02-2008, 03:14 PM
No point in trying to run when you are forced to go with the likes of Kevin "Fragile as Glass" Jones and Donks reject Tatum Bell

Idiot.

Mr 'Fragile as Glass" started 10 games for the Lions, and only averaged 12 carries per start.

In games where he carried the ball MORE than his average:

He averaged 4.5 yards per carry.

In games where he carried the ball LESS than his average:

He averaged 1.34 yards per carry.


But abandoning the run is a GREAT idea. Especially when you have a back who SHOWN he's capable if you're willing to give him the goddamn ball.

Pablo
01-02-2008, 03:16 PM
Considering the Chiefs are going to blow up and rebuild the offense this offseason... why not have the architect of one of the greatest offenses in NFL history in charge of the rebuilding project.Because Martz doesn't respect a decent balance between run/pass. I don't have a problem with the kind of offense DV ran here, he split the playcalling up pretty well. Martz went all air, all the time up in Detroit, and fell on his face. And as it stands, Detroit's offensive talent is either the same or better than our own. Martz isn't the right guy for our coaching staff or offensive talent at this time.

Nightfyre
01-02-2008, 03:20 PM
Ha, ha. Millen's an idiot. He's throwing his offensive coordinator under the bus to save his own sorry hide, when everyone on earth knows he can't get the job done.

Oh, wow. I just had a huge deja vu sensation right now.
How did everyone just breeze over this. Best post of the day.

BigRock
01-02-2008, 03:24 PM
I'd love to see Martz hired in KC. LJ would slap the everloving shit out of him by the 3rd preseason game, Martz would get canned, and the clip of it would be on Youtube forever.

KCChiefsFan88
01-02-2008, 05:58 PM
Yeah, it can be overlooked, just like people overlook Brian Billick as an offensive genius now. Amazing what happens when:

Billick had 9 years since his Minnesota days without being able to re-capture his success on offense. Martz sustained continued success on offense with the Lambs during his time as head coach there (St. Louis consistently finished in the top 10 in total offense and passing offense) and was able to produce a 4,000 yard passer and an offense that led Detoilet to 7 wins... and since wins are measured in dogs years in Detoilet that is like winning 15 games anywhere else. Martz's offense was the primary culprit behind their success, considering the Lions defense ranked 31st in the league.

a) You don't have the players to run the system. (Baltimore hasn't and the Chiefs don't)

If the Chiefs are going to completely rebuild the offense from scratch though, then why couldn't they build an offense with players that fit what Martz wants to do?

The flourished because they are both EXCELLENT at catching the ball out of the backfield, or lining up outside to create mismatches. We have no such back.

Steven Jackson and Larry Johnson are similar RBs, in terms of their running style and Martz was able to tailor his offense from Faulk's strengths to Jackson's strengths... there is no reason to think Martz couldn't do the same for LJ (who by the way has shown an ability to make big plays in the passing game when given the chance).

And trust me, I live in STL and have watched the Rams since day one here. They've had protection issues on some level from the beginning of the Martz era. Yet Martz is an egomaniac, and while knowing he had protection issues, continued to go empty backfield on a regular basis, getting the QB hammered. Just because the QB isn't getting sacked, doesn't mean he's not getting hit.

This would be my only concern about Martz... pass protecting the QB in his offense. However a good pass protecting offensive line (the best and healthiest offensive line Martz had with the Lambs was during the 1999 season when St. Louis gave up 33 sacks... 7th fewest in the league) and a QB that can get rid of the ball quickly, minimizes protection problems.

How do you develop 30 year old QB's?Bulger is the only one that you can say he "developed" and Marc has made it perfectly clear on numerous occasions in interviews and comment here that he's lucky Martz didn't kill him. Beside his gameday antics, the biggest reason Martz was let go in STL is that the brass realized that their Franchise Qb wouldn't last to his 30's at the rate things were going.


Trent Green was a 27 year old journeyman QB who had thrown 1 career pass prior to 1998 (Martz's second season as QB coach for the Redskins). During the '98 season... under Martz, Green developed into a an above average QB, throwing 23 TDs (versus only 11 INTs)for an 81.8 QB rating. Trent Green's career was nothing before Martz and the success Trent ultimately had in the league can be traced back to Martz's development.

Kurt Warner was 27 years old when he arrived in St. Louis during the '98 season and only attempted 11 career passes in the NFL prior to 1999, when Martz helped Warner produce one of the greatest QB seasons in NFL history went on to win a Super Bowl, a Super Bowl MVP, shatter several single season passing records and who currently has a 93.2 career QB rating.

You throw Marc Bulger into the mix and those are 3 QB development case studies that virtually no offensive coach in the last 10-15 years or so in the NFL can match.

So, if we already have protection issues, which is NOT debateable, we're supposed to make it worse and spread the field and throw every down?

No... improve the offensive line and build an offense with players that fit with what Martz wants to do on offense. Again the Chiefs are in a position this offseason where they are going to completely rebuild the offense from scratch... so saying they don't have the right players is not a valid argument because they don't have the right players for ANY successful offense currently.


The don't run anything close to Martz offense. Throwing the ball downfield does not automatically equal a MM based offense.

The specific formations utilized are different but the overall approach to rely primarily on the pass to move the ball is the same.

and ironically, the Patriots, while you claim never run the ball, are 13th in rushing offense this year. A whopping 3 yards out of the Top 10.

The Lambs twice finished in the top 5 in rushing offense/game during Martz's time in St. Louis (1999 and 2001).

CoMoChief
01-02-2008, 06:20 PM
I'm wondering why anyone would think Martz would be a good idea for ANY team, much less KC.

He abandons the running game.

He refuses to keep players inside to help with protection, which in turn gets the QB killed.

He'd be DEATH to a young QB's confidence, whether it be Croyle, Ryan or Brohm.

We should be looking for the anti-Martz. Someone who will benefit a young QB by protecting him from hits, and utilizing a strong running game to keep the defense off balance.

Passing the ball 80% of the time is NOT the answer.

Every QB under his wing has put up gawdy numbers.

Though they also throw a lot of INTs too.

I do know this. It is more likely that we would win shootouts under DV than to win close games with Herm. Ill take the agressive approach anyday over Herm.

doomy3
01-02-2008, 09:47 PM
Well, John Clayton seems to think Martz might end up in KC...

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1903

Southern Methodist University has reportedly made overtures to Mike Martz regarding the school's head coaching vacancy.

Um...no. SMU is also courting Hawaii's June Jones, so maybe the Mustangs came into some money recently. ESPN's John Clayton adds that Martz could be a candidate to replace Mike Solari as the Chiefs' offensive coordinator after he "apparently didn't fit" the criteria of 49ers' brass. We suspect Martz will explore NFL openings before settling for a low-end college job.
Source: ESPN Insider
Related: Chiefs, 49ers

OnTheWarpath58
01-02-2008, 09:51 PM
Well, John Clayton seems to think Martz might end up in KC...

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1903

Southern Methodist University has reportedly made overtures to Mike Martz regarding the school's head coaching vacancy.

Um...no. SMU is also courting Hawaii's June Jones, so maybe the Mustangs came into some money recently. ESPN's John Clayton adds that Martz could be a candidate to replace Mike Solari as the Chiefs' offensive coordinator after he "apparently didn't fit" the criteria of 49ers' brass. We suspect Martz will explore NFL openings before settling for a low-end college job.
Source: ESPN Insider
Related: Chiefs, 49ers

At least they said he "could" be a candidate, as opposed to IS a candidate.

Herm said this evening that Martz will not be part of the staff next year.