John McCain was not born in the United States...

[Taco John]

...Will it become a problem for him?


This is an interesting situation, as he was born outside of the US. I wonder if this issue will ever get raised.

[alnorth]

...Will it become a problem for him?


This is an interesting situation, as he was born outside of the US. I wonder if this issue will ever get raised.

Irrelevant, his parents were Americans, so he is a natural-born citizen.

The location of birth is relevant only when someone's parents were not American (since the US gives citizenship to anyone who is born here), but if your parents are American, you can be born in the international space station in orbit over the Indian Ocean and still be eligible to run for president.

[jAZ]

where was he born?

[Forward Dante]

Panama canal zone

[Ultra Peanut]

Born to American citizens on a US base in a US territory (at the time). He's run for President twice now.

No, I don't think this is going to be an issue.

[Cochise]

If your parents are citizens you are still a citizen, no matter where you are born.

It's not "Oh thank goodness my parents managed to get back in the US before my mom went into labor so I would be a citizen"

[noa]

He took our jaaaabs

[D2112]

Shocking! shocking I tell you!

[ChiefaRoo]

Wasn't his dad an Admiral in the Navy? Typical military family.

[D2112]

Wasn't his dad an Admiral in the Navy? Typical military family.
Yes, this is not unusual. military brats (as they call themselves) are sometimes born and reared over seas. I don't see this effecting McCain.

[mikey23545]

Sweet Mother McGillicuddy.

[Adept Havelock]

Probably about as big a deal as it was for AuH20 in '64 (AZ territory, not a state), or George Romney in '68 (Mexico), or when McCain ran in '00.

In other words, not at all.

[alnorth]

Probably about as big a deal as it was for AuH20 in '64

Nice. Chemistry joke. You dont see those very often.

[Adept Havelock]

Nice. Chemistry joke. You dont see those very often.

Thanks. I can't take credit for it. It was inspired by a button in my campaign button collection. It's next to one that has Joe Louis endorsing Willkie.

Yeah, I collect odd things.

[bkkcoh]

...Will it become a problem for him?


This is an interesting situation, as he was born outside of the US. I wonder if this issue will ever get raised.

Afraid that he may be a problem for the democrats to beat???

[Cochise]

And, didn't we own the canal zone back then anyway?

[alnorth]

Afraid that he may be a problem for the democrats to beat???

Honestly, I'm not crazy about his chances at all (it would be really nice if the Dems nominate Hillary, oh please oh please), but the GOP field sucks so badly, I believe McCain is the best chance the party has to win.

[Cochise]

Honestly, I'm not crazy about his chances at all (it would be really nice if the Dems nominate Hillary, oh please oh please), but the GOP field sucks so badly, I believe McCain is the best chance the party has to win.

I don't know how much of a win it would be, he doesn't want to surrender at least, but domestically... he's Republican In Name Only.

I have a tough decision to make, because I swore I'd never vote for anyone who had a hand in the amnesty bill.

[alnorth]

but domestically... he's Republican In Name Only.

Thats probably one of the biggest myths of the campaign. He is a far cry from Chafee, who really was a true Liberal. He doesnt receive huge marks from the conservative rating organizations, but they typically score him about a 60% conservative (ie more conservative than 60% of the Senate). If he were a democrat, he would be the most conservative democrat in the Senate. His strongest marks actually come from the budget more often than foreign policy.

People bashed him for not being enthusiastic about tax cuts a few years back, but they ignore the fact that he's always been pretty big on cutting frivolous spending for his entire career. Over the last couple decades he's made himself famous for being one of the biggest critics of pork spending. I've frankly become disgusted with the GOP the last few years, the tax cuts are fine if you are also going to cut spending, but if we are going to massively grow the government, then to hell with tax cuts, get the budget under control first. A balanced budget and perhaps even thinking about paying down the debt should be the main priority well above tax cuts.

As for illegal immigration, he's merely a realist, and I basically agree with almost everything he's had to say about it. A solution similar to what he proposed is probably the best way because we can not simply kick the illegals out of the country. If we strictly enforced the laws and barred employers from hiring them to do the work Americans wont do for a wage that they can reasonably pay for unskilled labor, then our economy is screwed.

[Cochise]

What three things is he best known for?

McCain Feingold.
The McCain/Kennedy amnesty bill.
The gang of 14.

All of which, basically, were middle fingers to conservatives.

I respect the guy, I think he's an honest man and all that. But to call him conservative does not meet any definition I can apply to the word.

[Taco John]

Giving amnesty to illegal aliens, even McCain-style amnesty where you don't call it amnesty, will just lead to more illegal aliens.

[Cochise]

...we can not simply kick the illegals out of the country.

I don't see anyone suggesting that.

If we strictly enforced the laws and barred employers from hiring them to do the work

That's not anything like what McCain/Kennedy proposed.


...Americans wont do for a wage that they can reasonably pay for unskilled labor, then our economy is screwed.

If you remove the illegals, employers will have no choice than to employ Americans at a wage at which Americans will work. Otherwise, the line is shut down and they don't turn a profit.

[alnorth]

What three things is he best known for?

McCain Feingold.
The McCain/Kennedy amnesty bill.
The gang of 14.

All of which, basically, were middle fingers to conservatives.

I respect the guy, I think he's an honest man and all that. But to call him conservative does not meet any definition I can apply to the word.

There are more than 3 issues, and those 3 issues are MASSIVELY dwarfed by the economy and the budget.

Its not a middle finger more than it is a guy who typically leans conservative on most issues refusing to obediantly toe the party line on those few issues he doesnt agree with.

Rush Limbaugh doesnt care about all the times you agree with the conservative position, thats basically just "doing your job". The few disagreements get spotlighted out of proportion.

If a theoretical candidate were conservative on every other issue but those 3 (which doesnt necessarily describe McCain either), that would score a very strong conservative by any objective measurement. Disagreeing with you or me on a few "flavor of the month" issues that will be out of mind in a few years doesnt make anyone Liberal in the face of thousands of votes to the contrary.

[alnorth]

If you remove the illegals, employers will have no choice than to employ Americans at a wage at which Americans will work. Otherwise, the line is shut down and they don't turn a profit.

Of course they have a choice. They can choose to go out of business, hire no one at all, and do something where they wont be killed by competitors not subject to our rules. For many products there is a hard unbreakable limit to what people will be willing to spend before seeking alternatives. Americans will not pay a few extra dollars for lettuce and tomatoes, unless of course you want to throw away the conservative principles of free trade and capitalist competition.

For those industries not able to move (hotels), the consumers will refuse to pay the necessary price increases. They will spend less, take fewer vacations, etc.

[RJ]

No way I'd ever vote for someone born in the Panama Canal Zone.

[Cochise]

Of course they have a choice. They can choose to go out of business, hire no one at all, and do something where they wont be killed by competitors not subject to our rules. For many products there is a hard unbreakable limit to what people will be willing to spend before seeking alternatives. Americans will not pay a few extra dollars for lettuce and tomatoes, unless of course you want to throw away the conservative principles of free trade and capitalist competition.

For those industries not able to move (hotels), the consumers will refuse to pay the necessary price increases. They will spend less, take fewer vacations, etc.

I think your assumption is flawed that people will not pay a penny more for anything. Will there be grumbling, sure. But the registers will keep ringing, with the domestically produced goods or with imported alternatives from countries where those industries are naturally profitable. Certainly there would be a period of change where prices go up and people are irritated. But I reject summarily the idea that hotel chains are just going to shutter the enterprise because they have to pay someone minimum wage to fold towels.

And anyway, do I care if a company that bases its business model on illegal immigrant labor goes out of business? No. Play by the rules or burn. I'll pay another quarter for my chicken breasts not to have 30 or 40 or 50 million people (however many there would be by the end of a McCain administration)sucking the resources of law-abiding taxpayers through government handouts.

[Cochise]

Great comment from Dick Morris just now.

"It wasn't that McCain converted conservatives, it was that Romney ran out of them."

[alnorth]

Well, lets ignore the economics for a moment. #1) We could not deport the illegal immigrants even if we tried. The logistics of such an undertaking would be hideously costly, mind-boggling, and likely ineffective anyway #2) More importantly, at a net cost they are not harming us at all.

For every whine about health care spending, it is more than made up for by the taxes they do pay, especially the huge tax on social security for a benefit they will never collect. Despite protests to the contrary from the left, our economy is not in bad shape, and at about 5% unemployment, we are effectively fully employed. Everyone who wants a job has one.

[Taco John]

I guess McCain Republicans exist... I'm not sure what the point is. Why not just support Lieberman?

[a1na2]

Honestly, I'm not crazy about his chances at all (it would be really nice if the Dems nominate Hillary, oh please oh please), but the GOP field sucks so badly, I believe McCain is the best chance the party has to win.

That puts them on par with the dems.

[Cochise]

Well, lets ignore the economics for a moment. #1) We could not deport the illegal immigrants even if we tried. The logistics of such an undertaking would be hideously costly, mind-boggling, and likely ineffective anyway

I have not heard any politician say we should deport them. That's a caricature of the position that means nothing.

[alnorth]

I guess McCain Republicans exist... I'm not sure what the point is. Why not just support Lieberman?

Lieberman is in favor of huge entitlements and would never agree to make significant cuts in the budget, and thats just for starters.

Those of you who believe that McCain is Liberal or RINO and not conservative at all on many issues were probably told to think that way. Either getting your marching orders from Limbaugh, or just skimming through headlines and sound bites. If you systematically evaluate their voting records objectively on all important issues, you will see a lot of conservative positions. A democrat daring to vote McCain's record would be mocked and perhaps have a party-funded primary challenger. Those conservative votes are apparently just "doing your job" as a republican though, you get no extra brownie points for being conservative on a huge array of issues. The spotlight focused on only those few high-profile differences.

[alnorth]

I have not heard any politician say we should deport them. That's a caricature of the position that means nothing.

I'm not talking about a specific politician running for president, but we both know a lot of conservative entertainers who are pandering to the masses demanding this very thing are using this issue against McCain. The other republican candidates side-step it by criticising the bill in vague simplistic populist terms while carefully avoiding any mention that they would also not be in favor of deportation.

[Taco John]

Those of you who believe that McCain is Liberal or RINO and not conservative at all on many issues were probably told to think that way.

As far as I'm concerned, you said it yourself. He scored only a 60% rating on the conservative scale. 50% would have put him directly dead center. That's not conservative. That's moderate if anything. The issues he's moderate on put him at drastic odds with actual conservativism.

[alnorth]

As far as I'm concerned, you said it yourself. He scored only a 60% rating on the conservative scale. 50% would have put him directly dead center. That's not conservative. That's moderate if anything. The issues he's moderate on put him at drastic odds with actual conservativism.

Those issues he gets dinged on are generally silly and almost irrelevant. For the issues that actually matter worth a damn he's pretty solid. Tax cuts are a luxery afforded by a government that spends responsibly. To those who say "security first, then immigration reform", I respond with "balance the damned budget first, then tax cuts". His priorities are pretty well set and on-target.

On a side note I've always seen McCain-Feingold as bad for the Democrats more than anything, and was confused why they would support such a thing from a strategic point of view. GOP core supporters are far more apt to donate, the left is in more need of extra "help" than the right.

[Cochise]

I'm not talking about a specific politician running for president, but we both know a lot of conservative entertainers who are pandering to the masses demanding this very thing are using this issue against McCain. The other republican candidates side-step it by criticising the bill in vague simplistic populist terms while carefully avoiding any mention that they would also not be in favor of deportation.

I am saying it's dishonest to portray the issue as either your solution is deportation or this, from Heritage, about the amnesty bill:


While provisions of the Senate bill would delay illegal immigrants' access to welfare for several years, over time, nearly all amnesty recipients would be offered legal permanent residence and access to more than 60 federal means-tested welfare programs. Specifically, Z visa holders would immediately be given Social Security numbers and would begin earning entitlement to Social Security and Medicare (which are not means-tested welfare programs). Some ten to thirteen years after enactment, amnesty recipients would begin to gain access to a wide variety of means-tested welfare programs, such as Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, public housing, and Food Stamps.[7] Children born to illegal and legal immigrants in the U.S. have immediate, lifetime access to all welfare programs.

The initial limitation on the receipt of means-tested welfare will have only a small effect on governmental costs. Adult welfare comprises only a small part of the benefits received by immigrant families. Moreover, the average adult amnesty recipient can be expected to live more than 50 years after receiving his Z visa. While his eligibility for means-tested welfare would be constrained for the first 10 to 15 years, each amnesty recipient would be fully eligible for welfare during the last 30 to 40 years of his life. Use of welfare during these years will be heavy.


You know, not even in the UK can you work if you are a low skill immigrant, as I understand. They have a point scoring system by which they deny you a work permit unless you can gather enough qualifiers like education or speaking the language or whatever. Professional footballers are even denied work permits sometimes and they are certainly highly skilled and high earners. Even in western europe where socialism is in full bloom, they don't permit this.

[a1na2]

If McCain was born on a U.S. Military installation he was actually born in the United States, by definition. The fact that the installation was on foreign ground has no relevance. BUT, as has been pointed out his parents are both Americans so he is as well.

[alnorth]

Here's another tidbit.

McCain was one of only 9 Senate Republicans to vote against Bush's Medicare prescription drug benefit. One of NINE with the guts to actually make the politically unpopular move of standing for conservative restraint in entitlement spending.

I heard a lot of bitching and crying about this issue, many Republicans who say that they were disappointed with Bush and didnt think he was conservative, if they didnt point at immigration, they pointed to this. Many Republicans that the establishment would arbitrarily annoint as more conservative than McCain cowardly voted in favor of a benefit we could not afford. Do they give McCain any credit for being the "maverick" and bucking the party line when the party decides it is politically better to throw away principles? Does Limbaugh praise him for this stand? Hell no.

[alnorth]

You know, not even in the UK can you work if you are a low skill immigrant, as I understand. They have a point scoring system by which they deny you a work permit unless you can gather enough qualifiers like education or speaking the language or whatever. Professional footballers are even denied work permits sometimes and they are certainly highly skilled and high earners. Even in western europe where socialism is in full bloom, they don't permit this.

The key difference would likely be that they grant the visas for workers they need, and they do not exactly have the vast need for commercial (not family) agricultural labor we have. We dont do that because it would be unpopular.

Instead, we say what the voters want to hear, wink at employers, and let them do whats necessary. This hypocracy needs to stop, the people need to be truthfully told what they may not like, and the consequences of barring them from working need to be clearly spelled out.

[patteeu]

Lieberman is in favor of huge entitlements and would never agree to make significant cuts in the budget, and thats just for starters.

Those of you who believe that McCain is Liberal or RINO and not conservative at all on many issues were probably told to think that way. Either getting your marching orders from Limbaugh, or just skimming through headlines and sound bites. If you systematically evaluate their voting records objectively on all important issues, you will see a lot of conservative positions. A democrat daring to vote McCain's record would be mocked and perhaps have a party-funded primary challenger. Those conservative votes are apparently just "doing your job" as a republican though, you get no extra brownie points for being conservative on a huge array of issues. The spotlight focused on only those few high-profile differences.

My two big problems with McCain are that (1) he's never been a team player and appears more interested in John McCain than in party politics and, more importantly, (2) I don't trust him to appoint good judges based on his authorship of McCain-Feingold and his refusal to play hardball with the democrats in order to get conservative judges a vote. I think he'll be looking to make a McCain legacy out of compromise on all fronts (except possibly spending and foreign affairs which he is pretty good on) with democrats. He'll look for middle of the road judges to nominate to the SCOTUS which inevitably means that the liberal, living consitution advocates win. He won't be interested in conservative solutions to SS or other entitlements because he'll prefer to make a grand compromise with Ted Kennedy. Similarly, he'll abandon supply side concepts like low taxation on investment income in favor of making a budget deal with democrats like the one GWB's father made.

I hope I'm wrong about this and there's definitely enough that McCain has to offer to cause me to vote for him over Obama or Hillary, but it will be an unenthusiastic vote.

[Mr. Kotter]

...Will it become a problem for him?


This is an interesting situation, as he was born outside of the US. I wonder if this issue will ever get raised.

Jus Soli AND Jus Sanguinas are, BOTH, acceptable standards for...."natural born" citizenship qualifications, Constitutionally listed in Article II.

Period.

End of discussion. :rolleyes:

Unless you are a Paulite idiot. :doh!:

[Mr. Kotter]

What three things is he best known for?

McCain Feingold.
The McCain/Kennedy amnesty bill.
The gang of 14.

All of which, basically, were middle fingers to ideologically extreme right wing conservatives.

I respect the guy, I think he's an honest man and all that. But to call him conservative does not meet any definition I can apply to the word.

FYP

;)

[Cochise]

I don't even want to think about McCain and the supreme court.. ugh... I'm having a Maalox moment...

[Cochise]

FYP

;)

With all due respect.. I don't think your perspective on conservatism has the requisite gravitas

[Mr. Kotter]

I don't even want to think about McCain and the supreme court.. ugh... I'm having a Maalox moment...

Regarding the SC, he'd be much better than either Hillary or Barak.

Beggars can't be choosers.... ;)

[Mr. Kotter]

With all due respect.. I don't think your perspective on conservatism has the requisite gravitas

And that attitude is why you and patty will be choosing between McCain and Hillary come November.....

unless you want to join TJ in the evil alliance on the true "dark side."

:p

[Cochise]

And that attitude is why you and patty will be choosing between McCain and Hillary come November.....

unless you want to join TJ in the evil alliance on the true "dark side."

:p

My attitude towards McCain didn't have any effect on the primary states that have voted so far.

I'm going to refuse for now to think about whether I'd rather choose McCain, Paul, or the goat behind door number 3.

[alnorth]

(1) he's never been a team player and appears more interested in John McCain than in party politics

Being a "team player" is overrated, I want to know what the individual believes in, and trust they will stick with it when the party loses their mind.

Again, I dont want to be a broken record, but when he also decides not to be a team player when the team demands a vote in favor of a huge drug entitlement program, all we hear from the right is silence (aside from outrage at Bush).

If McCain was all about McCain, and just voting with what is popular, voting with the mob for a popular entitlement would have been a pretty easy decision, but it would have made a lie out of his career fight against irresponsible spending.

The GOP used to believe deeply in a balanced budget, even going so far as proposing balanced budget amendments and passing a line-item veto, but now spending within our means just doesnt seem to be important or as conservative as other more trivial issues.

[Mr. Kotter]

Being a "team player" is overrated, I want to know what the individual believes in, and trust they will stick with it when the party loses their mind.

Again, I dont want to be a broken record, but when he also decides not to be a team player when the team demands a vote in favor of a huge drug entitlement program, all we hear from the right is silence (aside from outrage at Bush).

If McCain was all about McCain, and just voting with what is popular, voting with the mob for a popular entitlement would have been a pretty easy decision, but it would have made a lie out of his career fight against irresponsible spending.

The GOP used to believe deeply in a balanced budget, even going so far as proposing balanced budget amendments and passing a line-item veto, but now spending within our means just doesnt seem to be important or as conservative as other more trivial issues.

Thanks al, for succinctly pointing out the triviality that ideologues have been reduced to...in order to try to derail Senator McCain.

:clap:

Rudy's endorsement tomorrow, along with Fred's....perhaps, will help turn "Super Tuesday" into Romney's "last stand."

Of course, I could be wrong; especially if Fred drags his feet....:hmmm:

[Iowanian]

He may have been born in a backpack on the panama canal, but he sure beat ronpaul's ass.

[Mr. Kotter]

He may have been born in a backpack on the panama canal, but he sure beat ronpaul's ass.

What was Ron's total tonight??? 3%....with all the "drop-outs" (Fred, included....heh)....he STILL managed only 3%.....heh.

LMAO

[Cochise]

What was Ron's total tonight??? 3%....with all the "drop-outs" (Fred, included....heh)....he STILL managed only 3%.....heh.

LMAO

Paul was never going to get any traction there if I'm right in saying that you have to be registered as a Republican to vote in Florida's Republican primary, I think that is true.

[Iowanian]

What was Ron's total tonight??? 3%....with all the "drop-outs" (Fred, included....heh)....he STILL managed only 3%.....heh.

LMAO


ronpaul now knows some of the feeling McCain went through when Ho Chi Min was shoving bamboo shards up his dickhole.


I'm sure ronpaul is just saving up his load for the REAL moneyshot. Ronpaul is PeterNorth.

[alnorth]

Ugh, I'm now beginning to realize that I could be in danger of being a "candidate X" fanboy like Taco or recxjake. Of the remaining viable candidates I am supporting McCain, but he is not perfect. He's actually a pretty deeply flawed candidate on many issues.

My most serious disagreement with McCain is how he handled the judicial nomination fiasco a couple years ago. To hell with Senate decorum and tradition, its a tradition based on paper that could easily be dispelled by the left if the roles are reversed someday, all it takes, and all it should take is a simple majority to force a vote on nominations. I know he also said that he didnt agree with the filibusters, but enabling the filibuster to continue is not much better than voting for it.

Also although from a pure strategic point of view I applaud McCain-Feingold (helps the GOP, hurts the left), philosophically I disagree with it and would have voted against it. I am troubled that McCain decided there was a need to vote for this unconstitutional legislation because of a concern about money becoming too powerful in campaigns. Due to this, I am not convinced that his appointments will be all that great.

I do believe the budget and spending is our most important issue though, and of those in the field, McCain has no peer on this issue.

[Donger]

I wonder if this issue will ever get raised.

Why would it be raised in the first place?

[Mr. Kotter]

Why would it be raised in the first place?

For TJ it is, one of two things here:

(A) Ignorance (of Article II of the Constitution)
(B) Politically motivate demagoguery, intended to minimize (A)
(C) both of the above
(D) none of the above

The answer is (C).

Thanks for playing. :thumb: ;)

[alnorth]

TJ is, one of two things here:

(A) Ignorance (of Article II of the Constitution)
(B) Politically motivate demagoguery, intended to minimize (A)
(C) both of the above
(D) none of the above

The answer is (C).

Thanks for playing. :thumb: ;)

To be fair, it would have been a very interesting conversation of Ahhnold was running. I think the question was fine, lots of people do think that you have to be born here to be a natural-born citizen.

[Cochise]

For TJ it is, one of two things here:

(A) Ignorance (of Article II of the Constitution)
(B) Politically motivate demagoguery, intended to minimize (A)
(C) both of the above
(D) none of the above

The answer is (C).

Thanks for playing. :thumb: ;)

I think he might have seen Mel Martinez on TV say something that indicated he doesn't understand how it works either and extrapolated it to McCain.

[Jenson71]

I thought the gang of 14 was a good thing.

[Mr. Kotter]

I thought the gang of 14 was a good thing.

TJ has a "short" memory of such things.

In fairness, he was distracted by important breaking "news" like the 9/11 Conspiracies from Mark Cuban/MoveOn.Org types....and the rise of the Republican Nominee for President, Sir Mr. Clown Paul.

:thumb:

An understandable over-sight, to be sure; please, allow us to move on to moderate and independent endorsements of Ron Paul's Presidential bid....

Please, hold your applause until ALL have been announced. Er, eh.....there is no one, really, to speak of...you say????

Sorry then, well...proceed. "Bush SUCKS!!!" Repeated loudly, and at least three times. That will show them, I tell you!!!

Watch!!!
;)

[patteeu]

And that attitude is why you and patty will be choosing between McCain and Hillary come November.....

unless you want to join TJ in the evil alliance on the true "dark side."

:p

Yeah, like having more respect for your rudderless waffling was going to get us a choice between a pair of dream candidates. LOL

[a1na2]

Yeah, like having more respect for your rudderless waffling was going to get us a choice between a pair of dream candidates. LOL

Kotter might have a little waffling going on, but at least we can respect him. TJ on the other hand lost all respect when the jumped on the 9/11 Conspiracy Theory like most men would jump on Halle Berry.

[patteeu]

Being a "team player" is overrated, I want to know what the individual believes in, and trust they will stick with it when the party loses their mind.

Again, I dont want to be a broken record, but when he also decides not to be a team player when the team demands a vote in favor of a huge drug entitlement program, all we hear from the right is silence (aside from outrage at Bush).

If McCain was all about McCain, and just voting with what is popular, voting with the mob for a popular entitlement would have been a pretty easy decision, but it would have made a lie out of his career fight against irresponsible spending.

The GOP used to believe deeply in a balanced budget, even going so far as proposing balanced budget amendments and passing a line-item veto, but now spending within our means just doesnt seem to be important or as conservative as other more trivial issues.

Look, I think it's great that McCain opposed the prescription drug bill, but if he's elected, he's going to have his own versions of that type of deviation from standard conservatism that will be equally objectionable. If he chooses SCOTUS justices on the basis of whether or not they will let his campaign finance reform stand, he'll be worse than Bush in terms of his deviations, IMO. I really don't think that pointing out Bush's wayward initiatives is a good way to relieve concerns over McCain's.

There's a difference between the way Rudy Giuliani stuck to his non-conservative beliefs but found a way to reconcile them with the concerns of the voters he was courting (team player) and the way McCain seemingly takes self-righteous glee in opposing conservatives at various times but then downplays those events or pretends they never existed when it comes time to face the voters. I don't think a McCain election is the worst thing that could happen to conservatives at all. I just think he's done enough to earn plenty of distrust from us.

[patteeu]

Ugh, I'm now beginning to realize that I could be in danger of being a "candidate X" fanboy like Taco or recxjake. Of the remaining viable candidates I am supporting McCain, but he is not perfect. He's actually a pretty deeply flawed candidate on many issues.

My most serious disagreement with McCain is how he handled the judicial nomination fiasco a couple years ago. To hell with Senate decorum and tradition, its a tradition based on paper that could easily be dispelled by the left if the roles are reversed someday, all it takes, and all it should take is a simple majority to force a vote on nominations. I know he also said that he didnt agree with the filibusters, but enabling the filibuster to continue is not much better than voting for it.

Also although from a pure strategic point of view I applaud McCain-Feingold (helps the GOP, hurts the left), philosophically I disagree with it and would have voted against it. I am troubled that McCain decided there was a need to vote for this unconstitutional legislation because of a concern about money becoming too powerful in campaigns. Due to this, I am not convinced that his appointments will be all that great.

I do believe the budget and spending is our most important issue though, and of those in the field, McCain has no peer on this issue.

That seems like a fair assessment. I'm personally more concerned with court appointments than budget and spending (although budget and spending are very important) though. SCOTUS appointments are either going to finally swing the high court to the right for the first time in decades or they are going to secure the left wing of the court and ensure at least a split for the next generation.

[BucEyedPea]

If the ME scene weren't going on, I could vote for McCainbased on the fiscal points AlNorth brought up. I like the idea of bucking the team if on the right thing. I just wish he' supported ending BR citizenship on immigration. The illegals are also contributing to rising HC costs as it lures them.

However, McCain scares the b'jeezus out of me regarding his most recent statements saying to get ready for "more wars" and it being okay to remain in Iraq for a Hundred Years. He's an intemperate man and I don't think an intemperate person is right for our current situation because he'll escalate things which by his own words he is prepared to do. This couple with a Rudy's endorsement, means the most hawkish FP advisors ( who were with Rudy) will be fellow travelers. Men like Podhoretz. Heck! McCain already had Kagan for a FP advisor.

Nope. I'd be more likely to consider a Dem to keep McCain out. That or 3P, even without Paul, to hand it to the Dems so long as I didn't have to endorse massive govt.

[tiptap]

As someone who received his full citizenship from a Constitutional Amendment, the 23rd, the question of citizenship for people born in any territory peaks an interest. But with both parents and a birth in a US territory then citizenship and legality of running for the President isn't an issue. No person born in a territory that then became a state would have had standing to be President before. I feel for BOTH Republican leading candidates being born south of the Rio Grande