Obama's Church, why isn't this questioned like Mitt's or the republicans.

[bkkcoh]

link (http://www.tucc.org/home.htm)

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

Does any of the information about the church concern anyone?

does Obama really believe all of the 'doctrines' of the church

[HonestChieffan]

It will be an issue when its made an issue.

[ChiefsGirl]

link (http://www.tucc.org/home.htm)



The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

Does any of the information about the church concern anyone?

does Obama really believe all of the 'doctrines' of the church

Because the only people who care are Republicans and not voting in Democratic primaries?

[Forward Dante]

Media is still fawning, give it time.

[banyon]

Does any of the information about the church concern anyone?

No. It sounds like the creeds that a lot of Black churches carry. i don't see any big deal with it.[/quote]

does Obama really believe all of the 'doctrines' of the church

probably not.

[HolmeZz]

This was already brought up a while ago. Most of you just don't pay attention.

[Sully]

It'll be a bigger deal once he hits the general, in fact, I think it'll be made a huge deal.
But among Dems, where people are typically more tolerant of beliefs that aren't along the mainstream lines, I can't see how it will be made a big deal.

[BigRedChief]

It will be an issue when its made an issue.
Why is it an issue at all? Are we going to hold individuals responsible for the actions of their religious affiliations?

What about Mormons and Catholics? I'm not saying this, but you could make an argument that both religions believe that the rest of us non-believers are going to burn in the ever lasting fires of hell if we don't convert to their way of seeing God and their way of worship.

It doesn't sound like religion is a huge force in his life. That presidential decisions will be based on what he hears sittting in the church pew on Sunday.

From Wikipedia:
In Chapter 6 of the book, titled "Faith," Obama writes that he "was not raised in a religious household." He describes his mother, raised by non-religious parents, as detached from religion, yet "in many ways the most spiritually awakened person that I have ever known." He describes his Kenyan father as "raised a Muslim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim)," but a "confirmed atheist" by the time his parents met, and his Indonesian stepfather as "a man who saw religion as not particularly useful." The chapter details how Obama, in his twenties, while working with local churches as a community organizer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_organizing), came to understand "the power of the African American religious tradition to spur social change." Obama writes: "It was because of these newfound understandings—that religious commitment did not require me to suspend critical thinking, disengage from the battle for economic and social justice, or otherwise retreat from the world that I knew and loved—that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright) one day and be baptized."[136] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#_note-124)

[HolmeZz]

It'll be a bigger deal once he hits the general, in fact, I think it'll be made a huge deal.
But among Dems, where people are typically more tolerant of beliefs that aren't along the mainstream lines, I can't see how it will be made a big deal.

It could be a good tactic to get the hicks out in full force. But I don't think any of them were very likely to vote for Obama to begin with. It'll be more about turning out the rednecks than converting supporters Obama already has.

[BigRedChief]

It'll be a bigger deal once he hits the general, in fact, I think it'll be made a huge deal.
But among Dems, where people are typically more tolerant of beliefs that aren't along the mainstream lines, I can't see how it will be made a big deal.
I think they public has moved on. He admitted to smoking pot, doing cocaine etc.in college. Seems to me that would be a bigger deal than this. But getting a hummer in the oval office was a big deal to most people also.

[Sully]

I think they public has moved on. He admitted to smoking pot, doing cocaine etc.in college. Seems to me that would be a bigger deal than this. But getting a hummer in the oval office was a big deal to most people also.

I'm just saying that I believe, if/when he makes it to the general, this will be one of the top wedge issues the republicans will use against him. I don't think he needs to answer for it, personally, but for him to diffuse the situation once it arises...he will probably (and probably already does) have to have an answer for it.

[patteeu]

I agree that there is a complete double standard. And what you're seeing is the toned-down version of that website.

Since Obama's campaign began, the "About Us" page of his church's website has changed. I can't help but think that they revamped it to soften it in terms of controversiality for Obama's sake. Here is what their "About Us" page says today:

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

Here is what it said in March of this year:

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Black Community
3. Commitment to the Black Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.

[jAZ]

This was already brought up a while ago. Most of you just don't pay attention.
MSNBC:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200702090009

AP:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17701499/

Chicago Sun-Times
http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/437415,CST-NWS-obama21.article

Snopes/Email:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/church.asp

[StcChief]

because he's black and questions their beliefs won't be tolerated by NAACP, media etc.

[bkkcoh]

I think they public has moved on. He admitted to smoking pot, doing cocaine etc.in college. Seems to me that would be a bigger deal than this. But getting a hummer in the oval office was a big deal to most people also.


But what about the floating cross? I think it goes back to the biased press, if it truly was a right-wing controlled press, don't you think that it would be more of a news story?

[I know I am going to get blasted for the previous statement]

[stevieray]

disavowal of middleclassness? now I know that means striving for upper class..and that's fine...but middleclass is usually the step before upperclass... but could this be a reason we have so many illegals doing construction?

[HolmeZz]

But what about the floating cross? I think it goes back to the biased press, if it truly was a right-wing controlled press, don't you think that it would be more of a news story?

[I know I am going to get blasted for the previous statement]

It was already a news story. I've heard just as much about Obama's Church through the media as I have Romney's mormonism. Hell, originally the media(ok, Fox) accused Obama of being a muslim who attended a radical madrassa as a child. Has any other candidate been accused of something as bad as that?

[Mr. Kotter]

It will be an issue. Personally, I don't think it's a big deal.

Pubs will re-visit it in the general, without a doubt though.

[patteeu]

disavowal of middleclassness? now I know that means striving for upper class..and that's fine...but middleclass is usually the step before upperclass... but could this be a reason we have so many illegals doing construction?

That's one of the ones that caught my eye too.

[Ultra Peanut]

because he's black and questions their beliefs won't be tolerated by NAACP, media etc.And I guess nobody's making a big deal about Mitt's magic underwear because he's black, right?

[patteeu]

And I guess nobody's making a big deal about Mitt's magic underwear because he's black, right?

Anyone can wear the magic underwear. It's not a separatist movement.

[Ultra Peanut]

Anyone can wear the magic underwear. Not until the '70s.

[NewPhin]

Hold on, I though the was a muslim? After all, he was sworn in on the Koran. ROFL

[bkkcoh]

Anyone can wear the magic underwear. It's not a separatist movement.


Separating the boys down there, is that really needed.....

[patteeu]

Not until the '70s.

That's more than a lifetime to you.

[Ultra Peanut]

That's more than a lifetime to you.You're old.

[Adept Havelock]

Not until the '70s.

1979, IIRC.

[patteeu]

You're old.

With age comes wisdom. Someday you'll see. ;)

[Cochise]

I agree that there is a complete double standard. And what you're seeing is the toned-down version of that website.

Since Obama's campaign began, the "About Us" page of his church's website has changed. I can't help but think that they revamped it to soften it in terms of controversiality for Obama's sake. Here is what their "About Us" page says today:



Here is what it said in March of this year:

Whoa, I didn't know they were preaching that kind of stuff.

Very interesting that they have revised all of the stuff on their website.

[HonestChieffan]

The public has not moved one whit. Its the NH Primary Day. The average guy in the other 48 states has not been heard from. The fact is the Demos are seeing a minor implosion taking place...their preseason fav as it were has stumbled, they have this new chap that is really an unknown, and a trial lawyer who lost once before..politics does not reward failure in most cases with a second shot.

So right now the Great Obama is on a roll. Good for him. The final measure will take place post convention when we see and hear what whomever tha pick are actually stand for.

Obamas weaknesses are not race based. They are experience based, understanding based, and the fact his record is very short, very thin, and very liberal. His beliefs and church membership will be an issue with those voters who have that as a high priority in their selection criteria. His liberality will bean issue with those voters who have that as a high priority in their selection criteria. And yes his race will be an issue with those voters who have that as a high priority in their selection criteria.

He will be vulnerable in the bright sunshine of an all out campaign. Thats why old line hard core demos want Hillary so badly.

[HolmeZz]

You can tell how scared a lot of the right is. I like it.

[BigRedChief]

The public has not moved one whit. Its the NH Primary Day. The average guy in the other 48 states has not been heard from. The fact is the Demos are seeing a minor implosion taking place...their preseason fav as it were has stumbled, they have this new chap that is really an unknown, and a trial lawyer who lost once before..politics does not reward failure in most cases with a second shot.

So right now the Great Obama is on a roll. Good for him. The final measure will take place post convention when we see and hear what whomever tha pick are actually stand for.

Obamas weaknesses are not race based. They are experience based, understanding based, and the fact his record is very short, very thin, and very liberal. His beliefs and church membership will be an issue with those voters who have that as a high priority in their selection criteria. His liberality will bean issue with those voters who have that as a high priority in their selection criteria. And yes his race will be an issue with those voters who have that as a high priority in their selection criteria.

He will be vulnerable in the bright sunshine of an all out campaign. Thats why old line hard core demos want Hillary so badly.
Says the guy who told us Obama took an oath of office on a Koran.:shake:

[ChiefsGirl]

and a trial lawyer who lost once before..politics does not reward failure in most cases with a second shot.


Umm, haven't there been numerous presidents who lost in primaries before getting the nomination? Like Bush I, Reagan and Nixon to name a few. Didn't Nixon lose to JFK in the general election before becoming president?

[Cochise]

You can tell how scared a lot of the right is. I like it.

Some people might be scared, but I have a lot of faith in the American people. He may well win but it won't be before there's been a chance to put liberalism out before the American people and let them see it and not just a mystery box of charisma, which I think is all the bon-bon eaters, the Oprah crowd and the network TV watchers are seeing right now.

[HonestChieffan]

Yes, all correct. But on the whole, the political party system does not swing back support once you have failed. Thus my "in most cases" as opposed to "ever or never"

[Cochise]

Umm, haven't there been numerous presidents who lost in primaries before getting the nomination? Like Bush I, Reagan and Nixon to name a few. Didn't Nixon lose to JFK in the general election before becoming president?

Iowa and New Hampshire are more indicative of the pulse for the Democrats. They are liberal states that don't largely represent the attitudes of Republican voters like the states to follow will, like South Carolina.

[Laz]

why i wanted clinton to stay in the lead for awhile longer ......

[BucEyedPea]

link (http://www.tucc.org/home.htm)
The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
So we get rid of one president committed to a Project for a New American Century in the Mid-East to replace it with someone committed to Africa?
How about being committed to America?
This explains his inclinations on committing American troops to Dafur.
Does it ever end?

10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
Why is it that so many black leaders buy into collectivist mind set of equality?
I know there are exceptions like Sowell, Watts and Keyes but really....economic parity is just a softer word for communism aka Marxism. Or at least a sense of property that falls in this camp. He's going to resdistribute wealth to lift his people up.

Does any of the information about the church concern anyone?

does Obama really believe all of the 'doctrines' of the church

patteeu had a thread on this earlier where we dicussed this. I saw the earlier one and it's definitely been toned down.

Between this, and the leading Republicans who are just the softer-side of this mind set plus a raging craving for war on the MidEast....I'm about ready to stop voting or join a real revolution. America is losing it.

[BucEyedPea]

Iowa and New Hampshire are more indicative of the pulse for the Democrats. They are liberal states that don't largely represent the attitudes of Republican voters like the states to follow will, like South Carolina.
New Hampshire is NOT a liberal state. It's a conservative state. It's liscense plates say "live free or die" on them which the Mass liberals diss. Before entering into Mass there is a sign that says 'Gun control strictly enforced!" It's full of bullet holes. Many people in NH are from Mass these days and many left over the past 30 years because Mass was too liberal.


The only thing one could say for it being liberal is that more liberals have entered who have tried to change the conservative leanings. But it's not a full blown conversion. There's a lot of right libertarians there too.

[StcChief]

New Hampshire is NOT a liberal state. It's a conservative state. It's liscense plates say "live free or die" on them which the Mass liberals diss. Before entering into Mass there is a sign that says 'Gun control strictly enforced!" It's full of bullet holes. Many people in NH are from Mass these days and many left over the past 30 years because Mass was too liberal.


The only thing one could say for it being liberal is that more liberals have entered who have tried to change the conservative leanings. But it's not a full blown conversion. There's a lot of right libertarians there too.

It would still be way to close...

Like the Grateful Dead lyrics.... Houston too close to New Orleans.

[irishjayhawk]

It was already a news story. I've heard just as much about Obama's Church through the media as I have Romney's mormonism. Hell, originally the media(ok, Fox) accused Obama of being a muslim who attended a radical madrassa as a child. Has any other candidate been accused of something as bad as that?

Is it that bad? ;)

[Calcountry]

This is a critical time in our country's history and they run out this field of candidates for us, what a joke. Nothing but a bunch of pandering idiots. Me too! Me too! I'll give you health care, but my health care plan is better. I will get the troops out of Iraq, but only faster, etc. etc.

I am a more compassionate Huckster, vote for me.
Those other guys, they are good guys, but I am a more good guy than them, I can't tell you specifically how, but just trust me, I am that guy.

[Ugly Duck]

Obama's Church, why isn't this questioned like Mitt's or the republicans.

Who is questioning the Republicans' churches? Gotta link?

[Ugly Duck]

I have a lot of faith in the American people. He may well win but it won't be before there's been a chance to put liberalism out before the American people and let them see it

Good. We've had a damn good look at Republicans do when they have power.... unmitigated disaster that has every candidate squealing CHANGE!! CHANGE!! CHANGE!! Everybody and their brother want to distance themselves from this Republican mess - even Republicans. America has seen what the conservatives do when they have control and is rejecting it in droves. "Liberalism" looks pretty damn good next to this Republican disaster.

[patteeu]

Who is questioning the Republicans' churches? Gotta link?

Ultra Peanut was saying something about magic underwear just a few hours ago.

[HonestChieffan]

Good. We've had a damn good look at Republicans do when they have power.... unmitigated disaster that has every candidate squealing CHANGE!! CHANGE!! CHANGE!! Everybody and their brother want to distance themselves from this Republican mess - even Republicans. America has seen what the conservatives do when they have control and is rejecting it in droves. "Liberalism" looks pretty damn good next to this Republican disaster.

1) All legislation begins in the House or Senate
2) Pelosi and Reid are Democrats
3) Democrats are the majority party.