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Logical
03-02-2008, 05:22 PM
personal hopes for his plans?

Logical
03-02-2008, 05:23 PM
For me it is his definitve plans to remove us from Iraq.

memyselfI
03-02-2008, 06:34 PM
For me it is his definitve plans to remove us from Iraq.

Wow, you're greatest hope for him will be the biggest challenge for him. Yikes.:eek:

bkkcoh
03-02-2008, 06:37 PM
For me, it is that he doesn't get elected because of his planned spending on programs that he has stumped for. Can we really afford the amount of money that any of them are proposing in stump speeches.

Besides, government isn't supposed to be my keeper or my sisters keeper. Government shouldn't become what he wants it to become.

Jenson71
03-02-2008, 06:45 PM
Well, if he were president, I think his support domestically and internationally would be interesting to follow. I've really only lived with George W. Bush as president. Too young to know much about Clinton. I'd like to see the differences between Bush and the new president.

Of course, I'd like the Iraq War to come to a swift end.

alanm
03-02-2008, 06:56 PM
For me it is his definitve plans to remove us from Iraq.
Won't happen. If and when he's lucky enough to be elected. His hair will turn white overnight after he's briefed on whats really going down in the Middle east and why it would be a disaster to pull out. You just can't turn that area over to Iran and Syria or we'll have a real World war.

HolmeZz
03-02-2008, 06:59 PM
Won't happen. If and when he's lucky enough to be elected. His hair will turn white overnight after he's briefed on whats really going down in the Middle east and why it would be a disaster to pull out.

Because obviously you know something he doesn't.

Logical
03-02-2008, 07:00 PM
Won't happen. If and when he's lucky enough to be elected. His hair will turn white overnight after he's briefed on whats really going down in the Middle east and why it would be a disaster to pull out. You just can't turn that area over to Iran and Syria or we'll have a real World war.I hope you are wrong.

irishjayhawk
03-02-2008, 07:03 PM
I don't really have hope he'll do this (given the party's stance on it) but I really hope he withdraws from Iraq and perhaps the ME itself. And cut ties with Israel. But that's more wishful thinking than hope.

alanm
03-02-2008, 07:04 PM
Because obviously you know something he doesn't.
I can say with unequivocal certainty because of my previous employment in Fed law enforcement I know more than you.

Logical
03-02-2008, 07:06 PM
I can say with unequivocal certainty because of my previous employment in Fed law enforcement I know more than you.


I accept that, still hope you are wrong.

HolmeZz
03-02-2008, 07:07 PM
I can say with unequivocal certainty because of my previous employment in Fed law enforcement I know more than you.

We were talking about you knowing more than Obama.

And I have no idea what law enforcement has to do with anything.

wazu
03-02-2008, 07:15 PM
Getting us out of Iraq. Although he seems to have backed off of his commitments to doing this quickly, I have no doubt he would handle it more to my liking than McCain would.

alanm
03-02-2008, 07:16 PM
We were talking about you knowing more than Obama.

And I have no idea what law enforcement has to do with anything.
Of course not. It speaks of your youth and inexperience.

HolmeZz
03-02-2008, 07:18 PM
Of course not. It speaks of your youth and inexperience.

No, you'd have to expand on your credentials if you think you're adding any weight to your opinion.

You still sidestepped my point about you believing you know more than Obama does.

HolmeZz
03-02-2008, 07:19 PM
Of course not. It speaks of your youth and inexperience.

Ok, Hillary.

You'd have to expand on your credentials if you think you're adding any weight to your opinion.

You still sidestepped my point about you believing you know more than Obama does.

memyselfI
03-02-2008, 07:35 PM
Won't happen. If and when he's lucky enough to be elected. His hair will turn white overnight after he's briefed on whats really going down in the Middle east and why it would be a disaster to pull out. You just can't turn that area over to Iran and Syria or we'll have a real World war.

I agree with this. I think anyone choosing a POTUS based on this issue really needs to pull their heads out of the sand. It will not happen in the next term no matter who is the POTUS. They might remove some troops or shuffle around some deployments to make it look like they are reducing numbers. They might even stop demanding the enormous budgets that DUHbya has required in order to fund the debacle...

but in the end, the troops remain and nothing really has changed.

alanm
03-02-2008, 07:36 PM
Ok, Hillary.

You'd have to expand on your credentials if you think you're adding any weight to your opinion.

You still sidestepped my point about you believing you know more than Obama does.
Unless Obama is on the Senate Intelligence committee which I don't believe he is, that would still put me one up on him IMO.

SBK
03-02-2008, 07:38 PM
Absolutely nothing.

HolmeZz
03-02-2008, 07:50 PM
I agree with this. I think anyone choosing a POTUS based on this issue really needs to pull their heads out of the sand.

Hilarious. Here's you and Banyon discussing your support of Chuck Hagel:

So, you're comfortable with someone who would do things 95 percent the same as Bush except Iraq?

Yes

memyselfI
03-02-2008, 08:07 PM
Hilarious. Here's you and Banyon discussing your support of Chuck Hagel:

Yeah, a year ago I was under the illusion that the Dems were serious about ending the war. Now, I know better. They will say anything to get elected but will do nothing much different because they don't want the consequences of a bad aftermath on their watch.

And since absolutely nothing has changed since last year, save for the situation becoming more 'stable' with MORE TROOPS, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out how the next POTUS will address the situation when confronted with the reality of it. I think DUHbya has seen to it that the next POTUS will have to maintain the status quo or the whole thing will collapse.

SBK
03-02-2008, 08:16 PM
Yeah, a year ago I was under the illusion that the Dems were serious about ending the war. Now, I know better. They will say anything to get elected but will do nothing much different because they don't want the consequences of a bad aftermath on their watch.



Be careful, you're starting to sound like republicans.

a1na2
03-02-2008, 08:17 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by alanm http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4612018#post4612018)
I can say with unequivocal certainty because of my previous employment in Fed law enforcement I know more than you.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I accept that, still hope you are wrong.

That's quite amazing considering there are many people that have said similar things and you blow them off in a heartbeat.

1. We will not be able to withdraw in the time frame that most of you seem to want. The part of that wish that disturbs me the most is that you care not for the future of the region nor for the world should that happen.

2. Should we withdraw you will open up our borders for future attacks from those that have declared jihad on the U.S.

memyselfI
03-02-2008, 08:28 PM
Be careful, you're starting to sound like republicans.

An unintended consequence, believe me. I'm just trying to be realistic about the situation here. I actually think that is probably why Al Gore didn't get in the race. He knew that would be a big ole albatross on whichever DEM got into office and will be the issue that sinks them because they've promised to fix the situation when it's really not one that can be fixed with any real certainty.

Logical
03-02-2008, 08:44 PM
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;">Originally Posted by alanm http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4612018#post4612018)
I can say with unequivocal certainty because of my previous employment in Fed law enforcement I know more than you.
</td></tr></tbody></table>



That's quite amazing considering there are many people that have said similar things and you blow them off in a heartbeat.

1. We will not be able to withdraw in the time frame that most of you seem to want. The part of that wish that disturbs me the most is that you care not for the future of the region nor for the world should that happen.

2. Should we withdraw you will open up our borders for future attacks from those that have declared jihad on the U.S.
The fact that I routinely blow you off, is likely because you are a blowhard. As to not caring about the region, I would say they need to be responsible for themselves, that we are not the world's babysitter.

Mr. Laz
03-02-2008, 09:38 PM
wants to stop special interest groups from buying votes
wants to get out of Iraq
believes a tolerant social government attitude
seems like an honest upfront person

btw - mccain has a few of those same things .... he's lost his freakin mind about Iraq but he's alright.

HolmeZz
03-02-2008, 10:02 PM
Yeah, a year ago I was under the illusion that the Dems were serious about ending the war. Now, I know better. They will say anything to get elected but will do nothing much different because they don't want the consequences of a bad aftermath on their watch.

You weren't talking about Democrats. You were talking about Chuck Hagel.

jawaba2k
03-02-2008, 10:04 PM
: )

Frazod
03-02-2008, 10:18 PM
My best friend will be leaving for his second deployment in Iraq in July. I don't want there to be a third.

Obama's got my vote. I've already voted for him once for the Senate.

SBK
03-02-2008, 10:30 PM
An unintended consequence, believe me. I'm just trying to be realistic about the situation here. I actually think that is probably why Al Gore didn't get in the race. He knew that would be a big ole albatross on whichever DEM got into office and will be the issue that sinks them because they've promised to fix the situation when it's really not one that can be fixed with any real certainty.

Truthfully this election is all about how much socialism you want. If you lean to the status quo for our socialism we already have McCain is your guy, if you would prefer more of a USSR / Cuba style Obama is your guy.

Iraq will have the same outcome either way--meaning we'll remain there.

Logical
03-02-2008, 11:13 PM
Truthfully this election is all about how much socialism you want. If you lean to the status quo for our socialism we already have McCain is your guy, if you would prefer more of a USSR / Cuba style Obama is your guy.

Iraq will have the same outcome either way--meaning we'll remain there.I would bet you are wrong about that, but we will never know either way.

ClevelandBronco
03-02-2008, 11:32 PM
I'd have to say that there's nothing in his message that speaks to my personal hope for his plans, since I hope his plans suffer a whimpering death at the DNC.

That's not a prediction. It's just...well, call it a personal hope.

ClevelandBronco
03-02-2008, 11:34 PM
Actually, a screaming, rioting, party-fracturing death for his plans would be better than a whimpering death for them.

memyselfI
03-03-2008, 05:30 AM
You weren't talking about Democrats. You were talking about Chuck Hagel.

Because Chuck Hagel was leading the way in talk of how repugnant the war had become as a CON knowing full well the implications of his stance. Even he's been muzzled over the past year which leads me to believe even he wouldn't be able to end the war any time soon.

tiptap
03-03-2008, 06:40 AM
I like the notion that there can be no choice about Iraq. That there is no chance that a fresh face in the White House would itself go along way to recruiting help with a transition in Iraq. We are talking about a Cowboy style of my way or get out of the way diplomacy that has chased away any options for cooperation in nation building. As opposed to understanding we are better served by listening and finding consensus. But if you keep listening to those who think they they are the only adults around because they get a bigger view of the seedy side of the enemy and that feeds their views, then you only get a very narrow expectation of what is possible.

Baby Lee
03-03-2008, 06:42 AM
I accept that, still hope you are wrong.

What exactly to you mean?
That you hope that the picture isn't as bad as alanm says, or you admit that it's bad as he says but you hope Obama withdraws anyway?

patteeu
03-03-2008, 06:43 AM
Personally, I'm engrossed by his commitment to use public financing for the general election if the Republican candidate agrees to do so.

patteeu
03-03-2008, 06:50 AM
Actually, a screaming, rioting, party-fracturing death for his plans would be better than a whimpering death for them.

LMAO You're a visionary.

HolmeZz
03-03-2008, 09:21 AM
Personally, I'm engrossed by his commitment to use public financing for the general election if the Republican candidate agrees to do so.

Yes, you looked the other way when it came to Romney pandering and changing all his views to get elected for the Republican nomination, but Obama deciding he's going to use another means to fund his campaign(which effects you not one bit) is just too much for you to deal with.

The irony is McCain's the one who tried to cheat the system and that's why he can only take public for the General.

Chiefnj2
03-03-2008, 09:25 AM
"So what in Obama's message speaks to your personal hopes for his plans?"

A: He isn't McCain.

Cochise
03-03-2008, 09:26 AM
because we're not red states or blue states but the united states. and because yes we can.

patteeu
03-03-2008, 09:35 AM
Yes, you looked the other way when it came to Romney pandering and changing all his views to get elected for the Republican nomination, but Obama deciding he's going to use another means to fund his campaign(which effects you not one bit) is just too much for you to deal with.

The irony is McCain's the one who tried to cheat the system and that's why he can only take public for the General.

I don't really know of too many Romney reversals that he didn't adequately explain (his evolved stance on pro-life issues being at the fore-front). I can't think of a single promise that he made during the campaign that he blatantly flip flopped on during the course of the campaign. Can you? The only thing I can remember him doing was pandering to out-of-work Michiganers by telling them he'd somehow reclaim their jobs, but (a) I said it sounded like pandering at the time, (b) it's not really a flip flop afaict, and (c) it's so unspecific that it can't be compared to this Obama flip flop.

BTW, you were intensely critical of Romney for supposed flip flops, but you look the other way when Obama reverses himself on a clear promise (that was supposedly based on principle) for reasons of crass political expedience.

Oh, and ftr, I'm more of a big picture kind of guy who is looking out for the interests of the country rather than supporting one candidate over another on the basis of things they do that affect me. :)

HolmeZz
03-03-2008, 09:46 AM
I don't really know of too many Romney reversals that he didn't adequately explain (his evolved stance on pro-life issues being at the fore-front). I can't think of a single promise that he made during the campaign that he blatantly flip flopped on during the course of the campaign. Can you?

He flipped on abortion, gay rights, stem cell research, gun rights, and Ronald friggin' Reagan, just to name a few.

The gays have gone more in depth:

http://online.logcabin.org/mitt-romneys-flip-flops.html

BTW, you were intensely critical of Romney for supposed flip flops, but you look the other way when Obama reverses himself on a promise that was supposedly based on principle for reasons of crass political expedience.

Romney's flip flops were intentional and for the purpose of pandering for votes that he could never get if he ran on the same stances he had when running in Massachusetts. Obama's decision on public financing(which hasn't even been made yet) is purely strategical and is not some method of deceiving voters. It's not political or relevant to the lives of anybody.

patteeu
03-03-2008, 10:03 AM
He flipped on abortion, gay rights, stem cell research, gun rights, and Ronald friggin' Reagan, just to name a few.

The gays have gone more in depth:

http://online.logcabin.org/mitt-romneys-flip-flops.html

Like I said, I can't think of a single promise that he made during the campaign that he blatantly flip flopped on during the course of the campaign.

Romney's flip flops were intentional and for the purpose of pandering for votes that he could never get if he ran on the same stances he had when running in Massachusetts. Obama's decision on public financing(which hasn't even been made yet) is purely strategical and is not some method of deceiving voters. It's not political or relevant to the lives of anybody.

Romney came to the race, announced who he was and took some principled stands which he never changed. Obama, a champion of public financing, made a commitment to live within the public financing system (as long as it didn't put him at a disadvantage to a Republican who opted out), but now that he believes he can gain a political advantage by opting out, he flip flops. And you don't care.

HolmeZz
03-03-2008, 10:04 AM
Like I said, I can't think of a single promise that he made during the campaign that he blatantly flip flopped on during the course of the campaign.

I applaud your ability to spin at a time like this.

HolmeZz
03-03-2008, 10:07 AM
Like I said, I can't think of a single promise that he made during the campaign that he blatantly flip flopped on during the course of the campaign.

I applaud your ability to spin at a time like this.

And by a time like this, I mean after your favorite candidate's been blatantly exposed as a fraud.

patteeu
03-03-2008, 10:15 AM
I applaud your ability to spin at a time like this.

And by a time like this, I mean after your favorite candidate's been blatantly exposed as a fraud.

LMAO Speaking of being exposed as a fraud, which side of Obama's mouth is your favorite?

Iowanian
03-03-2008, 10:20 AM
It screams "turn your bullshit filter onto the "high" setting.

StcChief
03-03-2008, 10:27 AM
hide your wallet.

HolmeZz
03-03-2008, 10:28 AM
LMAO Speaking of being exposed as a fraud, which side of Obama's mouth is your favorite?

Where's Obama been exposed as a 'fraud'?

Iowanian
03-03-2008, 10:29 AM
"Bullshitometer is pegged, reduce RPM's before permanent engine damage occurs"

patteeu
03-03-2008, 10:32 AM
Where's Obama been exposed as a 'fraud'?

He seems to be on the verge of admitting, if he hasn't already done so, that his supposedly principled stand in favor of public financing was fraudulent. Even though you don't seem to care about it. For starters.

Mr. Kotter
03-03-2008, 10:34 AM
He seems to be on the verge of admitting, if he hasn't already done so, that his supposedly principled stand in favor of public financing was fraudulent. Even though you don't seem to care about it.
I agree with you on this one. If he didn't intend to keep this pledge, he should have kept his mouth shut.

OTOH, McCain seems to have similar issues.....regarding the "loan" he took out back in November.

Cochise
03-03-2008, 10:35 AM
He seems to be on the verge of admitting, if he hasn't already done so, that his supposedly principled stand in favor of public financing was fraudulent. Even though you don't seem to care about it. For starters.

This seems like a good bet at the time it's made. Say you'll do it if the other guy does, assuming he won't. Then you get credit for saying it without actually having to do it. It's a great play as long as nobody calls the bluff.

StcChief
03-03-2008, 10:38 AM
He seems to be on the verge of admitting, if he hasn't already done so, that his supposedly principled stand in favor of public financing was fraudulent. Even though you don't seem to care about it. For starters.
blinded by his great speaking ability. :rolleyes: WITHOUT SUBSTANCE.

If he's the Dem nomonee This will become an vote by age/race despite what people think. The moderates swing will be the real factor. Obama is too far left.

HolmeZz
03-03-2008, 10:47 AM
He seems to be on the verge of admitting, if he hasn't already done so, that his supposedly principled stand in favor of public financing was fraudulent. Even though you don't seem to care about it. For starters.

It is funny to watch you attempt to build up some survey from last year as a 'principled stance' or some pledge to the American people. You want something that you can latch on to to use as a way to attack his character, but you're flailing. How he funds his campaign is not a political issue. It's not an issue that effects the general public. It made sense to want public financing back then. Now it doesn't. It wasn't some planned scheme of deception.

What's ironic is if you clicked that link I posted, Romney was the one who flip-flopped on campaign financing as a political issue. But apparently anything Romney said before his Presidential run doesn't count because you said so. LMAO

I agree with you on this one. If he didn't intend to keep this pledge, he should have kept his mouth shut.

He obviously thought that was what he'd do at the time or he wouldn't have said it. There'd be no reason to say it if he didn't. His stance doesn't gain him votes or anything. It just had to do with strategy for a potential GE. Then it made sense to take public financing. Now it doesn't. This was way before he realized he had the ability to fundraise like he has.

Iowanian
03-03-2008, 10:50 AM
"words words, pretty words....words words words" [/no content]

Logical
03-03-2008, 10:55 AM
What exactly to you mean?
That you hope that the picture isn't as bad as alanm says, or you admit that it's bad as he says but you hope Obama withdraws anyway?


I hope Obama withdraws out of Iraq, not the region. He will need to stay in Afghanistan and possibly Pakistan with only a minor presence in Iraq.

StcChief
03-03-2008, 10:56 AM
"words words, pretty words....words words words" [/no content]
he's a "silver tongued devil" no doubt

"He's a prophet, he's a pusher... partly truth and partly fiction... a walking contradiction"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silver_Tongued_Devil_and_I

Iowanian
03-03-2008, 11:48 AM
he's a joker, He's a smoker....he's a miiiiiiiidnight toker


He reminds me of a street musician. Instead of waving his hand to distract me, he's trying to use MLK's cadences, while he's using the other hand to grab my wallet...

MurphDog
03-03-2008, 12:06 PM
For me it is his definitve plans to remove us from Iraq.

We will more than likely always have a presence in Iraq

For me its HOPE that some of you will see through his pandering and wake up...

alanm
03-03-2008, 12:34 PM
he's a "silver tongued devil" no doubt

"He's a prophet, he's a pusher... partly truth and partly fiction... a walking contradiction"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silver_Tongued_Devil_and_I
You know it's possible he could be the anti Christ. :D

StcChief
03-03-2008, 12:39 PM
You know it's possible he could be the anti Christ. :D I heard he had his 666 tat removed. I didn't realize he was from Eastern Europe?