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booger
03-04-2008, 12:21 AM
Chiefs not making much noise in free agency
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star


If you blinked over the last few days, you might have missed the sum of the Chiefs’ activity in free agency.

Coach Herm Edwards indicated Monday the Chiefs could well be finished signing players. If so, that would leave former Atlanta linebacker Demorrio Williams as the entire free-agent haul for a 4-12 team that lost its final nine games and has desperate needs at cornerback, wide receiver and several offensive-line positions.

“If we don’t get anybody else, that’s OK,” Edwards said. “What I don’t want to do is go out and get a guy, any guy, just so people think, ‘Well, they got somebody, so they must be doing a good job in free agency.’ No, that’s not what we’re going to do. If that guy can’t help us win and he doesn’t fit what we’re doing, we will not bring him in here. That would be a waste of our time and a waste of his time.

“That’s what’s great about our attitude now. There are certain guys we’d like to have, and we’ll try to get them in for a visit and we’ll try to sign them. If you don’t get them, you don’t (necessarily) bring in somebody else. You don’t need to. That’s why they have the draft.

“I believe in the draft. Free agency is great, but for what we’re trying to do, we’ve got to draft our football team. To me, I’m more excited about the draft. We’re going to pick guys we feel can come in here and start. That’s not a bad thing for us. That’s a good thing for us. We’re trying to build for the long haul, and we’re trying to build with youth. We’re trying to keep this team together for a long time.”

Edwards said the Chiefs had no free-agent visitors Monday and no visits scheduled for later in the week. They have three vacancies on their starting offensive line, at least one at cornerback and one at wide receiver, and Edwards said the Chiefs would load up at all three positions in the draft.

“There are a lot of good offensive linemen in the draft,” he said. “We’ve got 10 picks and we’re evaluating the guys who would be a good fit in our system, and we’ll get some good offensive linemen.

“There are enough good cornerbacks available in the draft that we’re going to get some good ones. There’s an abundance of good corners in the second or third round. The draft is heavy at all of those positions.”

In addition to signing Williams, the Chiefs met with Buffalo tight end Michael Gaines, who instead signed with the Detroit Lions. They planned to visit this week with Dallas cornerback Jacques Reeves, but he joined the Houston Texans.

The Chiefs never even got that far with their two top free-agent priorities: former New Orleans center Jeff Faine and former Seattle kicker Josh Brown. Neither agreed to meet with the Chiefs before signing elsewhere, Faine with Tampa Bay and Brown with St. Louis.

Edwards defended that failure, indicating the Chiefs didn’t believe Faine was worth the kind of money he was paid by the Buccaneers. He also said Brown preferred to kick in the controlled atmosphere of the Rams’ dome rather than in Arrowhead Stadium’s unpredictable conditions.

“You know when you go into free agency that you aren’t going to get them all,” Edwards said. “You wish you would have gotten another guy or two. But we didn’t. In the end, does it make you better if you had gotten those guys? Maybe a little bit. The way we’re approaching it, we’re going to be OK if we didn’t get anybody in free agency.”

The Chiefs plan to use Williams as a starter at one outside linebacker position, with Donnie Edwards moving to the middle. Derrick Johnson would keep his starting spot, with middle linebacker Napoleon Harris moving to the bench.

Edwards indicated that plan could change.

“(Williams has) played both spots on the outside, and Donnie’s played in the middle and on the outside,” Edwards said. “So we’re going to create competition, and the best three guys are going to play.

“He’s been a starter, played a lot of football in a short career already, plus he’s the kind of guy that fits our system. So I think it’s a good get for us. He creates competition. He’s young and athletic and plays well on special teams.

“Now, in the draft, we don’t have to worry about getting a linebacker. Even if we draft another young guy, he won’t have the experience. This guy has experience, so we’ve got four linebackers with experience now.”

Edwards said the Chiefs would not release Harris, who was signed as a free agent last year.

“But he’s got to play better,” Edwards said. “He knows that.”

•The Chiefs were awarded fullback Oliver Hoyte off waivers from Dallas. Hoyte made 15 starts over the past two seasons for the Cowboys. Hoyte was a linebacker in college at North Carolina State.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/515739.html

doomy3
03-04-2008, 12:22 AM
I like Herm's approach to this.

Chiefs_5627
03-04-2008, 12:24 AM
I like Herm's approach to this.

Me 2.

Rausch
03-04-2008, 12:25 AM
First time I've seen an emphasis on Herm wanting O lineman. Not that now is a good time to say so.

****. Probably means a smokescreen.

Direckshun
03-04-2008, 12:27 AM
I agree.

There's maybe one or two players the entire offseason that I've liked for the Chiefs that didn't sign for something more than they were worth, and DeMorrio Williams was one of them.

I love the way Herm's putting this team together. It's slow, to be sure, but it's steady.

Now if we can just put the youth on the ****ing field.

the Talking Can
03-04-2008, 12:27 AM
“What I don’t want to do is go out and get a guy, any guy, just so people think, ‘Well, they got somebody, so they must be doing a good job in free agency.’


"Edwards defended that failure, indicating the Chiefs didn’t believe Faine was worth the kind of money he was paid by the Buccaneers."


the only two smart things Herm has ever said

Tribal Warfare
03-04-2008, 12:27 AM
First time I've seen an emphasis on Herm wanting O lineman. Not that now is a good time to say so.

****. Probably means a smokescreen.


to me I believe he's saying that the BPAs in later rounds coud/will be OL

Rausch
03-04-2008, 12:30 AM
to me I believe he's saying that the BPAs in later rounds coud/will be OL

Sounds good to me.

I'd love to see a 2nd-3rd or 3rd-4th type approach to the line. There damned well is depth in this draft on the line. All the more reason why I'd love a trade down...

Tribal Warfare
03-04-2008, 12:34 AM
. All the more reason why I'd love a trade down...


Excluding the #5 pick of course due to possibility of landing Dorsey,Ellis, or Gholston.

Mecca
03-04-2008, 12:51 AM
This team is taking a DT first it becomes more apparent to me every day.

Chiefs_5627
03-04-2008, 12:56 AM
This team is taking a DT first it becomes more apparent to me every day.

Perhaps but everyone is freaking out about Dorsey and Ellis will be long gone imo.

RedThat
03-04-2008, 01:25 AM
This team is taking a DT first it becomes more apparent to me every day.

I agree with you on that.

Question, how do you mock the top 5 picks?

Miami, since Parcells is there are they running a 3-4? If so, Dorsey wouldn't make sense to go there. Maybe Gholston?

Do you think the Rams will draft Jake Long? Pace is getting old and always banged up most of the time. They could use defensive line help too though. I hope they don't take Dorsey.

I think Atlanta will take Matt Ryan since he is the best quarterback in the draft, that, and the fact they don't have a QB.

I think the Raiders will take either McFadden or Chris Long? Chris Long prolly because his father played there?

That leaves the Chiefs with Dorsey or Ellis. Of course I won't lie to you, and I hope it falls like this. And the Chiefs take Dorsey.

Tribal Warfare
03-04-2008, 01:45 AM
Do you think the Rams will draft Jake Long? Pace is getting old and always banged up most of the time. They could use defensive line help too though. I hope they don't take Dorsey.





The Rams would value Ellis more since they are running a 3-4 too

Tribal Warfare
03-04-2008, 01:51 AM
Perhaps but everyone is freaking out about Dorsey and Ellis will be long gone imo.



this how I see the top 5 panning out

Miami- Chris Long

STL- Jake Long

Atlanta- Ryan

Oakland- McFadden

KC- Dorsey ( gets the edge over Ellis because of his leadership intangibles)

Mr. Flopnuts
03-04-2008, 04:17 AM
I would absolutely LOVE to see Dorsey and Tank Tyler as the meat in the Hali/Allen sandwich.

CupidStunt
03-04-2008, 05:28 AM
I see Chris and Jake Long going in the first four picks, and at LEAST one of McFadden, Gholston and Ryan, meaning KC will have the opportunity to draft at least one of Dorsey or Ellis.

I honestly think they'll take it, which makes me happy.

cookster50
03-04-2008, 06:32 AM
I would absolutely LOVE to see Dorsey and Tank Tyler as the meat in the Hali/Allen sandwich.

That's just wrong.

cookster50
03-04-2008, 06:33 AM
“If we don’t get anybody else, that’s OK,” Edwards said. “What I don’t want to do is go out and get a guy, any guy, just so people think, ‘Well, they got somebody, so they must be doing a good job in free agency.’ No, that’s not what we’re going to do. If that guy can’t help us win and he doesn’t fit what we’re doing, we will not bring him in here. That would be a waste of our time and a waste of his time.

Someone needs to tell Herm that there is no way any Chief fan will ever say the Chiefs are doing a good job in free agency, it just never happens.

nychief
03-04-2008, 06:57 AM
My problem is that there were players we liked - but our front office wasn't aggressive enough to even get them in town.


HORSE SHIT.

I am really glad that Herm is excited about the 6 picks we have in the last three rnds. We are going to lose for the next 5 years.

Mecca
03-04-2008, 07:07 AM
Rebuilding usually involves a couple bad years...

Warrior5
03-04-2008, 07:09 AM
I think Jake Scott is still available...

Do the Chiefs have him scheduled for a visit, or does Scott simply not fit in their scheme?

HemiEd
03-04-2008, 07:21 AM
Rebuilding usually involves a couple bad decades...

fyp

nychief
03-04-2008, 07:26 AM
no shit. but does this really seem like they have a plan? Herm honestly thinks he is a good enough talent evaluator to grab perhaps 5 starters out of this draft? The guys specialty is defense and Turk and Tank were overmatched. On Oline? Please. We should just put a tackling dummy under center...honestly. How can you say that you firmly believe that Brodie is the QBOF and then not make a strong effort to get him a supporting cast. He doesn't have a good QB coach, he doesn't have an OLine. He is going to be ruined before we get this this turned around...plain and simple.

Hoover
03-04-2008, 07:34 AM
After reading this I think our biggest FA needs are WR and OG. Both positions have plenty of talent still out there. When you look at the depth chart I think Herm likes his young CBs, so by signing a FA he would have to part with one eventually. So instead he will focus on the draft. As for OT there just are no good ones to sign.

Stryker
03-04-2008, 07:49 AM
this how I see the top 5 panning out

Miami- Chris Long

STL- Jake Long

Atlanta- Ryan

Oakland- McFadden

KC- Dorsey ( gets the edge over Ellis because of his leadership intangibles)

and if Miami where to take V. Ghloston with the 1st pick instead? Do you think STL would still take Jake Long or Chris Long instead? Then would OAK take Chris Long if STL didn't or stay with McFadden?

Mecca
03-04-2008, 07:49 AM
fyp

You're one of those guys that think rebuilding means we'll return to the time before Carl too....so what's that say?

old_geezer
03-04-2008, 08:21 AM
The only thing that scares me right now is it looks like the Chiefs are counting on drafting an O-lineman in the first round. Unless Jake Long is available to us at #5 we're screwed. There is no way we can repair our O-line this year if we don't sign any free agents and take Dorsey or Ellis in the 1st.(IMO of course)

siberian khatru
03-04-2008, 08:22 AM
I'm disappointed to see no mention of Bryant Johnson.

oldandslow
03-04-2008, 08:44 AM
Exteme anything is usually the wrong way to go...

What we need is a mix of young FA and the draft. Honestly, there is no guarantee that picking at the top of the draft makes you any better. I can offer several cases to prove my point. Detroit, AZ, etc.

Picking up a Bryant Johnson would not kill the draft and it would help Bowe and Croyle.

Herm's tunnel vision is, to me, terrifying.

TEX
03-04-2008, 08:50 AM
“If we don’t get anybody else, that’s OK,” Edwards said. “What I don’t want to do is go out and get a guy, any guy, just so people think, ‘Well, they got somebody, so they must be doing a good job in free agency.’ No, that’s not what we’re going to do. If that guy can’t help us win and he doesn’t fit what we’re doing, we will not bring him in here. That would be a waste of our time and a waste of his time.

Herm, the Chiefs should have done that when selecting a HC...

Fish
03-04-2008, 09:01 AM
“If we don’t get anybody else, that’s OK,” Edwards said. “What I don’t want to do is go out and get a guy, any guy, just so people think, ‘Well, they got somebody, so they must be doing a good job in free agency.’ No, that’s not what we’re going to do. If that guy can’t help us win and he doesn’t fit what we’re doing, we will not bring him in here. That would be a waste of our time and a waste of his time.

“That’s what’s great about our attitude now. There are certain guys we’d like to have, and we’ll try to get them in for a visit and we’ll try to sign them. If you don’t get them, you don’t (necessarily) bring in somebody else. You don’t need to. That’s why they have the draft.

“I believe in the draft. Free agency is great, but for what we’re trying to do, we’ve got to draft our football team. To me, I’m more excited about the draft. We’re going to pick guys we feel can come in here and start. That’s not a bad thing for us. That’s a good thing for us. We’re trying to build for the long haul, and we’re trying to build with youth. We’re trying to keep this team together for a long time.”

“There are enough good cornerbacks available in the draft that we’re going to get some good ones. There’s an abundance of good corners in the second or third round. The draft is heavy at all of those positions.”


“You know when you go into free agency that you aren’t going to get them all,” Edwards said. “You wish you would have gotten another guy or two. But we didn’t. In the end, does it make you better if you had gotten those guys? Maybe a little bit. The way we’re approaching it, we’re going to be OK if we didn’t get anybody in free agency.”

Thank you Herm.... for reiterating exactly what some people on this board have been trying to convey.

Let's build this ****ing team back up!

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 09:02 AM
to me I believe he's saying that the BPAs in later rounds coud/will be OL

It's virtually guaranteed. This is one of the deepest OT drafts I can remember.

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 09:06 AM
Turk and Tank overmatched? As rookies? It's the end of the world! And there's no hope to rebuild our line if we don't draft Jake Long?

Just when you think the Planet has gone the distance...

BigChiefFan
03-04-2008, 09:11 AM
Alot of people sure are putting all their eggs in Herm's basket. This is the guy that took Pollard in the 2nd round. I don't see us getting out of the cellar for a very long time. I like the aproach, but I have little faith in those taking this approach.

gblowfish
03-04-2008, 09:22 AM
Look for another 4 or 5 win season. The front office is focused on stadium renovation right now. They'll eat three years of suck to have a decent team when the stadium is done. That way they can make a killing on higher priced tickets. I also predict at least one local KC TV blackout in 2008.

Brock
03-04-2008, 09:23 AM
I also predict at least one local KC TV blackout in 2008.

Are you joking? One?

BigChiefFan
03-04-2008, 09:23 AM
If you know what you need and players fill those needs, why do they have to come from the draft? I'm getting a little sick of the company line.

Fish
03-04-2008, 09:24 AM
Alot of people sure are putting all their eggs in Herm's basket. This is the guy that took Pollard in the 2nd round. I don't see us getting out of the cellar for a very long time. I like the aproach, but I have little faith in those taking this approach.

You're not alone. But at least we're attempting what needs to be done. At least we're finally admitting it and making an effort. That's the best hope we've seen in many many years of "mediocrity modus operandi" with this team.

Herm ain't no genious, but he's at least leading us in the right direction.

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 09:29 AM
Alot of people sure are putting all their eggs in Herm's basket. This is the guy that took Pollard in the 2nd round. I don't see us getting out of the cellar for a very long time. I like the aproach, but I have little faith in those taking this approach.

Pollard was a 2nd-round value on alot of boards.

BigChiefFan
03-04-2008, 09:32 AM
Pollard was a 2nd-round value on alot of boards.

Not on mine. He certainly hasn't played like it, unless your used to Chiefs 2nd rounders. He looks like a bust to me. His coverage skills are awful, not what you want in a safety.

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 09:38 AM
Pollard was a 2nd-round value on alot of boards.

And he's started ONE full year.

Why are people so quick to give up on him?

Like it or not, the kid has another year or two at least to prove himself.

BigChiefFan
03-04-2008, 09:42 AM
And he's started ONE full year.

Why are people so quick to give up on him?

Like it or not, the kid has another year or two at least to prove himself.
A full year should show us whether or not we can count on Pollard or not. I certainly wouldn't annoit him starter, without some competition. Sure, he could improve, but so far, it looks as though we have a bust on our hands. His coverage skills are terrible, I don't see how he's going to become stellar in 12 months time. I just don't see it, but I'd gladly be happy to be wrong about him.

stonedstooge
03-04-2008, 09:42 AM
I'm glad to see Herm has enough faith in his evaluation of talent that we are going to get all these starters out of the draft. Out of 10 picks how many do you think will be good enough right off the bat to start? Apparently at least 3 OL are going to be. I agree if a team uses the draft wisely it can produce some top notch players. I don't think Herm is wise enough to chose those players.

Hell many first round draft picks don't start the first year or years of their tenure with a team and we are putting all our hopes on having most of the 10 start? It just doesn't seem realistic to me. And the other spots he is going to find from free agents that didn't get drafted? I don't think he has the capability of coaching those with talent let alone those who are lacking in talent.

I think what bothers me the most is Herm's lackadasical attitude towards the whole process. Trust me, I know what I'm doing. I know you're on a 9 game losing streak that looks to continue into next year. Maybe we will get lucky and win one preseason game this year. But I don't see us winning much in the regular season.

Reerun_KC
03-04-2008, 09:43 AM
I would absolutely LOVE to see Dorsey and Tank Tyler as the meat in the Hali/Allen sandwich.
Man that is like Goatse and Hootie level of gayness right there folks...

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 09:45 AM
A full year should show us whether or not we can count on Pollard or not. I certainly wouldn't annoit him starter, without some competition. Sure, he could improve, but so far, it looks as though we have a bust on our hands. His coverage skills are terrible, I don't see how he's going to become stellar in 12 months time. I just don't see it, but I'd gladly be happy to be wrong about him.

Wow.

If the rest of the NFL made common practice of dumping players who weren't huge successes their first year starting, there wouldn't be enough players to fill each roster.

I wouldn't treat a 6th round pick like that, much less a 2nd.

Reerun_KC
03-04-2008, 09:48 AM
Herm ain't no genious, but he's at least leading us in the right direction.


Time will tell, I am still not sold on the guy or his ability to evaluate talent....

My only hope is there is enough talent that when a "real NFL GM and Coach" arrive, we have enough for them to build on...

Until then we are just paddling around like a one legged duck...

Fish
03-04-2008, 09:50 AM
Not on mine. He certainly hasn't played like it, unless your used to Chiefs 2nd rounders. He looks like a bust to me. His coverage skills are awful, not what you want in a safety.

Safety is one of the most important positions in the cover 2, along with DT. A lot of the success in the cover 2 revolves around the safety positions and the decisions they have to make in each play. Pollard wasn't a world beater, but for a guy that young in his first season as starting safety in the cover 2, you couldn't ask for much more. He's young, has lots of upside, and is a helluva contributer to special teams. 3(should have been 4) blocked punts.... which several of those were game changing plays....

The guy's got talent. Let him grow......

StcChief
03-04-2008, 09:51 AM
It seems that LT Long will be gone so a DT seems very likely at #5.

oldandslow
03-04-2008, 09:56 AM
It seems that LT Long will be gone so a DT seems very likely at #5.

Or Clady...

BigChiefFan
03-04-2008, 09:58 AM
Safety is one of the most important positions in the cover 2, along with DT. A lot of the success in the cover 2 revolves around the safety positions and the decisions they have to make in each play. Pollard wasn't a world beater, but for a guy that young in his first season as starting safety in the cover 2, you couldn't ask for much more. He's young, has lots of upside, and is a helluva contributer to special teams. 3(should have been 4) blocked punts.... which several of those were game changing plays....

The guy's got talent. Let him grow......You could absolutely ask for your safety to not get beat deep and yet he did over and over and over again. Just because he's a 2nd rounder, doesn't mean he gets a free pass. His coverage skills were awful last year and I'm going to call it like I see it. Sure he can get better, but I sure wouldn't avoid trying to improve the position. Pollard is a LIABILTY at this point-not a good thing for a starter.

Fish
03-04-2008, 10:00 AM
I'm glad to see Herm has enough faith in his evaluation of talent that we are going to get all these starters out of the draft. Out of 10 picks how many do you think will be good enough right off the bat to start? Apparently at least 3 OL are going to be. I agree if a team uses the draft wisely it can produce some top notch players. I don't think Herm is wise enough to chose those players.

Hell many first round draft picks don't start the first year or years of their tenure with a team and we are putting all our hopes on having most of the 10 start?

Ha ha.... you've obviously not watched any of the good teams around the league and focused on the Chiefs for the last decade. That absolutely is the way most teams develop their players.

It just doesn't seem realistic to me. And the other spots he is going to find from free agents that didn't get drafted? I don't think he has the capability of coaching those with talent let alone those who are lacking in talent.

I think what bothers me the most is Herm's lackadasical attitude towards the whole process. Trust me, I know what I'm doing. I know you're on a 9 game losing streak that looks to continue into next year. Maybe we will get lucky and win one preseason game this year. But I don't see us winning much in the regular season.

"lackadasical" attitude? As opposed to what? Frantically overpaying anyone and everyone in an attempt to be 8-8 again? We lost 9 games in a row, so we should immediately sign free agents to inflated contracts to get back to mediocrity again?

Know full well that we might not win much in the regular season. But will that really be the end of the world?

It's what good rebuilding teams do to get back to respectability.

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 10:00 AM
A full year should show us whether or not we can count on Pollard or not. I certainly wouldn't annoit him starter, without some competition. Sure, he could improve, but so far, it looks as though we have a bust on our hands. His coverage skills are terrible, I don't see how he's going to become stellar in 12 months time. I just don't see it, but I'd gladly be happy to be wrong about him.

Pollard showed in his very first season, on punt coverage, that he can make plays to ignite the team. No, he's not the best in coverage, but he brings something that Jarrad Page doesn't, that Tamba Hali doesn't, the DERRICK JOHNSON doesn't - ATTITUDE. To win in this league, you've got to have the attitude of a winner.

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 10:01 AM
You could absolutely ask for your safety to not get beat deep and yet he did over and over and over again. Just because he's a 2nd rounder, doesn't mean he gets a free pass. His coverage skills were awful last year and I'm going to call it like I see it. Sure he can get better, but I sure wouldn't avoid trying to improve the position. Pollard is a LIABILTY at this point-not a good thing for a starter.

Over and over again? No he most certainly did not. He didn't get beat deep anymore than Page, Law, or Surtain did.

Fish
03-04-2008, 10:06 AM
You could absolutely ask for your safety to not get beat deep and yet he did over and over and over again. Just because he's a 2nd rounder, doesn't mean he gets a free pass. His coverage skills were awful last year and I'm going to call it like I see it. Sure he can get better, but I sure wouldn't avoid trying to improve the position. Pollard is a LIABILTY at this point-not a good thing for a starter.

I'm sure lots of teams ask for their safety to not get beat deep.... and yet every safety in the league gets beat deep once in a while.

The entire team is a liability. We have a long ways to go. Giving up on a second year player in one of the most critical positions because he's not a probowler already is stupid and impatient.

Tribal Warfare
03-04-2008, 10:50 AM
and if Miami where to take V. Ghloston with the 1st pick instead? Do you think STL would still take Jake Long or Chris Long instead? Then would OAK take Chris Long if STL didn't or stay with McFadden?



I believe they'd still take Jake Long, because of the Bulger insurance policy, and knowing Al he'll take Chris Long if he's still on the board

Brock
03-04-2008, 10:52 AM
Jake's going to be off the board before KC picks. After that workout and the seasons at Michigan he's had? Bet it.

Mr. Laz
03-04-2008, 11:04 AM
It's slow, to be sure, but it's steady.

it's only steady if you draft well and you keep the good players you draft.


if you don't draft well or keep them, then you suck ....... forever.

Mr. Laz
03-04-2008, 11:05 AM
Jake's going to be off the board before KC picks. After that workout and the seasons at Michigan he's had? Bet it.

Derrick Johnson well never be there when we pick at 15.

Brock
03-04-2008, 11:12 AM
Derrick Johnson well never be there when we pick at 15.

A silly comparison.

Reerun_KC
03-04-2008, 11:23 AM
I just dont see a Franchise LT hanging around til #5....

It sucks, we need him despertaly, but no way he is there at #5.... We couldnt be lucky enough.

and if he was, would Carl go all John Tait on him? I am sure this stupid ass would cause him to hold out, etc....

bowener
03-04-2008, 02:59 PM
I would absolutely LOVE to see Dorsey and Tank Tyler as the meat in the Hali/Allen sandwich.

Oh god! I need new pants!

KCChiefsFan88
03-04-2008, 03:28 PM
Herm owes it to the fanbase to explain how he plans to fill the Chiefs gaping holes on the offensive line (where the Chiefs are going to need at least 3 new starters), WR (where their most accomplished WR just finished his rookie season) and CB (where the Chiefs have a washed up Surtain and not much else).

How do you fill all of those holes... even with 10 draft picks? And its not like the Chiefs, even if you just look at the Herm-era have had great drafts.

And remember the team's expectations, as stated publicly by Clark Hunt is to compete for a playoff spot next season.

Micjones
03-04-2008, 03:31 PM
Herm owes it to the fanbase to explain how he plans to fill the Chiefs gaping holes on the offensive line (where the Chiefs are going to need at least 3 new starters), WR (where their most accomplished WR just finished his rookie season) and CB (where the Chiefs have a washed up Surtain and not much else).

How do you fill all of those holes... even with 10 draft picks? And its not like the Chiefs, even if you just look at the Herm-era have had great drafts.

And remember the team's expectations, as stated publicly by Clark Hunt is to compete for a playoff spot next season.

The simple answer is, we can't fill all of those holes through the draft.
We need a little help from Free Agency. Hopefully we can find 3-4 quality FA's sometime between now and August.

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 03:34 PM
And remember the team's expectations, as stated publicly by Clark Hunt is to compete for a playoff spot next season.

If Clark stands by this, he makes it clear he's part of the problem.

Coogs
03-04-2008, 03:34 PM
How do you fill all of those holes... even with 10 draft picks?

You bring back Rich Scanlon! No matter what the cost is you go out and get him! :)

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 03:34 PM
Hopefully we can find 3-4 quality FA's sometime between now and August.

Finally, some sense out of you. :D

Micjones
03-04-2008, 03:37 PM
Finally, some sense out of you. :D

I've said all along that I would wait to see what the Chiefs would do.
There aren't any good options left at CB.
There are a couple at WR. And maybe 1 at Guard.

We could wait until June, but we all know the talent pool is watered down severely by then.

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 03:45 PM
I've said all along that I would wait to see what the Chiefs would do.
There aren't any good options left at CB.
There are a couple at WR. And maybe 1 at Guard.

We could wait until June, but we all know the talent pool is watered down severely by then.

I would argue there weren't really any good options to start with at CB. Seriously, Randall Gay is JUST A GUY.

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 03:56 PM
I've been hinting around about this, but I'm going to lay it out there and go on record now:

I don't think THEY see all the holes that some FANS see.

I just went to kcchiefs.com and counted 60 players on the roster.

Add 10 draft picks, plus pickup a post-June 1st cut or two, and we're right there.

Some of you guys are so hell-bent on getting back to 8-8 that you've missed what's right in front of your face:

That this team is going to play a LOT of young guys, many of which "most" of you feel either:

a) aren't any good

b) don't deserve a chance

If there were ever a year to play as many young guys as possible THIS is the year do do it. We're at rock bottom. Let's see what we have in someof these guys. Just because they were 2nd day picks or UDFA doesn't mean they can't help this team.

Plan on the following:

One of the young CB's ("Draft Pick", Patterson, Brackenridge, Barksdale, Johnson) starting alongside Surtain, and one getting a spot at nickle.

Turk and Tank getting the majority of the PT.

Any combination of the following starting on OL: Niswanger, Stallings, Taylor, "Draft pick(s)."

A draft pick will be in competition for a WR spot with Bowe, Webb and Parker.


Go back and see what San Diego did. Stayed out of the FA market, and played young guys and draft picks. Many of those picks have since developed, and San Diego has (arguably) the most talented roster in the league.

Woodrow Call
03-04-2008, 03:59 PM
Great post OnTheWarpath58. You have hit the nail on the head.

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 04:58 PM
Great post OnTheWarpath58. You have hit the nail on the head.

Just calling it as I see it.

Micjones
03-04-2008, 05:24 PM
Go back and see what San Diego did. Stayed out of the FA market, and played young guys and draft picks. Many of those picks have since developed, and San Diego has (arguably) the most talented roster in the league.

You think that's a by-product of being better at identifying talent in the draft or simply giving young guys the opportunity to play?

KCChiefsFan88
03-04-2008, 05:28 PM
A draft pick will be in competition for a WR spot with Bowe, Webb and Parker.



Samie Parker is a free agent and the Chiefs have shown no interest at this point in re-signing him. Even if they do re-sign him, why should the Chiefs think they can rely on a guy who lost his starting job last season and has shown zero ability to be a consistent WR in the NFL.

As far as Webb is concerned, he's a guy who has been in the league for a few years now and hasn't shown anything more than the ability to be a marginal slot WR.

This means that the Chiefs are essentially going to have to overhaul their WR positiion with AT least 3-4 new WRs. If the Chiefs go the draft route or the undrafted free agent route to add these WRs that means the Chiefs most experienced WR next season, assuming Parker isn't re-signed will be Jeff Webb and their most accomplished WR will be Bowe, a guy who has just finished his rookie season.

KCChiefsFan88
03-04-2008, 05:30 PM
Any combination of the following starting on OL: Niswanger, Stallings, Taylor, "Draft pick(s)."


Niswanger and Stallings have been with the Chiefs for a few years now and have they shown anything that would suggest the Chiefs can count on them to become starters?

Throw them in the Will Svitek category.

Micjones
03-04-2008, 05:37 PM
I think Niswanger's shown us more on the field than any of the other hopefuls on the Offensive Line.

I think he could very well win a starting job this off-season.
Stallings and Svitek? Not so much.

And you're right about Parker. Chances are he's done in Kansas City.
And Webb hasn't shown much to this point with opportunities to do so.

Fish
03-04-2008, 05:41 PM
If the Chiefs go the draft route or the undrafted free agent route to add these WRs that means the Chiefs most experienced WR next season, assuming Parker isn't re-signed will be Jeff Webb and their most accomplished WR will be Bowe, a guy who has just finished his rookie season.

Gee.... that would be the end of the world.... having a group of young WRs....

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 05:43 PM
You think that's a by-product of being better at identifying talent in the draft or simply giving young guys the opportunity to play?

All of the above.

It's not like they were drafting this well EVERY year.

Matter of fact, there were several years where they were average at best.

2001

LaDainian Tomlinson
Drew Brees
Tay Cody
Carlos Polk
Elliot Silvers
Zeke Moreno
Brandon Gorin
Robert Carswell

Conclusion: A whole lotta nothing after Lt and Brees.

2002

Quentin Jammer
Toniu Fonoti
Reche Caldwell
Ben Leber
Justin Peelle
Terry Charles
Matt Anderle
Seth Burford

Conclusion: Jammer hasn't lived up to expectations, and Fonoti, Caldwell, Leber and Peelle, while nothing special, saw the field.

2003

Sammy Davis
Drayton Florence
Terrance Kiel
Courtney Van Buren
Matt Wilhelm
Mike Scifres
Hanik Milligan
Andrew Pinnock

Conclusion: Yuck. Florence and Scifres turned out to be decent picks, but Davis, Kiel and Wilhelm all saw the field as well.

2004

Philip Rivers
Igor Olshansky
Nate Kaeding
Nick Hardwick
Shaun Phillips
Dave Ball
Michael Turner
Ryan Krause
Ryon Bingham
Shane Olivea
Carlos Joseph

Conclusion: JACKPOT! 8 of 11 picks became the core of the team. Why? Good players, obviously, but SD wasn't afraid to let them PLAY. Shaun Phillips in the 4th round?

2005, 2006, and 2007 pretty much boils down to them hitting on picks in rounds 1-3, but not doing much on the 2nd day.

Merriman
Castillo
V. Jackson
Cromartie
McNeill
Davis
Weddle



The difference between the Chargers and Chiefs?

They actually PLAY their draft picks (especially 1st day guys) instead of sitting them behind over-the-hill veterans.

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 05:47 PM
Niswanger and Stallings have been with the Chiefs for a few years now and have they shown anything that would suggest the Chiefs can count on them to become starters?

Throw them in the Will Svitek category.

When have they PLAYED on a regular basis to show you ANYTHING?

What SHOULD have happened late LAST year is that Weigmann, Welbourne and Terry rode the bench while these guys actually got a legitimate chance to play for 4-6 weeks.

You're basically advocating the Carl Peterson WIN NOW philosophy. **** the young guys, get a vet in here - without giving the younger guys a legit chance to show anything.

Playing one game, or 3 series ISN'T getting a chance.

Brock
03-04-2008, 05:51 PM
trade for orlando paaaaaace, that's what grampa dick would do!!

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 05:53 PM
trade for orlando paaaaaace, that's what grampa dick would do!!

No shit.

Everyone is in such a hurry to get a "name" in here so we can get back to 8-8.

How about we give the young guys we have a chance to make a name for themselves?

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 06:06 PM
As far as Webb is concerned, he's a guy who has been in the league for a few years now and hasn't shown anything more than the ability to be a marginal slot WR.

Webb has been in the league for TWO years, not a few, and his sophomore season was better than almost all of the free agent WR's being talked about here. In some cases, his season last year was equal to their first THREE OR FOUR seasons, COMBINED.

Micjones
03-04-2008, 06:16 PM
All of the above.

It's not like they were drafting this well EVERY year.

Matter of fact, there were several years where they were average at best.

2001

LaDainian Tomlinson
Drew Brees
Tay Cody
Carlos Polk
Elliot Silvers
Zeke Moreno
Brandon Gorin
Robert Carswell

Conclusion: A whole lotta nothing after Lt and Brees.

2002

Quentin Jammer
Toniu Fonoti
Reche Caldwell
Ben Leber
Justin Peelle
Terry Charles
Matt Anderle
Seth Burford

Conclusion: Jammer hasn't lived up to expectations, and Fonoti, Caldwell, Leber and Peelle, while nothing special, saw the field.

2003

Sammy Davis
Drayton Florence
Terrance Kiel
Courtney Van Buren
Matt Wilhelm
Mike Scifres
Hanik Milligan
Andrew Pinnock

Conclusion: Yuck. Florence and Scifres turned out to be decent picks, but Davis, Kiel and Wilhelm all saw the field as well.

2004

Philip Rivers
Igor Olshansky
Nate Kaeding
Nick Hardwick
Shaun Phillips
Dave Ball
Michael Turner
Ryan Krause
Ryon Bingham
Shane Olivea
Carlos Joseph

Conclusion: JACKPOT! 8 of 11 picks became the core of the team. Why? Good players, obviously, but SD wasn't afraid to let them PLAY. Shaun Phillips in the 4th round?

2005, 2006, and 2007 pretty much boils down to them hitting on picks in rounds 1-3, but not doing much on the 2nd day.

"roidman" Merriman
Castillo
V. Jackson
Cromartie
McNeill
Davis
Weddle



The difference between the Chargers and Chiefs?

They actually PLAY their draft picks (especially 1st day guys) instead of sitting them behind over-the-hill veterans.

That's a whole hell of a lot more successful than we've been.
And I think young players have gotten lots of opportunities here.
Pollard, Page, Webb, Parker, Johnson, Allen, Hali (among others)...

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 06:22 PM
That's a whole hell of a lot more successful than we've been.
And I think young players have gotten lots of opportunities here.
Pollard, Page, Webb, Parker, Johnson, Allen, Hali (among others)...

What about guys like, say, oh...

SHANE OLIVIEA?

How is he any different than our young linemen, other than the fact that he got to play?

Micjones
03-04-2008, 06:26 PM
What about guys like, say, oh...

SHANE OLIVIEA?

How is he any different than our young linemen, other than the fact that he got to play?

He's not much different.
Some of our Offensive Linemen have been given a chance to play though.
And guess what? Maybe only one of them has proven anything.

It's not just having an opportunity to play. You kinda have to play well too...

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 06:27 PM
He's not much different.
Some of our Offensive Linemen have been given a chance to play though.
And guess what? Maybe only one of them has proven anything.

It's not just having an opportunity to play. You kinda have to play well too...

I'm curious.

Who has gotten a chance to play?

I'll save you the trouble:

Stallings, Niswanger, Taylor: ZERO combined starts.

Shane Olivea: SIXTEEN starts his ROOKIE year.

Micjones
03-04-2008, 06:36 PM
I'm curious.

Who has gotten a chance to play?

I'll save you the trouble:

Stallings, Niswanger, Taylor: ZERO combined starts.

Shane Olivea: SIXTEEN starts his ROOKIE year.

Niswanger's had a chance to play.
As has Svitek.

Time on the field is valuable whether those players started or not.

Micjones
03-04-2008, 06:38 PM
I'm curious.

Who has gotten a chance to play?

I'll save you the trouble:

Stallings, Niswanger, Taylor: ZERO combined starts.

Shane Olivea: SIXTEEN starts his ROOKIE year.

Olivea would've gone on Day 1 if it hadn't been for his injury.
That wasn't as big a gamble to let him play as it seems.

Now compare where he should've gone with where our Offensive Linemen were taken...

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 06:47 PM
Niswanger's had a chance to play.
As has Svitek.

Time on the field is valuable whether those players started or not.

You obviously have no concept of how important COHESIVENESS is to an offensive line.

Getting snaps here and there isn't developing anyone.

Practicing all summer, all season - next to the same guy is ridiculously important.

Exactly why (typically) when an offensive lineman goes down in the middle of a season, the offense looks like garbage the rest of the year.

See: 2007 St. Louis Rams as a GREAT example.

ChiefsCountry
03-04-2008, 06:49 PM
Niswanger's had a chance to play.
As has Svitek.

Time on the field is valuable whether those players started or not.

Niswanger was playing well then got hurt. Svitek is dunsky but we havent seen what Stallings or Taylor are yet.

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 06:50 PM
Olivea would've gone on Day 1 if it hadn't been for his injury.
That wasn't as big a gamble to let him play as it seems.

Now compare where he should've gone with where our Offensive Linemen were taken...

One, he was at best a 3rd round pick. And I'm sorry, but a pectoral issue isn't going to drop a guy to the 7th round. He went about a round or two later than he should have.

Two, who cares if we had drafted Stallings, Niswanger or Taylor in the 3rd round?

This franchise would have left them rotting on the bench behind Weigmann, Welbourne and Turley.

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 06:52 PM
Niswanger's had a chance to play.
As has Svitek.

Time on the field is valuable whether those players started or not.

Niswanger got hurt, hardly an indictment against his skills.

And Svitek wasn't even an offensive lineman when we drafted him, he was a MAJOR project. Also, like Sampson, he was drafted by the previous regime. How many offensive linemen did they actually develop again?

Fish
03-04-2008, 06:53 PM
You obviously have no concept of how important COHESIVENESS is to an offensive line.

Getting snaps here and there isn't developing anyone.

Practicing all summer, all season - next to the same guy is ridiculously important.

Exactly why (typically) when an offensive lineman goes down in the middle of a season, the offense looks like garbage the rest of the year.

See: 2007 St. Louis Rams as a GREAT example.

I think KC 07 would make a pretty decent example of that as well. Waters missing camp, injuries, swapping positions.... those guys never had a chance to work together and form any kind of bond... Made them look worse than they were. Playing next to the same guy all season can make both guys look a little better.

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 06:57 PM
I think KC 07 would make a pretty decent example of that as well. Waters missing camp, injuries, swapping positions.... those guys never had a chance to work together and form any kind of bond... Made them look worse than they were. Playing next to the same guy all season can make both guys look a little better.

Absolutely.

I chose STL because they have a potent offense that was reduced to garbage after a few injuries.

Even more reason that it was a huge mistake not to get these guys some starts under their belt last year, instead of wasting the year - like they did with Croyle, Tank and Turk.

melbar
03-04-2008, 07:03 PM
:rolleyes:Or maybe, just maybe, we just drafted guys who werent as good as Olivea. I know crazy thought...

ChiefsCountry
03-04-2008, 07:05 PM
I bet if we had signed Fancea and Faine and Bryant Johnson, I bet 88 would have found some reason to bitch about them.

Bob Dole
03-04-2008, 07:51 PM
Webb has been in the league for TWO years, not a few, and his sophomore season was better than almost all of the free agent WR's being talked about here. In some cases, his season last year was equal to their first THREE OR FOUR seasons, COMBINED.

Don't forget how hard Joe Horn sucked.

Bob Dole sure is glad we got rid of him when we did.

htismaqe
03-04-2008, 08:10 PM
:rolleyes:Or maybe, just maybe, we just drafted guys who werent as good as Olivea. I know crazy thought...

And how would you find that out, by chance?

OnTheWarpath58
03-04-2008, 09:05 PM
And how would you find that out, by chance?

Couldn't POSSIBLY be by.......PLAYING, could it?

Olivea - 57 starts in 4 years, including SIXTEEN his rookie year.

Niswanger and Stallings - 0 starts in 2 years.

Taylor - 0 starts in 1 year.

KCChiefsFan88
03-05-2008, 12:07 AM
You're basically advocating the Carl Peterson WIN NOW philosophy. **** the young guys, get a vet in here - without giving the younger guys a legit chance to show anything.

Playing one game, or 3 series ISN'T getting a chance.

Jeff Faine turns 27 years old this April, so does Jake Scott. Both are examples of two YOUNG and PROVEN offensive linemen who are/were available via free agency who could have come in right away and solidified holes on the Chiefs offensive line for the next 7-8 years at least.

And maybe it is telling that despite the Chiefs' epic struggles at offensive line last season, guys like Niswanger, Stallings, etc. couldn't break into the Chiefs starting line-up.

You seem to advocate the idea that players should be given chances, when in fact none of the young offensive linemen the Chiefs have on their roster currently have shown anything to suggest that they can step in and become quality NFL starters. On successful NFL teams these chances are EARNED not simply given by default.

KCChiefsFan88
03-05-2008, 12:09 AM
I bet if we had signed Fancea and Faine and Bryant Johnson, I bet 88 would have found some reason to bitch about them.

I have been clear and consistent that the type of free agent I think the Chiefs should be aggressively pursuing are guys like Jeff Faine and Jake Scott. YOUNG, PROVEN guys who can come in and immediately fill gaping holes.

These aren't over the hill vets like Faneca.

OnTheWarpath58
03-05-2008, 08:10 AM
Jeff Faine turns 27 years old this April, so does Jake Scott. Both are examples of two YOUNG and PROVEN offensive linemen who are/were available via free agency who could have come in right away and solidified holes on the Chiefs offensive line for the next 7-8 years at least.

And maybe it is telling that despite the Chiefs' epic struggles at offensive line last season, guys like Niswanger, Stallings, etc. couldn't break into the Chiefs starting line-up.

You seem to advocate the idea that players should be given chances, when in fact none of the young offensive linemen the Chiefs have on their roster currently have shown anything to suggest that they can step in and become quality NFL starters. On successful NFL teams these chances are EARNED not simply given by default.


And WHY do you think that is?

For the same reason that Damon Huard started over Croyle.

For the same reason Priest Holmes played over Kolby Smith after LJ's injury.

For the same reason Tank and Turk sat on the bench while Edwards, Boone and Reed got the majority of the snaps.


THE WIN EIGHT GAMES, HALF ASS REBUILDING PHILOSOPHY OF CARL PETERSON.

htismaqe
03-05-2008, 09:25 AM
Newsflash!

Jake Scott STILL hasn't signed anywhere.

Micjones
03-05-2008, 10:53 AM
Niswanger got hurt, hardly an indictment against his skills.

Indictment?
I've done nothing but praise Niswanger.
I believe he'll become a starter in 2008.

And Svitek wasn't even an offensive lineman when we drafted him, he was a MAJOR project.

A project they've obviously been committed to.
Again, he's seen the field. He was dreadful at LT.
I think he's a better RT prospect and he'll get a shot there if McIntosh isn't moved over.

They certainly haven't given up on him.

Also, like Sampson, he was drafted by the previous regime. How many offensive linemen did they actually develop again?

Developing Offensive Linemen wasn't their priority.

Micjones
03-05-2008, 10:54 AM
Newsflash!

Jake Scott STILL hasn't signed anywhere.

Good deal.

It only takes a phonecall though htismaqe.

htismaqe
03-05-2008, 11:07 AM
Indictment?
I've done nothing but praise Niswanger.
I believe he'll become a starter in 2008.

A project they've obviously been committed to.
Again, he's seen the field. He was dreadful at LT.
I think he's a better RT prospect and he'll get a shot there if McIntosh isn't moved over.

They certainly haven't given up on him.

Developing Offensive Linemen wasn't their priority.

What's your point then?

If Niswanger is going to start, then what's the problem? Svitek sucks, plain and simple. Another failed Vermeil experiment.

And developing ANYBODY wasn't their priority.

htismaqe
03-05-2008, 11:07 AM
Good deal.

It only takes a phonecall though htismaqe.

How do you know it hasn't been made?

Micjones
03-05-2008, 11:08 AM
How do you know it hasn't been made?

I meant by another team.

He's on his way to Tennessee for a visit.
Still think we have plenty of time to get something done?
:rolleyes:

htismaqe
03-05-2008, 11:09 AM
I meant by another team.

He's on his way to Tennessee for a visit.
Still think we have plenty of time to get something done?
:rolleyes:

With Jake Scott? Maybe not.

With free agency in general? Absolutely.

Brock
03-05-2008, 11:10 AM
One or more of the parties appears uninterested.

Micjones
03-05-2008, 11:10 AM
With Jake Scott? Maybe not.

With free agency in general? Absolutely.

Please name for me a comparable Guard still available not named Scott?

htismaqe
03-05-2008, 11:11 AM
Please name for me a comparable Guard still available not named Scott?

I can't because I don't care. Haven't I said that before?

Micjones
03-05-2008, 11:18 AM
I can't because I don't care. Haven't I said that before?

Figures.

I guess that would explain dozens of posts in a thread where Free Agency is being discussed.
:shake:

Like I said to you just moments ago...
It only takes one phonecall. This idea that we have until May to identify quality Free Agents is just silly. Sure there will be players available, but to pretend that they're going to be comparable to players signed in March or April is well...crazy.

htismaqe
03-05-2008, 11:41 AM
Figures.

I guess that would explain dozens of posts in a thread where Free Agency is being discussed.
:shake:

Like I said to you just moments ago...
It only takes one phonecall. This idea that we have until May to identify quality Free Agents is just silly. Sure there will be players available, but to pretend that they're going to be comparable to players signed in March or April is well...crazy.

The dozens of posts would be because I like this place and I like to discuss such things. I care about the ISSUE.

Two types of players have been signed so far - too expensive or not talented enough. The actual WORTHWHILE free agents are few and far between.

Micjones
03-05-2008, 11:55 AM
Two types of players have been signed so far - too expensive or not talented enough.

We agree on that much.

The actual WORTHWHILE free agents are few and far between.

I'm not sure about that, but certainly we can agree that Scott is worthwhile?

htismaqe
03-05-2008, 11:58 AM
I'm not sure about that, but certainly we can agree that Scott is worthwhile?

For the sake of adding a body, yes. That's one position where anybody with a pulse would be helpful.

But I only have one demand out of acquired players, whether free agents or draftees - be better than the guy you replaced.

We've got SO MANY young players that haven't played that I can't honestly say any of these free agents are guaranteed to be an upgrade.

About the only guy I'm sure was an upgrade was Bryant Johnson.

Frosty
03-05-2008, 02:03 PM
Svitek sucks, plain and simple.

I thought Svitek was an absolute disaster at LT but thought there was a glimmer of hope for him when he moved to RT later in the season. If he could stay at that position through the off-season and camp, he might add adequate depth.

Mecca
03-05-2008, 11:11 PM
Overpaying a Guard in FA is really stupid no matter how good the guy is...it's been proven time and time again you can pull a productive starting guard out of day 2 and pay him peanuts.