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View Full Version : State your position, for the record. STH the problem?


OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 09:29 PM
Time to get everyone on record.

There are some folks around here intent on telling STH how to spend their money.

That STH's are to blame for the state of the franchise. It's the fault of STH's that Carl Peterson is still in charge down at 1 Arrowhead Drive.

Don't hold back, tell us how you feel.

Personally, I think no different of someone who chooses not to, or doesn't have the money to be a STH. That's a personal decision, what you do with your money is none of my business, IMO.

Fans are fans, whether they make a financial commitment to the franchise or not. I don't think that it's anyone's place to belittle a group of fans because of the financial commitment or lack thereof towards their team.

This is a no-holds barred thread. Be honest.

unlurking
01-03-2008, 09:32 PM
STH = Season Ticket Holder?

My position is to blame people who have to turn everything into an acronym (PWHTTEIAA), NTTIAWWT.

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 09:32 PM
STH = Season Ticket Holder?

My position is to blame people who have to turn everything into an acronym (PWHTTEIAA), NTTIAWWT.


LMAO

Yes, Season Ticket Holder.

Sully
01-03-2008, 09:41 PM
No, they aren't.

signed
--a STH

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 09:42 PM
No, they aren't.

signed
--a STH

Care to go into detail?

Does it piss you off that people are trying to tell you how to spend YOUR money?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Guru
01-03-2008, 09:44 PM
It is not the season ticket holder's fault. But they do have a lot of power if they choose to use it.

One thing though, if you are a STH and you say you are not going to renew, then stand behind your words and DON'T.

Follow Joe's example.

Buehler445
01-03-2008, 09:45 PM
Absolutely not.

Season Ticket Holders are not to blame. An organization that bases itself on loyalty is the problem.

Without fans, this team doesn't exist.

It should not fall to driving away fans before changes are made. It is completely asenine. Evaluation should occur based on performance not loyalty.

Frankly, I don't think it will make any difference. From what I've seen, Carl is the GM come hell or high water. Carl focuses on money, but I'm not sure Clark does. There are lots of dudes out there that can make money. Dudesthat aren't bashed in the local media and hated by fans. From what I can tell it is all about loyalty.

I'm a n00b. If you think I'm wrong, I probably am.

Sully
01-03-2008, 09:47 PM
Lamar Hunt stood by Steadman for how many years while there was an empty stadium?

I don't know how far Clark is gonna stry from his dad, but so far I'm unimpressed. It seems that he's gonna be loyal to a fault, as well, which hurts. But that also probably means that regardless of what the fans think, he's gonna do what he wants.
Besides, the tickets are only a small portion of the money the team makes anyway, if I remember correctly.

L.A. Chieffan
01-03-2008, 09:47 PM
Fans are assholes. They keep buying stuff keeping our team shitty. Dumbasses

BigRedChief
01-03-2008, 09:47 PM
It's a personal decision. It's my money and I'll do with it what I want. Personally, I don't think a half empty stadium will get King Carl out of here. He's here for 2 more years regardless of what we do with our money.

I don't think I'm a better fan than a non STH because I'm spending $3K a year on tickets and they are not. Again it's a personal decision.

Guru
01-03-2008, 09:49 PM
It's a personal decision. It's my money and I'll do with it what I want. Personally, I don't think a half empty stadium will get King Carl out of here. He's here for 2 more years regardless of what we do with our money.

I don't think I'm a better fan than a non STH because I'm spending $3K a year on tickets and they are not. Again it's a personal decision.
Florida vacation dude. :)

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 09:49 PM
It is not the season ticket holder's fault. But they do have a lot of power if they choose to use it.

One thing though, if you are a STH and you say you are not going to renew, then stand behind your words and DON'T.

Follow Joe's example.

I think they have a lot less power than some are giving them credit for.

I've told this to Joe before, I respect his decision. It's HIS money and it's HIS time. Not mine.

But I can also tell you this:

They aren't crying in their Luxury Boxes down at Arrowhead because he's gone.

Buehler445
01-03-2008, 09:52 PM
I think they have a lot less power than some are giving them credit for.

I've told this to Joe before, I respect his decision. It's HIS money and it's HIS time. Not mine.

But I can also tell you this:

They aren't crying in their Luxury Boxes down at Arrowhead because he's gone.

If MOST of them quit, it would make noise. But 1 STH can't do shit. Kinda like voting. YOUR vote doesn't mean shit, but voters in mass have power.

Guru
01-03-2008, 09:53 PM
I think they have a lot less power than some are giving them credit for.

I've told this to Joe before, I respect his decision. It's HIS money and it's HIS time. Not mine.

But I can also tell you this:

They aren't crying in their Luxury Boxes down at Arrowhead because he's gone.
Oh I agree. It would take A TON of STHs canceling and A TON of fans resisting the temptation to purchase.

It will never happen and we all know that.

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 09:54 PM
Lamar Hunt stood by Steadman for how many years while there was an empty stadium?

I don't know how far Clark is gonna stry from his dad, but so far I'm unimpressed. It seems that he's gonna be loyal to a fault, as well, which hurts. But that also probably means that regardless of what the fans think, he's gonna do what he wants.
Besides, the tickets are only a small portion of the money the team makes anyway, if I remember correctly.

Funny you bring that up.

Vlad is on his high horse in another thread calling out STH's as the problem.

Yet he discloses that he was a STH between 1977 and 1989.

So it's perfectly fine for him to sit at Arrowhead for 12 years without "sending a message," it's wrong of current STH's to do the same.

Bit hypocritical, eh?

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 09:57 PM
Oh I agree. It would take A TON of STHs canceling and A TON of fans resisting the temptation to purchase.

It will never happen and we all know that.

Well, the rational among us know that.

unlurking
01-03-2008, 09:58 PM
Fans are assholes. They keep buying stuff keeping our team shitty. Dumbasses
Yep, the base needs to be rebuilt. They need to be quiet.

el borracho
01-03-2008, 09:58 PM
In the 90s I went 8 years without eating red meat and guess what- they still killed the cows.

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 09:59 PM
In the 90s I went 8 years without eating red meat and guess what- they still killed the cows.


ROFL ROFL ROFL

unlurking
01-03-2008, 09:59 PM
eet mor chik'n

MahiMike
01-03-2008, 10:01 PM
Absolutely not.

Season Ticket Holders are not to blame. An organization that bases itself on loyalty is the problem.

Without fans, this team doesn't exist.

It should not fall to driving away fans before changes are made. It is completely asenine. Evaluation should occur based on performance not loyalty.

Frankly, I don't think it will make any difference. From what I've seen, Carl is the GM come hell or high water. Carl focuses on money, but I'm not sure Clark does. There are lots of dudes out there that can make money. Dudesthat aren't bashed in the local media and hated by fans. From what I can tell it is all about loyalty.

I'm a n00b. If you think I'm wrong, I probably am.

ok, you're wrong. As long as Carl can keep butts in seats, 8-8 seasons will continue to be the norm. Only when the fans quit buying tickets will change be possible.

Baconeater
01-03-2008, 10:02 PM
In the 90s I went 8 years without eating red meat and guess what- they still killed the cows.
They were delicious.

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 10:04 PM
ok, you're wrong. As long as Carl can keep butts in seats, 8-8 seasons will continue to be the norm. Only when the fans quit buying tickets will change be possible.

Riiight.

Lest we forget it took Clark's father 12 years of 25% capacity for him to make a change.

You live in a fantasy world if you think anything is getting CP out of Arrowhead any earlier than 2009.

Blaming the fans? Childish.

Blame the owner.

Logical
01-03-2008, 10:05 PM
Like I have tried to explain in the other thread, I don't feel you as a STH are causing the Chiefs problems, I also don't feel you are bad fans. I do feel you are not doing the one pro-active act that you as a fan can do to force the Chiefs to replace the entire front office and that is to deny them revenue which will get Clark's attention pronto.

el borracho
01-03-2008, 10:12 PM
They were delicious.
Yes, they are (I eat red meat all the time, now).

Logical
01-03-2008, 10:12 PM
Funny you bring that up.

Vlad is on his high horse in another thread calling out STH's as the problem.

Yet he discloses that he was a STH between 1977 and 1989.

So it's perfectly fine for him to sit at Arrowhead for 12 years without "sending a message," it's wrong of current STH's to do the same.

Bit hypocritical, eh?I don't see that as hypocritical, I canceled my season tickets the year they fired Steadman, was I the cause, no, was I a contribution to the cause I would like to think so. Hey Steadman only got around 12 years, Carl has had what is it now 17 or I think that is quite a bit more failure and face facts if you are not at least making the big dance you are failing no matter what your regular season record is each year.

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 10:13 PM
Like I have tried to explain in the other thread, I don't feel you as a STH are causing the Chiefs problems, I also don't feel you are bad fans. I do feel you are not doing the one pro-active act that you as a fan can do to force the Chiefs to replace the entire front office and that is to deny them revenue which will get Clark's attention pronto.

Like it did with Lamar and Steadman?

12 years of Arrowhead at 25% before a change was made.

Or I can be patient, wait 2 years, and he'll be gone.

Again, you're fooling yourself if you think Clark is going to make a change PERIOD, much less based on the fans thinking.

And if "trying to explain" = dishing out backhanded compliments, then you did a bang-up job.

Luzap
01-03-2008, 10:14 PM
...Fans are fans, whether they make a financial commitment to the franchise or not. I don't think that it's anyone's place to belittle a group of fans because of the financial commitment or lack thereof towards their team...

No, let's just belittle the fans that like Carl Peterson.
Or that like Herm Edwards.
Or that believe the team is going in the right direction.
Or that believe the Hunt's know what they're doing.
Or that want to enjoy the team no matter what.
Or that like Bob Gretz.
Or that like Rufas Dawes.

We all know that you're not a real fan unless you can lambaste someone. Unless you've got all the answers. Unless you can go postal on anyone with a positive attitude.

The truth is most people don't hate Carl, Herm, or the Chiefs. They don't hate Gretz or Dawes, and they don't all buy into the Whitlock spin. They are willing to support a rebuilding effort and do feel that we're going in the right direction. You want the truth? That's the truth.

Luz
the truth? you can't handle the truth...

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 10:15 PM
I don't see that as hypocritical, I canceled my season tickets the year they fired Steadman, was I the cause, no, was I a contribution to the cause I would like to think so. Hey Steadman only got around 12 years, Carl has had what is it now 17 or I think that is quite a bit more failure and face facts if you are not at least making the big dance you are failing no matter what your regular season record is each year.

Am I correct in understanding you cancelled your tickets because you moved?

Because that is how it has come across.

If so, why didn't you send a message in Year 6?

Year 8?

Year 10?

Deberg_1990
01-03-2008, 10:19 PM
The fans are not the problem
Carl Peterson is not the problem
Herm Edwards is not the problem


The Hunts are the problem for just being satisfied with mediocrity.

Nzoner
01-03-2008, 10:19 PM
Blame the owner.

Therein lies the problem,when I had my meltdown 2 seasons ago and posted my I'm done thread I addressed Lamar(God rest his soul)and even made it a point to say I'm a resident of THE SHOW-ME STATE so it was time for ownership to show me they gave a shit.


People may not like the Bob Krafts,Jerry Jones' of the sports world but I'd give anything to have an owner who was regularly seen on tv and on the sidelines late in close games trying to rally the troops because that shows me a man with passion a man who truly loves his team and doesn't just use it as a money making hobby.

Logical
01-03-2008, 10:22 PM
Like it did with Lamar and Steadman?

12 years of Arrowhead at 25% before a change was made.

Or I can be patient, wait 2 years, and he'll be gone.

Again, you're fooling yourself if you think Clark is going to make a change PERIOD, much less based on the fans thinking.

And if "trying to explain" = dishing out backhanded compliments, then you did a bang-up job.

First of all Arrowhead has never from when it opened to 1990 has the season ticket holder base it has now. When it first opened they might have average 45,000 with an occassional 80K game for the Raiders and even at the end in 87 they still had about 45K in season ticket holders no real change, what changed was the no shows, they started going up drastically and dropping revenue. Then in 88 they actually had a huge drop in STH renewals and that was it they fired Steadman as GM. So maybe you should know your Chiefs history a little better before trying to tell the story.

Guru
01-03-2008, 10:24 PM
Therein lies the problem,when I had my meltdown 2 seasons ago and posted my I'm done thread I addressed Lamar(God rest his soul)and even made it a point to say I'm a resident of THE SHOW-ME STATE so it was time for ownership to show me they gave a shit.


People may not like the Bob Krafts,Jerry Jones' of the sports world but I'd give anything to have an owner who was regularly seen on tv and on the sidelines late in close games trying to rally the troops because that shows me a man with passion a man who truly loves his team and doesn't just use it as a money making hobby.

God what I would give to see our owner show that kind of passion.

Logical
01-03-2008, 10:25 PM
Am I correct in understanding you cancelled your tickets because you moved?

Because that is how it has come across.

If so, why didn't you send a message in Year 6?

Year 8?

Year 10?No you are not correct, I moved in 1990, I had my season tickets through the 88 season, canceling them before the 89 season (actually to be factual I sold the rights to a friend).

HonestChieffan
01-03-2008, 10:26 PM
I can be a Chiefs Fan if I want. I can be a fan if they win or if they suck. I dont need some asshat telling me when or how to be a Chiefs Fan. If you dont want to be a Chiefs fan so what. I dont care. If I want to hold my season tickets and you dont well fine whatever.

Go away from me, asshat.

Extra Point
01-03-2008, 10:28 PM
STH's elect to spend their money as they see fit, as those who are NSTH's. I never thought it was worth it, as I didn't feel that I could afford 5 ST's for my family.
We are STD's. ("Don'ts.")

Logical
01-03-2008, 10:29 PM
The fans are not the problem
Carl Peterson is not the problem
Herm Edwards is not the problem


The Hunts are the problem for just being satisfied with mediocrity.
I agree with this to a certain extent, they are satisified with mediocrity with Carl in Charge because the butts are in the seats.

Deberg_1990
01-03-2008, 10:30 PM
First of all Arrowhead has never from when it opened to 1990 has the season ticket holder base it has now. When it first opened they might have average 45,000 with an occassional 80K game for the Raiders and even at the end in 87 they still had about 45K in season ticket holders no real change, what changed was the no shows, they started going up drastically and dropping revenue. Then in 88 they actually had a huge drop in STH renewals and that was it they fired Steadman as GM. So maybe you should know your Chiefs history a little better before trying to tell the story.

The more i think about it,

I think some of the reasons the Chiefs attendance rose from the 80's to the 90's was:

1. The NFL slowly overtook baseball as Americas National Pastime. The NFL has always been popular, but its "mainstream popularity" has exploded in the past 20 to 25 years.

2. The Chiefs got better and the Royals got progressively worse.

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 10:33 PM
No you are not correct, I moved in 1990, I had my season tickets through the 88 season, canceling them before the 89 season (actually to be factual I sold the rights to a friend).

Thank you for clearing that up.

In the other thread it reads differently.

I stand corrected.

MadMax
01-03-2008, 10:34 PM
Lamar Hunt stood by Steadman for how many years while there was an empty stadium?

I don't know how far Clark is gonna stry from his dad, but so far I'm unimpressed. It seems that he's gonna be loyal to a fault, as well, which hurts. But that also probably means that regardless of what the fans think, he's gonna do what he wants.
Besides, the tickets are only a small portion of the money the team makes anyway, if I remember correctly.



Yea Clark seems about as gutless as his filthy rich Pappa, or maybe a better word would be "un-interested".. You can call it loyal, I call it selfish. The money they get from the K.C Chiefs means squat to them, they are set for infinity.It's more a status symbol to own a professional franchise and they have milked all the glory they can and seem to be wanting more.The best thing they could do would be to sell to a person who wants to truly win.I am dregging this up from my deepest darkest depths of despair so be kind. Just wanted to vent and now I feel much better thank you :) I'm sure they give to charity and stuff :p Like a million to them is like me giving a ****in penny.

HonestChieffan
01-03-2008, 10:37 PM
All this hate on Clark becuse he doesnt have press conferences and answer questions posed by morons who think they know what the boy is thinking? Do you really in your quet moments think this guy is not interested? How ignorant.

Give the guy a chance.

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 10:39 PM
First of all Arrowhead has never from when it opened to 1990 has the season ticket holder base it has now. When it first opened they might have average 45,000 with an occassional 80K game for the Raiders and even at the end in 87 they still had about 45K in season ticket holders no real change, what changed was the no shows, they started going up drastically and dropping revenue. Then in 88 they actually had a huge drop in STH renewals and that was it they fired Steadman as GM. So maybe you should know your Chiefs history a little better before trying to tell the story.

Of course it doesn't. Football didn't have nearly the appeal it does now.


45K STH's and only 25K showing up.

So 45% of the fanbase disappeared over 12 years before the change was made.

if you think 45% of STH are going to give up seats REGARDLESS of their record, you're certifiably nuts.

And I'd still be interested to know why you didn't jump ship earlier.

MadMax
01-03-2008, 10:40 PM
All this hate on Clark becuse he doesnt have press conferences and answer questions posed by morons who think they know what the boy is thinking? Do you really in your quet moments think this guy is not interested? How ignorant.

Give the guy a chance.


Oh hail mighty genius I was half joking and STFU!
STFU Personally I give shit what he says, actions speak louder than words.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-03-2008, 10:40 PM
Ok, so I support the Chiefs financially, they suck, and to show I want change, I cancel my tickets, they finally turn things around, and then I can't go and support them anymore because I've lost my goddamned tickets.

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 10:41 PM
I'm off to bed.

I'll be curious as to where this has gone by morning.

OnTheWarpath58
01-03-2008, 10:41 PM
Ok, so I support the Chiefs financially, they suck, and to show I want change, I cancel my tickets, they finally turn things around, and then I can't go and support them anymore because I've lost my goddamned tickets.

****ing genius, isn't it?

Nzoner
01-03-2008, 10:42 PM
All this hate on Clark becuse he doesnt have press conferences and answer questions posed by morons who think they know what the boy is thinking? Do you really in your quet moments think this guy is not interested? How ignorant.

Give the guy a chance.

Interested to me is like old Wayne down in Miami,hire a new coach and team absolutely sucks so what does he do,hire Parcells and says build me a winner,new coach gone after 1 season.

Baltimore firing a Super Bowl winning coach because he's ready to win another trophy,now,that's interested.

I could go on but you get the idea.

Deberg_1990
01-03-2008, 10:42 PM
All this hate on Clark becuse he doesnt have press conferences and answer questions posed by morons who think they know what the boy is thinking? Do you really in your quet moments think this guy is not interested? How ignorant.

Give the guy a chance.

His inactivity speaks volumes.

Fish
01-03-2008, 10:49 PM
IMO..... there is still too much allure around the Arrowhead experience to make the common fan give up his ticket in voice of change. There are just too many idiots to take that persons place......

Luzap
01-03-2008, 10:53 PM
IMO..... there is still too much allure around the Arrowhead experience to make the common fan give up his ticket in voice of change. There are just too many idiots to take that persons place......
Oooooh... Now we have common fans versus real fans ~ and I guess only idiots would buy new season tickets.

Hmmm... Does that mean that real fans have to give up their season tickets? I hope so (I'm on the waiting list for Club Level).

Let's get a petition going for giving up season tickets.

Luz
who's going first???...

Logical
01-03-2008, 10:57 PM
Of course it doesn't. Football didn't have nearly the appeal it does now.


45K STH's and only 25K showing up.

So 45% of the fanbase disappeared over 12 years before the change was made.

if you think 45% of STH are going to give up seats REGARDLESS of their record, you're certifiably nuts.

And I'd still be interested to know why you didn't jump ship earlier.
Truthfully my best friend from HS went to the games with me and it was a yearly ritual for us to get together. If it would have been for winning football I would probably have given them up.

Fish
01-03-2008, 10:58 PM
Oooooh... Now we have common fans versus real fans ~ and I guess only idiots would buy new season tickets.

Hmmm... Does that mean that real fans have to give up their season tickets? I hope so (I'm on the waiting list for Club Level).

Let's get a petition going for giving up season tickets.

Luz
who's going first???...

Please give up your season tickets now. I'm excited to receive the opportunity.

After all.. I was absolutely insisting that fans give up their season tickets.....

Dipshit... you're going first.....

Mr. Flopnuts
01-03-2008, 11:01 PM
Absolutely not.

Season Ticket Holders are not to blame. An organization that bases itself on loyalty is the problem.

Without fans, this team doesn't exist.

It should not fall to driving away fans before changes are made. It is completely asenine. Evaluation should occur based on performance not loyalty.

Frankly, I don't think it will make any difference. From what I've seen, Carl is the GM come hell or high water. Carl focuses on money, but I'm not sure Clark does. There are lots of dudes out there that can make money. Dudesthat aren't bashed in the local media and hated by fans. From what I can tell it is all about loyalty.

I'm a n00b. If you think I'm wrong, I probably am.


Pretty ****in smart noob. If you think he's wrong, it's probably you.

ChiefsCountry
01-04-2008, 01:02 AM
All NFL teams make money. The league is set up to be a money making machine. Basically Lamar and the AFL set it up that way. Chiefs go on the road they get 40% of the ticket sales. Chiefs at home get 60%. They get to keep suites and parking. I just got in the ST game two years ago. My family had them throughout the 80's and gave them up in 89, well we know what happened then. Right now I am young dont have any other expenses, and heck I enjoy going to the games. Yeah they sucked ass this year but I still had fun at games and in the end that is all that matters. I hated the outcome dont get me there.

crazycoffey
01-04-2008, 01:47 AM
being a season ticket holder gives no power but the power to decide if they want to go watch the game or sell an individual game ticket and maybe make a few bucks.....

crazycoffey
01-04-2008, 01:51 AM
I'm a n00b. If you think I'm wrong, I probably am.



n00b power!!!!

Luzap
01-04-2008, 07:18 AM
Please give up your season tickets now. I'm excited to receive the opportunity.

After all.. I was absolutely insisting that fans give up their season tickets.....

Dipshit... you're going first.....

KC Fish,

Can you say, 'back peddling'?

I always love it when people resort to personal insults ~ it shows lack of character and vocabulary.

You stated that if people gave up their season tickets it would have no impact because idiot fans would just buy them up (as opposed, I guess, to the real fans that gave them up).

I've already paid my money and am on the waiting list for Club Level. I just need more people like you to lambaste the team so they'll drop their season tickets and move me up the list.

Luz
so someone start the petition... please...

DenverChief
01-04-2008, 07:20 AM
(PWHTTEIAA)

Okay I give

Fish
01-04-2008, 07:57 AM
KC Fish,

Can you say, 'back peddling'?

I always love it when people resort to personal insults ~ it shows lack of character and vocabulary.

You stated that if people gave up their season tickets it would have no impact because idiot fans would just buy them up (as opposed, I guess, to the real fans that gave them up).

I've already paid my money and am on the waiting list for Club Level. I just need more people like you to lambaste the team so they'll drop their season tickets and move me up the list.

Luz
so someone start the petition... please...

Back peddling? About what?

You're trying to make connections that I never made. I never said "real fans" had to give up season tickets. Those were your words that you pulled out of your ass and tried to pin on me.

I don't want anyone to give up their tickets. I don't feel that canceling season tickets has the impact that people think. And I believe that this next season is the most important time to fill the house. Now is when the team needs a full Arrowhead. The young inexperienced team needs fan support, not fan protest.

But go on trying to put words in my mouth.... and enjoy Club level, sounds like your kind of crowd.

Luzap
01-04-2008, 08:20 AM
Back peddling? About what?

You're trying to make connections that I never made. I never said "real fans" had to give up season tickets. Those were your words that you pulled out of your ass and tried to pin on me.

I don't want anyone to give up their tickets. I don't feel that canceling season tickets has the impact that people think. And I believe that this next season is the most important time to fill the house. Now is when the team needs a full Arrowhead. The young inexperienced team needs fan support, not fan protest.

But go on trying to put words in my mouth.... and enjoy Club level, sounds like your kind of crowd.

Wow, it sounds like I misunderstood your intent. If so, I'm sorry.

There are so many on the bb that are trying to say really silly things like 'we should give up tickets to protest' that I thought you were one of them.

Luz
this does give me an idea though...