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StLouisBob
08-05-2001, 08:14 AM
As I understand things a lot of people in KC want to build a light rail system and a downtown ball park. Even though I am not a fan of the Royals or the Chiefs I must admit that they have a great place to play. I have been to several Royals games and love the "No traffic" Easy parking and the fact that I usually stay at the Drury Inn right acros from the stadium. WIth that said. Of cours parking and traffic my be worse if people acually went to a Royals game.

You don't want a light rail system. KC much like St. Louis is becoming more of a city of suburbs. People are leaveing St Louis at a record pace and I am sure people are leaving KC too. People don't want there kids going to school with ghetto thugs so they get the hell out as soon as they can afford it. All LIGHT RAIL does is make it easier for the criminal thugs of downtown to come to the suburbs rob and rape and then get back on a train back to there home. THis is happening in St Louis at an alarming rate but since the press is liberal and they want to be like Europe where everyone rides a train and no one owns a vehicle, they never report how the thief got to Chesterfield when he lives in N St. Louis. Light Rail making it easier in St Louis for the thugs to find your home.

Downtown stadium. Yes its nice in a way, but it also sucks in a way. #1 traffic is horrible it funnels in on I-70, I-44 and I-40. Parking is easy in St Lou if you park in a building (wich I almost always do if its a night game) WHERE to Park. IF in St. Louis you park under a bridge for about 10 bucks you get to wak to Busch Stadium on the way there you have to walk over, around all the Ghetto THugs begging for money, and then when its dark you must worry about them robbing your arse on the way to your vehicle. St Louis PD put most of its cops in and around the Stadium so this won't happen. I wonder what that cost the city. Do you really want a stadium where you must put barb wire around to keep all the thugs from stealing and sleeping in the stadium.

Keep what you got. ALL downtowns in the USA are trying to revitalize their downtowns, and it will never work to many thugs who dont work and pay no taxes thats why the schools suck.

Just some advise from a guy who knows all about light rail and downtown stadiums.

morphius
08-05-2001, 08:43 AM
ODG! StL Bob and I agree...

Morphius
must seek shelter

VAChief
08-05-2001, 02:58 PM
Bob...This "alleged" increase in robbing and raping by "ghetto thugs" is occurring because light rail was installed in St. Louis? Is this occuring on the train itself or are these alleged thugs getting off and walking around the burbs causing havoc? It seems a bit ludicrous to me that the media would actually keep this down. Most violent activity occurring in suburbia is considered big news...If this is truly happening where are the police during these escapades...I assume that the victims are not also in on the media conspiracy...wouldn't the police step up patrols or increase there presence at the jumping off stations?

KC may not need light rail (personally I'm not sure it would succeed due to the geography of the city...so spread out), but I don't think the threat of ghetto thugs invading Leawood, Prairie Village, Blue Springs, etc. should ever be considered a "real" mitigating factor in the decision...pro or con (no pun intended).

dtebbe
08-05-2001, 04:38 PM
I agree about crime following "light rail". Here in GA any citizen can apply and be granted a concealed carry permit as long as your background check comes out clean. Of coarse when you fly you can't carry. The thugs here in Atlanta have figured this out, so they have been targeting victims at the airport, getting on the train and following them to the northern suburbs, robbing and sometimes killing them, knowing they are not armed. I live in the southern suburbs of Atalnta and our communitiy is fighting the rail coming to our area, because it is a FACT that crime comes with the train.

On a sidenote a few years back carjackings had skyrocketed in the Atlanta metro area. The GA general assy. eased the law on firearms in vehicles, allowing any resident to have a loaded handgun in thier glovebox or console. In the year that followed two carjackers were shot while trying to jack a ride, and the news media covered it heavy. Since then from what I understand carjackings are down like 75%.

DT
"An armed society is a polite society"

Logical
08-05-2001, 05:38 PM
St. Louis Bob

That is the most common sense I have ever heard you utter. It is perfectly logical and full of sound reasoning. I am sending props your way, congratulations I can even live with the slight digs.

Great piece, well thought out and well reasoned.

Cannibal
08-05-2001, 10:14 PM
Sounds like a whole lotta paranoid racist bullsh!t to me...

Go join a fuggin militia in Montana you sheep fugger!

Frazod
08-05-2001, 10:55 PM
Cannibal, the day one of Bob's ghetto thugs turns you into a statistic, you might feel differently.

I've actually heard the same thing from a couple of other people in the St. Louis area. While I think the suburban train is inevitable, and necessary, the cops in previously low-crime areas that are opened up to the risks presented by this need to stop eating doughnuts and writing parking tickets and get serious about their jobs. Eventually, this will happen. Of course, no one wants to become the next statistic waiting for the police to actually learn how to serve and protect. I feel for them.

I personally ride a commuter train to work in Chicago every day and I love it. Sure beats the 80 mile round trip I'd have otherwise. We don't have alot of crime in Naperville (certainly nothing like I'd become accustomed to in Chicago). I get the impression that the cops here don't f#ck around with troublemakers. More power to 'em.

As for the downtown stadium, I personally like the Chiefs and Royals right where they are. My problems with the Royals have absolutely nothing to do with their location. I feel safe when I go to the Truman Sports Complex. If you'd like to NOT feel safe at a ball game, try going to Comiskey Park in Chicago. Even when they were winning last year, attendance sucked. BECAUSE THE BALL PARK'S IN THE MIDDLE OF A FRIGGIN DMZ! Right across the expressway from the Robert Taylor Homes (easy sniper distance), a horrid, crime-ridden housing project, and adjoining Bridgeport, an area of Chicago populated in large part by WHITE ghetto thugs. A couple of years ago a white reporter who stayed in the area after a game got his a$$ kicked after a White Sox game by a bunch of Bridgeport white guys, for no other reason than he, according to them, didn't belong in their neighborhood. When I go to a Sox game, I get there quickly, go right to the park, and leave the area IMMEDIATELY afterwards. So does everyone else. Unlike the Wrigleyville area, the area around Comiskey offers NOTHING but grief and danger to the fans. Jerry Reinsdorf cries about poor attendance, and tries to claim that because of it the White Sox are a "small market team." What a moron. If he hadn't built his new stadium right in the middle of hell, smack in the middle of the Gangsta Disciples and the Deliverance goons from Bridgeport, he might be able to get some more people to regularly attend games.

You don't want problems like this going to sporting events in KC. When I go to a game for recreation, I don't feel like pioneering in a friggin war zone. Going to a damned baseball game isn't worth risking my life.

Mark M
08-06-2001, 07:42 AM
You know, Bob, I was going to rip a new one yesterday when I first read this, but my computer died on me.

After thinking about it and talking with friends in Chicago and St. Louis, I think you might be right. :eek: Crime does go up. However, to classify all inner city people as gangsta thugs is just plain wrong. Will people from the cities go the burbs? Of course. But to deny it just for that reason is elitist.

The problem I have with light rail is not the idea (something needs to be done) but this particular plan. Something will need to be done eventually.

And there are many, many things that need to be done with downtown before a stadium is pur there. But the fact remains that the Royals need more revenue and when the lease is up in 2015, the stadium will be almost 50 years old. Maybe by then downtown will be ready for a new stadium by having the infrastructure, security and attractions that will not only keep people downtown, but do it safely. It can happen, you know.

MM
~~Likes the idea of rail, just not the current plan.

Baby Lee
08-06-2001, 08:22 AM
So St.L.Bob - your basic premise is that 'suburban' america worked hard to distance themselves from 'urban' [if you know what I mean] america, and you are horrified by anything that reconnnects the pristine suburbia with the ghetto wasteland.
Why stop with nixing light rail? Why not have a toll on all roads leading into 'nice' neighborhoods? I'm sure the police could work up some nice 'profiles' of undesireables. But then, what if they nab your cleaning lady? Who'll do the cleaning?

Dude, I go to the Cards often. And its usually in a nice car [my '01 Grand Prix, my buddy's '00 Mustang, or my other buddy's ''00 540], we usually get there at the last minute, so we have to park on the other side of the bridge. Parking is $5 and the walk is pleasant [especially the beer girls at the bars along the way].

StLouisBob
08-06-2001, 10:27 AM
I know that no one will beleive me on this, but I swear that if I am lying may the Rams go 0-16. A co-worker was telling me that his in-law cousins from San Diego CA were at the Gambling boats when they left on the Metro Link to go back to there Hotel they were attaced by 4 black men. They stated that 7 black men surrounded them and that they were all toghether but only four, which were the youngest four attacked them. THe St. Louis Police informed the people that is sounded like a gang initiation thing.

Another thing: Race has nothing to do with people living in the inner-city as soon as a minority makes he he or she gets the hell out too.

StLouisBob
08-06-2001, 10:30 AM
JC Johnny thats not a bad idea. I noticed that you did not say that I was untruthfull, just tried to call me a racists.

JC why don't the people of St. Charles want the metro link.. Could it be they know the truth, or are the just racists too.

Baby Lee
08-06-2001, 10:43 AM
Hey, one of my best friends in H.S was seriously beat up in the Crown Center parking garage by a couple of black guys. Last time I looked, the Crown Center Garage was a little more upscale than the riverfront [or, were they gambling on the East Side of the river? Both have boats, both have metro stations.] You can't let those experiences jaundice your view of the next individual to come along.

I lived for 6 years on the Loop. U-City is a great example of mixed incomes and mixed races living together in relative harmony. The day I moved in, one of your 'undesirables' pestered us to 'hook him up.' Turned out he wanted to help out and get paid for that service. He worked like a mo-fo and we got my stuff into the apartment in record time. Then I gave him like $40 and we sat down to burgers and fries. Yes, there was crime on the Loop, and yes there some visual oddities on walking the sidewalks, but in the time I was there I watched it thrive [with the expanded Blueberry Hill, the renovated Tivoli, a million other awesome resuarants and the new concert hall], and never once did I get anything stolen. Not from my car, not from my house, not from me.

Baby Lee
08-06-2001, 10:44 AM
I noticed that you did not say that I was untruthfull, just tried to call me a racists.

I notice that you don't deny being racist, you just call it 'the truth.'

StLouisBob
08-06-2001, 11:00 AM
JC I do not feel that I am a racists. I would never deny anyone anything based upon thier race. However I live in the real world and know what is real and what is not. I have two children and would never subject them to anything in the ghetto. I have several neighbors who are a different race then myself , black, orietal, and a coupel I have no idea nor do I care they are good folk. Ask them they will tell you the same thing I am. Its all about being the type of person who puts his family first, and does not deny the truth.

Baby Lee
08-06-2001, 11:14 AM
Let me get this straight. You would never deny anyone anything based upon thier race. But you oppose a train line linking the places where one race lives and where another race lives because you don't want people from one area to have easy access to the other area. And you bemoan the fact that Card's stadium is situated where you have to walk by "ghetto thugs begging for money" [and, evidently, evervigilant for the chance to rob and rape you].

And if you don't think the urban/suburban issue is not a black/white issue in St. Louis, then you are NOT, that is NOT, "living in the real world."

StLouisBob
08-06-2001, 11:30 AM
JC Johnny #1 whats a guy from St Louis doing rooting for the Chiefs. Are you from KC or just confused.

#2You make a good point. All I am trying to say is that Metro link provides a good way for the "thugs" to get to my home rob steal and rape and then leave agian. I guess I want to seperate myself from the thugs, white or black. Thats why I left the city, and why thousands of other have too. Do you deny that the Metro Link provides a way for the thugs to reach the subs. I guess that it has been made into a black and white issue. In your opinion why is it that the inner city is so poor? Is it my fault. Is it your fault? Is it societys fault?

Why doesnt St Charles want the MEtro? In your opinion.

Clint in Wichita
08-06-2001, 11:31 AM
Your friends that got "beat up by black guys" probably deserved it.

Rednecks are the scourge of this country, not minorities.

StLouisBob
08-06-2001, 11:45 AM
Thats what I love to hear. A guy from Wichita calling people from San Diego CA rednecks. Actually what my co-worker was saying is that they are left wing liberals who stated that they understand now why people want to carry guns.

Baby Lee
08-06-2001, 11:51 AM
1. Clint - my friend did not deserve to get beat up. He was just a H.S.er returning to his car. That said, he got beat up by a couple of black guys, individuals, not an entire race.

2. Grew up in KC, moved to St.L. to go to Wash.U law. BTW, anyone who doesn't root for the Chiefs, no matter the geography, is a little confused. :)

3. Metro may give a way to get to the suburbs, whatever the purpose. But so does a bus, a car, a bicycle, a pair of feet, etc. Its not like the Metro lets people carry purloined big screen TVs and Stereos on. I think you're inflating the mindset of those who'd say "Thank God for Metrolink. Now I can go to the 'burbs rape a soccer mom, and steal something that'll fit in my pocket. Then whoosh, I'm back to ghetto heaven."

4. Don't get me started on why things are the way they are in St.L. But one quick case in point is the disparity between the I-70 corridor improvements of a few years ago [acres and acres of sterile concrete with no pedestrain or bike paths], and the proposed 40/64 improvements [Parisian style walls and lights, extensive environmental impact research, nice wide paths and even pedestrian overpasses].

redbrian
08-06-2001, 11:59 AM
St. Louis bob is spouting a whole bunch of rot. His friend of a friend of the sister of a cousin is just one of the many urban legends going around. Another version is a car flashing its lights at you, you return the signal and the gang members run you off the road and kill you.
The metro link does not transfer criminals from the city to the suburbs. For one thing the Missouri section does not have any stops in the burbs unless you include Lambert field.
I have a house in the city of St. Louis (dogtown area) and find the Metro to be a great means of transportation. For just $2.70 I can go from the bus stop (two blocks from my house) at Hampton to the Forest Park Metro stop and from there to Lambert (thatís a round trip price).
Bob sounds like one of the many folks in the county who donít leave their burb and donít have a clue about the outside world.

Mi_chief_fan
08-06-2001, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by StLouisBob
JC Johnny #1 whats a guy from St Louis doing rooting for the Chiefs. Are you from KC or just confused.



I'm also a Chiefs and Cards fan, an have been to several games in St.Louis, and have never had anything happen to me. Parking absolutely sux, but i've never felt threatened.

Baby Lee
08-06-2001, 12:05 PM
redbrain - Bob is not talking about the present. He's talking about what would 'surely' happen if the Metro went to the 'burbs. Guess all those suburbanites in Belleville on the Illinois side are just idots, primed for the rapin' and the pillagin'. Course they've probably had their brains addled by sharing Route 3 with East St. Louis, Caseyville, et al. :) :)

Bob Dole
08-06-2001, 12:08 PM
StLouisBobontheKnob is absolutely correct.

Last time Bob Dole was in Dallas and rode the train, Bob Dole was amazed at the number of passengers riding toward the inner city carrying big-screen televisions and home theater systems.

St. Charles opposes it for the same reason they've opposed everything. Bob Dole was amazed when they finally paved Jungerman Road.

redbrian
08-06-2001, 12:13 PM
Will they have a special metro car for these "getto thugs" to carry all of their stuff?

Clint in Wichita
08-06-2001, 12:39 PM
I'd be afraid of any thug that could carry a big-screen TV home.

Those trains must have HUGE doors.

StLouisBob
08-06-2001, 12:47 PM
Beleive what you want. Ask a St. Louis County Cop what he/she thinks of the Metro Link.

Archie F. Swin
08-06-2001, 12:51 PM
looks like StLouisRob is really tired of hearing Nelly 5 times an hour on StL radio stations. Its gettin the best of him obviously

"EI,EI"

its a Midwest thang . . . y'all

KC Jones
08-06-2001, 01:15 PM
This guy is barely literate. I can't believe anyone takes his argument seriously. Especially such strong evidence as "A co-worker was telling me that his in-law cousins... " That my freinds is total gossip. I'm willing to accept secondary or even third sources, but a chain that @#()ing long is more likely an urban rumor.

Guess what? Many criminals have cars. As a matter of fact, you're chances of getting car-jacked or attacked at O.P. Mall are about as good as at Bannister Mall. Do you know what else? There are a lot of robberies and break ins in the suburbs too.

DiscoJones
08-06-2001, 01:25 PM
Quote from redbrian:

...just one of the many urban legends going around. Another version is a car flashing its lights at you, you return the signal and the gang members run you off the road and kill you.

I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here, but what redbrian is describing here is a form of gang initiation described in the book 'Monster : The Autobiography of an L.A. Gang Member' by Sanyika Shakur aka "Monster" Kody Scott.

The story goes like this: the gang members drive around the city in a vehicle with their headlights off. When another driver unsuspectingly flashes the gang car (the one without the lights on) they become marked. The gang then follows the car which flashed them and once the unsuspecting driver stops or pulls over (or whatever), whoever wants initiation into the gang has to beat the crap out of (or even kill) the driver who flashed them.

This story was written in an autobiographical context by a notorious L.A. gang member. I cannot verify it personally as fact, but I encourage anyone who is curious to read the book.

KS Smitty
08-06-2001, 01:39 PM
http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/national/line28.html

This is from 99 but concerning crime stats this is all that's said.
Yet Snodgrass complains of a tougher, rougher crowd that hangs out at the corner of 122nd and Burnside since the light rail line altered some of the neighborhood demographics.

"In the morning, people come in for coffee (before boarding MAX trains) and we have a good clientele. People are going downtown," he said. "The opposite is true in the evening. It's crowded, and you watch like a hawk (for shoplifters)."

Portland-area police could not provide crime statistics specific to the MAX line or the corridor around it. However, Portland police Capt. Larry Findling, who commands a Tri-Met security force, said the primary problem has been car break-ins and theft at park-and-ride lots.

"That's where people come to steal cars," he said. East Burnside has one park-and-ride lot, at 181st Avenue.

He estimates that reported incidents on trains have held steady or have declined slightly, while "police officer activity is rising. We have a lot of behavioral, inappropriate stuff where the officer talks to them, but it doesn't fall under a state statute."

Bob Dole
08-06-2001, 01:43 PM
And not to step back on toes...

Though print references to this scare date back to 1993, anecdotal information takes it back to the early 1980s when a reader in Montana heard the Hell's Angels bike gang in California was said to be initiating inductees in this fashion. By 1984 the story had spread to Eugene, Oregon and had by then changed into a tale of Black and hispanic street gangs in Los Angeles targeting white people. "Flash your headlights and have a prospective gang member kill you as part of his initiation" legends have been with us for almost twenty years, something that should be kept in mind as this year's hysteria builds.

You can read more <a href="http://www.snopes2.com/horrors/madmen/lightout.htm">here</a> or <a href="http://www.ulrc.com.au/ul000019.htm">here</a> or any number of reliable sources.

KS Smitty
08-06-2001, 01:51 PM
From British Columbia:
Much of the current analysis on Skytrain security issues has been commissioned by the Rapid Transit Project Office (RTPO), a provincial corporation tasked with the expansion of the Skytrain route.

RTPO commissioned the Security Resource Group (SRG) to determine whether the introduction of Skytrain stations will contribute to increased crime. To do so, SRG reviewed the impact of existing stations on crime rates. These are its findings:

Key Findings

While there is a common perception that crime increases where transit is introduced, there is no evidence to support a direct causal connection. Crime occurs where people and property are clustered. Understandably, transit is located where people are, or need to be. Research does suggest that SkyTrain, along with other modes of public and private transportation by improving areas of access, can act as a facilitator for certain types of criminal activity, such as vandalism, theft from autos, etc.
Overall crime in the Vancouver area rose rapidly in the early 1980ís, then decreased and levelled off until the early 1990ís when the rates went up again. Since the peak in 1991 and 1992, crime has been decreasing in the Vancouver area to a point where it is now below 1982 rates for most areas.
Throughout the 20 years studied in this report, the region also experienced significant changes in law, land use, population density and makeup, and development. All these changes have had an effect on crime trends.
There is some public concern about the impact of SkyTrain on crime, neighbourhoods and personal safety and security. According to studies gathered, the public is most fearful of nuisance behaviour, such as loitering, unsavory people and "street people". These are fears expressed about urban life in general. SkyTrain-specific public concerns include property crime and the visible drug sub-culture.
The public also frequently cites media portrayals of crime, in general, as feeding fears. Media reports on crime tend to locate offences near SkyTrain stations even if the incident did not occur at the station. This tend to increase the perception of a direct relationship between crime and SkyTrain. Recent coverage of gang activity in the area around and including the Broadway station is an example of such media coverage.
Data from local police agencies, particularly from Vancouver, Burnaby and New Westminster, indicate that primary concentrations of crime activity occur away from the SkyTrain system, usually in downtown cores. Downtown cores, in much of the world, typically support numerous other crime facilitators, making it difficult to separate the potential influence of SkyTrain from the influences of these other contributing factors.
Potential crime issues anticipated as a result of the extension of SkyTrain can be avoided, to some degree, through planning and designing stations with security aspects integral to the design. This forward-looking action will result in minimal crime impact around the majority of the proposed new SkyTrain stations when the system is fully implemented.
Significance of the Findings

Traditionally, in communities affected by the expansion of public transit service, the two greatest worries are (1) whether or not the transit systems are safe from criminal activities and (2) whether or not transit will cause a relative increase in crime within their neighbourhoods. It is important to address both of these concerns because rapid transit systems are built to serve communities and depend on those communities to maintain business revenues and ridership.

http://www.ag.gov.bc.ca/skytrain/data_review_4.htm

Brock
08-06-2001, 02:35 PM
Bottom line is, if we the people were allowed to carry firearms, the crime issue of transportation becomes a non-issue. A friend of mine was kidnapped from the parking garage at KCI by 4 thugs, they ATM'd him, and were going to kill him in the parking lot of a casino before the cops finally caught up to them. Why do you suppose these a-holes were hanging around an airport looking for a victim?

StLouisBob
08-06-2001, 02:42 PM
The Police told them that it was probably some sort of initiation thing. Due to the fact that they had a chance and did not rob them and did not hit any women. Just struck the guys right before the train stopped and they all jumped off. Just passing some info.

Logical
08-06-2001, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by JC-Johnny
So St.L.Bob - your basic premise is that 'suburban' america worked hard to distance themselves from 'urban' [if you know what I mean] america, and you are horrified by anything that reconnnects the pristine suburbia with the ghetto wasteland.
Why stop with nixing light rail? Why not have a toll on all roads leading into 'nice' neighborhoods? I'm sure the police could work up some nice 'profiles' of undesireables. But then, what if they nab your cleaning lady? Who'll do the cleaning?

Dude, I go to the Cards often. And its usually in a nice car [my '01 Grand Prix, my buddy's '00 Mustang, or my other buddy's ''00 540], we usually get there at the last minute, so we have to park on the other side of the bridge. Parking is $5 and the walk is pleasant [especially the beer girls at the bars along the way].


JC Johnny
I cannot speak for StLouisBob but I will answer your question with an emphatic yes. I do enjoy the isolation of suburbia from the sloth and decay of the urban blight that makes up 95% of all downtonw America. If that makes my attitude elitist so be it. It is the same reason my next home will probably be in a gated community. It does not eliminate the chance the wrong element will arrive at my doorstep but it does substantially reduce the chance.

It is also the reason I will probably only go to one game ever when the Padres move downtown. Why risk it especially for baseball. Again if you feel that makes me elitist in attitude, I am just happy that my hard work in life has paid off so I can afford the elitism.

StLouisBob
08-06-2001, 03:14 PM
Well stated. You are an elitists if you don't want to seperate yourself from filth. Then I guess I am a middle class elitist.

Baby Lee
08-06-2001, 03:15 PM
Logical - 1000 pardons if I'm wrong, but aren't you the guy who stays with his wife because, if she keeps her nose clean, its a more economical and common-sense arrangement for all involved. I'll give you this much, at least you're honest.

Logical
08-06-2001, 03:34 PM
Though you have slanted the reason your point about my honesty is correct.

I would probably qualify as one of the less racist people you might meet but I am definitely a person who believes if you want a decent lifestyle with little danger then you stay away from bad parts of town and the people who live life to create trouble. Those people come in all race, sex, and political orientations scum is scum and it is just as likely (percentages say more likely) to be white trash.

As far as the wife comment, what I said is that she has never been able to take care of finances and I have never been able to teach her in 24 years of marriage since 1977, that once I was able to get her to treat our kids the way they should be treated then staying with her made more sense than allowing her to ruin her own life because she could never take care of herself financially. That this sort of commitment was more important to me than a passionate love relationship. I also went on to say that though this works for us it might not work for others. Since you brought it up I thought the story should be kept straight.

Now if you please what did that have to do with my statements about desiring isolation from downtown urban blight and the elements that make it up. You are the one stating that this is an elitist attitude. I tend to think it is a pragmatic attitude.

One thing you or someone else got right is that I am among the types who stay away from downtown. In the 11 years I have lived in San Diego I have only been downtown four or five times except to go to the Airport. In Wichita I lived there 9 years and only 1 time ever went downtown (that was to have utilities turned on). In Kansas City from 1973 to 1983 I probably only went downtown a half dozen times other than to visit my stepfather at the Downtown Police station) and those were for events a Municipal Auditorium when I went with my stepfather. It is fairly safe to go with a guy carrying a handgun and a badge that authorizes him to use it.

Heck my stepfather who dealt with societies worst elements chose to move to KC North in 1958 to avoid the urban elements and have safety for his family.

These things seem simply smart to me not elitist.

HC_Chief
08-06-2001, 03:51 PM
I support the light rail. I hate having to deal with all of the I-35 traffic... having to feul-up all the time because of trips downtown from our office(located in Lenexa). It would be great to park, pay a couple of bucks for an all-day pass(like they have for the 'L' in Chicago), and cruise downtown.

Baby Lee
08-06-2001, 03:52 PM
Logical - I make no judgments on your life, because that isn't my bag. It just struck me as lonely and perilous to express one's disdain for, and clear wish to avoid, such a large portion of one's fellow man. Particularly coupled with a less than warm relationship with one's own spouse.

StL Bob - now those who live in urban areas are 'filth?'


[John is without words . . . ]:eek: :eek:

VAChief
08-06-2001, 06:19 PM
Personally I would love to see downtown KC revitalized as a destination for shopping, entertainment, and events...there are success stories all over this country where the proper vision has helped bring people back together downtown.

Sometimes these things take more time than seems necessary (look how long it took just to get the Union Station project going), but in my opinion the goal is still worthwhile. It may be a myth, but the perception is that a strong downtown is necessary for a metro area to stay competitive and grow economically.

If an individual prefers to stay in the burbs I have no problem with that and make no value judgements on them as a person.

I do disagree with Bob in that I don't think the threat (perceived or real) of criminal activity is a good reason to deny access to something others might enjoy. When the plane hijackings in the late 60's and 70's were more prevalent we didn't expect air travel to be abandoned. Increased efforts to decrease the possibility of occurence were adopted. That seems to me to be the most sensible approach (If a problem arises...you fix it!).

Like I said before I don't know if light rail is right for KC (at least at this time), but fear of increased criminal activity seems short-sighted at best.

Logical
08-06-2001, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by JC-Johnny
Logical - I make no judgments on your life, because that isn't my bag. It just struck me as lonely and perilous to express one's disdain for, and clear wish to avoid, such a large portion of one's fellow man. Particularly coupled with a less than warm relationship with one's own spouse..................................

[John is without words . . . ]:eek: :eek:

JC,

I remember reading somewhere that less than 5% of the entire US population live in the urban downtown areas once you get away from the East coast megalopolis of New York, Philly, Boston etc.

So it does not seem that I am excluding a very big percentage whatsoever. I live in an area with over 3 million people probably 5 million if you count the Tijuana Baja region, I am sure that I am excluding at least 99% of them from my life as that would mean that I am still interfacing with over 30,000 -50,000 people (highly unlikely I interface with that many) let alone the 5% that would live downtown.

P.S. there is a huge difference between not passionate and less than warm!