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View Full Version : Microsoft, Toshiba, and HD-DVD


'Hamas' Jenkins
01-05-2008, 07:34 PM
If you were in charge of MS, how would you now plan a counteroffensive to BRA's bold, devastating move yesterday?

Microsoft is the only company with enough cash to bribe studios like Disney, WB, etc over to their side, as Toshiba lacks the leverage.

Do you take that risk, hoping to bury Sony and the PS3, 4, and 5 in the process? Or do you stay content and throw Tosh. to the wolves knowing full well that HD-DVD allowed you enough time to stall Sony and produce a more popular system?

Do you integrate an HD-DVD drive into the 360? Do you make the next XBox use an HD-DVD drive, thus guaranteeing the player's survival?

Do you do something really crazy and yank Windows support from Vaios?

Fly O.T. McWall
01-05-2008, 08:29 PM
if it were me i'd probably make a deal (bribe) studios, as well as integrate into the xbox 360.

ChiefsFootball
01-05-2008, 08:37 PM
Whatever you do, you do not abandon your pre-existing customers who own millions upon millions of 360 systems, and whom some own the attachable HD-DVD drive. The simple solution is keep making spectacular games and you will win whatever console war the Sony system is having with you. Abandon your client base and fail to make great games you lose, simple. A format for viewing movies is not going to affect Microsoft as much as them failing to continue to make great software for the 360. You live by the sword, you die by it.

Cochise
01-05-2008, 08:39 PM
Sony made a nice play on deciding to put the bluray in the system already.

Most people who have a 360 probably won't end up buying the sega CD, I mean the HD-DVD add-on. But all Sony's customers have BRD in their house already. I mean, if sony's only sold 5 million consoles, they're behind, but I bet there aren't even half that many xbox 360 HD-DVD drives out there in people's homes.

The battle might have been over before it began, as long as the PS3 didn't totally tank. This year the software is going to come on and I think it's going to be a push for them.

Or - just walk around Best Buy. The Bluray stuff is displayed more prominently, there seem to be more movies, and the Blueray movies have a more prominent display location at the one I visit. Same at the local Target - there's been a bluray player on an end display on a main aisle for a long time now, but I can't recall ever seeing an HD-DVD player out somewhere to grab people's attention.

I considered getting my parents a standalone bluray player for Christmas, if they were cheap enough (which they weren't so I didn't), but one day I remember BB not having any in stock. I thought that was surprising.

HP cornered the printer market by muscling places like Officemax into not selling knockoff printer ink. I have to wonder if Sony hasn't already done the same to all these retailers, because nobody from a layman's perspective seems to be pushing HD-DVD

Mr. Flopnuts
01-05-2008, 08:39 PM
If you were in charge of MS, how would you now plan a counteroffensive to BRA's bold, devastating move yesterday?

Microsoft is the only company with enough cash to bribe studios like Disney, WB, etc over to their side, as Toshiba lacks the leverage.

Do you take that risk, hoping to bury Sony and the PS3, 4, and 5 in the process? Or do you stay content and throw Tosh. to the wolves knowing full well that HD-DVD allowed you enough time to stall Sony and produce a more popular system?

Do you integrate an HD-DVD drive into the 360? Do you make the next XBox use an HD-DVD drive, thus guaranteeing the player's survival?

Do you do something really crazy and yank Windows support from Vaios?


You seem genuinely concerned about this. I'll ask the same question I did yesterday that I don't think you saw. Why pay $350 for a 20gb Hd 360 plus $100 more for the hd movie player, when you can get a 40gb PS3 with a bluray player built in for $399? Yes I know it's unrelated to this thread, I'm just curious if you're starting to see the writing on the wall.

JBucc
01-05-2008, 08:40 PM
Hire some private contractors and take over Japan.


Or, drop the price of the 360 HD-DVD addon, and tell Wal-Mart to hurry up with their thing (if they haven't done it already, I haven't been following this), and offer a discount on M$ products to retailers who sell HD-DVD exclusively.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-05-2008, 08:41 PM
BTW IMO if you yank windows support from sony computers as a means to punish them for whooping your ass in a completely different market you risk cutting off your nose to spite your face. It very well could improve the popularity of Linux. Microsoft is not a popular company when it comes to supporting competition. Lots of people own Sony computers. Do they sell them or learn a new OS? Risky.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-05-2008, 08:43 PM
You seem genuinely concerned about this. I'll ask the same question I did yesterday that I don't think you saw. Why pay $350 for a 20gb Hd 360 plus $100 more for the hd movie player, when you can get a 40gb PS3 with a bluray player built in for $399? Yes I know it's unrelated to this thread, I'm just curious if you're starting to see the writing on the wall.

No, I'm more intrigued than anything. Plus I'm big into "what-if" type history. I posted a pretty big thread in DC last year regarding a "What-if" scenario around the US and China in a war.

I'm speculative by nature :shrug:, part of being a student I guess.

I have no sunk costs vis-a-vis HD-DVD, as I was going to by an upconverting player anyway, and got 10 free movies with it. I've had a 360 for a year and a half.

And I've never been a fan of combination devices...ever. I personally view people who use their gaming consoles as DVD players or people who buy Computer-Monitor all-in-ones as dumbasses because they pay a premium for a consolidated device that costs them two devices if it fails.

A similar thread could be started around the concept of how you fully bury HD-DVD if you are BRA.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-05-2008, 08:44 PM
No, I'm more intrigued than anything. Plus I'm big into "what-if" type history. I posted a pretty big thread in DC last year regarding a "What-if" scenario around the US and China in a war.

I'm speculative by nature :shrug:, part of being a student I guess.


I'm with you. I wasn't trying to attack you or anything. I'm just curious how you feel about the 360 with HD player being more expensive than the PS3 with twice the hd and a bluray built in.

Sure-Oz
01-05-2008, 08:47 PM
So what do you think will happen, should everyone jump ship from HD DVD now? Im kinda poed cause i have an hd dvd player and 15 hd dvds, i really dont want to pony $400+ for HD shit

Fruit Ninja
01-05-2008, 08:50 PM
You seem genuinely concerned about this. I'll ask the same question I did yesterday that I don't think you saw. Why pay $350 for a 20gb Hd 360 plus $100 more for the hd movie player, when you can get a 40gb PS3 with a bluray player built in for $399? Yes I know it's unrelated to this thread, I'm just curious if you're starting to see the writing on the wall.
to play kick ass games :P at least on the 360. I dont give a shit about the HD war really. I just wanna play games. I dont think MS is really invested in it to much. They can make a BR attachment later if they wanted tool

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-05-2008, 08:51 PM
I'm with you. I wasn't trying to attack you or anything. I'm just curious how you feel about the 360 with HD player being more expensive than the PS3 with twice the hd and a bluray built in.

Ehh...I paid 550 essentially for a 360 with an unrelated HD-DVD standalone device and 10 movies.

With the Sony I'd get an HDM drive built in and 10 movies for essentially 500, but all of my eggs are in one basket. The drive undertakes twice the workload, and if it fails, not only can I not watch my BD's, but I can't play my next gen games (which are substantially behind the 360 in both quantity and quality).

I eagerly await solid state storage. It would be even more reliable than the SNES and give you more than enough capacity for HD Media.

Optical Drives suck. Always have, always will.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-05-2008, 08:59 PM
Or - just walk around Best Buy. The Bluray stuff is displayed more prominently, there seem to be more movies, and the Blueray movies have a more prominent display location at the one I visit. Same at the local Target - there's been a bluray player on an end display on a main aisle for a long time now, but I can't recall ever seeing an HD-DVD player out somewhere to grab people's attention.

Sony paid out the ass for exclusivity at Target as well as for prominent endcaps. I went into a BBY yesterday and saw two PS3's in the middle of the store with a long line of astroturf leading up to them.

It was a very bold move by Sony, and seems to be working quite well.

Ultimately the customer will lose, as the BD devices won't have as much incentive to drop in price, and with the way that Sony tries to make *EVERYTHING* proprietary, as well as their love for installing rootkits on the computers of their customers (the CD debacle), I see a gouge coming soon if HD-DVD loses.

Sure-Oz
01-05-2008, 09:01 PM
Sony paid out the ass for exclusivity at Target as well as for prominent endcaps. I went into a BBY yesterday and saw two PS3's in the middle of the store with a long line of astroturf leading up to them.

It was a very bold move by Sony, and seems to be working quite well.

Ultimately the customer will lose, as the BD devices won't have as much incentive to drop in price, and with the way that Sony tries to make *EVERYTHING* proprietary, as well as their love for installing rootkits on the computers of their customers (the CD debacle), I see a gouge coming soon if HD-DVD loses.
PS3 may have to be my "standalone" player, since it seems the $300 br players are old or a POS

Mr. Flopnuts
01-05-2008, 09:03 PM
to play kick ass games :P at least on the 360. I dont give a shit about the HD war really. I just wanna play games. I dont think MS is really invested in it to much. They can make a BR attachment later if they wanted tool



You think Sony would allow that after being iced on so many exclusive Microsoft titles?

Fruit Ninja
01-05-2008, 09:07 PM
Then keep putting out kick ass games, soething the other gaming company just isnt doing.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-05-2008, 09:08 PM
Then keep putting out kick ass games, soething the other gaming company just isnt doing.


I really think that by the end of this year that argument won't be valid anymore. Then what? Meh, at least we both agree that AC kicked royal ass.

ChiefsLV
01-05-2008, 09:23 PM
You seem genuinely concerned about this. I'll ask the same question I did yesterday that I don't think you saw. Why pay $350 for a 20gb Hd 360 plus $100 more for the hd movie player, when you can get a 40gb PS3 with a bluray player built in for $399? Yes I know it's unrelated to this thread, I'm just curious if you're starting to see the writing on the wall.


Um, game selection? I could give two shits about Hi-Def movies right now. I'd want a stand-alone unit anyway and I wouldn't pay $350 for one right now when they'll be $100 in no time. I'm one of those types who likes to be playing a game and having movies/TV playing on another TV.

Fruit Ninja
01-05-2008, 10:19 PM
I really think that by the end of this year that argument won't be valid anymore. Then what? Meh, at least we both agree that AC kicked royal ass.
Until then, there is no then what. PS3 has no great games to play that you cannot get on the 360. Not to mention the games look better and run smoother on the 360.


So until they get some great exclusives there is no then what. Companies just do not want to make games for the ps3. Hell, 2k's new boxing game isnt even on the Ps3. They want nothing to do with it.

BigMeatballDave
01-05-2008, 11:21 PM
As much as I wanna get a hi-def player, I will wait to see what happens to the multi-format players.

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=279850&i=305BD5000&tp=171

Otis99
01-05-2008, 11:33 PM
Anyone that thinks one of the two formats will win is delusional. Sorry, but we are going to be stuck with two incompatible formats forever. Wait until the dual-mode players get cheap (my bet is X-mas 2009) and buy one then if you aren't sure which one. I'm no Microsoft lover, but they are digging their heels in on this fight and have the backing of a few studios. They aren't gonna go away. Likewise, Sony isn't either. Sony made a smart decision to bundle the new drives with the PS3, but why people think that knocks Microsoft out of the picture is beyond me.

Let's put this whole thing in perspective. Right now, the High-Def market for DVDs represents a very small fraction of movie sales in total. Something like less than 5%. The studios and the companies making these new drives want you to buy one pretty bad, but the selection of titles right now is pretty crappy. It's going to take a few years for these new discs to overtake the DVD market. Meanwhile, I have yet to hear any manufacturer be dumb enough to say they are dumping support for DVD in favor of one of the hi-def formats. Maybe in 2 years you will start hearing them talk about doing that, but it's not happening anytime soon.

There are no winners in this so-called war. There are two reasons people are slow to adopt either new standard:

1. Most people don't have a high-def TV right now and are not willing to pay another 10 bucks a disc for a high def DVD. Hell, a lot of people that have an HDTV claim they can't tell the difference (I think much of the time this comes from poor mastering by the studios in a rush to get product on the shelf, but this is definitely an incremental upgrade at best).

2. People are waiting for one side to win, or for dual-mode players to become really cheap. No one wants to buy a piece of hardware that they think will be obsolete in a few years.

Bottom line, the consumers are losing, and that's what's matters.

Cochise
01-05-2008, 11:40 PM
Forget the players. I just wish the movies didn't cost so much. It doesn't affect me in a huge way since I never watch a movie more than once, but it's still kind of shocking to walk into a store and see the movies priced at $30. I mean, you buy someone a few movies as a throw-in gift at Christmas or whatever and you've spent a hundred bucks.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-05-2008, 11:46 PM
Forget the players. I just wish the movies didn't cost so much. It doesn't affect me in a huge way since I never watch a movie more than once, but it's still kind of shocking to walk into a store and see the movies priced at $30. I mean, you buy someone a few movies as a throw-in gift at Christmas or whatever and you've spent a hundred bucks.

Any-DVD HD. For the price of a 500 gig hard drive you can have 10-20 movies. Far more palatable cost ;)

Dallas Chief
01-06-2008, 12:22 AM
Sony paid out the ass for exclusivity at Target as well as for prominent endcaps. I went into a BBY yesterday and saw two PS3's in the middle of the store with a long line of astroturf leading up to them.

It was a very bold move by Sony, and seems to be working quite well.

Ultimately the customer will lose, as the BD devices won't have as much incentive to drop in price, and with the way that Sony tries to make *EVERYTHING* proprietary, as well as their love for installing rootkits on the computers of their customers (the CD debacle), I see a gouge coming soon if HD-DVD loses.
Where did you score that info about Target? And how does the customer lose? Because they can't go buy cheap hardware made by kids in Bangladesh? What's proprietary about Blu-ray? And just to make you feel bettter, the whole proprietary thing is dying rather quickly. Sir Howard doesn't like to play that game much.

phillip
01-06-2008, 03:16 PM
You can also put linux on the PS3. I've enjoyed playing around with it.

The games will come, just like they did with PS2.

Fire Me Boy!
01-06-2008, 03:24 PM
FWIW, I was just at Sam's. They had two HD-DVD movies -- Transormers and Shrek The Third. They had 26 Blu-Ray.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-07-2008, 07:46 PM
Where did you score that info about Target? And how does the customer lose? Because they can't go buy cheap hardware made by kids in Bangladesh? What's proprietary about Blu-ray? And just to make you feel bettter, the whole proprietary thing is dying rather quickly. Sir Howard doesn't like to play that game much.

AVSforum.

Competition breeds lower prices. Sony has at no point ever shown that they are willing to manufacture products at competitive prices unless they absolutely have to. Why else would they charge 20% more for each LCD TV set than Samsung, when their screens are made by the same company (S-FT)?

Check out how many Blu-Ray replicators there are and who controls the disc construction method. Then compare it to HD-DVD.

All signs have thusfar pointed to HD-DVD players having faster load times and being more durable.