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banyon
01-06-2008, 10:37 PM
Let me be honest. I don't know d*ck about guns. I've never even fired one. But I think I want to learn and get one for my home. I think it's probably a good idea for my new job.

What's best for home defense and what's best for conceal-carry?

After reading, I was thinking a sig-sauer maybe for home. I know people say shotguns are reliable, but I'm not sure I like the bulkiness of it. Plus, I'm in an apartment complex and would like to try to avoid collateral damage in the event of a break in.

Should I buy a separate gun for practice? If so what?

All input appreciated (or at least most of it).

ChiefsCountry
01-06-2008, 10:39 PM
I dont have a hand gun, but I have a 30.06 rifle, .243 rifle, 12 gauge, .22 rifle, 12 double barrell shotgun, and a bb gun :).

blueballs
01-06-2008, 10:39 PM
tazer
the neighbors dogs

JBucc
01-06-2008, 10:49 PM
http://www.lonestarairsoft.com/forums/photopost/data/2/926MinigunTwo.JPG

Kraus
01-06-2008, 10:51 PM
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j96/Logicone/RocketPropelledChainsaw.jpg

banyon
01-06-2008, 10:52 PM
Okay, when i said "all input appreciated" I may have been exaggerating.

Iowanian
01-06-2008, 11:04 PM
Little to no experience with guns, and you're only concerned with Home defense?

I don't think you could go wrong with something like a Mossburg 500 or 870 12 guage with a short barrel. Buckshot gives you a wider area of damage, won't go through your walls and kill your neighbors and is very, very loud, even if you miss.

My bedside protector is a Rueger P94 .40 cal. My brothers have much cooler pistols, and if I buy another one, I don't need the Kimber.....I think I'd go with a Springfield 1911 .45.

acesn8s
01-06-2008, 11:04 PM
Okay, when i said "all input appreciated" I may have been exaggerating.Please do keep in mind what you say and who you are saying it to.

We are

ChiefsPlanet

2bikemike
01-06-2008, 11:07 PM
Personally if I lived in an apt. I would go with the shot gun. Any pistol round will travel further past the wall unless it hits something on the way through. I think the shot would scatter and dissipate more making for less of an injury if it did pass through. Think Dick Cheney and his hunting buddies.

IMHO a shotgun is a hell of a lot more intimidating than a hand gun when staring down the barrell.

As far as a conceal carry, I am not sure where you live but I would check the laws and the ease of obtaining a CC permit. I know where I live it is damn near impossible. But for a concealed weapon you want something that doesn't have sharp edges that can catch when drawing it out. I just saw one in american rifleman that was specifically designed for CC. I will try and find the make and model. I do know it only came in .45 and SW .40

banyon
01-06-2008, 11:07 PM
Little to no experience with guns, and you're only concerned with Home defense?

I don't think you could go wrong with something like a Mossburg 500 or 870 12 guage with a short barrel. Buckshot gives you a wider area of damage, won't go through your walls and kill your neighbors and is very, very loud, even if you miss.

I am interested in conceal carry too and a practice gun (in the OP). Is there something else I need to be concerned with IYO?

banyon
01-06-2008, 11:08 PM
Personally if I lived in an apt. I would go with the shot gun. Any pistol round will travel further past the wall unless it hits something on the way through. I think the shot would scatter and dissipate more making for less of an injury if it did pass through. Think Dick Cheney and his hunting buddies.

IMHO a shotgun is a hell of a lot more intimidating than a hand gun when staring down the barrell.

As far as a conceal carry, I am not sure where you live but I would check the laws and the ease of obtaining a CC permit. I know where I live it is damn near impossible. But for a concealed weapon you want something that doesn't have sharp edges that can catch when drawing it out. I just saw one in american rifleman that was specifically designed for CC. I will try and find the make and model. I do know it only came in .45 and SW .40

I'm in KS.

milkman
01-06-2008, 11:11 PM
Personally if I lived in an apt. I would go with the shot gun. Any pistol round will travel further past the wall unless it hits something on the way through. I think the shot would scatter and dissipate more making for less of an injury if it did pass through. Think Dick Cheney and his hunting buddies.

IMHO a shotgun is a hell of a lot more intimidating than a hand gun when staring down the barrell.

As far as a conceal carry, I am not sure where you live but I would check the laws and the ease of obtaining a CC permit. I know where I live it is damn near impossible. But for a concealed weapon you want something that doesn't have sharp edges that can catch when drawing it out. I just saw one in american rifleman that was specifically designed for CC. I will try and find the make and model. I do know it only came in .45 and SW .40

California is a beautiful place, ain't it?

Iowanian
01-06-2008, 11:12 PM
I shot a friend's new sub compact .40 cal today....and it had a magazine that extended below with extra "handle" with that clip in.....which was nice for target shooting, and with a regular clip, its a lot shorter for keeping under your shoulder.

You don't need a Dirty Hairy cannon......You might be more comfortable with a revolver, or a smaller caliber like a .380

Go to a reputable gun shop and explain your situation.....Hold several different types, revolvers and semi-auto pistols and see what "feels nice".

If you know someone that has a lot of guns....go with them and shoot some, maybe someone at a gun club would let you shoot different ones.

Whatever you do...shoot a lot, become very comfortable with the weapon you choose. Know the safety, be able to be ready to roll in the dark, and just as importantly, be able to remove the clip and unchamber it safely too.

Be safe. Practice with the gun you're carrying, or using as a home protection device.

2bikemike
01-06-2008, 11:15 PM
Well I can't access the magazine online. But some more advice would be to check out websites like this http://www.pistolworld.com/.

Also I would visit a few shops that sell guns and see what feels good in your hands ask questions and don't be shy about telling them you don't know squat about guns.

I would look into getting some instruction as well. You will definately have to get instruction to get a CCW Permit.

2bikemike
01-06-2008, 11:17 PM
California is a beautiful place, ain't it?

Yeah The weather is nice and there is some beautiful scenery but everything else sucks ass.

2bikemike
01-06-2008, 11:20 PM
I shot a friend's new sub compact .40 cal today....and it had a magazine that extended below with extra "handle" with that clip in.....which was nice for target shooting, and with a regular clip, its a lot shorter for keeping under your shoulder.

You don't need a Dirty Hairy cannon......You might be more comfortable with a revolver, or a smaller caliber like a .380

Go to a reputable gun shop and explain your situation.....Hold several different types, revolvers and semi-auto pistols and see what "feels nice".

If you know someone that has a lot of guns....go with them and shoot some, maybe someone at a gun club would let you shoot different ones.

Whatever you do...shoot a lot, become very comfortable with the weapon you choose. Know the safety, be able to be ready to roll in the dark, and just as importantly, be able to remove the clip and unchamber it safely too.

Be safe. Practice with the gun you're carrying, or using as a home protection device.

Not too mention the price of ammo goes up considerably when dealing with the Dirty Harry Cannons.

I recenly shot a friend titanium 9' barrelled 44 cal magnum and to me personally it wasn't that fun. Kicked like a son of a bitch and by the 5th or 6th time I was flinching just before the gun went off.

banyon
01-06-2008, 11:29 PM
I shot a friend's new sub compact .40 cal today....and it had a magazine that extended below with extra "handle" with that clip in.....which was nice for target shooting, and with a regular clip, its a lot shorter for keeping under your shoulder.

You don't need a Dirty Hairy cannon......You might be more comfortable with a revolver, or a smaller caliber like a .380

Go to a reputable gun shop and explain your situation.....Hold several different types, revolvers and semi-auto pistols and see what "feels nice".

If you know someone that has a lot of guns....go with them and shoot some, maybe someone at a gun club would let you shoot different ones.

Whatever you do...shoot a lot, become very comfortable with the weapon you choose. Know the safety, be able to be ready to roll in the dark, and just as importantly, be able to remove the clip and unchamber it safely too.

Be safe. Practice with the gun you're carrying, or using as a home protection device.

I intend to practice. God knows my social life has gone to sh*t since i got here. Plus, I'm gonna be buddies with the cops. Maybe i can impose on them to go to their range?

Anyway, I do want to know gun safety and get comfy with my choice. Hell, it took a while before i figure out which pool cue I liked, and my life wasn't riding on it.

onescrewleftuntwisted
01-06-2008, 11:34 PM
all you need is a box of grenades, a rubber band gun, and a good sharp stick... the rest comes from lots of the most violent tv show ever to air on television THE GOLDEN GIRLS

Der Flprer
01-06-2008, 11:34 PM
I intend to practice. God knows my social life has gone to sh*t since i got here. Plus, I'm gonna be buddies with the cops. Maybe i can impose on them to go to their range?

Anyway, I do want to know gun safety and get comfy with my choice. Hell, it took a while before i figure out which pool cue I liked, and my life wasn't riding on it.



You showed up here 5 months after I did and have twice as many posts. You HAD a social life? :p

banyon
01-06-2008, 11:49 PM
You showed up here 5 months after I did and have twice as many posts. You HAD a social life? :p

TOUCH-E

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/96/pics/96qperspectives.jpg

stumppy
01-06-2008, 11:49 PM
considering your lack of experience with firearms i'd think a 12 gauge would be your best option. one shot from a 12 gauge will stop any human being in their tracks. i know a guy that was shot three times with a little .32 cal. pistol. he took the pistol away from the guy who shot him and proceeded to beat the living shit out of him. kept his gun too. if you're at home and in a situation that requires deadly force your best option is a weapon that is easy to use, very accurate, and will put a person down with one shot. a 12 gauge loaded with xx buck shot is your best option . imo
get yourself a pistol too if you want something to carry around. theres no law that says you can't have both.

btlook1
01-07-2008, 03:39 AM
considering your lack of experience with firearms i'd think a 12 gauge would be your best option. one shot from a 12 gauge will stop any human being in their tracks. i know a guy that was shot three times with a little .32 cal. pistol. he took the pistol away from the guy who shot him and proceeded to beat the living shit out of him. kept his gun too. if you're at home and in a situation that requires deadly force your best option is a weapon that is easy to use, very accurate, and will put a person down with one shot. a 12 gauge loaded with xx buck shot is your best option . imo
get yourself a pistol too if you want something to carry around. theres no law that says you can't have both.

If you are chummy with the cops I bet they would point you in the right direction as far as CCW and a pistol also......What kind of job do you do that makes you need to carry for protection?

Discuss Thrower
01-07-2008, 04:47 AM
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j96/Logicone/RocketPropelledChainsaw.jpg

Oooooh! I saw this in ZombieWatch Weekly!

DenverChief
01-07-2008, 05:41 AM
Personally if I lived in an apt. I would go with the shot gun. Any pistol round will travel further past the wall unless it hits something on the way through.

Depends on the round..you could always use a glaser safety slug

http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/glaser/glaser.htm


Banyon what kind of job do you have now and what state do you live in?

kstater
01-07-2008, 05:45 AM
Banyon what kind of job do you have now and what state do you live in?


IIRC he's going to be a prosecutor in Witchita, or somewhere around that area.

Edit: Maybe Dodge City

DenverChief
01-07-2008, 05:55 AM
Just a couple of ideas...the dept I work for is split on which to go for...you basically have to use what you are comfortable with

.45 mostly the springfield 1911 but a few guys are starting to carry the Springfield XD

Biggest Minus IMO is the fewer rounds available to you in one magazine (12+1)
Biggest Plus IMO is the size of the round and stopping power

9MM mostly the Glock a few carry Berettas

Biggest Minus is the size of the round
Biggest Plus is the amount of ammo you can carry in one magazine (15+1)

Basically when anyone tells you that a 9mm is a "pussy" round you just tell them it comes down to shot placement....one 9mm in the forehead will put someone down just as fast as a .45

The .40 is not allowed to be carried in our department due to the fact that it is the inbetween round of the 9mm and the .45 it could be chambered in a 9mm and if fired cause injury to the shooter and be fired by a .45 but cause injury to the gun....although I think my next personal purchase will be a .40 aka the happy medium to the .45/9mm debate

DenverChief
01-07-2008, 06:05 AM
IIRC he's going to be a prosecutor in Witchita, or somewhere around that area.

Edit: Maybe Dodge City


okay....for concealed carry I would reccomend you go with these choices


GLOCK 23
Multi purpose .40

Compact dimensions for open and concealed
carry, minimum weight despite large magazine
capacity in .40 caliber. This and the reliability
of the GLOCK pistol known throughout the world,
which was demonstrated through tests and widespread
use by US law enforcement agencies, were decisive
arguments for the F.B.I. and countless police authorities
for introducing the GLOCK 23 as their official service pistol.
http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm


Springfield XD .45ACP Compact
4 inch Service Model

Caliber: .45 ACP
Capacity: 13 + 1
Barrel: 4.04"
Sights: Dovetail front & rear (steel)
Size: 30 ozs. w/ mag., 7.25" overall length
Trigger Pull: 5.5 to 7.7 lbs. Ultra Safety Assurance (USATM) action trigger system
Magazines: 2 Stainless Steel 13 rd., easy glide magazines

From the Manufacturer:
From the moment you pick it up you won't believe it's a 45 ACP, much less one that holds 14 rounds. Of course a polymer pistol of any caliber that feels this good in your hand could only be one thing: an Springfield XD.

This time our engineers have outdone themselves, defying the laws of physics, adding material where needed, shaving it away where it's not ... cramming 14 rounds of 45 ACP punch into a polymer frame that is not perceptibly larger than the one we use for our 9mm and 40 cal. Springfield XDs.

http://www.xdpistols.com/



GLOCK 19 9x19

The all-round talent

The GLOCK 19 is ideal for versatile use
through reduced dimensions compared with
the standard pistol size. With the proven caliber
of 9x19, it has found worldwide distribution in
security services. In addition to being used as a
conventional service weapon, it is suitable for concealed carry or as a backup weapon. For instance, many of the elite pilots
of the USAF trust the GLOCK 19 for their efficient defense in emergency situations.

http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm





Why do I suggest these? Mainly weight, you don't wanna carry a heavy ass Beretta/1911 around as your CCW ....these are also fairly inexpensive. I know with the springfield XD for $500 you get the gun a holster,two extra magazines and a magazine holder...sooo

DenverChief
01-07-2008, 06:38 AM
Oh yeah do not wear the plastic concealed paddle holsters

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Rv49aDzdgc&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Rv49aDzdgc&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Pushead2
01-07-2008, 06:48 AM
Tech 9 would work nicely in a break in event.

DenverChief
01-07-2008, 06:49 AM
Tech 9 would work nicely in a break in event.


LMAO yeah if you don't plan on hitting anything

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ENSdEVWyjrA&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ENSdEVWyjrA&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Pushead2
01-07-2008, 06:51 AM
LMAO yeah if you don't plan on hitting anything

Hey I was born and raised in NYC. They were the "cool" piece to carry. Remember the movie Juice??

BigRedChief
01-07-2008, 06:53 AM
You do realize that with a gun in the house you are more likely to shoot yourself or someone else accidently than to defend yourself, correct?

I'm just saying...:hmmm:

DenverChief
01-07-2008, 06:55 AM
Hey I was born and raised in NYC. They were the "cool" piece to carry. Remember the movie Juice??

holy shit I completely forgot about that movie....

DenverChief
01-07-2008, 06:56 AM
You do realize that with a gun in the house you are more likely to shoot yourself or someone else accidently than to defend yourself, correct?

I'm just saying...:hmmm:


what a crock of shit...no offense

BigRedChief
01-07-2008, 07:03 AM
what a crock of shit...no offense
22 times more likely. Evidence from the Brady Bill website

Does a Gun in the Home Make You Safer?
No. Despite claims by the National Rifle Association (NRA) that you need a gun in your home to protect yourself and your family, public health research demonstrates that the person most likely to shoot you or a family member with a gun already has the keys to your house.

Simply put: guns kept in the home for self-protection are more often used to kill somebody you know than to kill in self-defense; 22 times more likely, according to a 1998 study by the Journal of Trauma.[1 (http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=home#1)] More kids, teenagers and adult family members are dying from firearms in their own home than criminal intruders.

When someone is home, a gun is used for protection in fewer than two percent of home invasion crimes.[2 (http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=home#2)]

You may be surprised to know that, in 1999, according to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, there were only 154 justifiable homicides committed by private citizens with a firearm compared with a total of 8,259 firearm murders in the United States.

Once a bullet leaves a gun, who is to say that it will stop only a criminal and not a family member? Yet at every opportunity the NRA uses the fear of crime to promote the need for ordinary citizens to keep guns in their home for self-protection.

DenverChief
01-07-2008, 07:07 AM
22 times more likely. Evidence from the Brady Bill website

Does a Gun in the Home Make You Safer?
No. Despite claims by the National Rifle Association (NRA) that you need a gun in your home to protect yourself and your family, public health research demonstrates that the person most likely to shoot you or a family member with a gun already has the keys to your house.

Simply put: guns kept in the home for self-protection are more often used to kill somebody you know than to kill in self-defense; 22 times more likely, according to a 1998 study by the Journal of Trauma.[1 (http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=home#1)] More kids, teenagers and adult family members are dying from firearms in their own home than criminal intruders.

When someone is home, a gun is used for protection in fewer than two percent of home invasion crimes.[2 (http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=home#2)]

You may be surprised to know that, in 1999, according to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, there were only 154 justifiable homicides committed by private citizens with a firearm compared with a total of 8,259 firearm murders in the United States.

Once a bullet leaves a gun, who is to say that it will stop only a criminal and not a family member? Yet at every opportunity the NRA uses the fear of crime to promote the need for ordinary citizens to keep guns in their home for self-protection.


JHC on a pogo stick

what a bunch a liberl drivel....I'm not arguing with you on this a) because Banyons thread does not deserve to be banished to DC and b) you just don't understand

DenverChief
01-07-2008, 07:11 AM
Just FYI

Law Enforcement (which includes attorney's) are at higher risk

BigRedChief
01-07-2008, 07:11 AM
JHC on a pogo stick

what a bunch a liberl drivel....I'm not arguing with you on this a) because Banyons thread does not deserve to be banished to DC and b) you just don't understandHey, I'm not on the ban handguns bandwagon. I don't think someone is morally wrong to have a handgun in their house. I don't think any less of anyone that has guns in their house. It's a personal decision and a right gauranteed in the constitution. Just not my idea of good home protection. To each his own.

When I was working for Homeland security I was considered a terriost target because of my access to information. I could have had a conceal and carry permit. They would even have paid for the gun. Thought about it long and hard but decided against it.

Warrior5
01-07-2008, 07:49 AM
I shot a friend's new sub compact .40 cal today....and it had a magazine that extended below with extra "handle" with that clip in.....which was nice for target shooting, and with a regular clip, its a lot shorter for keeping under your shoulder.

Sounds like Iowanian is describing what I was going to recommend...the Springfield XD-40 subcompact.

Perfect for C&C, very reliable, high ratings, and very reasonable price. Has a 3 inch barrel, and comes with two magazines: 10-round for initial conceal, and a 12-round that extends the grip. I have a buddy in Port Angeles PD that uses this as his back-up in a leg holster.

I'm actually pondering getting this myself right now.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?model=2 (http://)

philfree
01-07-2008, 07:55 AM
I've had guns since I was 10 years old. Without supervision. Never once did I think they were for self defense. My advice is that if you live somewhere that makes you feel like you need a gun for protection then move.

PhilFree:arrow:

Radar Chief
01-07-2008, 08:16 AM
Evidence from the Brady Bill website

'Nuff said.

banyon
01-07-2008, 08:46 AM
IIRC he's going to be a prosecutor in Witchita, or somewhere around that area.

Edit: Maybe Dodge City

Correct (at least the second time)

banyon
01-07-2008, 08:46 AM
You do realize that with a gun in the house you are more likely to shoot yourself or someone else accidently than to defend yourself, correct?

I'm just saying...:hmmm:

I live by myself.

Radar Chief
01-07-2008, 08:49 AM
You already moved into Dodge City?
If not, come down to C-Town some weekend. Between my friends and myself we can come up with a variety of handguns you could get some time behind.
If you have, youre still welcome just that Dodge is around 5 hours away and Lawrence is only >2.

BigRedChief
01-07-2008, 08:51 AM
I live by myself.
Sounds like a sad tale.:)

Skip Towne
01-07-2008, 08:51 AM
Good idea. You're going to be meeting some really nice folks.

banyon
01-07-2008, 08:56 AM
You already moved into Dodge City?
If not, come down to C-Town some weekend. Between my friends and myself we can come up with a variety of handguns you could get some time behind.
If you have, youre still welcome just that Dodge is around 5 hours away and Lawrence is only >2.

Yeah Radar I'm here now. Can't you tell by my profile location? I don't think the server allows you to lie about stuff like that. :p


Thanks for the offer though. I'm sure we'd have a good time throwing back a few.

banyon
01-07-2008, 08:59 AM
considering your lack of experience with firearms i'd think a 12 gauge would be your best option. one shot from a 12 gauge will stop any human being in their tracks. i know a guy that was shot three times with a little .32 cal. pistol. he took the pistol away from the guy who shot him and proceeded to beat the living shit out of him. kept his gun too. if you're at home and in a situation that requires deadly force your best option is a weapon that is easy to use, very accurate, and will put a person down with one shot. a 12 gauge loaded with xx buck shot is your best option . imo
get yourself a pistol too if you want something to carry around. theres no law that says you can't have both.

i think I will do this. I'm not sure about the CCH gun yet though.

Do people like the Mossberg for the shotgun? What about the Sig Sauer for the CCH? That's kind of where I'm leaning. Any good practice guns?

penguinz
01-07-2008, 09:16 AM
I am interested in conceal carry too and a practice gun (in the OP).You should practice with the gun you will be firing.

trndobrd
01-07-2008, 09:21 AM
i think I will do this. I'm not sure about the CCH gun yet though.

Do people like the Mossberg for the shotgun? What about the Sig Sauer for the CCH? That's kind of where I'm leaning. Any good practice guns?


I have a Mossberg 500 and have been very pleased with it. I would suggest a traditional grip and buttstock rather than some sort of "tactical" set up. It works just as well and the likelyhood that one of you coworkers will invite you out for some pheasant hunting in the fall is much greater than your need to clear rooms.

I have a Glock 23 (.40SW). There is really no reason that you would need a separate firearm for home and carry. When you get home at night, put it by your bed, next to the flashlight*.

I also have a KEL-TEC P3AT, although it's only .380, it is nice in those situations where I don't want or can't have something bulky and noticable. The powerful handgun in the world is of no use locked in the trunk of your car.

Your best bet is to go to a reputable firing range that will let you fire an assortment of different guns. Pick one you are comfortable with, talk to whoever is in charge of firearms instruction for the Sheriff's Dept. Once you decide on a gun, practice, practice, practice.


*a good, high power LED flashlight is a must.

Radar Chief
01-07-2008, 09:22 AM
Yeah Radar I'm here now. Can't you tell by my profile location? I don't think the server allows you to lie about stuff like that. :p


Thanks for the offer though. I'm sure we'd have a good time throwing back a few.

I'd assumed so, but just checking. Never know with you lawyer types. ;)

TrebMaxx
01-07-2008, 09:27 AM
For the home and especially an Apt. I would go with the Bennelli SuperNova Tactical 12ga. For CCW you can't go wrong with the Springfield Armory XD, my preference would be .45 ACP.

Radar Chief
01-07-2008, 09:33 AM
Do people like the Mossberg for the shotgun?

Mossbergs are good, comparatively cheap, reliable shotgun.
You could spend more on, say, a Benelli, Browning, or Remington and youd get a better quality gun for it, but why have all that money sitting in a closet collecting dust? Since were talking for home defense, youre probably going to take it out shooting what, maybe twice to get used to it? Then itll sit around, hopefully without being necessary.
Id also stick with smaller shot, like say #6 pheasant load. Ive seen 00 Buckshot go completely through a 2X4 at 50 yards. The bigger the shot, the more knockdown power but that comes with an increased likelihood of over penetrating.
#6 up to #2 will give plenty of knockdown power up close but are less likely to penetrate walls injuring someone on the other side.

What about the Sig Sauer for the CCH? That's kind of where I'm leaning. Any good practice guns?

Sig Sauer makes a quality gun. What caliber you looking at?

Radar Chief
01-07-2008, 09:34 AM
You should practice with the gun you will be firing.

X2.

banyon
01-07-2008, 09:37 AM
Sig Sauer makes a quality gun. What caliber you looking at?

I don't know. I'm about 5'10" 160 pounds. Prob. want it for conceal carry and to have some stopping power. What do you think?

tooge
01-07-2008, 09:37 AM
a good snub .357 is ideal for home defense or conceal and carry. Small, easy to handle, packs enough punch. The glock .40 cal is a great gun, but those are the start of the "cannon" calibers, going up. They are a bit harder to shoot. If someone breaks into your house, you are only shooting maybe 20 feet, tops. I have 2 shotguns, one is a browning bps 12 guage with a 22 inch barrel that is pretty nice, but I would probably cut it shorter if I were using it for self defense (I hunt with it).

rad
01-07-2008, 09:47 AM
I recently got my pistol permit and chose a .380 Bersa Thunder as my first "introductory" piece. It got alot of good reviews, and I think it's a good starter- Inexpensive (about 200-300 bucks) ,small, light little kick but loud report- fun to shoot and ammo is relatively inexpensive- about 25 bucks for a box of 100.

Radar Chief
01-07-2008, 09:49 AM
I don't know. I'm about 5'10" 160 pounds. Prob. want it for conceal carry and to have some stopping power. What do you think?

Im a fan of the .45 ACP. They were created specifically for close quarters fighting for the military.
.40 S&W is a pretty good compromise round between the 9mm and .45, like DC pointed out. Mrs. Radar shot a Glock in the .40 Smith caliber loaned to us by her brother for her CC test and was pretty pleased with how it shot.
Im intrigued by those Glaser bullets DC posted, for home protection those rounds could make something like a .357 Mag. a very versatile hand gun.

Frazod
01-07-2008, 10:00 AM
If you're inexperienced with guns, you might want to go with a revolver. Much easier to deal with, won't jam, you can tell by looking at it if its loaded. A .38 would be a good starter revolver, IMO.

I don't personally buy into the shotgun argument for home defense. Think about what you'd have an easier time managing when you're half asleep, scared and fumbling around in the dark - a handgun or a shotgun.

Radar Chief
01-07-2008, 10:02 AM
Basically when anyone tells you that a 9mm is a "pussy" round you just tell them it comes down to shot placement....one 9mm in the forehead will put someone down just as fast as a .45

The .40 is not allowed to be carried in our department due to the fact that it is the inbetween round of the 9mm and the .45 it could be chambered in a 9mm and if fired cause injury to the shooter and be fired by a .45 but cause injury to the gun....although I think my next personal purchase will be a .40 aka the happy medium to the .45/9mm debate

:LOL: I was talking to a couple of old time vets last summer and the story they told me from WWII was that a Nazi officer would shoot an American officer with his 9mm Lugar, which would thoroughly piss him off, so hed pull his Colt .45 and kill the Nazi then limp off to the nearest aid station with a Lugar as a souvenir.

HemiEd
01-07-2008, 10:23 AM
This reminds me of my experience of moving to Chicagoland 12 years ago. I went out and purchased a big bad hog leg immediately! Sorry to say, I have still never fired it! It is a nickel plated, 6 inch barrel .357, very pretty gun. I would probably break my wrist trying to fire it. LMAO

trndobrd
01-07-2008, 10:30 AM
If you're inexperienced with guns, you might want to go with a revolver. Much easier to deal with, won't jam, you can tell by looking at it if its loaded. A .38 would be a good starter revolver, IMO.

I don't personally buy into the shotgun argument for home defense. Think about what you'd have an easier time managing when you're half asleep, scared and fumbling around in the dark - a handgun or a shotgun.


I agree, although I would recommend a .357. Then you have the option of firing .38 to start, then moving up to .357 rounds. Also, the heavier gun will reduce felt recoil, esp for .38 rounds.

The handgun/shotgun argument depends a lot on the layout of your home, where the gun will be stored and your plan of action in event of break in. A small, one bedroom apt may be too small to bother trying to swing around a shotgun (unlike a large, open floor plan house).

The nice thing about a handgun is that you can hold it slightly behind the door, and answer your door without immediately threatening every little kid selling cookies.

banyon
01-07-2008, 10:33 AM
The handgun/shotgun argument depends a lot on the layout of your home, where the gun will be stored and your plan of action in event of break in. A small, one bedroom apt may be too small to bother trying to swing around a shotgun (unlike a large, open floor plan house).
The nice thing about a handgun is that you can hold it slightly behind the door, and answer your door without immediately threatening every little kid selling cookies.


I have a small two BR apt., so that's kind of why I was avoiding the Shotgun.

Frazod
01-07-2008, 10:45 AM
I agree, although I would recommend a .357. Then you have the option of firing .38 to start, then moving up to .357 rounds. Also, the heavier gun will reduce felt recoil, esp for .38 rounds.

The handgun/shotgun argument depends a lot on the layout of your home, where the gun will be stored and your plan of action in event of break in. A small, one bedroom apt may be too small to bother trying to swing around a shotgun (unlike a large, open floor plan house).

The nice thing about a handgun is that you can hold it slightly behind the door, and answer your door without immediately threatening every little kid selling cookies.

Probably not a bad idea on the .357 - I almost said that. I'm just thinking about this from a first gun perspective. .357 with the magnum rounds packs a serious kick.

Frazod
01-07-2008, 10:47 AM
One other thing about a revolver - AND TRUST ME ON THIS ONE - don't pull the hammer back unless you KNOW there's a bad guy and you're ready to shoot.

:shake:

Cochise
01-07-2008, 10:54 AM
Interesting thread, I've been reading about this stuff myself recently. Seems like some good information here.

bogey
01-07-2008, 11:01 AM
JMO, loaded guns in a house is a recipe for disaster. I'm sure you are planning to be very careful and responsible. It's the people that visit you that I would worry about. I'd recommend a dog.

GoHuge
01-07-2008, 11:05 AM
Personally I feel a semi-auto is much safer to have/carry than a revolver. With the semi-auto you have to chamber a shell for it to have anything to fire. A revolver just has to have a trigger pulled. There are many more accidents involving revolvers than semis.

I carry a Glock 19 9mm. 17 in the clip +1. You could be a horrible shot and still get the job done. I took the concealed carry course which was a breeze. I've been hunting and shooting all my life. I can drive nails with that thing. One thing about a Glock is you need to practice shooting it alot. The trigger will half way release after the intial shot. This allows only half a trigger squeeze for the subsequent shots thus increasing the accuracy. The Glock 23 is also a good option. It's a little smaller on the handle and I believe the 9mm holds 13 rounds, but it just doesn't feel as good in your hand as the full size models. A 9mm is all you need and the ammo is much cheaper then a .45. Either way you go I recommend a Packmeyer(sp) slide on grip.

DenverChief
01-07-2008, 11:19 AM
OH SURE Banon don't take any of my advice

:harumph:

Radar Chief
01-07-2008, 11:22 AM
A 9mm is all you need and the ammo is much cheaper then a .45.

Not really. .45 ACP FMJs are about the same price as 9mm FMJs, $13 for a box of 50 at the local Chi Comm support store (a.k.a. WalMart ;)).

Radar Chief
01-07-2008, 11:24 AM
OH SURE Banon don't take any of my advice

:harumph:

Maybe itd help if you spelled his name right. ;)

Skip Towne
01-07-2008, 11:24 AM
OH SURE Banon don't take any of my advice

:harumph:
He doesn't respect you. You spelled his name wrong.

MOhillbilly
01-07-2008, 12:30 PM
Glock

DenverChief
01-07-2008, 12:36 PM
Maybe itd help if you spelled his name right. ;)
:banghead:

BigRedChief
01-07-2008, 12:49 PM
OH SURE Banon don't take any of my advice

:harumph:
http://www.dreamagic.com/vivianrose/hytner.gif
That's gold Jerry

MOhillbilly
01-07-2008, 12:52 PM
I have a small two BR apt., so that's kind of why I was avoiding the Shotgun.

id go with a shotgun in a small area. if you get the correct load and choke its much more tactical than a sidearm.

500 mariner is what i have and shes a bad little shotgun, start at about 3-350 new in box. 18.5in barrel,6round tube,bead sights,pistol grip option,chambered for 2/34 and 3in mag.
check out gunsamerica.com aswell.

Demonpenz
01-07-2008, 12:55 PM
you probably shouldn't have a gun of you have drinking problems

MOhillbilly
01-07-2008, 12:58 PM
does kansas have right to carry?

MOhillbilly
01-07-2008, 12:58 PM
you probably shouldn't have a gun of you have drinking problems

are you drunk now?

Demonpenz
01-07-2008, 01:02 PM
i am not drunk now but i know how dumb i am without whiskey. I know better than to have sharp items or guns around when drinking

bkkcoh
01-07-2008, 01:28 PM
my aunt has a C&C license in Texas and she is in her 60's

GoHuge
01-07-2008, 01:45 PM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by MOhillbilly
does kansas have right to carry?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes they do....went into effect Jan 07. 47 of 50 states have conceal carry laws. I forget the three that don't.





Not really. .45 ACP FMJs are about the same price as 9mm FMJs, $13 for a box of 50 at the local Chi Comm support store (a.k.a. WalMart ;)).Well yeah it depends on the type/quality. I was going to buy a .40 but the ammo was considerably more expensive and I had 4 high cap Glock 9mm mags. Those use to go for $90 on E-Bay when that stupid Brady Bill was in force. Now with my new one I've got six. In case they re enact that bill those could be worth some money again someday. Those 10 round clips just don't do it for me.

Radar Chief
01-07-2008, 01:49 PM
does kansas have right to carry?

Yes.

Radar Chief
01-07-2008, 02:22 PM
Here's what you need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bm0QbqSywU

;)

trndobrd
01-07-2008, 04:52 PM
Personally I feel a semi-auto is much safer to have/carry than a revolver. With the semi-auto you have to chamber a shell for it to have anything to fire. A revolver just has to have a trigger pulled. There are many more accidents involving revolvers than semis.




Link?


You carry your glock without a round chambered? Why not just carry a hammer? If it is carried with a round in the chamber, then it is nearly identical to carrying a revolver in that, like the revolver, the glock has no external safety.

Raiderhader
01-07-2008, 04:57 PM
JHC on a pogo stick

what a bunch a liberl drivel....I'm not arguing with you on this a) because Banyons thread does not deserve to be banished to DC and b) you just don't understand



:spock: I feel like i just stepped into the twilight zone. WTF has been going around here?

BigOlChiefsfan
01-07-2008, 05:36 PM
Good on ya. My advice is to edumacate yourself before you spend much money. For every dollar you plan to spend, spend 10 minutes on research. That's a lotta looking. But you live in Dodge, so I'm guessing you have some downtime.

I own a lot of pistols. 9's, .45s, 38's, .357's, 380's. The XD .45 'service', a .380 Bersa and a 9x18 Makarov are my personal favorite 'carry guns'. Makarovs WERE a lot easier to find 2 years ago, the Bulgarian imports have dried up, but they're out there if you want one. Just a bit spendier than they were. Sturdy, danged accurate, 'powerful enough' for me. Plan to buy ammo online/gun shows, it's out there but NOT at @ Goobers Cash n Go.

There's something to be said for carrying 'service weapons' like police trade-in revolvers, the Mak, the 1911 and various CZ models and Glocks. If they're tough enough for everyday wear by pro's, they're plenty good for you.

Mouse guns = small pistols. Spend some time reading here:

http://www.mouseguns.com/index.htm

This fellow seldom meets a gun he doesn't like - so take with a grain of salt. Useful info, tho

http://www.gunblast.com/index.html

Get an idea of gun prices here (delivered, but without the 'Fee' that gun dealers charge to take the transfer. Brady Bill at work).

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21

Bersa:
http://www.bersapistols.com/

Mak
http://www.tucsonguns.com/Makarov_Shootout.php#how

CZ 82, I'd buy one of these in a NY Minute. Czech service gun (CZ makes EXCELLENT weapons)
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Czech_CZ-82_9x18_Pistol.html

Reviews + info:
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/

Gun Rags. Read and learn, but bring a box or 2 of salt:
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/
http://www.shotgunnews.com/
http://www.shootingtimes.com/

You mentioned Sigs - they make a fine gun BUT you're buying a cadillac and you can't drive yet. If you have $800 to spend on guns/ammo I'd suggest that you spend $250-300 on a decent police trade in pistol (Shotgun News magazine will carry them, ask your local pawn shop to order it -cheapest way to buy these) and spend the rest on ammo and lessons, rather than buy a $750 pistol that you can't afford to go shoot more than 3 boxes of ammo thru. You can always buy the Sig after you can tell your a$$ from your elbow, you won't lose a cent buying and selling used police guns. If nothing but a Sig will do...here's a decent set of Euro Poleece Sig trade ins.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Sig_Sauer_P225_P6_9mm_Pistol.html

dtebbe
01-07-2008, 07:35 PM
One gun will do it all:
S&W Airweight (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14793)

Then get a set of hip grips for concealed carry without any annoying straps or holsters:
http://www.baramihipgrip.com/

This has been my carry setup for about 10 years now, luckily I've never had to use it.

For home I would go with a shotgun. I always said pump shotgun until I saw that thread posted on here last week with the single shot with the elastic shell holder on the butt. That is one sweet (and cheap) setup.

I think this little critter would make a nice home defense shotgun for under $200 (The Tamer 20):
http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/tamer.aspx

DT

banyon
01-07-2008, 07:54 PM
Here's what you need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bm0QbqSywU

;)

LOL, Is this your wife Radar? :p

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PastorMikH
01-07-2008, 08:07 PM
LOL, Is this your wife Radar? :p



ROFLROFL


Saw that one coming. Thank goodness her finger didn't find the trigger again as it hit her nose.

Dayze
01-07-2008, 09:03 PM
Most have probably already intimated; if you're simply looking for home protection; can't go wrong with a shotgun of some sort.

My ultimate dream would be to defend my home with a cross bow; lol. "Can you describe the intruder"?
"Yes, officer. He has an arrow sticking out of his chest"

TN_Chief
01-07-2008, 09:06 PM
Home defense: a shotgun, no doubt. With a light load you don't have to worry too much about blowing through walls.

Concealed carry: I carry an HK USPc in .45. I'd recommend a .45 or .40...IMO 9mm is a bit too light. But probably more important is a gun that you're comfortable carrying. If you buy something that's too big or too heavy you'll stop carrying it...which kind of defeats the purpose.

Dayze
01-07-2008, 09:20 PM
Home defense: a shotgun, no doubt. With a light load you don't have to worry too much about blowing through walls.

Concealed carry: I carry an HK USPc in .45. I'd recommend a .45 or .40...IMO 9mm is a bit too light. But probably more important is a gun that you're comfortable carrying. If you buy something that's too big or too heavy you'll stop carrying it...which kind of defeats the purpose.

Yep; get a weapon for CC your comfortable handling and shooting accurately. I would suggest going to a shooting range and renting several models. I did this; and what I thought i wanted Beretta 9mm....was not for me. Grip was too fat, didn't 'fit' me; ended up with the Springfield XD9 which I can shoot the crap out of; love it. very similar to the Glock 19 I believe. I'd love to have a nice Kimber UC II for conceal carry :drool: just no $$$ at the moment.

DenverChief
01-08-2008, 01:09 AM
I'd recommend a .45 or .40...IMO 9mm is a bit too light.

how do you figure?

DenverChief
01-08-2008, 01:09 AM
ROFLROFL


Saw that one coming. Thank goodness her finger didn't find the trigger again as it hit her nose.


probably why he only put one round in it ;)

MOhillbilly
01-08-2008, 06:46 AM
Home defense: a shotgun, no doubt. With a light load you don't have to worry too much about blowing through walls.

Concealed carry: I carry an HK USPc in .45. I'd recommend a .45 or .40...IMO 9mm is a bit too light. But probably more important is a gun that you're comfortable carrying. If you buy something that's too big or too heavy you'll stop carrying it...which kind of defeats the purpose.

whatda ya carry it in a shoulder rig?

MOhillbilly
01-08-2008, 06:47 AM
probably why he only put one round in it ;)

wtf did he load it like that?

D/E have a slide lever on the slide.

GoHuge
01-08-2008, 07:43 AM
Link?


You carry your glock without a round chambered? Why not just carry a hammer? If it is carried with a round in the chamber, then it is nearly identical to carrying a revolver in that, like the revolver, the glock has no external safety.I was referring to in the home. In the house if someone inexperienced comes across a Glock unchambered and pulls the trigger it is going to go click. A revolver is going to get real loud thus cause more accidents. I don't have a link, that's just common sense. When I carry it of course it's cocked locked and ready to roll.

rad
01-08-2008, 07:48 AM
I was referring to in the home. In the house if someone inexperienced comes across a Glock unchambered and pulls the trigger it is going to go click. A revolver is going to get real loud thus cause more accidents. I don't have a link, that's just common sense. When I carry it of course it's cocked locked and ready to roll.

That's another reason I chose the Bersa- it has an external safety plus an integrated trigger lock system. The key is on my keychain-it's like a reverse hex key. You can kinda see it in the picture I posted (post #57)

Radar Chief
01-08-2008, 07:53 AM
LOL, Is this your wife Radar? :p

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dFJjaj7pXsA&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dFJjaj7pXsA&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Ha, no. ROFL Id bet her reaction to shooting a .50 Desert Eagle would be about the same though.



Oh, BTW. 100!

DenverChief
01-08-2008, 08:05 AM
wtf did he load it like that?

D/E have a slide lever on the slide.


:shrug: would have been just as easy IMO to put one round in the magazine and rack the slide....maybe he didn't have a magazine handy...

AFAIK all semi-auto handguns have slide levers

trndobrd
01-08-2008, 01:54 PM
I was referring to in the home. In the house if someone inexperienced comes across a Glock unchambered and pulls the trigger it is going to go click. A revolver is going to get real loud thus cause more accidents. I don't have a link, that's just common sense. When I carry it of course it's cocked locked and ready to roll.



If it's that much of a concern, leave the next chamber empty, or the cylinder out. At least with a revolver you can immediately determine if the weapon is loaded.

Still waiting for those statistics showing more accidents with revolvers than automatics.

HonestChieffan
01-08-2008, 01:57 PM
Whatever you plan to do do it before a democrat goes in cause all 3 top runners are fulkl square anti gun. Buy it private treaty so there is no paperwork or they will be checking you out fpor the next 8 years

GoHuge
01-08-2008, 02:41 PM
If it's that much of a concern, leave the next chamber empty, or the cylinder out. At least with a revolver you can immediately determine if the weapon is loaded.

Still waiting for those statistics showing more accidents with revolvers than automatics.Again no link just common sense. How many people really leave the next chamber empty? Do you really argue that a loaded revolver is less likely to go off accidentally or cause an accident than a semi auto that is unchambered? Maybe a single action revolver that has to be cocked to fire. I see your very passionaite about revolvers but come on :rolleyes:

trndobrd
01-08-2008, 05:05 PM
Again no link just common sense. How many people really leave the next chamber empty? Do you really argue that a loaded revolver is less likely to go off accidentally or cause an accident than a semi auto that is unchambered? Maybe a single action revolver that has to be cocked to fire. I see your very passionaite about revolvers but come on :rolleyes:


Personally I feel a semi-auto is much safer to have/carry than a revolver. With the semi-auto you have to chamber a shell for it to have anything to fire. A revolver just has to have a trigger pulled. There are many more accidents involving revolvers than semis.



Your statement was "There are many more accidents involving revolvers that semis." To broadly announce that there are more accidents involving one type of firearm based on sheer speculation is not helpful. As you will notice in my previous posts, I carry a Glock23 or Kel-Tec .380, both autos

Since you don't have any statistical evidence to back up your definitive statement of handgun safety, you rely on "common sense". So, based on "common sense" how often does someone pick up a strange firearm and start pulling the trigger? More or less often than someone has a doublefeed or stovepipe and inadvertantly fires the weapon while trying to clear it? How about the number of times someone "clears" an automatic with the magazine still in? The fact of the matter is that for someone who seldom shoots, doesn't have clearance of a stoppage committed to muscle memory, or is easily distracted, a revolver may well be the safer option.

FWIW, up until the advent of modern revolvers and hammer blocks, everyone left the hammer on an empty chamber.

Bob Dole
01-29-2008, 10:21 AM
I also have a KEL-TEC P3AT, although it's only .380, it is nice in those situations where I don't want or can't have something bulky and noticable. The powerful handgun in the world is of no use locked in the trunk of your car.

Bob Dole just picked up one of these over the weekend and is looking forward to giving her a workout this coming weekend.