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keg in kc
08-06-2001, 09:59 PM
Green making progress, will start against Redskins Sunday

By ADAM TEICHER - The Kansas City Star (http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/chiefs98.pat,sports/3acce020.806,.html)
Date: 08/06/01 22:15

RIVER FALLS, Wis. -- Training camp has been a series of small victories for Chiefs quarterback Trent Green, who won a couple of more battles Monday.

Coach Dick Vermeil and his staff determined that Green will play in Sunday night's exhibition opener against Washington at Arrowhead Stadium. Green will probably play the first quarter and possibly into the second.

Also, Green for the first time practiced in the blitz drill. That's significant because it requires the quarterback to avoid the pass rush.

The Chiefs until Monday weren't sure Green's surgically repaired left knee was ready for that type of activity and didn't want to subject him to any setbacks.

"The other players need him out there," Vermeil said. "They need to feel his presence."

Those words brought a smile to Green's face, two years after he lost his starting job with St. Louis because of his knee injury.

"I'll take as much work as I can get," Green said of the plans for Sunday's game. "I talked to the coaches a little bit about that. Hopefully as the week progresses, we can kind of narrow it down if it's going to be a number of plays, if it's going to be the first quarter or second quarter, if it's going to be based on production.

"I'm anticipating playing and hopefully it will go well. I'm real happy with the way it's going, and I want to get out there in a real game and real fire and see how it's going to hold up."

Monday's developments continued the training-camp pattern of positive news for the Chiefs regarding Green. Many of the club's burning issues entering camp involved Green: Would his knee hold up and, if so, could he get enough practice time to be ready for the Sept. 9 season opener against Oakland?

Everyone involved has been pleased with the answers so far. Green has practiced more than the Chiefs initially expected. His only absences from practice were mandated by Vermeil and the training staff.

Between meetings and twice-daily practice sessions, Green didn't have enough time to adequately continue his rehabilitation program. So he has skipped some early portions of certain afternoon practices to rehab.

"I'm getting the work out of him that I hoped I would get out of him," Vermeil said. "During the coaching staff's vacation (in early July), he continued to work with our medical staff and he's had no problems, knock on wood.

"It's not an issue. We'll still monitor, but as far as we're concerned, he's ready to play."

Ironically, the problem hasn't been Green's health but that of those around him, specifically the wide receivers. Derrick Alexander, Marvin Minnis and Tony Horne returned to practice Monday morning after extended absences, but Horne's sore hamstring again prevented him from working in the afternoon.

Since Green missed most of the off-season workouts because of his rehabilitation, he needs every pass he can throw to players who will be part of the receiving rotation.

"He's still getting used to the people around him," offensive coordinator Al Saunders said. "It's hard to get a rhythm that you'd like without being able to work with the guys on a consistent basis. That's been the disappointment."

Green appears to be making progress with the receivers who have been healthy. He hooked up recently with Derrick Mayes for a touchdown on a fade pattern both altered after seeing cornerback William Bartee sitting on the route.

Mayes cut inside, and Green placed the pass where only the receiver could get it.

"He and I have started to get those veteran eyes where wide receivers and quarterbacks can just look at each other and know what's really going on," Mayes said. "That's something I hoped would come. I knew it would take some time, but we're already starting to get it down.

"He's even more of a competitor than I even imagined. He expects to complete every pass. He puts that pressure on himself, and he puts that responsibility on his receivers."

Vermeil and Saunders were familiar with Green from their time together with the Rams. But several players were eager for training camp to begin to see exactly what Green was all about.

They're finding out. Green's throwing is as accurate as billed.

"I had heard about his great touch on the ball, that he could put it right where you needed it," running back Priest Holmes said. "I asked him to give me the ball in a certain place, and right away he did it. It wasn't a problem for him.

"There's no hesitation about where he's going to deliver the ball. It's obvious he's got this offense down."

Familiarity with the offense is yet another reason the Chiefs acquired Green.

"None of us are worried about Trent and where he's going to be," Saunders said. "Our concern is developing the people around him that will allow him to function as the quarterback we know. The sooner that happens, the sooner we're going to have the results we want."

mcan
08-07-2001, 06:06 AM
Man, this trade keeps getting better and better. But, I'm sure the media will still bash it, even after Trent throws for 4,000 yards and a 120 QB rating.:D :D :D :D

KCTitus
08-07-2001, 06:13 AM
"He and I have started to get those veteran eyes where wide receivers and quarterbacks can just look at each other and know what's really going on," Mayes said. "That's something I hoped would come. I knew it would take some time, but we're already starting to get it down. -- THIS is key...let's hope DA and TG can get some real work in before camp breaks.

KCJohnny
08-07-2001, 06:52 AM
I'll get flamed for this, but has anyone thought about plan B?
Green could get reinjured (I had one of those ACL reconstructions; they take about 2 years to completely heal) or sustain a new injury (God forbid). Then what? I just hope he stays healthy or we could be looking at the Bubby the geriatric show. Hopefully Collins will get PT in preseason...it might be all he sees before such a moment warrants his appearance in the KC huddle.

I want Green to lead the Chiefs to the SB but I get this sinking feeling in the bottom of my gut that something will go wrong with him physically. gee, I hopr that's just the Chinese food I ate last night...

KCJ
:(

ChiefGator
08-07-2001, 07:02 AM
KCJ,

There are so few decent (not to mention good) QB's in the league that MOST teams don't have a proven backup. The only ones that leap to mind are Denver, Saints, and Miami. (Excluding teams with unproven rookie backups.) If the Rams' backup could hold on to the ball he might be okay. (didn't see the whole game yesterday, but his stats look nice.) If you need any other indication of how bad the QB crop really is, take a look at Dallas's starting QB.. or how long Kordell has survived as the starting QB..

Personally, I remember Brister coming off the bench and having some decent games for Denver in '98. At least he is somewhat of a leader and can stand in a game for a while. If you want to know the truth, I think we are in the top 50% for backup QB's in the league. Maybe that is homerism, but then again, maybe we should discuss this after a couple preseason games.

Mark

bishop_74
08-07-2001, 07:02 AM
No, you're right, that would suck. But I can sit here and worry about it, or I can revel in the excitement of our new offense. I would rather be excited. :D

KCJohnny
08-07-2001, 07:12 AM
Sunshine, I agree that compared with a lot of other teams, the chiefs have sound QB depth. I guess I was spoiled by all those years when the QB was an insert into a system that would truck on with or without him. Marty used 5 QBs in 7 years and got to the playoffs with all of them. In fact, many of them went to the PB even his on-a-leash system.

This current system seems to be based on Trent Green's familiarity with it, his comfort in it, his running it in StL, etc... Hopefully the other guys will get some practice reps because the possibility of Green getting whacked is real. Green avaerages getting sacked once every 10 times he drops back to pass. That is amazing when you see that his main experience has been in the 3-5 step drop offense. I hope he stays healthy. If he does, he'll be the AFC's QB in Hawaii.

KCJ

Radar Chief
08-07-2001, 07:23 AM
Your right John,
It probably is the Chinese food you ate. Did you go to one of those 24-hour Chinese Restaurants? You know, the ones that are open 24-hours but never take the trash out.
;)

htismaqe
08-07-2001, 07:47 AM
Johnny,

Your first post was absolutely well thought out and warranted.

It's the second post that will likely get you flamed.

You do realize that Marty's "plug and play" system was the reason why we never made it to the Super Bowl? The one QB we got in here with some real mettle got us to the AFC Championship.

kcred
08-07-2001, 07:57 AM
After reading the JO PO article this morning, I think, even with Green, we have concerns in our passing game. DA can't seem to stay injury free, Minnis has already been sideline with a concussion, Horne, see DA, Chris Thomas has been our best WR, and I don't think we are going to find the next Jerry Rice amonst the rest. I question the move of leaving Green in for more than a quarter. After the Skins first team goes out, there are bound to be headhunters looking just to make the squad, and what better way than to put the opposing QB on the sidelines.

KCJohnny
08-07-2001, 09:24 AM
The plug and play scheme was what i was used to, not what i endorse, Parker. Read it again.

My concern is that the O is being built so much around a person rather than a system that if Green goes out, the Chiefs are in the tank. I realize that all teams face this situation to one degree or another, but it seems more acute here.

Green is a fiery competitor, and I doubt he will ease up just because its a preseason game against his old team and the Chiefs former HC...

KCJ

htismaqe
08-07-2001, 09:34 AM
Chaplain,

I apologize. I did read your post wrong. Unfortunately, I got used to it too. I guess that's why the prospect of Green excites me so much.

KCJohnny
08-07-2001, 11:01 AM
I am excited about Green, too. I just wish I had the faith that he would last 16 gruelling NFL games. Then again, I don't have faith that ANY NFL QB can go for 16 games, regardless of their health/strength.

A healthy Green = a playoff berth IMO.

KCJ

htismaqe
08-07-2001, 11:18 AM
Proctor,

I agree that with Green healthy we should make the playoffs.

I also think that with the quality of the staff we now have, some players that we formerly thought "stunk", like Todd Collins, might actually be able to perform. Off things happen when you just give a guy a chance...just ask Trent Green about Kurt Warner...

KCJohnny
08-07-2001, 11:26 AM
I have a theory.
If the Chiefs REALLY do attempt a Rams-West arena/indoor/speed type attack, it won't work. This type of scheme needs high powered players at nearly all the skill positions, and we just don't have that.
If the Chiefs use the formidable talents of Tony Richardson and Tony Gonzales and actually get good again at pounding the ball, I think we could morph into something special.

I think a solid ground attack would also give Green some breathing room. I can't wait to see it. Remember guys, an incomplete on 1st down creates a 2nd and 10. A 3-5 yd gain on first down creates 2 downs to get 3-7 yards. I would love to see Green operate an offense like the '94 or '95 Chiefs. Imagine this guy with a 2,000 yd rushing attack and a defense that could hold opponents to under 20 week in and week out.

KCJ

htismaqe
08-07-2001, 12:00 PM
If the Chiefs REALLY do attempt a Rams-West arena/indoor/speed type attack, it won't work. This type of scheme needs high powered players at nearly all the skill positions, and we just don't have that.

I agree.

If the Chiefs use the formidable talents of Tony Richardson and Tony Gonzales and actually get good again at pounding the ball, I think we could morph into something special.

I don't agree. Pounding the ball isn't necessary. Mixing it up is. A 50-50 split between run and pass with a mix of inside/outside rushing...

I think a solid ground attack would also give Green some breathing room.

I agree.

Remember guys, an incomplete on 1st down creates a 2nd and 10. A 3-5 yd gain on first down creates 2 downs to get 3-7 yards. I would love to see Green operate an offense like the '94 or '95 Chiefs. Imagine this guy with a 2,000 yd rushing attack and a defense that could hold opponents to under 20 week in and week out.

I wouldn't go that far. Again, I hope we mix it up, especially on first down. It's all about BALANCE.

KCJohnny
08-07-2001, 12:42 PM
DV likes to pound the ball with a nice lead. His articles for Realteam.com make that loudly evident. He has said that he wants to get a big early lead and then pound the ball. I just don't know about that. If you have the Horses (StL, Den, Min) then, sure. But if you have T-Rich/Priest and the NFL's best TE and a WR getting 18 ypc, why try to get all sexy with this hyper-speed dink game?

I know I won't get what i want. It's your turn. Some of you guys have been howling for this change since '90. Don't be too blown away when some incomplete passes or INTs get us down by 14 instead of up from time to time. You live by that, you die by that.

I'm all for variety, deception, ect, but I prefer a system that they just can't stop, even when they know it is coming, like Stockton-to-Malone in the pick/n/roll or the '99 Chiefs rushing attack, which fooled no one, and pounded nearly everyone.

KCJ
Out-of-touch dinosaur

Baby Lee
08-07-2001, 01:07 PM
You do realize that Marty's "plug and play" system was the reason why we never made it to the Super Bowl? The one QB we got in here with some real mettle got us to the AFC Championship.

Gotta call you on this. Not so much the start. I agree that the offense went into a shell come playoff time [actually, IMO it never learned the law of the 'extra gear']. But I gotta disagree with the sentiment that Joe 'got us' to the AFC Championship Game. First, I agree the comeback against the Steelers was good, but the D in both that game and the Oilers game [especially the Oilers game, with Phillips and Saleamua bustin' up the middle ALL DAY and the secondary like white on rice] was the difference. Second, concussion or no, that game against the Bills was the one playoff game in the '90's I knew the offense had NO CHANCE of winning. Even in the Colts game, even in the Broncos embroglio, we had CHANCES. That AFC Championship game was over somewhere around the first Buffalo snowflake to fall after the Chiefs/Oilers game.

KCJohnny
08-07-2001, 01:17 PM
I wonder if ANY team has ever done that: 5 playoff appearances in 7 years with 5 different QBs:
DeBerg
Kreig
Montana
Bono
Grbac
and SIX if you count Gannon...

Minny is close (what? Moon, Johnson, Cunningham, George and Culpepper) but I don't know how many years they did it.

Actually, the si iliarities between Marty and Denny green are scary...

KCJ

htismaqe
08-07-2001, 01:37 PM
Yep, Denny Green hasn't been to a Super Bowl either.

Stockton and Malone? Boy, John, you really have a thing for guys that come close and never make it...

BIG_DADDY
08-07-2001, 02:53 PM
Green is still my biggest concern. It is great to see him doing so well. I hope we don't push it too much though. The first quarter should be sufficient.

BIG DADDY

Can hardly wait to see our new QB in action.

keg in kc
08-07-2001, 03:23 PM
I'm as worried about the backup QB spot as anyone else, but I don't really see that there's anything we can do about it. We dont' have even 500K to spend on a vet QB right now, and we sure don't have the 1 mil to pay someone like Trent Dilfer (who I don't think is any better than Todd Collins anyway). You have to just play the games and not be preoccupied with the injury risk. If Green goes down, he goes down, and we take it from there. To worry about that now (I'm talking about us, the fans when I say this), or to expect it isn't going to do anything but cause an ulcer...

Just relax and let whatever happens happen.

philfree
08-07-2001, 03:30 PM
The Chiefs ended the practice with the two-minute drill. Trent Green threw six for eight with 50 yards. Green was able to get the team in field goal range with eight seconds left. Quarterback Todd Collins had a good day, leading the team all the way down field for a touchdown. He threw six for eight with 70 yards on the drive. Tight end Mikhael Ricks was very impressive on the drive, making a leaping one handed catch for 15 yards, and then scoring on a 2-yard fade pattern to end the drive. -Camp Website

Perhaps now that we have a coaching staff that knows how to coach QBs Collins' play will go to a higher level.

PhilFree :cool: