PDA

View Full Version : Gonzo Raves More About Green


The Bad Guy
07-30-2001, 05:22 PM
The more and more I'm hearing about Trent Green, the more I love.

Gonzalez was on 810 around 6:15, and talked in detail about how he has never been around a quarterback that leads like Trent Green.

He said that the week after the Green trade went down after the draft, Trent called up Tony, T-Rich, DA, and several other Chiefs and rented out a press box at Royals Stadium so everyone could get to know eachother better.

To me, this is a great sign of a player who will go above and beyond to form team unity.

Gonzo then went onto say, that he wasn't slammin Elvis, but Grbac never once was like this.

I just keep hearing these great things about Trent, and can't wait for the season.

Things are finally coming together. Green's knee is better now than it was all of last year. He is throwing the ball great, and the teammates love what he brings to the table.

Thank you Carl Peterson for renewing my faith in Kansas City Chiefs football. This is the first time I will give CP any props, but bringing Vermeil in was the best move CP has ever made for his organization.

DaWolf
07-30-2001, 05:35 PM
While I'm pleased to see Trent doing these things and the players talking about him, I wanna see it on the field...

tommykat
07-30-2001, 07:34 PM
DaWolf:

Chiefs Pantalones
07-30-2001, 07:36 PM
Are you proposing?

:D

tommykat
07-30-2001, 07:47 PM
DaWolf :
Sorry it posted before I got to say anything......

WHY DO YOU SEEM TO BE SO PESTIMISTIC ABOUT TRENT???


:eek: :eek:

OK, I confess....I've made some guy friends on The Rams board and so far everything they told me about Trent Green is true! He is a for real guy and just your average typical guy. What he did is something he would/did in St. Louis. So why do you continue to wonder/want to wait till the season to say he his an awesome guy? Player? HEY.........it''s just training camp! For what you say as a BUM knee he is doing awesome, and he is protecting it for Nov and Dec. especially. :p :p

So I would say given what we know thus far(little)give the guy a break.;)

Rausch
07-30-2001, 08:02 PM
Tommycat,


there is a difference between a pesimist and a realist.


Green is just that....green. He's had limited experience and hasn't won a playoff game, hasn't started a whole season, and hasn't played for one team more than three years.

I'm not saying he WON'T be a good player here, I'm just not going to say he WILL BE because he's a class act and a leader OFF the field.

He has to:

1)stay healthy. Anything more than 2 or 3 games missed is not acceptable. This Guy is always injured.

2)Be productive. I don't mean go to the probowl, I mean be a qb and a leader good enough to give us a .500 record and display enough to make KC fans feel justified in Carl giving up a #1...

tommykat
07-30-2001, 08:28 PM
Brad,
AND ELVIS WAS ALL OF THIS????? OR MONTANA????? Not to be hard, but we are just beginning and he deserves some breaks. Hardly anyone is giving him a break.

OK......his knee??? tell me ONE player that isn't or hasn't had a major injury that is still around.......I mean LOOK AT MARSHALL FAULK? << Those are the kind of players I am talking about. Do you see what I mean?;)

Rausch
07-30-2001, 08:34 PM
I do realize that....


I also realize that:

1)Faulk has won a super bowl AND been NFL MVP.

2)Montana won 4 super bowls and is argued by many to be the best qb of all time.

Green has never started a whole season. He has 1 playoff game. He is ALWAYS injured.

The guy has talent and leadership qualities, we'll have to wait and see how he does the next few years. But he can't lead us to the super bowl on the sidelines. Montana was fragile as blown glass, but we also had MONSTERS on the line protecting him. We don't have that luxery now....

aturnis
07-30-2001, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by BRAD_CAUDLE
This Guy is always injured.

How do you figure Brad?

tommykat
07-30-2001, 08:41 PM
Brad,
How do you know that we don't have those qualites yet? Just the beginning of practice and the defense is looking more awesome than they have. As far as offensie??? Shoot, we whipped the Rams last year like no one has.....and not maybe half the players we had???
Look out........if Faulk can play with a bum knee as last year LOOK what Green will do for us. Not to mention, seems that he is saving alot of it for Nov. and Dec. So the articles I've read are saying.......:p

aturnis
07-30-2001, 08:46 PM
On Trent Green

Originally posted by BRAD_CAUDLE
He is ALWAYS injured.

I still want to know.......how do you figure?

Rausch
07-30-2001, 08:53 PM
Green has not started one full season. Heck, not even 15 games......go look it up...



He started 14 games in 98 for the skins, and 5 for the Rams last year.....THAT'S IT...8 years, 19 games.....



What about 19 games in 8 years should be a "lock" about this guy?


I'm not saying the guy doesn't have great POTENTIAL, he just hasn't proved anything yet....

aturnis
07-31-2001, 01:18 AM
Despite what you are saying I have yet to find any proof that he's ALWAYS injured. And JUST for your information he hasn't been in the league 8 yrs., only 7, he wasn't playing in '94, he didn't have a team. I'll run you through and tell you why he has so few starts.....

1993 - Drafted by Chargers for the reason of becoming their 'Project B!tch'..........

1994 - Released from Chargers b/c of the new standards wanted out of their players after winning the AFC West...found himself without a job for the season.

1995 - Signed by the Redskins probably so they could continue developing him where the Chargers left off.

1996 - Was still being developed.....

1997 - See above......

1998 - 'Skins put him in for the injured Gus Frerotte, after his great performance, they started started him the rest of the season (14 games). He lead them to a 6-3 record in the last 9 games of the season.

1999 In his 3rd preseason game against San Diego he completed 28 of 32 passes for 406 yards and two touchdowns...completion percentage of 87.5, which was highest among NFL quarterbacks in the preseason with at least 30 attempts....but was injured. Missed entire regular season with his FIRST and only injury as a QB in the NFL.

2000 - After losing his starting job to the stellar performance of the league and Superbowl MVP he was forced to watch from the sidelines although Vermeil stated that he was healthy enough to start, but lost him job to the better player. Green stepped in for the injured Kurt Warner....

His stats for his 2000 play were:

-- Played 8 games...starting 5
-- Attempted 240 passes
-- Completed 145 passes
-- 60.4 completion percentage
-- Threw for 2063 yards
-- 8.6 Yards per attempt
-- longest throw 64 yds.
-- 16 Touchdowns
-- 5 Interceptions
-- QB rating 101.8
(All of this in 8 games....3 of which he didn't even start!)

Now, does that sound like an ALWAYS injured player? I'll answer it for you cuz I know and you know that the answer is NO!

Now......his knee has been better and able to play on for over a year now, it has just been "irritated" after the surgery to remove the scarr tissue. His knee is in better condition to play on than it was when he played last year, only problem is it will swell with fluids b/c of the recent surgery, that should be fine in no time. If it does act up in the regular season, either they inject stuff in.....sucction fluid out, or he can be tough as nails and drain it himself with a razor in the lockerroom at halftime. So I think your ALWAYS injured 'theory' holds no water.

Also found this little blip of what ESPN thinks of him on their site to give you Green hopefuls a little more faith.......
- Emerging talent after being dependable backup...smart, intelligent player...accurate, efficient passer with good mechanics and leadership skills...

Saggysack
07-31-2001, 01:38 AM
I am only aware of 1 major injury Green has faced, his knee. I do remember him going thru some little football bumps and bruises when starting for the Skins but other than that he isn't injury prone IMHO.

keg in kc
07-31-2001, 02:45 AM
For some reason I was thinking about Green earlier, and I'm gonna share a few of those thoughts, random as they are:

When we were discussing the Green trade, these were the main points I used against giving up a 1st and a 3rd (like I've said, I'm happy with the deal we got, but that doesn't make me a Green homer...):

1) He's sack prone

2) He's unproven, and anything he's done is a product of those surrounding him

3) He's very inexperienced for his age


Now, thinking about it (I'll admit I didn't think about this until now...), I see several counterpoints to all of those arguments I used before:

1) The offensive lines for both the Redskins in '98 and Rams in '00 were pathetic. Gus Frerotte took a real beating (12 sacks in 3 games) before he was replaced by Green, and Kurt Warner got hit pretty hard last year as well - with the exception of weeks 1-3 and week 15. Those 4 weeks he was sacked 3 times (.75 per game). The remaining 7 weeks he was sacked 17 times (2.4 per game). I think it's fair to call that "poor line play".

2) He is largely unproven, but he had flashes of brilliance in both Washington and St. Louis. He may have been surrounded with tremendous talent last year, but the Washington roster consisted of Terry Allen, Skip Hicks, Stephen Davis (still a FB) and Brian Mitchell running the ball, Stephen Alexander and Jamie Asher at TE, and Albert Connell, Leslie Shepherd, Chris Thomas, James Thrash and Mike Westbrook at receiver (44 catches was the best on the team). Despite this, he threw for 3440 yards (at a 56% click) with 23 TDs and only 11 ints. Not bad.

3) Maybe a victim of the Steve Beuerlein/Rich Gannon "I can't get a break" syndrome. Late blooming QBs are nothing out-of-the-ordinary these days it seems...


First I thought of all that. Then another epiphany hit me. I think I might begin to understand some of what people on the team may be seeing in this guy. Some of this "leadership". Think about his career:

He doesn't get into a regular-season game until his 5th year after being drafted and even then he only gets one attemp. Still he sticks with it. Now that's perseverence. I can respect that.

He finally gets some starts in '98, and although he started slowly, he really played well in the second half of the year. Mike Martz, his QB coach in DC takes him to St. Louis. People start to think he might be a pretty decent QB and that St. Louis might start to get a little tougher. Most people are talking about Marshall Faulk (although nobody expected him to do what he's done...), but Green was also a topic of interest.

In '99 he simply lights up the preseason. Then, on a cheap hit, his knee is destroyed. Season over before it started, and I can't pretend to know what Green felt, but it had to be a crushing blow. And if that wasn't bad enough, he is forced to watch from the sidelines as Kurt Warner goes from grocery boy to MVP to Super Bowl champion, maybe the greatest single story in sports in the latter half of the 20th century.

Still he perseveres. He works hard in rehab and in only one year he has recovered enough from his complete knee reconstruction to be Warner's backup. Warner goes down against us in week 8, and Green gets his turn. He gets pummeled. Sack after sack after sack, and still he throws for a 101.8 rating and over 2000 yards.


I like what I see now that I've stopped to really think about it. I see a hard worker. I see a guy who doesn't quit and who works hard to overcome whatever challenge he faces. This is the kind of guy I want on the field. I think the days of "ohmigod I just threw an int for a td, I'd better lay prone and act hurt" are over. Maybe this is part of what Dick Vermeil and Al Saunders see in the guy, and what the team seems to be seeing in him. Maybe not, but I'll say it again, I never really stopped to think about this before.


As for the injury thing - I hadn't thought much about that either. Well, he played pretty well last season, and he's said on more than one occasion this summer that he's further along now than he was then. He took 24 sacks last season and didn't miss a beat. That says he's tough. Now, that doesn't mean I don't want to fix that particular problem - nobody wants the qb to be on his a$$ too much - but he didn't seem to have problems with contact last year. If he was injury-prone, I don't think he'd have survived 24 sacks a year after a major knee reconstruction. Call me crazy, but I'm not that concerned about the knee at this point. The sacks I'm concerned about, but I just don't think he's an injury waiting to happen. You obviously have to worry about normal wear-and-tear and I'm concerned about the backup QB position (just as I was last season...), but if Green gets injured this year it's not because he's injury prone, it's because he wasn't protected well-enough, or he was the victim of another freak hit. In other words, I'm no less comfortable with Green back there than I would be with any other QB.


Now, all that said, don't think I'm getting soft. The guy has to prove it on the field over the course of the next few years. He cost us a first round pick, and that's what we need in return. But I'm beginning to see some real positives. I think he might be a tough guy who can take a hit and pop back up and I think he's a "never say die/never quit" guy, and that's a big thing that I believe KC has been missing for a few years (not a slant on any QBs, just the way I feel...). Maybe we have a leader, at long last...

Time will tell.

Sorry for the randomness. ;)

DaWolf
07-31-2001, 03:15 AM
tommycat,
Personally, I am optimistic about Trent. However, I have decided to temper my optimism right now because:

A) After 4 years of backing Grbac, mainly because there was so much negativity surrounding him and I was trying to help balance it with some positive vibes, there are a lot of positive vibes overall here with Green, so instead of joining in the fray, I'm adopting the wait and see stance, so we don't all look like we're looking at this thing with rose colored glasses. I just like doing the devil's advocate sort of things at times, depending on the mood of fans towards players. :)

B) I don't want to jump on the attaboy Trent bandwagon too much because I spent half an offseason ripping the guy in front of Rams fans arguing he wasn't worth a first round pick. Hopefully he does prove to be worth that, though.

C) As we know, most players when asked about other players are going to focus on positives rather than negatives, and we're going to hear all sorts of great things about them. I remember all the great things that were said about Elvis the last couple of years and how he looked amazing in practice and how Grunny was saying Elvis was a great leader. You can just never tell until a guy straps on a helmet and it is 4th and goal with 7 seconds to go...

Rausch
07-31-2001, 05:31 AM
never say I'm a man who can't admit he's wrong....:D


HAS he had injury problems?

Yes.

Is he ALWAYS injured?

NO. That may have been unfair. In my mind and in the minds of many though he IS unproven. No one around here should get a free pass or exemption from healthy criticism. My three points that I still argue:

1)Play on the field outweighs feel good stories and early optomism. He comes out and plays well for us(win, loose, or draw) and shows a near mastery of the system, he was worth a no 1...

2)OTHER than the occasional swelling and minor discomfort the knee issue must go away. By next year we need to be talking about ANYTHING other than his knees. If he finishes the season missing 3 or fewer games and there is no knee to blame, I have no problems with his health.

3)Contract. I may be wrong, but I believe that after this season or next Green is a FA. That is when we see how bad he wants to stay here, how loyal he is, and if he rewards CARL/DV for going out on a limb to get this guy.

ExtremeChief
07-31-2001, 06:20 AM
The snippets from training camp we are hearing sound great. But why wouldn't they??? While it seems that Green is the antigrbac as far as personality and leadership, it remains to be seen what will transpire on the field. While I'm not worried about Green's knee, I am concerned about his "sackability". Behind the offensive line we had 2 years ago, I would think his sack/att numbers would come down...but with the changes in the offensive line, I don't really know what to expect.

The news coming from TC about Blaylock sounds better everyday. He's quick, makes good cuts, and other than the punt returning problems, sounds like he may get some playing time. One question though....remember Jessie Haynes???

I believe the "weakest link" right now may be wide receiver. While Slymo would have only been in his second year, I do believe he had the potential to be better than Horne or Mayes at that position. While I think Snoop is a good addition, I think he would be better suited for the #3 spot. So who do we use at #2??? I just wish we had a more "proven" receiver to open in that spot.

DB is scary as well...hopefully Crockett will be there more for guidance than talent. His experience should be very valuable to Dennis, Bartee and Warfield. I hope DV lets the young kids play and learn...they probably won't get burnt any worse than we've seen Crockett get burnt.

Ok ( I'll refrain from the negativity) ...I do want to say I am excited about the upcoming season, if for no other reason than we are going to see some major changes. IMO we were due some "overhauling" and while the price we have paid (picks) may have been very expensive, I believe this team is heading on the right track.

with guarded optimism...

everyone's mom
07-31-2001, 06:57 AM
camp report:

-Tony Gonzalez felt the team was starting to come together. "We are starting to really get along; starting to get to love each other." Gonzalez also felt that quarterback Trent Green brings a new aspect to the team that other quarterbacks did not. "What separates Trent from the others is his ability to lead us," Gonzalez said


the chiefs love each other?