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View Full Version : Hillary: 'Don't get your hopes up, vote for me!'


HolmeZz
02-25-2008, 03:18 PM
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Smooth move to alienate the other candidate's supporters, who you'd need in the General Election. It's amazing how poorly run her campaign's been.

Mr. Kotter
02-25-2008, 03:42 PM
That is pretty bad.....an amateurish mistake. And if she were to somehow comeback and win....with McCain as a RINO, according to some....more than a few Obama supporters could migrate to McCain with comments like that. Though it seems a moot point, for now.

...In fairness, though; she is right.

jAZ
02-25-2008, 04:01 PM
That is pretty bad.....an amateurish mistake. And if she were to somehow comeback and win....with McCain as a RINO, according to some....more than a few Obama supporters could migrate to McCain with comments like that.
I'd stay home.
...In fairness, though; she is right.
What's she right about?

Taco John
02-25-2008, 04:05 PM
What kind of person finds this kind of politicking endearing? How does she expect to win Obama supporters over with this kind of message?

jAZ
02-25-2008, 04:10 PM
What kind of person finds this kind of politicking endearing? How does she expect to win Obama supporters over with this kind of message?
She's working on OH/TX undecidedes... and she's hoping to trivialize him as empty and keep people from becoming Obama supporters, because those people are irrational and think the clouds will part and good things will fall out of the sky.

And apparently Kotter thinks that actual Obama supporters really do believe that's true.

irishjayhawk
02-25-2008, 04:13 PM
She's working on OH/TX undecidedes... and she's hoping to trivialize him as empty and keep people from becoming Obama supporters, because those people are irrational and think the clouds will part and good things will fall out of the sky.

And apparently Kotter thinks that actual Obama supporters really do believe that's true.

Never underestimate people. Especially dumb people.

Imagine your concept of the average stupid person. And then think that 50% of people are stupider than that. :doh!:

Mr. Kotter
02-25-2008, 04:32 PM
Never underestimate people. Especially dumb people.

Imagine your concept of the average stupid person. And then think that 50% of people are stupider than that. :doh!:


Bingo. 5% or so of the voters will fall into that category....probably pretty evenly split between the two parties though.

jAZ
02-25-2008, 04:37 PM
Bingo. 5% or so of the voters will fall into that category....probably pretty evenly split between the two parties though.
Ahhh.... Then you meant to say, that you estimate she's 2.5% right.

Mr. Kotter
02-25-2008, 04:46 PM
Ahhh.... Then you meant to say, that you estimate she's 2.5% right.

She's right that there are people like that, yes. It's just stupid to say it out loud if you are a candidate.

jAZ
02-25-2008, 04:52 PM
Never underestimate people. Especially dumb people.

Imagine your concept of the average stupid person. And then think that 50% of people are stupider than that. :doh!:
Ouch.

But seriously, the average obama voter is more highly educated than the average hillary voter. That's one of his political challenges, and one of the knocks on his campaign by his foes.

The suggestion that Obama voters generally believe that all that's required to fix the mess in Iraq is merely "hope"... and that hard, thoughtful work using sound judgement is not at all expected out of Obama by his supporters... is assinine.

That philosphy is more analogous to the Bush voting Christian who believes that the most important quality in a leader is that they are "prayerful" because the solution to our really big problems are indeed prayers.

That Kotter has decided to blast Obama supporters as zombies isn't suprising... just amusing, given his religous POV.

jAZ
02-25-2008, 04:54 PM
She's right that there are people like that, yes. It's just stupid to say it out loud if you are a candidate.
You and I both know that she wasn't speaking of the mindless 2.5% that you estimate they all have.

memyselfI
02-25-2008, 04:57 PM
That is pretty bad.....an amateurish mistake. And if she were to somehow comeback and win....with McCain as a RINO, according to some....more than a few Obama supporters could migrate to McCain with comments like that. Though it seems a moot point, for now.

...In fairness, though; she is right.

She knows how smart this electorate is.

HolmeZz
02-25-2008, 04:59 PM
She's the one benefiting from the mindless populace moreso than Obama. It's why her best groups are old people, women, and the uneducated.

Taco John
02-25-2008, 05:50 PM
She's working on OH/TX undecidedes... and she's hoping to trivialize him as empty and keep people from becoming Obama supporters, because those people are irrational and think the clouds will part and good things will fall out of the sky.

And apparently Kotter thinks that actual Obama supporters really do believe that's true.



Well, now I'm confused. I thought Kotter WAS an Obama supporter.

patteeu
02-25-2008, 06:01 PM
Well, now I'm confused. I thought Kotter WAS an Obama supporter.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen the movie Jumper? I did. It was pretty lame, so I can't recommend it too highly.

memyselfI
02-25-2008, 06:09 PM
She really should have done this back in December. Now it looks petty but back then it could have exposed Obamessiah for the demagogue he is.


"A demagogue tries to sound as stupid as his audience so that they will think they are as clever as he is."-Karl Krauss.

HolmeZz
02-25-2008, 06:19 PM
Anybody wanna organize a boardwide ignore-protest of Meme?

Logical
02-25-2008, 07:39 PM
She's the one benefiting from the mindless populace moreso than Obama. It's why her best groups are old people, women, and the uneducated.
Did you really mean to group seniors and women among the mindless?:doh!:

HolmeZz
02-25-2008, 07:48 PM
Did you really mean to group seniors and women among the mindless?:doh!:

As far as the least politically aware, yes. Hillary's base is rooted in more people who don't pay attention than Barack's is.

|Zach|
02-25-2008, 07:52 PM
She really should have done this back in December. Now it looks petty but back then it could have exposed Obamessiah for the demagogue he is.

You mean before people knew more about him?

I agree, the more people know about him the stronger candidate he is. People see this fluff for what it really is.

htismaqe
02-26-2008, 06:38 AM
As far as the least politically aware, yes. Hillary's base is rooted in more people who don't pay attention than Barack's is.

Wow.

Cochise
02-26-2008, 07:09 AM
She's [trying to] keep people from becoming Obama supporters, because those people are irrational and think the clouds will part and good things will fall out of the sky

Well? :shrug:

Cochise
02-26-2008, 07:10 AM
Wow.

I don't find "you'd agree with me if you weren't so stupid" to be anything really new from the american left.

Mr. Kotter
02-26-2008, 07:26 AM
...That Kotter has decided to blast Obama supporters as zombies isn't suprising... just amusing, given his religous POV.

Bash Obama supporters? :spock: WTF....I am a supporter; I'm just not sure if I'll vote for him in November yet.

That you are totally clueless isn't surprising either. In the least.

What Hillary is really saying here isn't complicated or shocking....in fact, it's true....

that a sizable chunk of voters in general (including some of those now supporting Obama--and especially on the Dem side, IMO)....are really wide-eyed idealists who are gullible when it comes to being inspired by ANY eloquent, charismatic, and bright politician.

Obama just happens to be the first to really come along in awhile.

There is a difference between being stupid and being idealistic as well. Some idealistic people are also stupid--they are the ones, generally, who remain knee-jerk "partisans." Other idealistic people grow up....and realize that both of our political parties are far too often....FOS.

I don't find "you'd agree with me if you weren't so stupid" to be anything really new from the american left.

That attitude comes from the right, almost as often....as it does the left.

Cochise
02-26-2008, 08:02 AM
That attitude comes from the right, almost as often....as it does the left.

I know you are just required to say stuff like that to maintain your quantum tunnelling ideology.

Mr. Kotter
02-26-2008, 08:31 AM
I know you are just required to say stuff like that to maintain your quantum tunnelling ideology.

And I know you, as an elitist conservative, promote blind allegiance to ideology as a means to restore hegemony.

Luckily for you, the opposition has been so incompetent that the Keystone Cops leadership of your party....has been able to keep a step ahead.

I understand Obama may threaten that luxury. Really.

;)

Cochise
02-26-2008, 08:44 AM
And I know you, as an elitist conservative, promote blind allegiance to ideology as a means to restore hegemony.


:rolleyes: elitist = having any enduring convictions about anything

Mr. Kotter
02-26-2008, 09:10 AM
:rolleyes: elitist = having any enduring convictions about anything

Because others don't blindly accept the same ideological principles as you do...doesn't mean they don't have any.

I shared mine here:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=179873

You care to share yours as explicitly as I have? Or maybe you have, and I've missed it.

Perhaps you prefer the conservative platitudes, ideological rigidity, and divisive rhetoric, though.... NTTAWWT, really. :shrug:

;)

irishjayhawk
02-26-2008, 09:25 AM
Wow.

He's partially right, though, to be fair it's a bit generalized. I would say that women, on the whole, are less politically charged than men. I would say old people are, on the whole, less open to new ideas and more ingrained in what has been. (ie. Blackness of a candidate) Finally, the uneducated, well, I think we can all agree there (that they're not politically inclined nor informed, not that they are more under Hillary's campaign or Obama's)

I don't find "you'd agree with me if you weren't so stupid" to be anything really new from the american left.

I also don't find it to be a new tactic nor exclusive to the "american [sic] left" Likewise, I don't find fear mongering to be anything new from the "American right" nor exclusive to the them.

Cochise
02-26-2008, 09:32 AM
All that you shared is that you don't have any beliefs that are absolute, that you aren't willing to sacrifice for the sake of 'like'.

You know, honestly, I think that your highest priority in choosing a candidate is being able to celebrate. Reaganism was en vogue at one time, you were there... then the political fashion victims moved on to celebrate Clinton, then more than likely Bush, now Obama is the "it girl". Once again you can be found wherever the party's at.

It's not shameful, you know, to lose with your dignity intact. Standing up for principle, or simply possessing them, is not a weakness. It doesn't make you closed minded. Principle by definition is not carried along like dandelion pappus. The only one you seem to be in possession of is that being on the losing team is a deadly sin.

memyselfI
02-26-2008, 09:36 AM
Get used to it. Obamessiah's words are facing more scrutiny and the irony of this is if he doesn't face it now he'll face it later when he's expected to live up to his lofty rhetoric and will be prisoner of his own words.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-obama-must-beware-of-turning-into-a-cult-787298.html

Dominic Lawson: Obama must beware of turning into a cult

His speeches are studded with religious rhetoric. A chapter in his book is entitled 'Faith'

At this stage, it must be desperation rather than strategy: Hillary Clinton has unleashed the potentially deadly weapon of ridicule against Barack Obama. The almost hoarse Senator from New York told supporters in Rhode Island yesterday: "I could just stand up here and say [that] the sky will open, the light will come down, celestial choirs will be singing and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect."

Mrs Clinton did not mention her rival in this peroration but it was a very pertinent caricature of Mr Obama as the new Messiah. In fairness to Obama, the greatest claims for his near-divinity come not from his own lips but from his supporters. One of them is his own wife Michelle, who announced: "Our souls are broken in this nation. Barack Obama is the only person who understands that ... before we can work on the problems, we have to fix our souls.":Lin: Even such a political veteran as the eighth-term Illinois Congressman Bobby Rush says Obama's political career has been "divinely ordered". His language is moderate compared to that used by some of Obama's youthful supporters, who talk openly of being members of "a cult" and of their rallies as being "religious experiences".

More surprisingly, seen-it-all reporters seem to have undergone a similar epiphany. MSNBC's Chris Matthews somewhat to the consternation of his co-hosts declared that Obama "comes along and he has the answers. This is the New Testament". The experienced Washington correspondent for The Australian, Geoff Elliott, reported: "You know something special is going on. The atmosphere at his events is such that one wonders if Obama is about to walk out with a basket with some loaves and fishes to feed the thousands."

Obama has a stock line which seems to play straight into the notion that he is an instrument of the divine. To a number of audiences, he has declared: "My job is be so persuasive that if there's anybody left out there who is still not sure whether they will vote, or is still not clear who they will vote for, that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down on you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realise that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama." ROFLROFL

To be fair to Obama, this is said in a manner which just leaves open the idea that he is not being entirely serious. Yet I don't believe that those applauding this riff see it as elevated irony and it is slightly creepy even as a joke. Perhaps it isn't a joke at all, but completely sincere: Obama's speeches are studded with religious rhetoric. For example, last October he told an audience of 4,000 that he hoped to be "an instrument of God" and that "I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth".

This sort of rhetoric from an American politician is not a novelty. There has been a strong sense ever since Independence indeed it is at the heart of America's own sense of uniqueness that this is a nation chosen by God, a sort of New Jerusalem. Barack Obama is certainly not the first campaigner for the presidency to use almost Biblical language to tell the American people that they and they alone can "save" the world from sin and wickedness.

Yet in recent decades the American Left has shunned such religiosity, regarding similar language used by the so-called "religious right" with extreme distaste. In such a strongly churchgoing country as the US, this was always going to limit the appeal of the Democrats. Anyone who has read Obama's book The Audacity Of Hope will already have known that the junior Senator from Illinois had no intention of ignoring this constituency, were he ever to run for the presidency.

There is an entire chapter on this, entitled "Faith". In it, Obama wrote: "The discomfort of some progressives with any hint of religiosity has often inhibited us from effectively addressing issues in moral terms. Some of the problem is rhetorical: scrub language of all religious content and we forfeit the imagery and terminology through which millions of Americans understand both their own personal morality and social justice."

He also wrote that for Democrats to shun religiosity is "bad politics" adding: "When we shy away from religious venues and religious broadcasts ... others will fill the vacuum." Well, if there ever was such a vacuum, Barack Obama is filling it now. As he will certainly have anticipated, many erstwhile Republican voters are seduced by this form of rhetoric and have been indicating that they will vote for Obama. In fact, he has invented a word for these voters: he calls them "Obamicans".

It is interesting that this seems to have been an unmitigated benefit. Not only has Obama successfully made an appeal to Republicans who viewed other Democrats as godless, but the Left has, by and large, ignored its scruples and refused to criticise its candidate's studied use of specifically Christian language and imagery. As a result, Obama has got away with claims to metaphysical virtue which would have been denounced as medievally idiotic presumption, had they been uttered by a Republican candidate.

To Obama's credit, he does not follow the religious Right in denouncing his opponents as wicked. The worst you can say is that this is implicit in his message, rather than explicit. Nevertheless,there is an underlying strain of intolerance in Obama's message of unification. In his victory speech in Wisconsin last week, he made his usual attack on "special interests". "We must put aside the divisions in Washington. We must work for a higher purpose" or perhaps that should be Higher Purpose. Yet to stigmatise "divisions in Washington" is just acceptable rhetoric for denouncing the workings of a complex pluralistic democracy. For "divisions" read "disagreement" or "opposition". Obama, of course, is a democrat as well as a Democrat; but there is something in this form of rhetoric that has echoes of fascism, with its idea that the squabbling of mere politicians should be overthrown in favour of one man's uniquely wise interpretation of the National Will. Phrases such as "everything must be changed" were also the stock-in-trade of fascist orators, raising hopes which ended in the most dreadful disillusionment and worse.

I think Barack Obama understands this risk. For all the fever of his rallies, his own oratorical style never descends into ranting, still less foam-flecked hysteria. Yet the frenzy he has engendered contains within it the seeds of bitter disappointment, or even tragedy. There is the question of his own physical safety. Less morbidly, what will be the reaction of his supporters if he should fail to be elected President? Perhaps most troubling of all, what will be their reaction if he is elected, but the celestial choirs fail to appear and the world refuses to be perfect? :doh!:

bkkcoh
02-26-2008, 09:39 AM
Hilliary's respone to the latest Ohio and Texas polls...

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080225/capt.32948d4d7682438e93b6c04c9972a109.clinton_2008_mack135.jpg?x=400&y=248&sig=z7N0ZaDqM6s1e_ToTPDdpA--

irishjayhawk
02-26-2008, 09:45 AM
All that you shared is that you don't have any beliefs that are absolute, that you aren't willing to sacrifice for the sake of 'like'.

You know, honestly, I think that your highest priority in choosing a candidate is being able to celebrate. Reaganism was en vogue at one time, you were there... then the political fashion victims moved on to celebrate Clinton, then more than likely Bush, now Obama is the "it girl". Once again you can be found wherever the party's at.

It's not shameful, you know, to lose with your dignity intact. Standing up for principle, or simply possessing them, is not a weakness. It doesn't make you closed minded. Principle by definition is not carried along like dandelion pappus. The only one you seem to be in possession of is that being on the losing team is a deadly sin.

Is this me or Kotter?

Cochise
02-26-2008, 09:54 AM
Is this me or Kotter?

oh, kotter, not you. sorry. Well, maybe you for all I know, but I meant to quote him.

vailpass
02-26-2008, 10:16 AM
She's the one benefiting from the mindless populace moreso than Obama. It's why her best groups are old people, women, and the uneducated.

Dumb ****er. The elderly and women don't necessarily belong in the same group as uneducated.

I'm also willing to bet that Obabymama has a large contingent of uneducated supporters. I've seen them on TV, ghetto dwellers and southern brothers that can't spell cat but are going to make their mark on the dotted line to vote for the black prez.

irishjayhawk
02-26-2008, 10:43 AM
oh, kotter, not you. sorry. Well, maybe you for all I know, but I meant to quote him.

Well I never cheerleaded for Clinton or Bush. :D

HolmeZz
02-26-2008, 10:44 AM
Dumb ****er. The elderly and women don't necessarily belong in the same group as uneducated.

As far as voting blocks go, yes. They are usually the least politically aware. It's a generality, but on the average it's the case.

It's funny that most of you have no problem calling Obama's supporters mindless, but if I designate the mindlessness to another generality you guys get all upset.

irishjayhawk
02-26-2008, 10:47 AM
Dumb ****er. The elderly and women don't necessarily belong in the same group as uneducated.

I'm also willing to bet that Obabymama has a large contingent of uneducated supporters. I've seen them on TV, ghetto dwellers and southern brothers that can't spell cat but are going to make their mark on the dotted line to vote for the black prez.

You do realize that putting them in the same group does not mean that the elderly and women ARE uneducated, right?

vailpass
02-26-2008, 10:49 AM
You do realize that putting them in the same group does not mean that the elderly and women ARE uneducated, right?

You do realize that I was enjoying ****ing with Holmezz by giving him a taste of his own medicine by accusing him of prejudice where there was none until you came along and ruined it, right?

HolmeZz
02-26-2008, 10:50 AM
You do realize that putting them in the same group does not mean that the elderly and women ARE uneducated, right?

I should've said the women and elderly were black so VP wouldn't get so upset. ;)

vailpass
02-26-2008, 10:51 AM
As far as voting blocks go, yes. They are usually the least politically aware. It's a generality, but on the average it's the case.

It's funny that most of you have no problem calling Obama's supporters mindless, but if I designate the mindlessness to another generality you guys get all upset.

Just phackin' with ya.

vailpass
02-26-2008, 10:52 AM
I should've said the women and elderly were black so VP wouldn't get so upset. ;)

Oh, in that case alright then.:p

Mr. Kotter
02-26-2008, 11:34 AM
All that you shared is that you don't have any beliefs that are absolute, that you aren't willing to sacrifice for the sake of 'like'.

You know, honestly, I think that your highest priority in choosing a candidate is being able to celebrate. Reaganism was en vogue at one time, you were there... then the political fashion victims moved on to celebrate Clinton, then more than likely Bush, now Obama is the "it girl". Once again you can be found wherever the party's at.

It's not shameful, you know, to lose with your dignity intact. Standing up for principle, or simply possessing them, is not a weakness. It doesn't make you closed minded. Principle by definition is not carried along like dandelion pappus. The only one you seem to be in possession of is that being on the losing team is a deadly sin.

:spock:

Hey....I "supported" Carter in '76 (I know he 'won'--but talk about naive), Dole in '96, and Gore in 2000. That means, I'm one for the last three.

:shrug:

Now, my Labor Day predictions have been correct since 1980. But there's a big difference between predicting and supporting/voting for. I could vote for Obama or McCain....I'll be one of those watching the campaign pretty closely between now and November. If I had to guess, national security and taxes will swing me to McCain. Obama could earn my support by assuaging my concerns about his foreign policy stance, targeting his tax and spending increases properly, and clarifying his health care plans--but it's an uphill battle. For the moment though, I'm listening.

Hey, you are in the majority....those who already have their mind made up. Fine. I'll choose to be in the minority that are still listening.

;)

Ultra Peanut
02-26-2008, 02:55 PM
http://i29.tinypic.com/dysz0i.gif

vailpass
02-26-2008, 04:50 PM
http://i29.tinypic.com/dysz0i.gif

"Bannable Offenses:
Word Filter Evasion
We have built in filters for some cuss words, adding spaces, # keys, etc to get around the filter. "

I'm just sayin'....

Ultra Peanut
02-26-2008, 05:02 PM
I just reported you for being a shitbird.

Coach
02-26-2008, 05:14 PM
I actually have hope. I'm still not voting for you, Mrs. Clinton.

vailpass
02-27-2008, 07:42 AM
I just reported you for being a shitbird.

I don't report anyone, was just pointing out to you that you were posting the F word coupled with a popular child's cartoon character.

I'm sure family decorum and child raising etiquette aren't at the top of your list given your chosen path away from the reproductive ranks so by all means carry on.