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FAX
01-02-2008, 11:37 AM
There aren't a lot, but I think they're discussion worthy ...

1) He says he's now building an offensive "system" around the players. That has a certain appeal. If you can construct an offense around the strengths of your young players, that could be a good thing ... theoretically speaking.

2) The youth movement is a net positive. Even if some of these guys don't pan out, some will and that bodes well for the future.

3) Taking player acquisition control away from Carl. Although Carl says that, in the past, he has only selected players that the coaches wanted, I'm unconvinced of the truthfulness of that statement. If Herm has any strong point, it may be in evaluating young players. We'll see.

4) .... ummmm.

Well, that's about it.

FAX

Disclaimers: Sorry if re-post. All opinions contained in this post are solely those of the thread starter. The thread starter makes no representation or warranty as to the accuracy, value, integrity, completeness or authenticity of the information or opinions contained in this post. No rumors were injured in the creation of this thread.

MGRS13
01-02-2008, 11:41 AM
?. What young players? Bowe is it on offense, K. Smith is just a backup so you can't really build around him....On defense it's Allen and DJ. Thats it. It seems the other young guys on defense Herm wanted to build around cant quite cut it. I won't even point out that Herm drafted neither of those guys.
4. Should have been.....We are in a world of hurt.

Chiefnj2
01-02-2008, 11:42 AM
Did you read the Gretz article from today? It doesn't sound like player acquisition control has been taken away. Even if it was, Herm sucks balls.

Direckshun
01-02-2008, 11:42 AM
I think what you're missing from #3 is that Carl is likely shut out from personnel decisions as far as who gets to start or see the field or whatever.

Rather it be Herm than Carl. Very happy that the lesser evil's closer and closer to being accomplished.

Mr. Laz
01-02-2008, 11:44 AM
1. just talk so far

2. lip service so far

3. believe it when i see it

4. ummmm


Laz
~waiting to believe~

HonestChieffan
01-02-2008, 11:44 AM
The cloud of negativity here makes it nearly impossible to post anything in a positive or unemotional manner, Mr. Fax.

You do make some valid points. But throwing ones self into the path of a speeding lightrail train is far more fun.

Pablo
01-02-2008, 11:45 AM
***Obligatory "I hate Herman Edwards, DV is my shepherd, he maketh me to lie down in green pastures, he leadeth me beside the still waters...post."***

RJ
01-02-2008, 11:45 AM
I agree completely with number four.

Numbers two and three, only time will tell.

Number one makes me think that Herm just makes up the offense as he goes along.

FAX
01-02-2008, 11:45 AM
?. What young players? Bowe is it on offense, K. Smith is just a backup so you can't really build around him....On defense it's Allen and DJ. Thats it. It seems the other young guys on defense Herm wanted to build around cant quite cut it. I won't even point out that Herm drafted neither of those guys.
4. Should have been.....We are in a world of hurt.

I'm basing number 2 on Herm's many statements on Carl's show the other night, Mr. MGRS13. It was all about building young after stockpiling draft picks and so on. He sounded like a man committed to going young across the board.

FAX

Count Zarth
01-02-2008, 11:47 AM
I like the fact he's dicking around with a n00b OC.

That will seal his fate. In two years he's gone. See ya!

Saleenman607
01-02-2008, 11:48 AM
Sorry Fax.......I don't believe a dad'gum thing Herm says. He'll have to prove he doesn't speak with a forked tongue before I trust what he say's. He has zero credibility with me

Mr. Laz
01-02-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm basing number 2 on Herm's many statements on Carl's show the other night, Mr. MGRS13. It was all about building young after stockpiling draft picks and so on. He sounded like a man committed to going young across the board.

FAX
i don't disagree, Mr. Fax


but maybe your thread should of been titled "Things i like about what Herm is saying" instead though.

Chiefnj2
01-02-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm basing number 2 on Herm's many statements on Carl's show the other night, Mr. MGRS13. It was all about building young after stockpiling draft picks and so on. He sounded like a man committed to going young across the board.

FAX

Isn't that what Herm has said from day 1??

MGRS13
01-02-2008, 11:49 AM
The cloud of negativity here makes it nearly impossible to post anything in a positive or unemotional manner, Mr. Fax.

You do make some valid points. But throwing ones self into the path of a speeding lightrail train is far more fun.
So besides Bowe, Dj and allen who is it we are building around. Please tell me why I should be positive about what is/has happened to the chiefs. Hell just tell me why I should think they will win more then 2 games next year.

FAX
01-02-2008, 11:50 AM
Did you read the Gretz article from today? It doesn't sound like player acquisition control has been taken away. Even if it was, Herm sucks balls.

Missed it, Mr. Chiefnj2. Did you read my disclaimer?

Besides, I'm not saying Herm doesn't suck balls. I am convinced that, not only does he suck balls, but he likes sucking balls. Nevertheless, these items do have some potential for positive results, do they not?

FAX

Pablo
01-02-2008, 11:50 AM
Herm is the scapegoat, forced into building a young team because of injuries/retirement etc., because CP and DV alike totally ignored the issue. And now, he's going to get this team headed in the right direction, so the next HC can be gifted a young, talented team, and all the Herm-haters can stand firm in their disdain for him, and all the DV-lover's can hold onto the notion Vermeil left Herm with an amazing crop of talent and he pissed it away.

MGRS13
01-02-2008, 11:51 AM
I'm basing number 2 on Herm's many statements on Carl's show the other night, Mr. MGRS13. It was all about building young after stockpiling draft picks and so on. He sounded like a man committed to going young across the board.

FAX
So with his draft history we'll get one more good player this year and MAYBE 2 ok/special team guys? I don't think he's capable of building around his young guys.

FAX
01-02-2008, 11:52 AM
... but maybe your thread should of been titled "Things i like about what Herm is saying" instead though.

ROFL

Unquestionably so.

FAX

FAX
01-02-2008, 11:52 AM
Isn't that what Herm has said from day 1??

Simmah!!!!

I worked hard on that disclaimer, peep.

FAX

Woodrow Call
01-02-2008, 11:53 AM
About the only thing I like about Herm is his drafting. I guess I also like the fact that he pulled the plug on Solari instead of waiting to long like DV did with GRob.

Other than those 2 things I can't think of anything else.

Chiefnj2
01-02-2008, 11:55 AM
Missed it, Mr. Chiefnj2. Did you read my disclaimer?

Besides, I'm not saying Herm doesn't suck balls. I am convinced that, not only does he suck balls, but he likes sucking balls. Nevertheless, these items do have some potential for positive results, do they not?

FAX

I fail to see the potential for positive results arising from Herm sucking balls. On second thought, one does come to mind. I'd dance the jig of happiness if I awoke to a newspaper article stating that Herm, Carl and Clark simultaneously choked to death on each others testicles.

FAX
01-02-2008, 11:59 AM
I think what you're missing from #3 is that Carl is likely shut out from personnel decisions as far as who gets to start or see the field or whatever.

Rather it be Herm than Carl. Very happy that the lesser evil's closer and closer to being accomplished.

My view on this was influenced by Carl's show the other night, Mr. Direckshun. Carl said in no uncertain terms that the reason we never drafted and developed a QB, for example, was because he hasn't had a head coach who wanted to do that.

Then, there are the rumors on the Planet in respect to Herm taking draft day decision-making under his armpit.

I put two and two together, made a titty graph, and reported the results.

FAX

MGRS13
01-02-2008, 11:59 AM
About the only thing I like about Herm is his drafting. I guess I also like the fact that he pulled the plug on Solari instead of waiting to long like DV did with GRob.

Other than those 2 things I can't think of anything else.
I think he is getting a free pass on the drafting thing.
Bowe-great pick, good job.
Hali-looked good, sopohmore slump? maybe I'll give the benifit of doubt.
Page-good value really really took a drop this year.
Pollard-great ST'er but awful in coverage, I won't give the benifit of doubt on this one.
Any body else? hello anybody?
One great pick one good pick one maybe pick and then everyone else......I am not sold on Herms ability to draft at all.

Wile_E_Coyote
01-02-2008, 12:05 PM
Going younger. Any of Peterson's other HC choices would have the Chiefs near cap hell trying to keep an ancient offense productive. As we now know that would have been money wasted. The o-line & QB were past their prime

HemiEd
01-02-2008, 12:07 PM
Mr. Fax, I am usually an optimistic person, almost always.

I want to believe in what is going to happen, I really do.

However, when closely examining #2, I broke my ankle tripping over it.

We are going to trade "experience and wisdom" for "youth and talent."

For a moment, let me agree with this as the right way to go.

Ok, who is going to school the "youth and talent?" Herm? Curl? I can't get past this, some may call it pessimism. To think they can pull it off is strictly naive or a person has not been paying attention.

FAX
01-02-2008, 12:13 PM
Mr. Fax, I am usually an optimistic person, almost always.

I want to believe in what is going to happen, I really do.

However, when closely examining #2, I broke my ankle tripping over it.

We are going to trade "experience and wisdom" for "youth and talent."

For a moment, let me agree with this as the right way to go.

Ok, who is going to school the "youth and talent?" Herm? Curl? I can't get past this, some may call it pessimism. To think they can pull it off is strictly naive or a person has not been paying attention.

Yep. There's the rub, right there. Conceptually, "The Plan" (as I understand it) isn't all that bad, really. The problem comes when you consider who is actually implementing "The Plan".

FAX

Pablo
01-02-2008, 12:15 PM
Mr. Fax, I am usually an optimistic person, almost always.

I want to believe in what is going to happen, I really do.

However, when closely examining #2, I broke my ankle tripping over it.

We are going to trade "experience and wisdom" for "youth and talent."

For a moment, let me agree with this as the right way to go.

Ok, who is going to school the "youth and talent?" Herm? Curl? I can't get past this, some may call it pessimism. To think they can pull it off is strictly naive or a person has not been paying attention.
Experience and wisdom in CP's book means bringing in a corps of 9-year veteran linemen, who are due to retire or get hurt in 2 or 3 seasons at best, then adressing the issue when that happens. I don't care who is schooling this youth and talent, as long as we aren't looking at starting 15+ guys who are near or over 30 years old.

Chris Meck
01-02-2008, 12:15 PM
Well, whether or not YOU agree, I think Herm is on the Brodie bandwagon. So he wants to build around Brodie, Bowe, LJ, Kolby on offense. Allen, DJ, Hali, Page, Pollard, Brackenridge, etc. on defense. Again, YOU may not agree, but we also don't see practices, etc.

FAX
01-02-2008, 12:17 PM
... So he wants to build around Brodie, Bowe, LJ, Kolby on offense. Allen, DJ, Hali, Page, Pollard, Brackenridge, etc. on defense. ....

That's the impression I've gotten, Mr. Chris Meck.

FAX

Skip Towne
01-02-2008, 12:22 PM
Huck Ferm

Pablo
01-02-2008, 12:22 PM
Well, whether or not YOU agree, I think Herm is on the Brodie bandwagon. So he wants to build around Brodie, Bowe, LJ, Kolby on offense. Allen, DJ, Hali, Page, Pollard, Brackenridge, etc. on defense. Again, YOU may not agree, but we also don't see practices, etc.What a crazy concept. Giving young players time to develop and actually play games, rather than bringing in scabs every other year to be a stop-gap until they retire. Herm's f*cking nuts.

King_Chief_Fan
01-02-2008, 12:24 PM
Herm is the scapegoat, forced into building a young team because of injuries/retirement etc., because CP and DV alike totally ignored the issue. And now, he's going to get this team headed in the right direction, so the next HC can be gifted a young, talented team, and all the Herm-haters can stand firm in their disdain for him, and all the DV-lover's can hold onto the notion Vermeil left Herm with an amazing crop of talent and he pissed it away.

So? Is there a problem?

Count Zarth
01-02-2008, 12:24 PM
Huck Ferm

I'll never doubt you again. You were right about Herm from the beginning, old timer. Always listen to the wise one.

Skip Towne
01-02-2008, 12:27 PM
I'll never doubt you again. You were right about Herm from the beginning, old timer. Always listen to the wise one.
Actually I was neutral on Herm at first. I learned to hate him after he got here.

King_Chief_Fan
01-02-2008, 12:28 PM
Herm is the scapegoat, forced into building a young team because of injuries/retirement etc., because CP and DV alike totally ignored the issue. And now, he's going to get this team headed in the right direction, so the next HC can be gifted a young, talented team, and all the Herm-haters can stand firm in their disdain for him, and all the DV-lover's can hold onto the notion Vermeil left Herm with an amazing crop of talent and he pissed it away.

forced into the building a young team? The idiot knew full well what he was getting into. If anyone took it in the shorts on this deal it was KC. Herm was about to be fired. Carl handed out a draft pick to take this moron out of the unemployment line and gave him 3 more years of employment. Who says he is going to get this team in the right direction? He has proven that his assessments are way off base. Going into 2007 he actually thought he had a good team.

Pablo
01-02-2008, 12:29 PM
So? Is there a problem?Just the problem of DV f*cking this team up, and now Herm has to try to clean up his mess. I'm glad Herm is coming back next year, if nothing else, he has the balls to put guys out there every week who don't dump Metamucil in their orange juice.

King_Chief_Fan
01-02-2008, 12:32 PM
Just the problem of DV f*cking this team up, and now Herm has to try to clean up his mess. I'm glad Herm is coming back next year, if nothing else, he has the balls to put guys out there every week who don't dump Metamucil in their orange juice.

maybe so but that isomeil bunch can only do so much. There needs to be a balance.

HemiEd
01-02-2008, 12:33 PM
Yep. There's the rub, right there. Conceptually, "The Plan" (as I understand it) isn't all that bad, really. The problem comes when you consider who is actually implementing "The Plan".

FAX

Yep, because more fail at this plan each year, in the NFL, than succeed.

I have been saying it for months, failure is no guarantee of future success.

I watched the Bears draft high for years, then they caught lightning in a jug last year. Detroit, Oakland, Cincy, the examples are almost endless.

HemiEd
01-02-2008, 12:35 PM
forced into the building a young team? The idiot knew full well what he was getting into. If anyone took it in the shorts on this deal it was KC. Herm was about to be fired. Carl handed out a draft pick to take this moron out of the unemployment line and gave him 3 more years of employment. Who says he is going to get this team in the right direction? He has proven that his assessments are way off base. Going into 2007 he actually thought he had a good team.

We have a WINNER! :thumb:

Pablo
01-02-2008, 12:37 PM
forced into the building a young team? The idiot knew full well what he was getting into. If anyone took it in the shorts on this deal it was KC. Herm was about to be fired. Carl handed out a draft pick to take this moron out of the unemployment line and gave him 3 more years of employment. Who says he is going to get this team in the right direction? He has proven that his assessments are way off base. Going into 2007 he actually thought he had a good team.I don't think anyone had any grand dillusions of the Chiefs being a good team heading into 2007. Not Herm, not CP, not the players. We had a star RB holding out of camp, our first round pick showing up late, and one of the oldest rosters in the league. The only part that the Chiefs seriously evaluated incorrectly, was the offensive line. We actually drafted a couple of linemen this last season, that's a really crazy concept. The line was garbage, the QB position was up in the air, and our defense was young in some spots, and old where it didn't need to be.

This wasn't a good team, and if I could see it, so could Herm, so could CP, so could every coach on the staff. We shocked the sh*t out of every analyst in America, when we went 4-3 and our defense carried us on their back.

DenverChief
01-02-2008, 12:37 PM
?. What young players? Bowe is it on offense, K. Smith is just a backup so you can't really build around him....On defense it's Allen and DJ. Thats it. It seems the other young guys on defense Herm wanted to build around cant quite cut it. I won't even point out that Herm drafted neither of those guys.
4. Should have been.....We are in a world of hurt.

what?

uh
Webb
Croyle
Bowe
Sippio
Grigsby
LJ
Smith


Allen
Hali
DJ
Pollard
Page
Patterson
Brackenridge
Mcbride
Tyler

All with 4 years or less experience and will play a role as starter or oft played reserve

Calcountry
01-02-2008, 12:42 PM
Wow, and it has only taken 2 years, and an abominable 07 season, to change all the coaches. At this rate, we should have the team up to 500 in about 3 years.

acasas4
01-02-2008, 12:48 PM
I fail to see the potential for positive results arising from Herm sucking balls. On second thought, one does come to mind. I'd dance the jig of happiness if I awoke to a newspaper article stating that Herm, Carl and Clark simultaneously choked to death on each others testicles.LMAO

Rain Man
01-02-2008, 12:51 PM
In concept, I like how he's getting the entire coaching staff on the same page, instead of having half of them wanting to get first downs and stuff.

MGRS13
01-02-2008, 12:55 PM
[QUOTE=DenverChief]what?

uh
Webb
Croyle
Bowe
Sippio
Grigsby
LJ
Smith


Allen
Hali
DJ
Pollard
Page
Patterson
Brackenridge
Mcbride
Tyler

All with 4 years or less experience and will play a role as starter or oft played reserve[/QUOTE
Just because they are young doesn't mean they are good.
On offense the only player in your list that we know is good is Bowe, LJ didn't look good at all this year hopefully he'll come back. On D Allen and DJ are the only ones that have proven anything.

FAX
01-02-2008, 01:02 PM
...Just because they are young doesn't mean they are good. ...

See? That's the cool thing about all of this, Mr. MGRS13. You're absolutely right. We don't know if most of those guys will actually pan out. However, we suck so bad right now that we can't get worse. This means that we can, in fact, load up with young, crappy players, give them time to develop (or not), and we're in absolutely no danger of harming the team. It's the opportunity of a decade.

FAX

JohninGpt
01-02-2008, 02:28 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why he hasn't fired our "Very Special Teams" coach.

MGRS13
01-02-2008, 02:31 PM
See? That's the cool thing about all of this, Mr. MGRS13. You're absolutely right. We don't know if most of those guys will actually pan out. However, we suck so bad right now that we can't get worse. This means that we can, in fact, load up with young, crappy players, give them time to develop (or not), and we're in absolutely no danger of harming the team. It's the opportunity of a decade.

FAXWell I can't argue with that, the only problem i see is Herm DOESN'T draft well. So we can and IMO will be worse next year.

FAX
01-02-2008, 02:38 PM
Well I can't argue with that, the only problem i see is Herm DOESN'T draft well. So we can and IMO will be worse next year.

Well, I have misgivings about that, as well, Mr. MGRS13. Then again, maybe our luck is due to change. Maybe, just maybe, we'll strike gold in this year's draft and bring in 8 future pro-bowlers and Herm will receive a visitation from a messenger from God instructing him to forego his career in football, travel to India, and carve the likeness of Sophia Loren in a giant banyon tree.

FAX

Pablo
01-02-2008, 02:38 PM
Well I can't argue with that, the only problem i see is Herm DOESN'T draft well. So we can and IMO will be worse next year.You're ragging on Herm's drafts picks, but were DJ, LJ, or JA great contributors in their second years?

No. JA did pretty well, but he was not universally considered a "building block for our future."

Give the young players time.

Hali and Bowe have both shown they can be adequate long-term talents, Page is pretty solid, and there have been question marks elsewhere, but one or two seasons isn't the standard you wan't to judge young developmental players by.

MGRS13
01-02-2008, 02:43 PM
You're ragging on Herm's drafts picks, but were DJ, LJ, or JA great contributors in their second years?

No. JA did pretty well, but he was not universally considered a "building block for our future."

Give the young players time.

Hali and Bowe have both shown they can be adequate long-term talents, Page is pretty solid, and there have been question marks elsewhere, but one or two seasons isn't the standard you wan't to judge young developmental players by.
I'm sorry but if you couldn't prove you deserved to be a starter on this team this year your career is probably going to be pretty short.

FAX
01-02-2008, 02:50 PM
I'm sorry but if you couldn't prove you deserved to be a starter on this team this year your career is probably going to be pretty short.

ROFL

FAX

Skip Towne
01-02-2008, 05:32 PM
Well, I have misgivings about that, as well, Mr. MGRS13. Then again, maybe our luck is due to change. Maybe, just maybe, we'll strike gold in this year's draft and bring in 8 future pro-bowlers and Herm will receive a visitation from a messenger from God instructing him to forego his career in football, travel to India, and carve the likeness of Sophia Loren in a giant banyon tree.

FAX
Topless?

EM31
01-02-2008, 05:36 PM
I like the fact he's dicking around with a n00b OC.

That will seal his fate. In two years he's gone. See ya!
Dicking around with a noob OC actually confers longevity and finally plausible deniability upon Herm when the noob gets tossed under the bus (by Herm) a few years from now.

Herm "stands by his man" initially but alludes to the idea that there are still some kinks to be worked out or that there are some "breakdowns in communication". Possibly even that the players are getting used to the "new" system. All good way to buy time if the posse in on your tail.

Then, if the offense shows no improvement, Herm gets to "step in and take a closer hand" (whereas in reality he has had a close hand all along and probably used the "noob status" to force the noob into a Paul Hackett type style of offense)....

Finally, 2-3 seasons down the road, Herm gets to reluctantly make the call for a change while leading the public to draw the the conclusion that it was really all the fault of <insert noob's name here>.

HemiEd
01-02-2008, 05:40 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why he hasn't fired our "Very Special Teams" coach.

I have been scratching my head trying to remember a time when Herm even mentioned special teams. I know Dick used to talk about it all the time, but not sure about Herm. Maybe I have just tuned the idiot out.

Reerun_KC
01-02-2008, 05:41 PM
Nothing, absolutely nothing!

Sooner he is gone the sooner we will have something to cheer about.

Extra Point
01-02-2008, 05:46 PM
I can't wait until Clark says the following about Carl, then Carl says the following about Herm, the Herm will say the following about the next OC:

"It's his job to lose."

LMAO

Coach
01-02-2008, 05:57 PM
There aren't a lot, but I think they're discussion worthy ...

1) He says he's now building an offensive "system" around the players. That has a certain appeal. If you can construct an offense around the strengths of your young players, that could be a good thing ... theoretically speaking.

Well, there was nothing wrong with the previous offensive "system" with the players. I think the problem is that he doesn't want to adapt to that offensive style. He just wants the "Ream it in the ass" football style.

2) The youth movement is a net positive. Even if some of these guys don't pan out, some will and that bodes well for the future.

Right, like he has been saying from the start of the season, yet he choose a 34 year old career backup/3rd stringer QB, all the O-line is over 30, and when LJ got hurt, that he chose Priest over Kolby.

Sorry, I'm not buying this youth movement.

3) Taking player acquisition control away from Carl. Although Carl says that, in the past, he has only selected players that the coaches wanted, I'm unconvinced of the truthfulness of that statement. If Herm has any strong point, it may be in evaluating young players. We'll see.

Won't make a difference, me thinks. I wouldn't be surprised if the first two picks were defensive players in this year's NFL Draft.

4) .... ummmm.

Well, that's about it.

FAX

Disclaimers: Sorry if re-post. All opinions contained in this post are solely those of the thread starter. The thread starter makes no representation or warranty as to the accuracy, value, integrity, completeness or authenticity of the information or opinions contained in this post. No rumors were injured in the creation of this thread.

Yeah, that's about sums it up, in my view.

Simplex3
01-02-2008, 06:04 PM
I like that Herm hasn't burned any villages, and has raped very few goats.

OnTheWarpath58
01-02-2008, 06:06 PM
Won't make a difference, me thinks. I wouldn't be surprised if the first two picks were defensive players in this year's NFL Draft.

If the best players on the board at the time just happen to be defensive players, where's the problem?

This teams has holes everywhere.

Shy of RB, there's not a position that couldn't/shouldn't be upgraded on the first day of the draft.

HemiEd
01-02-2008, 06:08 PM
He just wants the "Ream it in the ass" football style.
.
He always says he wants it simple for the players to understand, but I think it so he can understand.
Won't make a difference, me thinks. I wouldn't be surprised if the first two picks were defensive players in this year's NFL Draft.

That is not funny, quit it! :cuss:

JohninGpt
01-02-2008, 06:08 PM
...and has raped very few goats.
We don't know this for sure. He may turn into a coyote at night.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=177840

Simplex3
01-02-2008, 06:09 PM
We don't know this for sure. He may turn into a coyote at night.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=177840
Right, but that's just one goat. I think Herm keeps Dick Curl around so that the local goat population is safer.

JohninGpt
01-02-2008, 06:11 PM
Right, but that's just one goat. I think Herm keeps Dick Curl around so that the local goat population is safer.
Is Dick one of those fainting goats?

stonedstooge
01-02-2008, 06:31 PM
If I was new to the sport and watched that cluster f**k of a game Sunday I would first ask, don't either of these guys know how to coach. And then when I found out that one of the coaches coached the other team two years ago, the answer would be simple. The new head coach ain't nothing special, but the guy that has coached both teams must be a real f**k up. Are the Jets in the end of the Plan, year 4? They talked about how so many of the players were the same that were there when Herm coached there. I think he could have the first 10 picks of all teams and would have no idea how to make a winner out of them. The guy just plain can't coach.

Buehler445
01-02-2008, 06:37 PM
If I was new to the sport and watched that cluster f**k of a game Sunday I would first ask, don't either of these guys know how to coach. And then when I found out that one of the coaches coached the other team two years ago, the answer would be simple. The new head coach ain't nothing special, but the guy that has coached both teams must be a real f**k up. Are the Jets in the end of the Plan, year 4? They talked about how so many of the players were the same that were there when Herm coached there. I think he could have the first 10 picks of all teams and would have no idea how to make a winner out of them. The guy just plain can't coach.

There are only 18 PLAYERS left from Herm 34%. I'd say if Herm was such a master of finding/playing young guys, more than a third of their roster would be there. They couldn't play the old man card and I haven't seen a mass of solid free agents leaving the Jets.

Skip Towne
01-02-2008, 06:42 PM
There are only 18 PLAYERS left from Herm 34%. I'd say if Herm was such a master of finding/playing young guys, more than a third of their roster would be there. They couldn't play the old man card and I haven't seen a mass of solid free agents leaving the Jets.
The man isn't a head coach. I'm amazed he has lasted 7 years.

FAX
01-02-2008, 06:44 PM
There are only 18 PLAYERS left from Herm 34%. I'd say if Herm was such a master of finding/playing young guys, more than a third of their roster would be there. They couldn't play the old man card and I haven't seen a mass of solid free agents leaving the Jets.

Ouch. I didn't realize that. Dang.

FAX

Zouk
01-02-2008, 07:10 PM
There are only 18 PLAYERS left from Herm 34%. I'd say if Herm was such a master of finding/playing young guys, more than a third of their roster would be there. They couldn't play the old man card and I haven't seen a mass of solid free agents leaving the Jets.

There are 24 players on this year's Colts that were with the Colts in 2005. Turnover is the name of the game in the NFL. With the Jets they changed the offensive and defensive schemes so more turnover than normal was inevitable.

This works both ways though - if the talent in NY wasn't good (and it really was no better than average), then Herm deserves credit for winning playoff games and almost beating the 15-1 Steelers on the road in the playoffs in 2004 with that bunch.

FAX
01-02-2008, 07:16 PM
Mr. Zouk The Relentless.

FAX

Zouk
01-02-2008, 07:22 PM
Mr. Zouk The Relentless.

FAX

Yeah the board would be so much more interesting if we all just agreed with each other all the time and no one introduced actual facts.

Dick Curl is the worst ever!

Buehler445
01-02-2008, 07:26 PM
There are 24 players on this year's Colts that were with the Colts in 2005. Turnover is the name of the game in the NFL. With the Jets they changed the offensive and defensive schemes so more turnover than normal was inevitable.

This works both ways though - if the talent in NY wasn't good (and it really was no better than average), then Herm deserves credit for winning playoff games and almost beating the 15-1 Steelers on the road in the playoffs in 2004 with that bunch.

I'd agree that he won a good game. But everybody is expecting Herm to build a winner. But looking at the Jets, I haven't seen it.

ChiefsCountry
01-02-2008, 07:29 PM
But everybody is expecting Herm to build a winner.

I'm expecting Herm to get the talent here and somebody new to come in and win.

Extra Point
01-02-2008, 07:33 PM
Herm gets credit where Larry Csonka gets discredit for the "Miracle in the Meadowlands."

Can we ever get any freedom from Philadelphia?

FAX
01-02-2008, 07:34 PM
Yeah the board would be so much more interesting if we all just agreed with each other all the time and no one introduced actual facts.

Dick Curl is the worst ever!

Don't get me wrong, Mr. Zouk. I actually admire your loyalty to Herm.

Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder if "The Plan" will actually work. Of course, we first have to become the worst team in history and the laughingstock of the league and force our best players to consider suicide, but what the heck?

FAX

EM31
01-02-2008, 08:20 PM
There is simply no evidence that I have ever seen... anywhere... that Herm is either a good evaluator of talent or a good developer of young talent. Simply no evidence whatsoever.

There is scads of evidence to the effect that the opposite may be true. Herm is just as good at identifying and developing young talent as he is managing a game clock with less than two minutes to go..... ;)

Herm got his start as a head coach because a soon-to-be-retiring commisioner put the arm on a new, wet-behind-the-ears owner to hire a black head coach and to overlook the small fact that there was nothing in Herman Edwards resume, nothing at all, to indicate that he was either qualified or ready to accept such a position. Herman Edwards spent the next five seasons systematically driving the Jets franchise into the ground before leaving town two minutes ahead of the posse.

The worst thing that ever happened to the Jets was backing into the playoffs in two years out of the five with a 9-7 record and lots of help at the finish line to get in. If not for that Herm would have been canned long before the five years was up.

Good luck getting rid of him guys, you can expect to see the spectre of a race card being played if it looks like he might lose his job. "What other white coach gets fired after taking his team to the playoffs four out of seven years... or even four out of eight or nine?".... Trust me when the time finally comes it is going to be harder to get rid of Herm than flicking snot off your finger nail.

OnTheWarpath58
01-02-2008, 08:29 PM
There is simply no evidence that I have ever seen... anywhere... that Herm is either a good evaluator of talent or a good developer of young talent. Simply no evidence whatsoever.

There is scads of evidence to the effect that the opposite may be true. Herm is just as good at identifying and developing young talent as he is managing a game clock with less than two minutes to go..... ;)

Herm got his start as a head coach because a soon-to-be-retiring commisioner put the arm on a new, wet-behind-the-ears owner to hire a black head coach and to overlook the small fact that there was nothing in Herman Edwards resume, nothing at all, to indicate that he was either qualified or ready to accept such a position. Herman Edwards spent the next five seasons systematically driving the Jets franchise into the ground before leaving town two minutes ahead of the posse.

The worst thing that ever happened to the Jets was backing into the playoffs in two years out of the five with a 9-7 record and lots of help at the finish line to get in. If not for that Herm would have been canned long before the five years was up.

Good luck getting rid of him guys, you can expect to see the spectre of a race card being played if it looks like he might lose his job. "What other white coach gets fired after taking his team to the playoffs four out of seven years... or even four out of eight or nine?".... Trust me when the time finally comes it is going to be harder to get rid of Herm than flicking snot off your finger nail.


Yeah, that really sucks when you "back into the playoffs" then win your 1st round game.

Systematically driving the Jets franchise into the ground before leaving town, eh?

Strap that tinfoil hat on tight, it's gonna be a long offseason.

KcMizzou
01-02-2008, 08:47 PM
Don't get me wrong, Mr. Zouk. I actually admire your loyalty to Herm.

Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder if "The Plan" will actually work. Of course, we first have to become the worst team in history and the laughingstock of the league and force our best players to consider suicide, but what the heck?

FAXA little "Devil's Advocate" here...

Haven't people been saying for years that we need to bottom out before we can really get where we wanna go? The same people that were sick of "mediocrity"? Wailing about how bouncing around from 8-8 to 11-5 wasn't ever going to get us anywhere?

Well, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Now, maybe the people that wanted a complete rebuild aren't completely happy with the way it's being done... but it is, in fact, being done.

Unfortunately, (or fortunately, I guess, depending on how you look at it) I don't think it was planned. I think Carl and Herm tried to do it while keeping us competitve, and it all just fell apart.

Now the only gripe those people should have is that the wrong people are doing the rebuilding. If that's the case... they won't last much longer.

OnTheWarpath58
01-02-2008, 08:49 PM
A little "Devil's Advocate" here...

Haven't people been saying for years that we need to bottom out before we can really get where we wanna go? The same people that were sick of "mediocrity"? Wailing about how bouncing around from 8-8 to 11-5 wasn't ever going to get us anywhere?

Well, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Now, maybe the people that wanted a complete rebuild aren't completely happy with the way it's being done... but it is, in fact, being done.

Unfortunately, (or fortunately, I guess, depending on how you look at it) I don't think it was planned. I think Carl and Herm tried to do it while keeping us competitve, and it all just fell apart.

Now the only gripe those people should have is that the wrong people are doing the rebuilding. If that's the case... they won't last much longer.

Great post.

Pablo
01-02-2008, 08:54 PM
A little "Devil's Advocate" here...

Haven't people been saying for years that we need to bottom out before we can really get where we wanna go? The same people that were sick of "mediocrity"? Wailing about how bouncing around from 8-8 to 11-5 wasn't ever going to get us anywhere?

Well, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Now, maybe the people that wanted a complete rebuild aren't completely happy with the way it's being done... but it is, in fact, being done.

Unfortunately, (or fortunately, I guess, depending on how you look at it) I don't think it was planned. I think Carl and Herm tried to do it while keeping us competitve, and it all just fell apart.

Now the only gripe those people should have is that the wrong people are doing the rebuilding. If that's the case... they won't last much longer.Sometimes Mizzou fans make perfect sense.

KcMizzou
01-02-2008, 08:55 PM
Sometimes Mizzou fans make perfect sense.Heh, thanks.

It's snowing in hell.

Pablo
01-02-2008, 08:57 PM
Heh, thanks.

It's snowing in hell.More than likely, yes it is.

noa
01-02-2008, 08:58 PM
I like that Herm hasn't publicly stated an opposition to sexy lesbians.

FAX
01-02-2008, 09:19 PM
A little "Devil's Advocate" here...

Haven't people been saying for years that we need to bottom out before we can really get where we wanna go? The same people that were sick of "mediocrity"? Wailing about how bouncing around from 8-8 to 11-5 wasn't ever going to get us anywhere?

Well, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Now, maybe the people that wanted a complete rebuild aren't completely happy with the way it's being done... but it is, in fact, being done.

Unfortunately, (or fortunately, I guess, depending on how you look at it) I don't think it was planned. I think Carl and Herm tried to do it while keeping us competitve, and it all just fell apart.

Now the only gripe those people should have is that the wrong people are doing the rebuilding. If that's the case... they won't last much longer.

I'm proud as a Philistine kitsch dealer that this post is in my thread.

FAX

EM31
01-02-2008, 09:22 PM
Yeah, that really sucks when you "back into the playoffs" then win your 1st round game.

Systematically driving the Jets franchise into the ground before leaving town, eh?

Strap that tinfoil hat on tight, it's gonna be a long offseason.
That Jets team that was good enough to win a wild card game handily (and we did). The team also had enough talent and a schedule to be a 12-4 or an 11-5 team. Given those two things then why should anyone be grateful that the head coach only managed to back us in to a 9-7 season record with some notable down the stretch losses to indifferent teams? Does it make everything OK then if the Wannstadt Dolphins also manage to lose two very improbable games to finish up so that the Jets end up first in a three way tie at 9-7 and win the division on the third tie-breaker? Suure... great coaching job be Hermn on that one!

If Edwards had taken over the Cowboys this year they would probably be 8-8 or 9-7 with an anemic offense. But not playing Arena Football!!!

Herm coached not to lose and his teams were consistenty unprepared for what they were going to be facing on Sundays. I see he has improved a bunch since then.

How was your playoff game last year?

But by all means please tell me what players Herm has developed or which picks were Herman Edwards picks that ended up in the pro bowl or even as solid starters in this league. We saw none of that in New York. None. We saw a boat load of over-the-hill secondary free-agents acquisition, many with personal ties to Edwards. We generally overpaid massively for these scrubs who then underperformed to a similar degree. How about you guys with free-agents? How has Herm's eye for talent been there?

The Jets were a taleneted team and not an old team when Herman Edwards inherited them. The 21 mile marathoner Parcells has a habit of leaving teams like that. Five years later, after Edwards left we had holes everywhere and were a very old and untalented team. In other word he drove us (presided over) a drop into the toilet and did zero about restocking the pantry before he skipped town in the dead of night....

Edwards had a nearly five year unbroken record of allowing (read directing) criticism to fall on the heads of anyone and anybody not named Herman Edwards.... Tossing 'em under the bus was a regular event with this guy. Players, assistant coaches, coordinators, the press... anyone where he thought he could get away with shifting any blame from St. Herman.

I suppose you have seen none of that type behavior in KC.

What part of "dirtbag" or snake oil salesman does not apply in this case?

KcMizzou
01-02-2008, 09:24 PM
I'm proud as a Philistine kitsch dealer that this post is in my thread.

FAXLMAO

I'm gonna have to look that up, brb.

FAX
01-02-2008, 09:26 PM
This part right here ... "... his teams were consistenty unprepared for what they were going to be facing on Sundays." ... is one of the things that bothers me the most about Herm, Mr. EM31.

I don't get it. Coaches with experience and without and from PeeWee to the Bigs can get their teams ready to take the field, but Herm seems to have some difficulty with that little matter. Strange.

FAX

OnTheWarpath58
01-02-2008, 09:34 PM
That Jets team that was good enough to win a wild card game handily (and we did). The team also had enough talent and a schedule to be a 12-4 or an 11-5 team. Given those two things then why should anyone be grateful that the head coach only managed to back us in to a 9-7 season record with some notable down the stretch losses to indifferent teams? Does it make everything OK then if the Wannstadt Dolphins also manage to lose two very improbable games to finish up so that the Jets end up first in a three way tie at 9-7 and win the division on the third tie-breaker? Suure... great coaching job be Hermn on that one!

If Edwards had taken over the Cowboys this year they would probably be 8-8 or 9-7 with an anemic offense. But not playing Arena Football!!!

Herm coached not to lose and his teams were consistenty unprepared for what they were going to be facing on Sundays. I see he has improved a bunch since then.

How was your playoff game last year?

But by all means please tell me what players Herm has developed or which picks were Herman Edwards picks that ended up in the pro bowl or even as solid starters in this league. We saw none of that in New York. None. We saw a boat load of over-the-hill secondary free-agents acquisition, many with personal ties to Edwards. We generally overpaid massively for these scrubs who then underperformed to a similar degree. How about you guys with free-agents? How has Herm's eye for talent been there?

The Jets were a taleneted team and not an old team when Herman Edwards inherited them. The 21 mile marathoner Parcells has a habit of leaving teams like that. Five years later, after Edwards left we had holes everywhere and were a very old and untalented team. In other word he drove us (presided over) a drop into the toilet and did zero about restocking the pantry before he skipped town in the dead of night....

Edwards had a nearly five year unbroken record of allowing (read directing) criticism to fall on the heads of anyone and anybody not named Herman Edwards.... Tossing 'em under the bus was a regular event with this guy. Players, assistant coaches, coordinators, the press... anyone where he thought he could get away with shifting any blame from St. Herman.

I suppose you have seen none of that type behavior in KC.

What part of "dirtbag" or snake oil salesman does not apply in this case?

I'd swear you Jet trolls all attend a meeting before you head over here.

Always the same crap, always refuted by fact.

No solid starters? Left you with an empty pantry? The only years you didn't compete was the year you had injuries to something like 10 starters, and the year you were down to your 5th string QB because of injury.

The pantry was SO bare, that Mangini steps right in with a healthy roster and finishes 10-6.

I guess all of these players are scrubs:

Kerry Rhodes, Mike Nugent, Jonathan Vilma, Jerrico Cotchery, Erik Coleman, Derrick Ward, DeWayne Robertson, Victor Hobson, Santana Moss, LaMont Jordan and Kareem McKenzie?

And those are just the obvious ones, I don't follow the Jets regularly, there may be more that are up-and-coming players.

FAX
01-02-2008, 09:37 PM
Awesome. 12 posts away from 100!!!!

Mr. Skip Towne, here I come!!!

FAX

Extra Point
01-02-2008, 10:40 PM
Herm hasn't yet used Flava Flav as the timekeeper for making sure the O-plays are called.

"All of a sudden, you got that call in, just in the nick of time, man. Thanks!"

"Yeah, boy!!!"

EM31
01-03-2008, 06:34 AM
I'd swear you Jet trolls all attend a meeting before you head over here.

Always the same crap, always refuted by fact.

No solid starters? Left you with an empty pantry? The only years you didn't compete was the year you had injuries to something like 10 starters, and the year you were down to your 5th string QB because of injury.

The pantry was SO bare, that Mangini steps right in with a healthy roster and finishes 10-6.

I guess all of these players are scrubs:

Kerry Rhodes, Mike Nugent, Jonathan Vilma, Jerrico Cotchery, Erik Coleman, Derrick Ward, DeWayne Robertson, Victor Hobson, Santana Moss, LaMont Jordan and Kareem McKenzie?

And those are just the obvious ones, I don't follow the Jets regularly, there may be more that are up-and-coming players.
hahahaha.... that's funny.

Kerry Rhodes - Good player, that's one.

Erik Coleman - Scrub, can't make the starting team.

Mike Nugent???? - Herm gets credit for a kicker taken in the 2nd round? - Are you nuts?

Dewayne Robertson - Highest paid defensive tackle in in football last year if you exclude Pat Williams who was in a balloon year contract wise. #4 overall pick and a nearly-complete bust. Has played like a #4 pick in about four games out of sixty. The rest of the time he has been a complete bum. The only reason he is on the team has been the colossal cap hit we would take by cutting him. Do your homework next time.

Victor Hobson - Another first day pick who shares starting time with so-so free agents.

Santana Moss - was so great he got traded away for Laveranues Coles. Coles was a player who the Jets "brains trust" had let go for nothing two years before (quotation marks provided by me since I do not think there much brain involved in that trust). Santana Moss has done well in Washington. Soft player. Are you saying Herm was to blame for him not doing well with the Jets and leaving or it is to Herm's credit that he left and then got a career in Washington? Herm could never figure out how to get him to perform to his potential - That makes about strike six on your list but let's do carry on.

Jericho Cotchery - Poster child for a talented player who was showing it every day in practice but who got absolutely buried on the bench by Edwards. An almost criminal non-use of talent that was sitting right under his nose. Please see the comments made by and about Cotchery last year when he broke out for the Jets to see what a complete balls-up Edwards made of that situation. Cotchery is a brand of shame upon Herm.

Lamont Jordan - Most under-utilized backup in the history of the NFL. While Curtis Martin was being run into the ground by Edwards (any of this familiar?). An obviously talented and exlplosive backup was forced to walk. Jets got no compensation out of that. Great job Herm.

Kareem McKenzie - God yeah, the Bradway/Edwards brains trust was so smart that they let him get away in free-agrency with no compensation to the Jets. And to the cross-town Giants to boot. All of this while our offensive line was imploding. Our offensive line got just dismantled under Herman Edwards. Edwards didn't think enough of him to try and keep him under contract. How does Herm get credit here again?

Derrick Ward - Are you on CRACK???? Derrick Ward was in camp with the Jets and Edwards thought so little of him they put him on the practice squad while at the same time bringing in overpaid veteran scrubs like Derrick Blaylock and Kevin Barlow (that cost us a 3rd!!!)..... Guess what, the Giants claimed Ward and he has had a nice career while Barlow and Blaylock are out of football. Brilliant job again Herm. Missing talent that was right under your nose and instead going out onto the free agent market and being raped by the agent for a scrub.

Otter
01-03-2008, 07:01 AM
A little "Devil's Advocate" here...
....

Now the only gripe those people should have is that the wrong people are doing the rebuilding. If that's the case... they won't last much longer.

Can someone fill me in on this part of the prophecy comes true in case I need to run over the neighbors first born or something?

smittysbar
01-03-2008, 11:08 AM
hahahaha.... that's funny.

Kerry Rhodes - Good player, that's one.

Erik Coleman - Scrub, can't make the starting team.

Mike Nugent???? - Herm gets credit for a kicker taken in the 2nd round? - Are you nuts?

Dewayne Robertson - Highest paid defensive tackle in in football last year if you exclude Pat Williams who was in a balloon year contract wise. #4 overall pick and a nearly-complete bust. Has played like a #4 pick in about four games out of sixty. The rest of the time he has been a complete bum. The only reason he is on the team has been the colossal cap hit we would take by cutting him. Do your homework next time.

Victor Hobson - Another first day pick who shares starting time with so-so free agents.

Santana Moss - was so great he got traded away for Laveranues Coles. Coles was a player who the Jets "brains trust" had let go for nothing two years before (quotation marks provided by me since I do not think there much brain involved in that trust). Santana Moss has done well in Washington. Soft player. Are you saying Herm was to blame for him not doing well with the Jets and leaving or it is to Herm's credit that he left and then got a career in Washington? Herm could never figure out how to get him to perform to his potential - That makes about strike six on your list but let's do carry on.

Jericho Cotchery - Poster child for a talented player who was showing it every day in practice but who got absolutely buried on the bench by Edwards. An almost criminal non-use of talent that was sitting right under his nose. Please see the comments made by and about Cotchery last year when he broke out for the Jets to see what a complete balls-up Edwards made of that situation. Cotchery is a brand of shame upon Herm.

Lamont Jordan - Most under-utilized backup in the history of the NFL. While Curtis Martin was being run into the ground by Edwards (any of this familiar?). An obviously talented and exlplosive backup was forced to walk. Jets got no compensation out of that. Great job Herm.

Kareem McKenzie - God yeah, the Bradway/Edwards brains trust was so smart that they let him get away in free-agrency with no compensation to the Jets. And to the cross-town Giants to boot. All of this while our offensive line was imploding. Our offensive line got just dismantled under Herman Edwards. Edwards didn't think enough of him to try and keep him under contract. How does Herm get credit here again?

Derrick Ward - Are you on CRACK???? Derrick Ward was in camp with the Jets and Edwards thought so little of him they put him on the practice squad while at the same time bringing in overpaid veteran scrubs like Derrick Blaylock and Kevin Barlow (that cost us a 3rd!!!)..... Guess what, the Giants claimed Ward and he has had a nice career while Barlow and Blaylock are out of football. Brilliant job again Herm. Missing talent that was right under your nose and instead going out onto the free agent market and being raped by the agent for a scrub.

God it's funny. If you were reading these posts, you could easily plug in names of KC players and still be correct.

I think this guy nails it pretty good.

jettio
01-03-2008, 12:15 PM
That Jets team that was good enough to win a wild card game handily (and we did). The team also had enough talent and a schedule to be a 12-4 or an 11-5 team. Given those two things then why should anyone be grateful that the head coach only managed to back us in to a 9-7 season record with some notable down the stretch losses to indifferent teams? Does it make everything OK then if the Wannstadt Dolphins also manage to lose two very improbable games to finish up so that the Jets end up first in a three way tie at 9-7 and win the division on the third tie-breaker? Suure... great coaching job be Hermn on that one!

If Edwards had taken over the Cowboys this year they would probably be 8-8 or 9-7 with an anemic offense. But not playing Arena Football!!!

Herm coached not to lose and his teams were consistenty unprepared for what they were going to be facing on Sundays. I see he has improved a bunch since then.

How was your playoff game last year?

But by all means please tell me what players Herm has developed or which picks were Herman Edwards picks that ended up in the pro bowl or even as solid starters in this league. We saw none of that in New York. None. We saw a boat load of over-the-hill secondary free-agents acquisition, many with personal ties to Edwards. We generally overpaid massively for these scrubs who then underperformed to a similar degree. How about you guys with free-agents? How has Herm's eye for talent been there?

The Jets were a taleneted team and not an old team when Herman Edwards inherited them. The 21 mile marathoner Parcells has a habit of leaving teams like that. Five years later, after Edwards left we had holes everywhere and were a very old and untalented team. In other word he drove us (presided over) a drop into the toilet and did zero about restocking the pantry before he skipped town in the dead of night....

Edwards had a nearly five year unbroken record of allowing (read directing) criticism to fall on the heads of anyone and anybody not named Herman Edwards.... Tossing 'em under the bus was a regular event with this guy. Players, assistant coaches, coordinators, the press... anyone where he thought he could get away with shifting any blame from St. Herman.

I suppose you have seen none of that type behavior in KC.

What part of "dirtbag" or snake oil salesman does not apply in this case?

Vinny Testaverde started that year and the team did not do so well.

Pennington takes over and the team becomes a playoff winner.

Can't blame Herm for giving Vinny a chance, considering his resume and the fact that he kept playing until he was 44 y/o.

Can't blame Herm for giving the groomed 1-round draft pick his chance.

Herm has gotten good results when his QB is healthy and even made the playoffs two years when the #1 QB had injuries.

This last season is the only one where he had a poor record without a significant injury at QB. Even thojugh the 2007 Chiefs had serious talent issues on the OL, they almost made it to 5-3 before Favre made some plays and LJ got hurt.

Herm Edwards can be the one to win playoff games in KC. Even when he does, the same know-it-all crybabies that never played football will still cry.

Logical
01-03-2008, 02:39 PM
He always says he wants it simple for the players to understand, but I think it so he can understand.

That is not funny, quit it! :cuss:

The sad part is the value pick at #5 is a CB, the good news is we do need a cornerback.

Logical
01-03-2008, 02:47 PM
Don't get me wrong, Mr. Zouk. I actually admire your loyalty to Herm.

Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder if "The Plan" will actually work. Of course, we first have to become the worst team in history and the laughingstock of the league and force our best players to consider suicide, but what the heck?

FAX

I am sure Tony G should consider retiring now so the team does not f*ck up his chance at making the HOF.

Logical
01-03-2008, 02:52 PM
A little "Devil's Advocate" here...

Haven't people been saying for years that we need to bottom out before we can really get where we wanna go? The same people that were sick of "mediocrity"? Wailing about how bouncing around from 8-8 to 11-5 wasn't ever going to get us anywhere?

Well, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Now, maybe the people that wanted a complete rebuild aren't completely happy with the way it's being done... but it is, in fact, being done.

Unfortunately, (or fortunately, I guess, depending on how you look at it) I don't think it was planned. I think Carl and Herm tried to do it while keeping us competitve, and it all just fell apart.

Now the only gripe those people should have is that the wrong people are doing the rebuilding. If that's the case... they won't last much longer.

Ding, ding, ding exactly, we needed to get rid of at least Carl, Gunther and Solari, probably Herm as well, hey the idiot cannot coach on game day, and I am not completely sold on his drafting ability either. We got the spot in the draft but not the needed house cleaning.

HemiEd
01-03-2008, 03:27 PM
The sad part is the value pick at #5 is a CB, the good news is we do need a cornerback.

You know, I could live with CB at that spot the more I think about it. We are just so LINE POOR on both sides of the ball, I have hard time looking past OL.

FAX
01-03-2008, 03:29 PM
Holes everywhere.

Round ones, square ones, and those crazy parallelograms, too.

FAX

HemiEd
01-03-2008, 03:29 PM
We got the spot in the draft but not the needed house cleaning.

Yep more of the same, Herm getting rid of Dick's guys, wish he would have at least canned one Dick.

StcChief
01-03-2008, 03:50 PM
Yep more of the same, Herm getting rid of Dick's guys, wish he would have at least canned one Dick.
Curl get's his shot 1-2 years if Brodie or other QB doesn't develop he will be gone or leave with Herm.

more suffering by fans.

ChiefsCountry
01-03-2008, 03:52 PM
Dewayne Robertson - Highest paid defensive tackle in in football last year if you exclude Pat Williams who was in a balloon year contract wise. #4 overall pick and a nearly-complete bust. Has played like a #4 pick in about four games out of sixty. The rest of the time he has been a complete bum. The only reason he is on the team has been the colossal cap hit we would take by cutting him. Do your homework next time.

A cover 2 DT trying to play the 3-4. That could be the main reasons why he hasnt played well.

Mecca
01-03-2008, 03:56 PM
He really wasn't that good under Herm either...that pick is one of his blunders. That one and Bryan Thomas who was a first rounder who basically sat on the bench the entire time Herm was there.

siberian khatru
01-03-2008, 04:01 PM
hahahaha.... that's funny.

Kerry Rhodes - Good player, that's one.

Erik Coleman - Scrub, can't make the starting team.

Mike Nugent???? - Herm gets credit for a kicker taken in the 2nd round? - Are you nuts?

Dewayne Robertson - Highest paid defensive tackle in in football last year if you exclude Pat Williams who was in a balloon year contract wise. #4 overall pick and a nearly-complete bust. Has played like a #4 pick in about four games out of sixty. The rest of the time he has been a complete bum. The only reason he is on the team has been the colossal cap hit we would take by cutting him. Do your homework next time.

Victor Hobson - Another first day pick who shares starting time with so-so free agents.

Santana Moss - was so great he got traded away for Laveranues Coles. Coles was a player who the Jets "brains trust" had let go for nothing two years before (quotation marks provided by me since I do not think there much brain involved in that trust). Santana Moss has done well in Washington. Soft player. Are you saying Herm was to blame for him not doing well with the Jets and leaving or it is to Herm's credit that he left and then got a career in Washington? Herm could never figure out how to get him to perform to his potential - That makes about strike six on your list but let's do carry on.

Jericho Cotchery - Poster child for a talented player who was showing it every day in practice but who got absolutely buried on the bench by Edwards. An almost criminal non-use of talent that was sitting right under his nose. Please see the comments made by and about Cotchery last year when he broke out for the Jets to see what a complete balls-up Edwards made of that situation. Cotchery is a brand of shame upon Herm.

Lamont Jordan - Most under-utilized backup in the history of the NFL. While Curtis Martin was being run into the ground by Edwards (any of this familiar?). An obviously talented and exlplosive backup was forced to walk. Jets got no compensation out of that. Great job Herm.

Kareem McKenzie - God yeah, the Bradway/Edwards brains trust was so smart that they let him get away in free-agrency with no compensation to the Jets. And to the cross-town Giants to boot. All of this while our offensive line was imploding. Our offensive line got just dismantled under Herman Edwards. Edwards didn't think enough of him to try and keep him under contract. How does Herm get credit here again?

Derrick Ward - Are you on CRACK???? Derrick Ward was in camp with the Jets and Edwards thought so little of him they put him on the practice squad while at the same time bringing in overpaid veteran scrubs like Derrick Blaylock and Kevin Barlow (that cost us a 3rd!!!)..... Guess what, the Giants claimed Ward and he has had a nice career while Barlow and Blaylock are out of football. Brilliant job again Herm. Missing talent that was right under your nose and instead going out onto the free agent market and being raped by the agent for a scrub.

After reading that, I feel like I just sat through the football equivalent of "Hostel."

HemiEd
01-03-2008, 04:06 PM
After reading that, I feel like I just sat through the football equivalent of "Hostel."

It kinda takes the sizzle out of what they (Herm-Carl) are selling, doesn't it?

Mecca
01-03-2008, 04:07 PM
I just wonder where this idea Herm is a great talent guy comes from..

Vilma was a good pick, now he looks like garbage in a defense he isn't suited to be in.

Kerry Rhodes is a great pick.

Erik Coleman is good for a 5th round pick.

Moss was a solid pick and then well they turned that into a blunder...

A lot of his other picks aren't impressive...and I don't believe Cotchery ever got on the field till Herm was gone.

ChiefsCountry
01-03-2008, 04:08 PM
He really wasn't that good under Herm either...that pick is one of his blunders. That one and Bryan Thomas who was a first rounder who basically sat on the bench the entire time Herm was there.

A DT doesnt dominate their first couple of years normally.

Mecca
01-03-2008, 04:09 PM
When you trade 2 first rounders to move up for a guy and take him in the top 5, he damn sure better be good in a hurry.

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 04:09 PM
After reading that, I feel like I just sat through the football equivalent of "Hostel."

Sounds like we found Mecca's Jet fan twin brother.

All Jet players suck.

Everyone else's players are better.

Skip Towne
01-03-2008, 04:17 PM
Awesome. 12 posts away from 100!!!!

Mr. Skip Towne, here I come!!!

FAX
Congrats on a great thread FAX. Yesterday afternoon it was next to last on the front page and hadn't had a post on it for nearly three hours. It faced certain doom. So I posted reply #53 and brought it back to the top where it caught fire again. You get the win but I get a save.

Mecca
01-03-2008, 04:20 PM
Sounds like we found Mecca's Jet fan twin brother.

All Jet players suck.

Everyone else's players are better.

Most of his points are correct though.....

He was even nice enough to not mention the Bryan Thomas pick.

FAX
01-03-2008, 05:23 PM
Congrats on a great thread FAX. Yesterday afternoon it was next to last on the front page and hadn't had a post on it for nearly three hours. It faced certain doom. So I posted reply #53 and brought it back to the top where it caught fire again. You get the win but I get a save.

Thanks, Mr. Skip Towne. And a special thanks to all the Planeteers who made this thread a success. I also want to thank my mom and dad, the beautiful and witty Mrs. FAX, and all the little words too numerous to mention.

How far am I behind you now, anyway?

FAX

Skip Towne
01-03-2008, 05:30 PM
Thanks, Mr. Skip Towne. And a special thanks to all the Planeteers who made this thread a success. I also want to thank my mom and dad, the beautiful and witty Mrs. FAX, and all the little words too numerous to mention.

How far am I behind you now, anyway?

FAX
I'm always glad to help out. I've lost track of the count but I think it is about 184.

BigRedChief
01-03-2008, 05:33 PM
Did you read the Gretz article from today? It doesn't sound like player acquisition control has been taken away. Even if it was, Herm sucks balls.
After watching the presser today I'm even more convinced what my source told me is true. King Carl has always said he has the final say on player decisions. Buck stops here BS. I ask for input from many good people but I'm the one who has the final say. I'm the one responsible.

Today King Carl says it's a Chiefs decision. I'm just one voice of many.

King Carl says the Chiefs are rebuilding the team Herm's way. This is Herm's team.

No big name/splashy FA's. No over the hill stop gap players. We are rebuilding through the draft. We are going to play young players.


Maybe our team will indeed rise from the ashes if King Carl doesn't have the final say anymore. This could all be One Arrowhead drive PR BS and King Carl is still pulling the strings and has final say on players but if it is all PR BS why would Herm just sit there and say nothing when King Carl is saying it's Herm's team. I'm just one voice.

It's not the best scenerio of King Carl being shown the door. I'm sure he will try to meddle but I'm going to choose to believe that the emporer has been proven to not have on any clothes and a new day has begun in the Chiefs front office. HALLELUAH PBJ

FAX
01-03-2008, 05:35 PM
I'm always glad to help out. I've lost track of the count but I think it is about 184.

184 behind you???? Dang. That seems like a lot.

Are you counting the ones from the Star Board, or something?

FAX

BigRedChief
01-03-2008, 05:36 PM
Awesome. 12 posts away from 100!!!!

Mr. Skip Towne, here I come!!!

FAX
How many will this make for ya?

BigRedChief
01-03-2008, 05:41 PM
I'm always glad to help out. I've lost track of the count but I think it is about 184.
actually it's 117
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/search.php?searchid=190245

I'm gaining on you. 47.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/search.php?searchid=190246

fax is at....18
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/search.php?searchid=190247

FAX
01-03-2008, 05:44 PM
Ah ... so I'm only 99 behind Mr. Skip Towne. Thanks, Mr. BigRedChief.

That's a lot better.

FAX