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Donger
01-08-2008, 10:27 PM
We can disagree on Social Security, how to tax the wealthy, campaign finances, nuclear proliferation, etc, and that's fine. I'm perfectly capable of having a civil conversation in any of those regards.

What I want to know is why overt racism *should* be tacitly accepted in 2008.

You may well be capable of being civil discussing such topics, but you must admit that your track record doesn't demonstrate that with much success. Remember the thread about missile defense?

As to why overt racism should be tacitly accepted, you really should open your mind to the fact that not everyone thinks and has opinions as you do. Why do you think that your opinions should be the benchmark? Do you really think that you are qualified to make such determinations?

Logical
01-08-2008, 10:28 PM
Would they change the name of his home to The Black House?ROFL

Der Flöprer
01-08-2008, 10:29 PM
That's "Malcolm," you ignorant, myopic f*ck.



LMAO LMAO LMAO

Der Flöprer
01-08-2008, 10:31 PM
ROFL all this hate even has the "The Man"s fightin-lol

I actually got called a Cracker the other day.


instead of typing Cracker, type c r a c k e r. I'll do it for you. cracker. No lie. LMAO

Der Flöprer
01-08-2008, 10:35 PM
You keep slinging mud and yet I've yet to get any on me. Keep trying though. Since you're convinced I'm a "piece of shit" there's not a whole lot I can do about it now. Believe me, it's going to trouble me for days too. Gosh, Mr. Jenkins doesn't like me because I don't care for Muslims. How am I ever going to parent my kids now?

You may be some kind of super-special intellectual but you're emotionally stunted and immature. You seem to believe that the only answer to controversy is to lash out and crush the opposition without even a consideration that maybe you should seek clarification - "hey, what did you mean by that?" It's a shame, such a sad waste of potential too.

For reference, I'll not be entertaining future verbal jousts with you. It's not productive or even entertaining - hence, not worth my time. Best of luck to you.


A ton of that goes on around here. It's a shame when it's of such a serious nature.

MadMax
01-08-2008, 10:37 PM
Holy mother of God, are all the moderators asleep?:p

How has this thread stayed in the main forum for 495 posts?:hmmm:


racist bigot... :p

doomy3
01-08-2008, 10:40 PM
:PPL:

Logical
01-08-2008, 11:05 PM
What if I were merely a passenger on an airplane or a citizen minding my own business typing on my computer at work?

Then I would say you are basically a religious bigot and I would be done discussing the issue with you. The one thing I seemed to have learned lately is that religious bigots want you to share their bigotry and won't listen to logical arguments against that bigotry.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 11:08 PM
Other people might see things differently, but a few things came to my mind when I read your post:

1. Do you really consider slavery to be just another form of immigration?

Oh, please, when will this pity-party end? No African-American alive today was ever a slave, nor were there parents, nor their grandparents. Slavery ended in 1865, unless you wish to talk about the virtual slavery of economic hardship but then African-Americans aren’t alone anymore, are they? Do you think the Chinese who laid railroads or the Mexican field workers were treated better than African Americans in the century following the abolition of slavery? No, they were abused equally as were many immigrant groups. Do you know what was said about the Irish immigrants in the late 19th century?- they would do the jobs that (derogatory name for blacks) wouldn’t do.

2. Do you understand that blacks were stripped of their entire identities (names, history, language, religion, culture, customs, etc.) when they were brought to America as slaves?

Yeah, who wasn’t? Again, African-Americans are not alone in this regard. All immigrants lose cultural characteristics of their homeland, in the past this was often by coercion and sometimes force. Most immigrants, by choice or not, become homogenized Americans. Although the original slaves brought to the Americas from the 16th century through the 19th century certainly had less choice in the matter than other immigrants, I would say that by the late 19th century and early 20th century they had certain advantages over other immigrants: they spoke the language, they shared the religion, they ate the food, they knew the customs.

3. Is it unreasonable to think that a group of people who are descendants of those slaves, would at a later date get together and develop new customs, language, etc., to try to form some kind of bond with other people in the same situation?

I could make argument against this but, let’s just say I agree with this (I don’t) and discuss it for a moment. Do you think African-Americans are well-served by their new cultural identity? What are the characteristics of African-American culture? Non-standard English, non-standard dress, poor academic achievement and a propensity to impregnate without thought or care of parental responsibility. What do you think is the perception of a people who don’t speak “proper” English, fail out of school, impregnate women like some sort of sexual Johnny Apple Seeds and aren’t smart enough to wear their pants over their underwear? Why would a group who goes out of their way to emphasize their differences expect to receive standard treatment from the majority?


The minority groups that you are comparing blacks to for the most part CHOSE to come to the US. They came to the US fully aware of where they came from and know what they are leaving behind.

Who cares? Do you think most third, fourth and fifth generation Americans know exactly where their ancestors were from? They might know which countries but that is probably the extent of their knowledge. Allow me to answer this great mystery for you; if you are African-American then your ancestors came from west or central Africa.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make. It sounds like you are saying that after 4 or 8 years of Obama as president, there will continue to be different dialects of English being used by black people.
Hell, if that is what you are saying, I guess I agree with that. Kind of hard not to. I can't think of one past US president, who stopped people from having accents. And I don't believe that is the president's job anyway.

That isn’t at all the point I am making. The point is that African-Americans go out of their way to look, speak and act in a non-standard way and wonder why they might get a non-standard response from everyone else. I know, I know… it’s a black thang, I wouldn’t understand except that it is not a black thing- it is an African-American thing. Black people in other countries don’t behave like African-Americans and, this might surprise you, often black people from other countries don’t like African-Americans. And you know what is sad? All of these differences could probably be accepted in today’s politically correct society if African-Americans were willing to modify their speech and behavior to the standards when appropriate. Learn the standards and know when to use them and you will live a happier life.

:bravo:
Post of the fugging year.
My hat's off to you.
Hit every nail on the head.
Thanks.

I feel smarter.
Mic will tell me I hate myself.

Mr. Kotter
01-08-2008, 11:11 PM
If Obama wins the White House in '08, will minorities stop using "the man is holding them down" as an excuse?

Wondering if it will give minorities (or the country) in general a paradigm shift. Will it actually break down racial tensions for the country?

It SHOULD, but as long as guys like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton lead the so-called modern "civil rights" lobby....

it won't. Stupid, counter-productive tactics seem....reasonable, especially to those who are reverse-racists. JMHO

Phobia
01-08-2008, 11:22 PM
Then I would say you are basically a religious bigot and I would be done discussing the issue with you. The one thing I seemed to have learned lately is that religious bigots want you to share their bigotry and won't listen to logical arguments against that bigotry.
Why would I want anybody to feel the same way I do? I have a discomfort with Muslims - your experience may be different. I've listened to all the arguments and I'm aware that it paints me in a light in which I don't appear to conform to current standards of acceptable or "correct" behavior. Guess what - I do not care. I don't conform to what everybody else's idea of what I should be. I don't answer to them.

Am I aware there are Muslims that are fine, upstanding individuals? Certainly. I've not encountered any of them but I can acknowledge they likely exist. I'm also certain there are upstanding Scientologists. I'm not required to like them. I'm not required to do business with them. I'm not required to associate with them. I'm not required to vote for them. It's my prerogative.

Does it make me a racist? Absolutely not.

Does it make me a bigot? I suppose it does for some people. But I believe bigotry is fueled by hatred and I've not expressed any hatred for Muslims - merely a dislike. I've been pretty consistent in my description of that emotion. In my eyes and in the eyes of those who actually know me, I'm not a bigot but I understand why there are those who would wish to impose that label upon me.

Mr. Kotter
01-08-2008, 11:25 PM
Then I would say you are basically a religious bigot and I would be done discussing the issue with you. The one thing I seemed to have learned lately is that religious bigots want you to share their bigotry and won't listen to logical arguments against that bigotry.

Damn, Jim....any past, or future, references to you as "Logical" ought to be banned.

Profiling is rational; it's not racist....except in the minds of the ignorant and blind, IMHO. :shake:

doomy3
01-08-2008, 11:29 PM
Why would I want anybody to feel the same way I do? I have a discomfort with Muslims - your experience may be different. I've listened to all the arguments and I'm aware that it paints me in a light in which I don't appear to conform to current standards of acceptable or "correct" behavior. Guess what - I do not care. I don't conform to what everybody else's idea of what I should be. I don't answer to them.

Am I aware there are Muslims that are fine, upstanding individuals? Certainly. I've not encountered any of them but I can acknowledge they likely exist. I'm also certain there are upstanding Scientologists. I'm not required to like them. I'm not required to do business with them. I'm not required to associate with them. I'm not required to vote for them. It's my prerogative.

Does it make me a racist? Absolutely not.

Does it make me a bigot? I suppose it does for some people. But I believe bigotry is fueled by hatred and I've not expressed any hatred for Muslims - merely a dislike. I've been pretty consistent in my description of that emotion. In my eyes and in the eyes of those who actually know me, I'm not a bigot but I understand why there are those who would wish to impose that label upon me.


I think that's fair...

Demonpenz
01-09-2008, 12:47 AM
Sometimes I daydream about another charity event or something for chiefsplanet to help people but the lack of respect on some of these threads quickly stomps that out. I alot of disrespectful things to I guess.

DaneMcCloud
01-09-2008, 01:03 AM
Why would I want anybody to feel the same way I do? I have a discomfort with Muslims - your experience may be different. I've listened to all the arguments and I'm aware that it paints me in a light in which I don't appear to conform to current standards of acceptable or "correct" behavior. Guess what - I do not care. I don't conform to what everybody else's idea of what I should be. I don't answer to them.

Am I aware there are Muslims that are fine, upstanding individuals? Certainly. I've not encountered any of them but I can acknowledge they likely exist. I'm also certain there are upstanding Scientologists. I'm not required to like them. I'm not required to do business with them. I'm not required to associate with them. I'm not required to vote for them. It's my prerogative.

Does it make me a racist? Absolutely not.

Does it make me a bigot? I suppose it does for some people. But I believe bigotry is fueled by hatred and I've not expressed any hatred for Muslims - merely a dislike. I've been pretty consistent in my description of that emotion. In my eyes and in the eyes of those who actually know me, I'm not a bigot but I understand why there are those who would wish to impose that label upon me.

I have a discomfort with Russians. Not people of Russian ancestry but actual Russian immigrants in the U.S.

I grew up in Kansas, during the latter stages of the Cold War. Russians were the enemy. Movies were made and Americans were taught (rightfully so) that Russia was the enemy. The world could end at any moment due to the Russian-USA problems. In the summer of 1980 during an intense heatwave, my elderly grandmother suggested it was the Russians who made it so hot that year. Paranoia and fear was prevalent.

Fast forward to Los Angeles, 1995 and my next door neighbor in my cheap, run down apartment is Russian. They fight and argue in Russian every night. Their children speak Russian and fight, yell and argue every night. There's a section of Hollywood that's mostly Russian. Standing in line next to Russians is uncomfortable because they're used to standing in line hungry. They stand so close that it feels like an invasion of privacy. It was very unnerving and unsettling.

I haven't experienced near the pain or heartache that Phobia has experienced. But if the leading Presidential nominee was a man named Sergeyev Vasilyev, I seriously doubt I could vote for him. I may be wrong with that position, but there's no one that can tell me that it's not justified.

Bottom line: Don't judge a man until you've walked for miles in his shoes.

patteeu
01-09-2008, 01:09 AM
Holy mother of God, are all the moderators asleep?:p

How has this thread stayed in the main forum for 495 posts?:hmmm:

It's the good old days again.

MadMax
01-09-2008, 02:14 AM
Bottom line: Don't judge a man until you've walked for miles in his shoes.

Hard to get a man's shoes to test this theory. :)

Logical
01-09-2008, 03:23 AM
Why would I want anybody to feel the same way I do? I have a discomfort with Muslims - your experience may be different. I've listened to all the arguments and I'm aware that it paints me in a light in which I don't appear to conform to current standards of acceptable or "correct" behavior. Guess what - I do not care. I don't conform to what everybody else's idea of what I should be. I don't answer to them.

Am I aware there are Muslims that are fine, upstanding individuals? Certainly. I've not encountered any of them but I can acknowledge they likely exist. I'm also certain there are upstanding Scientologists. I'm not required to like them. I'm not required to do business with them. I'm not required to associate with them. I'm not required to vote for them. It's my prerogative.

Does it make me a racist? Absolutely not.

Does it make me a bigot? I suppose it does for some people. But I believe bigotry is fueled by hatred and I've not expressed any hatred for Muslims - merely a dislike. I've been pretty consistent in my description of that emotion. In my eyes and in the eyes of those who actually know me, I'm not a bigot but I understand why there are those who would wish to impose that label upon me.You might not, but generally one individual who dislikes another group will try to find like minded individuals and failing the ability to find those like minded individuals they will try to convince others to be like minded because their is power and to a certain degree safety in numbers.

I really have litttle to disagree with in this post, except that it is a fine line between hatred and dislike, a line that is difficult to apply consistently, so this is dangerous territory.

BigRedChief
01-09-2008, 04:00 AM
Am I aware there are Muslims that are fine, upstanding individuals? Certainly. I've not encountered any of them but I can acknowledge they likely exist.
I went to school as an adult with a former Iranian.
He fought in the army to overthrow the Shaw and install the religious allatoyah's. He spent 2 years in the war against Iraq. His unit had chemical warfare used against it several times. He watched many of his friends die.

When his tour was up he realized that these fanatics were never going to be good for his country and immigrated to the U.S.A. He met and married a local gal. His son was one week younger than mine. We were studying the same thing in college so my family and his became friends. My son and his son became friends.

Since he has arrived here in America he has dedicated his life to helping others. He has turned down positions with more pay and prestige to work with the poor. Our nation and community is much better because he's here. He has saved many of his fellow Americans lives.

He was at our house at the party you attended last week just at a different time. I wish you could have met him.

HonestChieffan
01-09-2008, 07:17 AM
Well He lost. Now what?

BigRedChief
01-09-2008, 07:38 AM
Well He lost. Now what? All it means is that Hillary lived to fight another day. It won't be decided until Super Tuesday.

Baby Lee
01-09-2008, 07:50 AM
Well He lost. Now what?
Open caucuses and private ballots yield different results?
The crying jag worked with chicks?
The Dems are scared of a tidal wave nominee?
McCain stole Obama's independents?

patteeu
01-09-2008, 07:58 AM
Well He lost. Now what?

"The man" fixed the election.

Radar Chief
01-09-2008, 08:26 AM
Bottom line: Don't judge a man until you've walked for miles in his shoes.

At least then he’ll be a mile away and barefoot. ;)

HonestChieffan
01-09-2008, 08:28 AM
Muslims shoes explode.

Pennywise
01-09-2008, 08:32 AM
Muslims shoes explode.

They do when they get strafed.

SFW

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5e8_1191374902

bkkcoh
01-09-2008, 08:33 AM
"The man" fixed the election.


Don't talk about Hilliary like that....... :banghead:

vailpass
01-09-2008, 08:44 AM
Baby Daddy is going to have a tough go against Mr. Clinton, apparently.

If Mr. Clinton wins will the "the woman" excuses stop?

go bowe
01-10-2008, 07:25 PM
Actually He is not even a Muslim. I have no problem with him :) Or any other peace loving American If he wins he wins then they can call him da debil and do the same stupid shit Americans do when they elect a Prez...It's all the same Just different angles. I can't wait for the day the volunteer Army decides to not volunteer and everyone gets what they have asked for. Bleh I'm outta whiskey "thank God" and thanks to Morphius I'm not as angry as b4... :p No offense intended to anyone I'm just outta control damnit!!!

It's ok my posts are mostly ignored anyways so a FU racists bastard or hey piss off would be welcome.ok, FU racists bastard or hey piss off!!

The Mad Crapper
08-27-2010, 07:42 AM
If Obama wins the White House in '08, will minorities stop using "the man is holding them down" as an excuse?

Wondering if it will give minorities (or the country) in general a paradigm shift. Will it actually break down racial tensions for the country?

Is your curiosity still piqued?