PDA

View Full Version : Can Herm build an offense?


Count Alex's Wins
01-03-2008, 07:29 PM
Herm is dumping the old system, hiring a new coordinator and will look for new talent starting this offseason.

Do you have faith he can get the job done?

MichaelH
01-03-2008, 07:43 PM
no

ptlyon
01-03-2008, 07:46 PM
**** no. he proved that to me the second game of '06 when he did not even throw it into the end zone at the Donkeys with 11 seconds left on the clock. He opted for a field goal with 3 downs remaining. He SUckS as a HC.

Halfcan
01-03-2008, 07:53 PM
Herm will be known as the MOST Hated Coach in Chiefs history.

Chiefnj2
01-03-2008, 07:57 PM
He can build an offense that won't rank any higher than 20 in points scored. It won't be enough.

RustShack
01-03-2008, 07:58 PM
Hopefully he lets our new OC build it.

Sully
01-03-2008, 08:01 PM
I second that. My hope is that he is smart enough to hire a guy who can build an offense... but Herm building it? No.

Bane
01-03-2008, 08:46 PM
NO

Deberg_1990
01-03-2008, 08:47 PM
Ill put it this way:

Could Vermeil build a defense??

Count Alex's Wins
01-03-2008, 08:48 PM
Ill put it this way:

Could Vermeil build a defense??

OH SNAP

Column fodder!

chiefforlife
01-03-2008, 08:54 PM
Herm, NO! Our only hope is that he hires someone who can and that he lets them.

talastan
01-03-2008, 09:00 PM
I'm undecided. I haven't seen anything to prove he can build an offense, but if the rumor of Peterson forcing Solari on Herm than I would like to give him (actually the new OC) the chance to come in and show us what they've got.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2008, 09:06 PM
He has drafted some pretty good offensive players in the past (i.e. Leon Washington, bowe is working out alright, and Crothety), but the Jets never really had an offensive line when he was there. The only way he can succeed is if he designs an offense that can protect croyle

el borracho
01-03-2008, 09:30 PM
I'm sure he can build an offense but I don't believe Herm can build a top ten offense. I'm not sure he could build a top fifteen offense.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-03-2008, 09:32 PM
He has drafted some pretty good offensive players in the past (i.e. Leon Washington, bowe is working out alright, and Crothety), but the Jets never really had an offensive line when he was there. The only way he can succeed is if he designs an offense that can protect croyle

Leon Washington was the player the Jets picked with Kansas City's fourth rounder in '06.

Bill Parcells
01-03-2008, 09:33 PM
He has drafted some pretty good offensive players in the past (i.e. Leon Washington, bowe is working out alright, and Crothety), but the Jets never really had an offensive line when he was there. The only way he can succeed is if he designs an offense that can protect croyle
He didn't draft Leon Washington. the Jets traded Herm to the Chiefs for him. and Cotcherry never played until he left for KC. he always praised him during TC, but that was about it.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2008, 09:33 PM
f*ck, i knew that. wow, herm is worse than i thought...

TEX
01-03-2008, 09:59 PM
I'm sure he can build an offense but I don't believe Herm can build a top ten offense. I'm not sure he could build a top fifteen offense.


I'm quite sure he can't.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2008, 10:02 PM
ok, reading thru some of the quotes from herm. ..

NO, he can't do it. he is F*CKING DEE DEE DEE RETARDED

milkman
01-03-2008, 11:36 PM
Hell no.

You know what's scary?

Even Gunther freakin' Cunningham has a better grasp of offense than Herman ****ing Edwards.

I don't believe that Herman ****ing Edwards could build a Pee Wee League offense.

HonestChieffan
01-03-2008, 11:46 PM
Since he will be the head coach no matter how much i may think hes and idiot and he will pick the OC, I'll vote undecided and hope very very much that he and his staff can turn this thing around.

Extra Point
01-03-2008, 11:57 PM
OH THNAP

Column fodder!
fyp

cdcox
01-03-2008, 11:57 PM
I'm not sure yet that Herm is clear on what the purpose of an offense is.

smittysbar
01-04-2008, 12:41 AM
Well I think he has shown what he can do with an offense..........destroy it

Bill Parcells
01-04-2008, 12:55 AM
This is the Chiefs offensive rankings since 2002


2002: #1 points / #4 yards
2003: #1 points / #2 yards
2004: #2 points / #1 yards
2005: #6 points / #1 yards
---------------------------> Herm hired
2006: #15 points / #16 yards
2007: #31 points / #29 yards

Count Alex's Wins
01-04-2008, 01:03 AM
And here are the Jets offensive rankings since 2002


2002: #15 points / #22 yards
2003: #23 points / #19 yards
2004: #17 points / #12 yards
2005: #29 points / #31 yards
---------------------------> Mangina hired
2006: #18 points / #25 yards
2007: #25 points / #25 yards

Mangina = Herm

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Bill Parcells
01-04-2008, 01:08 AM
And here are the Jets offensive rankings since 2002



Mangina = Herm

HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Last time I checked this was a Herm thread, right?

Herm = finished after next year. circle completed.

And there is NO DRASTIC difference in there, is there? LMAO

Count Alex's Wins
01-04-2008, 01:14 AM
Herm = finished after next year. circle completed.


Don't tease me.

FAX
01-04-2008, 01:19 AM
This is the Chiefs offensive rankings since 2002

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2002: #1 points / #4 yards
2003: #1 points / #2 yards
2004: #2 points / #1 yards
2005: #6 points / #1 yards
---------------------------> Herm hired
2006: #15 points / #16 yards
2007: #31 points / #29 yards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ROFL

That Herm guy really knows his offense, doesn't he?

FAX

smittysbar
01-04-2008, 01:22 AM
Who's the 7 morons that actually voted yes.......

philfree
01-04-2008, 06:58 AM
Who's the 7 morons that actually voted yes.......

I voted yes just so I wouldn't be part of the crying PPL.

PhilFree:arrow:

KCChiefsFan88
01-04-2008, 02:46 PM
That is like asking can Athan write a coherent article.

Mr. Laz
01-04-2008, 02:51 PM
doubtful


imo it's key that he gets an OC that can build it for him.

FAX
01-04-2008, 02:53 PM
Okay ... I have another question for the more enlightened and informed ... what was the OC breakdown in those years?

2002: #15 points / #22 yards
2003: #23 points / #19 yards
2004: #17 points / #12 yards
2005: #29 points / #31 yards

FAX

Chiefnj2
01-04-2008, 02:59 PM
Okay ... I have another question for the more enlightened and informed ... what was the OC breakdown in those years?

2002: #15 points / #22 yards
2003: #23 points / #19 yards
2004: #17 points / #12 yards
2005: #29 points / #31 yards

FAX
Hackett first three and Heimerdinger in 2005.

xbarretx
01-04-2008, 03:06 PM
Who's the 7 morons that actually voted yes.......

He can............

by picking an OC who can thus Herm can indirectly build an Offense ;)

HemiEd
01-04-2008, 03:17 PM
Hell no.

You know what's scary?

Even Gunther freakin' Cunningham has a better grasp of offense than Herman ****ing Edwards.

I don't believe that Herman ****ing Edwards could build a Pee Wee League offense.

It sucks that we have HC that makes us miss the Gunther disaster.

StcChief
01-04-2008, 03:18 PM
Yes with help from a REAL OC otherwise no.
Carl's meddling will FU that.

Chiefnj2
01-04-2008, 03:22 PM
Herm can't even build a defense.

bogey
01-04-2008, 03:22 PM
He has focused on D and now he'll focus on O. Next year will be a different team.

penguinz
01-04-2008, 03:41 PM
I voted undecided because I want to see who the OC is first.

Mr. Laz
01-04-2008, 03:43 PM
I voted undecided because I want to see who the OC is first.
then you answer would be "no" because you expect the OC to build it for him.

Dylan
01-04-2008, 04:04 PM
Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown.

Logical
01-04-2008, 04:31 PM
ROFL

That Herm guy really knows his offense, doesn't he?

FAXYou know what else Mr. FAX I bet Time of Possession was far better under Vermiel/Saunders than they have been under Herm/Solari either year.

FAX
01-04-2008, 04:54 PM
You know what else Mr. FAX I bet Time of Possession was far better under Vermiel/Saunders than they have been under Herm/Solari either year.

I believe you are correct. I think we researched that statistic around mid-season or thereabouts, Mr. Dr. Doom. It turned out that the circus did a pretty darn good job of keeping the football away from the enemy. Far better than our fabulous, new, simplified offense. Some form of bizarre magic, probably.

When Mr. cdcox titty graphed the comparison, it appeared as though the poor girl had blown a tire.

FAX

Logical
01-04-2008, 05:23 PM
I believe you are correct. I think we researched that statistic around mid-season or thereabouts, Mr. Dr. Doom. It turned out that the circus did a pretty darn good job of keeping the football away from the enemy. Far better than our fabulous, new, simplified offense. Some form of bizarre magic, probably.

When Mr. cdcox titty graphed the comparison, it appeared as though the poor girl had blown a tire.

FAX

This proves two things

1. The old defense was short on talent and changing the offense wasn't the reason.

2. The new offense is hopeless in terms of TOP when all you have is 3 and outs all game long.

penguinz
01-04-2008, 05:26 PM
then you answer would be "no" because you expect the OC to build it for him.Wrong dumbass. Do not put words in my mouth. If Herm hires a competent OC that can put in place a good O then Herm did help build the O by hiring the right guy.

Mr. Laz
01-04-2008, 05:27 PM
Wrong dumbass. .
wow

keg in kc
01-04-2008, 10:38 PM
How to answer this.

Herm is a defensive coach. He won't be building an offense, so I suppose by default the answer is "no".

In any event, his job will be to find a coordinator and staff that he trusts, to acquire players to run whatever offense they decide to put in place, and then stay the hell out of it after that. That's what he should do. He needs to take a note from Tony Dungy in Indianapolis and not let his philosophy get in the way of what it takes to win in the league.

Whether he can rebuild in the 1-2 years he'll have left to do, I don't know. I think it's a tall order. Offenses generally take longer to coalesce than defenses, and in terms of personnel, without even taking the reality of a new system into account, the Chiefs have a very long way to go. They have to rebuild their offensive line (and build depth for that line), they have to find a receiver to play opposite Bowe, they have to learn if LJ's '07 was a fluke or not, they have to see what Croyle can do starting 16 games, or if he can even do so (huge mistake that that wasn't done this year...).

He'll have to do all of this while at the same time filling glaring holes on both the defense and special teams. It's clear we need two new starting corners, it's clear we need at least one linebacker, and we're probably not done with the defensive line, unless Turk or Tank make strides. We need a returner and, yet again, we need a kicker.

That's a lot to fix in one year.

Which is what we were saying last year, and, honestly, it doesn't feel like a whole lot changed, although that may just be the sting of a 4-12 season talking. This is the hard part about going young, I guess, free agents Carl-style are instant gratification, while going with the draft means 2-3 years of development for most players as they learn how to be NFL players.

Anyway, all of that plays into whether or not Herm can build an offense. Can he draft good offensive players? Can he find a coordinator that can successfully integrate those players into a cohesive, successful unit?

In the time he has, my guess is "probably not". He wasted two years on trying to maintain the leftovers from 2005, and I think he has too far to go to do it before he's fired.

So the next question is, can the coach after Herm build an offense with Herm's players?

whoman69
01-05-2008, 08:31 AM
Herm got what he wanted in shitcanning the coaches to provide a scapegoat. Like my drill sergeant said in basic training, "When you point fingers at others, you have 4 fingers pointing back at you." Solari and staff tried to build the offense in the image that Herm wanted. It was never going to be successful to have a smash mouth offense with a line that was built for a finess game. It was never going to work when you give up on 3rd and 8 or longer by running a draw play every time. It was never going to work when it was so predictable to figure out when our team was going to run or pass.
Herm is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Carl let the defensive talent fall off during Vermeil's era and has let the offensive talent go to waste under Edwards. If you're going to rebuid, don't let the guys who let the foundation go to pot be the ones in charge.

TEX
01-05-2008, 08:38 AM
Wrong dumbass. Do not put words in my mouth. If Herm hires a competent OC that can put in place a good O then Herm did help build the O by hiring the right guy.

Then did he help ruin the latest one by hiring the wrong OC? Or does he still get a free pass? :hmmm:

KC Tattoo
01-05-2008, 09:14 AM
Obviously I'm in the minority to vote yes, I must be a moron. I like that he is going to build it around Brodie. Brodie given a O-line can be successfull. No QB in the league would have found success behind this putrid O-line this year let alone a first year starter. The playcalling was atrosious(sp) f^cking horiable. It all depends on how well our O-line blocks but yes I think Herm can find a good OC and make strides in 08 and build for future success with Brodie as QB. It's a tall order, I have faith though that it can be done.

Brodie is going to have this offseason to study tape and look at his mistakes and what he has to do to make himself a better QB. Brodie is a competiter and is going to make himself a better QB. He is going to have this offseason to work with D-Bowe and get a connection with him. D-Bowe is going to be a better WR next year as well. LJ hopefully will be back to form and with Kolby Smith we have a good 3rd down back. No matter what system they put in it all starts up front with blocking so the question is can we get the beef up front to allow the QB and RBs be successfull?

I don't totally trust Herm cus he hasn't earned it. I said before that I want to like Herm and I am going to give him the benifit of doupt to do so. I do like Brodie and want him to have the players around him so he can be successfull. Look at all the good teams they have O-lines that protect the QB and or run the football. The best teams can do both but they all have good O-lines to make it happen.

TEX
01-05-2008, 09:31 AM
Obviously I'm in the minority to vote yes, I must be a moron. I like that he is going to build it around Brodie. Brodie given a O-line can be successfull. No QB in the league would have found success behind this putrid O-line this year let alone a first year starter. The playcalling was atrosious(sp) f^cking horiable. It all depends on how well our O-line blocks but yes I think Herm can find a good OC and make strides in 08 and build for future success with Brodie as QB. It's a tall order, I have faith though that it can be done.

Brodie is going to have this offseason to study tape and look at his mistakes and what he has to do to make himself a better QB. Brodie is a competiter and is going to make himself a better QB. He is going to have this offseason to work with D-Bowe and get a connection with him. D-Bowe is going to be a better WR next year as well. LJ hopefully will be back to form and with Kolby Smith we have a good 3rd down back. No matter what system they put in it all starts up front with blocking so the question is can we get the beef up front to allow the QB and RBs be successfull?

I don't totally trust Herm cus he hasn't earned it. I said before that I want to like Herm and I am going to give him the benifit of doupt to do so. I do like Brodie and want him to have the players around him so he can be successfull. Look at all the good teams they have O-lines that protect the QB and or run the football. The best teams can do both but they all have good O-lines to make it happen.

There is no doubt that Herm can look back ans PREACH about what needs to be done - and about what he is GOING to do. But there is total doubt that he can actually ACHIEVE it. He's a double-talking fool looking to extend his ride. A good coach he most certainly is not.

KC Tattoo
01-05-2008, 09:36 AM
There is no doubt that Herm can look back ans PREACH about what needs to be done - and about what he is GOING to do. But there is total doubt that he can actually ACHIEVE it. He's a double-talking fool and is not a good coach.

And I agree. This is very difficult cus I think Brodie can do a good job with better Coaching and a team around him but Herm is a basket case and he has lost any respect or trust that you need for a Head Coach.

Skip Towne
01-05-2008, 09:50 AM
No, Herm is in the wrong business.

mlyonsd
01-05-2008, 10:51 AM
Herm should be a motivational speaker living in a van, DOWN BY THE RIVER.

CoMoChief
01-05-2008, 10:57 AM
Ill put it this way:

Could Vermeil build a defense??

He did in STL.

Herm never could build an offense, not even in NY.

banyon
01-05-2008, 11:07 AM
Wrong dumbass. Do not put words in my mouth. If Herm hires a competent OC that can put in place a good O then Herm did help build the O by hiring the right guy.

Wait, I thought you were leaving forever. Does this mean that you are coming back forever?

Bill Parcells
01-05-2008, 11:19 AM
Heard Jim Miller say on NFL radio that Hackett is traveling to 1 Arrowhead way to be interviewed for the vacant OC position. man, what a team him and Dick Curl will be.

If Hackett gets hired I will guarantee that Pennington and Coles arrive in KC shortly afterwards. not for the number 1 pick since it's a top 5 pick now, but somehow some way Hermy will get it done.

He's starting to finally build the offense that he wants. back to the future.

acasas4
01-05-2008, 11:28 AM
Heard Jim Miller say on NFL radio that Hackett is traveling to 1 Arrowhead way to be interviewed for the vacant OC position. man, what a team him and Dick Curl will be.

If Hackett gets hired I will guarantee that Pennington and Coles arrive in KC shortly afterwards. not for the number 1 pick since it's a top 5 pick now, but somehow some way Hermy will get it done.

He's starting to finally build the offense that he wants. back to the future.


God no. Please help us.

KC Tattoo
01-05-2008, 11:32 AM
Heard Jim Miller say on NFL radio that Hackett is traveling to 1 Arrowhead way to be interviewed for the vacant OC position. man, what a team him and Dick Curl will be.

If Hackett gets hired I will guarantee that Pennington and Coles arrive in KC shortly afterwards. not for the number 1 pick since it's a top 5 pick now, but somehow some way Hermy will get it done.

He's starting to finally build the offense that he wants. back to the future.

If it's Hackett then I will quickly change my vote to NO!! Herm has said he wants his QB from the draft and that he likes Brodie cus no other QB this year has impressed him. He also said they would not trade a draft pick for a QB no matter what & Pennington is under contract with Jets for 08 unless they cut him. Getting Hacket would be a huge mistake and he will not be good for us to rebuild this Offense. Just talk of Hackett makes me sick, can't we get someone from outside of this organization thought process? Can't we get some fresh new ideas and not the same ol same ol?

Count Alex's Wins
01-05-2008, 12:27 PM
Heard Jim Miller say on NFL radio that Hackett is traveling to 1 Arrowhead way to be interviewed for the vacant OC position.

It's just a token interview. He's not being seriously considered.

Zouk
01-05-2008, 12:29 PM
I think this is impossible. The Bucs have a game tomorrow, and Herm is currently in Bristol, CT doing ESPN stuff.

FringeNC
01-05-2008, 01:01 PM
Unless Herm allows himself to be Dungified, he can't build a high-powered offense.

To have a high-powered offense, you have to be willing to take risks. Remember when we hired Vermeil, his talking point was that he didn't want the game to be decided by one play in the fourth quarter? Herm lives for that stuff.

If you want to score a lot of points, you have to take a lot of risks.

It's funny -- these talking points put forward by Herm and Zouk and Gretz that personnel dictated the fact that we had to play not-to-lose football. Tell that the Kansas Jayhawks. In fact, the opposite is true -- if you are out-manned, you have to fool the defense even more because otherwise you will get 3-and-outed all game long -- like we did all through the season.

Herm coaches scared, and scared coaches don't produce high-powered offenses.