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wutamess
01-07-2008, 10:19 PM
If Obama wins the White House in '08, will minorities stop using "the man is holding them down" as an excuse?

Wondering if it will give minorities (or the country) in general a paradigm shift. Will it actually break down racial tensions for the country?

HolmeZz
01-07-2008, 10:22 PM
Probably should be in DC and judging by how most race threads go, I don't think this will end up in intelligent conversation.

banyon
01-07-2008, 10:25 PM
Uh, if you are leaning left, this thread has to go to DC. If you're a rightie, it's ok, it can stay here for a while, until a leftie makes a few points about it.

BCD
01-07-2008, 10:26 PM
I wonder how many ignorant rednecks actually think Obama would put 22's on the motorcade?

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 10:26 PM
Interesting question, Roger.

I feel I know the answer based on your conversations on here, but since I've only met you once, feel better flat out asking.....

Do YOU feel "The Man" is holding YOU down?

If no, as I suspect, could you explain why others feel that way?

wutamess
01-07-2008, 10:28 PM
Interesting question, Roger.

I feel I know the answer based on your conversations on here, but since I've only met you once, feel better flat out asking.....

Do YOU feel "The Man" is holding YOU down?

If no, as I suspect, could you explain why others feel that way?


Nope! hate it.
I think it's used as a crutch for people to succeed at failing.

BCD
01-07-2008, 10:28 PM
I feel gravity holding me down...

Ari Chi3fs
01-07-2008, 10:30 PM
If Obama wins, some idiot will attempt to kill him due to idiotic prejudice bullshit.

If he has major traction, I wouldn't be surprised if they Bobby Kennedy'd his ass.

SBK
01-07-2008, 10:31 PM
Won't change a thing. Raising the idea of "the man" keeping people down is big business for some.

dtebbe
01-07-2008, 10:32 PM
No, only now it will be white people using it....

DT

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 10:34 PM
Nope! hate it.
I think it's used as a crutch for people to succeed at failing.

As I expected. But had to ask.

wutamess
01-07-2008, 10:35 PM
If Obama wins, some idiot will attempt to kill him due to idiotic prejudice bullshit.

If he has major traction, I wouldn't be surprised if they Bobby Kennedy'd his ass.

I've been following him closely the last coupla days and he now has the Secret Service protecting him. Apparently, just as secure as Bush.

If someone hasn't offed him... I'd like to think that it'd be just as impossible to get to Obama.

But the right war crazies love Bush so I guess it wouldn't be too hard protecting against a bunch of non-violent tree huggers.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 10:39 PM
The singular success of one Black man will absolutely end any and all vigilance relative to racism and structural inequality. [/sarcasm]

God knows there couldn't be any truth to what the rabble-rousers have been saying for the last several hundred years.

Obama taking office will lift the skirt on our dirty little secret.
*Bites nails*

wutamess
01-07-2008, 10:41 PM
The singular success of one Black man will absolutely end any and all vigilance relative to racism and structural inequality. [/sarcasm]


I know it wont end it all but will the excuses tone down? or go away a little bit?

wutamess
01-07-2008, 10:42 PM
God knows there couldn't be any truth to what the rabble-rousers have been saying for the last several hundred years.

Obama taking office will lift the skirt on our dirty little secret.
*Bites nails*

You lost me. please explain. (not being facetious).

MadMax
01-07-2008, 10:42 PM
Won't change a thing. Raising the idea of "the man" keeping people down is big business for some.


The " man " still holding me back... :banghead: I coulda been a contender. :rolleyes: Truth be told , I F'D up myself with no help from da man... It's a myth.

BigRedChief
01-07-2008, 10:43 PM
Obama will be our next president. And hopefully certain parts of the country will get over it and realize its a new day in the good ole U.S.A.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 10:44 PM
I know it wont end it all but will the excuses tone down? or go away a little bit?

It's difficult to say, but...

To cease being vigilant simply because Obama may become our next President would be a tragedy.

Cochise
01-07-2008, 10:45 PM
I'm not a supporter of his, but I think it's a great thing that a state like Iowa, that is what, 98% white, showed that they would choose a black man for president.

I think it's a good step. I hope we can all look forward to a day where when we think about people, we don't even think about their race, a day where race is as unimportant to perception as your hair color or eye color or something. There's still a long way to go, but it's a nice milestone in our country's history.

Ari Chi3fs
01-07-2008, 10:46 PM
I think Obama seems like a great guy. Most politicians suck... I haven't found anything linking him to Bilderberg, Trilateral, Skull Bones, or CFR yet... so I doubt he wins.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 10:47 PM
That will be a glorious day, but until we acknowledge the problems staring us in the face we'll get no closer to it.

Apathy and ignorance don't lead the way there...

wutamess
01-07-2008, 10:48 PM
I think Obama seems like a great guy. Most politicians suck... I haven't found anything linking him to Bilderberg, Trilateral, Skull Bones, or CFR yet... so I doubt he wins.

I was thinking about that too.
But somehow I think he wins.

irishjayhawk
01-07-2008, 10:48 PM
Didn't the "black leaders" say he wasn't "black enough"? I thought that's what they said.

It is a good step in the right direction.

BigRedChief
01-07-2008, 10:48 PM
It's difficult to say, but...

To cease being vigilant simply because Obama may become our next President would be a tragedy.
Comeon Micjones enjoy the moment. White America is voting for a black man to lead them. They are obviously judging him based on the content of his message and judgement. They don't give a chit about the color of his skin. It's a major step forward.

BigRedChief
01-07-2008, 10:50 PM
I was thinking about that too.
But somehow I think he wins.
There is going to be backlash against the Republicans and Bush. Obama is going to win.

wutamess
01-07-2008, 10:51 PM
There is going to be backlash against the Republicans and Bush. Obama is going to win.

Freagin Huckabee has "God" on his side though... That's what got Bush his support.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 10:52 PM
Didn't the "black leaders" say he wasn't "black enough"? I thought that's what they said.


Actually no.

A very White Peter Beinart did, but don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.

greg63
01-07-2008, 10:52 PM
Isn't there a DC forum for this kind of thing?

el borracho
01-07-2008, 10:53 PM
If Obama wins the White House in '08, will minorities stop using "the man is holding them down" as an excuse?
I've really only ever heard one minority group use that phrase and that group goes out of their way to be different- different way of speaking, different way of dressing, etc.

I know I have posted this before but... most immigrants lose their accents completely by the third generation while one minority group has developed and maintained a style of speech, different from all other Americans; why is this?

Based on what I think the answer is, I would say that 4 or 8 years of Obama in the White House will change nothing among that group.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 10:53 PM
Comeon Micjones enjoy the moment. White America is voting for a black man to lead them. They are obviously judging him based on the content of his message and judgement. They don't give a chit about the color of his skin. It's a major step forward.

It's progress, but I'm not ready to forget about everything else going on in the world.

Rain Man
01-07-2008, 10:53 PM
If we have a black president, I think then all of the white people will become the oppressed.

AggressiveNapkin
01-07-2008, 10:54 PM
Didn't the "black leaders" say he wasn't "black enough"? I thought that's what they said.

It is a good step in the right direction.

Was about to bring up that same point myself. Also co-sign on it being a step forward.

One man can't entirely cure the problem but i would think that those excuses would decrease a significant amount.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 10:55 PM
How will Obama being elected President cure all that ails Black people in this country?

To even assert that such is possible staves off real progress yet again.

America's innocence... Ah yes.

Phobia
01-07-2008, 10:57 PM
I don't care what color the man is. But I've heard he's Muslim. Is that true? That would impact my decision greatly. Generally, religious preference isn't on my agenda but I'm not a big fan of Muslims. They make it very clear they want to squash the U.S. What better way than putting one of their own in the White House? I know I should probably be wearing a tin foil hat, but I can't look past this.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 10:58 PM
I don't care what color the man is. But I've heard he's Muslim. Is that true? That would impact my decision greatly. Generally, religious preference isn't on my agenda but I'm not a big fan of Muslims. They make it very clear they want to squash the U.S. What better way than putting one of their own in the White House? I know I should probably be wearing a tin foil hat, but I can't look past this.

Ignorance is bliss on all fronts.

That's a stereotype care of your own HONEST American government.
The Muslims I know do not support terrorism in any way.
And they are, in fact, more tolerant and peaceful than your average Apple-pie eating American.

AggressiveNapkin
01-07-2008, 10:59 PM
I don't care what color the man is. But I've heard he's Muslim. Is that true? That would impact my decision greatly. Generally, religious preference isn't on my agenda but I'm not a big fan of Muslims. They make it very clear they want to squash the U.S. What better way than putting one of their own in the White House? I know I should probably be wearing a tin foil hat, but I can't look past this.

WOW....

HolmeZz
01-07-2008, 11:00 PM
I don't care what color the man is. But I've heard he's Muslim. Is that true? That would impact my decision greatly. Generally, religious preference isn't on my agenda but I'm not a big fan of Muslims. They make it very clear they want to squash the U.S. What better way than putting one of their own in the White House? I know I should probably be wearing a tin foil hat, but I can't look past this.

You've been victimized by the Fox News machine.

Pitt Gorilla
01-07-2008, 11:02 PM
I don't care what color the man is. But I've heard he's Muslim. Is that true? That would impact my decision greatly. Generally, religious preference isn't on my agenda but I'm not a big fan of Muslims. They make it very clear they want to squash the U.S. What better way than putting one of their own in the White House? I know I should probably be wearing a tin foil hat, but I can't look past this.OMG, hes teh Muzlumz namez!

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:02 PM
That's America.

Intolerant. Insensitive. Ignorant.

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 11:02 PM
It's like fishing with dynamite.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:02 PM
How will Obama being elected President cure all that ails Black people in this country?

To even assert that such is possible staves off real progress yet again.

America's innocence... Ah yes.


That's not the claim or hope. I think the hope is that Obama having the highest office in the land (and the change he will bring) will force the people Bill Cosby talked about with his Pound Cake speech to stop blaming the old white people in power for all their problems because, well, it's a young black guy in power. The hope is that folks in the inner city will better themselves in part because there's no longer the phantom barrier of The Man.

HolmeZz
01-07-2008, 11:04 PM
I think an Obama presidency could stand for a lot symbolically, but that's not why he should get elected and it's not why anyone should vote for him.

MadMax
01-07-2008, 11:04 PM
I don't care what color the man is. But I've heard he's Muslim. Is that true? That would impact my decision greatly. Generally, religious preference isn't on my agenda but I'm not a big fan of Muslims. They make it very clear they want to squash the U.S. What better way than putting one of their own in the White House? I know I should probably be wearing a tin foil hat, but I can't look past this.


I agree with that..While not PC F that I would not be very happy with a Mooslum in the WH. I also have to think the majority of Americans would not either. If I offend anyone then so be it. Pisson them!!!!!!!! :cuss: That would be grounds for a revolution. :bang: Won't happen

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:04 PM
Ignorance is bliss on all fronts.

That's a stereotype care of your own HONEST American government.
The Muslims I know do not support terrorism in any way.
And they are, in fact, more tolerant and peaceful than your average Apple-pie eating American.
You've been victimized by the Fox News machine.
WOW....

Jesus Christ, sarcasm meters sure are on the fritz here tonight.

MadMax
01-07-2008, 11:05 PM
You've been victimized by the Fox News machine.


As you ride the PC horsie :)

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 11:06 PM
Jesus Christ, sarcasm meters sure are on the fritz here tonight.

Yep.

That's why I said, it's like fishing with dynamite.

It's too damn easy.

Phil is kinda like the Borat of ChiefsPlanet.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:06 PM
I think an Obama presidency could stand for a lot symbolically, but that's not why he should get elected and it's not why anyone should vote for him.

Yeah, there are plenty of more legit reasons to vote for him, but the fact that America would put aside all prejudices to vote for the right man regardless of skin color is huge.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:06 PM
That's not the claim or hope. I think the hope is that Obama having the highest office in the land (and the change he will bring) will force the people Bill Cosby talked about with his Pound Cake speech to stop blaming the old white people in power for all their problems because, well, it's a young black guy in power. The hope is that folks in the inner city will better themselves in part because there's no longer the phantom barrier of The Man.

Wonderful. That's the personal responsibility piece.
But to ignore social responsibility only puts us back at Square One.

Obama taking office wouldn't change structural inequalities in of itself.
You know that. Come on...

HolmeZz
01-07-2008, 11:07 PM
Jesus Christ, sarcasm meters sure are on the fritz here tonight.

Kinda, but I don't like to give Phil more credit than he deserves.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-07-2008, 11:07 PM
I haven't read this thread, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this posted before now. I think as long as people are underachieving, no matter what their race, creed, color, sex, etc. is, they will find an excuse that doesn't include their own shortcomings.

Rain Man
01-07-2008, 11:08 PM
I don't care what color the man is. But I've heard he's Muslim. Is that true? That would impact my decision greatly. Generally, religious preference isn't on my agenda but I'm not a big fan of Muslims. They make it very clear they want to squash the U.S. What better way than putting one of their own in the White House? I know I should probably be wearing a tin foil hat, but I can't look past this.

Holy cow. Tin foil? No one wears tin foil any more. Bubble wrap is where it's at.

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 11:09 PM
Kinda, but I don't like to give Phil more credit than he deserves.


Phil deserves all that credit, and then some.

Puppetmaster.

Phenomenal at pulling the strings.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:09 PM
I agree with that..While not PC F that I would not be very happy with a Mooslum in the WH.

But you're comfortable with having a Mason in office?

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 11:09 PM
I haven't read this thread, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this posted before now. I think as long as people are underachieving, no matter what their race, creed, color, sex, etc. is, they will find an excuse that doesn't include their own shortcomings.

Bingo.

Thread over.

Thanks for coming, everyone.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:10 PM
Wonderful. That's the personal responsibility piece.
But to ignore social responsibility only puts us back at Square One.

Obama taking office wouldn't change structural inequalities in of itself.
You know that. Come on...

Did anyone say we should ignore social responsibility? No.

I do believe Obama is the real candidate of change, and that means he'll bring the social change that a guy like Bush obviously can't and won't.

Rain Man
01-07-2008, 11:10 PM
Would they change the name of his home to The Black House?

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:11 PM
I haven't read this thread, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this posted before now. I think as long as people are underachieving, no matter what their race, creed, color, sex, etc. is, they will find an excuse that doesn't include their own shortcomings.

True indeed.

I can sleep more comfortably knowing no one non-Black makes such excuses for failure...

And even better to know that Blacks aren't interested in being responsible for their own actions. Nah... They'd rather just make excuses to license their own destructive behaviors.

Threads like these say more about where we are as a nation than any ballot can.

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:11 PM
You've been victimized by the Fox News machine.

I don't watch Fox News. I heard it from a man who used to be muslim and understands their way of life and thinking.

patteeu
01-07-2008, 11:12 PM
Comeon Micjones enjoy the moment. White America is voting for a black man to lead them. They are obviously judging him based on the content of his message and judgement. They don't give a chit about the color of his skin. It's a major step forward.

Actually no.

A very White Peter Beinart did, but don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.

Not so fast, you two. Let's not let a lack of awareness get in our way of understanding what at least one black man thinks of Obama and why white folks would vote for him:

http://www.mahablog.com/wp-content/uploads/davide.jpg

Obama the 'Magic Negro' (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19,0,5335087.story?coll=la-home-center)

The Illinois senator lends himself to white America's idealized, less-than-real black man.

By David Ehrenstein, L.A.-based DAVID EHRENSTEIN writes about Hollywood and politics.
March 19, 2007
AS EVERY CARBON-BASED life form on this planet surely knows, Barack Obama, the junior Democratic senator from Illinois, is running for president. Since making his announcement, there has been no end of commentary about him in all quarters — musing over his charisma and the prospect he offers of being the first African American to be elected to the White House.

But it's clear that Obama also is running for an equally important unelected office, in the province of the popular imagination — the "Magic Negro."

The Magic Negro is a figure of postmodern folk culture, coined by snarky 20th century sociologists, to explain a cultural figure who emerged in the wake of Brown vs. Board of Education. "He has no past, he simply appears one day to help the white protagonist," reads the description on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro .

He's there to assuage white "guilt" (i.e., the minimal discomfort they feel) over the role of slavery and racial segregation in American history, while replacing stereotypes of a dangerous, highly sexualized black man with a benign figure for whom interracial sexual congress holds no interest.

As might be expected, this figure is chiefly cinematic — embodied by such noted performers as Sidney Poitier, Morgan Freeman, Scatman Crothers, Michael Clarke Duncan, Will Smith and, most recently, Don Cheadle. And that's not to mention a certain basketball player whose very nickname is "Magic."

Poitier really poured on the "magic" in "Lilies of the Field" (for which he won a best actor Oscar) and "To Sir, With Love" (which, along with "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," made him a No. 1 box-office attraction). In these films, Poitier triumphs through yeoman service to his white benefactors. "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" is particularly striking in this regard, as it posits miscegenation without evoking sex. (Talk about magic!)

The same can't quite be said of Freeman in "Driving Miss Daisy," "Seven" and the seemingly endless series of films in which he plays ersatz paterfamilias to a white woman bedeviled by a serial killer. But at least he survives, unlike Crothers in "The Shining," in which psychic premonitions inspire him to rescue a white family he barely knows and get killed for his trouble. This heart-tug trope is parodied in Gus Van Sant's "Elephant." The film's sole black student at a Columbine-like high school arrives in the midst of a slaughter, helps a girl escape and is immediately gunned down. See what helping the white man gets you?

And what does the white man get out of the bargain? That's a question asked by John Guare in "Six Degrees of Separation," his brilliant retelling of the true saga of David Hampton — a young, personable gay con man who in the 1980s passed himself off as the son of none other than the real Sidney Poitier. Though he started small, using the ruse to get into Studio 54, Hampton discovered that countless gullible, well-heeled New Yorkers, vulnerable to the Magic Negro myth, were only too eager to believe in his baroque fantasy. (One of the few who wasn't fooled was Andy Warhol, who was astonished his underlings believed Hampton's whoppers. Clearly Warhol had no need for the accouterment of interracial "goodwill.")

But the same can't be said of most white Americans, whose desire for a noble, healing Negro hasn't faded. That's where Obama comes in: as Poitier's "real" fake son.

The senator's famously stem-winding stump speeches have been drawing huge crowds to hear him talk of uniting rather than dividing. A praiseworthy goal. Consequently, even the mild criticisms thrown his way have been waved away, "magically." He used to smoke, but now he doesn't; he racked up a bunch of delinquent parking tickets, but he paid them all back with an apology. And hey, is looking good in a bathing suit a bad thing?

The only mud that momentarily stuck was criticism (white and black alike) concerning Obama's alleged "inauthenticty," as compared to such sterling examples of "genuine" blackness as Al Sharpton and Snoop Dogg. Speaking as an African American whose last name has led to his racial "credentials" being challenged — often several times a day — I know how pesky this sort of thing can be.

Obama's fame right now has little to do with his political record or what he's written in his two (count 'em) books, or even what he's actually said in those stem-winders. It's the way he's said it that counts the most. It's his manner, which, as presidential hopeful Sen. Joe Biden ham-fistedly reminded us, is "articulate." His tone is always genial, his voice warm and unthreatening, and he hasn't called his opponents names (despite being baited by the media).

Like a comic-book superhero, Obama is there to help, out of the sheer goodness of a heart we need not know or understand. For as with all Magic Negroes, the less real he seems, the more desirable he becomes. If he were real, white America couldn't project all its fantasies of curative black benevolence on him.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:13 PM
Did anyone say we should ignore social responsibility? No.

Why is personal responsibility all we're ever concerned with talking about?

ChiefFan31
01-07-2008, 11:16 PM
I haven't read this thread, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this posted before now. I think as long as people are underachieving, no matter what their race, creed, color, sex, etc. is, they will find an excuse that doesn't include their own shortcomings.

Bingo.

Thread over.

Thanks for coming, everyone.

Exactly. I have had my fill of soapbox speeches pointing the finger of blame everywhere but at the mirror.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-07-2008, 11:16 PM
True indeed.

I can sleep more comfortably knowing no one non-Black makes such excuses for failure...

And even better to know that Blacks aren't interested in being responsible for their own actions. Nah... They'd rather just make excuses to license their own destructive behaviors.

Threads like these say more about where we are as a nation than any ballot can.


Nowhere in my post did it state that injustices do not occur. Nowhere did it say that blacks are not unfairly behind whites in this country. I simply answered the question posed. You're unfairly judging me based on your last sentence in reply to my response. Maybe that speaks as to where we are as a nation. Could assumptions, misconceptions, and overall bitterness be related to the problem at hand?

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:17 PM
Ignorance is bliss on all fronts.

That's a stereotype care of your own HONEST American government.
The Muslims I know do not support terrorism in any way.
And they are, in fact, more tolerant and peaceful than your average Apple-pie eating American.

Oh. Well, my experience with Muslims is completely different. Put whatever label you want on it, I don't care. I don't like Muslims and I'm not afraid to say it loud and proud. I don't want a Muslim in the White House. Period.

Rain Man
01-07-2008, 11:17 PM
Is Obama black? I never pay attention to that stuff. Who else is black? Is Huckabee black?

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 11:18 PM
Nowhere in my post did it state that injustices do not occur. Nowhere did it say that blacks are not unfairly behind whites in this country. I simply answered the question posed. You're unfairly judging me based on your last sentence in reply to my response. Maybe that speaks as to where we are as a nation. Could assumptions, misconceptions, and overall bitterness be related to the problem at hand?

Again, spot on.

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:19 PM
It's like fishing with dynamite.
Heh. Not this time.

I probably shouldn't be in this thread anyway. I don't pay much attention to politics until after the primaries. I don't know anything about Obama except that Muslim tidbit. I was looking for confirmation.

patteeu
01-07-2008, 11:23 PM
I don't care what color the man is. But I've heard he's Muslim. Is that true? That would impact my decision greatly. Generally, religious preference isn't on my agenda but I'm not a big fan of Muslims. They make it very clear they want to squash the U.S. What better way than putting one of their own in the White House? I know I should probably be wearing a tin foil hat, but I can't look past this.

I don't know if he was ever muslim, but he *is* named after the grandson of Mohammed. Yes, *that* Mohammed. :eek: :eek: :eek: ;)

Seriously, he's not muslim. He attends a Christian church (http://www.tucc.org/home.htm) of some sort that preaches a black liberation theology (http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm).

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:25 PM
You're unfairly judging me based on your last sentence in reply to my response. Maybe that speaks as to where we are as a nation. Could assumptions, misconceptions, and overall bitterness be related to the problem at hand?

I haven't judged you at all.

And my last sentence applied to more than just you.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:26 PM
Why is personal responsibility all we're ever concerned with talking about?

Uh, well, in the case of this thread it's because that's the topic. The question was whether Obama will help the personal responsibility side of things. You chose to take that as meaning "Obama is the magic elixir, he'll get all struggling black people off their butts, and there's no such thing as oppression." None of those are claims that have been made.

Somewhere between the omnipotent tyrannical white man and stereotypical lazy black man there's the true condition of the African American people. It's not all social and it's not all personal. But for people who do use The Man as their crutch (which is not everybody, obviously) there's the hope that Obama will be some sort of infiltration of the idea of The Man. There's the hope that because this nation of all races has elected somebody other than an old white guy that it represents some sort of crucial social change. A change that indicates America's new ability to see beyond skin color and into the things that bring all of humanity together.

As long as there are racists (of all skin colors) there will be difficulty. But an Obama presidency is a symbol of The Man's changing of the guard, from "The Man" who institutionalizes racism to "the man" who leads the country based on what's morally correct, the man who holds nobody down.

So yeah, maybe Obama is little more than a symbol. But that symbol is certainly a step in the right direction in a lot of ways, is it not?

FAX
01-07-2008, 11:26 PM
I'll still believe the man is holding us down because the man isn't really a man, at all, Mr. wutamess. He is an institution. A group of institutions, in fact. He is the Trilateral Commission, the Federal Reserve, the insurance conglomerates, the International Monetary Fund, the IRS, OPEC, and Dr. Phil. He is the Bohemian Grove, the Illuminati, the European Union, the Freemasons, the Katipunan, the Mafia, the Order of Chaeronea, and the Knights Templar. He is the Vatican, the Methodists United, Judaism, the Baptist Convention, Islam, and the Church of Satan. His is Biotechnology, the Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Association, Merck, Pfizer, Novartis, the European Medicines Agency, and the FDA. He is NBC, CNN, FOX News, ABC, CBS, CSI Miami, Drudge, Time Warner, Disney, and Soap Operas. He is the greatest combined Gross National Product ever amassed in the history of the world sold at a discount to the Chinese. He has no name and never will for he is war, hatred, intolerance, arrogance, and greed in all its forms.

FAX

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:26 PM
Oh. Well, my experience with Muslims is completely different. Put whatever label you want on it, I don't care. I don't like Muslims and I'm not afraid to say it loud and proud. I don't want a Muslim in the White House. Period.

Not enough to be ignorant...
Gotta wallow in it too...

el borracho
01-07-2008, 11:26 PM
I know I have posted this before but... most immigrants lose their accents completely by the third generation while one minority group has developed and maintained a style of speech, different from all other Americans; why is this?
Still waiting for an answer...

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:27 PM
Heh. Not this time.

I probably shouldn't be in this thread anyway. I don't pay much attention to politics until after the primaries. I don't know anything about Obama except that Muslim tidbit. I was looking for confirmation.

Wu-wu-wait. You mean you weren't being sarcastic? Seriously.

Please tell me you were being sarcastic.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-07-2008, 11:29 PM
I haven't judged you at all.

And my last sentence applied to more than just you.


Why would it apply to me at all? Absolutely nowhere in my post did I segregate a race of people, let alone your people. To me Mic, we're all the same people, I believe you feel the same. I'm just saying, I spoke only in terms of human beings, not any race, creed, color, sex, etc. Please answer my question, could assumptions, misconceptions, and overall bitterness be related to the problem at hand? If not for you personally, others? Many others? All colors?

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:30 PM
Wu-wu-wait. You mean you weren't being sarcastic? Seriously.

Please tell me you were being sarcastic.
I was asking a question and indicating why it would make a difference to me.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:31 PM
Why would it apply to me at all? Absolutely nowhere in my post did I segregate a race of people, let alone your people. To me Mic, we're all the same people, I believe you feel the same. I'm just saying, I spoke only in terms of human beings, not any race, creed, color, sex, etc. Please answer my question, could assumptions, misconceptions, and overall bitterness be related to the problem at hand? If not for you personally, others? Many others? All colors?

Yeah Mic, you really lost me with your reply to milkman. He's completely right. PEOPLE tend to blame things on stuff other than themselves. Doesn't matter the race.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-07-2008, 11:31 PM
If not for you personally, others? Many others? All colors?


Brutha from anotha motha. :)

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:31 PM
The question was whether Obama will help the personal responsibility side of things.

I'd beg to differ.
I think the question addressed the perception of opportunity in the United States that would undoubtedly widen if a Black man ever made it to the White House. Just a hunch though...

Somewhere between the omnipotent tyrannical white man and stereotypical lazy black man there's the true condition of the African American people. It's not all social and it's not all personal. But for people who do use The Man as their crutch (which is not everybody, obviously) there's the hope that Obama will be some sort of infiltration of the idea of The Man.

By virtue of his skin color alone?
It's sound policy that matters. Not his complexion.
After all... Clarence Thomas is Black...

As long as there are racists (of all skin colors) there will be difficulty. But an Obama presidency is a symbol of The Man's changing of the guard, from "The Man" who institutionalizes racism to "the man" who leads the country based on what's morally correct, the man who holds nobody down.

That's only if you believe the President is truly running the country.
Unfortunately the problem is much much bigger.

stumppy
01-07-2008, 11:33 PM
Is Obama black? I never pay attention to that stuff. Who else is black? Is Huckabee black?


ROFL

They are all just different shades of gray.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:33 PM
I was asking a question and indicating why it would make a difference to me.

If a Muslim is the best candidate, you vote for the Muslim.

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:34 PM
Not enough to be ignorant...
Gotta wallow in it too...

What's ignorant about not liking Muslims? Every Muslim I've ever encountered has tried to kill me, screw my wife, break up my family, molest my children, screw me out of money, turn my kids against me, prevent me from seeing my children, move my children 1500 miles away from me, lie, cheat, steal, and generally be nuisance at every encounter.

I think I'm entitled to my opinion and based on my personal experiences there's not a thing wrong with disliking Muslims.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:35 PM
Why would it apply to me at all? Absolutely nowhere in my post did I segregate a race of people, let alone your people. To me Mic, we're all the same people, I believe you feel the same.

I do.

And honestly after re-reading your post, in fairness to you, I misspoke.
My apologies.

But, yes...
Bitterness and misconceptions lend themselves to a continuing problem.

But your point would speak further to what I'm getting at...

If people of all races make excuses for their own failings why was such a question ever posed with Blacks in mind?

That's not for you to answer...

Oh Wuta...

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:36 PM
I don't know if he was ever muslim, but he *is* named after the grandson of Mohammed. Yes, *that* Mohammed. :eek: :eek: :eek: ;)

Seriously, he's not muslim. He attends a Christian church (http://www.tucc.org/home.htm) of some sort that preaches a black liberation theology (http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm).
Thanks for answering my question. Looks like it's a non-issue then.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:36 PM
I'd beg to differ.
I think the question addressed the perception of opportunity in the United States that would undoubtedly widen if a Black man ever made it to the White House. Just a hunch though...



By virtue of his skin color alone?
It's sound policy that matters. Not his complexion.
After all... Clarence Thomas is Black...



That's only if you believe the President is truly running the country.
Unfortunately the problem is much much bigger.


I see you didn't address the last part of my post. Isn't the symbol itself at least a bit hopeful?

(And by the way, I do think Obama has sound policy ideas and that's why I'll vote for him.)

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:37 PM
What's ignorant about not liking Muslims?

There's nothing inherently wrong with disliking the Muslims you've encountered, but to lump them all into one category? Well that's as ignorant as anything I've ever heard.

I think I'm entitled to my opinion and based on my personal experiences there's not a thing wrong with disliking Muslims.

You're entitled.
Just know that your opinion of all Muslims is ignorant.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:38 PM
I see you didn't address the last part of my post. Isn't the symbol itself at least a bit hopeful?

I think it is...
Just to much lesser extent than others...

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:38 PM
Thanks for answering my question. Looks like it's a non-issue then.

Never should have been an issue.

(I still think you're being sarcastic... I mean, your post about Muslims trying to kill you and screw your wife is so extreme it can't possibly be typed without irony)

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:38 PM
If a Muslim is the best candidate, you vote for the Muslim.

In most cases that would be true for me. A Muslim candidate would probably be a deal-breaker based on my experience though.

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:39 PM
Never should have been an issue.

(I still think you're being sarcastic... I mean, your post about Muslims trying to kill you and screw your wife is so extreme it can't possibly be typed without irony)
Every bit 100% truth.

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 11:39 PM
Never should have been an issue.

(I still think you're being sarcastic... I mean, your post about Muslims trying to kill you and screw your wife is so extreme it can't possibly be typed without irony)

Keep in mind, Phil did spend time in the ME during the 1st gulf war.....

Can't speak to the wife thing, however.

Regardless, who am I to judge.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:40 PM
Good to know no Christians would ever try to kill you, screw your wife, break up your family, molest your children, screw you out of money, turn your kids against you, prevent you from seeing your children, move your children 1500 miles away from you, lie, cheat, steal, and generally be a nuisance at every encounter.

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:42 PM
There's nothing inherently wrong with disliking the Muslims you've encountered, but to lump them all into one category? Well that's as ignorant as anything I've ever heard.



You're entitled.
Just know that your opinion of all Muslims is ignorant.

I don't like steamed Mussels either. Based on my experience with steamed Mussels, I avoid all variety of Mussel. Ignorant? Perhaps. I just don't like them. When I have a positive experience with a Mussel perhaps my attitude will change. I'm open to new and exciting things.

Are you a Musselim?

AggressiveNapkin
01-07-2008, 11:42 PM
Is Obama black? I never pay attention to that stuff. Who else is black? Is Huckabee black?

What's funny about this is that one of my roommates actually begged the question if Obama is black.

He was completely serious and is the kind of kid who knows virtually nothing about anything at all. His favorite team is the Steelers and he can't even name five players. Your comment just reminded me of how funny that was when he asked that.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:43 PM
Every bit 100% truth.

The UT massacre, Columbine and the Omaha mall shootings were all perpetuated by white people. Guess I better never vote for a white guy.

Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy were all white people. I'll sure as shit never vote for a white guy again.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-07-2008, 11:43 PM
I do.

And honestly after re-reading your post, in fairness to you, I misspoke.
My apologies.

But, yes...
Bitterness and misconceptions lend themselves to a continuing problem.

But your point would speak further to what I'm getting at...

If people of all races make excuses for their own failings why was such a question ever posed with Blacks in mind?

That's not for you to answer...

Oh Wuta...


It's not. I'm going to give my opinion anyways.

We have a long ways to go to end this madness. It is well informed, educated, black men such as yourself that has to lead this charge. I think you do a phenominal job in conveying your message. You make people on a football board think about things that are much more important than football. You give them insight to their misconceptions, and that is imperitive to winning this war. However you have stated yourself that there is blame on both sides of the fence. Frustration is a part of todays situation. Anyone under 50 absolutely cannot relate to the civil rights movement. It may as well have been 1000 years ago. They weren't alive. It's only been 50 years. Compared to millenia, that's not long. We are making progress, and we will continue. That's the long answer.

The short answer is, because we're not there yet.

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:43 PM
Good to know no Christians would ever try to kill you, screw your wife, break up your family, molest your children, screw you out of money, turn your kids against you, prevent you from seeing your children, move your children 1500 miles away from you, lie, cheat, steal, and generally be a nuisance at every encounter.

To my knowledge none have.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:44 PM
Keep in mind, Phil did spend time in the ME during the 1st gulf war.....


My guess as to why Muslims tried to kill him is because he was an enemy soldier. Just a hunch.

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:44 PM
The UT massacre, Columbine and the Omaha mall shootings were all perpetuated by white people. Guess I better never vote for a white guy.

Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy were all white people. I'll sure as shit never vote for a white guy again.

Fair enough.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:45 PM
I don't like steamed Mussels either. Based on my experience with steamed Mussels, I avoid all variety of Mussel. Ignorant? Perhaps. I just don't like them. When I have a positive experience with a Mussel perhaps my attitude will change. I'm open to new and exciting things.

I get the feeling your mind won't change.
You think like a mollusk.

Are you a Musselim?

No sir. I'm Christian.
Ironic?

FAX
01-07-2008, 11:46 PM
My guess as to why Muslims tried to kill him is because he was an enemy soldier. Just a hunch.

Mr. Phobia should just be glad we haven't declared war against Midgetland.

FAX

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:46 PM
My guess as to why Muslims tried to kill him is because he was an enemy soldier. Just a hunch.

What if I were merely a passenger on an airplane or a citizen minding my own business typing on my computer at work?

Mr. Flopnuts
01-07-2008, 11:46 PM
I do.

And honestly after re-reading your post, in fairness to you, I misspoke.
My apologies.

But, yes...
Bitterness and misconceptions lend themselves to a continuing problem.

But your point would speak further to what I'm getting at...

If people of all races make excuses for their own failings why was such a question ever posed with Blacks in mind?

That's not for you to answer...

Oh Wuta...


I appreciate it, but it is not neccessary. No one should have to appologize for misunderstanding intent.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:46 PM
To my knowledge none have.

Okay... Now I know you've just been kidding this whole time.

Rain Man
01-07-2008, 11:47 PM
I'll still believe the man is holding us down because the man isn't really a man, at all, Mr. wutamess. He is an institution. A group of institutions, in fact. He is the Trilateral Commission, the Federal Reserve, the insurance conglomerates, the International Monetary Fund, the IRS, OPEC, and Dr. Phil. He is the Bohemian Grove, the Illuminati, the European Union, the Freemasons, the Katipunan, the Mafia, the Order of Chaeronea, and the Knights Templar. He is the Vatican, the Methodists United, Judaism, the Baptist Convention, Islam, and the Church of Satan. His is Biotechnology, the Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Association, Merck, Pfizer, Novartis, the European Medicines Agency, and the FDA. He is NBC, CNN, FOX News, ABC, CBS, CSI Miami, Drudge, Time Warner, Disney, and Soap Operas. He is the greatest combined Gross National Product ever amassed in the history of the world sold at a discount to the Chinese. He has no name and never will for he is war, hatred, intolerance, arrogance, and greed in all its forms.

FAX

Wait a minute. I thought I was The Man.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:48 PM
What if I were merely a passenger on an airplane or a citizen minding my own business typing on my computer at work?

Still doesn't make it right if you don't vote for the right candidate because of his religion.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:48 PM
Wait a minute. I thought I was The Man.
No, you're The Rain Man.

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:48 PM
I get the feeling your mind won't change.
You think like a mollusk.



No sir. I'm Christian.
Ironic?

My mind changes plenty. I came into this thread dead set against voting for Obama and now it's an option.

I don't even know what a mollusk is.

Why would it be ironic that you're a Christian?

FAX
01-07-2008, 11:48 PM
Wait a minute. I thought I was The Man.

You were the man. You know, term limits, and all.

FAX

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 11:49 PM
My guess as to why Muslims tried to kill him is because he was an enemy soldier. Just a hunch.

Fair enough, but if the bullets whizzing over his head had come from the machine guns of French Canadians, I'd bet he'd have a beef with them as well.

Until you've been in that situation (don't know if you have) I think its wrong to judge someone because of it.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:49 PM
Okay... Now I know you've just been kidding this whole time.

I'm still holding on to that sliver of hope. If he's being sarcastic he's taking it to the extreme.

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 11:50 PM
Still doesn't make it right if you don't vote for the right candidate because of his religion.

Wow.

Considering a majority of the country voted for the WRONG candidate last time.

Because of his religion.

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:51 PM
Still doesn't make it right if you don't vote for the right candidate because of his religion.

Why not? If all my experiences with Mennonites were incredibly negative then I wouldn't vote for a Mennonite either. Opinions are generally formed through personal experience. My personal experience with Muslims has been overwhelmingly negative.

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 11:51 PM
Okay... Now I know you've just been kidding this whole time.

Can't say I didn't try......

MadMax
01-07-2008, 11:52 PM
Mr. Phobia should just be glad we haven't declared war against Midgetland.

FAX

Yea that last midget that blew up 35 ppl at the bus station really freaked me out too :)

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:53 PM
Until you've been in that situation (don't know if you have) I think its wrong to judge someone because of it.

No, it's not.

I'm a majority percentage German but I sure as hell ain't a Nazi.

Muslims should be given the same consideration. Don't care how many tours in Iraq you've done, judging one person because of the actions of other people related only by race, creed or nationality is dead wrong.

Always.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:54 PM
We have a long ways to go to end this madness. It is well informed, educated, black men such as yourself that has to lead this charge.

I don't think change lies at the feet of the Black intelligentsia.
Many of them would like to see White America drawn-and-quartered.

Real change will come on the backs of the genuine.
On the backs of those who have love at heart first and foremost.

I think you do a phenominal job in conveying your message. You make people on a football board think about things that are much more important than football.

I try.
I don't have all of the answers. And I'm just as flawed as the next man.
I'm working to become a better man everyday. With God's help I think I can achieve that.

Besides... With a football team as bad as ours we have to have something else to talk about.

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:54 PM
I'm still holding on to that sliver of hope. If he's being sarcastic he's taking it to the extreme.

What's extreme about it? It's my experience. I'm conditioned that way. I can't help the feeling. It's human nature. I don't like bowling either.

FAX
01-07-2008, 11:55 PM
Yea that last midget that blew up 35 ppl at the bus station really freaked me out too :)

That was terrible, no doubt, Mr. SlightlyPerturbedMax. I hate midget terrorists.

The good news is that they can only carry a small amount of explosives in their little bomb vests, so they usually just go "pop".

FAX

Rain Man
01-07-2008, 11:55 PM
I went to a Mosque once, and I was amazed at the place. They had all sorts of food laid out and this middle eastern guy greeted me and asked if I wanted anything. I was thinking about converting until I realized that I had accidentally entered the 7-11 next door to the mosque.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:55 PM
Wow.

Considering a majority of the country voted for the WRONG candidate last time.

Because of his religion.

Well, yeah, it goes the other way, too.

I'm saying that religion should not be the deciding factor. Nor should race or anything like that. Which is why I don't want to see Huckabee in the Oval Office. Not because he's Christian, but because his Christianity would be the only thing putting him there.

MadMax
01-07-2008, 11:57 PM
No, it's not.

I'm a majority percentage German but I sure as hell ain't a Nazi.

Muslims should be given the same consideration. Don't care how many tours in Iraq you've done, judging one person because of the actions of other people related only by race, creed or nationality is dead wrong.

Always.


Actually He is not even a Muslim. I have no problem with him :) Or any other peace loving American If he wins he wins then they can call him da debil and do the same stupid shit Americans do when they elect a Prez...It's all the same Just different angles. I can't wait for the day the volunteer Army decides to not volunteer and everyone gets what they have asked for. Bleh I'm outta whiskey "thank God" and thanks to Morphius I'm not as angry as b4... :p No offense intended to anyone I'm just outta control damnit!!!

It's ok my posts are mostly ignored anyways so a FU racists bastard or hey piss off would be welcome.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:57 PM
My mind changes plenty. I came into this thread dead set against voting for Obama and now it's an option.

I would think being more accepting of people who identify as Muslim is what's more important, but... Progress is progress.

I don't even know what a mollusk is.

A mussel is a mollusk.

Why would it be ironic that you're a Christian?

Because I'm for tolerance even where my own personal views are in conflict with those I'm seeking tolerance for.

FAX
01-07-2008, 11:58 PM
I'm for tolerance up to a point.

FAX

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2008, 11:58 PM
No, it's not.

I'm a majority percentage German but I sure as hell ain't a Nazi.

Muslims should be given the same consideration. Don't care how many tours in Iraq you've done, judging one person because of the actions of other people related only by race, creed or nationality is dead wrong.

Always.

Great analogy, as I'm German as well.

I agree with you on the surface, and believe in everything you've said.

However, he, or anyone else, right or wrong, have the right to feel that way, and exercise their vote however they see fit.

What about the members of the religious right that voted for Bush for no other good reason but his religion?

Right or wrong, religion is a HUGE part of the election process.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:58 PM
Well, yeah, it goes the other way, too.

I'm saying that religion should not be the deciding factor. Nor should race or anything like that. Which is why I don't want to see Huckabee in the Oval Office. Not because he's Christian, but because his Christianity would be the only thing putting him there.

I cringed a bit when I read that last sentence...

You don't think his political ideas are more important than his faith?
At least concerning his candidacy?

Phobia
01-07-2008, 11:59 PM
No, it's not.

I'm a majority percentage German but I sure as hell ain't a Nazi.

Muslims should be given the same consideration. Don't care how many tours in Iraq you've done, judging one person because of the actions of other people related only by race, creed or nationality is dead wrong.

Always.

Isn't Nazi a political affiliation? May I submit that being Muslim and belonging to a religious organization are two very different things? I mean, I'm no authority on the matter but no church I've ever joined asked me to change my name before. I'd saying becoming Muslim is taking religion to a whole new level.

Guru
01-07-2008, 11:59 PM
Wow.

Considering a majority of the country voted for the WRONG candidate last time.

Because of his religion.
Nah, they just voted for the other douche bag.

Micjones
01-07-2008, 11:59 PM
I'm for tolerance up to a point.

FAX

Sure. I think we all are.
We're all human.

Thig Lyfe
01-07-2008, 11:59 PM
What's extreme about it? It's my experience. I'm conditioned that way. I can't help the feeling. It's human nature. I don't like bowling either.

Your personal experience has absolutely no bearing on whether our hypothetical Muslim candidate should be elected. Unless Barack Obama himself f*cked your wife, the only thing preventing you from voting against him should have been a disagreement with his ideas.

Old World War II vets still don't like "Japs" because that's who bombed Pearl Harbor and that's who they fought. Does that mean a good Japanese candidate should be voted down for that reason? No.

Ultra Peanut
01-08-2008, 12:00 AM
Heh. Not this time.

I probably shouldn't be in this thread anyway. I don't pay much attention to politics until after the primaries. I don't know anything about Obama except that Muslim tidbit. I was looking for confirmation.you got jokez

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 12:00 AM
I don't think change lies at the feet of the Black intelligentsia.
Many of them would like to see White America drawn-and-quartered.

Real change will come on the backs of the genuine.
On the backs of those who have love at heart first and foremost.



I try.
I don't have all of the answers. And I'm just as flawed as the next man.
I'm working to become a better man everyday. With God's help I think I can achieve that.

Besides... With a football team as bad as ours we have to have something else to talk about.


It shouldn't, but IMO, it does. Simply because that's the only way that the amount of educated genuine people will rise to a number that can make a difference. Lots of uneducated people are genuine, you can't fault them for not knowing any better. I know that sucks, but it's true.

Demonpenz
01-08-2008, 12:01 AM
What's extreme about it? It's my experience. I'm conditioned that way. I can't help the feeling. It's human nature. I don't like bowling either.


welll you aren't going to vote for him them after reading this

www.cnnsi.com/barakbowls300

FAX
01-08-2008, 12:01 AM
I'm for educating all the smart asses.

FAX

FAX
01-08-2008, 12:02 AM
And the dumb asses.

FAX

Micjones
01-08-2008, 12:02 AM
Isn't Nazi a political affiliation? May I submit that being Muslim and belonging to a religious organization are two very different things? I mean, I'm no authority on the matter but no church I've ever joined asked me to change my name before. I'd saying becoming Muslim is taking religion to a whole new level.

Changing one's name is not central to Islam.
It's optional.

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 12:03 AM
I cringed a bit when I read that last sentence...

You don't think his political ideas are more important than his faith?
At least concerning his candidacy?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I don't agree with his politics, which is why I won't vote for him. I don't want him there because many people will vote for him because he's Christian, and not because he's the best person for the job. Voting with religion as a main factor is wrong both ways.

OnTheWarpath58
01-08-2008, 12:04 AM
Your personal experience has absolutely no bearing on whether our hypothetical Muslim candidate should be elected. Unless Barack Obama himself f*cked your wife, the only thing preventing you from voting against him should have been a disagreement with his ideas.

Old World War II vets still don't like "Japs" because that's who bombed Pearl Harbor and that's who they fought. Does that mean a good Japanese candidate should be voted down for that reason? No.

As milkman Jr just said:

It shouldn't, but IMO, it does.

Should it happen? Nope.

Will it happen. You bet.

Citizens are given a vote and can use it however they see fit.

Right or wrong.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 12:04 AM
It shouldn't, but IMO, it does. Simply because that's the only way that the amount of educated genuine people will rise to a number that can make a difference. Lots of uneducated people are genuine, you can't fault them for not knowing any better. I know that sucks, but it's true.


I stand corrected. We are making a difference already. I guess I meant a number that can resolve the matter.

Ultra Peanut
01-08-2008, 12:07 AM
Changing one's name is not central to Islam.
It's optional.Yeah, just ask an actual Muslim congressman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ellison_(politician)), Keith Ellison, who was sworn in with a Quran once owned by Thomas Jefferson.

Guru
01-08-2008, 12:07 AM
As milkman Jr just said:

It shouldn't, but IMO, it does.

Should it happen? Nope.

Will it happen. You bet.

Citizens are given a vote and can use it however they see fit.

Right or wrong.

It is a sad state of affairs.

This year really sucks because not one candidate, on either side, has given me any good reason to give them my vote.

wazu
01-08-2008, 12:08 AM
Every Muslim I've ever encountered has tried to kill me, screw my wife, break up my family, molest my children, screw me out of money, turn my kids against me, prevent me from seeing my children, move my children 1500 miles away from me, lie, cheat, steal, and generally be nuisance at every encounter.

For the last time, I am NOT a Muslim!

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 12:08 AM
Actually He is not even a Muslim.

I know.


Right or wrong, religion is a HUGE part of the election process.

Yeah, and it's unfortunate.

Isn't Nazi a political affiliation? May I submit that being Muslim and belonging to a religious organization are two very different things? I mean, I'm no authority on the matter but no church I've ever joined asked me to change my name before. I'd saying becoming Muslim is taking religion to a whole new level.
You're missing the point. Voting on stereotypes is shitty. Your stereotypes may be based on personal experience, but they're still stereotypes.

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 12:09 AM
Citizens are given a vote and can use it however they see fit.

Right or wrong.

Yeah, they can. Doesn't change the moral issue, though.

Guru
01-08-2008, 12:10 AM
For the last time, I am NOT a Muslim!
ROFL

MadMax
01-08-2008, 12:10 AM
For the last time, I am NOT a Muslim!


prove it. :rockon:

OnTheWarpath58
01-08-2008, 12:11 AM
Yeah, they can. Doesn't change the moral issue, though.

Agreed.

MadMax
01-08-2008, 12:11 AM
I stand corrected. We are making a difference already. I guess I meant a number that can resolve the matter.


666?

Ultra Peanut
01-08-2008, 12:11 AM
Adam is a sleeper cell! When we elect him President of ChiefsPlanet, he will launch a surprise DDOS attack on the Jewish World Review site!

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 12:13 AM
666?


LMAO How's it going my friend?

patteeu
01-08-2008, 12:14 AM
My mind changes plenty. I came into this thread dead set against voting for Obama and now it's an option.

I don't even know what a mollusk is.

Why would it be ironic that you're a Christian?

He's only half black if that helps. ;)

Joe Biden says he's articulate and clean too.

Micjones
01-08-2008, 12:15 AM
It shouldn't, but IMO, it does. Simply because that's the only way that the amount of educated genuine people will rise to a number that can make a difference. Lots of uneducated people are genuine, you can't fault them for not knowing any better. I know that sucks, but it's true.

Eh...

I think love pierces the heart in a way education can't.

patteeu
01-08-2008, 12:16 AM
Why not? If all my experiences with Mennonites were incredibly negative then I wouldn't vote for a Mennonite either. Opinions are generally formed through personal experience. My personal experience with Muslims has been overwhelmingly negative.

How do you feel about mormons? All my experiences with mormons have been positive. Those are some high character, achievement oriented people, IMO. At least based on my experiences.

Micjones
01-08-2008, 12:16 AM
Yes, that's what I'm saying. I don't agree with his politics, which is why I won't vote for him. I don't want him there because many people will vote for him because he's Christian, and not because he's the best person for the job. Voting with religion as a main factor is wrong both ways.

Point taken.

wazu
01-08-2008, 12:19 AM
How do you feel about mormons? All my experiences with mormons have been positive. Those are some high character, achievement oriented people, IMO. At least based on my experiences.

That has been my experience as well. I've also had a lot of good professional experiences with people from India.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 12:19 AM
Eh...

I think love pierces the heart in a way education can't.


That's a good answer. It's flawed though IMO. Define the type of love you think it takes? There are many different forms of love.

MadMax
01-08-2008, 12:19 AM
LMAO How's it going my friend?



I like this thread but I bite my tongue :) sup bro?

Phobia
01-08-2008, 12:21 AM
I would think being more accepting of people who identify as Muslim is what's more important, but... Progress is progress.



A mussel is a mollusk.



Because I'm for tolerance even where my own personal views are in conflict with those I'm seeking tolerance for.

I don't know any other Muslims. When I encounter one who doesn't try to take me out or do horrible things to my family, I'll certainly reconsider my stance, as I do with most anything. I'm a whole lot more tolerant than my stance against Muslims would suggest.

Guru
01-08-2008, 12:21 AM
I like this thread but I bite my tongue :) sup bro?
Politics on the Planet are always touchy. I am surprised the thread has stayed this civil.

Micjones
01-08-2008, 12:21 AM
That's a good answer. It's flawed though IMO. Define the type of love you think it takes? There are many different forms of love.

Agape love.

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 12:25 AM
When I encounter one who doesn't try to take me out or do horrible things to my family

Did Obama (when you thought he was Muslim) do either of those things? No.

I don't think you'd give a Muslim the chance to redeem his entire religion (which is as ridiculous as it sounds). If you were choking and a guy with a turban said he knew the Heimlich, would you refuse his help?

If you wouldn't, then why would you refuse the help of a Muslim with the mission of changing America for the better?

MadMax
01-08-2008, 12:26 AM
Politics on the Planet are always touchy. I am surprised the thread has stayed this civil.


Me too, I try and stay away from DC bad for the blood pressure lol

wazu
01-08-2008, 12:30 AM
If you were choking and a guy with a turban said he knew the Heimlich, would you refuse his help?

If you wouldn't, then why would you refuse the help of a Muslim with the mission of changing America for the better?

Okay, I think Phobia is insane for his views, but this analogy is flawed. If I'm choking, anybody who claims to want to help will be welcome, because by my calculations, I have less than a minute before I pass out and die. When I choose a president, I'm not panicked and gasping for air. They better be able to convince me that they truly are capable of helping, and not just be the only willing person in the room.

patteeu
01-08-2008, 12:31 AM
I don't think you'd give a Muslim the chance to redeem his entire religion (which is as ridiculous as it sounds). If you were choking and a guy with a turban said he knew the Heimlich, would you refuse his help?

Nah that would be OK, he's probably a Sikh, not a muslim. I doubt that Phobia's had any problems with Sikhs.

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/53/47/23444753.jpg

Phobia
01-08-2008, 12:32 AM
You're missing the point. Voting on stereotypes is shitty. Your stereotypes may be based on personal experience, but they're still stereotypes.
I think I'm gonna have to disagree with this. My experience has nothing to do with common stereotyping. I just happen to have low tolerance for a people who are frequently stereotyped. I think those are two different things.

If I've been screwed in financial transactions by Jews which ultimately led me to develop a dislike for Jews and a reluctance to do business with them in the future - I'm not anti-semitic because of stereotypes but because my experience happens to follow some behaviors that have become stereotypes.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 12:33 AM
That's only if you believe the President is truly running the country.
Unfortunately the problem is much much bigger.

And that there is what I was going to say we'd use as another excuse (in the thread topic) but I didn't want to sway the argument either way.

Your words are something my dad would say.
He'll look for some reason to still blame racism.

By you saying that... I can only assume that you're a racist. My dad has those racist views and spews the same shit you say.

Doesn't matter if you are or aren't as I love/like all people racist or not.

Oh well.

acesn8s
01-08-2008, 12:33 AM
I'm for educating all the smart asses.

FAXYea!!!:toast:

acesn8s
01-08-2008, 12:34 AM
And the dumb asses.

FAXOhh.:spock:

wutamess
01-08-2008, 12:34 AM
What's ignorant about not liking Muslims? Every Muslim I've ever encountered has tried to kill me, screw my wife, break up my family, molest my children, screw me out of money, turn my kids against me, prevent me from seeing my children, move my children 1500 miles away from me, lie, cheat, steal, and generally be nuisance at every encounter.

I think I'm entitled to my opinion and based on my personal experiences there's not a thing wrong with disliking Muslims.

Your ex-wife was Muslim?
You're racist too dude... you need to seek help.

stumppy
01-08-2008, 12:34 AM
I'll probably catch some crap over this but I really don't see a problem with Phobia not voting for someone because of their religion. When I vote for someone I have to feel right about that vote. With religion being a common denomenator in several bad experiences he's had over time I can see where he wouldn't feel right voting for someone of that religion.

wazu
01-08-2008, 12:36 AM
Your ex-wife was Muslim?
You're racist too dude... you need to seek help.

Bigoted, not racist.

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 12:37 AM
Okay, I think Phobia is insane for his views, but this analogy is flawed. If I'm choking, anybody who claims to want to help will be welcome, because by my calculations, I have less than a minute before I pass out and die. When I choose a president, I'm not panicked and gasping for air. They better be able to convince me that they truly are capable of helping, and not just be the only willing person in the room.

The core of my analogy is that in both cases a genuine helpful hand is being offered (we're assuming that the hypothetical Muslim is the best candidate). Why does he accept one and refuse the other? The circumstances are different, but in both cases quality of life is affected.

Of course, he hasn't answered the question yet, so we don't know if he'd hold out until somebody without a turban or yarmulke punches at his stomach.

Phobia
01-08-2008, 12:37 AM
Did Obama (when you thought he was Muslim) do either of those things? No.

I don't think you'd give a Muslim the chance to redeem his entire religion (which is as ridiculous as it sounds). If you were choking and a guy with a turban said he knew the Heimlich, would you refuse his help?

If you wouldn't, then why would you refuse the help of a Muslim with the mission of changing America for the better?

It would probably take more than one to change my attitude, no doubt about that. I've suffered life altering pain as has my entire family due to the actions of the only Muslims I've encountered.

Would I refuse the help of a Muslim if I were choking? Certainly not. I don't know what that has to do with anything though.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 12:37 AM
If people of all races make excuses for their own failings why was such a question ever posed with Blacks in mind?

That's not for you to answer...

Oh Wuta...

You're too predictable.
I changed the topic from "blacks" to "minorities" because I knew you'd attack only what you wanted to argue out of it. I think I changed it before you even posted on this thread which may mean that you could've been assuming (just as everyone else).

FYI: I was mainly talking about blacks.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 12:38 AM
There's nothing inherently wrong with disliking the Muslims you've encountered, but to lump them all into one category? Well that's as ignorant as anything I've ever heard.



You're entitled.
Just know that your opinion of all Muslims is ignorant.

Agreed!
Phil... I can't believe you're serious.
Maybe instead of trying to help that "black/minority" out you should help understand a viewpoint different than yours.

I can't believe your ignorance on this one because of a handful of muslims you've known.

Phobia
01-08-2008, 12:39 AM
Your ex-wife was Muslim?
You're racist too dude... you need to seek help.
No. She ran off with a Muslim and then converted. It doesn't appear (in my admittedly biased) view that it helped.

MadMax
01-08-2008, 12:40 AM
I'll probably catch some crap over this but I really don't see a problem with Phobia not voting for someone because of their religion. When I vote for someone I have to feel right about that vote. With religion being a common denomenator in several bad experiences he's had over time I can see where he wouldn't feel right voting for someone of that religion.


Umm They do seem in the high percentage of peeps that like to blow others up regardless of race creed or religion???? Maybe it's just me. Nah they sux

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 12:40 AM
I think I'm gonna have to disagree with this. My experience has nothing to do with common stereotyping. I just happen to have low tolerance for a people who are frequently stereotyped. I think those are two different things.

If I've been screwed in financial transactions by Jews which ultimately led me to develop a dislike for Jews and a reluctance to do business with them in the future - I'm not anti-semitic because of stereotypes but because my experience happens to follow some behaviors that have become stereotypes.

You're still missing the point. You're voting for the person, not the religion. You're doing business with the person, not the religion.

THE PERSON. NOT. THE. RELIGION.

If the individual person has the merits, I don't care if he believes he was created by a magical pixie, he or she gets my vote, money, whatever.

wazu
01-08-2008, 12:42 AM
It would probably take more than one to change my attitude, no doubt about that. I've suffered life altering pain as has my entire family due to the actions of the only Muslims I've encountered.

Would I refuse the help of a Muslim if I were choking? Certainly not. I don't know what that has to do with anything though.

The most painful things that have happened to me were done by white people. However if I decide to hate white people I have to then hate my children and my wife. It's easier to decide that the "whiteness" of the people who did me harm is an insignificant fact.

Phobia
01-08-2008, 12:43 AM
Bigoted, not racist.

I'll wear that. For the record, I also dislike Asian automobile operators as well. I like Asians but I don't like them behind the wheel.

If I were elected President, my entire platform would hinge upon a national public transportation system designed to get Asians off the streets.

MadMax
01-08-2008, 12:44 AM
I'll wear that. For the record, I also dislike Asian automobile operators as well. I like Asians but I don't like them behind the wheel.

If I were elected President, my entire platform would hinge upon a national public transportation system designed to get Asians off the streets.


ROFL!!!!!!

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 12:44 AM
Would I refuse the help of a Muslim if I were choking? Certainly not. I don't know what that has to do with anything though.

It's demonstrating my point. You're only willing to give a Muslim the benefit of the doubt if you have sixty seconds to live? That's bullshit.

Obama didn't f*ck your wife. The IT guy didn't f*ck your wife. Mos Def didn't f*ck your wife. Some asshole who happened to be Muslim f*cked your wife.

Until we as a society learn that we're dealing with each other as INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE, not concepts, stereotypes or groups, we as a society are f*cked.

Phobia
01-08-2008, 12:45 AM
The most painful things that have happened to me were done by white people. However if I decide to hate white people I have to then hate my children and my wife. It's easier to decide that the "whiteness" of the people who did me harm is an insignificant fact.

Irrelevant. I'm a religious bigot, not a racist.

acesn8s
01-08-2008, 12:45 AM
Take religion out of the equation and vote Atheist.;)

wazu
01-08-2008, 12:47 AM
Irrelevant. I'm a religious bigot, not a racist.

Damn. I really don't even know the religions of all of the people on my "enemies" list.

Phobia
01-08-2008, 12:48 AM
You're still missing the point. You're voting for the person, not the religion. You're doing business with the person, not the religion.

THE PERSON. NOT. THE. RELIGION.

If the individual person has the merits, I don't care if he believes he was created by a magical pixie, he or she gets my vote, money, whatever.

I understand what you're saying. I believe that Muslims are whackos. I wouldn't want a Muslim running my country. For that matter, I wouldn't want Branch Davidians or Scientologists running it either.

acesn8s
01-08-2008, 12:48 AM
It's demonstrating my point. You're only willing to give a Muslim the benefit of the doubt if you have sixty seconds to live? That's bullshit.

Obama didn't f*ck your wife. The IT guy didn't f*ck your wife. Mos Def didn't f*ck your wife. Some asshole who happened to be Muslim f*cked your wife.

Until we as a society learn that we're dealing with each other as INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE, not concepts, stereotypes or groups, we as a society are f*cked.by muslims apparently

Guru
01-08-2008, 12:48 AM
I understand what you're saying. I believe that Muslims are whackos. I wouldn't want a Muslim running my country. For that matter, I wouldn't want Branch Davidians or Scientologists running it either.
Imagine it....

President Cruise. :banghead:

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 12:49 AM
Politics on the Planet are always touchy. I am surprised the thread has stayed this civil.

I'm only an asshole in regards to unimportant things. :D

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 12:49 AM
Take religion out of the equation and vote Atheist.;)

If you vote for or against a guy just because he's Atheist, that's wrong, too.

Micjones
01-08-2008, 12:49 AM
Your words are something my dad would say.
He'll look for some reason to still blame racism.

You don't have anything substantial to contribute to the general discourse so you say the dumbest things that come to mind.

acesn8s
01-08-2008, 12:50 AM
I'm only an asshole in regards to unimportant things. :DSo what is holding you back now?

Phobia
01-08-2008, 12:50 AM
I'll take it a step further. I wouldn't want a Pentecostal running our country either. I have dozens of them in my own family and I think their views are misguided and archaic.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 12:51 AM
Politics on the Planet are always touchy. I am surprised the thread has stayed this civil.

The idiots haven't awoken yet.

acesn8s
01-08-2008, 12:52 AM
If you vote for or against a guy just because he's Atheist, that's wrong, too.So, on what basis should I vote for or against a person?

MadMax
01-08-2008, 12:52 AM
The idiots haven't awoken yet.


Hey im awake. :p lol

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 12:53 AM
Agape love.


I had to google it. I'm kind of a dumbass. I don't think I'm the only dumbass here though, :) so I'll post the definition.

Agapē (IPA: /ˈægəpiː/[1]) (Gk. αγάπη [aˈɣa.pi]), is one of several Greek words translated into English as love. The word has been used in different ways by a variety of contemporary and ancient sources, including Biblical authors. Many have thought that this word represents divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, and thoughtful love. Greek philosophers at the time of Plato and other ancient authors have used forms of the word to denote love of a spouse or family, or affection for a particular activity, in contrast to philia—an affection that could denote either brotherhood or generally non-sexual affection, and eros, an affection of a sexual nature. The term agape is rarely used in ancient manuscripts, but was used by the early Christians to refer to the self-sacrificing love of God for humanity, which they were committed to reciprocating and practicing towards God and among one another.



I agree with you wholeheartedly. That is the love that is required. I don't think you can achieve ANY love without understanding. That's where you and yours have to come in. Again, it's not right. It's not fair, but to win this thing, it's completely neccessary.

Guru
01-08-2008, 12:53 AM
I don't vote against people because of their religion.... I do, however, consider religious stances in my decision though.

Micjones
01-08-2008, 12:53 AM
I had to google it. I'm kind of a dumbass. I don't think I'm the only dumbass here though, :) so I'll post the definition.

Agapē (IPA: /ˈægəpiː/[1]) (Gk. αγάπη [aˈɣa.pi]), is one of several Greek words translated into English as love. The word has been used in different ways by a variety of contemporary and ancient sources, including Biblical authors. Many have thought that this word represents divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, and thoughtful love. Greek philosophers at the time of Plato and other ancient authors have used forms of the word to denote love of a spouse or family, or affection for a particular activity, in contrast to philia—an affection that could denote either brotherhood or generally non-sexual affection, and eros, an affection of a sexual nature. The term agape is rarely used in ancient manuscripts, but was used by the early Christians to refer to the self-sacrificing love of God for humanity, which they were committed to reciprocating and practicing towards God and among one another.



I agree with you wholeheartedly. That is the love that is required. I don't think you can achieve any love without understanding. That's where you and yours have to come in. Again, it's not right. It's not fair, but to win this thing, it's completely neccessary.

We stand in agreement sir.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 12:53 AM
I'll probably catch some crap over this but I really don't see a problem with Phobia not voting for someone because of their religion. When I vote for someone I have to feel right about that vote. With religion being a common denomenator in several bad experiences he's had over time I can see where he wouldn't feel right voting for someone of that religion.

It's not about the vote.
I don't give a shit who he votes for.
But he's a grown ass man and should know by now that no matter what race/sex/religion has wronged him that he can't lump everyone in that group and accept it as the norm.

Phobia
01-08-2008, 12:54 AM
Agreed!
Phil... I can't believe you're serious.
Maybe instead of trying to help that "black/minority" out you should help understand a viewpoint different than yours.

I can't believe your ignorance on this one because of a handful of muslims you've known.

I hope my recent posts have helped to clarify my position. I guess my intolerance is towards religions which I have deemed as "whacko". The dislike for Muslims was merely more deeply rooted due to my experiences with Muslims.

Guru
01-08-2008, 12:54 AM
The idiots haven't awoken yet.
This is the Planet. Idiots are here 24/7. :)

MadMax
01-08-2008, 12:54 AM
You don't have anything substantial to contribute to the general discourse so you say the dumbest things that come to mind.


yer kinda an arrogant lil prick aren't you.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 12:54 AM
Me too, I try and stay away from DC bad for the blood pressure lol


Boy I know you're right.

whoaskew
01-08-2008, 12:54 AM
most immigrants lose their accents completely by the third generation while one minority group has developed and maintained a style of speech, different from all other Americans; why is this?

Based on what I think the answer is, I would say that 4 or 8 years of Obama in the White House will change nothing among that group.

Other people might see things differently, but a few things came to my mind when I read your post:

1. Do you really consider slavery to be just another form of immigration?

2. Do you understand that blacks were stripped of their entire identities (names, history, language, religion, culture, customs, etc.) when they were brought to America as slaves?

3. Is it unreasonable to think that a group of people who are descendants of those slaves, would at a later date get together and develop new customs, language, etc., to try to form some kind of bond with other people in the same situation?


The minority groups that you are comparing blacks to for the most part CHOSE to come to the US. They came to the US fully aware of where they came from and know what they are leaving behind.

Micjones
01-08-2008, 12:54 AM
yer kinda an arrogant lil prick aren't you.

No suh...

But I am allergic to the dumb shit Wuta has to say.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 12:55 AM
I'll wear that. For the record, I also dislike Asian automobile operators as well. I like Asians but I don't like them behind the wheel.

If I were elected President, my entire platform would hinge upon a national public transportation system designed to get Asians off the streets.

ROFL
NICE!

Phobia
01-08-2008, 12:56 AM
It's not about the vote.
I don't give a shit who he votes for.
But he's a grown ass man and should know by now that no matter what race/sex/religion has wronged him that he can't lump everyone in that group and accept it as the norm.

Clearly, I don't. The infamous JD is Catholic and I'm open to a Catholic President.

MadMax
01-08-2008, 12:56 AM
No suh...

But I am allergic to the dumb shit Wuta has to say.


Shakin it boss still shakin it.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 12:56 AM
Ohh.:spock:


Yea!!!:toast:


LMAO I laughed really hard.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 12:57 AM
You don't have anything substantial to contribute to the general discourse so you say the dumbest things that come to mind.

Could be... I'm tired as hell and don't really feel like thinking.

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 12:57 AM
I understand what you're saying.
Oh, good then.

I believe that Muslims are whackos. I wouldn't want a Muslim running my country.

...WAIT A SECOND! Silly Phobia. {Cue laugh track}

For that matter, I wouldn't want Branch Davidians or Scientologists running it either.
Cults and pyramid schemes are different than legit religions. But if somebody who followed those beliefs had platforms that would help America, I wouldn't deny them the vote because of their decidedly unusual religious stances.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 12:58 AM
I had to google it. I'm kind of a dumbass. I don't think I'm the only dumbass here though, :) so I'll post the definition.

Agapē (IPA: /ˈægəpiː/[1]) (Gk. αγάπη [aˈɣa.pi]), is one of several Greek words translated into English as love. The word has been used in different ways by a variety of contemporary and ancient sources, including Biblical authors. Many have thought that this word represents divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, and thoughtful love. Greek philosophers at the time of Plato and other ancient authors have used forms of the word to denote love of a spouse or family, or affection for a particular activity, in contrast to philia—an affection that could denote either brotherhood or generally non-sexual affection, and eros, an affection of a sexual nature. The term agape is rarely used in ancient manuscripts, but was used by the early Christians to refer to the self-sacrificing love of God for humanity, which they were committed to reciprocating and practicing towards God and among one another.



I agree with you wholeheartedly. That is the love that is required. I don't think you can achieve ANY love without understanding. That's where you and yours have to come in. Again, it's not right. It's not fair, but to win this thing, it's completely neccessary.


Uh Eddie...
Doesn't Agape mean BIG or plentiful [/Clark Griswald]

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 12:58 AM
So, on what basis should I vote for or against a person?

Their f*cking platform and whether it helps America.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 01:00 AM
yer kinda an arrogant lil prick aren't you.

Naw... we have heated discussions all the time.
It's fun and I don't take offense to anything on here anyways.
It's all good.

We'd have this same discussion face to face at a barbershop or so.

acesn8s
01-08-2008, 01:00 AM
LMAO I laughed really hard.I am here for your entertainment.

Ugly Duck
01-08-2008, 01:00 AM
If Obama wins the White House in '08, will minorities stop using "the man is holding them down" as an excuse?

If the Chiefs win a SuperBowl, will Planeteers stop saying "DAMNIT, CARL!!"

MadMax
01-08-2008, 01:01 AM
Uh Eddie...
Doesn't Agape mean BIG or plentiful [/Clark Griswald]


Reaaal tomatoe ketchup there Eddie? Nuthin but the best Clark..:)

MadMax
01-08-2008, 01:01 AM
If the Chiefs win a SuperBowl, will Planeteers stop saying "DAMNIT, CARL!!"



**** you and no hell no

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 01:01 AM
I don't vote against people because of their religion.... I do, however, consider religious stances in my decision though.

And I suppose that's unavoidable. It just shouldn't be a deciding factor at all.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 01:02 AM
I'll wear that. For the record, I also dislike Asian automobile operators as well. I like Asians but I don't like them behind the wheel.

If I were elected President, my entire platform would hinge upon a national public transportation system designed to get Asians off the streets.


Boy I know you're right.

MadMax
01-08-2008, 01:03 AM
Naw... we have heated discussions all the time.
It's fun and I don't take offense to anything on here anyways.
It's all good.

We'd have this same discussion face to face at a barbershop or so.



rofl! it's cool im all liquered up so carry on :) I didn't get that damned memo again :(

Phobia
01-08-2008, 01:03 AM
Cults and pyramid schemes are different than legit religions. But if somebody who followed those beliefs had platforms that would help America, I wouldn't deny them the vote because of their decidedly unusual religious stances.
Well, I guess Muslims fall into cult status in my view. They're complete whackos. I'm no expert on Islam but I've been forced to study it some due to the living arrangements of my teens. I've also attended a seminar given by a former Muslim who enlightened me to some practices and beliefs held by Muslims that are pretty frightening to me. I'm not nearly skilled or knowledgeable enough to articulate them for you on this thread but I don't think Muslims should be given a pass simply because they qualify as an official religion and because it's the politically correct thing to do. If I dislike a group's stance I'll generally dislike the group if it impacts my life significantly. That's the case with Muslims for me.

Guru
01-08-2008, 01:03 AM
And I suppose that's unavoidable. It just shouldn't be a deciding factor at all.
ON my table, all factors are important.

Micjones
01-08-2008, 01:03 AM
Naw... we have heated discussions all the time.
It's fun and I don't take offense to anything on here anyways.
It's all good.

We'd have this same discussion face to face at a barbershop or so.

Indeed.

acesn8s
01-08-2008, 01:03 AM
Their f*cking platform and whether it helps America.But isn't one's platform based on one's beliefs? And aren't one's beliefs based on one's religion?

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 01:03 AM
So what is holding you back now?


I'm always good for jokes. I can always come in and do that. Besides, I'm not very good at it. I'll take some civil discourse on this type of thing anytime the intelligence level is right.

Guru
01-08-2008, 01:05 AM
But isn't one's platform based on one's beliefs? And aren't one's beliefs based on one's religion?
Yes and no.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 01:06 AM
yer kinda an arrogant lil prick aren't you.


I don't think so. I think he's rightfully frustrated with people not picking up what he is laying down. Sometimes IMO he comes across sarcastic which is certainly not endearing. I don't think he hates "the man" though.

whoaskew
01-08-2008, 01:07 AM
Based on what I think the answer is, I would say that 4 or 8 years of Obama in the White House will change nothing among that group.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make. It sounds like you are saying that after 4 or 8 years of Obama as president, there will continue to be different dialects of English being used by black people.

Hell, if that is what you are saying, I guess I agree with that. Kind of hard not to.

I can't think of one past US president, who stopped people from having accents. And I don't believe that is the president's job anyway.

acesn8s
01-08-2008, 01:08 AM
I'm always good for jokes. I can always come in and do that. Besides, I'm not very good at it. I'll take some civil discourse on this type of thing anytime the intelligence level is right.We are football fans talking politics. There is no intelligence level.

MadMax
01-08-2008, 01:09 AM
Indeed.



Heh I apologize if I got stupid... Oh wait! Dahhhhh! I like the sense of hunor here but damn don't lure old opinionated ppl into your traps :)

blueballs
01-08-2008, 01:09 AM
Sadly th office of President dosen't mean as much
the pay for the level of skill needed is insulting
and the mud raking you put your family through is shameful

wutamess
01-08-2008, 01:10 AM
I am not sure what point you are trying to make. It sounds like you are saying that after 4 or 8 years of Obama as president, there will continue to be different dialects of English being used by black people.

Hell, if that is what you are saying, I guess I agree with that. Kind of hard not to.

I can't think of one past US president, who stopped people from having accents. And I don't believe that is the president's job anyway.


I think he's referring to the excuses will probably shift to something else.
They may not be "the man" anymore but another "asshole" will pop up at any given moment.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 01:10 AM
If the Chiefs win a SuperBowl, will Planeteers stop saying "DAMNIT, CARL!!"


I'll happily eat the largest serving of crow on this board. Happily. **** that, I'll eat everyone's.

acesn8s
01-08-2008, 01:11 AM
Other people might see things differently, but a few things came to my mind when I read your post:

1. Do you really consider slavery to be just another form of immigration?

2. Do you understand that blacks were stripped of their entire identities (names, history, language, religion, culture, customs, etc.) when they were brought to America as slaves?

3. Is it unreasonable to think that a group of people who are descendants of those slaves, would at a later date get together and develop new customs, language, etc., to try to form some kind of bond with other people in the same situation?


The minority groups that you are comparing blacks to for the most part CHOSE to come to the US. They came to the US fully aware of where they came from and know what they are leaving behind.





I am not sure what point you are trying to make. It sounds like you are saying that after 4 or 8 years of Obama as president, there will continue to be different dialects of English being used by black people.

Hell, if that is what you are saying, I guess I agree with that. Kind of hard not to.

I can't think of one past US president, who stopped people from having accents. And I don't believe that is the president's job anyway.Accents are part of the US. Whether you are from the south, the northeast or Iowa somewhere in this country you sound funny.

MadMax
01-08-2008, 01:11 AM
I don't think so. I think he's rightfully frustrated with people not picking up what he is laying down. Sometimes IMO he comes across sarcastic which is certainly not endearing. I don't think he hates "the man" though.



I reread my errors :) Bastards!!!!!!!! Yay now what's my name gonna be? Sure dont wanna be Pissedincoffee lol

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 01:14 AM
I reread my errors :) Bastards!!!!!!!! Yay now what's my name gonna be? Sure dont wanna be Pissedincoffee lol


LMAO I'm just glad I wasn't "productofmilkman"

Mr. Flopnuts
01-08-2008, 01:15 AM
I reread my errors :) Bastards!!!!!!!! Yay now what's my name gonna be? Sure dont wanna be Pissedincoffee lol


Note that I said picking up what he's laying down as a reference to our boy Eric.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 01:15 AM
Phil...
I don't agree with ANY religion as I feel it's nothing but brainwashing literature.

But at the same time.
You may not agree with some of their practices but if you really think about it. Those women are some REALLY dedicated/disciplined people. We laugh about them being covered up, etc but they do it for the love of their God.

Christians try to act Christian like for the love for THEIR GOD.

There's extremism in both.
Christianity & Islam aren't that far apart.
Islam is actually a spinoff of Christianity.
Many of their stories are similar in the Koran and Bible.


You really should seek to understand.

patteeu
01-08-2008, 01:15 AM
Obama didn't f*ck your wife.

How do you know? It's because he's not a muslim, right?

Thig Lyfe
01-08-2008, 01:16 AM
But isn't one's platform based on one's beliefs? And aren't one's beliefs based on one's religion?

I think there's a difference between believing in what's right for the country and believing in whatever concept of God (or lack of a God) you may have. It obviously can influence policy, but I'm not voting for Huckabee because (for example) he's anti-choice, not because he's Christian, even though his Christianity does inform his anti-choice opinion. Obama is Christian as well but his belief on the issue is different, so I'm voting for him.

But we're getting slightly off-track. Phobia has a totally distorted view of Muslims, and he wouldn't vote for one not because of their beliefs, per se, but because a guy of that belief f*cked his wife. He's grouping them all together and branding them as homicidal wife-f*ckers, and that's wrong.

MadMax
01-08-2008, 01:16 AM
LMAO I'm just glad I wasn't "productofmilkman"


ROFL! I can attest to the fact you don't have red hair :) love ya bro hehe

wutamess
01-08-2008, 01:17 AM
Furthermore... his grandparents or his parents were/are Muslim that's where he gets his name from.

I don't know his religion but I know he's not Muslim.
So now you can vote for him since he meets the non-muslim criteria.

wutamess
01-08-2008, 01:17 AM
How do you know? It's because he's not a muslim, right?

Because he's not Bill Clinton. :shrug:

Phobia
01-08-2008, 01:18 AM
Other people might see things differently, but a few things came to my mind when I read your post:

1. Do you really consider slavery to be just another form of immigration?

2. Do you understand that blacks were stripped of their entire identities (names, history, language, religion, culture, customs, etc.) when they were brought to America as slaves?

3. Is it unreasonable to think that a group of people who are descendants of those slaves, would at a later date get together and develop new customs, language, etc., to try to form some kind of bond with other people in the same situation?


The minority groups that you are comparing blacks to for the most part CHOSE to come to the US. They came to the US fully aware of where they came from and know what they are leaving behind.

Do black folks really know whether their ancestors were slaves or if they immigrated? I know my paternal side immigrated in the early 1900's but I don't know anything beyond that. The only cultural item we continue to embrace is a pastry we make at Christmas.

I'm not trying to belittle that stance, just understand why something from nearly 2 centuries ago continues to be such an issue for people. Most folks think those impacted by Pearl Harbor should get over the whole Japan hate and that was merely 50 years ago. I'm not trying to compare Pearl Harbor to slavery, just coming up with the closest thing I could associate with regard to time frames.

stumppy
01-08-2008, 01:21 AM
It's not about the vote.
I don't give a shit who he votes for.
But he's a grown ass man and should know by now that no matter what race/sex/religion has wronged him that he can't lump everyone in that group and accept it as the norm.


I seriously doubt Phobia thinks ALL muslims are going to try and kill him or commit adultry with his wife or posion his childrens minds against him. But when you vote for someone you're putting your faith in that person. If previous experiences with people who have the same beliefs as a particular candidate have consistently ended up with you getting the short end of the stick I can see where you wouldn't want to vote for that person.

MadMax
01-08-2008, 01:21 AM
Note that I said picking up what he's laying down as a reference to our boy Eric.


So you can smell what the Rock is cooking??? Heeelllll yaaa! Damn it's good to see you here bud.. You back up in the crizack? Seattle I mean? and how is the family? Dude yer awesome and ya know it. Don't worry I won't get all sentimental, just sayin hello

wutamess
01-08-2008, 01:21 AM
Do black folks really know whether their ancestors were slaves or if they immigrated? I know my paternal side immigrated in the early 1900's but I don't know anything beyond that. The only cultural item we continue to embrace is a pastry we make at Christmas.

I'm not trying to belittle that stance, just understand why something from nearly 2 centuries ago continues to be such an issue for people. Most folks think those impacted by Pearl Harbor should get over the whole Japan hate and that was merely 50 years ago. I'm not trying to compare Pearl Harbor to slavery, just coming up with the closest thing I could associate with regard to time frames.

It shouldn't but it does.
YOU KNOW WHERE YOU CAME FROM.
You know you're a Neanderthal from Persia (wanna know how I know you're gay?)

We just think/guess that we were slaves and our history was stripped.
Like I said... it doesn't really matter but it does.

Micjones
01-08-2008, 01:21 AM
Do black folks really know whether their ancestors were slaves or if they immigrated? I know my paternal side immigrated in the early 1900's but I don't know anything beyond that. The only cultural item we continue to embrace is a pastry we make at Christmas.

I'm not trying to belittle that stance, just understand why something from nearly 2 centuries ago continues to be such an issue for people. Most folks think those impacted by Pearl Harbor should get over the whole Japan hate and that was merely 50 years ago. I'm not trying to compare Pearl Harbor to slavery, just coming up with the closest thing I could associate with regard to time frames.

Slavery was an institution that extended well beyond 1865.
That's why it's still significant.

Phobia
01-08-2008, 01:22 AM
But we're getting slightly off-track. Phobia has a totally distorted view of Muslims, and he wouldn't vote for one not because of their beliefs, per se, but because a guy of that belief f*cked his wife. He's grouping them all together and branding them as homicidal wife-f*ckers, and that's wrong.
I think I've done a better job of articulating my thoughts in more recent posts.

Besides, I don't think grouping Muslims as homicidal is that big of a stretch to be honest.